Mitch Daniels

MARGARET HOOVER: MITCH DANIELS IS, TODAY, THE 12TH PRESIDENT OF PURDUE UNIVERSITY. HE WAS THE 49TH GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF INDIANA, AND THE 33RD DIRECTOR OF THE WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT & BUDGET, WHERE HE WAS DUBBED “THE BLADE” BY GEORGE W. BUSH FOR HIS RUTHLESS FISCAL CONSERVATISM. HE BROKE MANY A CONSERVATIVE HEART WHEN HE ANNOUNCED HE WASN’T RUNNING FOR THE 

REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT IN 2012.
APPLICATIONS AND ENROLLMENT AT PURDUE ARE ON THE RISE, SINCE HE ARRIVED FIVE YEARS AGO.
HE IS PUTTING HIS FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE PHILOSOPHY INTO PRACTICE BY FREEZING TUITION COSTS THROUGH 2020 AND TRYING TO TACKLE THE STUDENT DEBT CRISIS. A PROUD MOTORCYCLE ENTHUSIAST, HE OWNS AND CAN BE SEEN RIDING A DYNA LOW RIDER AND A FAT BOY, BOTH HARLEY-DAVIDSONS. THE FREEDOM OF THE OPEN ROAD, ALONG WITH PERSONAL  RESPONSIBILITY, ARE RECURRING THEMES IN HIS BOOKS, SPEECHES, AND COLUMNS. A CONSTANT COMMENTATOR ON THE STATE OF THE REPUBLIC, GOVERNOR DANIELS WONDERS WHETHER WE ARE CAPABLE OF SELF-GOVERNANCE. PERHAPS, BUT ONLY IF WE WEAR A HELMET. GOVERNOR DANIELS, WELCOME TO “FIRING LINE.”

MITCH DANIELS: THANKS, MARGARET.

MARGARET HOOVER: I’M DELIGHTED YOU’RE HERE BECAUSE YOU DEFINED MUCH OF YOUR POLITICAL CAREER FROM THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION TO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION TO YOUR TENURE AS GOVERNOR IN INDIANA BY A FISCAL CONSERVATISM THAT WE DON’T HEAR MUCH ABOUT THESE DAYS. AND, SO  I’M WONDERING IF WE COULD START BY JUST PRETENDING LIKE WE’RE IN A COMPLETE POLITICAL VOID.
AND IF POLITICS WEREN’T A REALITY, HOW YOU WOULD APPROACH CERTAIN POLICY PROBLEMS, VOID OF THE POLITICAL REALITY. SO I’D LIKE TO TAKE A COUPLE AT A TIME AND JUST GO BACK AND FORTH WITH YOU AND HEAR. IF YOU WERE TO TACKLE THE ENTITLEMENT PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY, FIRST STARTING WITH SOCIAL SECURITY, WHICH WE  ALL CONSIDER THE EASY ONE —

MITCH DANIELS: MHMM.

MARGARET HOOVER: — HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT MAKING IT SOLVENT?

MITCH DANIELS: THE WAYS TO DO IT ARE NOT TOO UH HARD TO DEFINE. UH WE OUGHT TO STOP FUNDING RICH PEOPLE. WE DON’T HAVE NEARLY ENOUGH TO GO AROUND, SO WE SHOULDN’T SEND WARREN BUFFET A — A RETIREMENT CHECK. WE OUGHT TO RAISE THE RETIREMENT AGE IN SOME GRADUAL WAY. UH WE ALL –WE LIVE SO MUCH LONGER NOW THAN WE DID WHEN THE SYSTEM WAS SET UP, AND THE AGE HAS ONLY BEEN RAISED VERY SLIGHTLY

SO THOSE ARE THE FIRST STEPS YOU OUGHTA TAKE, AND IF YOU TOOK SOME COMBINATION OF THOSE YOU COULD GET THAT– THE TRUST –, THE FUND WOULD BE TRUSTWORTHY ONCE AGAIN.

MARGARET HOOVER: WHAT WE ALSO KNOW IS THAT THE BIGGEST DRIVERS ARE OUR DEBT IS HEALTH CARE SPENDING.
SO IF YOUR WERE TO TACKLE MEDICARE AND MEDICAID, AGAIN, ASIDE FROM THE POLITICAL REALITIES, WHAT IS YOUR IDEAL, SORT OF, SET OF SOLUTIONS?

MITCH DANIELS: WE WILL NEVER HAVE COST CONTROL IN HEALTH CARE UNTIL EVERYBODY IS A COST CONTROLLER. WE’RE ALL HUMAN — WE WILL ALWAYS CONSUME UM MORE THAN WE MIGHT OTHERWISE IF WE WERE MAKING THE DECISIONS. SO UH YOU WOULD GO, AS UH QUICKLY AND AS FULLY AS POSSIBLE TO A SYSTEM IN WHICH EVERYONE IS PROTECTED IN TRUE INSURANCE FASHION AGAINST RUINOUS OR UM CATASTROPHIC EXPENSES, BUT PEOPLE PAY THEIR OWN BILLS. AND YOU HELP LOW-INCOME PEOPLE, UH, NOT EVERYONE AS WE DO TODAY. YOU COULDN’T HAVE DESIGNED — IF YOU SET OUT TO DESIGN A SYSTEM THAT COST TOO MUCH, IT’D LOOK PRETTY MUCH LIKE OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM DOES TODAY

MARGARET HOOVER:  HOW ABOUT THE NATIONAL DEBT.
HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT SOLVING THIS?

MITCH DANIELS: HOW ABOUT THAT NATIONAL DEBT.

MARGARET HOOVER: HOW ABOUT THAT NATIONAL DEBT — 

MITCH DANIELS: — A PESKY LITTLE PROBLEM — 

MARGARET HOOVER:  — $21 TRILLION DOLLARS —

MITCH DANIELS: YEAH. NO, IT IS — IT IS UM — UH — AN ENORMOUS DEFAULT OF RESPONSIBILITY BY BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES. YOU KNOW NO ENTITY, PUBLIC, PRIVATE OR OTHERWISE, CAN STAY SELF-UH-GOVERNING, UM, AS DEEPLY IN HOC AS WE ARE.
AND UM IT IS A — A CRUEL DERELICTION OF DUTY UH TO DUMP THESE BILLS ON — UM — ON YOUNGER PEOPLE. THAT’S WORSE THAN DUMB POLICY. IT’S REALLY IMMORAL.

MARGARET HOOVER: BUT IF YOU’RE GOING TO WAVE A WAND, HOW WOULD YOU FIX IT? SAY YOU FIXED ENTITLEMENTS ALREADY, HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT PAYING DOWN THE DEBT ?

MITCH DANIELS: YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAD, UH SERIOUSLY ADDRESSED THOSE QUESTIONS, AND YOU HAD ANY SORT OF A — OF A PRO GROWTH ECONOMIC POLICY OVER A SUSTAINED PERIOD, UM, WE’D GET OUT OF THE CORNER THAT WE’RE HEADED INTO. 

MARGARET HOOVER: SO WE’RE STILL IN A WORLD DEVOID OF POLITICAL REALITIES. UH, HOW WOULD YOU 

APPROACH THIS IDEAL BALANCE FOR TRADE?

MITCH DANIELS: EH, TRADE WILL FIND ITS OWN CORRECT BALANCE. YOU KNOW, UM, HOPEFULLY, UM, WE’LL REMAIN A COUNTRY THAT PEOPLE WANT TO INVEST IN.

MARGARET HOOVER: HOW ABOUT TARIFFS?

MITCH DANIELS: WELL, I WON’T SAY THEY’RE NEVER-EVER UH A ROLE FOR THEM, UM, BUT THEY OUGHT TO BE UH AS MINIMAL AS POSSIBLE. 

MARGARET HOOVER: TAX POLICY. WHAT’S THE BEST APPROACH TO TAXING OUR CORPORATIONS AND OUR INDIVIDUALS?

MITCH DANIELS: WELL, CORPORATIONS DON’T PAY TAXES, THEY COLLECT THEM. SO, THE LEVEL OF THOSE OUGHT TO BE SEEN AS PART OF THE —  I THINK — AS PART OF THE OVERALL UH LEVEL. THEY WILL PASS — THAT’S A PASS THROUGH AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. UH, I THINK WE’VE SEEN EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, NOT A MATTER OF PHILOSOPHY, THAT LOWER MARGINAL RATES ON INCOME UM SPUR UH — UH WORK AND INITIATIVE AND INVESTMENT AND ARE A GOOD IDEA. SO EH THE FORMULA HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME.
AND IT USED TO BE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT THAT THE BROADEST POSSIBLE BASE, THAT IS TO SAY THE FEWEST LOOPHOLES, AND THE LOWEST RATES, IS THE RIGHT WAY TO TAX INCOME. YOU KNOW, WITH THE BILLS WE’VE GOT COMING, EITHER WILLINGLY OR AGAINST THE WALL, THEY’RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE SOME TAX INCREASES IN THE FUTURE.

MARGARET HOOVER: ALL RIGHT. NOW WE’RE BACK TO REALITY. 

MITCH DANIELS: OH, DARN.

MARGARET HOOVER: WE’RE — WE’RE IN A POLITICAL REALITY. AND HERE’S WHAT I’D LIKE TO KNOW. UH, YOU’RE THE PRESIDENT OF A UNIVERSITY, YOU TEACH STUDENTS, YOU GIVE OUT GRADES.

MITCH DANIELS: MHMM.

MARGARET HOOVER: IF YOU WERE TO GRADE HOW WE’RE DOING ON EACH OF THESE POLICIES, HOW ARE WE DOING ON  OUR ENTITLEMENTS?

MITCH DANIELS: CAN I MAKE THIS EASY? EVERYTHING WE’VE DISCUSSED IS AN “F.”

MARGARET HOOVER: EVERY SINGLE THING? TAXES ARE AN F?

MITCH DANIELS: WELL, AT PURDUE WE DON’T BELIEVE IN GRADE INFLATION SO UH —

MARGARET HOOVER: OKAY.

MITCH DANIELS: YEAH, WELL, NO, I’M SORRY WE DID TALK ABOUT TAXES AND I THINK IN GENERAL, THEY — UH — WE’VE MADE SOME IMPROVEMENTS OUT OF THAT — 

MARGARET HOOVER: — AN “F” ON TRADE?

MITCH DANIELS: I THINK THE JURY IS OUT.
I DON’T KNOW WHERE THAT’S ALL GOING TO SETTLE.
I CAN’T TELL HOW MUCH OF — OF TODAY’S UM, UM, ACTIVITY AND CONTROVERSY THERE  IS TACTICAL AND HOW MUCH IS STRATEGIC. IN OTHER WORDS, IF IT’S TACTICAL, TO GET A BETTER DEAL UNDER FREE TRADE CONDITIONS, THAT – THAT WOULD BE A POSITIVE OUTCOME.

MARGARET HOOVER: WHAT ABOUT, UH, THE NATIONAL DEBT? THAT’S AN “F”? 

MITCH DANIELS:  THATS AN EASY “F.”

MARGARET: HEALTH CARE? 

MITCH DANIELS: YEAH, SAME.

MARGARET: MEDICARE? MEDICAID? YEAH?

MITCH DANIELS: YEAH, NO, NO, THEY’RE OUT OF CONTROL. IT’S UH — EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

MARGARET HOOVER:  HERE’S WHAT CATCHES MY ATTENTION.

YOU JUST SAID THE SPENDING IS OUT OF CONTROL AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT. AND THE PROBLEM I SEE IS THAT THERE ACTUALLY AREN’T ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT KNOW IT OR IF THEY KNOW IT —

MITCH DANIELS: MHMM.

MARGARET HOOVER: — THEY’RE NOT SAYING WHAT YOU JUST SAID. AND SO I WONDER, WHETHER THERE IS  A POLITICAL CONSTITUENCY ANYMORE FOR THE IDEAS THAT YOU’VE JUST ARTICULATED.

MITCH DANIELS: EVIDENCE SAYS “NO.” UM, AND IT’S HUMAN, YOU KNOW? NO — NOBODY WANTS TO, UH,UM, STOP THE PARTY, UH, BEFORE THE–

MARGARET HOOVER: THAT’S NOT TRUE.

MITCH DANIELS: MHMM.

MARGARET HOOVER: BECAUSE WHEN YOU WERE GOVERNOR OF INDIANA, YOU DID SOME THINGS TO STOP THE PARTY.

MITCH DANIELS: WELL, I’M THINKING ABOUT THE FEDERAL ARRANGEMENT.

MARGARET HOOVER: ALL RIGHT.

MITCH DANIELS: THERE’S A — THERE’S A FUNDAMENTAL — 

MARGARET HOOVER: WELL —

MITCH DANIELS: — DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO LEVELS, AS YOU KNOW. I USED TO SAY, WHEN I — UM — UH — WHEN I TOOK UH UP AN ELECTED OFFICE, YOU KNOW, THAT I IMMEDIATELY LOOKED AROUND IN ALL OF THE CLOSETS FOR THE PRINTING PRESS AND THERE WASN’T ONE. THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EVERYWHERE ELSE IS THAT THEY CAN PRINT THE MONEY THEY 

UH WANT TO SPEND TODAY AND UH OTHER LEVELS CAN’T.

MARGARET HOOVER: BUT YOU TOOK- I MEAN, YOU DID A COUPLE OF THINGS TO ENCOURAGE INVESTMENT IN YOUR STATE WHICH GENERATED REVENUES FOR YOUR STATE.

MITCH DANIELS: RIGHT.

MARGARET HOOVER: AND THEY WERE NOT POLITICALLY EASY THINGS TO DO. THEY WERE POLITICALLY COURAGEOUS THINGS TO DO. INDIANA BECAME THE 23RD “RIGHT TO WORK” STATE WHEN YOU WERE GOVERNOR. UH, YOU SUFFERED OR ENDURED MAJOR LABOR PROTESTS WHEN YOU WERE GOVERNOR BECAUSE OF THAT. IN OTHER WORDS, THERE ARE POLITICALLY DIFFICULT THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE THAT IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE 

THESE DAYS ARE UNWILLING TO DO.

MITCH DANIELS: I THINK THE CENTRAL QUESTION FOR OUR DEMOCRACY, NOT TO GET TOO METAPHYSICAL HERE WITH YOU, MARGARET, BUT ALL OF THESE GREAT QUESTIONS REALLY SURFACE THE BIG ONE TO ME — OR — OR SUM UP TO THE BIG ONE WHICH IS: ARE WE REALLY UM GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE A SELF-GOVERNING PEOPLE FOR THE LONG TERM? DEMOCRACY IS NOT THE NATURAL STATE. TYRANNY AND AUTOCRACY AND UM MILITARY UH TYRANTS AND MONARCHS IS THE — IS THE RULE IN HISTORY UH OR THE RULE IN HISTORY, NOT UH — NOT A FREE PEOPLE UH GOVERNING BY CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED. AND THE SKEPTICS HAVE ALWAYS SAID, THAT UH IT’S A CUTE LITTLE IDEA, BUT IT WON’T LAST FOR VARIOUS REASONS. AND I STILL BELIEVE THAT THERE’S A — THERE — THERE’S AN OPPORTUNITY UH FOR PEOPLE TO SPEAK TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE UM ABOUT A FUTURE THAT UH IS MORE UM UH RESPECTFUL OF THEIR CHILDREN’S INTERESTS. YOU KNOW, 

MARGARET HOOVER: ARE THE SET OF IDEAS THAT YOU HAVE EXPRESSED BECOMING POLITICALLY EXTINCT?

MITCH DANIELS: WELL, TIME WILL TELL. YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, CLEARLY, UH FREEDOM. THERE’S A — THERE’S SOME UH UH PREMISES UNDER THE UH — ALL THE ANSWERS I’M — I’M GIVING YOU, WHICH IS THAT — THAT — THAT THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE OF OUR POLITICS AND OUR SYSTEM OUGHT TO BE THE PROTECTION OF INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY. AS I ALWAYS USED TO SAY, WE SHOULD NEVER TAKE A DOLLAR FROM A FREE CITIZEN WITHOUT REALLY GOOD REASON TO DO SO. SO THAT– IT’S REALLY NOT ABOUT DOLLAR AND CENTS AND WHAT- SO-CALLED FISCAL POLICY, IT’S ABOUT FREEDOM.

MARGARET HOOVER: WELL, AND IT’S A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY, TOO.

MITCH DANIELS: I THINK SO, TOO. AND, UM…

A SECOND, I THINK, PRESUPPOSITION OF OUR SYSTEM IS THAT PEOPLE WILL BE RESPONSIBLE, SOMEWHAT RESPONSIBLE, IN THEIR OWN LIVES AND IN THEIR COLLECTIVE GOVERNANCE OF THE COUNTRY THAT WE WON’T UH PRINT MONEY IN UNBELIEVABLE QUANTITIES, SPEND IT ON OURSELVES TODAY, AND PASS THE BILLS TO OUR CHILDREN. MOST PEOPLE DON’T– HAVEN’T BEEN ENCOURAGED TO THINK ABOUT IT THAT WAY.
AND IF THEY DID, I — I STILL BELIEVE MANY MORE WOULD
SAY, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

MARGARET HOOVER: I WOULD HOPE THAT THAT’S THE CASE.
IT’S JUST THAT WE’VE NOW HAD A REPUBLICAN HOUSE, OR A A REPUBLICAN SENATE, AND A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT.
AND FISCAL CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS MOMENT FOR 20, 30 YEARS.  AND WE’VE SEEN VERY LITTLE REALIZATION OF THE IDEAS THAT WE’VE ESPOUSED FOR SO LONG .

MITCH DANIELS: LIFE’S FULL OF SURPRISES.
IN — IN FAIRNESS THIS PRESIDENT DID NOT CAMPAIGN THAT WAY, DID NOT WIN ELECTION ON — ON THOSE IDEAS. AND UM  SO YOU CAN’T BLAME HIM FOR NOT —

MARGARET HOOVER: ABSOLUTELY NOT.
IT JUST– IT’S — IT’S STRIKING THAT THE AMERICAN, THE MODERN AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT THAT HAS PINNED ITSELF SO STRONGLY TO ONE OF ITS THREE PILLARS AS FISCAL CONSERVATISM, SEEMS TO HAVE EVAPORATED THAT PILLAR IN THE LAST SEVERAL, COUPLE YEARS.

MITCH DANIELS: BUT MAYBE IT’S JUST BEEN OVERTAKEN. THERE WAS A DIFFERENT UM COALITION OR ASSEMBLY OF VOTERS THAT CAME TOGETHER TO SO NARROWLY ELECT OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT. AND IN ALL HONESTY, UM, HE, I THINK, PROBABLY READ THEM AS NOT — NOT PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN HEARING ABOUT UH GETTING OUR BILLS PAID AND CHANGING THESE PROGRAMS. AND IT WAS JUST NEVER PART OF HIS, OF HIS AGENDA. 

MARGARET HOOVER: YOU KNOW, HE MADE IT VERY CLEAR WHEN HE RAN, THAT SOCIAL SECURITY WASN’T SOMETHING THAT HE WAS GOING TO  TOUCH. HE HAD NOT — NO  INTEREST IN TOUCHING ENTITLEMENT SPENDING OR — OR ANY OF THESE PROGRAMS, SO THAT’S CERTAINLY TRUE, IF DISAPPOINTING. MAYBE WE’RE AT AN INFLECTION POINT, MAYBE WE’RE NOT. UM MAYBE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTINUES TO BE THE PARTY OF FISCAL CONSERVATISM. BUT MAYBE IT DOESN’T. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ABOUT WHAT IS THE VEHICLE GOING TO BE

FOR THE IDEAS THAT YOU’VE ESPOUSED THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER?

MITCH DANIELS: I’M NOT CERTAIN. YOU KNOW, I’M UH — I’M IN — THESE UH — FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS, I’VE BEEN AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF NO POLITICAL PARTY. IT WOULDN’T BE CONSISTENT.

MARGARET HOOVER: WHAT A LUXURY.
 

MITCH DANIELS: WELL, IT HAS — IT’S HAD ITS UH  — IT’S HAD ITS UH ADVANTAGES, ABSOLUTELY. I KNOW. AND TO BE CONSISTENT WITH MY RESPONSIBILITY AT A PUBLIC  UNIVERSITY, I DON’T — I HAVE NO COMMENTS EVER ON PARTISAN MATTERS. UM…BUT NOT TO DUCK THE QUESTION, UM, YOU’RE QUITE RIGHT. NEITHER OF OUR EXISTING PARTIES, AND NO UH THIRD MOVEMENT THAT I SEE UM WANTS TO PICK UP THIS PARTICULAR UH SET OF ISSUES

MARGARET HOOVER: DOES CHARACTER MATTER IN LEADERSHIP?

MITCH DANIELS: SURE, IT DOES, UM, EVERYWHERE.
AND IT MATTERS IN UH BUSINESS, WHERE I SPENT MORE YEARS THAN I DID IN, CERTAINLY, IN ELECTED OFFICE, OR ANYWHERE ELSE. AND WE’VE SEEN, UH, IT — IT MATTERS IN OUR UH — UH OTHER INSTITUTIONS, OUR FAITH INTUITIONS AND SO FORTH. AND — AND OBVIOUSLY, IN GOVERNMENT. AND UH, UM, RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE UM VERY LOW LEVELS OF TRUST AND CONFIDENCE IN OUR INSTITUTIONS. UM I’VE ALWAYS BELIEVED AND SAID, SCEPTICISM, LET’S JUST SAY ABOUT BIG GOVERNMENT FOR A MOMENT– THAT’S AS AMERICAN AS IT GETS. HEALTHY SCEPTICISM. BUT WE DON’T WANT IT TO BE BECOME CONTEMPT FOR ALL GOVERNMENT OR FOR OTHER INSTITUTIONS, EITHER.
AND UM-  BUT AS SOMEONE HAS RECENTLY WRITTEN IF PEOPLE DON’T TRUST THESE INTUITIONS, MAYBE THEY’VE GOT A GOOD REASON. AND IT SHOULD – IT SHOULD START WITH LEADERSHIP THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE SOME CONFIDENCE IN, AND CAN HAVE SOME RESPECT, OR EVEN ADMIRATION FOR.

MARGARET HOOVER:WELL, THE POLITICAL CLIMATE HAS BECOME SO POLARIZED AND I THINK TRIBAL. AND YOU GAVE A COMMENCEMENT ADDRESS WHERE YOU ADDRESSED THE TOPIC OF TRIBALISM.

DANIELS [CLIP]: OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, THIS NEW SELF-SEGREGATION HAS TAKEN ON A NEW AND MUCH MORE WORRISOME DIMENSION.
IT IS NO LONGER JUST A MATTER OF AMERICANS NOT KNOWING AND UNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER, WE’VE SEEN THESE CLUSTERS DEEPEN AND HARDEN UNTIL SEPARATION HAS LED TO ANGER, MISUNDERSTANDING TURNED INTO HOSTILITY. AT THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL IT IS A FORMULA FOR BITTERNESS AND NEGATIVITY. FOR A SELF-GOVERNING PEOPLE, IT IS POISON.”

>> MITCH DANIELS: A MINUTE AGO YOU SAID BOTH SIDES CAN 

GARNER SHORT TERM WINS, AND THATS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, BUT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU CALL WINNING.

IF YOU WANT LONG-TERM SUCCESS FOR THE COUNTRY, THEN THIS IS POISON. TO DIVIDE INTO, ROUGHLY, EQUAL ARMED CAMPS WHO COME TO BELIEVE THAT DISAGREEMENTS UH REPRESENT SOME SORT OF CHARACTER DEFECT IN THE OTHER UH SIDE, UH MAYBE EVEN SHOULD BE  CRIMINALIZED, 

IN THE MORE EXTREME CASES, UM UM THAT MAY BE A FORMULA FOR SOMEBODY WINNING AN ELECTION SOMEWHERE, OR ONE SIDE WINNING A MAJORITY SOMEWHERE, BUT IT IS, ALSO, AS WE’VE SEEN, A PRETTY GOOD FORMULA FOR PARALYSIS WHEN WE’VE GOT UH ISSUES WE OUGHT TO ACT ON IF WE WANT A BETTER FUTURE.
>> MARGARET HOOVER: IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NOW THE PARTY OF TRUMP, OR IS THIS AN ABERRATION?
>> MITCH DANIELS: I’M NOT THE ONE TO ASK. I– THAT’S BEEN THE RIGHT QUESTION 

SINCE, REALLY, HE LOCKED UP THE NOMINATION. AND I GUESS FOR THE MOMENT, IT DOES APPEAR. I MEAN, IT SEEMS CLEAR, THAT UM REPUBLICANS, IN GENERAL, HAVE ASSOCIATED WITH THE — THAT SET OF VIEWS AND UH POLICIES THAT HE REPRESENTS .

>> MARGARET HOOVER:  ALL RIGHT. LET’S GO TO PURDUE.
LET’S START WITH THE STUDENT DEBT CRISIS. 

1.6 TRILLION IN STUDENT DEBT. UH, THE AVERAGE STUDENT THAT HAS STUDENT DEBT AROUND $33,000 IN STUDENT DEBT. WHY IS COLLEGE SO EXPENSIVE?

>> MITCH DANIELS: I SAID SOME THINGS ABOUT HEALTH CARE BEING, IF THAT IF YOU HAD DESIGNED IT TO 

COST TOO MUCH, YOU COULD HARDLY HAVE DONE BETTER.
ITS A VERY CLOSE PARALLEL. AND LET’S THINK ABOUT HIGHER EDUCATION. PEOPLE HAVE COME TO BELIEVE IT IS A NECESSITY, JUST GOT TO HAVE THE DIPLOMA.
UH THERES NO MEASUREMENT OF QUALITY, YOU CAN’T REALLY TELL WHERE STUDENTS ARE LEARNING MORE OR NOT.
IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY EVIDENCE, PEOPLE HAVE ASSOCIATED A STICKER PRICE, IF IT COSTS MORE IT MUST BE A BETTER SCHOOL. UH THEN, YOU POUR IN THIRD-PARTY SUPPORT, WHICH WE DID WITH THE VERY BEST OF INTENTIONS, GRANTS AND LOANS AND ALL OF THE 

REST, WHICH MAKES IT FEEL LESS EXPENSIVE THAN IT IS.

>> MARGARET HOOVER: SO THIS IS THE POINT THAT VERY– GETS VERY LITTLE AIR TIME, THOUGH. I THINK WHAT YOU’RE SAYING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS SOME ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY IN THE INFLATED TUITION COSTS IN UNIVERSITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. CAN YOU– EXPLAIN THAT.
>> MITCH DANIELS: UH EVERY TIME WE ADD ANOTHER DOLLAR OF FEDERAL SUBSIDY TO THE SYSTEM, THE SCHOOLS POCKET SOMETHING LIKE TWO-THIRDS OR $0.70 OF IT AND RAISE THEIR PRICES.
>> MARGARET HOOVER: IN OTHER WORDS THEY COUNT ON THE FEDERAL GRANTS AND KNOWING THAT THAT REVENUE WILL BE COMING IN, INCREASE THEIR TUITION COSTS.
>> MITCH DANIELS: THAT’S RIGHT. AND FAMILIES AND STUDENTS PAY IT BECAUSE IT DOESN’T FEEL MORE EXPENSIVE, AT LEAST TIL THE — AT LEAST TILL THE DEBT BILLS START COMING IN.

>> MARGARET HOOVER: SO WHAT YOU’RE SAYING, THERE’S A WAY AROUND AN EXPENSIVE COLLEGE EDUCATION?
>> MITCH DANIELS: UM I THINK SO. AT YOU KNOW, PURDUE UNIVERSITY, WE  TRY TO ASK THE QUESTION A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. I SAID, ON ARRIVAL, THAT WHY DON’T WE TRY AT LEAST ONE YEAR TIME OUT FROM ANNUAL TUITION INCREASES. THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR 36 YEARS, LIKE EVERYWHERE ELSE. AND WE FOUND OUT WE COULD NOT ONLY DO IT ONCE, BUT MULTIPLE TIMES. WE’VE DONE IT, IT WILL BE SEVEN TIMES BY THE END OF NEXT YEAR. AND — SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS OF NO INCREASE.
WE LOWERED THE COST OF ROOM, BOOK, AND BOOKS AND BOARD. SO IT WILL BE LESS EXPENSIVE TO ATTEND OUR SCHOOL IN NOMINAL, UNADJUSTED DOLLARS IN 2020 THAN IT WAS IN 2012. SO IT CAN BE DONE. INSTEAD OF ASKING FAMILIES TO ADJUST THEIR BUDGETS TO OUR SPENDING, HOW ABOUT WE TRY TO ADJUST OUR SPENDING TO THEIR BUDGETS.
IT HAS WORKED OUT OKAY SO FAR.

>> MARGARET HOOVER: SO IT WAS SIMPLY ELIMINATING INEFFICIENCIES?

>> MITCH DANIELS: YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, PART OF IT WAS REFORMING OF HEALTH CARE AND PENSION SYSTEMS, ALONG THE LINES WE TALKED ABOUT, THE ROUGH PARALLEL TO THE FEDERAL ARRANGEMENT, THERE WERE SOME BIG SAVINGS THERE. AND UM IT TURNS OUT THAT UM HAVING A REPUTATION  

 FOR CARING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY, PLUS AN ACADEMIC REPUTATION FOR ACADEMIC QUALITY, IS PRETTY ATTRACTIVE.
SO WE’VE HAD RECORD APPLICATIONS. AND WE HAVE THE BIGGEST STUDY BODY WE EVER HAD, THIS FALL.
>> MARGARET HOOVER: THE NEXT GENERATION IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE STUDENT DEBT CRISIS BECAUSE, OBVIOUSLY, THEY’RE THE  ONES THAT HAVE TO ENDURE PAYING A DEBT OBLIGATION. THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT, IS IN FAVOR OF WAVING A WAND AND HAVING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKE ON THE COST. IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR STRATEGY AND SOLUTION THAT MIGHT OFFER A BROADER POLICY SOLUTION SHY OF THE GOVERNMENT PAYS FOR IT ALL?

>> MITCH DANIELS: WE’RE NOT PRESCRIBING WHAT PURDUE HAS DONE FOR ANYBODY ELSE. IT- IT- IT– WE BELIEVE IT FITS US. WE’RE A LAND GRANT SCHOOL. MANY PEOPLE DON’T KNOW THIS. BUT LAND GRANT SCHOOLS WERE CREATED BY ABE LINCOLN AND HIS ALLIES TO DEMOCRATIZE 

HIGHER EDUCATION. AND AT A TIME IN WHICH ONLY ONE OR TWO PERCENT OF THE WEALTHY AND PRIVILEGED WENT, WE TAKE THAT VERY SERIOUSLY TODAY. THAT’S WHY KEEPING THE COSTS DOWN IS SO CENTRAL TO US. 

>> MARGARET HOOVER: AS YOU’VE STEPPED AWAY FROM POLITICS, YOU’VE ENGAGED 

IN THE NEXT GENERATION OF AMERICANS IN A NEW AND MORE MEANINGFUL WAY THAN YOU HAVE BEFORE, AT LEAST ON A LARGER SCALE. AND I WONDER IF YOU THINK THAT THEY ARE WELL-PREPARED OR SUFFICIENTLY PREPARED TO TAKE ON THE WEIGHTY RESPONSIBLE OF SELF-GOVERNANCE.

>>MITCH DANIELS: THE YOUNG PEOPLE AT PURDUE ARE TREMENDOUSLY

 PURPOSEFUL, IF EVERY YOUNG PERSON IN AMERICA LOOKED ANYTHING LIKE THAT, I’D HAVE NO WORRIES WHATSOEVER.
I CAN’T SAY FOR SURE THAT THEY DO, ALTHOUGH I’M VERY, VERY  HOPEFUL. AND UM THE STORY OF THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN WHEN WE’VE HAD ALL KINDS OF TROUBLES BEFORE, WE’VE HAD VERY DEEP DIVISIONS BEFORE AND SUBSEQUENT GENERATIONS HAVE WORKED THEIR WAY OUT.
IN THAT SPEECH YOU READ A LITTLE PIECE OF, I SAID AT THE END, TO THE STUDENTS, I SAID, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE YOU MAY HAVE IS BRINGING THIS COUNTRY BACK TOGETHER. AND AROUND SOME COMMON PURPOSE AND SOME SENSE OF MUTUALITY. AND I THINK YOUR ELDERS MAY BE TOO DUG IN TO DO IT. SO LET’S HOPE SO.

>> MARGARET HOOVER:  WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, CAN YOU CHARACTERIZE THAT PROBLEM MORE OR PUT A FINER POINT ON IT?  WHY… WHY IS THERE A LACK OF A NATIONAL SENSE OF IDENTITY OR PURPOSE THAT YOU’VE JUST DESCRIBED.
WHAT HAS HARDENED US.

>> MITCH DANIELS: YEAH.
ITS CLEARLY MULTI-VARIANT. THERE HAD BEEN– YES, THERE’S BEEN ECONOMIC SEPARATION, IN WHICH TRADITIONAL SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY HAVE STRUGGLED. NOW, MANY SEEM TO BE DOING A LITTLE BETTER RECENTLY, AND MAYBE A SUSTAINED PERIOD OF THAT WOULD HELP BRING A LITTLE GREATER HARMONY. BUT I REALLY HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT THE BIGGER ISSUE WAS THE UH MANIFEST CULTURAL DISDAIN OF SOME PEOPLE FOR THEIR FELLOW AMERICANS. AND IT IS VERY VISIBLE IN A MASS MEDIA WORLD.  UM AND THERE’S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT IT HAD A LOT TO DID WITH THE TUMULTUOUS ELECTION 

WE SAW LAST CYCLE.

>> MARGARET HOOVER:

 THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS A TOUCHSTONE RIGHT NOW IN OUR NATIONAL DEBATES. AND COLLEGE CAMPUSES SEEM TO BE A HOTBED FOR DEBATE ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
>> MITCH DANIELS: UH-HUH.
>> MARGARET HOOVER: UM HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE CONTROVERSY AROUND FREE SPEECH ON CAMPUSES, AS A UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT?
>> MITCH DANIELS: ITS BEEN PRETTY ALARMING.
NOW, I’M GOING TO TELL YOU, I THINK IT GETTING BETTER.
BUT I — BUT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME, REALLY, UNACCEPTABLE, EGREGIOUS TRESPASSES.

FIRST OF ALL, OF INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE’S FREEDOM; AND THEN SECONDLY, OF THE PRINCIPLE OF FREE EXPRESSION.
YOU KNOW, FREE EXPRESSION IS NOT ONLY FUNDAMENTAL TO OUR POLITICAL DISCOURSE, ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES IT OUGHT TO BE THE MOST SACROSANCT OF PRINCIPLES. BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE CAN’T ADVANCE WHERE EVERYBODY THINKS EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS. ALL THE GREAT SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES AND OTHER… AND OTHER ADVANCES IN HUMAN UNDERSTANDING HAVE COME BECAUSE PEOPLE ARGUED ABOUT THEM. MORE AND MORE SCHOOLS HAVE, I BELIEVE,

 BEGUN TO DO WHAT WE DID AT PURDUE, WHICH IS TO ADOPT VERY CLEAR SPEECH CODES, THAT SAY — FREE SPEECH CODES THAT SAY, THAT WE WILL, ESSENTIALLY, WE MAY PUNISH ACTIONS, BUT NOT WORDS. 

>> MARGARET HOOVER:
SO, ONE OF MY FAVORITE PARTS OF THE SHOW IS WE SHOW A CLIP FROM THE ORIGINAL “FIRING LINE,” WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, WHO I KNOW YOU ADMIRE,  AND WAS A GALVANIZING UH PERSONALITY BEHIND THE MODERN AMERICAN CONSERVATISM MOVEMENT AND HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

Mr. Buckley: Society is a vehicle which will continue to protect your sons and mine, and we have therefore an interest in the shape of that society.

Dr. Friedman: Of course we do. But the question is, why is it that you have had so much

of a reduction in the sense of gratitude? In my opinion it’s primarily because we have been doing so much through government. it’s primarily because we have

an overblown,

 overgrown government spending 40 — more than 40 percent of our income, supposedly for our benefit, mostly waste and mostly restricting our freedom. And as a result,

we have destroyed a sense of individual responsibility and of responsibility to one another. Now everybody takes it for granted that if there is a problem that government is going to take

care of it.

>> MARGARET HOOVER: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
>> MITCH DANIELS:  WITH DEFERENCE TO TWO OF THE WISEST PEOPLE OF THE LAST CENTURY, I DON’T THINK IT IS QUITE THAT BAD.  

I COME FROM A PART OF THE COUNTRY WHERE I GUARANTEE YOU PEOPLE STILL ARE VOLUNTEERING AND STILL ARE LOOKING OUT FOR THE NEIGHBORS AND STILL FEEL REAL RESPONSIBILITY TO LEAD THEIR OWN LIVES IN AN UPRIGHT WAY, AND IN A WAY THAT RESPECTS UH THE FUTURE.
AND SO I’M NOT GIVING UP ON THAT. I STILL UH — I THINK THE UNTESTED APPEAL IN OUR POLITICS IS IS TO SAY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THESE OTHER FOLKS DON’T THINK YOU CAN CUT IT, BUT WE DO.
WE WANT TO TRUST YOU TO — YOU KNOW, MAKE YOUR OWN HEALTH CARE DECISIONS. TO DECIDE WHERE YOUR KIDS GO TO SCHOOL, I STILL BELIEVE MOST AMERICANS THINK OF THEMSELVES AS RESPONSIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND COULD BE ADDRESSED THAT WAY IN A FASHION THAT, RIGHT NOW, NEITHER OF OUR PARTIES UH SEEMS TO DO .
>> MARGARET HOOVER:UM
GOVERNOR 

DANIELS, THANK YOU FOR COMING TO “FIRING LINE.”
>> MITCH DANIELS: APPRECIATE THE INVITATION.