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ROB REINER FINAL TRANSCRIPT
| He played a liberal on TV. Now he’s playing one in real life. And using his platform to bash the President. This Week on Firing Line.
To many – Rob Reiner will be forever known by his television nickname SOT MONTAGE ARCHIE: GET AWAY FROM ME YA MEATHEAD // KEEP AWAY FROM ME MEATHEAD // NOW WAIT A MINUTE MEATHEAD // That came from his fictional father-in-law and politically incorrect foil, Archie Bunker After “All in the Family,” Reiner went on to direct some of the most memorable moments in movie history… Nat sound Harry met Sally “I’ll have what she’s having” Now, Reiner not having it — A few good men nat sound “I want the truth, his public attacks against the president on a scale of one to ten go to 11! REINER: You got to get this guy out of office, and we as Democrats, and we as patriots, and we as Americans have to say no more of this. But whom exactly is he hoping to convince? What does Rob Reiner say now? |
Firing Line with Margaret Hoover is made possible by. The Margaret and Daniel Loeb Foundation. The Robertson Foundation. David Tepper charitable foundation. Marlene Ricketts. The Agnes Family Foundation. Spencer behavior. Rosalind P. Walter. Corporate funding is provided by O and now Stevens. And by Pfizer.
HOOVER: Rob Reiner, welcome to Firing Line.
REINER: Thanks for having me.
HOOVER: It’s such a delight to be with you. You are an iconic film director.
REINER: Really?
HOOVER: of classic American films like Stand By Me and The Princess Bride. And This is Spinal Tap. And almost more germane to this conversation is the role you played as the son in law of Archie Bunker.
REINER: Yes
HOOVER: on all in the family.
REINER: Yes. (could be a social clip)
HOOVER: But you have gone on from your acting career and your directing to become a political activist x I met you first on a cause that maybe started as a liberal cause but then became a bipartisan cause.
REINER: Right.
HOOVER: Where you worked very closely with conservative legal icon Ted Olson and liberal lion David Boies —
REINER: Right.
HOOVER: to challenge the constitutionality of Proposition 8 in California which outlawed same sex marriage.
REINER: Right. And that led to essentially making it the law of the land to allow for same sex marriage and I remember you know when we had the first trial in San Francisco in the district court you were there–
HOOVER: I sat next to you in Federal District Court!
REINER: That’s where we met. That’s the first time we met. And it was an interesting, you know, dichotomy between, as you say, David Boies and Ted Olson, because the way Ted Olson talked to me about it the first time I met him, and I even said to him when when when we first met, I said, you realize you put me in bed for two days in the Bush v. Gore argument because he was on the side of George Bush. And, as it turned out, David Boies was on the side of Al Gore and the fact that they teamed up basically took the politics out of the issue. And what he said to me is that he viewed marriage as a very conservative idea that is the bedrock of conservative principles, and a married couple should should be allowed to, you know, to be able to be together and to have a family. So that was to me an eye opener.
HOOVER: Well it was an eye opener hearing a conservative make a case for a value, an ideal that you believed in.
REINER: Right.
HOOVER: And since then have there been any opportunities to forge that kind of a bipartisan consensus on the political issues you’ve been involved in?
REINER: Well, I mean obviously the country is so divided now. Iit has been divided for a long, long time. I mean there was a huge divide that started over the Vietnam War and that divide has never closed. It has kept getting wider and wider. And I do believe that this last election in 2016, that divide was exploited. The Russians saw an opportunity where there was a huge divide and the addition of social media, which — which blew it up all out of proportion. And what I’ve discovered, and that’s kind of a weird thing that -and Trump has done more, I think, to even divide us further, in that I’ve made a lot of Republican friends over this people that I would not have normally talked to like David Frum
HOOVER: Republicans who are never Trumpers.
REINER: Well, they didn’t start out as never Trumpers. Some of them did. Some of them then went, like, what’s going on here? These are not people that I would necessarily agree wholeheartedly on — on issues, but certainly they argue their point with a basis in fact Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, you know, you’re entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. At least there’s a common basis of fact that you can discuss things with them.
HOOVER: So, when you first played Meathead as you were endearingly called by your father in law
REINER: Yes.
HOOVER: On All In The Family. I mean, you were the liberal son-in-law. He was the conservative father-in-law and the divisions and the conflicts and disagreements you had on the show in many ways parallel the same disagreements that we’re having today. Let’s look at a clip from All in the Family from the first moment you met Archie Bunker:
AITF CLIP MONTAGE 1: Let me tell you something, Mr. Bunker. No let me tell you something Mr. Stebic. You are a meathead. What did you call me? A meathead. Dead from the neck up, meathead.
HOOVER: So you wrote that episode.
REINER: I did. That was a flashback.
HOOVER: And then they go on and throughout the entire course of the run of the show, it’s marked by these fractures in their worldview, which we’re gonna show a clip of. Here is.
AITF CLIP MONTAGE 2: Salvatore, Feldman, O’Riley, Nelson. Italian, a Jew, an Irishman, and a regular American. Take Feldman there. He’s up for Treasurer. Well, that’s perfect. All them people know how to handle money. Know what I mean? No, I don’t. Send me your poor, your deadbeats, your filthy. [12:35:32] And all the nations that sent them in here. They come swarming in like ants. The Spanish PR’s, your Japs, your Chinamen, your Krauts, and your Hebes. Tell them all to come in here. And they’re free to live in their own separate sections. That’s what makes America great, buddy!
REINER: [LAUGHS]
HOOVER: How germaine is that to the current debates that are happening?
REINER: Well, that’s exactly the argument we’re having now. We say it in brexit where one side blames the other, and demonizes them for their lot in life, and that’s what we’re seeing right now.
HOOVER: You joined Twitter. It’s been reported to troll President Trump
REINER: I — I was so technologically inept. I mean, I didn’t — I didn’t email. I didn’t do Twitter. I didn’t do anything. My father was on Twitter long before I was on and He’s 97
HOOVER: 97.
REINER: He just turned ninety seven. Yeah and he tweets every day. But my wife said, you know, this is we’ve got to have a way to push back against Trump and so I joined Twitter and I started that, you know, in 90 — 90 — 2016.
HOOVER: What was it about him then that caused you to take him seriously?
REINER: Well I mean, it’s the — it’s the cult of celebrity
REINER: Well, oddly enough, I mean, you know, the Republicans are the ones who do wind up –.
HOOVER: I mean the celebrity presidents we have have been–
REINER: We have Ronald Reagan was–
HOOVER: Republican
REINER: a celebrity. You know,
HOOVER: Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump
REINER: people are enamored with celebrity. Personally, I didn’t think he was going to win. I really didn’t. My wife thought he was going to win, but I didn’t think he was going to win, but I thought, I knew this guy. I mean, I knew his background in
HOOVER: Did you feel like you knew him because you knew him or do you feel like you knew his voters because of the role you played and the time you spent with those ideas in All In The Family?
REINER: You know, it’s funny. I knew there was the disenfranchised white working class and many cases racist mindset in this country. I knew there was an undercurrent of racism. But I didn’t know it’s going to bubble to the surface like this
HOOVER: But can I just ask you about that. I mean, do you ever de-link those two, that — that white, working class, non-college-educated voters have real economic grievances and —
REINER: absolutely
HOOVER: — cultural grievances that aren’t racism or bigotry.
REINER: No, no, you’re exactly right. It’s not all. I mean, you can’t say, all, you know, Trump supporters are racist. That’s not true. But there is a big chunk that are, that are comfortable with him saying, there are good people on both sides
HOOVER: Or are not uncomfortable enough.
REINER: Yeah (maybe just need the yeah), I mean,but I mean that you know the point is yes But there are, you know, a lot of factory workers who lost their jobs. And Trump, you know, said, “I’m going to bring those factory jobs back and we’re going to we knew that wasn’t true. Everybody knew that wasn’t true. And he’s a huckster and he was he’s a great huckster. He’s like the best snake oil salesman ever there’s no guarantee that democracy survives forever. There’s no guarantee. It’s — it’s just — we’re just people and laws. So if you — i if you destroy the structure, you destroy the laws, you could wind up with an autocracy. And that’s where we’re headed right now.
HOOVER: there does seem to be an alarmism, particularly from people who disagree with Trump that our entire 242 infrastructure of rule of law will unravel at the seat of one president.
REINER: I don’t think it’s necessarily the case, but I would put it to you this way –.
HOOVER: Is that what you just said, though? I mean, that’s what you’re saying is that–
REINER: Yes.
HOOVER: — We could lose everything.
REINER: I don’t think it’s going to happen. I do think that, hopefully, the institutions will hold. But right now what you have is a president who is thumbing his nose at the rule of law by not allowing — whether it’s his tax returns or people to, you know, testify in front of Congress. Now, there are mechanisms to deal with that.
HOOVER: And are they working in your view?
REINER: Not yet. We’ll have to see.
HOOVER: You don’t think — ?
REINER: Not yet because what happens is
HOOVER: Democrats were elected, for example.
REINER: Yes no no, Democrats were elected–
HOOVER: There’s a check against the President.
REINER: That’s — that’s theoretically the check. subpoena power. Now, if those subpoenas are fought against and if then somebody is held in contempt as a result, and then you — there’s no consequence to the contempt of Congress, where does that put us?
HOOVER: I understand the concern and the worry and the constant need to be vigilant] But are you optimistic that — that — that we will be able to retain those checks and balances? it sounds like you’re – you’re quite concerned.
REINER: I’m nervous about it. Benjamin Franklin said we were a republic if you can keep it.
HOOVER: If you can keep it.
REINER: If you can keep it. And right now, we’re being tested. I mean when you look at the the the the sweet spot of any great civilization, it’s usually 250 to 300 years. We’re up — coming up against that. what we’ve seen in the recent four years is a sledgehammer to the institutions. I talk to a lot of constitutional law experts and many of them who said, you know, they respected William Barr. He was an institutionalist and that he was going to be, you know, very, very down the middle with the rule of law. He hasn’t done that.
HOOVER: But it’s really the Congress
REINER: The Congress is the check on the executive branch, but if the Congress shows criminality or the preponderance of evidence and it’s referred to the Justice Department and they say no, when you have a situation where–
HOOVER: The check is the people
REINER: and that becomes 2020.
HOOVER: So before we get to 2020, one of the things you did in 2016 after Trump was elected was found a committee called the Committee to investigate Russia
REINER: Right.
HOOVER: And. I wonder if you can’t — you worked with James Clapper. You worked with John Brennan.
REINER: Right.
HOOVER: What was the goal of the committee to investigate Russia?
REINER: it is so complicated. What the Russians did for people and people still trying to unpack it. We wanted to be able to give as much information to the public
HOOVER: So it was to be a repository of information about Russia investigation until you had full visibility and
REINER: Right, and now what’s scary is that we don’t even have full visibility because the full Mueller report hasn’t come out, the underlying documents have not come out. The Congress is trying to subpoena them. They’re getting thwarted.
HOOVER: So now that the committee for that to investigate Russia has been disbanded Where is Rob Reiner and to focus his energy.
REINER: Well my energy is going to be focused on making sure that Trump doesn’t serve another term. We cannot have that and I’m not just as a Democrat I’m as an American, I don’t want to see the country destroyed. And the good Republicans that I talk to all the time are like their hair is on fire. They don’t understand why those people in Congress are in this cult where they’re worried about their election. At a certain point You’ve got to say I care more about this country than I do about my getting reelected.
HOOVER: How can you be a constructive force in the 2020 field. I mean do you. How do you see your role and
REINER: what I try to do and it’s going to be almost impossible because you know Joe Biden just got into the race. My mantra has always been support everybody. Support everybody and don’t trash anybody. Well
HOOVER: you’re sort of Reagan’s 11th commandment.
REINER: it’s all already thrown out the window because the minute Joe Biden announced and the way you know it works in politics whoever is the perceived front runner at any point gets all the fire from the other candidates. So I’m hoping that they keep their powder dry because ultimately we want the strongest person to emerge and that person to take on Donald Trump. And I like the fact there’s a lot of candidates because They’re all taking on different issues. You’ve got Jay Inslee talking about the environment. You’ve got Elizabeth Warren talking about economic issues. You’ve got Kamala Harris talking about health care. You’ve got Joe Biden talking about the you know the survival the soul of our country
HOOVER: So you’re not concerned about the progressive energy on the party nominating somebody who is too progressive for the country to get behind
REINER: well I’m– if it can’t win. Yes. I mean if they can’t win. But I believe whoever we nominate will we’ll be able to win.
HOOVER: Do you think this country can nominate and elect a Democratic Socialist for president the United States.
REINER: That we’ll find out, that we’ll find out.
HOOVER: Do you think Bernie Sanders could beat Donald Trump.
REINER: I think. We as Democrats regard he’s not a Democrat but he has them. Yeah.
HOOVER: Yeah well he got the Democratic nomination hen
REINER: Then he is the Democratic nominee
HOOVER: And you would vote for him over Donald Trump.
REINER: Absolutely. And what has to happen is Democrats have to coalesce.
HOOVER: Do you think that the Democratic primary process. will yield the candidate who is best to beat Donald Trump.
RIENER: I hope so boy. I mean I like Joe Biden for that REASON
HOOVER: At some point the field has to narrow and it is clear that the energy on the left on the Democratic side and the Democratic Party is on the progressive left that is really where
REINER: always is and same thing with Republican primaries They go hard hard to the right and then you have to swing to the middle for the general.
HOOVER: Well so how– Well that didn’t happen on the Republican side in 2016. Instead you got the. Hard right candidate who is the complete outsider in a field of conservative.
REINER: He wasn’t the hard right candidate
HOOVER: Well, you’re right– he disrupted the conservative movement.
REINER: because now you can believe in international trade
HOOVER: He disrupted what the mainstream conservative movement had heralded for Frankly five decades since William F. Buckley Junior began this program in 1966. I’m going to play a clip for you from an early version of Firing Line where William F. Buckley Jr. was sitting here on this set talking about
REINER: like this.
HOOVER: you’re gonna see him they said he was talking about your character.
REINER: Why did Bill Buckley always sit like this. He was always like this.
HOOVER: You wouldn’t have directed it.
REINER: Why was he sitting like this
HOOVER: Let’s take a look at this clip.
REINER: Yeah, Let’s see if he’s sitting like that.
CLIP_ Incidentally I’d like program that I used to watch when it was on Saturday. Is Archie Bunker a good show. It’s a hilarious Archie Bunker is the greatest at a conservative ripoff in the history of modern offenses. I agree. I mean you don’t need Karl Marx all you need is Archie I would make is absolutely winnable. He’s kind of endearing in a way this isn’t going to go. But don’t you go giving yourself assets. Conservatives are not endearing. No no no I say they’re wrong. The remarkable thing about it is that he made hideous kind of away. There’s something endearing about. [13:06:40] There are some who argue about is a horrible man. There are some endearing about him but his points of view are always held up to be low cost to us. And not only that means a coward a bully. Yeah well they eat
REINER: He didn’t like Archie
HOOVER: he didn’t like Archie because he didn’t like that he. Characterized he made a stereotype of conservatives that he didn’t like. So my question is, Now that you’ve been a political activist and a director and an actor. Where do you think you have the most impact in terms of really. Affecting hearts and minds. About particular issue.
REINER: Well I think it isn’t
HOOVER: Is it directing and it isn;t in Hollywood.
REINER: No.
HOOVER: Is it in the culture.
REINER: No, No
HOOVER: . Or is it actually in the nuts and bolts of politics.
RENER: There you go. Really. There you go. I mean all the family was on for eight years. We were seen by 40 to 45 million people every week. We brought these issues up every week and we were certainly part of the dialogue. You know people talked about it. I mean you didn’t have TiVo and you didn’t have DVR so you had to watch a show. So everybody had that shared experience and they were talking about it the next day but it didn’t change the way you know America went.
HOOVER: You don’t think it laid the foundation for. Certain legislation to get passed or not these attitudes
REINER: not really it just was part of the dialogue. yes you have to keep stoking the conversation and that hopefully leads to something. But in order to get anything done you really have to get under the hood in the nuts and bolts of public policy in order to get it passed.
HOOVER: The people have accused you of being a coastal elite. You’re from New York, you live in Los Angeles
REINER: Yeah, yeah, all that garbage. I actually had a government job for seven years I know in California. So I mean the point is, the point is the two most important issues that I care about is one the environment. Because that’s affect the whole planet and two the survival of democracy. Those are the two things I care about.
HOOVER: So in those states that the Democrats need to win in 2020. Hollywood isn’t particularly popular. Necessarily. I mean you know I you know I don’t know if Rob Reiner is the most successful messenger.
REINER: No no I’m not I’m not I’m not. I understand that. And I– listen, I can’t tell you how many times I get libtard you know on my Twitter feed. I mean I’m the libtard of the world. You know I mean I get all that and I understand that you know I’m toxic in those ways for those people. But if anybody wants to spend any time actually talking and talking about how policy can be affected how it can be put together I can sit and talk with them.
HOOVER: As you became more political and more of a political activist from being an actor to being a director to then spending a lot of your own hard earned resources on the political issues you care about.
REINER: Yeah
HOOVER: How did that impact your reputation in Hollywood.
REINER: Well it didn’t. It didn’t make it any worse for me in Hollywood.
HOOVER: Do your movies suffer in red states because you made them.
REINER: Oh yeah sure sure Sure. But the only thing that’s good for me is I like making the movies. And you know I’m now 72 years old. So I mean I just want to do the things I want to do I enjoy doing it. And some people will like them. Others won’t and you know I can’t worry about that.
HOOVER: Do you think Hollywood is fair to conservatives.
REINER: Well for the actor. Maybe not. Maybe not because that’s just you know you’re just hiring somebody can hire another actor. But for the people who are in power to actually make the films I don’t think it matters. Don’t think it matters.
HOOVER: Hollywood has mostly voted against and supported Democratic candidates to the Republican candidates. They were really strongly opposed to President Bush, especially because of the Iraq war, strongly opposed to Mitt Romney, strongly in favor of Hillary Clinton Barack Obama. But now that Donald Trump is president, do you think that Hollywood overreacted to previous Republicans. Because when you compare many liberals will say there’s just no comparison between Trump–
REINER: Yeah
HOOVER: — and Bush and Romney.
REINER: Yeah, there isn’t. I mean the fact of the matter is we still have we still forget about the Iraq war and the devastation and the terrible mistake we made in terms of foreign policy what we did there. So you can’t take that away and people, a lot of people died. I mean not just five six thousand Americans but also up to a million Iraqis. So there’s nothing that has happened as as of now that Trump has done that equals that. But what he has done in terms of dismantling democracy ultimately could be way worse than that. So that’s the reaction but you’re right
HOOVER: So you’re saying apples to apples, Was Bush worse than Trump right to date up today. Is Bush worse than Trump
REINER: as a human being no. In terms of public policy and where we end the effects of that public policy I would say no. No, that Trump is not as bad as Bush
HOOVER: As you look to 2020. What gives you hope
REINER: what gives me hope is that is 2018 what we saw happen in 2018 was. The biggest turnout we’ve had for Democrats and the biggest margin of victory of any midterm in a repudiation of Donald Trump. And I’m hoping that we can ride that to the next step in 2020 because two things I think need to happen. One he has to be defeated by a large margin not just by 3 million votes but by 9 10 whatever it is. A lot of votes and a big electoral win. And then we have to see him held accountable in some way other than the ballot box. If it is determined that he that he committed crimes. I’d like to see him convicted because if that doesn’t happen if, it basically paves the way for anybody to take stuff from foreign governments, hostile foreign governments to line your pockets to do whatever it is you want and we don’t want that in the president. you can even argue– this is way beyond Watergate
HOOVER: Do you ever get accused of Trump derangement syndrome.
REINER: What being deranged.
HOOVER; you have tweeted more than a thousand times
REINER: a lot of tweets against Trump
HOOVER: I believe about Donald Trump.
REINER: Yeah
HOOVER: Yeah. do you think you’ve changed anybody’s mind.
REINER: Who knows.I don’t believe I have changed many people’s minds but what you do is you keep the people who are going to be engaged engaged to get out there and vote. It’s making sure that those people are energized to get out and fight.
HOOVER: You’ve got to energize those people and you’ve got to energize some Archie Bunker’s that didn’t– that voted for Obama.
REINER: Yes. And That’s why I support Joe Biden is because. He will appeal to a lot of white working class voters in those Rust Belt states. He’s from Pennsylvania. He knows, he comes from that background. Does that mean they’ll all? No but he can peel away enough around the edges to be able to make a difference.
HOOVER: Well these are early days in the presidential election
REINER: they are And he may not make it. I think he’ll have a much tougher time getting through the primary than he will winning against Trump.
HOOVER: Rob Reiner. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being on firing line
REINER: Thanks for having me. Thanks.