Landscaping and Your Health

harrise | July 12, 2017

From our partners at WLIW: Dr. Lucy Weinstein, Prof. of Preventative Medicine at SUNY Stony Brook and co-chair of a NY Chapter of the Environmental Health Committee at the American Academy of Pediatrics and Bonnie Sager, co-founder of “Citizens Appeal for Leaf Blower Moderation” discuss the harmful effects of landscaping machinery as part of our ongoing series of reports, Peril and Promise: The Challenge of Climate Change.

TRANSCRIPT

♪♪

>> Lead funding for

"Peril & Promise" is provided

by Dr. P. Roy Vagelos

and Diana T. Vagelos.

Major support is provided

by the Marc Haas Foundation.

>> Hello, and thanks

for joining us.

I'm Jim Paymar with the

"Long Island Business Report."

Gas leaf-blowers -- they seem

to be everywhere on Long Island.

Landscapers fan out by

the thousands every day,

blowing pollutants into the air

we breathe,

which poses health problems,

such as respiratory disorders,

heart disease, and hearing loss.

The hardest hit?

The landscapers themselves.

How serious is the problem,

and are there any alternatives?

"Peril & Promise"

is an ongoing series of reports

on the human impact of and

solutions for climate change.

As part of that series,

we are taking a look

at the harmful effects

of gas leaf-blowers,

also known as GLBs.

Joining me to discuss this

is Bonnie Sager,

co-founder of Citizens Appeal

for Leafblower Moderation,

or CALM,

and Dr. Lucy Weinstein,

co-chair of a New York chapter

of the Environmental Health

Committee at the American

Academy of Pediatrics

and a professor

of preventative medicine

at SUNY Stony Brook.

Bonnie and Lucy, thank you

so much for being with us.

>> Oh, thank you.

>> Let's start off

with the health problems.

How serious -- I mean,

when these guys come around

my neighborhood,

which is, like, every day

and six days a week...

>> Right.

Oh, sometimes seven. Exactly.

>> ...they blow my ears out.

I try and get away.

I drive away, I walk away,

I get on my bike and leave.

>> Yeah, as do I,

but it's amazing how many people

don't realize

that it's not just the noise,

but there are a lot

of other health issues that come

with these leaf-blowers --

things you don't see.

When these machines,

which are something

called two-stroke engines,

which means a lot -- 30% -- of

the gas doesn't even get used

in the process,

gets spewed forth

as the leaf-blower is used.

In that mix, that toxic mix, are

compounds, organic compounds,

that are quite harmful,

increase the risk of asthma,

allergies, heart disease,

hypertension.

Now they've actually linked it

to an increased risk

of dementia.

That was a new study.

>> Really?

>> It was really kind of scary.

It's not just the workers.

And of course noise, which we'll

talk about in a little while...

>> Maybe that explains

my memory loss.

>> Yeah, exactly.

I don't remember what you

just said, but...

And it's not just the workers,

of course,

but they are at great risk.

But small children,

young children,

who are closer to the ground --

they breathe at a faster rate,

so they're getting

more of these little things.

There's also particulates.

These are tiny,

tiny things that we don't see.

See, that's the thing people

don't realize,

because they don't see it.

>> So, Bonnie, these things

are really super powerful.

I mean, you know, you hear them,

and they're blowing hard

and strong.

What are they actually

pumping out of our grass

into the atmosphere?

What do we see?

Fungus and...?

>> Yeah, they're blowing up

fine particulate matter,

and that can contain

rodent feces.

It aerosolizes pesticides,

fertilizers, brake dust,

tire remnants,

all sorts of things --

mold spores.

Pollen is spread

throughout a neighborhood.

So it's very deleterious

for the worker,

who's constantly breathing this,

as well as for the neighborhoods

in which they're conducting

their businesses.

>> And there doesn't seem to be

any officialdom in terms

of protecting these workers.

I mean, you see them with these

huge packs on their backs

for 8, 10 hours a day.

None of them

are wearing goggles.

Very few of them are wearing

any kind of ear protection.

No one's doing anything

about this to help them?

>> Actually, they're not covered

by OSHA,

so they can't be forced

to wear certain

personal protective equipment.

There is a social-justice issue

to this aspect of work.

They put these machines

on their backs,

they vibrate all day.

Some of them suffer

from what's called

Vibration Sickness Syndrome.

Many of them lose their hearing

and get tinnitus,

which is a ringing in the ear.

They're also breathing volatile

organic compounds all day,

which can lead to lung cancer,

bladder cancer,

increased risk of breast cancer.

They're exposed to particulate

matter continuously.

And people, for some reason --

It's almost like the nail

industry, when they expose

the nail workers...

>> The nail polish.

>> In salons, yeah.

They're exposed to chemicals,

toxic chemicals,

many hours a day,

and they're not paid high wages.

So the landscape industry

is guilty

of very much the same thing.

>> What, from a medical --

>> It's interesting.

>> Yeah, go ahead.

>> I should just mention that,

if you look at the brochures,

the pamphlets,

instructional materials

that come with this equipment,

it all says that the workers

should be using this equipment,

and they're not.

And, of course, particularly

if they're illegal immigrants,

they're afraid to say anything

because they're afraid

to speak up.

>> From a medical perspective,

I mean, what do you see most

in terms of...?

>> Well, asthma, lung disease.

The most at risk

are the workers, the elderly,

anybody with existing heart

disease or lung disease,

and young children.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> The cost of asthma

is astronomical.

Of course, it's not

the only risk factor for asthma.

We're aware of that.

But it's a big one.

Any time there's increased

air pollution --

Oh, I should mention

some of the compounds that you

mentioned that are spewed forth,

combined -- particularly

in the summertime -- with heat,

they combine with the sunlight

to form ground-level ozone,

which is a carcinogen

and an irritant.

And so, young children

especially,

they're the ones that are out

playing more in the summertime.

And, of course, the workers,

they're breathing more of it.

So $1.3 billion is the estimated

cost -- just the Medicaid

population in New York State

alone for asthma --

just for the asthma -- in direct

and indirect costs.

Think of it.

If a child develops -- or an

adult -- has increased breathing

problems, it's going to mean

they have to go

to the emergency department

or their doctor.

It's time off from school,

which affects their learning.

It's lost wages for the parent.

So, it's not just direct

medical costs,

but it's a huge indirect

cost as well.

And that we see a lot of --

particularly the lung disorders.

>> And, Bonnie, isn't there

a big cost in terms of spillage

of gasoline?

I mean, when they fill these

things up, which is multiple

times a day, it doesn't

all go into the equipment.

>> No, it doesn't.

It's estimated that

approximately 4 ounces of

gasoline is spilled every time

a piece of gas equipment is

filled.

And that translates

to over 17 million gallons

of gasoline a year

that's spilled.

That's more than was

the Exxon Valdez incident.

And what happens is all that

spillage ends up seeping

into the ground.

It goes into our groundwater.

>> Doesn't it evaporate too?

I mean, as it hits the ground?

>> Some of it evaporates,

but a lot of it ends up

in the groundwater.

>> I see.

But there are --

there are alternatives.

There are some options

out there.

There are

lithium-powered battery gas --

not gas -- leaf-blowers

that do the same job,

have the same power.

Isn't that correct?

>> Yes, there's commercial-grade

equipment today.

As a matter of fact, the

entire city of South Pasadena

is being maintained with

all quiet,

zero-emission equipment.

So, if an entire city can do it,

certainly a landscaper doing 10,

12 properties a day

can use electric equipment.

It's also very profitable

for them.

They no longer have to deal

with gas engines.

They don't have to do tune-ups.

They don't have to have gas.

They don't have to stop

as the gas station.

They don't have to use oil,

spark plugs, de-greasers,

detergents, and all of that.

The other effect of that

is those bottles

with all this residue in it

end up in our landfill

or our incinerators,

which causes more pollution.

So, all they have to do is

plug in a battery

at the end of the day,

and whatever the kilowatt-hour

of electric costs

is what their overhead is.

>> I see. So what --

>> You should mention the safety

of these lithium batteries,

because people might be afraid.

They hear that word

and they assume that they're --

you know, they catch fire.

>> But these don't?

These are safe. They're safe?

>> No, these are a different

type of chemistry

than hoverboards or cellphones.

They're very safe batteries,

and what they're coming out with

this summer, as a matter of

fact, is, if a cell

in a battery overheats,

the entire battery shuts down.

So they're incredibly safe --

safer than gas equipment.

The other day in California,

in Brentwood,

hundreds of homes were destroyed

because a string-trimmer --

a gas string-trimmer --

overheated

and started a brushfire,

which spread very rapidly.

So you don't have that

with lithium equipment.

It's very safe, it's quiet.

So it's a much better

alternative.

>> It's also been shown

to be effective.

Actually, it was a test

with a grandma --

and this is in California --

a grandmother versus,

actually, battery equipment

and gasoline leaf-blower.

Well, guess who did just

as efficient a job in just

about the equal amount of time?

>> And grandma was using, what,

a rake?

>> Rakes -- rakes and brooms.

And people have forgotten

what did we used to use.

>> We used to use rakes

and brooms.

>> And you know something?

It's actually better for the

environment to leave many of

those leaves.

We say, "Love them and leaf

them," because if you leave the

leaves under some of the bushes,

you have a small-mammal habitat

that you're not destroying.

It actually doesn't...

You're not using as many

pesticides.

You're leaving these

to form mulch.

>> Kind of like a natural

fertilizer of some sort?

>> Yeah, we Long Islanders

are so obsessed

with our gorgeous green lawn,

we don't realize

that it's really not healthy.

>> It must be manicured.

>> Exactly.

So, we're destroying

bird habitats.

You know, and there's a whole

environmental cost as well.

But the efficiency

is the important thing,

and we were just mentioning,

so many landscapers really don't

realize that they could do just

as well --

certainly gain money.

It's cost-effective, but

will also be just as efficient,

and it's really a shame

that they're not aware

of these new alternatives.

>> Well, I've actually gone

around myself --

because I cannot say

that I like gas leaf-blowers --

and I've asked many people

who are using these machines,

"Why don't you switch over

to these lithium-powered?"

"Too expensive."

They don't work as well.

They don't blow as fast.

We'll be here twice as long.

The neighbors -- they don't

want to pay more money

if we're here 15 or 20 minutes

more with a crew.

It's going to cost us,

and we're going to pass

that on to the homeowner."

>> All that's untrue.

They haven't done their

homework.

And there's a lot of misconcepts

out there.

It's true the equipment up-front

cost is about 1/3 more than gas.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But, on a blower,

you can have a break-even point

as soon as nine months,

and after that, you save

approximately $1,900 a year.

Again, you don't have labor

to service the engine,

the motor.

You don't use gas.

You don't use oil.

You don't use spark plugs.

So, it's just the kilowatt-hour

of electric.

So, the same thing

with the mowers,

but the gas leaf-blowers

are the most because

it's a two-stroke engine --

the most heinous

piece of equipment.

So, there's a lot

of misconcepts out there.

Today, commercial-grade

equipment is available,

and, as I said before,

the entire city

of South Pasadena

is being maintained that way,

so obviously a local landscaper

can do several properties.

>> But, more and more

communities

are going down this path.

I mean, it's not just Pasadena.

There are communities --

There was one

in New Jersey recently.

>> Maplewood, New Jersey.

Maplewood, New Jersey,

just passed a summertime ban

for five months.

They did a great deal

of homework and study.

They listened to people.

They listened to all the things

that landscapers said.

"It's going to cost more.

It's going to take us

more time."

And they said,

"We don't want hearsay.

We want proof."

So they did a lot of

investigation, and they got

the scientific facts,

and it was proven that it

doesn't take them longer.

It doesn't cost more.

It actually saves them money.

And therefore, they passed

an ordinance that,

five months out of the year,

they're not allowed to use

gas leaf-blowers in Maplewood,

New Jersey.

>> So they can use them

in the spring and the fall,

when there's, like, a lot of

leaves?

>> There are actually at least

16 towns in Westchester

that have had bans

or restrictions

on leaf-blowers for many years,

and there's one town that,

again, landscapers

were very, very skeptical,

which is understandable.

It's their livelihood.

And they put up a lot of fuss

when the restrictions

went into place,

and the town said,

"Let's wait a year,

and let's see what happens.

Let's revisit the issue."

Well, guess what?

After a year,

they were happy with it.

It wasn't a problem.

They did not lose money.

So, that's really the issue.

>> Only one landscaper

showed up.

>> Oh, yeah?

>> Yeah, one, after there was

such a brouhaha the year before.

>> I used to live in California.

Many, many years ago,

they had a program

where they had people turn

in their two-stroke

gasoline-powered lawnmower.

You know, gave them a rebate so

that they could buy something

that was a little bit more

modernized that didn't pollute

as much.

>> That's exactly what

we're trying to do here.

>> So can't we incentivize?

>> That's what we're

trying to do.

>> We'd love to.

We're trying to.

We've asked Suffolk County.

We've been told that the funding

isn't there.

We are trying to work with some

nonprofits to raise grant money

to do exchange programs.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> We'd love to see that.

>> That's an excellent

suggestion, yeah.

>> What about the manufacturers

themselves?

Is there a way of getting them

to do kind of

a loss-leader situation,

where maybe they take a loss

for a few years,

selling at a competitive rate

with a gas leaf-blower,

and then once they become

more popular,

then they could jump the price?

>> Ooh, what a fantastic idea.

>> Well, we have been in talks

with manufacturers,

and they're willing

if they can have --

They'll reduce their prices,

but we need grant money

to also augment it.

They're not willing to take

the whole burden on themselves.

>> Anyone at the state level

in New York working on this?

>> Well, we're trying.

And, actually, I should mention

the New York and Massachusetts

Medical Societies

have both come out saying

that gasoline lawn equipment

should be restricted

and we should be working with

the government

to increase incentives --

both monetary and others --

to reduce the leaf-blowers.

So, many, many --

You're absolutely right.

Many municipalities, yeah.

>> There's got be

a solution here.

I mean, if the technology exists

that could be competitive,

I mean, and if pricing's the

issue, there's always a way

of dealing with the pricing

issue.

>> Yeah.

Well, what landscapers

also have to realize --

There's a great market here.

Many people, like you

and like Lucy and myself,

we can't stand these things.

More and more people

are complaining about them.

More towns are going to bans

and to restrictions.

So, if the landscaper said,

you know, "Let me investigate

and invest a little bit,

it may cost me a little bit more

up-front, but let me look at my

break-even points and,

over the life of the equipment,

how much money -- thousands

and thousands of dollars --

are going to be saved."

There's a market there.

No one's filling the market.

You know, so we need landscapers

to recognize that.

And the few guys that have

done it in Massachusetts

and other places, they have been

swamped with business.

They can't keep up with business

because the demand is there.

>> So, the homeowner --

>> It's partly a matter

of the education,

and I think we are getting

to that point, as things

become more public --

theNew York Times article

about Maplewood, New Jersey;

some of the town-hall

discussions we've been to;

sustainability conferences

we've been to.

As people are more educated

about it and they become more

vocal, then we're able to do

these things.

But until we have

the landscapers on board,

that's part of the issue,

I think, as they learn that

they're not gonna lose business.

There's the political will.

The politicians in some

of our local communities are

just afraid that the landscapers

are going to be too vocal

and that they'll say

that it's bad for business.

As they become more --

Well, the facts are there.

There's no question.

It's really not even...

You know, there's really

no proven benefit at all

to gasoline leaf-blowers.

>> And it doesn't impact

their business.

>> Yeah.

>> I was just on the phone

the other day with Yonkers,

the city of Yonkers,

which has had a restriction

in place for many years,

and they said the landscapers

are gonna say there's gonna be

an increase in price, they're

gonna scare people that way,

they're gonna say that

it's gonna take them longer.

There have been no reports in

Yonkers -- or many other places.

Sonoma, California, just banned,

last November,

all-year gas blowers --

not just a summer restriction.

>> I'm moving.

>> Yeah, I think we all would.

Good wine, good food, and no

leaf-blowers --

you know, nirvana.

>> What other towns and cities

and regions are banning

these leaf-blowers?

>> Palm Beach just banned --

Anything under an acre property,

they're not allowed to use

gas leaf-blowers.

Newton, Massachusetts, just got

a summertime ban.

As we've mentioned, Maplewood,

New Jersey, has a five-month

summertime ban now.

There's 16 towns in Westchester.

There are other towns

in Westchester.

Larchmont is now looking

for a ban, as well

as Bedford and Chappaqua.

We have towns all over

Long Island

that are interested.

We have advocates

trying to get --

>> We went to North Hempstead,

and -- I'm sorry,

town of Oyster Bay.

>> Town of Oyster Bay.

>> We went and spoke with --

They're looking into it,

as well.

>> And school districts?

They're trying to prohibit this.

>> Yeah, it turns out children

are...

Well, I'm a pediatrician,

so of course I'm --

that's the focus of my interest,

but they're just so much more

susceptible, and they've shown

that the noise produced

by these leaf-blowers --

The kind of noise it produces

can actually -- It's a

low frequency that can go

through walls and windows,

and it impacts the children's

cognitive abilities.

There was a study

in New York City a little while

ago that the children in a

classroom next to an elevated

train -- that's the

New York City subway train

tracks -- did worse on

standardized tests than children

in a more quiet classroom.

And then, when they mitigated

that -- New York City

actually muffled the noise,

they did something

with the trains to make it...

And they did better.

So, there were districts --

Harborfields has put out on

their website...

>> They put some information.

Harvard University just went

to all electric equipment.

One, they wanted to reduce

their carbon footprint.

Lawn and garden equipment

accounts for about 10%

of all the air pollution

in this country.

>> 10%?

>> 10%.

>> 10 to 15%, yeah.

>> And in conditions like

in Long Island suburbs,

it's even greater.

>> Uh-huh.

>> So people don't recognize

the amount of pollution

that it contributes to.

And Harvard went -- One, they

wanted to reduce their carbon

footprint, but also the

complaints from students

about interruption

to the learning process.

And we've heard that

from Stony Brook University

and from other universities,

also, that are looking

to go to electric equipment

because of the disruption.

And noise is very,

very insidious.

You know, our neighborhoods have

turned into industrial zones.

You have these caravans

of trucks come in

with commercial-grade equipment,

and, as soon as one comes and

leaves, another one pulls up.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> You work from home --

I do a certain amount of work

from home, as does Lucy.

We hear all the time

from lawyers,

people that do consulting work,

have small children at home,

night workers -- They have

to sleep during the day,

and they're constantly woken

or bothered because,

as Lucy said, the noise,

that low frequency, comes right

through your windows and walls.

>> It's ear-piercing.

>> It is.

>> So many people think of it

as just an annoyance, which is

why we're trying to educate them

that, no, it's a health hazard.

Noise increases stress levels,

increased cortisol levels.

They've actually shown it

contributes

to high blood pressure,

to cardiovascular disease.

This is just noise.

It's not just an annoyance.

It really is a health risk.

>> How? How does it do that?

>> Well, again,

it's a hormone thing.

Cortisol levels increase.

It changes probably

through the cortisol pathway.

Insulin resistance as well.

So there are many metabolic

changes that will occur

when that piercing noise

comes into our body.

It's not just a mental...

You know, it's a physiologic

response.

>> And you're an optometrist.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Yeah, Dr. Bonnie.

>> [ Chuckles ] Dr. Bonnie.

And you've seen a lot of people

who've come in

with eye injuries.

>> Eye injuries, yeah.

They don't wear the proper

protective equipment.

They don't wear safety eyewear.

And you have an air jet

that's blowing

at over 200 miles an hour,

kicking up all sorts of pebbles,

twigs, debris.

That impacts an eye.

One, you could get anything

from a conjunctivitis

to a penetrating injury

where you actually lose the eye.

>> Mm-hmm.

And you've seen this?

>> Yeah, and these poor workers

generally, as you said,

so many of them do not wear

protective equipment.

Occasionally, you know,

you sometimes see them wear

hearing protection,

but very rare.

>> Is anyone looking out

for these guys?

Because, I mean, you know...

>> They're afraid to go...

You know, I tried to get

information.

We tried looking at medical

clinics that will treat some

of the immigrant populations,

and we really weren't able

to get through to them.

>> I mean, I can't imagine...

>> I know. Those poor guys.

>> ...sitting there with --

8, 10 hours a day,

every single day.

>> Oh, new study out from

the Centers for Disease Control

in terms of hearing loss --

particularly these workers,

but also young adults

and late adolescents.

There's a lot more hearing loss

than we ever, ever expected.

>> Uh-huh. Okay.

>> No question.

And then, of course, eventually,

hearing loss.

The problem is, when you try

to put a dollar value on it

or try to prove

that it's from the leaf-blowers,

it's very difficult,

because there are other

contributing factors.

>> Well, sure.

There's lots of noise

everywhere.

>> But there's no question

that this is a great part of it.

>> And the decibel level

has been shown

that it's way above what OSHA,

NIOSH, and the EPA recommend

at the ear of the worker,

as well as someone at least

50 feet away.

>> I don't know if anybody knows

what NIOSH is.

National Institution of

Occupational Safety and Health.

>> [ Chuckles ]

>> Yeah, sorry, yeah.

>> Thank you, thank you.

>> We can...

>> Have we found anyone out

there with the political will,

the clout, to make some changes

so that we can --

>> California.

We should go there.

>> Okay, well, we're not in

California.

>> Well, here on Long Island,

we're beginning

to make some inroads.

We gave a presentation to

the Department of Public Works,

and they got it immediately.

>> It was Suffolk County.

>> Suffolk County.

We went before

the Suffolk County Legislature,

and they unanimously voted

to allow a study for 120 days

of the efficacy of switching

to battery equipment.

So Huntington --

the township of Huntington --

is beginning to make

a transition for Heckscher Park

as well as Town Hall property

to become what's called

an AGZA-certified green zone.

That means the space

will be maintained with

zero-emission, quiet equipment.

Southampton is opening

the East Quogue Park

in the next month,

which will also be

an AGZA-certified green zone.

So, there's some dialogue

going on.

We're in talks with Oyster Bay,

with North Hempstead,

with Huntington,

with Brookhaven.

There's a councilwoman out in

Brookhaven that's interested in

getting some legislation passed.

>> What about educating

the landscape ownerships?

>> Yeah, that's what we really

need to do a better job.

>> How do you approach them?

Because I don't think

that there's any organization,

like, where they have meetings.

>> There are. There are.

There's landscaper

organizations, and so far,

they're really against it.

I don't think they know

or have the information.

>> Yeah, there's the

Nassau-Suffolk

Landscape Association,

and we have met with them.

They're very resistant

to change.

You know, "Don't tell me

what to do."

And we're not trying

to tell them what to do.

We're just trying to say,

"There's a better way.

When you come into

our neighborhoods,

we feel you, as any industry,

has a responsibility

not to pollute,

not to cause health issues

for your workers

as well as for the customers

that you're servicing."

So, today, because there are

viable alternatives,

we're trying to educate them,

but, like anything,

people are resistant to change.

>> But I do not know one person

who likes the sound

of these things...

>> [ Chuckles ] Exactly right.

>> ...or what they do.

I have never met anyone --

except perhaps the landscapers

themselves, who are doing it

for profit.

>> Oh, young kids -- I'm sorry,

young children -- they do.

I was horrified to see one of

the toys that was recently being

offered to young children --

these power equipment.

>> Oh, get out!

>> Yeah, really.

Oh, please.

>> Why? Where?

Who thought of that?

>> Yeah, it's a good question.

Good question, yeah, yeah.

>> So, what do you

see down the line?

I mean, do you see this becoming

a grassroots movement

across the country?

Do you see Long Island

taking the initiative?

I mean, California obviously is

at the forefront.

>> Yeah, California

is always at the forefront.

>> Massachusetts is doing

pretty well, too.

>> Massachusetts has

some restrictions.

I think what's happening is,

the technology is changing.

Just like more and more electric

cars are getting better --

People now recognize the name

"Tesla," they know what

a lithium battery is, there are

more charging stations.

So I think it's going to become

an evolution.

Eventually, probably,

gas equipment will be phased out

as the technology improves,

and a lot of the misconceptions

about batteries and this

equipment are dispelled.

Also, it takes one or two

landscapers to start this type

of a business, and when they do

and the other landscapers

see how well they're doing,

they're filling a market void,

then you're gonna see followers.

>> Well, and you would think

that people who live

in more luxurious areas,

like the Hamptons,

who don't want this noise at all

when they come out there

for their peaceful retreat

in their $90 million mansion,

they wouldn't mind paying

a little bit more for the quiet.

>> Right, but they shouldn't

have to pay more.

But you're right.

You would hope that...

>> But regardless, because --

>> Actually, there's a group

of...two women together,

who are in their 60s,

who actually are -- they're

called the Real Quiet Mowers,

or Real Quiet Landscaping,

who are actually doing, out

in the Hamptons, landscaping

with just the non-power

equipment -- you know, the old

reel mowers.

But, yeah, it's happening.

It's just much more slowly

than we wish,

considering that all these

health risks and environmental

risks are there.

It's really frustrating.

>> You know what it is?

I think, also, it's kind of

counterintuitive.

People can't believe

that this little thing

that you wear on your back

can be so highly polluting

and cause such health problems.

So it's like, "Oh, really?"

It's counterintuitive, but it

really is, and the facts are

there and the health statistics

are there.

>> Whenever it's invisible,

people -- Those particles

and the pollution,

you don't see it.

>> Yeah, you see it!

I saw it.

>> Well, you see the dust.

Not all the time.

>> It's like secondhand smoke.

You know, it's something that's

put out into the atmosphere

without your permission

or my permission or Lucy's,

and yet we have to suffer

the consequences of it,

which could be cancer,

heart disease,

high blood pressure.

So, really, is it worth it,

especially in summer months,

when what are you doing?

There are no leaves.

You're moving grass clippings

from one neighbor's property

to another, into the street,

where nitrogen-rich grass

clippings -- which are

full of fertilizer --

end up in the storm drainage,

out to the Long Island Sound

and Great South Bay, and cause

more of the algae bloom.

>> Right.

>> And what happens is,

when they air-blow these lawns,

they're killing good soil

microbes; blowing away precious

topsoil, mulch; killing,

as Lucy had said prior,

small-animal habitats.

So what happens is that the soil

becomes depleted

because the good soil microbes

are just obliterated.

When you have it rain,

the water cannot be absorbed

into the soil anymore.

You get runoff.

You get flooding, which causes