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>> Lead funding for

Peril & Promise

is provided by

Dr. P. Roy Vagelos and

Diana T. Vagelos.

Major support is provided by the

Marc Haas Foundation.

>> Hello.

And thank you for joining us.

I'm Jim Paymar with the

"Long Island Business Report."

Agriculture has always been a

critical industry on

Long Island.

As of the last census, there

were over 650 farms on

Long Island, with over 23,000

acres of cropland under

cultivation.

Today more farms are turning

toward sustainable agriculture,

which encourages farming

practices that protect public

health.

Peril & Promise is an ongoing

series of reports on the human

impact of and solutions for

climate change.

As part of that series, we're

taking a look at sustainable

agriculture on Long Island.

And here to talk about this is

Rob Carpenter, administrative

director of the

Long Island Farm Bureau, and

Bob Nolan of Deer Run Farm, a

fourth-generation farmer.

Rob and Bob, thank you so much

for being with us.

I'm gonna probably screw that

"Rob and Bob" thing up at some

point.

[ Laughter ]

>> Thank you for having us.

>> But your family has been

farming forever.

You started out in Queens, you

moved to the middle of the

island, and now you're out east.

>> Yep.

>> Why farming?

>> Well, it's in my blood,

basically.

I can still remember growing up

on the farm, waking up as a 2-

or 3-year-old to the roar of a

tractor.

I'd run to the window and see my

uncle plowing the ground, and I

got so excited.

And I think it's in your blood

if you're a farmer.

You either have it or you don't

have it.

>> Now, what do you grow?

What do you grow?

>> Well, I grow all kinds of

different leafy greens --

lettuce, spinach, cabbage,

arugula, a lot of the herbs,

beets, carrots.

I try to have a wide, diverse

variety for the road stand and

for other road stands out east.

>> And, Rob, a lot of people,

especially people who live in

Nassau County, who are

surrounded by just urbanization,

they don't realize that

agriculture is a significant

aspect of Long Island.

Of 60 counties, we're number 3

agriculturally?

Is that possible?

>> That is correct.

>> How is that possible?

>> The high value of crops that

farmers are required to grow in

order to be able to continue

economically forces them to

produce these crops and market

and sell them for different

things such as food and/or

fiber -- nurseries, greenhouses,

wine, horses, and fruits and

vegetables.

>> Okay.

Yeah, but wine industry's

growing.

I like that.

>> Absolutely.

>> Making some good reds out

there and whites.

>> And, additionally, with the

governor's proposals for the

craft-beverage industry, we're

also seeing a prevalence of farm

breweries and cideries and

distilleries on Long Island.

>> Let's turn to sustainable

agriculture.

What does that actually mean in

your view?

>> So, to us, sustainable

agriculture is the ability for

farmers to be able to continue

to farm both environmentally and

economically.

If a farmer's not going to be

able to make money or to

continue to be able to use the

land in the future, there's not

really an ability for them to

continue going forward in the

future.

>> And, Bob, this doesn't mean

that you're not using any kind

of fertilizers or chemicals,

pesticides.

You're still using some of that.

It's not totally organic

farming, correct?

>> No, it's not organic farming.

It's a mix of both, actually.

You know, on my farm, I use

compost to help rebuild the

soil.

I use cover crops.

And we've been farming the land

since 1953, and the production's

never been better.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So people say, "Well, you

farm, you burn it out, you plow

it."

No, but if you put back in

compost, cover crops, if you

take care of the soil, you can

farm forever.

>> And tell me what a cover crop

is.

>> Cover crop would be like

planting grass at the end of the

year.

It's got a good root system.

It basically holds all the

fertilizer from leaching away,

and the fertilizer remains in

the grass.

And then, in the spring, you

plow it down, and it adds the

fertilizer back into the ground.

It prevents it from leaching

into the groundwater or running

off.

>> I see.

>> So it's a good cultural

practice.

>> So, when you define

sustainable agriculture, what

does that mean to you?

>> Well, it's obviously

physically sustaining it, being

able to grow a crop, but then

also economically sustainable to

be able to make a living on

Long Island and stay in

business.

>> And is that a tough thing to

do?

>> It is tough, but I have to

say the people on Long Island

have been great buying local,

supporting their local farmers.

And if people like farms, that's

the best thing they can do, is

support the local farmers.

>> And, Rob, what about farming

in general?

Are we seeing a growth or a

diminishment in the level of

farming on Long Island?

>> So, for the last 20 to 30

years, the amount of acreage has

been relatively steady.

However, we are seeing a shift

in crops.

Back in the '50s, '60s, and

'70s, potatoes, vegetables, some

small fruits were the norm.

Today we're seeing a little bit

of a shift because of, again,

economic factors that allow

farmers to go into nursery

crops, wineries, some of the

more higher-value crops that

they need in order to be able to

sustain themselves.

>> What about the pressure to

preserve land?

Because, you know, Long Island

has been growing for a long,

long time, and you see more and

more development every time you

drive out east.

Are you able to preserve the

land?

>> Yes, in Suffolk County, in

1974, was the first county in

the United States to come up

with what's called a

Farmland Preservation Program.

And that's where a government

entity or municipality works to

buy the development rights off

the land, essentially leaving

the soils that the farmer still

owns to be able to continue to

farm.

And that allows the land in

perpetuity to stay in

agriculture.

>> And, Bob, how much land do

you need to kind of keep your

farm working and being

productive and profitable?

>> Okay, well, I have a 30-acre

farm, but I do what's called

"double crop" or "triple crop"

because my crops grow

short-season.

A lot of them are done in like

two months, so I can get two

crops in one year on the same

ground.

So, technically, I'm farming

like 60 acres.

But there's a wide array of --

People have 5 acres up to 500

acres out east, depending on

what you grow.

>> Is urbanization kind of

encroaching on you?

>> Well, actually, where I am,

in the hamlet of Brookhaven, I'm

very lucky.

My farm is preserved.

It's in the Farmland program.

The county owns some open space

around me, so I don't have the

pressure of development, which

is kind of good.

You know, you don't have to deal

with the pressure of, "Oh, is

somebody gonna want to come and

buy the farm and offer me lots

of money?"

It's all farming all the time

for me, so takes that out of the

picture.

>> And when we talk about

"sustainable farming" versus

"organic farming," I mean, does

organic farming use no

chemicals, no pesticides, no

fertilizers?

>> They use fertilizers.

They spray, as well, but they

just use different materials.

You know, there's a certain

criteria that they have to meet,

just like there's a certain

criteria that we use when we

grow conventionally.

But the newer materials that are

available now for us are so safe

and easy to use and very

effective.

I mean, it's made farming much

more economical for us.

>> But there's no pollution

seeping into the groundwater as

a result of --

>> Much, much less, I think,

with the best-management

practice that we're using with

Cornell University helping us

out -- timing, using what's

called IPM, integrated pest

management.

You go out, and you scout your

field, and you wait for a

threshold of, say, pests, and if

it's below that threshold, you

don't spray.

If it'sabove that threshold,

then you spray.

So you're actually using less

material nowadays, and the

materials are much safer.

>> Rob, what about the future of

farming in Suffolk County?

Do you see growth?

I mean, I've seen a number of

wineries open up over the last

decade, so that's become a big

thing, and the Europeans have

kind of moved into New York turf

[Chuckles] because they see it

as kind of a lucrative business

proposition.

Do you see more growth of

wineries, and would that be

taking away cropland?

>> So, I think that there is a

new generation of farmers coming

in to complement the existing

farmers we have, and these

farmers are doing a lot of niche

cropping.

So, for example, as Bob said,

they might be five acres growing

a specialty type of chicken or a

specialty type of crop to be

able to sustain that high-value

yield that they need.

The future of agriculture is a

little bit concerning to us

because of the high pressures

that are on farmers both from

regulation and the neighbors

that come out because they want

to see the viewshed of the farms

and live next to a farm, but

they don't want the problems

that might be associated, such

as dust or noise or some of

those issues.

>> Well, you can't have it all,

can you?

>> That's exactly correct.

>> [ Laughs ]

Bob, what about farm-to-table?

That's become a big thing.

You work with a lot of

restaurants out east or in

New York City for example,

bringing your product to them?

>> I think some of my purveyors

who buy from me deal with a lot

of restaurants, so they're

interested in buying the local

product, and they promote the

local product at their

restaurant.

So it is a big movement, and it

is a good movement.

You know, anything to buy local

produce helps us.

>> Well, tell me about climate

change.

Has that impacted you at all?

Are things getting hotter,

wetter, more wind?

I mean, we've had some major

storms here like Sandy.

>> Yeah.

It seems to me like the events,

when they happen, are more

severe.

I also notice that the falls

tend to be warmer for whatever

reason.

You know, it used to be, the end

of October, it'd be freezing out

here.

Now, in November, you could farm

like right up to Thanksgiving or

even past Thanksgiving some

years.

>> Rob, am I using the right

term, hydroponic farming?

>> For...

>> When you grow things in

greenhouses so to speak.

>> That is correct -- within

water.

>> Within water.

>> Correct.

>> Are we doing that on the

East End?

>> Yes.

>> We are.

>> So there are some greenhouses

that actually grow lettuce and

some vegetable crops

hydroponically in the winter

months, in their off-season,

growing lettuce and marketing

that as basically

Long Island-grown within the

greenhouse world.

And they're also growing other

types of crops during the

summertime, peppers and other

things.

>> Tomatoes.

>> Tomatoes within greenhouses.

So that is part of what we see

as a possibility in the future,

growing underneath glass for

food production.

>> I see.

So keeping it going all year

'round, right.

'Cause I just came back from

Iceland, and they were growing

tomatoes there, and nothing

grows there.

It's all lava, and it's very

cold.

>> [ Laughs ]

>> Bob, new trends to keep...

more safety in terms of any kind

of pollution, any kind of

seepage into groundwater?

Are there new scientific

methodologies?

You mentioned Cornell a moment

ago.

>> Cornell University has been

very good helping us.

They have a product now called

slow-release nitrogen.

You know, there is an issue with

certain areas with nitrogen in

the water and the bays, and

slow-release nitrogen kind of

prevents that because it

releases very slow and, as it

releases, the plant can use it.

Instead of it being all

available at one time, like 10%

is available and then 20%, and,

as it releases, the plant uses

it.

So there's no excess to run off

or go in the groundwater, so

that's been a huge help for the

vegetable farmers.

>> Anything else happening on

the sustainability front?

>> Well, we've been trying to do

less tillage to prevent erosion,

using what's zone tillage

instead of -- Years ago, you

would plow the whole ground, you

know, called moldboard plowing.

Now they just take and work a

little section and leave the

grass there, and they plant in

between where you just work that

little section, which reduces

erosion and stuff like that.

>> I see.

>> So less tillage, minimum

tillage, and it prevents

erosion, and it's a good thing.

>> Is Suffolk County supportive

of agriculture?

I mean, do you find that the

government officials say, you

know, "Farming is a very

important aspect of our lives,

and we want to keep it here"?

>> Absolutely.

The current County Executive,

Steve Bellone, and his staff

have been tremendously

supportive of the agriculture

industry.

And we're very grateful to them

for that, particularly with the

Farmland Preservation Program

and regulations that we need to

continue to be able to farm.

>> And what do you see in terms

of new developments and

sustainability?

>> So, a little while ago, we

talked about organic farming,

and one of the things that

organic farmers believe in is

something calling soil health.

They believe that that's the

strength of where the plant

derives its resistance and its

strength from.

I see, over the last number of

years, that conventional farmers

have started adopting some of

the practices that the organic

farmers have been using, as far

as composting and adding

materials to the soils to

strengthen that and help the

plant become stronger.

So that's something that's

relatively new over the last 10

years in Suffolk County that has

been embraced.

>> Do you work with universities

on projects?

>> So, we at the Farm Bureau do

not specifically, but the

farmers do.

Cornell University is the

land-grant college in

New York State, and they have a

tremendous amount of researchers

when it comes to agriculture and

finding better methods and

better products for farmers to

grow.

And we work very closely with

them both in Suffolk County and

in New York State, and we're

very supportive of them.

>> And, Bob, have you found that

you've had to kind of...morph

from one kind of agriculture to

another over time?

>> Yeah.

You know, my uncle would like to

grow, like, three crops.

You know, it's very easy to do.

You put the seed in one time,

and you seed it.

But now we're like up to 23

crops or 24 crops because of the

diversity of the road stands.

That's who I'm marketing

towards.

They come to me, and they buy

all my crops -- lettuce,

cabbage, spinach, the herbs.

So I've been diversifying to try

to, you know, fill the orders

for my customers.

>> What about genetically

modified crops?

Are you into that at all -- the

seeding, the seeds?

>> None of the vegetables that I

grow are GMOs.

In fact, very few vegetables are

GMOs.

You know, that's more like corn

and soybeans and stuff like

that.

The majority of vegetables are

not GMO.

>> Do you trust GMOs? I mean...

>> Yes, I would.

I'm not scared of GMOs or

anything like that.

I think the science is there,

the science backs it up, and,

you know, I'm a science guy.

So...

>> You're a science guy?

>> I'm a science guy.

I believe in science, so I

believe in data.

>> I see.

So, in terms of -- If you could

get a better seed that would

produce a better crop and it was

genetically modified, you

wouldn't have a problem using --

>> I would not have a problem,

because it would be tested.

It's got to be tested through

FDA or whoever would -- EPA,

whoever's got to test it.

And I trust them, so I would not

hesitate to use it, you know, if

I had to.

>> What about some of these

chemicals, though, that are

killing honeybees and killing

other kinds of birds?

Do we see that on the East End

of Long Island?

>> The bee population is

definitely a concern for

agriculture.

We need the pollinators to be

able to pollinate our crops,

such as apples and peaches and

pears and strawberries and so on

and so forth.

So it's a major concern for us,

and we're working to try and

solve some of the problems.

It's more, in my opinion, than

just the chemicals.

There are other diseases that

affect the bee population,

things such as

Colony Collapse Disorder, and

the cold weather also has some

factors to play in that.

>> What does colony collapse

mean?

>> So, colony collapse is an

issue that the bees have where

complete hives die off.

>> For any particular reason?

>> And I'm not certain that they

understand exactly what the

cause of it is, because they

haven't been able to isolate it,

but it is a major problem when

beekeepers lose vast amounts of

hives.

It's a a tremendous disaster to

us.

>> So, how do we protect the

honeybees, and how do we produce

more honeybees?

>> So, that's a question that

the bee industry, the apiary

industry, is actually working on

now.

And being that it's widespread,

we're looking to find funding to

do research for this problem, as

well as some of the other issues

that the bees have.

>> Is this a problem for you,

Bob?

>> Not for the crops that I

grow, but, you know, this is

where Cornell University comes

in to do the research to help

out the farmers with issues like

this.

I mean, they've been pointing to

certain chemicals like

neonicotinoids.

They're saying that that could

possibly be doing it.

But I don't think they've

actually come down with a

concrete answer on that yet.

They're suspecting it yet, but

they can't really pinpoint it.

So, like Rob said, there's other

issues, environmental issues,

out there maybe affecting them.

But Cornell -- you mentioned it

was a land-grant university.

>> Correct.

>> So tell me what that means.

>> So, I believe that every

state in the United States has a

land-grant college.

For example, in New York, it's

Cornell.

In New Jersey, it's

Rutgers University.

And that is the state college.

It's a private college, but

that's the college that does the

agricultural research within

that state.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And what they do is they also

have a system called the

Extension System, and I believe

there's also one of those in

every state.

And the Extension System is an

education system that

disseminates the research that

the colleges do to the general

public and, in our case, the

farmers.

>> Bob, what's the big demand

for what crop these days?

>> You know, [Chuckles] crops

are changing.

Like, this year, I'm growing a

couple different crops.

And I used to grow just regular

kale.

Now I'm growing Tuscan kale, red

kale, I'm growing purple

scallions.

People seem to like their

diversity.

So I'm growing some different

things, and...

>> Well, folks are looking for a

healthier diet overall.

>> Yes, as well.

>> Don't you find that?

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

And that's why buying local,

buying fresh is the way to go.

>> Do you see yourself going

down the organic road at some

point, or is that not realistic?

>> No, it's not realistic the

way -- I only have 30 acres.

A lot of that should be rotated,

crop rotation, you know.

I'm kind of by myself, isolated.

That's why I use compost and

cover crops and stuff like that.

It would be great to rest your

ground, rotate it.

>> Uh-huh.

>> But I don't have that

ability, you know, because I

only have 30 acres, so...

>> Are your kids into this, too?

>> Absolutely.

My son Samuel, he's 25.

>> He's gonna be the next

generation?

>> Oh, he's running the farm

right now so I can be here.

>> [ Laughs ]

>> And my daughter Valerie,

she's 21.

She's running our road stand.

She went to school for business

and came back to the farm.

And both of the kids love the

farm.

They have it in their blood.

It's like I said in the

beginning.

>> But you always hear these

horror stories about how

difficult it is to make it in

farming and how expensive it's

gotten, and it's just become

kind of, you know, burdensome

almost.

>> That's very true.

I'm lucky because I've

diversified.

I have, like, a niche market.

I have a lot of different

outlets who I sell to.

So it's not like I'm growing

just potatoes, and, you know, if

the potato market's great, it's

a great year.

If it's terrible, it's a

terrible year.

>> Yeah.

>> I got a lot of different

crops.

So most times, you know, there's

a nice average where some of

them are doing well, you know.

So you diversify.

>> Yeah.

Rob, tell me about the farm

you're on, the work that you do.

What is it that you hope to

accomplish?

>> So, Farm Bureau, we're

actually celebrating our 100th

year this year in existence, and

we are the advocates for the

agricultural industry on

Long Island and in New York

State with the New York State

Farm Bureau.

And we work to prevent bad

regulations from coming into

existence, and we also promote

agriculture to the general

public and try and promote

freshly grown products and help

out people like Bob to teach the

public, hey, come out and

support our farmers.

We believe that farming is one

of the leading benefits to

something called the tourism

industry.

>> Hmm.

>> People come out, they want to

pick pumpkins in the fall.

They want to sample the wines

and the beers.

They want to enjoy the farm

stands and the fresh produce and

see the farm fields in

production.

So we believe that agriculture

is one of the supporting

industries that go into the

tourist industry on Long Island.

>> What about education?

Is that part of what you do out

there, the Farm Bureau?

>> Absolutely.

Education for how the farmers

grow their crops, in addition to

somewhat a little bit of

publicity about buying local and

supporting local.

>> I see.

>> We've believed in that for

the last 30 years.

As a matter of fact, the

Farm Bureau on Long Island has

come up with our

Grown on Long Island logo that

is used by the farmers as a

branding tool to signify this is

Long Island grown, and therefore

is of exceptional quality.

And if you buy this, you are

supporting local and keeping the

farmers active in agriculture.

>> And are we brewing much beer

out in the East End right now?

Are there local craft breweries?

>> There are local craft

breweries, and I believe we're

up to over 30 at this point.

And this has only been in the

last few years since the

governor has relaxed some of the

stringent regulations on

breweries.

>> Let's switch gears for a

moment and talk about the

federal government.

We have a new administration.

We have a new Secretary of

Agriculture.

Impacts.

What do you think's gonna

happen?

Protections, environmental

regulations being relaxed.

I mean, what do you envision?

>> Well, you know, regulation is

one of the things that is

strangling the farmers right

now, so I --

>> But tell me about it.

>> Well, you know, pesticide

regulations and food safety

regulation stuff.

>> But aren't those things we

should be concerned about?

>> You should be concerned about

them, but there's a limit to

what you can do.

In my mind, some of this is

overkill.

I'm all for following

regulations, but sensible

regulations.

And a lot of it is overkill.

It's unnecessary, in my opinion.

You know, so hopefully if we can

roll back those regulations a

little bit to make it so we can

stay in business, basically.

The regulation's a joke in this

space.

>> There needs to be a balance

between regulations and safety

and the farmer's ability to be

able to continue to farm.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> If you make it so difficult

that the farmer is unable to

grow their products or are so

strictly regulated that they

can't, then you're gonna see

farms go out of business, and

that's gonna force us to rely on

other countries to produce our

food for us.

And then it becomes a

Homeland Security issue because

do we know whether these foods

are safely grown, where they're

coming from.

>> We don't know anything about

them.

>> We know very little about it,

whereas if we encourage farm

production in the United States,

then we do have some oversight

and are able to keep an eye on

things.

>> Getting back to this

regulatory environment, so does

someone come out and visit your

farm and see what you're doing?

>> Certain agencies do.

There are certain record keeping

that you have to --

>> Who?

>> Well, the DEC -- the

Department of Environmental

Conservation.

It has been very good working

with the agriculture community.

I mean, they've been great

helping us meet the

requirements, and so I have no

complaints with them.

And then you have the FDA coming

down with the new food safety

regulations, which they've been

very helpful trying to get the

farmers to come into compliance.

>> So no huge arguments, but

just kind of pull it back a

little bit so we can survive?

>> Yeah, sensible regulations

are fine.

I have no problem with

regulations, as long as they're

sensible.

They're not just, you know,

crazy.

>> Give me an idea of what's an

unsensible idea.

>> When we harvest lettuce, we

use knives, right?

>> Yeah.

>> And, you know, you're

supposed to put it in some

solution and mark that you

washed it every day, so you have

to keep a record of that.

You're supposed to keep a record

of the temperature in your

tractor trailer.

You know, when you're in and out

every day, if it's cold, you

know it's cold, you know?

And you know when it's working

and it's not working.

So it's a lot of, you know,

monotonous paperwork is what we

kind of don't agree with.

>> And what you want to do is

you want to grow as much crop

and have a healthy crop that's

marketable out there and not be

spending your time doing this.

>> Yeah, what it comes down to

is we're doing all the practices

we should.

We're just not taking the time

to do all the paperwork 'cause

I'm the farmer, I'm the book

keeper, I'm the carpenter, I'm

everything.

I don't have the money to hire a

food safety person.

>> Right.

>> You know, so I have to do --

I'm the regulations guy.

I have to do it all.

>> And I don't think people

really understand that.

And, Rob, just as a final

question, where do you see

agriculture going in

Suffolk County down the road?

What's the future?

>> So, as I explained, in the

'70s, it was vegetable crops

that transitioned into

greenhouse and nursery crops.

We're at the pinnacle right now

of that, and we're looking for

what the next big industry is

going to be.

And we're not quite certain.

Nothing has emerged yet for

Suffolk County.

It could be growing crops for

pharmaceuticals.

It could be going back into food

production.

It could be aquaculture.

We're not quite there yet to

figure out where the future is.

But we do see a prevalence of

young people wanting to come in

to farm, and that's very

exciting.

And hopefully the future will be

full of agriculture in

Suffolk County for the next few

generations.

>> So not everyone wants to be

where the Empire State Building

is.

>> That is correct.

>> They want to get their hands

in the soil and grow something.

>> And that's why the

Farmland Preservation Program is

so important to keep those soils

available for future generations

to want to come in and farm.

>> And your kids are gonna stay

in it.

>> Absolutely.

>> And most of the kids who work

for other friends of you that

are farmers.

>> If they're on the farm,

they're into it 100%.

>> All right.

>> My kids are definitely into

it.

>> So basically a bright future

and lots of growth ahead for the

farm industry.

>> Absolutely.

And hopefully the consumers will

continue to support the farmers

and buy local.

>> Okay. Sounds good.

Rob, Bob, thanks for being with

us.

I appreciate it.

And that wraps up our

conversation about sustainable

agriculture.

To learn more about

Peril & Promise, please visit

perilandpromise.org.

And for more on the

"Long Island Business Report,"

log on to our website.

And you can also find us on

Facebook and join the

conversation on Twitter.

I'm Jim Paymar.

Thank you for joining us for

this edition of the

"Long Island Business Report."

And we'll see you next time.

♪♪

>> Lead funding for

Peril & Promise is provided by

Dr. P. Roy Vagelos and

Diana T. Vagelos.

Major support is provided by the

Marc Haas Foundation.

♪♪