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ETHAN: The 2022 United Nations Climate Change Conference, or COP27, kicked off on Sunday in Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt, bringing 198 countries together to negotiate the next batch of global climate agreements. First agreement: ban hurricanes! Seriously, why haven’t we banned them yet? With all those nerdy sounding names, hurricanes really oughta be shoved into a locker. Seems pretty straightforward. And in setting the stage for the conference, one word has stood out among the rest: implementation. Executive Secretary of the UN Climate Convention Simon Stiell opened the conference saying, “Today a new era begins — and we begin to do things differently. Paris gave us the agreement. Katowice and Glasgow gave us the plan. Sharm el-Sheik shifts us to implementation.” And if the theme is implementation, then we need to clear a few things up first. 

ETHAN: Good Wednesday morning, I’m Ethan Brown, and this is Tip of the Iceberg, where I will break down some environmental news and then answer a question from our listeners on the air. Submit questions via Patreon, email, or social media. Patron questions go to the front of the line, so sign up at patreon.com/thesweatypenguin.

ETHAN: The Sweaty Penguin is presented by Peril and Promise: a public media initiative from The WNET Group in New York, reporting on the issues and solutions around climate change. You can learn more at pbs.org/perilandpromise.

ETHAN: Look, there is nothing wrong with implementation taking center stage at the largest climate gathering of the year. If Red Hot Chili Peppers wasn’t available, implementation absolutely deserves the gig. It’s very valid though. I get the sense everyone is fed up with pledges for what people are going to do by 2050 or 2070, and if we talk implementation, we’ll finally be talking about the here and now. That said, since that is the theme, there’s a few things we first need to get on the same page about — a few more cynical and one more optimistic.

ETHAN: First, we need to answer the question: implementing what? As Simon Stiell said, Paris gave us the agreement. This was the 2015 conference, and there, the world agreed to limit global warming to 1.5°C above pre industrial times by the end of the century. Who knew Croque Madames made world leaders so agreeable? But then he cites Katowice and Glasgow, sites of the 2018 and 2021 conferences, as “the plan.” And if we look at “the plan” as it stands now, it’s about as well thought out as Charlie’s mailroom conspiracy in It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of thought has gone into it, but based on the targets that countries have submitted for cutting emissions by 2030, the world would still warm by 2.4°C. If you add in longer term pledges and targets, that comes down to 2.1°C. Now, that is noteworthy. We have made real progress in the last seven years to bring that number down. There has been significant progress in the last seven years bringing that number down. But it’s not 1.5. The plan as it stands now would not reach the goal. So that begs the question: are we implementing that plan? Or are we improving on our plan during this implementation process?

ETHAN: But at least there’s an agreed upon goal for global temperature. Take oil and natural gas: the least healthy power couple. Well, aside from marshmallow fluff and Nutella. We’ve been reporting for months on the 195 planned oil and gas projects around the world that would single handedly cause enough emissions to blow past that 1.5°C target. What’s the goal for these two energy sources, which are still needed in most of the world but would also need to be phased down to meet global climate targets? I don’t know because the words “oil” and “natural gas” have yet to make their way into a final agreement from a COP conference. And that’s infuriating, mainly because the word “emphasize” made it into the last agreement NINE TIMES. What is this, a high school English paper? How many times do you need the word “emphasize?” I mean, have you heard of a thesaurus? In all seriousness, I get that it’s a tough topic, but if you can’t write the words “oil” and “natural gas,” what plan are you implementing? A plan to steal the declaration of independence? I know I saw Nicholas Cage in at least one photo with the president.

ETHAN: Somehow, countries have managed to avoid scrutiny for the blatant omission of these words from their agreements. As a journalist and commentator, I hope the media can do their part in pointing out that omission. It’s like opening a pizza place and completely avoiding the word “cheese” on the menu, or creating your first user name as an eighth grader and not putting 6942069 at the end.

ETHAN: Another topic without a stated goal: loss and damage. Loss and damage refers to the damage from climate-fuelled natural disasters and the costs of cleaning them up. Think of the costs of rebuilding after a hurricane or health bills for those who suffered injuries. Now, I incorrectly defined loss and damage misexplained this slightly last week, and I apologize for that. I said loss and damage was a part of adapting to climate change. That was wrong — it isn’t. Adaptation refers to preparations you take in advance of these disasters, not necessarily the cleanup. Loss and damage has made its way prominently onto the agenda for COP27, including what could be a very contentious discussion about money. Yes, even more contentious than when you asked your parents how to open a bank account and they said “come on, it’s tacky to discuss finances.” Since developed countries have reaped the economic benefits of fossil fuels and developing countries are some of the hardest hit by climate change, much of the world feels there ought to be a process where developed countries cover the costs that developing countries now face. Some developed countries are open to it, but most are wary of legal ramifications, backlash from their citizens or politicians, and whether or not their peers would actually follow through. And all that’s fair. It’s a tough issue, and I’ll keep you posted on how those talks go. But again, if this is the implementation conference, we don’t have a loss and damage plan to implement yet. Maybe that will come over these next weeks. I’m just stating the obvious — we’re not fully out of the goal-setting and planning phase when it comes to loss and damage. If this were a middle school dance, we would still be by the punch bowl working up the courage to talk to our crush…I love you Cindy….uh, ANYWAY. 

ETHAN: There’s a long list of other topics I could get into here where either the goal, the plan, or both are missing. Does that mean COP27 can’t be about implementation? No, of course it can. It just means we as observers have to ask the right questions. What are you implementing? What are your goals? Are your plans in line with your goals? Are all the world leaders lizard people? Everyone at COP27 knows current plans are insufficient, oil and gas are hiding in the shadows, loss and damage needs to be further fleshed out, etc. This isn’t shocking. And neither are all the crickets that mysteriously disappeared in Egypt that same week. It’s not like Billie Eilish’s Halloween costume. But I hope everyone realizes that COP27 needs answers to these questions if it is to be a successful implementation conference.

ETHAN: On the flip side, we’re already implementing a lot. In just the last year, we’ve seen the Inflation Reduction Act in the United States, the Fit for 55 package and REPowerEU in the European Union, the Green Transformation programme in Japan, new clean energy targets in China and India, and more. And to top it all off, P Diddy is ’s vegan! Due to these developments, this year’s World Energy Outlook from the International Energy Agency found that the world is on track to see its emissions in the energy sector peak in 2025 and then start to fall. These policies would see coal use fall back within a few years, natural gas use plateau by the end of the decade, and oil demand start to level off in the mid 2030s. Diddy might even start his own line of crispy Vegan snacks – Crunch Diddies!  This is the first time the World Energy Outlook has projected a flattening of the curve for all three fossil fuels.

ETHAN: And that’s just one recent example of good news. Again, I could go on and on. Solar and wind are becoming cheaper, there’s massive investments in the private sector, and marine biologists just found a 6,000 pound sunfish! Come on, who doesn’t love a chonky sunfish? (FISH) But the last thing I would want is for someone to hear “this is the first implementation conference” and think we haven’t implemented anything. Is it enough to meet the 1.5 goal? No. But it’s progress. It’s significant progress. It’s like a 15-day streak on Duo Lingo level progress! It would be pretty depressing if we knew about climate change for several decades and had implemented nothing to this point, and a lot of people I talk to seem to think that’s the case. Even if I haven’t mastered Dothraki conjugation, If we act like this week is the first time the world is discussing the implementation of changes, it might reinforce that misperception and leave people even more overwhelmed. There is a lot more work to do, don’t get me wrong, but if we’re going to criticize the cases where countries haven’t stepped up, we also have to praise the cases where they have. That praise is not just meant for the egos of world leaders; it’s for all of us to be aware of the good news and to keep our hope and optimism alive.

ETHAN: As has been the case with past conferences, I’ve seen a lot of people declare COP27 a bust before it even started. And I get it. When nearly 200 countries with completely different perspectives have two weeks to form agreements about this challenging of an issue, it’s hard to imagine that going well. Even getting them to agree on breakfast must be a challenge. Denmark wants danishes, Australia wants marmite, and the U.S. wants that Chips AHoy cereal that’s basically cookies in a bowl. This year, agreements may even more challenging, with an energy crisis fuelled by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, worsening relations between the world’s two largest emitters in China and the United States, and floods, droughts, and other climate disasters creating a heightened sense of urgency from developing countries who badly need funds to recover. But surprisingly, this process has worked. We have made progress, and it is in everyone’s best interest to continue that progress. That’s why I’m optimistic, or at the very least, not roasting the conference from the get go. If world leaders know there’s a 6,000 pound sunfish out there, there’s no question they’ll work to ensure it has the healthiest ecosystem possible.

SEGMENT 2 

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ETHAN: The Sweaty Penguin is presented by Peril and Promise: a public media initiative from The WNET Group in New York, reporting on the issues and solutions around climate change. You can learn more at pbs.org/perilandpromise.

ETHAN: Welcome back to tip of the iceberg. It’s time for Ask Me Anything where our listeners get a chance to ask me any environmental questions they may have. Submit questions on our Patreon email or social media. Questions from patrons go to the front of the line, so be sure to sign up today at patreon.com/thesweatypenguin. We have a very special treat today. We’ve got one of our listeners on the line, Taylor. Taylor, how are you? 

TAYLOR: Hi, good. 

ETHAN: So you have a question for us? 

TAYLOR: Well, yeah, cuz like, I know, like, the UN conference is coming up. And like, I really, I feel like we have, there’s so many issues with like, climate change, and whatnot. And I feel like, you know, going into these conferences, I feel like people just like, don’t even care anymore. And I feel like as us as a young generation, you know, that we do listen in and we see what, you know, the United Nations does, how can we help, like, you know, instill what they’re saying, like, you know, they can pledge one thing, but like, how can we deliver it? You know, so for like, the, for our children’s children, you come into this world? You know, like, because I feel like our environment is dying?

ETHAN: That’s a great question. I think that these conferences can have a lot of mixed feelings for a lot of people, because on the one hand, you get all the leaders of the world into one room talking about climate change, that’s awesome. But on the other hand, countries don’t have any real enforcement mechanism. They are only accountable to each other through voluntary measures, the UN is not some global governments that can say, Oh, you didn’t live up to your climate pledge, you’re in trouble. They just are a space for people to convene. So when countries make these pledges, when they sign treaties, there’s no binding mechanism, there’s no way to force them to follow through on them. If a country wanted to, they could even leave the UN, though, I wouldn’t see that happening. So in that sense, I think there can be a little bit of pessimism associated with these conferences. And that’s where I think as young people or just as anyone in society, what we can do is keep an eye on what countries pledge, and then make sure that they actually are following through on that. A pledge at a UN conference is not a policy yet. And sometimes, like in the US, for example, you might have the president or someone representing the President go to a conference and make a pledge. But that still has to get through Congress, the Supreme Court, all of our other government bodies as well, that’s true of a lot of other countries. So we want to keep an eye on what they’re pledging. And we also have a role in kind of holding ourselves accountable to say, All right, we pledge this now what exactly are we doing to follow through on that, and I think I don’t know exactly when this will come out, either right before Election Day or after election day. But regardless, that’s obviously an opportunity for people to make their voices heard.

ETHAN: I know activism and protest are very commonly discussed ones. But there’s even other ways. I’m not a big protest person. But I found through doing this podcast or doing writing and journalism, that I was able to have a voice. People can do it just within their own homes, or businesses or whatever. So there’s a lot of ways that you can have a voice in this sort of thing. And looking to these conferences, and what countries pledge is a great kind of grounding point, grounding point for what you might want to say.

TAYLOR: I get that. I totally see that. Because I do feel like, you know, the older generation who goes to the UN, I feel like a lot of times they go and they’re like, like you said, like they make a pledge, and they can really just like be crossing their fingers behind their back like, Nope, just kidding, like not. And it’s really up to us to move forward to get things done. Like I just feel like we’re the ones who care more, because we have more time left on this earth than they do. 

ETHAN: That’s yeah, for sure. I always think it’s interesting because on the one hand, a lot of things like air pollution, and that sort of thing can actually disproportionately affect older people who might have other health conditions. But at the same time with us living here longer, I think we always kind of tend to be communicated to as the ones who it matters for the most. And to me, it matters to everybody. I’m curious to you, knowing that the conference is coming up. How would you kind of rate yourself on a scale from cynical to optimistic?

TAYLOR: I guess I’m kind of like, in the middle. Like, I always feel like, I’m excited to hear, you know, what, you know, their, their, what everyone has to say what they want to do to move forward to, you know, help change. But then I just feel like the follow through is because kind of a let down, you know, I don’t feel like there has been much change, like I feel like from our political leaders, I guess it’s more like, I feel like, we’re, I feel like more of the change of more of like, where I feel optimism and where I feel excitement is, you know, listening to like podcasts that you’re creating, kind of going onto social media kind of connecting with people and young, like environmental groups, you know, activists, I’d be like, that’s more of a, you know, in a doozy, and then for me, you know, and we all kind of get excited when we hear the conference, and then it just kind of like, well, okay, let’s, let’s see if it’s gonna change this year. Let’s see what’s going to happen. 

ETHAN: Yeah, for sure. And something we certainly try to do on our podcast is highlight what all actually is happening, because certainly there has been a lot of climate progress. But sometimes it gets brushed under the rug. We often think of it as like, we’re starting at Square zero. But at this point, we’re really not, we’re well on our way, we just kind of need to pick up the pace. And so I definitely hope that this conference can get some good conversations going and maybe get some more. It’s weird to talk to excitedly about pledges to me, I think, more setting short term goals and things that we can see like in a year or two, how successful it’s been, can be a little more exciting, but regardless, I’d love to see some progress out of this conference. 

ETHAN: Thanks so much for the question, Taylor, and thanks for joining us. 

TAYLOR: Thank you so much for having me.