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ETHAN: No, earthquakes are not caused by climate change. But when a once-in-a-century natural disaster happens. I can’t help but get reflective and the more I pondered the future, the more I found myself thinking about one how Furbies could be government surveillance tools, but to how many climate solutions also happen to be earthquake solutions. Happy Friday. I’m Ethan Brown. And this is tip of the iceberg where I will break down some environmental news and then answer a question from our listeners on the air. submit questions via Patreon email or social media. Patron questions go to the front of the line. So sign up at patreon.com/the Sweaty penguin.
ETHAN: The sweaty penguin is presented by Peril and Promise a public media initiative from The WNET Group in New York reporting on the issues and solutions around climate change. You can learn more at pbs.org/perilandpromise
ETHAN: I’m recording this episode about a week early because as this episode comes out, I’m actually on my first business trip ever. Sadly, it’s not to Washington State to try out the Semin cannon but I’m still convinced I could fit someone make this happen for me. This is exciting too, though. I was selected by the Jerusalem Press Club along with 10 other journalists to travel to Israel this week for the our crowd Global Investors summit and learn about many of the clean energy and clean tech solutions taking place there. I’m really excited to share more about this experience soon.
ETHAN: But in the meantime, we have more important things to talk about Furbies have so many surveillance capability. Oh, no wrong topic. Today, we have to go serious. We are looking at one of the deadliest earthquakes of the century in Turkey and Syria. In the early morning of February 6, a 7.8 magnitude earthquake hit just east of New Dagi turkey. To give you a sense of how huge that is. That’s like more than a 7.7 magnitude earthquake. Isn’t the show so helpful. And usually, earthquakes are followed by a few aftershocks. But this one was followed by over 125 including some big ones clocking in at 6.5 and 7.5 on the Richter scale. And I have to ask at what point are those just considered more earthquakes? That’s like giving birth to triplets and referring to the younger two as after birth? Come on, Audrey. Those are your children. If you want to learn more about earthquakes, or just hear how cringy our audio sounded on the old recorder I found in my parents basement, go check out episode seven of the sweaty penguin on earthquakes. Unfortunately, this episode seven does not feature dream boats like Oscar Isaac or Harrison Ford. But it is a good introduction to earthquakes. Anyway, the point is, these were massive earthquakes. The last time a 7.8 hit Turkey was in 1939. At the time of recording, there have been more than 5700 building collapses in Turkey, more than 75,000 injuries and more than 20,000 deaths, putting this earthquake in the top 10 deadliest earthquakes in the world over the last 20 years.
ETHAN: As a solutions journalist, tragedies like this one are devastating. We’re not perpetual optimists, but we do know how to ask questions. How much of this tragedy was preventable? Where does this community go from here? Will I be able to pull off a joke today about Turkey needing gravy?
ETHAN: How can other communities learn from this tragedy? Well, they prioritize gravy. I’ve lived in Southern California for over a year. And one of the things that concerns me about moving here is that at some point in the next 30 years, we’re virtually guaranteed to get a major earthquake of similar magnitude along the San Andreas Fault. Well that and I’m guaranteed to get approached by 25 pamphlet wielding signs Intelligence per day. And I’m only slightly more scared of the earthquake, but likely can’t do anything about Tom Cruise. We can’t predict or prevent earthquakes. So what can we do in advance of this pending disaster given the current data? When I asked those questions, I kept finding a common thread. Many earthquake solutions also happened to be things we’ve discussed on the podcast before as general climate solutions.
ETHAN: First, let’s look at some ways individuals are told to prepare for earthquakes. Make sure you have proper insurance coverage. Keep essentials like water, non perishable food, a flashlight and a whistle on hand. Don’t let your car run too low on gas or your phone too low on battery, since you may not have access to gas or electricity immediately after, wear pajamas to bed so you don’t end up trapped while you’re naked and embarrass yourself in front of the hot rescue firemen. My back tattoo of all 3400 Muppets is probably best left unseen. And if you do end up trapped in a fallen building and need to call for help, you’re better off banging on a pipe or blowing a whistle. Since if you shout, you’ll often lose your voice and not make enough noise to be heard. Unless of course, you’re my little brother trying to use his inside voice. That’s great advice for earthquakes and worth a review for anyone living in an earthquake prone region. But it’s also good advice for hurricanes or landslides, or many other natural disasters that are worsening because of climate change. The big difference is that weather systems can be tracked a few days in advance, whereas we have no way to forecast earthquakes because they’re below the ground and the ground isn’t see through like water. And it’s like really hard. So that makes it really complicated. But in all seriousness, if you follow these earthquake recommendations, you are simultaneously making yourself and your home more climate resilient.
ETHAN: How about at the community level, many elements of the recovery process apply to earthquakes and many other climate disasters, be at shelter or food distribution efforts or search and rescue or perpetually feeling bad on the other side of the world because you can’t directly help. So you post 20 times on your Instagram story, but then Instagram shadow bans you and they don’t have a support line, so you can’t challenge it. So you start a change.org petition to get unbanned and then they recommend 10 Other petitions. And before you know it, you’re signing a petition to stop a fourth grader in Delaware from taking up the three seater on the school bus with his to LA and you’ve completely lost track of why you weren’t doing this. And since institutions such as the United Nations or the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the United States are often providing similar services regardless of the specific type of disaster. We often see the same shortcomings if we compare one disaster to another.
ETHAN: The New Yorker published a piece last week for example, which included an interview with the Azzam al Ahmad, who was from southern Syria and has lived in Turkey for three years. Though Yeah sounds relationship with his Turkish neighbors wasn’t contentious. It wasn’t close either. So he preferred to spend his time with other Syrians. Partly due to the conflict in the region, the UN has a high presence in ye Zaanse community, so they were quickly setting up tents and food normally reserved for refugees. But in a disaster like this earthquake, there was no way for them to ask whether people were Turkish or Syrian. Obviously, help should not be withheld from people. But when gezonde was seeing refugee tents full of his Turkish neighbors, and had no instructions from anyone on where he was supposed to go. He found himself defeated without shelter or food. Yes on was one of many stories, where institutions were not prepared to provide equal support to everyone affected by the earthquake.
ETHAN: Unjust relief efforts exist in the US to a 2018 study in socius. Found the largest indicator of how a natural disaster would affect someone’s wealth in the United States, for instance, was their race. Black populations hit by natural disasters lost more wealth compared to their black counterparts who did not experience the disaster. White populations who are hit by natural disasters gained wealth as compared to their counterparts who did not experience the disaster. It’s like if two people got hit by an ice cream truck, but one left the scene with a banana split and the other left on a stretcher. However, both had to pick rainbow sprinkles out of all the cracks for weeks after But how is this possible? Well, ice cream trucks go pretty fast. And sometimes they forget to ring the bell. Oh, you mean the disaster wealth gap. For one, there is a huge racial wealth gap in the United States already. And homeowners who have wealth can get an insurance payout and not only rebuild their home, but often rebuild it better and increase their houses value. Maybe replace the stairs with a slide or get a new refrigerator that tells you to have a nice day when you leave the room. Whereas those who don’t have that wealth, can’t rebuild and often lose whatever they did have.
ETHAN: But the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the US makes that disparity worse. For example, after Hurricane Harvey, a survey of 1600 Texans in 24, counties found that 52% of white respondents were able to get the help they needed, as opposed to 46% of Hispanic respondents and 32% of black respondents. And when you’re a federal agency dedicated to disaster recovery is exacerbating existing inequalities with the way they provide relief. That’s a problem. Be it the United States, Turkey or any other country. Addressing injustices in disaster relief, helps communities recover from earthquakes better and build stronger systems to prepare for other climate disasters.
ETHAN: But natural disasters don’t just lead to loss of life, property damage and sweaty penguin scripts that start with let’s review the Coriolis effect. You know, earthquakes actually are influenced by the Coriolis effect, but I refuse to talk about it today. I’m all out of Santa northpole jokes. Something else made worse by natural disasters, though, is actually gender inequality. Studies have found that natural disasters can exacerbate factors that lead people to commit sexual assault, such as poverty, displacement, lack of housing and lack of law enforcement. Disaster shelters rarely have the necessary facilities resource or space for pregnant women. And there are especially high rates of gender based harassment and violence, particularly when they’re dimly lit and overcrowded. In fact, a survey by the National Sexual Violence Resource Center found almost a third of sexual assaults reported during hurricanes Katrina and Rita happened at shelters.
ETHAN: In Turkey, gender inequality is already apparent in the recovery efforts. 40% of women in Turkey have suffered physical and or sexual violence in their lives, according to a study by the Turkish Government. Already, we’ve seen several tweets depicting women in Turkey who were trapped in buildings with their lives on the line. But when either refused to leave without their hijab, or would leave without their hijab and get punished for doing so. I obviously can’t speak for any of the women in that horrifying situation. But in a life or death situation where a building is literally coming down. You think that’s grounds for bending the rules, people should never be pressured into an unsafe decision, or punished for a life saving decision. And again, all these scenarios can come up in both an earthquake and a climate disaster. So by working to rate these injustices, communities become more equal, more climate resilient, and more earthquake resilience.
ETHAN: What about physical damage? Many experts like to toss around the phrase, earthquakes don’t kill people, buildings kill people. And it’s true. The Empire State Building is really, really pointing. If you look at the aftermath of an earthquake, and other disasters, too, you can very often see some building standing, and some buildings collapsed right on the same block. That’s about as clear proof as you can get that buildings can be more Disaster Resilient. In Turkey, they did have building codes with earthquakes in mind. But experts say enforcement of those laws was weak. And as such many builders took shortcuts. Now I’m no architect, but I’m pretty sure one of the main situations where you shouldn’t skirt around the law is when you’re building a building. I mean, doctors don’t glance around and say, Well, I know we should sew up the patient but no one’s looking and we’ve been at this open heart surgery for hours can someone me another beer, but these poorly enforced building codes have led to 1000s of unnecessary collapses. We’ve got the same issue over here in the US after a 6.7 earthquake and Northridge, California in 1994, Los Angeles inspected 200 of their 2000 steel buildings 30 had tilted or sustained cracks to the foundation. Despite these findings, the other 1800 have yet to receive an inspection. And as a new Los Angeles resident, I tried to do my part by going to random apartment complexes and running as fast as I can into the walls to see if they break. But apparently that’s loitering and I’m gonna hurt myself. Seriously, I like show some appreciation.
ETHAN: But the thing is, these inspections don’t just tell us if buildings are earthquake proof or climate proof. Sometimes, the same structural issues that could leave a building prone to collapse can also lead a building to be less energy efficient. After Turkey’s Ismet earthquake in 1999. One of the factories that was subsequently inspected was made of reinforced concrete, but inspectors found some of the walls actually contained hidden Styrofoam. Seriously, imagine biting into a Subway sandwich and Okay, bread lettuce, cheese, and Styrofoam. That’s not just a quick swap that could actually kill me. I mean, I assume it’s safer than their tuna, But stil.
ETHAN: Sure, these shortcuts are risky for earthquakes. But improper building materials or any other building flaws, can make a building less energy efficient. Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning are the leading source of energy consumption within a building. By replacing walls with styrofoam or allowing cracks in the walls. All that heat or AC is actually leaking out of the building. So you keep cranking it up. And then your dad yells at you for laying a finger on the thermostat. But I gotta side with your dad on that one. Not just because he also likes grilling, and I want to be his friend. But because having an H vac system that can’t run efficiently means more money on your energy bill and more carbon emissions. Okay, fine. Your dad didn’t say the last part. But it doesn’t matter because the economics and the environment are one in the same here. Properly inspecting and retrofitting buildings is again, both an earthquake and a climate solution. So now that you know that’s next time you touch the thermostat, prepare for your dad to make a dad joke about how you’re on shaky ground.
ETHAN: And speaking of energy, solar and wind are not just carbon free, but they’re also remarkably resilient to disasters during Hurricane Ian last year, when everyone lost power, the town of Babcock ranch Florida did it. Why? First off their name is Babcock ranch. And I don’t think any hurricane in its right mind could be mean to a town named Babcock. I’m sure Ian really wants to be Babcock’s friend if we’re being honest. But more accurately, Babcock ranch gets its energy from a 680 acre solar farm, which was left relatively unscathed by the historic hurricane. Meanwhile, Miami residents were left fighting for their lives against killer iguana has and Rogue Spring Breakers who still hadn’t left yet. solar panels and wind turbines are constructed with really sturdy materials that actually withstand earthquakes and hurricanes quite well. And I should add that if you have rooftop solar on an earthquake resilient building, you’re even more likely to stay safe and avoid power outages.
ETHAN: On the flip side, not only do fossil fuel based electric grids notoriously failed during natural disasters, but as we’ve talked about in our recent one on the Montney formation, fracking is known to actually create seismic activity if done near fault lines. To be clear, fracking is not a primary cause for earthquakes. But scientists have linked some earthquakes to fracking before. In all fairness, the same charge has been levied against geothermal energy. Both fracking and geothermal require drilling wells and injecting fluid deep into the earth. But geothermal is such a minor player in the clean energy world, that it’s hard to compare that to fracking at this point. That’s not even mentioning the seismic waves caused by babies when 1000s of parents simultaneously park them in bouncy chairs for a cocoa melon marathon.
ETHAN: And last but not least, and maybe this is a small stretch, but every climate solution can be an earthquake solution. No climate change does not cause earthquakes, but it can influence them a little bit. Nothing like hurricanes or wildfires, we’re talking small changes. For example, really Bad rainstorms worsened by climate change can lead to landslides, and a shift in the Earth’s weight distribution like that can trigger earthquakes to happen sooner than they might otherwise, the same can be said of melting glaciers falling into the ocean. And perhaps more prominently, if you have an earthquake at the same time as an extreme weather event, your recovery effort might be hindered. In Turkey, for example, at the same time as the earthquake, there was snow and below freezing temperatures, so it was more difficult to distribute supplies, and people trapped in buildings or stuck outside, were at risk of developing hypothermia. And I think we all know there’s no harder recovery than cold turkey. Sorry, that one was right there I had to. Now it could have been cold and snowy in Turkey for any number of reasons last week, but by creating more days with extreme weather, climate change does make Earthquake Recovery more difficult. As such, any way we mitigate climate change or become more resilient to it could end up helping next time an earthquake hits.
ETHAN: I know a lot of the data I went through there might feel gloomy, but I see it a little differently. We’re not helpless. When it comes to earthquakes, we can prepare ourselves to respond better in the future. If someone tells you your apartment is filthy and gives you directions to a store with cleaning supplies, you don’t feel a sense of doom, you get off your butt and you buy some cleaning supplies. I see this the same way. By educating ourselves individually promoting justice in our institutions and communities inspecting or retrofitting our buildings and making our energy systems clean and efficient. We can both help the climate and become more resilient to earthquakes. Now, don’t worry that’s not an earthquake that’s just cocoa melon.
ETHAN: And now we’ve got a little surprise for you. I always feel bad that we can’t cover more news stories on the sweaty penguin we only get one episode a week we go pretty topic focus. And there’s just so much climate news going on. So we’re starting a new segment and tip of the iceberg. Hopefully, this adds a sort of remedy for this issue until we’re famous and can afford to produce episodes every day. So with that, here is Maddie with a Weekend Update Style segment on the news.
MADDIE: Two weeks ago, Mount Washington set a record for the coldest wind chill ever recorded at minus 108 degrees. And yet, that’s not nearly as bad as it was in LA last week when it was 50 degrees and overcast. I had to wear a jacket for the first time since 2017.
ETHAN: Dolphins have been spotted in the Bronx River. Yes, you heard me correctly. The Bronx River used to be a dumping site for industrial waste. But this is evidence that recent cleanup efforts have been working. And all I can say is yikes which of the dolphins suggested that vacation one dolphin was like you know what Brazil’s getting to tropical and gorgeous. Let’s go somewhere where a chance of being a victim of a violent crime is one and 128. And this just in all the other dolphins are like this is the last time we’re letting Larry plan the family reunion.
MADDIE: Last month, Uganda approved a construction license for a $3.5 billion crude oil pipeline. Beyond the environmental impacts of oil production and a remarkably biodiverse country. The pipeline is set to serve international markets, meaning locals likely won’t see any of the jobs money or energy that this project creates. Imagine your country getting an amazing Economic Opportunity only for you to not see any part of it. It’s like if your mom was like, Hey, kids, we’re going to Disney. And by we I mean me and your father. I literally know Disney adults who do this and it’s like, Do you know how similar your being to Uganda is pipeline right now.
MADDIE: On top of all of that construction on this pipeline means that over 100,000 people are being displaced, and many haven’t received any compensation or new land to live on and cultivate. So really it’s like your mom’s saying Hey kids, we’re going to Disney and by we I mean me and your dad and also we’re replacing you with new kids hope you know at a chimney sweep Bippity boppity by bitch.
MADDIE: To continue the bizarre trend of majestic sea creatures winding up in the tri state area. Several dead whales have been washing up on the New York New Jersey coastline recently, and I know what you New Jersey residents are thinking it’s not humpback whale. It’s Taylor ham, but this is serious. Okay, so stop making jokes. The kicker is local environmental groups clean ocean action and protect our coasts. New Jersey held a press conference blaming the whale deaths on offshore wind turbines, which led a dozen Republican mayor’s to actually try and stop the construction of wind turbines in their communities. Scientists have stressed that there is zero evidence of wind turbines killing whales But I’m sorry, you need a scientist to tell you that how were Wales going to get killed by wind turbines, they can’t fly. But as much as we might want to see these mayors fixate on problems that exist in reality, their agenda doesn’t make sense considering just who these mayors are a bunch of eight year olds who just came back from the Natural History Museum.
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ETHAN: The sweaty penguin is presented by peril and promise a public media initiative from the WNET group in New York reporting on the issues and solutions around climate change. You can learn more at pbs.org/peril and promise
ETHAN: Welcome back to tip of the iceberg. It’s time for Ask Me Anything where our listeners get a chance to ask me any environmental questions they may have submit questions on our Patreon email or social media questions from patrons go to the front of the line. So be sure to sign up today at patreon.com/the Sweaty penguin
ETHAN: now I’m gonna be doing asked me any things off the cuff from now on I do it when listeners call in. So why not do it when we’re reading questions as well. Hopefully this goes all right. So I wanted to I guess there weren’t really any questions in here. But I did a tech talk about the recent doomsday clock. And I got some interesting comments on it.
ETHAN: Let’s see, cactus boy 25 said it’s 90 seconds to midnight because of the war in Ukraine and how the US Germany and many others are sending tanks in Russia seeing it as an act of war. And climate change can get to a don’t look up type scenario not a comment. If things progress the human race is killing itself. Well, comet is the don’t look up type scenario though. Okay, tidal wave. 3000 says I understand it is to spread awareness but no way in hell are we closer to doomsday than the Cuban Missile Crisis? Jason, the Kentucky human says, Well, climate change will make life miserable. But you know, I guess nuclear weapons are pretty worse. A lot of comments kind of comparing climate to nuclear war and talking about whether or not the doomsday clock is an apt metaphor for climate change. And I wanted to bring it up here because I wanted to share my take on this for anyone who is not on tick tock.
ETHAN: So basically, the doomsday clock was originally conceived in 1947, by atomic scientists, as a metaphor for the risk of global nuclear destruction, to provide awareness about the dangers of nuclear weapons. And this year, they just recently moved the clock to 90 seconds to midnight, it was 100 seconds to midnight, and 2022. So this was even worse than this is the worse outlook that they have shown since the founding of the clock and 1947. So this was mainly about nuclear weapons. It’s from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. But they begin including climate change in the calculation in 2007. And in the statement about their decision to say 90 seconds to midnight, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists did cite climate change as a concern. They talked about how the war in Ukraine has, in some ways hampered global climate action. And let me just say off the bat, the 92nd measurement was mainly about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Climate change was not the big headline here, but it was part of it and I had to push back because, yeah, climate change is a really serious problem, but it has no place being part of something called a doomsday clock.
ETHAN: And let me say why before everyone comes after me. So Doomsday, the word itself. Generally we think of the Christian notion of Judgment Day where Are those of that faith believe that God will judge all humanity at the end of the world. But the word Doom goes way back in Old English there was the word D O M with a little accent over the EO, which refer to a judgment or a sentence. Shakespeare, of course, added his spin the lines in, like sonnet 116 Love bears it out even to the edge of doom. So this kind of added finality to the word doom. So today, we might use the words Doom and doomsday pretty casually. But the word Doom itself really gives a sense of destruction reckoning, kind of end of the world scenarios. So if we’re talking about nuclear war, a doomsday clock is, I guess, plausible. I’m not a nuclear expert. All I know is that these nuclear scientists are out unveiling a clock and not going in underground bunkers right now. But crossing the threshold doesn’t necessarily imply Doomsday, but there are experts who say that crossing the nuclear threshold, in a worst case scenario and an extreme case, could plausibly lead to human extinction.
ETHAN: So in that sense, a doomsday clock idea makes some sense. But with climate change, it really doesn’t. Climate change is not some don’t look up esque comment that wax the earth one day and wipes out the human race, we’re talking about extreme weather events or long term trends that happen over time, they’ll change temperature or precipitation, they’ll hit a specific area, each event might be worse than the last And taken together. That’s huge cause for concern. But no one event is strong enough on its own to precipitate human extinction. No one event is doomsday. But a doomsday extinction event is not why we’re concerned about climate change. If the world continues along the 2.6 degrees Celsius trajectory that it’s on now, warming 2.6 degrees Celsius, from pre industrial times, by 2100, we’ll see a lot of catastrophic threats to our food supply or water supplier houses, jobs, coastal cities, island nations economy, health, justice, biodiversity, national security, I could go on, many lives would be lost in that scenario. But humans wouldn’t go extinct. We have plenty of people holding up and even still don’t even know that it gets that far. Certainly the global south would see the worst of it. And that’s a major injustice. They’re the ones who have contributed to climate change the least. But when we’re talking about human extinction, that’s such a different conversation. That is, it’s just not why we care about climate change. It’s not why I do this.
ETHAN: So I think you might argue like, Okay, well, maybe the doomsday clock is imperfect, but at least it’s a helpful metaphor, it raises awareness. We’re talking about it right now. But I don’t think it’s helpful awareness. For one. When we have this much alarmism about climate change, provokes anxiety, it provokes depression, we did our climate anxiety episode about how 59% of millennials and 69% of Gen Z ears are anxious about the future after viewing climate content on social media. And studies link emotions like anxiety and depression, to lower engagement in the climate cause and also just lower personal well being and neither of those are great. So communicating the reality of the situation, that there is no impending climate doomsday. And furthermore, there are climate solutions that are not just great, but happening right now. Yeah, I think that’s a lot more likely to inspire people and get them involved. And secondly, to anyone who says, Oh, I’m not taking climate change seriously enough by not being willing to spread false doom. Well, if we’re talking about some future Doomsday, we’re ignoring the fact that climate change is here right now. This is not some future issue that will affect our children and our grandchildren.
ETHAN: Sure, it gets worse. But in the last year, we saw floods in Pakistan, which submerged a third of the country killed more than 1700 people and cause 30 billion in economic damage. We saw historic drought in the Horn of Africa that displaced 1.5 million people. We saw more wildfires in California. We saw more hurricanes like Ian and Fiona hit in the Caribbean and the Gulf. These are happening now. This is not some future thing. There’s a doomsday and we’re totally happy leading up to it. This is gradual. So I get that this is not some mathematical measurement. It’s a metaphor. And I don’t think anyone is ill intentioned here. I just think that it doesn’t work, climate change and nuclear war are so different, that you can’t lump them under the same thing. And again, even though the nuclear risks of the Russian invasion of Ukraine was the headline here, and concern that people are seeing the word climate and just thinking, Oh, we have 90 seconds to midnight when it comes to climate change. That’s really not true. It’s very serious. And a lot has to get done right now to achieve our International goals. But to say that some doomsday extinction event is pending. Yeah, that’s just not true.
ETHAN: but thanks so much for that dialogue on tik tok. I always appreciate when people comment and share their views. Again this was purely an opinion for me. I mean there’s facts in there but I’m welcome to disagree there so I appreciate that. And thank you to all of you that listened to Tip of the Iceberg. Take two minutes, help out the show and get a shoutout at the end of the show by leaving a 5 star rating on Apple or podcast addict, or join our Patreon at, Patreon.com/thesweatypenguin you get merch, bonus content, and your questions moved to the front of the line for tip of the iceberg. And by the way we have been posting a lot more on Patreon lately and were trying to ramp it up even more, so get in now, now is a great time to get more content im doing weekly news updates, i’m getting our episodes up on their, were going to be working on a bunch of other stuff so ddo go join we really really appreciate it.
ETHAN: The sweaty penguin is presented by peril and promises a public media initiative from the WNET group in New York reporting on the issues and solutions around climate change. You can learn more at pbs.org/peril and promise the opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect those of peril and promise or the WNET group. Thank you all for listening and we’ll see you all next week for a deep dive on The Marcellus Shale. A fossil fuel project in the Pennsylvania, New York, West Virginia, Ohio area. This is a large large natural gas project in the US, Very very interesting, so I will see you then.
