WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THIS EVENING WE'RE DISCUSSING TWO LOCAL GOVERNMENT issues IN OUR NEXT HALF HOUR WE WILL DISCUSS WHETHER LOCAL GOVERNMENTS SHOULD HAVE MORE TA OPTIONS TO RAISE MONEY.

BUT FIRST, A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHETHER MORE LOCAL ELECTIONS SHOULD BE PARTISAN.

RIGHT NOW IN MOST OF KENTUCKY RACES FOR MAYOR, CITY COUNCIL, SCHOOL BOARD AND OTHER LOCAL RACES ARE IN OTHER WORDS, THE CANDIDATES DON'T RUN AS DEMOCRATS OR REPUB SENATE BILL 50 AND HOUSE BILL 5 WOULD CHANGE THAT.

SUPPORTERS SAY THAT CHANGE WOULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR VOTERS TO UNDERSTAND THE CANDIDATES' STANDS ON ISSUE CRITICS SAY IT WOULD MAKE PARTISANSHIP IN POLITICS EVEN W. TO DISCUSS IT ALL WE'RE JOINED IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO BY: STATE SENATOR DAMON THAYER, A GEORGETOWN REPUBLICAN AND SENAT MAJORITY FLOOR LEADER.

STATE SENATOR REGGIE THOMAS, A LEXINGTON DEMOCRAT AND SENATE MINORITY CAUCUS CHAIR.

STATE REPRESENTATIVE MATT LOCKETT, A AND STATE REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE BROWN, A LEXINGTON DEMOCRAT.

WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS BY TWITTER @KYTO SEND AN EMAIL TO KYTONIGHT@KET.

OR USE THE WEB FORM AT KET.ORG/ OR YOU CAN JUST GIVE US A CALL AT 1-800-494-7605.

WELCOME, GENTLEMEN.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> ALWAYS GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU, RENEE.

>> ON YOUR DAY OFF, MONDAY.

RIGHT?

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INDULGENCE.

>> NEVER A DAY OFF.

>> I HEAR YOU, NEVER A DAY OFF.

SO LET ME PILE ON.

SENATE BILL 150, LET'S START THERE FIRST.

WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED AND WE'LL GET TO THE ARGUMENTS.

LEADER THAYER, TELL US ABOUT WHAT PROMPTED THIS, WHAT YOU WANT TO GET OUT OF IT AND WHEN WOULD IT GO INTO EFFECT AND WHAT RACES WOULD IT APPLY TO ESSENTIALLY TOO.

>> THANKS, RENEE.

EVERY ELECTION CYCLE I GET ASKED BY LOTS OF VOTERS WHO ARE THE REPUBLICANS AND WHO ARE THE DEMOCRATS IN RACES FOR CITY COUNCIL AND FOR SCHOOL BOARD.

AND IT CAME UP IN A LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE MEETING LAST FALL THAT REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT AND I WERE BOTH ON AND I GUESS LIGHTNING STRUCK AND WE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF MAKING THESE RACES PARTISAN IN THE INTERESTS OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

I BELIEVE VOTERS SHOULD HAVE THE MOST AMOUNT OF INFORMATION POSSIBLE WHEN THEY GO INTO THE POLLS TO CAST THEY ARE VOTE, AND THE NUMBER BUN STEP WE COULD -- NUMBER ONE STEP WE COULD TAKE TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT WHO THEY'RE VOTING FOR IS FOR PEOPLE TO DECLARE THEY'RE POLITICAL PARTY WHEN THEY'RE RUNNING FOR A CURRENT NON-PARTISAN OFFICE.

IT DOES HAVE TO BE REPUBLICAN ON DEMOCRAT.

THEY CAN REGISTERED AS AN INDEPENDENT, A GREEN PARTY, A LIBERTARIAN PARTY CANDIDATE, ET CETERA.

THEY CAN MAKE UP THEIR OWN PARTY, I SUPPOSE, BUT THEY NEED TO DECLARE A PARTY AFFILIATION SNICKER THAT WOULD RESULT THAT A MORE, AND AND I THINK THAT WOULD RESULT THAT A MORE INFORMED ELECTORATE.

WHAT I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS IS THESE CITY COUNCIL RACES IN PARTICULAR, JUST TURN MOO A POPULARITY CONTEST, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT TO VOTE FOR EIGHT OUT OF 16 LIKE WE DID IN GEORGETOWN WHERE I LIVE, AND YOU DO NOT REALLY SEE MUCH DISCUSSION OF THE ISSUES.

AND I THINK THE BEST WAY TO GET AROUND THAT IS TO MAKE PEOPLE DECLARE WHAT POLITICAL PARTY THEY'RE A MEMBER OF.

>> REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT, YOU OF A SIMILAR BILL, HOUSE BILL 50.

IS IT EXACTLY LIKE SENATE BILL 50?

AND WHEN WOULD THIS GO INTO EFFECT IF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY PASSES IT?

>> THEY ARE THE SAME BILL, AND WE'VE -- AWAY ACTUALLY FILED THEM AT THE SAME TIME.

AND IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY WOULD GO INTO EFFECT, THAT IS -- THAT'S NOT IN THE BILL, SO NEXT YEAR WOULD BE THAT EFFECTIVE DATE.

BUT I DO WANT TO KIND OF ECHO WHAT THE SENATOR WAS SAYING AS WELL, AND HOW KIND OF IT CAME ABOUT, HOW I SEE IT.

IT REALLY IS A TRANSPARENCY ISSUE.

IT REALLY IS GIVING THE VOTERS THE MOST INFORMATION -- VOTERS THE MOST INFORMATION POSSIBLE WHEN THEY GO TO THE POLLS, AND AS I KNOCK ON DOORS, EVERYTHING THAT I HEAR PEOPLE ASK ME ALL THE TIME, WHAT PARTY ARE THEY A PART OF?

BECAUSE I BELIEVE, AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE AS WELL, HOW YOU IDENTIFY WITH YOUR PARTY TELLS A LOT ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO GOVERN, AND I THINK THE VOTERS SHOULD KNOW THAT.

>> SO SENATOR THOMAS, IS THIS ALL ABOUT PARTISAN SCHEME TO HAVE MORE REPUBLICANS CONTROL MORE LOCAL GOVERNMENT?

HOW DO YOU VIEW IT?

>> RENAIRE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S MORE ABOUT ONE PARTY TRYING TO HAVE MORE LOCAL CONTROL, BUT I WILL RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES, SENATOR THAYER AND REPRESENTATIVE LOCKET.

I THINK IT'S FLAWED WHEN YOU SAY THAT A PARTY'S INITIAL TELLS SOMEONE WHAT YOU STAND FOR.

I THINK PEOPLE WILL ASK YOU REGARDLESS OF PARTY WHAT POSITIONS DO YOU TAKE?

AND YOU CAN'T PIGEONHOLE ALL DEMOCRATS, ALL REPUBLICANS IN ONE CARTING, RENEE.

IT JUST DIDN'T YOU WORK.

IN ONE CATEGORY.

AGAIN, THAT'S FLAWED THINKING.

AND IN TERMS OF STANCE ON THE ISSUES AND REPRESENTATIVE BROWN WILL SPEAK MORE TO THIS, I'M SURE, YOU HAVE VERY VIGOROUS AND ROBUST ISSUES, DEBATES EVEN IN NON-PARTISANSHIP ELECTIONS.

I CAN STELL TELL YOU BEING FROM LEXINGTON THAT WHEN CANDIDATES RUN FOR RACES HERE IN LEXINGTON FOR THE LEXINGTON CITY COUNCIL, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALLY GET INTO.

I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYBODY SAY WHO IS A DEMOCRAT, WHO IS A REPUBLICAN?

THEY WANT TO KNOW HOW THEY STAND ON KEY ISSUES AS BEING MORE PRO-INVESTMENT VERSUS MORE PRO-RURAL, ISSUES THAT AFFECT TRANSPORTATION HERE IN LEXINGTON.

THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THAT THEY REALLY WANT TO GET INTO.

THEY DON'T GET INTO WHETHER IT'S D OR R. AND AGAIN, I THINK EVEN -- EVEN IN PARTISAN RACES, WHICH ARE LIKE LEGISLATIVE RACES HERE, PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW WHERE DO YOU STAND?

IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR POSITIONS ARE.

I JUST THINK THE THINKING THAT SENATOR THAYER AND SENATOR LOCKET, IT'S NOT REALLY GIVING VOTERS MUCH CREDIT TO BE ABLE TO GET PAST WHAT ONE'S INITIAL IS.

>> REPRESENTATIVE BROWN, YOU SERVE IN THE LEXINGTON IF AETTE COUNTY COUNTIES FOR 11 YEARS?

>> 13.

MY FIRST WAS THREE YEARS.

>> TELL US ABOUT YOUR POSITION ON THIS.

LEXINGTON AS WE SAID NONE OF PARTISAN NOW.

EVEN THE CURRENT MAYOR, LINDA GORTON, HAS COME OUT AND SAID WHO ISN'T IDENTIFIED REPUBLICAN BY PARTY AFFILIATION AND SAID SHEA NOT FOR THIS.

AND SHE IS SOMEONE WHO, AS A REGISTERED REPUBLICAN, ALSO CAME OUT VEE HELMET AGAINST CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT NUMBER 2.

SO PERHAPS THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS FALL IN LINE WITH WHERE YOU THINK A CANDIDATE IS GOING TO BE WHEN THEY TURN OUT TO BE AGAINST A PARTICULAR ISSUE THAT PERHAPS DOESN'T ALIGN WITH THAT PARTY.

GIVE US YOUR IDEAS ABOUT WHY THIS IS A BAD IDEA, I ASSUME YOU WOULD SAY.

>> I AGREE WITH MAYOR GORDON, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARY.

I SERVED ON LEXINGTON FAYETTE URBAN COUNTY GOVERNMENT CITY COUNCIL FOR 13 YEARS, AND I NEVER REALLY GOT INTO OR HEARD THE PARTISAN ASPECT OF RUNNING FOR THE OFFICE, AND MY THING IS IS THAT A IFITES NOT BROKE, WHY DO WE NEED TO FIX IT.

AND I THINK AS FAR AS THE CITY COUNCIL IS CONCERNED AND AS FAR AS THE SCHOOL BOARD IS CONCERNED, IS NONE OF PARTISAN MAKES SENSE FOR THE PEOPLE OF LEXINGTON COUNTY.

>> VAU HEARD, LEADER THAYER, FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS?

WE KNOW THE KENTUCKY LEAGUE OF CITIES, THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY IS OPPOSED TO SENATE BILL AND HOUSE BILL 50.

THERE WAS A LETTER IN LOTS OF PAPERS FROM DAVID HATTER WHO WAS THE MAYOR OF FORT WRITE, NORTHERN KENTUCKY.

HE IDENTIFIES HIMSELF IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH A AS A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN.

HE GIVES THREE PRETTY SUCCINCT OPPOSITION PIECES, AND I'M GOING TO JUST PARAPHRASE.

HE SAYS IT WILL ONLY CREATE UNWELCOME DISCORD AND DISSENSION.

LOCAL ISSUES ARE RARELY PARTISAN, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TAX COLLECTION OR TRASH COLLECTION AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS INSTEAD THEY ARE FOCUSED ON LOCAL ISSUES, PUBLIC SAFETY, INFRASTRUCTURE, TAXES, ZONING AND ECONOMIC ACHIEVEMENT SAYS THE PASSAGE OF THESE BILLS WILL FURTHER LIMIT THE POOL OF CANDIDATES AND THE DIVERSITY OF IDEAS ULTIMATELY LEADING TO A LESS REPRESENTATIVE AND LESS INEFFECTIVE LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

THIRD POINT HE SAID IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE STATE STATUTES CURRENTLY ALLOW LOCAL LEGISLATIVE BODIES AND BOARDS TO OPT FOR PARTISAN ELECTIONS ALREADY.

THEY ALREADY HAVE THAT OPTION.

SO WHAT'S THE NEED FOR THE BILL?

>> YES.

TO ANSWER YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, I HAVE HEARD FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS, AND MAYOR HAT SER AN OLD FRIEND OF MINE.

WE STARTED OUT REPUBLICAN PARTY POLITICS IN NORTHERN KENTUCKY BACK WHEN JIM BUNTING WAS-RUN FOR THE UNITED STATES SENATE, AND SO I RESPECT HIS OPINION.

I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, TO AN EARLIER POINT YOU MADE, THIS ISN'T ABOUT A POLITICAL PARTY GRAB BY REPUBLICANS.

I'VE GOT REPUBLICANS WHO LIVE IN SUBURBAN AREAS WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THE BILL AND DEMOCRATS WHO LIVE IN RURAL AREAS WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THE BILL.

WHY DO YOU THINK?

WHY DO YOU THINK?

BECAUSE REPUBLICANS IN SUBURBAN AREAS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING REELECTED IN A SUBURBAN OR AN URBAN AREA AS A REPUBLICAN, AND DEMOCRATS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING REELECTED IN A RURAL AREA.

SO I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO CHANGE IT EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO.

AND MY QUESTION IS WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF.

WHY ARE THEY AFRAID TO LET THE VOTERS KNOW THEIR POLITICAL PARTY AFFILIATION.

MOST PEOPLE WHO GO INTO THE BALLOT BOX DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT THESE NON-PARTISAN RACES, SO THEY VOTE FOR SOMEONE THEY KNOW OR THEY -- SOMEONE'S GOT A GOOD BALLOT NAME.

THERE ARE ACTUALLY SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN GOOD BALLOT NAMES.

AND THAT'S HOW PEOPLE GET ELECTED.

AND I OFTEN FIND THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE REPRESENTED BY DEMOCRATS IN VERY CONSERVATIVE AREAS AND BY REPUBLICANS IN LIBERAL AREAS.

IT WORKS FOR COUNTY GOVERNMENT, OUR FISCAL COURTS AND OUR JUDGE EXECUTIVES, COUNTY COMMISSIONS IN SOME PLACES.

THEY'RE ALL ELECTED BY A PARTISAN BALLOT.

WHAT'S TO BE AFRAID OF?

>> SO IT'S CONSISTENCY IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, CONSISTENCY AND TRANSPARENCY.

>> CONSISTS, TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> SO REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT, THERE ARE A HANDFUL, I THINK THERE'S FIVE OR SIX CITIES AMONG THEM LOUISVILLE WITH SHIVELY, HOPKINSVILLE AND IRWIN INDUSTRY.

THE MADISONVILLE AT THE COUNCIL APPROVED AN ORDINANCE TO GO NONE OF PARTISAN.

OUT OF A HANDFUL OF 414 GOVERNMENTS, YOU HAVE SOME THAT ARE PARTISAN.

SO -- BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A CRY FOR MORE OF THAT, MORE PARTISANSHIP OR NOT.

I MEAN, GIVE US A LITTLE BIT MORE RATIONALE FOR WHY IT'S NEEDED.

>> I THINK IT'S AMAZING TO ME, AND AS A TALK AND AS A GET FEEDBACK -- AS I TALK AND AS I GET FEEDBACK FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE, A LOT OF THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK I GET FROM LOCALLY ELECTED OFFICIALS.

NOW, I'M NOT GOING TO ASSUME WHY THAT IS.

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO HIDE AT ALL.

I'M -- I WON'T MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT BY AND LARGE THE PEOPLE THAT I HEAR FROM ARE VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THIS.

AND I UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND THE LOCALLY ELECTED OFFICIALS BEING OPPOSED TO IT, BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THIS, AND THIS IS A DEEPLY HELD BELIEF, THAT I BELIEVE THAT IF YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY AS SCHOOL BOARDS, AS CITY COUNCILS DO, IF YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO RAISE TAXES ON VOTERS, THEN THOSE VOTERS DESERVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU AS AN OFFICIAL THAT WILL GOVERN, HOW YOU MIGHT MAKE DECISIONS, WHERE YOUR DECISIONS MIGHT BE COMING FROM, AND IT REALLY DOES -- I KNOW WE KEEP SAYING IT, ABOUT IT REALLY DOES BOIL DOWN TO ACCOUNTABLE AND TRANSPARENCY.

AND I WOULD SAY THE SAME THING TO ALL OF THOSE THAT WOULD BE OPPOSED, WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO PUT YOUR PARTY ON THE BALLOT?

WHY DON'T YOU WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT PARTY YOU'RE AFFILIATED WITH?

>> SO BEFORE I GO TO YOU, LEADER THAYER, MARTIN RIVERS FROM LEXINGTON ASKS A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

WE'LL JUST GIVE A COUPLE.

DOESN'T LEADER THAYER THINK THERE'S ENOUGH POLARIZATION?

PARTISAN POLITICS ALREADY?

WHY SHOULDN'T THIS BE LEFT UP TO THE CITIZENS OF EACH CITY?

SO LET THEM DECIDE.

IN THE NAME OF HOME RULE, LOCAL CONTROL, IS THIS NOT AN AFFRONT TO LOCAL CONTROL THAT REPUBLICANS OFTEN TOUT BEING CHAMPIONS OF?

>> LET ME FIRST OF ALL SAY THAT I'M GLAD WE STARTED THIS CUSHION DISCUSSION.

NEVER THOUGHT WHEN REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT AND I DECIDED TO FILE THESE COMPANION BILLS THAT WE WOULD END UP ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" WITH YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

IT'S JUST FUNNY.

THE LEAGUE OF CITIES HAS 38 DIFFERENT MATTERS THAT THEY HAVE BROUGHT BEFORE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE THAT THEY WANTED DEALT WITH IN THIS 30-DAY SESSION, AND THEY'RE ON DEFENSE NOW TRYING TO KILL OUR COMPANION BILLS.

I JUST FIND THAT A LITTLE BIT ON A RONIK.

MAYBE I'LL DO THAT EVERY SESSION, FILE IN BILL TO KEEP THEM FROM BRINGING A 38 POINT BULLETED LIST TO THE LEGISLATURE EVER YEAR BEFORE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE.

BUT TWO THINGS I WANT TO SAY.

NUMBER ONE, THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN POLLED.

65% OF KENTUCKIANS SUPPORT THIS ISSUE.

AS MANY AS SUPPORT SPORTS BETTING IN KENTUCKY.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING CRAZY OVER SPORTS BETTING RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S A LOT OF ENERGY BEHIND THAT ISSUE.

THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE, 65%, APPROVE OF PARTISAN LOCAL ELECTIONS AS THEY DO SPORTS BETTING.

AND AS FOR ME, THIS IS JUST CONSIST WITH WHAT I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THE LAST 20 YEARS.

FOR THE LONGEST TIME I WORKED TO TRY TO MAKE UNELECTED BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS THAT HAVE TAXING AUTHORITY, LIKE REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT TALKED ABOUT, BE ACCOUNTABLE TO SOME ELECTED BODY, LIKE LIBRARY BOARDS NOW HAVE TO HAVE THEIR RATE INCREASES APPROVED BY AN ELECTED BOARD.

THIS IS JUST ANOTHER STEP IN THE SAME SORT OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE IN GOVERNMENT.

>> SO WHAT ABOUT OTHER RACES?

WHY NOT JUDGESHIP?

WHY NOT MAKE THOSE PARTISAN.

>> I'M FOR THAT.

>> YOU'RE FOR THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> IS THAT GOING TO BE AN AMENDMENT TO YOUR BILL?

>> NO.

I WISH.

I THINK OUR JUDICIAL RACES SHOULD BE PARTISAN.

THEY ARE IN MANY OTHER STATES.

AND WE HAVE A VERY LIBERAL JUDICIARY IN A LOT OF PLACES, MOST NOTABLY OUR SUPREME COURT, BUT THAT WOULD TECH A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

I HAVE TALKED TO REPRESENTATIVE JASON NEMES ABOUT THAT AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE MAY BRING NEXT YEAR WHEN WE CAN PUT CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS ON THE BALLOT.

>> SENATOR THOMAS I WANT TO GO TO YOU BECAUSE THERE'S A COUPLE OF CORD CASES.

WOOLLY VERSUS SPALDING 1956, THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE STATE SAID THE FUNDAMENTAL MANDATE OF CONSTITUTION AND STATUTES OF KENTUCKY IS THAT THERE SHALL BE EQUALITY AND THAT ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT WILL BE NON-PARTISAN AND NON-SECTARIAN IN RELATION TO SCHOOL BOARDS.

THEN ROE VERSUS THE COUNCIL FOR A BETTER EDUCATION 1989 THE KENTUCKY SUPREME COURT CITED AND REAFFIRMED THAT HOLDING IN WOOLLY OPINION AND FURTHER HELD THAT ONE OF THE ESSENTIAL REQUIRED CHARACTERISTICS OF THE SYSTEM OF COMMON SCHOOLS IS COMMON SCHOOLS SHALL BE MONITORED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO ASSURE THEY ARE OPERATED WITH NO TASTE, DUPLICATION, NO MISMANAGEMENT AND WITH NO POLITICAL INFLUENCE.

IS THAT ALL YOU NEED TO LOOK AT, IS PREVIOUS CASE LAW?

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

RENEE, I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED THAT BECAUSE I HAVE TO SIT HERE AND STATE TONIGHT THAT I'M REALLY AMAZED AT WHAT MY KLIEG SENATOR THAYER AND WHAT REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT ARE PROPOSING BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CRITICAL ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS, BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN HERE, AND SENATOR THAYER YOU'LL MENTION SPORTS GAMING -- I'LL TALK ABOUT SENATE 150 -- WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IN IN STATE IS THE REPUBLICANS ARE BECOMING THE PARTY OF BIG GOVERNMENT.

THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER EVERYTHING NOW.

THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS REALLY THE ESSENCE, RENEE, OF WHAT LOCAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO.

THEY SHOULD HAVE CONTROL, AS YOU SAID, HOME RULE OVER HOW THEY WANT TO GOVERN.

THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER SCHOOLS AND HAVE THIS BIG GOVERNMENT SAY, WE WANT TO TAKE OVER EVERYTHING.

I'M JUST REALLY AMAZED TO HEAR THAT.

>> YOU MENTIONED SENATE BILL 150.

ARE YOU GETTING AT THE LEGISLATION THAT WAS FILED BY STATE SENATOR MAX WISE?

>> ABSOLUTELY, IF WHEN THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER THE STATE BOARDS OF EDUCATION.

THEY WANT TO SAY STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION CAN'T DO THIS, LOCAL DISTRICTS CAN'T DO THIS.

NOW NECESSITY WANT TO SAY LOCAL GOVERNMENTS CAN'T DO THIS.

AND MR. RIVERS, WHO YOU REFERENCED, IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THEIR JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS IS TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND I'LL GO BACK HIGHWAY SAID IN MY OPENING REMARKS.

NIGH ELECTED OFFICIAL HAS TO SAY WHAT THEY STAND FOR, YOU KNOW, HERE'S WHAT I STAND FOR, HERE ARE MY POSITIONS.

IF I GET ELECTED, HERE'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A D OR R OR DON'T HAVE A D OR R, VOTERS ARE GOING TO WANT TO KNOW THAT AND STILL MAKE THEIR DECISIONS ON WHAT YOU STAND FOR.

THE THE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY, RENEE, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INITIAL BEHIND YOUR NAME.

>> SO TO THAT POINT, LEADER THAYER, I MEAN, IF IT IS IT MORE IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHERE PEOPLE STAND RATHER THAN JUST WHERE III ERR THIS AIR PARENTHETICAL D ORE R BECAUSE WE KNOW THERE ARE DIFFERENT FACTIONS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> I'VE HEARD A LOT OF ARGUMENTS OVER THE LAST MONTH AGAINST SENATE BILL 50 AND HOW BILL 50, BUT THAT ONE TAKES THE CAKE FOR BEING THE MOST OUTLANDISH I'VE EVER HEARD, ABOUT IT GUESS IF SENATOR THOMAS IS SAYING THAT REPUBLICANS WANT TO TAKE OVER EVERYTHING, I GUESS HE'S ASSUMING THAT REPUBLICANS WOULD WIN ALL THESE RACES IF THEY BECAME PARTISAN, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS NOT TRUE.

THAT'S -- FOR EXAMPLE, LOUISVILLE HAS PARTISAN RACES FOR CITY COUNCIL.

AND IT'S PRETTY HEAVILY DEMOCRAT OVER THERE.

I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT REPUBLICANS DID PICK UP TWO SEATS ON THE METRO COUNCIL DURING THE LAST ELECTION.

AND I JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF.

IF THEY DON'T LIKE PARTISAN ELECTIONS, SENATOR THOMAS, ARE YOU GOING TO FILE A BILL TO MAKE 11:00 ELECTIONS AND GUBERNATORIAL ELECTIONS NON-PARTISAN?

RONALD REAGAN ONCE SAID THAT IF WE AGREE 80% FORTUNATE TIME OR MORE I CALL MY FRIEND, AND THAT'S A GOOD DESCRIPTION FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WE GENERALLY AGREE ON 80% OF THE ISSUES AND IN OFTEN CASES MORE.

AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING A CANDIDATE CAN YOU DO MORE THAN TELL THEM THEIR POLITICAL PARTY AFFILIATION TO TELL THEM HOW THEY'RE GOING TO GOVERN, AND OUR SCHOOL BOARDS HAVE BECOME MORE PARTISAN, AND DURING THE SHUTS DOWN AND LOCKDOWNS THAT WE SAW INSTITUTED BY GOVERNOR BESHEAR AGREED TO BY MANY SCHOOL BOARDS, THEY HID BEHIND THAT NON-PARTISANSHIP WHILE THEY SHUT DOWN SCHOOLS, KEPT OUR KIDS OUT OF SCHOOLS, AND WE HAD THE GREATEST LEARNING LOSS IN HISTORY.

>> SO BEFORE I GO BACK TO REPRESENTATIVETIVE LOCKETT I WANT TO GET TO REPRESENTATIVE BROWN IN A MOMENT BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS COMING IN, HOW WOULD THESE BILLS AFFECT PRIMARY RACES, BECAUSE KENTUCKY HAS CLOSED PRIMARIES.

>> YES.

SO IN TERMS OF A PRIMARY RACE, IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS IT IS NOW.

SO IF IT'S AN AT LARGE CITY COUNCIL SEAT, IT WOULD STILL REMAIN AT LARGE.

YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO PUT THE D AND THE R BEHIND YOUR NAME.

BUT I AGREE WITH SENATOR THAYER.

IT'S AMAZING TO ME THE ARGUMENTS, AND IT KIND OF -- IT KIND OF MAKES ME CHUCKLE TO THINK THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A D OR AN R BEHIND YOUR NAME BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU THE MAJORITY OF KENTUCKIANS BELIEVE THAT IT MATTERS IF THERE'S A D OR AN R BEHIND YOUR NAME, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT, HOW IT PLAYED OUT IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE IF THAT D OR THAT R IS BEHIND YOUR NAME, WHAT THAT DOES IS IT TELLS A VOTER HOW YOU'RE GOING TO GOVERN.

AND OUR OPPOSITION CAN YOU SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT TO SAY, BUT THEY -- THEY KNOW AS WELL AS I DO IT DOES MATTER, AND VOTERS KNOW THAT IT MATTERS.

>> SO IT DOES MATTER, REPRESENTATIVE BROWN, THIS SIDE SAYS, AND VOTERS WANT TO KNOW.

>> I THINK IN THE POLITICS THAT WE HAVE NOW AS FAR AS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, THE GUBERNATORIAL RACES, BUT CITY COUNCIL IN LEXINGTON VOTED WHEN E. WE DID MERGER TO BE NONE OF PARTISAN, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AND THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO STAY.

IT MAKES SENSE TO ME THAT NON-PARTISAN RACES ARE THE LAY OF THE LAND.

I DON'T KNOW -- I HAVE NOT HEARD THE QUESTIONS AS TO WHY WE HAVE NON-PARTISAN RACES VERSUS PARTISAN RACES, AND AGAIN, WHAT I SAID EARLIER, IF IT'S NOT BROKE, WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT FIXING IT.

>> SO PARTICULARLY FOR SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS WHO HAVE OTHER JOBS -- THE CITY COUNCIL DO, TOO, BUT LET'S TAKE SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS WHO MAY WORK FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THEY MAY HAVE A CONTRACT OR WHATEVER WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THE HATCH ACT PROHIBITS PARTISAN ACTIVITIES, RIGHT?

SO WOULD YOU HAVE SOME SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS WHO COULD END UP LOSING THEIR SEAT ON THE SCHOOL BOARD BECAUSEY THEY HAD TO DECLARE THEY'RE PARTY AFFILIATION?

>> I'M NOT A LAWYER.

I'D HAVE TO ASK A LAWYER ABOUT THAT, RENEE.

WE HAVEN'T GONE THAT FAR INTO IT.

BUT IF IT WAS A HATCH ACT VIOLATION, I SUPPOSE IT WOULD KEEP THEM FROM RUNNING.

>> SO IS THAT A CONSIDERATION?

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU FINESSE YOUR BILL, BUT IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ENOUGH ABOUT TO TRY TO ADDRESS?

>> I HADN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT IT UNTIL TEN SECONDS AGO.

I MEAN, REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT AND I ARE PRETTY APPROACHABLE GUYS.

IF PEOPLE HAD SUGGESTIONS FOR CHANGES TO THE BILL, BRING THEM TO US.

ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THIS IS A FIRST DRAFT.

NOBODY, NOBODY HAS COME TO ME OR REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT THAT I'M AWARE OF, WITH SUGGESTIONS.

THIS IS OUR FIRST SWING AT IT.

AND WE MIGHT PASS IT THIS SESSION.

WE MIGHT PASS PART OF IT THIS SESSION.

WE MIGHT PASS NONE OF IT THIS SESSION.

BUT IT'S NOT GOING AWAY, SO WORK WITH US, BRING US SOME IDEAS.

IF THERE'S A HATCH ACT WORKAROUND THAT WE NEED TO DO, LEASE EXPECT IT WHY NOT?

>> YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY, ESQUIRE SENATOR THOMAS.

WHAT'S YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THIS?

>> WELL, I HAVEN'T GIVEN THAT MUCH THOUGHT, RENEE, BUT I DO KNOW THAT IF YOU DECLARE A PARTISAN RACE AND YOU ARE IN A POSITION WHERE YOU'RE WORKING FOR A GOVERNMENT, PARTICULARLY A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AGENCY, THEN THIS WOULD BAR YOU FROM SERVING.

AND THE DANGER OF THAT IS THAT IT WOULD LIMIT THE POOL OF CANDIDATES.

BUT MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT, RENEE, AND I WANT TO MAKE THIS POINT BEFORE WE END THIS SEGMENT, DO WE REALLY WANT TO POLITICIZE OUR EDUCATION?

THAT'S THE REAL DANGER HERE, THAT WHAT THIS PROPOSAL IS SAYS THAT WE'RE -- WE I WITH AN TO HAVE SOME KIND OF PARTISAN CONTROL OVER THE DIRECTION OF OUR SCHOOL BOARD.

AND I THINK THAT'S VERY DANGEROUS.

AND THEY CAN CHUCKLE ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S DANGEROUS, RENEE.

I MEAN THIS VERY SERIOUSLY.

TO HAVE PARTISAN CONTROL OVER EDUCATION POLICY, I WOULD HATE TO SEE OUR COUNTRY GO IN THAT DIRECTION.

>> REPRESENTATIVE BROWN.

>> WE HAVEN'T HAD PARTISAN RACES IN FAYETTE COUNTY, AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE ASK YOU WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR ME, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR ME IN TERMS OF PROVISION OF BASIC SERVICES.

AND THE CANDIDATE, WHEN I FIRST RAN, IT WAS AN OPEN SEAT.

THERE WERE SEVEN OF US THAT RAN.

I FINISHED SECOND IN THAT RACE AND WENT ON TO THE GENERAL ELECTION, AND SUBSEQUENTLY WON AND THAT AS A KICKOFF TO MY CAREER, BUT I THINK PEOPLE CARE ABOUT PROVISION OF BASIC SERVICES, AND IF YOU CAN PROVIDE OR HELP PROVIDE BASIC SERVICES.

FOR THE CITIZENS IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S A D OR AN R. >> THIS ARGUMENT THAT SENATOR THOMAS MAKES ABOUT SCHOOL BOARDS BEING NON-PARTISAN IS ABOUT THE MOST SPECIOUS THINGS I'VE HEARD WHICH MEANS IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S THREW BUT IT'S NOT.

THE JEFFERSON COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS SCHOOL BOARD IS A WHOLLY-OWNED SUBSIDIARY OF THE JEFFERSON COUNTY TEACHERS ASSOCIATION.

THEIR CAMPAIGNS ARE FUNDED BY THE JCTA WITH MANDATORY DUES THAT THEY TAKE OUT OF OF THE PAYCHECKS OF EVERY TEACHER IN THE JCPS SYSTEM, AND THEY'RE ALL LIBERAL DEMOCRATS.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT SCHOOL BOARDS MORE THAN CITY COUNCILS NEED TO BE PARTISAN PRAISES MORE SO -- RACES MORE SO BECAUSE OF WHAT WE SAW DURING COVID WHERE PARENTS WERE COMPLETELY SHUT OUT OF DECISIONS REGARDING THEIR KIDS AND BEING IN SCHOOLS AND MASKING AND VIRTUAL LEARNING.

LOOK AT OUR TEST ORES SCORES.

45% OF ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS SCORED PROFICIENT OR DISTINGUISHED ON THEIR READING TESTS AND IT GETS WORSE FOR MATH AND SCIENCE.

YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WORKING.

>> SO WHEN YOU SAID THAT MAYBE PART OF THIS BILL COULD PASS THIS SESSION OR YOU MIGHT TAKE OUT SEGMENTS OF IT, SO WOULD YOU START WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD AND THEN NOT BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE MAYOR, THE CITY COMMISSION RACES, ET CETERA?

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE CONSIDERING?

>> OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

>> WHICH OTHER WAY AROUND?

>> MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST DO THE CITY RACES AND LEAVE THE SCHOOL BOARD NEXT TIME.

MAYBE WE SHOULD DO THE SCHOOL BOARD AND LEAVE THE CITY FOR NEXT TIME.

I'M OPEN.

>> REPRESENTATIVE BROWN, LAST WORD.

>> THERE SEEMS TO BE THE CONVERSATION OF WE NEED TO CHANGE WHAT WE'RE DOING, AND IT'S MY OPINION THAT IT IS WORKING AND THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE -- SENATOR THAYER MENTIONED CLOSING SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE STILL ALIVE BECAUSE DECISIONS WERE MADE THAT RELATED TO HEALTH AND WELFARE FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE COMMONWEALTH.

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE THINGS THERE.

GOOD CONVERSATION.

SEE, HALF AN HOUR DOESN'T DO IT JUSTICE BUT WE'RE GOING TO BREAK THINGS UP A LITTLE BIT AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK AND WE'LL BE BACK TO DISCUSS LOCAL GOVERNMENT TAXING OPTIONS.

YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THAT CONVERSATION COMING UP IN JUST A FEW MINUTES ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

STAY WITH US.

6.

>> Renee: THANK YOU FOR STAYING WITH US ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

NOW FOR PART 2 WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TAX OPTIONS FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND DISCUSS THIS PART OF THE CONVERSATION, SENATOR THAYER REMAINS WITH US AND JOINING US IN LEXINGTON: STATE REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MEREDITH, AN OAKLAND REPUBLICAN AND J.D.

CHANEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CEO OF THE KENTUCK LEAGUE OF CITIES.

GEOLOGIC US FROM OUR LOUISVILLE STUDIO IS SHANNON STIGLITZ, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS FOR THE KENTUCKY RETAIL FEDERATION.

WE STILL WANT TO HEAR WITH YOU.

FROM YOU.

SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS AT twitter @KYTONIGHTK SEND AN EMAIL TO KYTONIGHT@KET.

OR USE THE WEB FORM AT KET.ORG/.

OR YOU MAY SIMPLY GIVE US A cal AT 1-800-494-7605.

WELCOME THE TO OUR SECOND SET OF GUESTS AND NEWCOMERS AND THANK YOU, MS. STIGLITZ, JOINING FROM US LOUISVILLE.

LET'S GET RIGHT TO IT BECAUSE TIME IS SHORT.

REPRESENTATIVE MEREDITH, THIS GOES A BILL ON I WANT TO SAY LOCAL TAXING OPTIONS AND I WANT YOU TO TELL US WHAT THE DEPTH OF THAT IS AND HOW IT DIFFICULTIES PERHAPS FROM WHAT YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY -- DEPTH PERHAPS OF THAT IS.

>> I WOULD CALL IT LOCAL TAX MODERNIZATION.

IF YOU LOOK AT 2018, I THINK IT WAS, WE STARTED ON THE PATH OF MODERNIZING OUR STATE TAX CODE, AND AFTER THAT SESSION WAS OVER WITH AND WE SAW THE FIRST REDUCTION IN INCOME TAX FOR BUSINESSES AND INDIVIDUALS ACROSS THE STATE, THERE'S A GROUP IN THE LEADERSHIP THAT SAID, IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TRULY COMPREHENSIVE TAX REFORM, WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE LOCAL LEVEL AS WELL.

WE STARTED RESEARCHING THAT AT THAT TIME, AND IT WORKED FORWARD ON THIS, AND CONTINUED TO EVOLVE THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE.

NI WHAT YOU WILL SEE IN THE BILL THAT WE WILL FILE, PROBABLY NOT THIS YEAR BUT NEXT YEAR, WILL BE A VERY SIMILAR BILL TO WHAT YOU SAW LAST YEAR FILED.

THERE MAYBE A FEW TWEAKS, A FEW CHANGES, AND WE MAY DEVELOP A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT THE POLICY MAY LOOK LIKE AFTER THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IS PASSED ON THE BALLOT, BUT OVERALL I THINK THE AMENDMENT WILL BE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST.

>> SO NO ACTION ON THIS BILL THIS SESSION IS WHAT I'M HEARING.

>> I THINK WE WILL HOLD IT UNTIL NEXT SESSION.

OBVIOUSLY THERE IS NO OPPORTUNITY TO PUT A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ON THE BALLOT THIS YEAR WITH THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

IT HAS TO BE ON WHEN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S ON THE BALLOT.

AND I THINK WE WILL HOLD UNTIL NEXT YEAR IN PREPARATION FOR IT BEING ON THE BALLOT IN THE SAME YEAR.

>> SO WHAT KIND OF TAXES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

WHAT CURRENTLY CAN YOU LOCAL GOVERNMENTS LEVY AND WHAT WERE YOU -- ARE YOU PROPOSING?

>> SO RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY A LOCAL GOVERNMENT CAN YOU BASICALLY LEVY THE PROPERTY TAX, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL TAX IN KENTUCKY, THE OCCUPATIONAL LICENSE TAXES ON BOTH BUSINESSES AND THE INDIVIDUAL, AND SOME FRANCHISE TAXES AND FEES ACROSS THE BOARD, WHETHER IT BE INSURANCE, RESTAURANT.

TAXES IN SOME JURISDICTIONS AND OTHERS.

WE WANT TO DO WITH THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT SOMETHING TO ALLOW FOR OTHER OPTIONS THAT ARE MORE COMPETITIVE IN THE MARKETPLACE.

I THINK RIGHT NOW WHAT WE PROBABLY THINK OF MOST OF THE TIME WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THAT IS A SALES OR CONSUMPTION BASED TAX.

IF YOU LOOK AT 38 STATIONS IN THE NATION HAVE SOME FORM OF A LOCAL SALES TAX FOR THEIR LOCAL GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS.

38 STATES.

WE'RE ONE OF ONLY 15 THAT FOCUS ON AN INCOME-BASED TAX FOR THAT REVENUE STREAM.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD START.

BUT ALSO WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION THAT WASN'T WRITTEN BY THE FOUNDERS OF THIS STATE.

IT WAS WRITTEN 100 YEARS AFTER IN 1891.

AND IT'S NOT LIKE OUR FEDERAL CONSTITUTION WHICH WAS A GUIDING DOCUMENT THAT ALLOWED FOR AMENDMENTS THROUGH THE YEARS.

IT WAS A CONSTITUTION THAT WAS VERY PRESCRIPTIVE AND FOR THE MOST PART ACTED MORE LIKE A STATUTE THAN IT DID A CONSTITUTION AND GUIDING DOCUMENT FOR THE STATE.

AND SO WE KNOW WE'RE ALREADY 30 YEARS BEHIND THE CURVE IN COMPETING AGAINST MANY OF THESE OTHER STATES THAT HAVE CONSUMPTION-BASED TAXATION.

AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THE NEXT MODERNIZATION COMES ALONG, IT DOESN'T TAKE US 30 YEARS TO CATCH UP AS WELL.

>> SO ARE YOU FOLLOWING THE STATE MODEL WHERE THE SALES TAX WOULD REPLACE THE INCOME TAX?

>> I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE TOWARDS.

NOW, WHAT WE DON'T HAVE RESEARCH ON AT THIS POINT IS HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, CITIES AND COUNTIES TO TRANSITION OUT OF THEIR INCOME TAXES.

>> SO THEY'RE NOT LOSING MONEY, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BECAUSE OUR KEY IS THIS, PROTECT THE BASELINE REVENUES THAT COUNTIES AND CITIES HAVE TODAY, PROVIDE AN INCENTIVE TO MAKE THE MOVE, AND THEN GROW THE PIE SO THAT WE OVERALL LOWER THE TAX BURDEN BUT ALLOW THE CITY AND COUNTY REVENUES TO GROW WITH THE GROWTH IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

>> SO AS I RECALL, AND MAYBE IT WASN'T LAST YEAR'S BILL SO EXCUSE ME IF I CONFLATE THESE, THERE'S A TWO STEP PROCESS HERE.

THERE'S A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT WOULD JUST ALLOW IT TO GO BEFORE THE LOCAL PEOPLE, AND THEN THE LOCAL PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY VOTE ON A TAX?

>> NO.

WE WOULD, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WOULD PASS OBVIOUSLY THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

IT WOULD GO ON THE-FOOTER PEOPLE TO DECIDE ABOUT GIVING THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THE POWER TO THEN MODERNIZE THE LOCAL TAX CODE.

ONCE THAT HAPPENS, THEN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SECOND STEP, WE WOULD COME BACK AND WRITE A FRAMEWORK FOR WHAT THE LOCAL TAX CODE WOULD LOOK LIKE AFTER THE FACT.

>> AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT ALLOW THEM TO JUST DO TAX OPTIONS THAT WOULD SUNSET AFTER A CERTAIN TIME.

THEY WOULD HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY THERE.

>> PROBABLY HAVE A TRANSITIONING PHASE, SOMETHING LIKE TRIGGERS LIKE WHAT WE SEE.

>> WITH THE STATE.

>> IN THE STATE PROCESS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

>> SO WE HAVE TO LIGHT FIRST OF ALL WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THE I WANT TO GO TO J.D.

CHANEY WITH THE KENTUCKY LEAGUE OF CITIES.

YOU'RE FOR THIS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ON THIS VERY SUBSTANTIVE AND SUBSTANTIAL LIST OF LEGISLATIVE AGENDA ITEMS, THIS HAS BEEN AT THE TOP FOR THE PAST SEVERAL YEAR.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR TWO DECADES, TO MODERNIZE A WAY LOCAL GOVERNMENTS COLLECT REVENUES.

WE ARE HEAVILY RELIANT, 58% OF ALL CITY REVENUES COME FROM OCCUPATION AGO TAXES.

WEIGH REALLY RELYING ON THOSE TAXES THAT BURDEN PRODUCTIVE.

AND FROM A COMPETITIVE STANDPOINT, ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS AN AMENDMENT, HOPEFULLY THE VOTERS WILL APPROVE THAT, TRUST THE LEGISLATORS TO ACT -- ENACT LEGISLATION BECAUSE IT DOESN'T PUT ANY OF THAT INTO THE CONSTITUTION.

ALL WE DO IS CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION WHERE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S HANDCUFFED RIGHT NOW TO BE ABLE TO REWRITE THE LOCAL TAX CODE.

>> SO WHAT ARE LOCAL OFFICIALS TELLING YOU THEY NEED MORE REVENUE FOR?

>> THEY NEED MORE REVENUE FOR THE QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES.

THEY NEED MORE REVENUE FOR PROVIDING THE BASIC SERVICES.

WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, THAT KEEP PACE WITH THE WAGE INFLATION JUST LIKE THE PRIVATE MARKET IS.

WE'RE NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR EXCEPT WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO REALLY RAISE REVENUE.

FOR THE MOST PART CITY GOVERNMENTS ARE PRACTICALLY CAPPED OUT.

THEIR INSURANCE PREMIUM TAX IS JUST AT THE POINT WHERE 52 IF YOU RAY IT MORE, IT MAKES IT TOO EXPENSIVE TO BUY INSURANCE IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

FROM AN OCCUPATIONAL STANDPOINT, TAX STANDPOINT, IF YOU RAISE THAT ANY, THEN YOU BECOME LESS COMPETITIVE WITH THEIR NEIGHBORING STATES OR YOUR NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES IN KENTUCKY.

FROM A PROPERTY TAX STANDPOINT WE'RE STATUTORILY LIMITED.

SO FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO RESPOND LIKE THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR LIKE THE STATE GOVERNMENT DOES BECAUSE WE'RE BOXD IN BY THAT CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION, AND SO IS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> SO IS THE SALES TAX, THE 6% SALES TAX WHAT YOU THINK WOULD DO IT?

>> NOT A 6% SALES TAX.

I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO PUT A 6% LOCAL SALES TAX ON TOP OF THE 6% STATE SALES TAX.

BUT A PERCENT OR A PERCENT AND A HALF OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES WOULD BE ABLE TO EVENTUALLY MIGRATE US AWAY FROM THAT RELIANCE ON THAT PRODUCTIVE-BASED TAX.

>> SO I WANT TO GO TO OUR LOUISVILLE STUDIO AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO GET THE CON SIDE OF THING.

SHANNON STIGLITZ WITH THE KENTUCKY RETAIL FEDERATION, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

YOUR COLLEAGUE AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE KENTUCKY RETAIL FEDERATION HAD AN OP ED BACK IN NOVEMBER.

I THINK IT WAS THE 21st, THAT SAID OPENING THE DOOR FOR 120 DIFFERENT COUNTIES AND 415 DIFFERENT CITIES TO CREATE A HODGEPODGE OF NEW TAXES IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER THAT WOULD MAKE DOING BUSINESS IN KENTUCKY FAR MORE DIFFICULT AND MORE EXPENSIVE.

EXPOUND ON THAT.

>> YES.

THANK YOU, RENEE, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE TONIGHT.

AND I APPRECIATE CHAIRMAN MEREDITH AND LEADER THAYER AND, OF COURSE, J.D.

BEING THERE AS WELL.

YES.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE.

THE VALUE THAT RETAIL PROVIDES TO THIS STATE.

26% OF JOBS IN KENTUCKY ARE SUPPORTED BY RETAIL.

AND I KNOW THAT ALL THE FOLKS HERE TONIGHT WANT TO SEE RETAIL SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE IN ORDER TO HAVE A COLLECTION OF SALES TAX, YOU HAVE TO HAVE RETAIL BE A SUCCESS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT IS THAT ANTI-COMPETITIVENESS AND THE IMPACT ON OUR CONSUMERS THAT WE ARE MOST CONCERNED WITH.

AND OUR CONSUMERS ARE THE TAXPAYERS.

CONSUMER SPENDING IS IMPACTED ANY TIME THE PRICE OF A GOOD INCREASES.

IN FACT, THERE'S RECENTLY A STUDY THAT SAYS THAT WHEN YOU INCREASE THE SALES TAX, CONSUMERS EVEN REDUCE THEIR SPENDING ON ITEMS THAT AREN'T SUBJECT TO THE SALES TAX.

AND RETAIL HAS BEEN THE BACKBONE OF OUR ECONOMY FOR A LONG TIME IN THIS COUNTRY, AND WE WANT TO MAINTAIN IT THAT WAY.

IF YOU CAN IMAGINE HAVING TO LOOK AT THIS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A RETAILER, IF YOU HAVE 120 COUNTIES, YOU HAVE OVER 400 CITIES, AND YOU ARE HAVING TO KNOW EXACTLY WHERE AND WHAT SALES TAX YOU'RE APPLYING TO WHAT.

IT IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN ON THE BUSINESS.

I MEAN, RETAILERS TODAY JUST COLLECTING THE SALES TAX AT THE STATE LEVEL IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN.

AND THEY RECEIVE VERY, VERY LITTLE, IF NONE, NO COMPENSATION FOR BEING THE LARGEST SALES TAX COLLECTOR IN THE STATE.

AND ADDITIONALLY, THINK OF A BRICK AND MORTAR BUSINESS LOCATED MAYBE IN SHEPHERDSVILLE AND A COMMUNITY RIGHT ACROSS THE WAY IN MOUNT WASHINGTON.

THAT BUSINESS, THAT BRICK AND MORTAR BUSINESS, THAT COMMUNITY CHOSE NOT TO DO A LOCAL SALES TAX.

AND SO THEREFORE YOU HAVE A SHEPHERDVILLE BUSINESS THAT'S MADE AN INVESTMENT IN A PROPERTY, PAYING PROPERTY TAXES TO THE COMMUNITY, AND HAVING TO CHARGE THE CONSUMER A HIGHER COST THAN THE RETAILER RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD WHO MIGHT BE SELLING THE EXACT SAME GOODS.

WE KNOW CONSUMERS SHOP WITH THEIR FEET.

THEY WILL GO TO GET A BARGAIN AND THEY WILL GO TO PAY LESS.

AND SO WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT WAS PROPOSED IN HOUSE BILL 475 LAST SESSION WAS -- WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS COULD DO ANY TAXES NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THE CONSTITUTION.

THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE REMAINING CONFLICT IN THE CONSTITUTION, AND THAT WOULD BE THAT A LOCAL SALES TAX BASE WOULD HAVE TO MATCH EXACTLY THE STATE SALES TAX BASE.

AND SO WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT A SALES TAX.

THAT'S WHAT'S VERY CRITICAL TO US AND OUR CONSUMERS AND OUR MEMBERS.

BUT WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT BUSINESSES PAY A LOT OF TAXES.

BUSINESSES PAY SALES TAXES.

AND SO THAT IMPACTS THE COST OF GOODS AND OUR ABILITY TO HIRE EMPLOYEES AND WORKERS IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO THINK ABOUT.

WE SEE THIS NOW AS CURRENTLY KENTUCKIANS HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION TO KNOW THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY CANNOT OVERLY EXPAND AND GIVE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THE ABILITY TO TAX LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

WE DO KNOW AND TRUST THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THAT WE ARE WORKING WITH TODAY AND WE ENJOY WORKING WITH THEM.

BUT WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS WHAT THE FUTURE WILL HOLD AND WHAT WILL THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY LOOK LIKE THEN.

THE OTHER CONCERN WITH THE WAY THAT IT IS DRAFTED IS, IS THAT IT GIVES THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY NO FLEXIBILITY TO NARROW THE LOCAL SALES TAX BASE, SO WHAT DO I MEAN?

SO CURRENTLY TODAY BUSINESSES PAY SALES TAX ON UTILITIES.

IF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WERE TO PASS AS WRITTEN, BUSINESSES WOULD HAVE TO PAY NOT JUST THE STATE SALES TAX ON ENERGY THEY CONSUME, THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE TO PAY THE LOCAL SALES TAX SPACE BECAUSE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY COULD NOT NARROW THAT SALES TAX BASE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

THEY WOULD LOSE THAT FLEXIBILITY.

SO I WANT US TO UNDERSTAND THAT'S THE BROADNESS OF OUR CONCERNS ON THIS ISSUE.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR GIVING US YOUR POSITION ON THAT.

SO LEADER THAYER, IS THIS BAD FOR BUSINESS?

IT SOUNDS LIKE IT FROM WHAT MS. STIGLITZ IS SAYING.

>> WELL, MY POSITION IS A LITTLE MORE NUANCED, AND I THINK THE POSITION OF THE SENATE, THAT WOULD BE THE CASE.

FIRST OF ALL, A COUPLE OF THINGS.

THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS.

IR CO-CHAIRED THE ORIGINAL TASK FORCE PROBABLY 19 YEARS AGO THAT RECOMMENDED THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT APPROACH ON THE LOCAL SALES TAX.

I WORK WITH THE LEAGUE OF CITIES ON A HOST OF ISSUES.

I WON THEIR FRIEND OF CITIES AWARD A DOZEN TIMES.

CHAIRMAN MEREDITH, ONE OF MY OLDEST FRIENDS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AND WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER RIGHT NOW ON THE ESPOSITO BETTING BILL, BUT I'M NOT QUITE THERE ON THIS APPROACH JUST YET BECAUSE MY MAIN PERSON ARE THE TAXPAYERS, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF A LOCAL SALES TAX IS LEVIED, THAT IT DOESN'T BECOME A BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYERS IN THAT LOCALITY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME OFFSET PERHAPS ON THE OCCUPATIONAL SIDE, WHICH IS LIKE J.D.

SAID, WE'RE 58% OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS MAKE THEIR MONEY.

BUT I GET CONCERNED ABOUT THE STACKING OF TAXES, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE I LIVE IN GEORGETOWN, IT'S ACTUALLY MORE EXPENSIVE TO BUY ALCOHOL IN GEORGETOWN AND SCOTT COUNTY THAN IN THE CITY OF GEORGETOWN THAN IT IS IN LEXINGTON BECAUSE YOU PAY THE STATE TAXES ABOUT THE THEN IN GEORGETOWN WE HAVE -- BUT THEN IN GEORGETOWN WE HAVE A LOCAL ALCOHOL TAX ON TOP OF THAT, SO IT'S ACTUALLY CHEAPER TO GO CRUZE THE BORDER INTO FAYETTE COUNTY AND BUY ALCOHOL THAN IT IS IN GEORGETOWN, AND MY LOCAL RETAILERS WHERE, OF COURSE, I SHOP FOR BOURBON ON A REGULAR BASIS, THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT.

THEY KNOW THEY'RE AT A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE OF THAT LOCAL TAX THAT'S STACKED ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE.

FAYETTE COUNTY DOESN'T DO THAT.

I KNOW IT'S KIND OF SURPRISING TO HEAR THAT IN ONE CATEGORY TAXES IN FAYETTE COUNTY ARE HIGHER THAN IN SCOTT COUNTY.

A SURE THAT YOU THAT'S THE ONLY CASE WHERE THAT'S THE TRUTH.

BUT THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE LOCAL TAXES COULD BE STACKED.

I ALSO FIND IT, GOING BACK THE TO FIRST SEGMENT OF THIS SHOW, THAT THE LEAGUE OF CITIES IS OPPOSING TO BILLS PROPOSED BY REPRESENTATIVE LOCKETT AND ME BUT THEY'RE ALSO ASKING FOR MORE TAXING AUTHORITY.

WHAT WOULD GIVE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS MORE TRUST FROM THE VOTERS?

ON INCREASING THE TAX BURDEN OR NOT ON THEM?

IF THEY DECLARED THEIR POLITICAL PARTY AFFILIATION.

>> WE MITIGATED THE LAST HALF HOUR, SO LET'S SEE MOVE ON.

>> I'M NEVER GOING TO MISS A CHANCE.

>> I KNOW.

BACK TO YOU, CHAIRMAN MEREDITH, BECAUSE THIS QUESTION, AND LEADER THAYER KIND OF ALLUDED TO THIS AND THIS COMES FROM A VIEWER.

WHY NOT CONSIDER LOWERING LOCAL PROPERTY AND OCCUPATIONAL TAXES TO BE REPLACED WITH A CONSUMPTION TAX?

THE LOCAL PARTISAN SCHOOL BOARDS ARE LINING THEIR COFFERS WITH EXORBITANT PROPERTY TAX MONEY, SAYS THIS PERSON.

>> WELL, I WILL TELL YOU NUMBER ONE, AND I WOULD NOT SAY IT IS FIRMLY AS THEY HAVE IN THAT EMAIL, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE POSITIONS ON WHERE TAXATION IS GOING ON AND WHAT TYPES OF TAXATION, SCHOOL BOARDS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS DO TAKE UP THE BULK OF THE PROPERTY TAX.

THIS EFFORT HAS BEEN FOCUSED MORE ON THE CITY AND COUNTY TAX PIECE.

PROPERTY TAX LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS AND SPECIAL PURPOSE GOVERNMENT ENTITIES MOST OF THE TIME.

CITIES AND COUNTIES' LIFEBLOOD REALLY IS THE OCCUPATIONAL TAX, WHETHER THAT BE THE PAYROLL PORTION OF THE TAX OR THE NET PROFITS PORTION OF THE TAX.

AND SO EVERY SINCE WE STARTED DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE, THAT HAS BEN A COUNTERPOINT TO ALL THOSE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE HAVE HAD.

AND I'LL MAKE IT AS A COUNTERPOINT TO WHAT MS. STIGLITZ SAID IN LOUISVILLE EARLIER OF.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE ARGUMENTS THAT SHE HAS MADE WITH REGARD TO 416 DIFFERENT CITIES, 120 DIFFERENT COUNTIES, WE HAVE THAT TAX STRUCTURE FOR OCCUPATIONAL TAXES ALREADY.

AND ALL BUSINESSES ARE ALREADY HAVING TO MITIGATE AND WORK THROUGH THAT TYPE OF A TAX.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT A NATIONAL PICTURE, AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT IN THIS DISCUSSION, IS WE ARE ONE OF THE TOP FIVE OR SIX MOST RELIANT STATES IN THE NATION ON LOCAL OCCUPATIONAL TAXES FOR THE REVENUE THAT PROVIDE THE BASIC SERVICES TO CITIES AND COUNTIES.

AND IF WE EVER WANT TO REDUCE THAT, WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM ANOTHER OPTION TO REPLACE THAT REVENUE.

AND SO ALL THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'VE HAD WITH THE LEAGUE AND WITH CAKE OH HAVE ALSO BEEN DISCUSSIONS WE'VE HAD WITH GROUPS LIKE THE PEGASUS INSTITUTE THAT WAS IN LOUISVILLE AND WHO WAS A CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK WHO WORKED ON NATIONAL NUMBERS WITH US ON THIS ISSUE.

AND WE KNOW THAT WE'RE OVERLY RELIANT ON THOSE TAXES AND IT MAKES US LESS COMPETITIVE.

SO THAT'S WHAT THIS EFFORT IS REALLY ABOUT, IS MAKING US MORE COMPETITIVE WITH THOSE 38 OTHER STATES THAT ALLOW FOR THIS AND HAVE MOVED AWAY FROM THE LOCAL PRODUCTION-BASED TAXES OVER TIME.

>> SO WHY NOT JUST LIKE A RESTAURANT TAX?

>> I THINK WE NEED SOMETHING MORE COMPREHENSIVE, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THIS EFFORT MAKES SENSE, IS TO LOOK AT A CONSUMPTION BROAD-BASED TAX LIKE WE HAVE AT THE STATE LEVEL.

SHANNON MENTIONED THE ISSUE OF NOT BEING AS BROAD AS THE STATE, BUT THAT PUTS OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE STREAMLINE SALES TAX AGREEMENT WHICH IS A HUGE BENEFIT TO OUR STATE BUDGET AND WOULD CREATE A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

IT WOULD ALSO PROBABLY MOVE AWAY FROM US NEEDING TO DO THE LOCAL -- OR THE STATE COLLECTION INSTEAD OF THE LOCAL COLLECTION THAT WE PROVIDED FOR IN THE CONSTITUTION.

AND I KNOW THAT I RETAILERS AND THEY'RE BUSINESSES WOULD APPRECIATE THAT ONE COLLECTION POINT, CENTRALLY COLLECTED AT THE STATE LEVEL WHICH IS PROVIDED BECAUSE OF STREAMLINING.

>> SO WHAT IS THE PERCENTAGE AMOUNT OF A SALES TAX THAT YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT?

>> THE SALES TAX I THINK WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT WOULD PROBABLY BE SOMETHING LOOK A 1% AT THE CITY LEVEL, A 1% AT THE COUNTY LEVEL WITH POTENTIALLY AN ADDITIONAL HALF PERCENT IF IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO TO EVENTUALLY GET RID OF TOTALLY THE OCCUPATIONAL TAXES OR SOMETHING FOR EITHER JOINT OR REGIONALIZED PROJECTS OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE APPROVED AS A REFERENDUM AFTER THE FACT, BUT THAT WITH ONLY BE ON THAT ADDITIONAL HALF PERCENT.

I THINK WE'D BE LOOKING AT GENERALLY A 1% AT THE CITY LEVEL, 1% AT THE COUNTY MAXIMUM IN THE STATUTORY LANGUAGE WOULD WORK.

>> IT SO TO LEADER THAYER'S CONCERN ABOUT STACKING THESE TAXES, WHAT SAY YOU?

>> WELL, AGAIN, AND I APPRECIATE SENATOR THAYER'S POSITION ON THAT, THE STACKING PORTION WOULD BE WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WITH OFFSETS, IS TRYING TO LOWER THE OCCUPATIONAL, WHETHER THAT BE PRIMARILY STARTING WITH THE NET PROFITS AND LOWERING THAT FIRST ON THE BUSINESS SIDE OR FOCUSING ACROSS THE BOARD ON NET PROFITS AND PAYROLL BOTH AND LOWERING THAT AS WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.

BUT THAT'S HOW WE WOULD REMOVE THE STACKING, GIVING US A PERIOD OF TIME OVER A PERIOD OF FIVE TO TEN YEARS, WHATEVER THAT MAY TAKE, A CITY OR COUNTY TO REALIZE ENOUGH REVENUE FROM THE SALES TAX AT THAT LIMITED LEVEL OF 1% ON EACH SIDE TO LOWER THE TAX ON THE OTHER SIDE.

>> LEADER THAYER.

>> LET'S REMEMBER THIS IS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, SO IT CAN'T GO ON THE BALLOT UNTIL AN EVEN NUMBERED YEAR.

LAST YEAR WE DIDN'T HAVE VOTES IN THE SENATE TO PUT THIS ON THE BALLOT.

I DON'T THINK IF WE PUT IT ON THE BALLOT TODAY IT WOULD PASS.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGHCH AN UNDERSTANDING OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC ABOUT HOW IT WOULD WORK.

IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING THROUGH IT IN A HALF AN HOUR TONIGHT.

I THINK THE PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY ARE GOING TO BE RELUCTANT TO EMBRACE A NEW SYSTEM OF TAXATION BECAUSE THEY'RE RESISTANT TO CHANGE, AND I THINK THAT'S NATURAL.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT STANDS RIGHT NOW.

WE'VE GOT SIX NEW MEMBERS.

WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY AN ISSUE THIS YEAR.

BUT I THINK -- AND THERE ARE LOTS OF FOLKS OUT THERE WHO ARE PROPONENTS OF IT BESIDES THE LEAGUE OF CITIES, THE KENTUCKY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THE REGIONAL COMMERCE LEXINGTON, GLI, NORTHERN KENTUCKY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A BIG EDUCATIONAL EFFORT WITH THE VOTERS IN ORDER TO MOVE ENOUGH MEMBERS OF THE SENATE TO SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THIS BECAUSE THERE'S A RELUCTANCE BECAUSE IT IS SOUNDS LIKE A NEW TAX, AND, YES, THERE ARE -- FIRST IT'S GOT TO PASS THE LEGISLATURE, THEN IT'S GOT TO GO ON THE BALLOT AND PASS, THEN IT'S GOT TO COME BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE TO CRAFT WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE WITH, THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO BE IMPLEMENTED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

I MEAN, TO CHAIRMAN MEREDITH'S CREDIT, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THRESHOLDS THAT HAVE TO BE MET BEFORE IT CAN YOU EVER BE IMPLEMENTED BUT THAT ALSO I THINK MAKES IT A LITTLE MORE CONFUSING, AND IN ORDER TO MOVE MEMBERS OF MY CAUCUS INTO THE YES CATEGORY FROM THE UNDER DECIDED OR NO, I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A BIG EFFORT THAT HAS TO TAKE PLACE AROUND THE STATE TO MOVE PEOPLE IN THIS DIRECTION.

>> SO FROM SCOTT COUNTY, J.D.

CHANEY, THIS QUESTION.

WOULD THERE BE THIS TAX ON CHILD CARE?

>> IT WOULD BE -- THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIOS -- YEAHS JUST TO CLARIFY THAT, THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION WOULD NOT ALLOW CITIES TO DO ANYTHING, WOULD NOT ALLOW COUNTIES TO DO ANYTHING.

IT WOULD ALLOW THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO DECIDE WHAT WE COULD DO.

SO IT'S NOT ADVOCATING FOR PUTTING IN THE CONSTITUTION CITIES GET TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT OR COUNTIES GET TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.

BUT THERE IS A PROVISION IN THAT CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT PROPOSAL THAT WOULD ADD A SECTION THAT REQUIRES THAT THE TAX WOULD HAVE TO BE ON THE SAME BASE AS THE STATE'S TAX BASE.

SO TO THE EXTENT THAT A SALES TAX APPLIES TO ANY CHILD CARE SERVICE, THEN THE LOCAL TAX WOULD APPLY.

AND THAT'S PART OF THAT STREAMLINE SALES AND USE TAX PROVISION, AGREEMENT THAT MICHAEL TALKED ABOUT.

>> THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YES.

>> I BELIEVE THE STATE SALES TAX WOULD APPLY.

>> SO THIS QUESTION FROM JEFF SIMS IN CALDWELL COUNTY.

WHEN CAN YOU LOCAL OFFICIALS AND GOVERNMENTS USE THEIR CURRENT TAV REVENUES TO FUND LOCAL ISSUES AND NOT STATE MANDATED ACTIVITIES?

IF UNFUND STATE MANDATES WERE TAKEN ALL OF THE TABLE, WOULD LOCAL GOVERNMENTS NEED TO RAISE TAXES?

>> COULD HE BEEN MORE SPECIFIC?

WHAT MANDATES?

>> I'M READING WHAT HE WROTE, SIR.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT MANDATES HE'S TALKING ABOUT.

THERE'S A BALANCE BETWEEN WHAT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THE STATE GOVERNMENT DOES, AND A LOT OF WHAT WE TO DO IS MAKE RULES ABOUT WHAT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CAN YOU AND CANNOT DO.

IT'S PART OF THE BALANCE.

LIKE I SAID IN THE EARLIER SEGMENT, THE LEAGUE OF CITIES HAS 38 ITEMS ON ITS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA.

ITS 50 MEMBER BOARD GOT DECIDED AND DECIDED ABOUT THE THING THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO ASK FORT FOR.

SO THEY'RE COMING TO US ASKING FOR THESE CHANGES.

THE IF THEY'RE MANDATES AND BURR BETWEENSOME AND GET IN THE WAY OF THEM GOVERNING AS WELL AT THE LOCAL LEVY HAVE LEVEL WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THEM.

>> WE'RE CREATURES AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SO WE HAVE THIS WONDERFUL WORKING RELATIONSHIP OVER THE YEARS WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY BECAUSE WE ARE SCHOOL BOARD NANT FORMS GOVERNMENT WHICH THANK YOUS DOES NECESSITATE THAT INTERACTION WITH THEIR PARENT GOVERNING AGENCY, AND SENATOR HORNBACK A FEW YEARS AGO ABOUT PASS A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT MAY GO DIRECTLY TO THIS CALDWELL COUNTY QUESTION, THAT PROHIBITED THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY FROM PASSING ANY LEGISLATION ON CITY GOVERNMENTS UNLESS IT WAS FUNDED.

SO NO UNFUNDED MANDATES.

AND WE HAVE -- THIS GENERAL ASSEMBLY OVER THE PAST DECADE PLUS HAS NOT BEEN ONE, AT LEAST FROM A CITY PERSPECTIVE, TO GENEROUSLY HAND DOWN UNMUND FUND MANDATES.

>> RENEE, I WOULD SAY TO THAT, TOO, IF IT'S COUNTY GOVERNMENT THAT WE'RE TAKE SPEAKING ABOUT, I THINK MOST OF THE TIME WHAT YOU WOULD HEAR FROM COUNTIES IS THE JAIL MANDATES AND BURDENS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A MANDATE FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SPUT IT'S SOMETHING LONG STANDING IN OUR STATE WITH OUR JAIL SYSTEM AND CONTINUES TO BE A BURDEN, AND IT CONTINUES TO BE ONE OF THE LARGEST BURDENS FOR COUNTIES.

BUT I WANT TO SAY ONE MORE THING QUICKLY AND TO THE THING LEADER THAYER BROUGHT UP ABOUT GROUPS LIKE COMMERCE LEXINGTON AND THE GREATER LOUISVILLE, INC., NORTHERN KENTUCKY CHAMBER AND THE KENTUCKY CHAMBER BEING SUPPORTIVE OF THIS EFFORT.

THEY SUPPORT THIS EFFORT BECAUSE WE ALL BELIEVE IN CREATING A STRONGER KENTUCKY, AND WYE CREATE A STRONGER KENTUCKY THROUGH CREATING A STRONGER ECONOMY AND WE DO THAT BY BEING MORE COMPETITIVE WITH OTHER STATES.

AND AS WE CREATE A STRONGER KWE ECONOMY, WE HAVE TO ALSO LOOK AT THE WAY THAT WE CREATE STRONGER COMMUNITIES WITHIN THAT ECONOMY.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE WORKING CLASS FOLKS ACROSS KENTUCKY ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR THE BURDEN AT THE STATE LEVEL AND AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, AND WE'VE FRIED TO REDUCE THAT BURDEN AT THE LOCAL LEVEL BUT WE'VE GOT MORE WORK TO DO AT THE ON IT LOCAL LEVEL, AND WE'VE GOT TO ENSURE THAT AS WE DO THAT, WHEN WE HAVE TOURISM AND DEVELOPMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BAY AREA ABLE TO GET THOSE PEOPLE -- WE'RE ABLE TO GET THOSE PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE THOSE COMMUNITIES PAYING FOR THEY ARE SERVICES THAT THEORY CONSUMING AS WELL.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

WE'LL PROBABLY REVISIT THIS AGAIN MAYBE NEXT YEAR AS YOU'VE ALREADY HEARD.

THANK YOU, SHANNON 36 FOR JOINING FROM US OUR LOUISVILLE STUDIO.

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN FOR BEING HERE AND LEADER THAYER FOR HANGING AROUND.

NEXT WALK WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SCHOOL PROMISES BE SURE TO INJO US FOR THAT CONVERSATION.

AND EACH WEEK NIGHT AT 6:30 EVEN, 5:30 CENTRAL FOR "KENTUCKY EDITION."

JOIN BILL BRYANT AND A TEAM OF WORKING JOURNALISTS ON BRING TO DISCUSS THE NEWS OF THE WEEK ON "COMMENT ON KENTUCKY."