Listen to this episode now:
[powerpress]
TRANSCRIPT
Episode 1203

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor:  Coming up — ethics and the Wall Street crisis.  We explore whether anyone was to blame.  And if so, who?

Also, Barefoot College in India where illiterate women learn enough engineering to light up their villages with solar power.

And Christian and Muslim scholars exploring how the people of their religions can learn to live together without war.

Professor MIROSLAV VOLF (Director, Center for Faith and Culture, Yale Divinity School):  We will either love each other as neighbors, or we won’t be.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  Welcome.  I’m Bob Abernethy, it’s good to have you with us.

Amid a week of economic turmoil, religious voices are rallying for America’s poor and most vulnerable.  Christian, Muslim and Jewish leaders gathered in Washington to lobby Congress and the presidential candidates to enact protections for families who’ve been hardest hit.  They said the combination of rising fuel and food prices and the downturn in the nation’s economy are pushing more and more people into poverty.

Reverend LARRY SNYDER (Catholic Charities):  All those things are combining to show that people are coming to us in greater numbers for just the basic necessities.

ABERNETHY:  We’ll have more on ethics and the Wall Street turmoil later in the program.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  Also this week, faith leaders called for increased attention to the suffering caused by Hurricane Ike.  More than 50 people died and millions remain without power and with only limited access to food.  A hundred and eight prominent religious voices signed an interfaith statement calling for the government to provide both short and long-term recovery on the Gulf Coast.  Faith-based groups have also been active in the relief effort.  One Baptist minister said religious groups have been essential in helping people cope with their losses.
Pastor Robert Blakes leads congregations in New Orleans and Houston and has now seen both of them devastated by hurricanes.

Pastor ROBERT BLAKES (New Home Ministries):  We have had experiences in the congregation where we’ve had to kind of deal with people and talk them out, you know, just severe bouts of depression and anxiety, a lot of that.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
BOB ABERNETHY:  Episcopal Bishops have ousted an influential conservative bishop, escalating tensions within the U.S. Episcopal Church.  The vote was 88-to-35 to remove Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan from ministry.  Duncan had previously announced plans to have his diocese secede from the U.S. church because of disagreements with its stance on homosexuality and scriptural interpretations.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  Now, the financial crisis:  more failures, fears, realignment, layoffs on Wall Street, with consequences around the world.  Is anyone to blame?  We explore the ethical issues underlying the financial meltdown with Rebecca Blank, an economist, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and co-author of the book, “Is the Market Moral?”

Dr. Blank, welcome.

REBECCA BLANK (Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution and Co-author, “Is the Market Moral”?):  Thank you.

ABERNETHY:  So, in the movie “Wall Street,” we were told that “greed is good.”  If that’s true to what extent was greed responsible for all that’s happened?

Dr. BLANK:  Greed is clearly partially responsible for where we are right now.  But greed is good to most economists.  It’s greed that makes people work harder, be more productive and helps the economy grow.

ABERNETHY:  Greed is good even though it’s a sin?

Dr. BLANK:  Yeah, well greed has certain economic advantages.  It’s hard for an economist not to say that.  But, there’s a level by one in which greed can go too far.   And I being greedy for more goods and to make another buck can stop paying attention to the effects of my action on you.  And that is when greed clearly becomes sinful, even I think in the economic books and can lead to the sort of situation that we’re in right now.

ABERNETHY:  And that’s what happened in these cases.  People were, traders were encouraged to take big risks and not pay attention to all the costs that there would be for people down the line if those risks didn’t pay off.

Dr. BLANK:  That’s certainly true in part, but I will also say that there was also culture where what those traders were doing was what everyone in all the cubicles next to them were doing. And, you know, there’s always the question of, “to what extent is that an excuse — and a justifiable excuse?”  There were also a lot of people at the very beginning of this — the whole sub-prime crisis that started this off — who saw themselves as providing more funds for low-income families.  They were doing a good thing.  So, motives here are very mixed.  I think it’s hard to say this is all about greed.

ABERNETHY:  What about justice?  Was there injustice involved?

Dr. BLANK:  So, you know, we love a world in which the people in the white hats get rewarded and the people in the black hats pay the price.  And that I have to say doesn’t happen very often, particularly in a very complex economy.  We’re in a time of panic right now where people have lost trust in what the banks are doing, what the investment firms are doing — lost trust beyond a level of reasonableness, to be honest.  And, it’s got to be stopped.  And, you know, taking in account that fear and panic in many ways is more important than assigning blame one way or the other.

ABERNETHY:   We all do want to assign blame though.

Dr. BLANK:  Yes, we sure do.

ABERNETHY:   We look for villains.  Are there no villains in this?

Dr. BLANK:  Yes, I do think there are a few villains, but it’s probably too strong a word.  There is you say, there are leadership particularly in some of these banks that were not open at all about what they were doing and how they were bundling . . .

ABERNETHY:   Did they understand what they were doing?  Is there a question of competence here?

Dr. BLANK:  Well, that’s an open question.  I think that is part of a question.  There’s also a real question on the part of regulation.  You know, there were no requirements here for greater openness and greater transparency and of course that’s now what’s being called for.  But that should have been called for long ago.  And it is the role of government to create, if you will, responsible greed to keep boundaries around what people do.

ABERNETHY:  Government perhaps?  And how about the boards of directors and the people who are running some of these companies?

Dr. BLANK:  No, I think there is certainly leadership questions here about competence and understanding and not paying attention to the risks that they were taking.

ABERNETHY:   And trying to put some limit on the greed?

Dr. BLANK:  Yeah.  And of course if you ask these people three and four years ago, “How do you justify multimillion dollar salaries and huge bonuses?,” their answer would have been, “We are in a high-risk industry, so we deserve this.”  Under those circumstances you then can’t feel very sorry when they lose at the other side of the risk.  But of course, there are a lot of people who weren’t in a high-risk industry who are also losing the clerical people, the maintenance folks.

ABERNETHY:   Rebecca Blank of the Brookings Institution, many thanks.

Dr. BLANK:  Thank you.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  We have a story today about a remarkable project in India that teaches rural, usually illiterate women enough engineering so they can construct, install and maintain solar power in their villages.  But, a warning:  there is material here that may be disturbing to men, who are said to be un-trainable and interested only in moving to the big city.
Fred de Sam Lazaro reports from Barefoot College in the Indian state of Rajasthan.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO:  The students are mostly women.  Some are grandmothers.  Hundreds have come through here from villages across India and a dozen other countries to learn how to install and maintain solar energy in rural areas.

Even though it’s sophisticated coursework, the only pre-requisite for admission to the Barefoot College is that there are no pre-requisites, not even to speak the language.

Until we arrived with a translator, these Mauritanian women — who’d been here four months —hadn’t spoken to anyone else in Arabic, the only language they know.  But language is not a barrier to learning, says the College’s founder.

BUNKER ROY (Founder, Barefoot College):  Our job is to show how it is possible to take an illiterate woman and make her into an engineer in six months and show that she can solar-electrify a village.

DE SAM LAZARO:  Bunker Roy, a social activist influenced by Gandhi, founded the Barefoot College in 1972.  He wanted to use traditional knowledge and sustainable technology to help this impoverished desert region.  It began with basics, like finding safe drinking water, then several years later, solar energy.

Mr. ROY:  In 1986, no one ever thought of solar electrification.  It was far too expensive.  But today we have 50 kilowatts of panels on our roofs.  All our 20, 30 computers, electronic machines, telephone exchange — all work off solar.

DE SAM LAZARO:  Today solar energy drives not just the equipment.  This is a larger social experiment to improve the lives of some of the world’s poorest people.  It begins in the classroom run by instructors who themselves have little or no formal education.  Instruction is delivered with a mix of body language, a few essential terms in English, and lots of hands-on practice.

The students create an illustrated manual they’ll take home.  It’s the closest thing to a diploma certifying their training as solar technicians.  But just coming here is an unlikely achievement for students like 56 year-old Sarka Mussara, a widowed grandmother.  She’d never attended school or even left her village in the West African nation of Mauritania.

SARKA MUSSARA (Student, through translator):  At first we did not even have a passport.  We started little-by-little learning the solar energy system.  Day-by-day and little-by-little we were able to put things together.

Mr. ROY (talking with students): I have been to two villages in Mauritania…

DE SAM LAZARO:  Roy was educated at elite Indian schools, on a path to medicine or diplomatic service, before he founded the Barefoot College.  The idea of self reliant learning was inspired by Mahatma Gandhi; also by a legendary American.

Mr. ROY:  Well, it’s Mark Twain who said, “Never let school interfere with your education.” School is something that you learn reading and writing.  Education is what you learn from the family, from the environment, from the community.

DE SAM LAZARO:  Using grants from the U.N. and private foundations, Roy travels extensively in developing countries, seeking potential students.  He doesn’t want city dwellers or — unless they are physically handicapped — men.

Mr. ROY:  We’ve come to the sad conclusion men are un-trainable.  They expect too much.  They are restless.  If they’re young, they’re impatient.  The first thing they ask even before the training starts is, “Do I get a certificate?”   They will use that certificate to get the worst job possible in a city.  Whereas, if we take middle-aged grandmothers to be trained I don’t have that problem of migration.

DE SAM LAZARO:  Their new skills and income should improve these women’s standing at home and in the community — communities that, like much of the developing world are not electrified.

Mr. ROY (to students, through translator): How many houses are in the town?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN STUDENT #1: About 500 people.

Mr. ROY:  500.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN STUDENT #2 (speaking to Mr. Roy, through translator):  May God reward you for what you have done because those people did not have any light and now they will have light.

DE SAM LAZARO:  And these women will have an income installing and maintaining solar systems.  They are a common sight in villages near the Barefoot campus where people have replaced lanterns that use dirtier and more expensive fuels.

Mr. ROY:  We said they should pay as much as you pay today for kerosene, for wood, for batteries, for torches, for candles — comes to about $5 a month.  They’re willing to pay $5 a month for the use of a solar light.

DE SAM LAZARO:  Solar has opened new opportunities for work and study, especially for girls. In both the majority Hindu and minority Muslim communities here, girls have traditionally been restricted to household chores.

Mr. ROY:  It is the girls who go and graze the cattle and graze the goats and the sheep. There is a feeling in the family that the boys should be getting better education — better education, whatever that means.  So we started the night schools of Tilonia in 1975, purely from the point of view of attracting more girls who graze cattle in the morning to come to school at night.

DE SAM LAZARO:  Today some 7,000 children attend night school, here and across rural north India.  In song, these girls plead to their parents to allow them to study, to delay marriage until they turn the legal age of 18.  That law is frequently ignored in rural society

PUPPETEER (during performance speaking with kids, through translator): OK, eight and five make how much.

KIDS (through translator): 13.

PUPPETEER:  And 10 plus three?

KIDS (through translator): 13.

DE SAM LAZARO:  Entertainment programs promote the Barefoot College and encourage children to attend school.  There have also been various other campaigns to promote public health and citizen demands for government transparency.  The new economic activity seems to be eroding social barriers.  For example, several women work to create solar stoves, a Barefoot College enterprise.  The solar cookers made at the Barefoot College are a simple but precisely engineered contraption.  These mirrors track and capture the sun’s energy and direct it to a cooker, which really cooks!

For these technicians, most with little or no formal education, working here means they can hope for better things for their children.

SITA DEVI (Solar Technician, trough translator):  My daughter must be educated.  She will be able to do things, to progress so much faster than I can because of going to school more.  For me, for example, it takes so much more time to measure out three centimeters when I’m welding here.   Whereas someone who is educated could do it in no time.

SHAHNAZ BANU (Solar Technician, through translator): In our village, in our community, women were not allowed outside the house.  My husband was reluctant.  But I said, “If we stay behind the veil we won’t have anything to eat.”  Some people object to women working but if we can add income to the household that’s a good thing, isn’t it?

DE SAM LAZARO:  Roy says a key to sustaining rural jobs and development is to use technology that can be managed by the local community, like solar lanterns and technology that’s more familiar like rainwater collectors.

Mr. ROY:  All the roofs of this whole campus are connected underground to a 400,000 liter tank. We collect every drop of rain that walks, that falls on the campus.

DE SAM LAZARO:  For Roy, decentralization is the key. It’s a departure from the typical approach of aid agencies, which he says want to bring big infrastructure and big ideas created by outside experts.

Mr. ROY: If you ask an engineer what they think is the solution, they’ll have one power plant of five kilowatts that you saw on the roofs of the campus and then have transmission lines going to the houses, centralized.  We say “no.”  The solution is decentralized right down to the household level, where the house actually maintains and looks after the solar unit.  It shouldn’t be centralized.  Any technology that brings in dependency on anybody on the outside is not a technology that will work.

DE SAM LAZARO:  So far, Barefoot College has solar electrified some 350 villages across India and dozens more in Sub-Saharan Africa and even war-torn Afghanistan.

For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, this is Fred De Sam Lazaro in Rajasthan, India.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  Europeans have an increasingly negative view of both Jews and Muslims, according to the Global Attitudes survey by the Pew Research Center.  The new analysis found that Spain showed the largest jump in anti-Semitism.  Forty-six percent rated Jews unfavorably, up from about 21 percent three years ago.  In Russia and Poland, anti-Semitic attitudes grew from about a quarter three years ago to more than a third today.

Negative attitudes toward Muslims were even more prevalent.  Half the respondents in Spain and many rated Muslims unfavorably.  More than a third did so in France.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  Especially since 9-11, major Christian and Muslim scholars and religious officials have been working together to find ways believers in each religion can live side by side in peace.

Next month at the Vatican, the Pope is due to meet leading Muslims.  This past summer, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia sponsored an interfaith conference in Spain.  More such conferences are scheduled in Britain, Jordan and Washington, D.C.

And at Yale University recently there was a major week-long gathering of top Muslim and primarily Protestant leaders.

Nearly 150 Muslim and Christian scholars from 37 countries were invited to the Yale conference by its co-organizers, Professor Miroslav Volf of the Yale Divinity School and Prince Ghazi of Jordan, religious adviser to Jordan’s king.

What they called the “Common Word” that united them was love of God and love of neighbor.  They also acknowledged their common fear of the catastrophe that could occur if Christians and Muslims — half the world’s population — became enemies.

Professor MIROSLAV VOLF (Director, Center for Faith and Culture, Yale Divinity School):  If we don’t learn to live with one another we will not live.  We will either love each other as neighbors or we won’t be.  I believe that it is an insult to me as a Christian to say that I cannot love as neighbor somebody who thinks differently than I do.  Where did we ever get that idea?

ABERNETHY:  The Christian and Muslim scholars spoke openly not only about the ideas they share but about their big, sometimes clashing differences, practical and theological.  For instance, over the nature of God, Muslims disagree strongly with the Christian doctrine of the Trinity — God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Dr. SAYYED HOSSEIN NASR (University Professor of Islamic Studies, George Washington University):  For Muslims, only God can be divine — God in his oneness and his absoluteness and his not having anything like it.  And that means that Islam opposes or even cannot understand the idea of certain Christians concerning the Trinity, in which really you have three divines.

ABERNETHY:  For Christians, terrorism is a major concern.  But Volf notes that violent Islamic extremism is backed by only a very small minority of Muslims, and that Christianity
also has practiced violence.

Prof. VOLF:   Incredible violence has been perpetrated in the name of Christian faith, even though love of God, love of neighbor, are at the heart of that faith.  I think something similar may be said of Islam as well.

ABERNETHY:  A big issue for Muslims is when Christian evangelizing — telling people about the faith — becomes proselytizing, actively trying to convert.  Some Muslims say Christian evangelizing seems like colonialism.

Dr. NASR:  That’s a very, very major problem that cannot be overlooked and cannot be put in the closet.  I think the evangelicals have to rethink this issue.

ABERNETHY:  Leith Anderson, President of the National Association of Evangelicals, insists that evangelical Christians must share their faith.  But he says they can do that respectfully.

LEITH ANDERSON (President, National Association of Evangelicals):  We proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ and we welcome the opportunity for people to believe.  There’s a difference between that and proselytizing.  And in my definition, proselytizing can be coercive.  It can be manipulative.  I don’t think there is ever an excuse to be disrespectful to other people.

Prof. VOLF:   If evangelism isn’t an expression of love of neighbor, it isn’t Christian evangelizing.  And love of neighbor includes not only what I say to the neighbor but how I say that.  I’m very hopeful, though it’s a thorny, and certainly, an issue right now that tears the communities apart.

ABERNETHY:  Many Muslim believers want to convert Christians to Islam.

Prof. VOLF:   They believe that Islam contains the truth about God.  Islam is not just an option.  Islam is not like one of the many dishes: you like Thai chicken and I like pizza and that’s fine.  They believe Islam to be a matter of truth and not simply a matter of taste.

ABERNETHY:  And so do Christians?

Prof. VOLF:   And so do Christians, exactly.

ABERNETHY:  Many Muslim countries are closed to missionaries, a policy Christians see as a denial of religious liberty.

Prof. VOLF:   Does a person have a right to change his or her own religion? This is a fundamental human right, just like a right to freedom of speech.

ABERNETHY:  Volf says dialogue can help resolve many differences, and that even when it can’t, Christians and Muslims can still get along.  On issues such as global warming and helping the poor, Volf believes Christians and Muslims can and should work together.  Meanwhile, he says his personal encounter with Islam has strengthened his Christianity.

Prof. VOLF:   I will tell you very, quite honestly after my engagement with Muslim friends, I pray more than I used to pray.  My prayer life has been enriched by my encounter with some Muslims, encouraged by their devotion and also enriched by the ways in which they pray.  Have I compromised in this way at all?  No, to the contrary, I’ve gone deeper in my faith and I think my love for God has been deepened and made more intelligent in a sense, more rich by that very encounter.

ABERNETHY:  As he helped close the conference, Volf returned to his view of what’s at stake.

Prof. VOLF (speaking to conference participants):   Either love or death — when you think about it, this is the challenge that we face today.  Let us learn to love all our neighbors and let us do that in the name of our common future and in the name of our one God.

ABERNETHY:  Prince Ghazi read the final conference document, affirming, among other points, that God is absolute, his love infinite; and that everyone has a right to the preservation of life, dignity and religion.

Prince GHAZI (Special Advisor to H.M. King Abdullah II, Jordan, speaking to conference participants):  Have we anybody who will not sign his name to this of the participants?

ABERNETHY:  No one spoke.

Prince GHAZI:  Thank you.

ABERNETHY:  None of the participants claimed resolution of their differences.  But, in Prince Ghazi’s words, they hoped their joint commitment to loving God and neighbor will help all religions heal, not wound.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  As Muslims around the world observe the holy month of Ramadan, President Bush hosted his annual Iftar dinner at the White House.  More than 100 Muslim leaders joined the president to break their daytime fast.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BOB ABERNETHY:  That’s our program for now.  I’m Bob Abernethy.  There’s much more on our Web site, including political coverage and analysis on our “One Nation” page.  Audio and video podcasts of our program are also available.  Join us at pbs.org.

As we leave you, scenes from Pope Benedict’s trip to Lourdes, France, last week.  Benedict celebrated the 150th anniversary of the appearance of the Virgin Mary to a young peasant girl.

###

© 2008 WNET-TV.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Prepared by Burrelle’s Information Services, which takes sole responsibility for accuracy of transcription.  No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research.  User may not reproduce any copy of the material except for user’s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be reproduced, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any manner that may infringe upon WNET-TV’s copyright or proprietary interests in the material.

Listen to this episode now:
[powerpress]
TRANSCRIPT
Episode #1202

DEBORAH POTTER, guest anchor: Coming up — wanted by the police, these people are turning themselves in, not at a police station, but at a church.

PETE ELLIOTT (U.S. Marshals Service): People have asked me why a church, and it’s simple — churches give hope.

POTTER: And he’s a renowned neurosurgeon with a trust in God and a healthy sense of humility.

Dr. BEN CARSON (Pediatric Neurosurgeon, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions): I pray before I go into the operating room for every case, and I ask him to give me wisdom to help me to know what to do.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: Welcome. I’m Deborah Potter sitting in for Bob Abernethy. Thank you for joining us.

As Hurricane Ike bore down on the U.S. Gulf Coast, faith-based groups were responding to the devastation in Haiti, battered by four major tropical storms since mid-August. More than 300 people died, tens of thousands of homes were damaged, and nearly all of the country’s farmland was flooded. Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. While aid has been arriving there, distribution has been difficult. The storms also caused death and damage in Cuba, and U.S. Catholic bishops are asking the Bush administration to let Americans travel there and send money for humanitarian relief.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: This past week, the country marked the seventh anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.

A moment of silence in New York, Washington and Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

In Washington, President Bush led a ceremony at the White House and also visited the Pentagon, where he dedicated a new memorial to the victims of the attack there. In New York, families of victims gathered at Ground Zero to hear the annual recitation of the names of those who died. Presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama also visited the site and later appeared together at a summit on volunteering and national service. The two agreed to suspend political advertising for the day and focus their attention on remembering the attacks and the victims.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: The U.S. Catholic bishops have raised concerns about what they called “recent misleading remarks” by prominent Catholic politicians about Church teachings on abortion.

The bishops took Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden to task for his comments on NBC’s “Meet the Press”:

SENATOR JOSEPH BIDEN (Democratic Vice Presidential Candidate, during appearance on “Meet the Press”): I’m prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception. But that is my judgment. For me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society.

POTTER: The bishops said protecting all unborn children is a demand of justice, not an imposition of personal religious conviction. They also strongly disputed Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s recent claim that quote “doctors of the church” have disagreed on when life begins.

Joining me now to discuss all of this is our Managing Editor Kim Lawton. And it seems that social issues and abortion, in particular, have become sort of front and center again in the presidential campaign.

KIM LAWTON (Managing Editor, RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY): Well, it’s really interesting. Thirty-five years after Roe v. Wade, abortion is still a really volatile political issue for both parties. We see the Democrats struggling with how to maintain their very strong position on pro-choice, and also to try to encourage and appeal to people who are against abortion — especially some Catholics and maybe even some evangelicals. So, that’s been a struggle for them. And we see with Joe Biden, they’re not exactly sure how to do that — to keep everybody happy. On the flipside, the Republicans are also making this a big deal and they have a lot of voters who base their vote on abortion. And certainly the selection of Sarah Palin who’s against abortion, even in cases of rape and incest, was something that made those voters very happy.

POTTER: Well, it has energized the evangelical voting population apparently, but is there a potential downside to this from the McCain campaign’s perspective?

LAWTON: Well, we’ve been reporting that evangelicals and conservative Catholics who were very lukewarm about John McCain have been thrilled with the selection of Sarah Palin. And so they’re working harder and they are energized. But that in turn seems to be energizing people in the more liberal and moderate community who don’t want to see an energized Religious Right. And so you see this sort of contentious situation building. And, I think religious moderates and liberals are a lot better organized than they were even four years ago.

POTTER: Do you see this energy among evangelicals continuing if the McCain campaign essentially steps back and says, “Well, we’ve done what you asked. We’ve picked the right person. We’re obviously on your side. Now we don’t have to do more”?

LAWTON: Well, that’s one of the concerns I’m hearing a lot from the social conservatives that they want McCain himself, as well as Sarah Palin herself, to speak out about some of their issues — not just assume that everybody knows where they’re going to stand. They want to see them coming to some of their events, their rallies, personally, and really rallying the troops. And they don’t want to be taken for granted.

POTTER: Kim, I’m sure you’ll be watching this for us. Thank you so much. And, we have more campaign coverage and analysis on the “One Nation” page of our Web site. Join us at pbs.org.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: A major leader in the American Muslim community and one of the nation’s most influential religious figures died this week. W.D. Mohammed was 74. He preached a moderate, mainstream Islam and offered American Muslims an alternative to the militant Nation of Islam. Mohammed’s father, Elijah, led the Nation of Islam and promoted black nationalism and black superiority. When Elijah died in 1975, his son took over. Mohammed renamed the organization and encouraged followers to focus on the tenets of the faith and embrace outsiders.

In an interview with RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY in 1997, Mohammed explained why he shifted the focus of his father’s organization.

W.D. MOHAMMED: God says to us in our holy book, the Qur’an, he did not make us tribes and nations for us to think ourselves superior to the other. He wants us to know each other because there is an experience and knowledge that the whole humanity can benefit from.

POTTER: Not all welcomed Mohammed’s approach. Louis Farrakhan revived the Nation of Islam with its former focus. Nonetheless, Mohammed spawned a movement with more followers and became a respected voice among religious leaders worldwide.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: Many people go to church to give themselves up to God. But a few have been going to specific churches lately to give themselves up — period. From Memphis, Lucky Severson explains

LUCKY SEVERSON: Nineteen-year-old Edacious and her cousin are on their way to church. She’s not here to worship — she’s here to surrender. There’s a warrant for her arrest on marijuana charges, and she has come to this church to turn herself in. Hundreds of others with outstanding warrants have also shown up.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN #1: Just to get this off my record. You know, to clear my conscience, for one thing.

SEVERSON: This is part of a two-year-old program, coordinated by the Justice Department, called “Fugitive Safe Surrender.” It’s the brainchild of Pete Elliott, a member of the U.S. Marshals Service.
PETE ELLIOTT (U.S. Marshals Service): People have asked me, “Why a church?” And it’s simple — churches give hope.

SEVERSON: A week earlier, Memphis religious leaders and law enforcement had announced, at a well-publicized news conference, that, for four days fugitives — people wanted by the law for whatever reason — would be allowed to turn themselves in at a well-known church — this one in the African-American community. The church would be staffed with prosecutors, judges and court personnel.

DAVID KUSTOFF (U.S. Attorney, speaking at news conference): And most importantly, volunteers from New Salem Missionary Baptist Church to greet people and to welcome them as they come in, so that they can come in to an environment that is non-hostile.

DAVID JOLLEY. (U.S. Marshal Service, speaking at news conference): This color flyer that you’ll see on this table up here is the flyer that the pastors have been taking back to their congregations this is the flyer pastors take back to congregations and their congregations have been handing out through the community.

MARK LUTTRELL (Sheriff, Shelby County, Memphis, Tennessee, speaking at news conference): Many of these people will be able to clear up several warrants, which will make them law-abiding citizens and return them to the community in a productive way and will certainly assist us in law enforcement in clearing up this huge backlog.

SEVERSON: And what a backlog it was — 37,000 outstanding warrants in Memphis alone.

The program got started in Cleveland two years ago. Memphis is now the sixth city to try it. In every case the program has exceeded expectations. Memphis is no exception.

Felony suspects who showed up were taken into custody, but most of those turning themselves in were wanted for minor offenses. A surprising number say that until now they felt they had no place to surrender. They’re afraid of the police and sheriff’s departments. They’re afraid of going to jail. Many fugitives view the Memphis Justice Building itself as a place where people get lost, and never found: the notorious 201 Poplar Street.

Pastor FRANK RAY (New Salem Missionary Baptist Church): 201 Poplar is a threat to most of them. And the reason is that you can go there, and what they did here in 30 minutes or an hour, two hours, it may take three days — that you can go there and surrender yourself. It may be three days before they’ll even hear your case. And you’re going to be stuck in prison for that many days. And some people have even gotten lost in the system.

Mr. JOLLEY: I think every major city has this big intimidating-looking downtown jail. We certainly have one here. And coming to church and taking care of this, as opposed to going down there, that’s a strong appeal to a lot of people.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I’m here to turn myself in on a warrant for driving on a suspended and a DUI charge which I got four years ago in Memphis.

SEVERSON: Why are you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN #2: Violation of probation.

SEVERSON: Lots of the fugitives are accompanied by family members. This man brought a member of the clergy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE MINISTER: I came here to support him, to let him know it’s OK to go ahead and turn it around and put this behind him. And you can stop looking over your shoulder.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN #3: Man, I’ve had these warrants for probably five years. So it’s time. It’s hard, it’s hard to get a job. It’s hard to do anything.

SEVERSON: With the warrants?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN #3: Yeah, it’s rough. I mean, I really haven’t got anything to lose. I’ve got to start over. I need my life back.

SEVERSON: Jobs, food stamps, education — these things are out of reach for people with outstanding warrants. While they lineup to be processed, its red wristbands for fugitives, green ones for family members. The sheriff’s department doesn’t have the resources to round up the numbers of people who will turn themselves in over a four-day period. Here in Memphis, that was 1,500 people. First, their warrants are verified. They’re all fingerprinted and photographed. Then they wait for their turn in court.

Why was this church chosen? Because its pastor is respected in the community. Fugitives apparently trust the church more than they trust the police.

Pastor RAY: There’s been somewhat of a division between the justice system and the community, especially the religious community.

SEVERSON: Of the fugitives who have surrendered so far, 85 percent said they came in because it was a church.

Does it feel better to you, coming here to a church?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN #3: Yeah, yeah.

SEVERSON: Rather than going to a big justice building?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN #3: Yeah, that makes a whole lot of difference.

SEVERSON: Because it’s a church, does that make any difference? I mean, does it feel like it’s a little more welcoming?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN #3: Well, that was my thought.

SEVERSON: Most cases are heard the same day, and the outcomes may be more lenient than they would be downtown.
MARY THORSBERG (Assistant District Attorney General): We try to fashion a settlement that will let these people get this over with today and go home with their cases disposed of.

Judge LOYCE LAMBERT RYAN (General Sessions Court, Division 15, Shelby County, Memphis, Tennessee): Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

SEVERSON: The courtroom itself is in a chapel adjacent to the main church. Those who surrender are moved through as quickly as possible.
Judge RYAN: You understand by pleading guilty you’re waiving your rights? You’re charged with violation of probation. I’m going to release you on your own recognizance. All right sir, I’ll accept your plea and sentence you on the offense of driving on suspended license: one day in jail; credit for one day, October 22, to pay your costs. If you do not appear on September 26 then another warrant will be issued for you again. Do you understand that?

SEVERSON: Although Memphis is only about 60 percent black, almost all those who turned themselves in were African-American. One reason they are issued so many warrants, according to the Judge, is economics.

Judge RYAN: It becomes a revolving financial cycle — that if you don’t pay your reinstatement fee, you don’t pay your moving violations, it piles up. And so it’s a matter of finances. So it gets back down to core issues of poverty and income.

SEVERSON: Even though this is a church, some who showed up were afraid it might be a trap — a police sting operation.

Mr. ELLIOTT: We’ve done these things in the past. We’ve done them all over the country. I’ve been part of those, where we give out a free TV set to somebody, call them up: free Super Bowl tickets, free tickets for football, baseball game. Those things work. But it doesn’t build any trust between law enforcement and the community.

SEVERSON: Elliott’s idea for fugitive safe surrender sprang from an incident in Cleveland when a police officer — a friend of his — was shot and killed making a routine traffic stop. The officer didn’t know the driver was wanted under a fugitive warrant.

Mr. JOLLEY: There’s always the possibility of a violent confrontation, for whatever reason, even on the smallest warrants. It may be that the person just didn’t want to go to jail that day, or they had something in their possession they didn’t want the officer to find. You see all these car chases on TV — the helicopters flying overhead, guys running through stop signs and red lights, and they don’t know why, you know. Officer tried to pull him over and he took off. They can’t figure out why.

Mr. ELLIOTT: For every fugitive that peacefully and voluntarily surrenders that’s one less dangerous confrontation our law enforcement officers have to have on the streets. I’ve been in law enforcement going on 25 years now. I feel the most comfort in my life when I’m at church. I feel the most peace when I’m at church. And I felt that individuals in the community that were wanted were basically no different than me.

SEVERSON: There was good news for the man who had brought a minister with him: turns out there was no warrant for his arrest after all. But if this hadn’t been a church, he probably wouldn’t have shown up, wouldn’t have found out.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN #3: Well, by doing it at a church, man, you know — the church always has their arms open for you. It’s a safe spot.

SEVERSON: At least five other cities are hoping now to offer the surrender program. So, your criminal justice system may soon be coming to a church near you.

For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, I’m Lucky Severson in Memphis.

POTTER: Since we first broadcast that report last fall, the program has expanded. In Detroit this spring, 6,500 people turned themselves in over four days, including 600 felons.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: How does a self-described slow learner wind up winning the nation’s highest civilian honor? Dr. Ben Carson, a recipient this year of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, says it took a combination of risk-taking and faith. He’s now a prominent surgeon, an author and a motivational speaker. In an interview we aired earlier this year, Carson talked with Kim Lawton about his work and his beliefs.

KIM LAWTON: Ben Carson knows a lot about risk. As one of the leading pediatric neurosurgeons in the world, Carson makes life and death decisions nearly every day. And he has gained international fame for his work separating twins joined at their heads. Carson believes risk can be a good thing. But he says most Americans are obsessed with security.

Dr. BEN CARSON (Pediatric Neurosurgeon, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions): A lot of people simply don’t realize their potential because they’re just so risk adverse. They just don’t want to take the risk.

LAWTON: Carson is a committed Seventh-day Adventist. He says when he makes his own risk assessments, he seeks guidance from God.

Dr. CARSON: I pray before I go into the operating room for every case. And I ask Him to give me wisdom, to help me to know what to do — and not only for operating but for everything.

LAWTON: Faith and risk have defined Carson’s life, both personally and professionally. He directs pediatric neurosurgery at the Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in Baltimore, Maryland. In addition to his work with conjoined twins, Carson has pioneered surgical techniques to stop seizures. Not bad for a kid from inner-city Detroit who many people would have written off.

Dr. CARSON: I was definitely an at-risk kid growing up. You know, my parents got divorced early on. My mother only had a third grade education, was illiterate, worked as a domestic two to three jobs at a time because she didn’t want to be on welfare. I was considered the dummy in the classroom when I was in fifth grade and I just didn’t believe that I could do the work so I engaged myself, you know, by creating disturbances.
LAWTON: His mother, Sonya Carson, prayed for wisdom on how to help her two sons. She mandated that they write two book reports a week for her.

Dr. CARSON: Not knowing she couldn’t read, I mean, she would highlight and checkmark and stuff and we’d think she was reading them. But she could always discuss them with you. She said, “Let’s talk about your book report.” It only really took a month maybe before I started to enjoy the reading. Something happened. I got to the point where I couldn’t wait to get home and read my books.

LAWTON: He began seeing a future for himself. But Carson says he faced another challenge: his explosive temper. He was often getting in fights. Then, when he was 14, he tried to stab a friend but the knife blade hit the boy’s belt buckle.

Dr. CARSON: It dawned upon me at that moment I was trying to kill somebody over nothing. And, you know, I locked myself in the bathroom and I just started thinking about it and I said, “You’re not going to accomplish your dream of becoming a doctor; you’re going to end up in jail or reform school or dead.”

LAWTON: He says he prayed for God’s help and then picked up a Bible, which opened to the “Book of Proverbs” and verses about anger. He believes God took away his temper and enabled him to become a surgeon. Carson still reads from the “Book of Proverbs” every day. He says it’s part of his spiritual preparation for surgery.

Dr. CARSON: My strong belief is that God created human beings and therefore He knows about every aspect of the human body. So if I want to fix it, I just need to stay in harmony with Him.

LAWTON: For Carson, surgery is often a spiritual experience.

Dr. CARSON: When I look at the human brain I’m still in awe of it. Every single time you lift off the bone and open the dura and there it is — the human brain — the thing that gives a person a personality, that distinguishes each one of us. I don’t particularly like, you know, cutting the brain. It’s such a beautiful thing, why cut it? And I’m not even sure I like surgery. But I like what it does.

LAWTON: Seeing the mechanics of the body, he says, has taught him about the non-tangible aspects of life.

Dr. CARSON: We are more than just flesh and bones. There’s a certain spiritual nature and something of the mind that we can’t measure. We can’t find it. With all our sophisticated equipment, we cannot monitor or define it, and yet it’s there.

LAWTON: Carson has had many high-profile cases. In his new book “Take the Risk,” he describes one of the toughest decisions of his career. In 2003, he was asked to be part of a surgical team trying to separate 29-year-old Iranian twins whose skulls were fused together. The surgery had a less than 50 percent chance of success. Carson was reluctant, but then he met Ladan and Laleh Bijani.

Dr. CARSON: They said, “Doctor, we would rather die than spend another day together.” And, you know, that kind of takes you aback. But then I put myself in their place and I said, “What if you were stuck to the person you liked the most in the world 24-seven and you could never get away from them for even one second?” And I realized what they were going through.

LAWTON: He ultimately decided to be part of the controversial surgery, which took place in Singapore.

Dr. CARSON: It became very clear as time went on that they were going to go through with the operation whether I helped or not. So at that point, you know I started thinking there’s not a very good chance of success here, so I’d better go and help because if they die I’m going to wonder for the rest of my life if it could have turned out differently if I would have helped.

LAWTON: Despite his help, after more than 50 hours of surgery, Ladan died. And then Laleh died 90 minutes after that.

Dr. CARSON: I always say if God didn’t allow any bad things to happen, we would already be in heaven. And we are not there. That’s where trust and faith comes in. You just say, “Lord, I don’t understand it. But one thing I do know is that you understand it and that you are in control and I trust you.” And that’s the end of the story.

LAWTON: At 56, he says he has seen many miracles too. It’s tough to keep up with him as he visits his many patients in the pediatric intensive care unit. His staff calls this the “lightning rounds.” And despite the pace, there’s always time for a personal word with the patients and a hug from grateful families.

And he has been forced to face his own mortality. In 2002, he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. After treatment, Carson says he’s now cancer-free.

Carson tries to have an impact outside the operating room. In 2004, he was appointed to the President’s Council on Bioethics. And Carson has become a vocal advocate for health insurance reform.

Dr. CARSON: I see the insurance issue, the coverage of people for healthcare in our country as a huge moral issue. And, you know, the richest country in the world to have 47 million people without health insurance is ridiculous.

LAWTON: One of Carson’s greatest passions is encouraging education, especially for at-risk kids. He and his wife have started a national scholarship program called the “Carson Scholars Fund.”

Dr. CARSON: If we can take young people who excel at the highest levels, put them on the same kind of pedestal as the all-state basketball player and the all-state football player, and begin to get the same kind of recognition, it will have a profound effect. And we are finding that it does.

LAWTON: He admits one big danger for neurosurgeons can be developing a God-complex.

Dr. CARSON: You’re going into these incredibly delicate places that control who people are. And you got to have a fair ego to think you can do that. But for me, personally, I realize where it all comes from. All the good things come from God. I can’t really claim any of them. And I just feel privileged that I was dealt a measure of the healing arts.

LAWTON: Faith may be a risk, he says, but it’s the best risk of all.

I’m Kim Lawton in Baltimore.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: Pope Benedict is making his first visit to France since becoming pontiff three years ago. The centerpiece of his trip is a visit to Lourdes, the Roman Catholic shrine marking its 150th anniversary this year. Millions of pilgrims visit the sanctuary where a 14-year-old girl saw apparitions of the Virgin Mary. The water from an underground spring there is believed by many to have healing properties.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: People of faith have long disagreed about the origins of the universe. Now, the dominant scientific theory about that is being put to the test at an underground facility in Switzerland. This past week scientists successfully tested the world’s most powerful particle accelerator and are moving forward with experiments that could unlock important physical secrets of the universe. They will try to recreate the conditions that existed within one second of the Big Bang, which is thought to have occurred more than 10 billion years ago.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

DEBORAH POTTER: That’s our program for now. I’m Deborah Potter. There’s much more on our Web site. Audio and video podcasts of our program are also available. Join us at pbs.org.

As we leave you, scenes from the Pentagon’s September 11 Memorial dedication in Washington on Thursday.

###

© 2008 WNET-TV. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Prepared by Burrelle’s Information Services, which takes sole responsibility for accuracy of transcription. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce any copy of the material except for user’s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be reproduced, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any manner that may infringe upon WNET-TV’s copyright or proprietary interests in the material.