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Public Affairs Television "Becoming American" Interview with Sam Ting

BILL MOYERS: How did you learn English so fast?

SAM TING: I went to classes. In the beginning, students stay away from you. Who's this strange guy who doesn't understand anything and because of the time change, always falls asleep in class, in the first few weeks.

BILL MOYERS: The jet lag was terrible. (LAUGHTER)

SAM TING: (LAUGHTER) But after a while people found out he seems to have good grades. And then I began to have many, many friends.

BILL MOYERS: Did you ever meet Homer Neal? He's a good friend. He's a good friend.

SAM TING: Yes, he was my classmate.

BILL MOYERS: Is that right?

SAM TING: Yeah. He was my classmate and we shared the same office. He was one year behind me.

BILL MOYERS: Samuel Ting, a Chinese American, and Homer Neal, an African American. What an interesting combination that was.

SAM TING: And we are very good friends.

BILL MOYERS: He's at CERN now, isn't he?

SAM TING: He's at CERN [European Laboratory for Particle Physics] He was at my home for dinner recently. When I first went to Michigan, the class was difficult because I didn't understand English, particularly chemistry. But on Saturdays, there is something called football. And so I went to football. I still remember my first football was with UCLA. And after a few minutes, I understood it, I figured it out. (LAUGHTER) And??

BILL MOYERS: What did you figure out?

SAM TING: I figured out what was a touchdown. Somehow I figured this out. And since then, I developed a complete loyalty to the University of Michigan's football. And so in my six years at Michigan, I'm ashamed to say I did not go to all the classes. But I never missed a football game.

And so even now, I still go back once a year. And just a few months ago I was with Homer at the University of Michigan game.

BILL MOYERS: You know, Joe Namath, the big New York Jets quarterback once said to me with a smile on his face, football is physics. A quarterback has to be at heart a good physicist. He has to calculate time and distance and mobility in order to deliver an object to a moving receiver at a given moment.

SAM TING: Yes, that's also one thing about football, you have to react very quickly. The time of reaction is very short and mistake is very serious. In physics, in doing experiments you also have to react quickly. To see whether there's a mistakes or not.

BILL MOYERS: And that doesn't trouble you at midnight when you think about this big booster taking off and this expensive magnet that you were developing and moving up into space. One small mistake and it's all over.

SAM TING: Mmm?Hmm. It doesn't trouble me because I will always check and check and check again. I always assume there could be something wrong. I better check. It's very important for me, at least, I won't say about others, to assume that there could be something wrong. You better check it.

SAM TING: During our first flight to space, there were many articles and many papers that say this will never work. One of the reasons is if you have a wire, if you hang a thread, if you put a chopsticks, the chopstick is gonna stay in the same orientation. But if the chopstick is made out of a magnetize iron, it's going to rotate always to the north. Right? That's the principal of a compass.

But it's not a chopstick. If it's a seven ton magnet, you're gonna exert a tremendous force on the shuttle and the shuttle will lose control. And so the magnet that we designed is looking from outside, it's like made out of wood. The earth do not see this like a piece of wood. The property of the magnet is only inside.

So we figure out how to do that and once we do that?? the question is how do you know you have done it correctly? So instead of (UNINTEL) one magnet, we actually build ten. And we do many tests. And we see what condition—well, first we measure it's really changed that does it rotate. Does it have a torque, does it have a push.

And under what condition?? when the shuttle leaves the ground will it will fall apart. The force is enormous. So we simulate this on a vibration table, to see under what condition this thing falls apart. We're actually building ten magnets. It's not just a question of who is intelligent, who is not intelligent. The important thing is to be suspicious. To be suspicious but to your ability is limited. You better check it.

BILL MOYERS: Can you simulate and compute the possibility of a mistake that has never happened?

SAM TING: You cannot simulate that. But you can simulate the space environment at NASA's Johnson's Space Center and use the special equipment just to simulate the condition of space. And you do this test. And what we have done is not only simulate the condition of space, we increase the vibration to see under what conditions this thing will fall apart.

BILL MOYERS: Do you think there's anything particular in your cultural Chinese background that has played a role in this? Because in this booklet, you mention yin and yang. And I once did a documentary about Chinese medicine and how it believes a human body is organic, not a machine like the Americans believe it is. Is there something peculiar in your Chinese heritage that has influenced you as a scientist?

SAM TING: No. If there's anything, it's just the opposite. I mentioned to you my conversation with my parents about scientists, I often had disagreements with my father. He was brought up in a classical Chinese environment, and so he believed things of the old is good, the ideas of Confucius is good.

And ever since I was young I was somehow different. And I don't believe that at all. I thought this philosophy perhaps was not entirely right because if you only think that old is good, then there's no advancement to the future. So in that sense, I have some sort of a conflict with [my culture]?? particularly my father.

BILL MOYERS: Well, it's my theory?? unproven, because I can't conduct enough experiments to confirm it. It's my theory that one becomes an American at that moment which for good or ill, one challenges authority. Challenges tradition.

SAM TING: Absolutely right. Absolutely right. Another way for you think you are American is at night, when you go to the laboratory, when you count the numbers, you don't count in Chinese, you count in English. (LAUGHTER)

Also, if you no longer celebrate Chinese New Year and then you realize you have completely changed.

BILL MOYERS: And you have, haven't you?

SAM TING: Yes. Yeah.

BILL MOYERS: Do you still have any intrigue with your Chinese culture? Do you have any intellectual intercourse with it?

SAM TING: I am somewhat interested in Chinese history. That is because when I was young I had a reasonably good memory. When I read a book I could remember. So I'm sometimes fascinated by Chinese history. The Chinese as you know, keep good records, what's going on.

BILL MOYERS: I know. They were the original bureaucrats. (LAUGHTER)

BILL MOYERS: Tell me about your family now? They must be purely American.

SAM TING: My wife is American. And I have three children. Two daughters from an earlier marriage, they're in their 30s. And I have a young son who is 16. He is at school in Boston. He is 100 percent American.

BILL MOYERS: Do you talk to your children about their Chinese heritage? Their grandfather?

SAM TING: I talk to all of them about Chinese history. Mainly because I know a little bit about Chinese history. So at dinner tables?? they are not interested in what I'm doing.

BILL MOYERS: They're not? (LAUGHTER) Well, your father wasn't interested in what you were doing.

SAM TING: So I talk to them about Chinese history. And I often go with my wife and my son to China. I went with my son last year to China to Xian (PH), to Unamuchi (PH), to Beijing. And that was very interesting for him.

BILL MOYERS: Do you take him back to your roots? Back to where your parents came from?

SAM TING: No.

BILL MOYERS: So they're purely American now.

SAM TING: Yes.

BILL MOYERS: A couple of final questions. What went through your mind when you learned you won the Nobel Prize?

SAM TING: I was a bit surprised. Because normally, the Nobel committee, from your discovery to when they give you a prize, they normally let you wait for 20 years or 30 years. And in my time, from the work to the awarded prize is only a little bit more than a year.

BILL MOYERS: A year?

SAM TING: About a year. I did my work in '74. They gave me the prize in '76 so, I think they must have made a terrible mistake. (LAUGHTER) Get the excitement over their head.

BILL MOYERS: Why did you give your acceptance speech in Chinese?

SAM TING: The reason is, [the Nobel] acceptance speeches have been given in every languages except in Chinese.

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