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The following Featured Post comes from Relationship Group 2, Thread 11.

1. why are black men ,the men most likely to date outside?
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 8:05 PM/EST
alfie

Black men have some very peculiar patterns and statics in regards to their interraccial dating. They're the men most likly to leave women of their own race. Black men and white women in America often say the cause is that black women are masculine, domineering, greedy....all sort of slurs that could never be directed at black men to justify anything. But I have discovered that black males AROUND THE WORLD show a light skin preference. And while you can say black american women are so and so's- how can you explain the situations of black women in England, Brazil, Africa and more. Don't say the white male influence. If that's so then shouldn't black men FIGHT IT!!?

2. Hmmm...
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 9:40 PM/EST
laffzalot

My husband is black & I am white. I really can't answer your question (why are black men the men most likely to date outside). I just wanted to say in my own words that I wish you could see beyond the color of a person's skin like I/we did. My family background is Jewish. I wasn't raised Jewish though. My husband dated women of all races before he met me (black, white, asian, spanish, etc.). I consider myself lucky because I married a wonderful man. I wasn't looking for a black man, I was looking for the man of my dreams (regardless of what his skin color was). I had never dated a black man before. His whole family is black & my whole family is Jewish...we broke the mold so to speak. I wasn't trying to "steal" someone of another race so black women would have to suffer...I was looking for my soul mate...who happened to be black. Maybe some black men in the forum can enlighten us with regard to your question? My intention is not to upset you or anyone else here...just to state my feelings.

3. Maybe we just started first...
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - /EST
dman

Personally, I was never told to date only Black women when I was coming up. Everything was based on communication. There were women that I wouldn't take to the corner store no matter what color they were. Sometimes it was the woman who saw something in me that prompted her to make the initial contact. I simply kept an open mind about the situation.

4. it'd be interesting to know
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 8:56 AM/EST
jayjay

My sister-in-law shows resentment of me sometimes,because I am white, and I'm trying to learn to understand the pain and resentment black women feel when they are faced with a black man with a white woman. I certainly don't believe that black women are responsible!! I think that when the marriage works, it's some kind of miracle, no matter what the racial makeup is, and that love should always be celebrated.

I was once told that we white women have lower standards and expectations for black man than their sisters. I think that's hogwash. But I do think that people who make the choice to enter an interracial marriage are willing to work very hard to make their marriage work. And that the very difficulties that they face from the world outside can bind them tighter and tighter to each other.

I do notice that my husband and I are kinder and more respectful to each other than most couples I meet.

5. About one black man
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 12:34 PM/EST
joyw

I won't presume to speak for my husband as to why he chose to marry a white woman. What I do know is that he tried to date a fair number of black women before he started dating me. He was rejected by all of the black women whom he approached. I don't know on what basis they rejected him (I have my suspicions, none of which are limited to black women by any means--he's not a stud/jock, he's not from a wealthy family, he's the kind of guy that women "just want to be friends with"). But it's their loss (on an individual basis--not a sweeping statement about taking a black man from the community--heaven knows that I've been accused of that often enough). He's a fabulous guy with a great sense of humor, and yes, a really good friend too. The black women he knew just didn't take time to get to know him.

6. Not Me
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 4:38 PM/EST
alfie

It is frustrating, as a black woman, to have your statements about intraracism by black men answered with a simply "I don't know". "It's not me" or MY black male companion that acts that way". I'd like to point out that there is (and has always been) vicious color and race discrimination by black men, yet every black male or white female in a relationship with black men- claims it's not them. Someone has to be lying or deluding themselves.

As for wishing that I could see past skin color. I must admit that that statement irritates me. Why is a black woman called racist for pointing out disciminination against US. If I said " gee I think black men can't get cabs because they are black", no white woman in an interracial relationship would accuse me of not being able to see past the color of the black man or the cab driver? Most interracial couples with black men/white women are only sympathetic when OTHERS are accussed of discrimination.

Black men and white women conveniently forget that it was black women who accepted the many, many non-black women, black men brought into the Black community. Many of these women, mostly the white ones relied on this because they often lost their "white life" when they decided to date or marry a black man. Black women didn't have to welcome white women. White women weren't opening up the white community to US and for many complex reasons, black women were largely responsible for the maintanance, income,and basic survival of the very families, communities, and black religious and cultural institutions that black men were bringing white women into.

To watch black men, who claimed they had little power to open the doors to the white world for black women-so frequently open the doors to the black world for white women (even if they weren't always paying their half of the "rent")was painful. But, for a long time, black women let white women in. It really hurts me that black men and white women could suggest that black women are bigoted. As if we just discovered that white, latin, and asian women are -SURPRISE- not black!! If black women wanted to attack solely on the bases of race, we could have decades ago.

I won't stop bringing up the question of intraracism by black men just because it bothers an interracial couple. Anymore than that same interracial couple would stop bringing up the issue of police harrassment of black men- because it makes good cops or their families upset. If there's a problem (in any way) it MUST BE ADDRESSED! NO FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION CAN GO ON AND NOT CONTAMINATE EVERYBODY- INCLUDING INTERRACIAL COUPLES!

8. Another point
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 5:18 PM/EST
alfie

Do you realize what a huge statement "He was rejected by ALL the black women he met"- is? Do you realize how unlikely that is. Drunks, morbidly obese people,those who are wheel chair bound, even serial killers- can find someone who is "into" them but a black man can't( during a black male shortage. By the way , I am not comparing overweight people or the handicap to drunks (not to be confused with recovering alcoholics) of serial killers.

My point is, ost of the black men I've met who said that, liked to "go after" a certain TYPE of black women. Usually women who were NOT his equivalent. Chubby, nerdish, dark black men don't tend to hit on chubby, nerdish dark black women. They know what they like. They forget so do black women.

10. What direction should we look?
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 11:54 PM/EST
joyw

I'm sorry if my post offended or frustrated you. I was trying to answer the question that you posted at the top about why black men choose to marry outside their "race". I tried to point out that the reasons that the black women refused my husbands interests were probably based on reasons other than race.

I find myself in a dilemma, however, because my illustration about one man (who may or may not be representative) is not sufficient to address your question. I don't want to exchange dissections of each other's arguments (pointless and antagonizing), but I would like to keep this discussion going productively because I think it is a really critical issue to grapple with. If you're game, can we come up with a direction that we can all add to?

I do feel like I need to respond to yor statements in item #8--I did not say that my husband had been refused by all the black women he "met"--only those he approached. Admittedly, this was a selective process, but in general, the women (those that I know of) had similar interests and physical qualities (e.g., were musicians of a medium to dark brown complexion and of less than idealized proportions--in my husband's case tall and skinny (exceptionally) but that's irrelevant).

11. A thought.
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 10:49 AM/EST
hibou

How about this:
Traditionally there has been sort of a race/gender hierarchy in our society with white men at the top because have both of the "good traits"; that is, they are male and white. Black women would be at the bottom of such a hierarch, being neither male nor white. Black men and white women have always been in the middle of this.

Now I'm not saying that in 1930 a black bowery bum had much in common with a white diplomat's wife, but think about this for a moment. For white women, the struggle against sexism coupled with the acceptance for being white is similar to a black man's struggle against racism coupled with his acceptance for being a man. This is not true in all cases but think a little harder. A white female professional works hard to reach for the goals she has set for herself only to bump up againt the glass ceiling of her sex. Her white male bosses say she is a hard worker but are not sure is a woman is the 'right fit' for the next level of management. . A black male professional works hard to reach for the goals he has set for himself only to bump up againt the glass ceiling of his race. His white male bosses say he is a hard worker but are not sure is a black man is the 'right fit' for the next level of management.

Don't get me wrong, I know that these same things happen to black women also, because they face both racism and sexism. But somehow it seem like black men and white women share a similar status that makes it easier for them to get together. I suspect you will disagree with me on this but it's just a thought

12. Makes some sense to me
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 10:16 PM/EST
joyw

I think your generalizations are fairly accurate, although I would hesitate to equate sexism and racism--they have much in common but some significant differences too. Most white women "sleep with the enemy" (to rip off a feminist catch phrase) and many benefit directly from the priveleges assigned to white men (husbands who get the better jobs, etc and can keep them in the style to which they are accustomed). I think that your "theory" may account for increased exposure of white women and black men, who both get stuck several rungs below white men on the ladder of success. I don't know if I'm comfortable with the suggestion that they therefore have more in common with each other or necessarily have more sympathy/empathy for each other.

Read more featured posts here or continue reading thread 11 from Relationship Group 2.





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