Clip: January 6 subpoenas reveal new insight into scope of DOJ's investigation

Alcindor : It was another busy week of news about multiple federal investigations into former President Trump and his allies. On Thursday, a federal judge appointed a special master to review documents taken by the FBI during its search of former President Trump’s home.

The judge also ruled that the DOJ will continue to be blocked from accessing the roughly 100 classified files seized for it to use in its criminal investigation. That came after former President Trump blasted the DOJ on "The Hugh Hewitt Show".

Trump : I have the absolutely right to declassify. Well, I can’t imagine being indicted. I’ve done nothing wrong. Look, if it happens, I think you will have problems in this country, the likes of which perhaps we’ve never seen before. I don’t think the people of the United States would stand for it.

Alcindor : Now, despite Trump’s claims that he classified the documents, his lawyers have actually avoided making that exact assertion in court, and a number of Trump officials say they believe the claim is patently false.

Meanwhile this week, "The New York Times" also reported that the DOJ issued 40 subpoenas to members of Trump’s inner circle, and at least two top Trump advisors had their phones seized. Reports say the actions show is substantial escalation of the DOJ investigation into Trump’s efforts to subvert the 2020 election.

Joining me to discuss this and more, Josh Gerstein, senior legal affairs reporter for "Politico", Marianna Sotomayor, congressional reporter for "The Washington Post". And joining me around the table, Zolan Kanno-Youngs, White House correspondent for "The New York Times," and Susan Page, Washington bureau chief for "USA Today."

So, thank you all for being here.

Josh, I have to start with you. The judge here is giving the special master until November 30th, a deadline to review these files. The DOJ is expected in a filing to ask an appeals court to step in.

So, what more do we know about how this impacts the investigation and the impact on the special master?

Josh Gerstein, Senior Legal Affairs Reporter, POLITICO : Well, right now, Yamiche, the investigation remains basically on hold, at least as it regards any of the classified documents, and even more broadly all of the records Trump had down there at Mar-a-Lago. That’s why the Justice Department is taking this issue to a federal appeals court, because they believe it is basically unprecedented for a federal judge to say you have to halt your investigation.

Now, she did say you can continue to do what is basically a damage assessment of what might have been the national security harm from these records being down at Mar-a-Lago, but the Justice Department’s position, so far, has been that there’s really no practical way to do that without involving criminal investigators who know, for example, who was there at Mar-a-Lago, who might have seen these documents.

And you can’t really separate that from an effort to figure out what the damage is resulting from the records down there.

Alcindor : There are also questions about the special master. We know that he is a former New York judge. What more do we know about the person that has been appointed here? He is already saying he wants to have a conference next week in Brooklyn, New York.

Gerstein : Right. So, he is based in Brooklyn. His name is Raymond Dearie. He is a Reagan appointee. He’s very well-respected across the political spectrum. He has been on the bench for a long time as a Reagan appointee. He is at senior status, a semi retired position. He served for a time on the Foreign Surveillance Court, which handles sensitive national security matters.

I think the big question is not so much him but his broad role that Judge Cannon, the judge down in Florida, is according to Dearie here, not just to look at attorney-client privilege , but executive privilege, and to decide issues they do not typically decide. The issues are typically what does this box fit in, not does the box exist. And that’s really the central question in this dispute between the president and the Justice Department at this stage.

Alcindor : And talking about this dispute, Susan, I want to go back to the sound we played in the open. Former President Trump said, quote, you will have a lot of problems in this country, the likes of which you have never seen.

You have told our producer this is showing, given what we know on January 6. Explain your reaction to this -- to the president saying this, the former president saying this.

Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief, USA Today : It is hard to listen and not believe he is threatening violence by his supporters. If he gets indicted, this is extraordinary. We know from January 6 how followers of President Trump listened to his words. We know these words fueled these demonstrators to come to Washington, fueled them to march to the Capitol.

And they felt they were basically marching orders to break-in. So, I think it is -- it is of great concern that he would use language like that, because we know January 6 is not over. January 6 was not an event back on January 6 and we are down just dealing with the particulars of it. This is -- this reflects a movement and a mood and an assault on democracy we are continuing to deal with as a country.

Zolan Kanno-Youngs, White House Correspondent, The New York Times : This got also frustrated Republicans and really -- because this also fuels Democrats and the specifically White House’s kind of recalculated a message over the past couple of weeks, which is to frame the Republican Party and specifically former President Donald Trump as one of the extremists and espousing extremist views and encouraging political violence. When you have interviews like that, it almost kind of backs the speech that President Biden gave in Philadelphia, many would say.

So, as Republicans try to pinpoint the flaws in the economy and flaws of the Biden administration, when you have a former president giving an interview like that, it backs some of the messaging you are seeing coming from the White House to try to make this upcoming election a real choice between democracy or one that could encourage such violence.

Alcindor : And, Josh, what Zolan is talking about, all of this is up in the air when it comes to classified documents out there. We heard from a lawmaker that said, lawmakers on Capitol Hill were told by the National Archives that there could be more information out there.

Former President Trump is claiming he has declassified anything and everything that he walked out of the White House with. What is your take on this, given your reporting?

Gerstein : Well, I mean, one issue people are concerned about is that there were all these empty folders that were found that we saw in that image from Trumps office, or Trump’s closet down there, with markings on them like top-secret, secure, compartmented information, and maybe even higher levels of classification. At this point, the Justice Department just cannot be sure that those records have been accounted for, whether they were shown to anyone else, whether they might be in any other places that Trump used during his presidency. So, it remains an issue of significant concern.

That said, I do think there is something to his argument that presidents do have broad authority over classified information. And so, I do have some doubts that at the end of the day, if there is a criminal charge against former President Trump, that the central part of it is going to be mishandling classified information, I think it is more likely to be found in obstruction of justice or something along those lines that sidesteps some of those constitutional questions.

Alcindor : That is interesting, Josh, just thinking about sort of what could end up if there was an indictment of Trump, what sort of thing could happen.

Marianna, I want to bring you in because the other thing that we’re talking about, of course, is the January 6 Committee. They’re talking about having a new hearing. We heard from January 6 Committee chair this week, Bennie Thompson, this week saying they are getting troves of information from Secret Service. What do we know about the information coming in, and how do lawmakers want to use it?

Marianna Sotomayor, Congressional Reporter, The Washington Post : Yeah, you know, these lawmakers have a timeline. We don’t know the results of the midterm election yet, but a lot of people are already saying it is likely going to switch to a Republican majority. We know if that happens, Minority Leader McCarthy has said we are going to disband this committee.

So, really, right now, what the lawmakers on the panel are trying to do is get as much information as possible. You mentioned the trove of Secret Service. That is just one part of it, and I know that is something that, if they have a hearing, there have been certain dates that have been discussed for likely later this month, that could be a part of it.

They also want to try and talk to a number of former Trump officials, still get more information from Mark Meadows if possible as well as Tony Ornato, who’s the deputy chief of staff. And there is some actual back-and-forth among lawmakers about how much information they have and how much time they even have to plan a hearing. So, it is likely they could even hold hearings in October, maybe November after the midterms.

One thing the Democrats do not really want to talk about right now is things like this, January 6. They want to keep their messaging on abortion, on other things that may likely help them, maybe keep the majority. So, that’s another consideration lawmakers are weighing, how much attention to bring to the January 6 committee right now when Republicans could attack them for being too partisan.

Alcindor : And, Josh, back to you, because you’re the legal reporter on this, I have to ask you, again, another legal question, which is what do these subpoenas mean? We have the DOJ handing out 40 subpoenas along with the fact that there are negotiations with the January 6 committee for information.

Gerstein : Well, there is a definite broadening of the public part of this DOJ investigation. What they have been doing behind the scenes, we don’t really know, but with these subpoenas, you know they are looking into fundraising by President Trump’s save America group, especially around the election recount. Did money really go to that purpose? Was there some law violation in connection with that rally that was organized at least reportedly organized by women for Trump?

So, these are the areas the investigation is spreading into, as well as the slates from Republican officials in the states that Biden actually won, where they put forward slates that some would say are fraudulent.

One aspect of the cooperation between the committee or lack of it and the Justice Department is the Justice Department is about to start a very big trial. In 10 days, they are supposed to open the first seditious conspiracy trial involving the Oath Keepers, the first of what could be two or three seditious trials. Five defendants are supposed to go on the stand.

And one of the problems is if the house starts dribbling out documents, it is going to just cause hellish disruption in that trial because there are going to be demands for the rest of the committees documents, that there was a partial disclosure, and that it is all coming so late they cannot process it.

So, those interactions may be why the committee has decided not to put out more evidence right now.

Page : We are seeing these timelines. The Justice Department clearly getting their investigative -- meticulous investigation going a little power. The special master, definitely slowing that process, and the House committee seeing this deadline looming because it is entirely likely that Republicans will be in control of the House, that committee will be disbanded.

Whatever they need to do, they need to do it as quickly as possible. And it means that we go into -- so, this is the first time we have been in this situation. We go to a midterm election where we are still debating fiercely the outcome of the previous election, and that is likely to be a situation we will find even in the next presidential election.

Alcindor : Susan, you really wrote the segue to the next part of the show, which is the midterms.

So, I want to thank you, Josh, for all of your reporting and breaking down all the legal aspects of this and for sharing your reporting.