Clip: Trump faces array of new legal challenges and Republican criticisms

Yamiche Alcindor: Meanwhile, this has been a tough week for former President Donald Trump featuring a host of legal challenges. On Tuesday, Trump's real estate company was found guilty of tax fraud. On Wednesday, The Washington Post first revealed additional documents marked classified were recently found in a Florida storage facility used by Trump. And then that evening, a Democrat Bennie Thompson, chair of the January 6th committee, said the committee is considering sending to DOJ criminal referrals for Trump and others it has investigated.

Meanwhile, after Trump called for the U.S. Constitution to be suspended, many in the GOP roundly criticized him.

Mike Pence, Former U.S. Vice President: I think anyone who serves in public office, anyone who aspires to serve in public office or serve again in public office should make it clear that they will support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Yamiche Alcindor: That, of course, was former Vice President Mike Pence. So, Josh, it's really -- you're part of the show to break all this down for us. What sticks with you when you think about all these different legal challenges? What's the biggest takeaway from this week?

Josh Gerstein: Well, what I take away from it is that there are things going on around Trump that if they went on with any other president, just one part of this story, would be enormous. But somehow amidst this maelstrom of legal problems that he's facing, things don't get as much attention

I think the biggest threat he faces is the stream of former advisers and officials that are going in front of grand juries in Washington and down in Atlanta, Fulton County grand jury down there, to testify about the both the Mar-a-Lago document issue here in Washington, that grand jury, as well as the broader question of efforts to undermine the 2020 election.

And each appearance doesn't get a lot of attention but it is a big deal for a former White House counsel, like Pat Cipollone, to go in front of the federal grand jury and, we presume, testify against his former boss, although we don't know exactly what was said behind closed doors. For someone like Stephen Miller, everybody knows what a close adviser Stephen Miller was, basically President Trump's right hand man, also appearing before the federal grand jury in Washington. So, when the president -- the former president sees things like that, I think that's what he has to be most concerned about. Although, as you point, there's a lot of other bad news he's gotten on the legal front, especially his company being convicted of criminal tax fraud in New York.

Yamiche Alcindor: Well, I want to ask you about that. What is the practical impact of that? What's the significance of that?

Josh Gerstein: Well, I think it could be significant in a couple different ways. One is there are sometimes covenants and so forth when they get these large loans for $100 or $150 million on their real estate properties of sort of good behavior, just like you might have a contract that says an individual has to behave themselves, so does a company. And if they've been convicted of a felony, that could be a problem for them. It is also possible that they could lose some contracts.

And then remember, Tish James, the attorney general up there in New York, is pursuing this kind of effort to basically put the Trump Organization into what amounts, I think, to a form of receivership. And for them to be convicted of criminal tax fraud certainly helps her effort to get that kind of oversight that could basically unravel the whole Trump business empire.

Yamiche Alcindor: Marianna, there's all the stuff that Josh just broke down -- we're still happy you're here, Josh. And then there is, of course, the January 6th committee. What more do we know about the potential for criminal referrals and what that sort of reveals about where the committee's work is heading?

Marianna Sotomayor: Yes. It's pretty significant because the chairman, Bennie Thompson, months ago said we're likely not going to be making criminal referrals at the time. Other committee members said, well there is still an opportunity to discuss that.

The fact that they are coming out and saying that this is going to happen means that they could have found something during their investigation over the last couple of months. We don't know anymore about who they targeted, the number of critical referrals that they will be making but it is likely to happen soon because this committee is coming to an end. It's a Republican majority. McCarthy said he will disband this committee, as it is. And the committee is preparing to release its final report likely a couple of days before Christmas.

Yamiche Alcindor: We all appreciate that.

Marianna Sotomayor: I know. We really do. We cannot turn off our brains just yet. And they're likely possibly going to also do a public presentation at that point in time. But to your point about the Christmas holidays, it's unclear how many people will tune into that.

Yamiche Alcindor: And what are you hearing at the White House and what are they saying maybe behind closed doors about all of these legal problems, especially for Trump, obviously, who is running for president again?

Laura Barron-Lopez: I mean, the White House has viewed their streak this past few month as being a very good streak. And they're very aware of the fact that the past month has not been very good for the former president, Trump. I mean, publicly, they are very careful, as you know, to not comment on not just the January 6 investigation but also the wider investigations, really trying to show that they are letting A.G. Garland be totally independent, as well as the other investigations that are going on.

You know, they speak out, and they did recently, the White House did this week, when they saw the former president say that the Constitution should be terminated. And we do know that President Biden, because of the fact that he has given speeches and privately has met with historians views what happened on January 6th as a total attack on the Constitution and on the democratic election process. And so they will continue to speak out against that even if they don't engage in the investigations.

Yamiche Alcindor: And, Josh, tell me what your reporting says about the DOJ possibly receiving these criminal referrals and how they might integrate all of the information, all of the transcripts and other things that the January 6th committee hands them.

Josh Gerstein:  Well, they definitely said they want to get all that material that the House has developed and take a close look at it. I don't know whether they think there is going to be bombshells in there that lead directly to criminal charges or the possibility of criminal charges that prosecutors aren't looking at right now. But one thing you want to do if you are thinking of bringing a criminal case, especially against a former president of the United States, is you want to pressure test it. So, you need to look at all the testimony that different people have given in different places and make sure there isn't something there that you are overlooking.

I do think that this all fits together with a sense that this legal problem for Trump and his potential criminal exposure is really building to ahead in the early months of next year when they brought in Jack Smith to be the special counsel to oversee both the Mar-a-Lago probe and the election related investigations. The one watchword we heard again and again from people at the Justice Department was they want to move quickly. There is not going to be delayed. We're not replacing all the investigators and all the prosecutors. We're bringing in this one additional layer of what's supposed to be a form independence within the department. But this isn't going to be like the Mueller investigation where we hire 18 prosecutors and bring in a whole new team of FBI agents.

Yamiche Alcindor: And I'm also curious in the minute that we have left here. The DOJ also subpoenaed for Trump's communications his campaign's communications, election officials in three states. It's Arizona, Michigan and Wisconsin. What is the significance of that with all this other stuff going on?

Josh Gerstein: Well, what was fascinating with that subpoena was they listed 19 different individuals. You have people like Joe diGenova, Vicky Teonsing, lawyers that have worked with the president, people that worked on the president's campaign. And they are asking election officials in these states for all of their communications, emails, any other records of interactions, because one of these grand juries that the special counsel is overseeing is looking at we think whether there was a conspiracy of some sort to interfere with the election results and the certification of the election results in 2020.

And this, I think, shows the speed with which and the aggressiveness with which the investigators are moving so that they can be at some kind of a decision point maybe by, say, February or so of next year. And if there are going to be charges here, I think there is a sense at the Justice Department that it is better for that to happen sooner rather than later before we get into the -- really the throes of the 2024 presidential race.

Yamiche Alcindor: Yes. Well, definitely, all the things that we are going to keep watching, definitely going to have you back, Josh, because we're going to keep breaking out all these legal challenges.