Clip: Will renewed talk of police reform lead to real changes after death of Tyre Nichols?

Yamiche Alcindor: Meanwhile, we have to also talk, of course, about the somber part of this week, which is that hundreds of people attended the funeral for Tyre Nichols, the 29-year-old black man who died after being beaten by Memphis police last month.

At service, his mother, RowVaughn Wells, said she hopes his death would not be in vain. And Vice President Kamala Harris called for legislation to hold police accountable.

RowVaughn Wells, Tyre Nichols' Mother: The only thing that's keeping me going is the fact that I really should believe my son was sitting here beside me from God. And I guess now his assignment is done, he has been taken home.

Kamala Harris, U.S. Vice President: Tyre Nichols should have been safe. We demand that Congress pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Joe Biden will sign it.

Yamiche Alcindor: Still, any meaningful progress for passing policing reform is an uphill battle. The last effort to pass a policing bill failed in the Senate in 2021. And one of the lead negotiators at the time, Republican Tim Scott, said he hopes this time will be different.

Sen. Tim Scott (R-SC): We want only the best wearing the badge in this great nation. But politics too often gets in the way of doing what every American knows is common sense.

Yamiche Alcindor: So, Ayesha, I want to come to you. What are you hearing from people who frankly are most impacted by this, which I have to say is African-Americans who are killed at 2.5 times the rate of white people were killed, as African-Americans have 2.5 times the rate of white Americans. Is there a change or people sort of wanting -- I know people are wanting change, but people believing that there can be change, even on the local level?

Ayesha Rascoe: I think that it is really difficult. I think that what I am hearing when I talk to people is really just exhaustion. Michelle Martin of NPR was down in Memphis and she talked about how, even when she talked to people there, that so many of them were saying that they had had run-ins with Memphis police, or people they knew and loved had had run-ins with Memphis police that were not good and that were dangerous.

And so I think that there is just an issue where, yes, people are concerned about crime, the people affected by crime and oftentimes it is poor black people. But they are also concerned about police brutality and being beaten and having to worry about just getting home.

And right now, I don't know that the federal government offers much relief because the idea of Congress being able to act seems very farfetched at this point. They could not do it after George Floyd. It's going to be very difficult to do it now in this divided Congress.

And so what can happen at the local level? I think there is pressure to try to make some differences. They disbanded this part of the police force that was able to do this, the Scorpion part. But at the same time, it is like what is going to happen, what is going to be done, and I do not think we have good answers.

Yamiche Alcindor: And I want to ask you really quickly about just the trauma that you are hearing from black people and people in this country who, apart from obviously calls for change, part of the funeral was just mourning the loss of someone who should be here to raise his four-year-old child.

Ayesha Rascoe: Yes. I mean, the thing of it is like every life has worth, right? So, it's like this person, Tyre, he was a skateboarder, he was a father, he was beloved. This was that his mother, that was her baby. I know I have a son until forever. He will always be my baby. And she lost him. And I just think there is just a pain in that that we carry that is physical, that is meaningful. And I don't think this country fully deals with it because it is too much.

Michael Shear: And can I say -- I mean, I think -- I totally agree and I think that one of the sad things that this reminds us is the disconnect between that kind of trauma and policymaking. It used to be sort of the idea that like when something traumatic happened, it would trigger action, right? It would trigger politicians, lawmakers, presidents to act.

And whether it is 20 little children getting killed at Sandy Hook or it's immigrants dying crossing the Rio Grande or whether it is George Floyd or others, or Tyre Nichols dying, and this policing, we are at a point and we are at a paralysis in Washington where even the most traumatic, horrible things that happen are not enough to trigger political action and there is no response. And I think that is what leaves so many Americans so deeply frustrated with these situations.

Susan Page: And the challenge, I think, for President Biden in his state of the union address next week as well, we know he is going to talk about police reform. How could he not? But will he have something new to say? Is there some fresh approach? I mean, if it couldn't pass, if the George Floyd Act couldn't pass in the wake of his death and with Democrats controlling both Houses of Congress, it is not going to pass now, is there something else that leadership could do that gets us to a different place in this terrible stalemate?

Yamiche Alcindor: And it's interesting. I mean, when you talk about sort of the stalemate, Ryan, Jim Jordan surprised me because he said the police misconduct is a form of the weaponization of the government, which I was like I had to do a double take. But he also said in the same breath he cannot think of any law that would stop what happened to Tyre Nichols. So, what are you hearing from Republicans. Are they echoing Jim Jordan?

Ryan Nobles: Well, define police misconduct, Yamiche. For a Republican like Jim Jordan, it would be the FBI raiding Mar-a-Lago to find classified documents that were inappropriately taken. It would be Capitol police officers roughing up January 6th protesters, as they're called, as they were storming the Capitol illegally. That is part of the problem that we have in Washington that Michael points to. People are talking past each other.

Even these things that we think would be kind of basic knowledge that we all agree upon, a problem like police brutality or law enforcement run amok, different Americans have different definitions for those. And particularly in the House of Representatives, those members are speaking specifically only to those constituencies.

So, the second you start talking about police reform, the first thing Republicans do is run tape of Democrats saying defund the police. And the first thing that happens on the other side is that they accuse Republicans of not being serious about this. So, just like Michael talked about, it is the same conversation we have about guns, it's the same conversation we have about immigration. Everybody just retreats back to the talking points and no one is interested in that consensus in the middle.

There's a big difference between not changing anything and defunding the police, right? There is some sort of middle ground there that can be found. But it is so elusive because there is no political benefit to it right now.

Yamiche Alcindor: And, Ayesha, I want to come to this idea that I've been talking to people about, which is can you even legislate hearts and minds? Of course, people, even civil rights leader say, we need to have new laws, but there is also this sort of lack of humanity that people think they are seeing when they see frankly that they do see, when they see Tyre Nichols being beaten the way that he was beaten, especially as he is calling out for his mother and the same with George Floyd called out for his mother.

Ayesha Rascoe: Well, I mean, look, we have to use the word, we have to talk about, even though these were black police officers, there is an idea of policing that is rooted in white supremacy. Like that is something that people make the argument over and over again, and that when you have black bodies, and that they are not -- that black people are not valued enough.

So, if you are in a position of authority, you may feel like you can get away with treating this person like they are not human versus the way you would treat somebody who is white and innocent, and that is just a fact. And we have to really deal with that if we are going to deal with the issues of police brutality in this country.

Ryan Nobles: And that gets back to not just funding police reform. It talks about funding education. It talks about funding food programs to eliminate things like food insecurity and poverty. This is all part of the systemic problems that lead to the situation that we saw in Memphis that lawmakers just do not want to have a serious conversation about.

Yamiche Alcindor: I mean, even as -- and we only have ten seconds, even as Ryan talks about education, we think about the fact that the A.P. African-American studies is being watered down. So, it is a tough place to be.

Ayesha Rascoe: It is a tough place to be. And I think Ryan was exactly right, we are talking past each other. And like even when it comes to what our history is and what we want to learn, we are not talking the same language.

Yamiche Alcindor: Yes. We will have to leave it there tonight. Thank you to all of our panelists. Thank you for your reporting and your insights.