Clip: Who will voters blame for the government shutdown?

Jeffrey Goldberg: The main topic of concern this week for the practical minded at least is this, does the American air traffic control system still work? And if it isn't working, who's to blame? We'll talk about the government shutdown now, the longest in history, and we'll talk about some other bad signs for the president's political standing tonight with Leigh Ann Caldwell, the chief Washington correspondent at Puck, David Ignatius is a foreign affairs columnist at The Washington Post, Mark Leibovich is a staff writer at The Atlantic, and Jeff Zeleny is the chief national affairs correspondent for CNN, chief. Be careful the way you address him. Thank you all for being here.

Leigh Ann, let me start with you. So, America, our country, is the world's sole remaining superpower. It can project force into any corner of the world, it has the world's largest economy, but we can't seem to get people to work in the air traffic control system so the flights are being canceled left and right. I guess this is because the government doesn't work. But what I need to know from you is who to blame. Who to blame?

Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent, Puck: Who blame? Well, that's a good question. If you ask the Democrats, it's the Republicans' fault.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I'm asking you. I'm asking you this.

Leigh Ann Caldwell: If you ask the Republicans, it the Democrats' fault.

So, I'm not going to put any blame except for all of them are to blame because the Democrats are absolutely right, Republicans control the three branches of government, they need at least seven Democrats in order to get votes to fund the government, but the Republicans have not, until now, negotiated with Democrats to find those votes. The Democrats are bringing in a completely unrelated issue, this issue of healthcare, because they have no leverage at any other time in this government because they have a president who will only work with Republicans. And so they're using this to try to make a point and to get Republicans to the table to negotiate on an issue that is important to them, and that's these Affordable Care Act subsidies.

So, now we're 38 days into a government shutdown. It is really starting to hit the American public. People are starting to feel it. And, you know, probably, most impactfully, are the people who can't afford food who are in food stamps, the SNAP program. And the administration tonight is trying to appeal a court order to pay those benefits up.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Now, that doesn't make the government look so great. It doesn't make the Trump administration look so great.

Jeff, I mean, who is -- forget the reality of it. From an optics perspective, who is in the most danger here? Who's in the most political danger? The SNAP issue seems more dire for obvious reasons than the air traffic control system, although that is a sign of dysfunction.

Jeff Zeleny, Chief National Affairs Correspondent, CNN: I mean, particularly going into, we're three weeks before Thanksgiving, we're kind of focused on right as we're going into the holidays. And the idea that the administration has chosen to not find money to fund the food assistance program for some 42 million Americans, one in eight Americans, but they have found money for military payments and ICE officers and others, that's a choice. It's a choice by the administration, but it is beginning to catch up with the administration and Republicans.

You heard the president say it himself this week when he blamed the election fallout on the shutdown. And he had a previously scheduled lunch with Republicans on Wednesday morning, the morning after the election, and he was very angry and he's angry about the shutdown. But he's not really doing anything to sort of bring it to an end.

But, look, I think this week felt to me like a turning point. Who knows how long it will go, but the president was angry today, talking about, you know, how Americans just aren't seeing all what he's doing, I brought down costs, he hasn't, and that's what he promised to do one year ago.

So, to me, at least this week seemed somewhat different. We'll see if it sort of brings it into the shutdown. The Senate is staying in this weekend, which is something they've not done for any of the other, what, five weekends. So, I think by next week --

Jeffrey Goldberg: But you want to pace yourself.

Jeff Zeleny: Sure. Yes, tough work.

Jeffrey Goldberg: I just realized that the way you phrased it, we're right now in the season of people in large numbers flying home to eat vast quantities of food. And it's interesting that SNAP is directly affecting people's ability to eat and to fly home. I mean, that doesn't make the people in charge look very good. I mean, Mark, do you expect them to actually come to a conclusion soon on this now that the president seems to be seized by the idea that this is not good for him?

Mark Leibovich, Staffer Writer, The Atlantic: I mean, not necessarily. I mean, one, Democrats seem to be much more dug in than they were before Tuesday. I mean, I think they seem emboldened by Tuesday's elections, which Democrats did very well. And also, I mean, Trump might be angry and frustrated and he might be telling Republicans this, but it's not like he's coming to this from a place of humility. Maybe we should back off on A, B or C. No, he's doubling down. He's saying, no, let's kill the filibuster, which is a complete non-starter.

So, it seems like wasted energy at this point and also something that's counterproductive within, you know, within the Republican Party.

Jeffrey Goldberg: David, you watched Washington for quite a while. There probably has been other periods of kind of dumb dysfunction. This one has to rank pretty high.

David Ignatius, Columnist, The Washington Post: This is the breakdown of our government. This shutdown stretching toward two months, heading toward Thanksgiving, when everybody wants to fly home, our air traffic system is, you know, having to slow down, you want to say is on the verge of beginning to break.

And I worry that the Democrats effort, as Leigh Ann said, to try to make a point. The point that they're trying to make is through causing pain for the people by, you know, holding fast and, you know, showing that Trump is, you know, refusing to make concessions on healthcare. I just worry that that strategy is about to crack up.

If the Democrats could take the win that they had this week, you know, this is a week the Democrats just rolled in the Tuesday elections, and this is a moment when they, as a party that's confident, I think, could find a path towards a compromise that to make them look good and make the country feel like --

Jeffrey Goldberg: Where they simply come out and say we want everybody to eat and fly around.

David Ignatius: Yes, but they're the party that's going to solve this problem. I can easily see, as I say, a way to take a win and they don't seem to want to do that.