This script has been lightly edited for clarity.

 

Jace Lacob: I’m Jace Lacob and you’re listening to MASTERPIECE Studio.

Like the three legs of a stool hold up the entire structure, the three friends of The Marlow Murder Club each shine in their own way. Judith with her cryptic clues and imaginative reasoning, Becks with her know-how of navigating the world of lords and ladies, and Suzie — the single parent dog walker who knows the locals and shortcuts around town. And this season, Suzie Harris isn’t messing around. 

 

CLIP

Suzie: You killed him.

Rosanna: Sorry?

Suzie: I think you opened the safe that day and you found the new will, and it still gave you nothing. So you got rid of it, tore it up. And then you went downstairs and pushed that cabinet onto your dad.

Rosanna: No.

Suzie: The man who didn’t believe in saving the planet, who didn’t believe in you.

Rosanna: No, I was upstairs when he died.

Suzie: Yeah, at some point. But how do we know that’s where you were when the cabinet was pushed onto your dad?

 

But Suzie has more to worry about than just solving murders. 

 

CLIP

Suzie: I’ve got a book I want to give you. Oh, the Places You’ll Go!

Zeta: What’s that?

Suzie: It’s a Dr. Seuss story about all the places you’ll go to in your life.

Zeta: Mom, I’m going to Manchester.

Suzie: Zeta, that’s far.

Zeta: It’s just up the M6.

Suzie: Well, it’s not just about the… uni, it can be really intense.

Zeta: I know mom, it’s just, I am 18 now.

Suzie: That’s not that old.

Zeta: It’s old enough to leave home.

 

This season, Suzie goes the extra mile to follow up on clues, even when it means putting herself in danger. Whether it’s a high-stakes mobility scooter chase, digging through a property developer’s files while an excavator threatens to crush her, or racing to save her beloved dog Luna from a killer, Suzie proves the old adage that courage isn’t an absence of fear, but a triumph over it.

 

CLIP

Becks: How did you get on with the property developer?

Judith: We got everything we needed. Suzie was so clever.

Suzie: Grace Wellingborough is behind in all sorts of payments to the bank.

Becks: Oh, she’s in debt.

Suzie: Hanging by a thread.

 

Today, actor Jo Martin joins the podcast to discuss how her character, dogwalker turned sleuth Suzie Harris, grapples with themes of parenthood, friendship, and of course, murder.

 

Jace Lacob: And this week, we are joined by Marlow Murder Club star Jo Martin. Welcome.

Jo Martin: Hello. Thank you for having me. Lovely.

Jace Lacob: Thanks for joining us. In Series Two, Suzie delivers what might be a mission statement for Marlow Murder Club. She says, “All mysteries need to be solved, don’t they?” Suzie often spots things that the other sleuths miss. What do you think makes her a sharp observer? Is it high emotional intelligence, an ability to read body cues, intuition, or something else altogether?

Jo Martin: I think it’s all of the above. I think she reads body cues, she reads people. I mean, listen, she’s a dog walker and she’s invited to many homes where she’s suddenly becoming a social worker. She goes to walk people’s dogs and they tell her their problems; my wife is like this, my husband does that, the kids are doing this, and she gives advice. And her life experiences kind of feed into this whole Marlow murder mystery. And the fact that it’s a town that she knows she’s grown up in, she knows the people, she knows the culture, she knows their ways, if you know what I mean. And she knows a lot of gossip. Let’s be real.

And I just think she’s really good at reading people. Bottom line, you know what I mean? She’s been a people watcher all her life. And also, being able to work out what kind of temperament people have compared to what kind of dog they have, what kind of vibe they have, depending on if they got a bulldog or they have an alsatian, or they have a little poochie bushy number. She’s just very smart, that’s what I’m saying.

Jace Lacob: She’s smart. She is smart.

Jo Martin: Yeah.

Jace Lacob: With Zeta heading to university in Manchester, Suzie must contend with the dreaded empty nest. How did you approach Suzie’s growth in the second series, transitioning into a new phase of her life while letting go of Zeta?

Jo Martin: My oldest boy is 18 now, so he’s kind of spreading his wings so I could use some of my life. But my thing is, our job is to bring them up and let them go, as my parents did. They let me go. But it’s easier said than done. And I think, Suzie, because she’s a single mother, the closeness that they have, the bond that they have built, because it’s been her and her daughter against the world. And I think she struggles to let her go. She struggles to accept that she has a young adult now and not a child.

And one of the greatest things is that she suddenly has these new friends bringing her into this new, adventurous lifestyle, which she has not had because she’s been so focused on bringing up her daughter and she’s the most important thing. She’s put herself on the back shelf. It’s like, well, what does Suzie want? What does Suzie need? Where is she going? And so it’s been really interesting in Season Two, seeing her growth in that and seeing her develop and spread her wings and accepting this new life, you know, and not fighting against it.

Jace Lacob: I love she says, “You know me, Zeta. I’ll be fine. I’m always fine”, which is a little less than convincing on her part, I think. I think she does struggle with a sense of identity outside of motherhood, her job. But this new hobby, solving murders, is it something that you think gives her a renewed sense of purpose?

Jo Martin: It gives her a strong sense of purpose. She’s suddenly finding herself in situations that she could never begin to imagine she would be in, meeting people that she would never normally be hanging out with. I mean, Judith is a retired archaeologist. The vicar’s wife. Although I would know these people on the outskirts, I wouldn’t be involved in their lives. You know what I mean? Because we are coming from different worlds, in some respects.

And this feeling like you’re not invisible anymore, feeling like you have a use, you are useful. And remembering who you may have been when you were younger and then you forget because you get bogged down with life and all the other stuff that you have to do, paying a mortgage and this and that. Suddenly she finds that… it’s kind of like the inner child, that child within her, that fun, that joy, I think it’s a lifesaver for Suzie. I don’t know what would have happened if Judith hadn’t come along and this new, I suppose, job of solving crime and finding serial killers, etc. where she would be. I think she might be under a duvet.

Jace Lacob: While Marlow is the home of creator Robert Thorogood and his family in real life, has the town begun to feel like home to you as well as you returned for Series Two and now Series Three? Is it like slipping on a comfortable jumper?

Jo Martin: You know, it really is. It feels like a little family. People know you in Marlow, and you’ve got your little local places, the local pub that we like to go to, the local restaurants. They’ve got some lovely boutique clothes shops. I’m broke spending too much money in Marlow, you know what I mean? But yeah, it feels like a new family. My family came out over the weekend. And it was so funny because my husband and my mother in law, they came down and they’re like, oh my God mum, you know everyone! I felt like I was in the bar at Cheers where everyone knows your name.

Jace Lacob: Your name, yeah. What sort of reactions do you get from locals once the production starts going back in Marlow? Is there a real life Suzie-type who turns up asking questions?

Jo Martin: Well, the thing is, people are coming from far and wide, which is really mad. We’ve bumped into a couple that had actually flown from Australia to come and walk the streets of Marlow.

Jace Lacob: Oh, wow.

Jo Martin: Yeah. To relive moments and to take pictures. And as luck would have it, we were using a particular pub as a base and we were filming around the corner. And this couple happened to be having a drink in that pub, and I run in there to use the toilet, to use the restroom and they nearly fell off their stools, let me tell you that.

Jace Lacob: Oh my God. Amazing.

Jo Martin: “We’ve come all the way from Australia”, I was just absolutely baffled. So yeah, it’s a beautiful thing. It really, really is. And everyone in their shops now saying, “When are you going to come and film in our shop? When are you going to come and do this, or when are you going to wear my clothes from this shop in your show? Come and drink your coffee here.” I’m writing down names. I keep giving things to production saying, can’t we film here? Can’t we go here?

Jace Lacob: I really like the coffee in this one cafe. Maybe a scene could be shot there? Yeah, maybe?

Jo Martin: Yes. Honestly, there’s one particular shop. Oh my God, what do you call it? The matcha. Oh, yoy yoy. Anyway.

Jace Lacob: I love a matcha.

Jo Martin: Yes.

Jace Lacob: One of my favorite moments in Series Two is seeing you, Samantha Bond, and Cara Horgan attempt to follow a suspect through the streets of Marlow on a mobility scooter. And I know you had some stunt doubles here perhaps, but what was it like filming this dramatic and hilarious low-speed, high-stakes chase scene?

Jo Martin: Let me tell you, it was the best. And I didn’t think— you know, it’s amazing what you do in an edit, how you can make something look so good. Because I just thought, is this a bit naff? Is this going to work? Is this really… But it really isn’t. On seeing it and actually on performing it, yes, we had doubles, why are you exposing our secrets? Why are you doing that? They did very little. I didn’t use much of my stunt woman. She lied.

Jace Lacob: It was all you. It was all you.

Jo Martin: Exactly. I’m a great mobility scooter rider. I’m actually skilled in that. I trained, as you can see. You know, all jokes aside, it was just an absolute scream. And then like stopping off at one point we got ice creams. You didn’t know that, did you?

Jace Lacob: No.

Jo Martin: Because we were being so good, we got ice cream cones passed. And it was a really hot day. That’s the only other thing, it was like we were melting. Really, really melting, but a lot of fun. And the gentleman who owned the scooter, Bob, who’s not actually even an SA, but he’s an actual natural. This guy, he had two lines and he was like, are you trying to upstage us? What are you trying, mate? Why are you trying to upstage us? And they didn’t use all the stuff that he did. We improved a lot of stuff with him, and he was just terrific. So much so that he’s made it into Season Three. I mean, maybe I shouldn’t say that, I don’t know.

Jace Lacob: Oh, I like it. I’m going to keep an eye out for him. Do you see Suzie as occupying a sort of peacekeeper role between the eccentric Judith and cautious Becks? How would you describe the three points on their triangle of friendship?

Jo Martin: Well naturally, Judith is almost… She’s our leader because at the end of the day, she started this whole thing. So she is the leader. And Becks is a follower because she’s got a really kind of like, although she has a husband and children, she’s very unsatisfied. I think she’s got similar feelings to what Suzie’s going through in the sense that she’s lost herself in motherhood to the point that she doesn’t know who she is, and she’s kind of fed up. She’s kind of constrained as in, you’re the vicar’s wife. You can’t do this, you can’t say that, you have to dress in a certain way. And I think she wants to break out of it. There’s a bit of a rebel in her also. She gets a bloody tattoo. And that’s way out there for the vicar’s wife. Even though it’s a small little thing and no one else can see it, only she knows it’s there.

And I suppose Suzie, she’s a risk taker. She’ll take more risks than both of them, I think, and will encourage that. Even though Judith, don’t get it twisted, Judith, she ain’t easy. This old lady who’s a retired archaeologist. But I think the three of us are like, I suppose we’re like, what are those girls that used to be there with Bosley. We’re like the… ah, you’re too young. You wouldn’t even know who Bosley is.

Jace Lacob: Charlie’s Angels. Charlie’s Angels.

Jo Martin: Charlie’s Angels, thank you.

Jace Lacob: I know who Bosley is. Thank you very much, Jo.

Jo Martin: Well, we ain’t got no Bosley. But Charlie’s Angels, you know what I mean? We are out there watching each other’s backs. It’s a sisterhood, and it’s a powerful one. And I think it can only grow and grow. I’m just waiting for the time when we can get to use our fighting skills because I got some moves just so you know.

Jace Lacob: Does Suzie know kung fu?

Jo Martin: Come on. Why are you wasting your time asking me that? Of course she does!

Jace Lacob: Of course she does. Of course she does. Suzie scolds Judith in Episode Two. She says,

 

CLIP

Suzie: Come on, Jenny. You said he’d approach from the front!

Judith: Well we caught him, didn’t we?

Becks: Not really, Tanika did.

Suzie: You get so caught up in your own ideas, don’t you? Thinking you’re so clever. And everything’s a riddle that you can solve. Well, Judith, we are not a riddle. We are real people. And Jenny could’ve been killed!

 

Jace Lacob: And it’s a bit of play acting to catch the killer. But how much truth is there to what Suzie is saying here about Judith?

Jo Martin: I think there was some truth when she did that. And I think she went almost too far, and Judith felt that. We both instinctively felt that, both characters felt that so much so that later on in the episode that we have to kind of conclude, we have to, well I do. I think my character apologized and said, look, I meant it, but I didn’t mean it. And she knows this because Judith does go too far sometimes. She does get caught up in things and she thinks it’s like it’s not a game of chess. We’re not pieces on a chess board, you know?

And as much as she has, you know, she has a lot of compassion also. And she loves people, but she does get in her head and forgets the human element of this thing and how people can get hurt. And it was really sweet, when we filmed the scene, when they all arrive at my house, I think, and they arrive with pizzas. Because I say to Judith at one point, “I love you”, but she doesn’t say it back to me in one of the scenes. She doesn’t say it back, and it’s really like, oh, okay, she’s still mad at me and whatever. But she turns up on my doorstep and she says, I do love you.

 

CLIP

Becks: We thought you might want some company.

Judith: Seeing as you’re our friend and… we love you.

Suzie: You’d better come in then!

 

Jo Martin: And the strangest thing happened. It’s not in the script, it doesn’t say that we have to well up and cry or anything like that. It’s not high emotion like that. We’re just happy that we’re all together again, but we both welled up. We both felt this huge emotion that washed over us. It was so real. It was so in the moment. And that’s when I really thought, we’ve really got something here, the chemistry between the three of us. Because, as I said, we hadn’t rehearsed that, it wasn’t in the script, but it just happened, so much so that we had to pull back on it. When we did it again, we pulled back. I can’t remember what they used actually, what take. We did different versions, but that first initial version that was our true real feeling just came through. Gosh.

Jace Lacob: That’s very, very sweet. It did make me wonder earlier when she does say,

 

CLIP

Suzie: I’m sorry about what I said. Did I go too far? Did I? I mean, I didn’t mean any of it. I mean, we’re your friends. You know – we get you, Judith. Even if sometimes we like to tease you, it’s because we love you. And this is the bit where you say the same thing back to me.

Judith: Yeah… well…

Tanika: Sorry – where’s Becks? And where’s my car?

 

Jace Lacob: Does it sting that she’s silent, or is that in keeping with her nature? Does Suzie question their friendship before Judith then shows up on the doorstep?

Jo Martin: I think definitely she questioned their relationship and what it was. And maybe she’s gone too far this time, Suzie feels that. And of course it’s going to… I mean, imagine saying, it’s like when you meet a new partner and the first person that says, I love you, and they say, thank you. I mean, it’s like what? What do you mean ‘thank you’? It’s your turn now. Come on. And I think that she was totally deflated in that moment. And that’s what I hoped I portrayed. And just felt a little let down because she wears her heart very much on her sleeve, whereas Judith is a bit more cautious about things like that. But thankfully, as you see, we kind of get over that, and she comes back and tells me that she loves me too.

Jace Lacob: And it’s very sweet. It’s very sweet.

 

MIDROLL

 

Jace Lacob: We’re back with Marlow Murder Club star, Jo Martin. Suzie shows a great deal of resilience as she looks to reinvent herself outside of her role as a single mom. Were there any moments of struggle for Suzie this series that resonated with you personally as an actor or as a mom yourself?

Jo Martin: Yeah, very much so. I mean, all mothers can relate to this. You’re bringing your kids up, and you’ll always see them as a baby. And the idea that Zeta is suddenly going to be living on her own and cooking food or not, because she can’t cook, living on pot noodles. Same as my son, the idea that, I just see that same little boy who, the first time he had his own hotel room and he wasn’t sharing with me and his dad, and he said, oh, mom, I’m going to make drinking chocolate. And he put the drink in chocolate in the kettle. And then everything kind of exploded. And he comes running around going, I don’t know what’s happened! Drinking chocolate everywhere in this hotel room. We were like, oh my gosh.

And you know, those memories remind me, I think of, when I was doing the scenes with Zeta and I’m like, my God. You try to equip them for everything, but you can’t. They have to make mistakes. They have to go out there and learn. And the only way they can really, truly learn is by making mistakes. So that really resonates with me, and the thing of trying to let go, trying to not be too busy in their business once they get to 18, to let them have the freedom to make those mistakes. Because you want to protect them. You want to wrap them in cotton wool, but it’s not good.

Jace Lacob: In Episode Six, Suzie gets a little too close to danger. A lot of what they investigate seems to be kept at arm’s length. In a way, it’s a bit of a lark. But this is the first time that Suzie’s life is on the line. For a character as fearless as Suzie, what was it like tapping into her genuine fear here?

Jo Martin: My God. Well, let me tell you something. Number one, I don’t love boats too much, okay. And this little rickety boat, they said it had to look rickety, but it’s not rickety. I’m like, it looks rickety, and it is rickety. So when I was screaming for help, I wasn’t acting. It was real because I was flipping well scared. Because when the water started to come in, it was just me and the cameraman and the poor dog on this rickety little thing. I was like, oh my God, not like this, please not like this! But going back to Suzie, I think the shock, because as you said, it’s all a lark. And we’re having a laugh, we’re doing this and we’re doing that. And suddenly, suddenly she’s faced with real danger that she could actually die.

And having this kind of regret like, why have I gone so far? Why did I push it so far? My daughter, who’s going to look after my daughter? All these things are running through her head when she’s on this boat. And I think after an incident like that in other seasons, in other episodes, she’s a little bit more mindful. Yes, she’s still out there. Yeah she still will take risks and this and that. But that’s always going to be in the back of her mind, that she could have lost her life because she went too far and she hadn’t taken enough precaution to make herself safe. And her poor dog could have died as well. Poor Luna.

Jace Lacob: But it does track in a way. Zeta’s gone, and I feel like Suzie shifts her attachment in a way to Luna. And it’s a very easy way for the killer to target her. Her love for Luna becomes this Achilles heel, something that can be exploited when Luna’s held for ransom. Is it out of desperation that Suzie goes off without telling the others? Is she just so desperate to reclaim Luna?

Jo Martin: The thing is, she doesn’t think. It would be like if her daughter was in trouble. It’s the same thing. She would not stop to think. She becomes selfless in that situation. She’s so in that moment of, “I have to save my dog.” And that’s the most important thing in that moment, not what might be behind the door or what might be behind me, or what may befall me. It’s not important, do you know what I mean? She’s so determined that she’s going to save the day with this dog. And she loves animals. She’s an animal lover full stop. Never mind her own dog, Luna and the history behind why she has Luna. The fact that Luna’s original owner was shot and he iss dead. He’s dead. And she needs even more love than any other dog she’s ever had because she’s lost her lifelong owner. It’s like she does not think about the dangers at all.

Jace Lacob: And you said the word ‘selfless’, and that I think, really tracks. She does find Luna on a boat near Swallows Reach, and they both end up locked in the cabin, as you said. And we know that in real life you, Jo Martin, were freaking out about that.

Jo Martin: Yeah. I don’t love it.

Jace Lacob: Don’t like the boats. Don’t like the water. But Suzie tries to keep Luna calm in the scene, even though they both might die, the boat might sink. And that selflessness, I feel like we see that so particularly in that moment. She cares so much about keeping this dog calm, even if this is the end for both of them.

Jo Martin: Absolutely, absolutely. The idea, as you said, when you say that okay, because Zeta’s gone and the dog’s taken over, it’s the same kind of love and protection that she has in her heart for this dog. And the idea of Luna being afraid is just the worst. So therefore, she has to put her feelings to one side and calm this dog and make her, if we are going to die, you’re going to die calmly, okay? You’re not going to be scared because I’m going to be telling you we’re going to be fine, everything’s good. Even though she does not know that. She does not know that. But I love that moment for Suzie on that boat with the dog. It touched my heart because she’ll go above and beyond. She went above and beyond when she made the kind of moves that, it’s a bit superhero-ish.

Jace Lacob: It is, it is though. So at one point, Judith quotes Confucius in Episode Five. She says, “We have two lives, and the second begins when we realize we only have one.” Do you think that Suzie’s brush with death will change her outlook on life at all, push her towards beginning her second life now that Zeta has moved on?

Jo Martin: Truly believe that. I think those words touched her soul. Her second life truly has to begin. As my mother would say, you’re not promised tomorrow, we’re promised now. And to live it fully and embrace each day like it’s your last. And to achieve whatever you can achieve and to be as fearless as you can be, and not to let fear stop you from doing… Fear has stopped her from doing lots of things, it stops all of us from doing lots of things. Because we feel we’re not good enough, or we’re this or we’re that. That little stupid voice that sits on our shoulder sometimes telling us that you’re rubbish.

Jace Lacob: Our inner critic.

Jo Martin: Our inner critic. Exactly. And I think her ex-husband has a lot to do with it also. Though, we haven’t really explored that fully yet. There’s a little bit when Zeta goes off to see her father in Jamaica and spend time and you hear a little bit about what it was and what it wasn’t with this father, because he’s suddenly back on the scene and he wasn’t really there when she was struggling, bringing Zeta up. But suddenly now he’s mister hero.

And I think she would have worked really hard at trying not to impose her feelings about her ex-husband onto her daughter, as my mother did, actually, she was very, very good. She’d always say, that’s your dad, don’t judge him on behavior between the two of them. And some people don’t do that. They’ll just be slagging each other. Oh, your dad’s nothing. My mother never did that and I don’t think Suzie would have done that because it’s not healthy. And I’m quite interested to see who, if they ever bring him back. I think Denzel could do that part. Denzel would be quite good. Yeah.

Jace Lacob: Denzel Washington.

Jo Martin: Why not? Why do you say it so surprised?

Jace Lacob: No.

Jo Martin: You don’t think I could have him?

Jace Lacob: I mean, Suzie, in a heartbeat. Yes. Bring on Denzel.

Jo Martin: He might be a little old for me, but hey, he was an older guy, I was a younger girl. What do you want to know?

Jace Lacob: One of the things I love about Marlow is that it does remind us that a second act in life can be found at any point, even after our kids have flown the nest, like Suzie. Or we’re in retirement, like Judith. Or when we’re struggling like Becks. Do you think, despite the murders, that Marlow is a show rooted in the optimistic?

Jo Martin: Absolutely. It’s so optimistic. Just the settings alone make you feel good about life. Sometimes you look at that river and you just take a deep breath and you exhale and you’re like, wow, the beauty. And the way it’s shot. And I also think that Marlow is the, okay I say the Three Musketeers or the Charlie’s Angels, but Marlow is the fourth kind of person in the show. It’s such a joy. And okay, we’re dealing with murders and we’re dealing with people dying, but it’s not like a darkness. It’s not like we’re doing those kind of dark, where we’re seeing people’s bodies mangled. You never see anything like that. This is kind of old school murder mystery. I hate to say it but it’s true, it’s cozy.

It’s lovely what the writers do, it really is. I think these writers are amazing on this show. They understand, they lean into this genre and they understand it. And that’s what people want. Yes, we all like a bit of, what they call it, the Slow Horses. I love all that as well and love a bit of the darker side of things. I love all that. But there’s a place for something like this where you just can, you know you’re safe.

Jace Lacob: At the end of the day, the murderer is caught. Life in Marlow returns to normal and you can kind of breathe. You can exhale and be comforted.

Jo Martin: We end on a nice champagne or we’re eating nice English cream tea or we’re having some nice cucumber sandwiches. Ah, that’s all I can say.

Jace Lacob: Amazing. Earlier this year you returned to Doctor Who to briefly reprise your role as the fugitive doctor in a gorgeous episode, “The Story and the Engine.”

Jo Martin: Yes.

Jace Lacob: You were the first person of color to play the doctor. Do you view yourself as a trailblazer?

Jo Martin: Yes I do. Next question. No, I don’t know. You’re a jobbing actor, you’re out there doing your thing, and suddenly a job like this comes along and they say, oh, you’re going to be a doctor. You’re like, what? And when I auditioned, I didn’t know, they didn’t tell me I was auditioning to play a doctor. And I think if they had told me, the stakes would have been so high, I might have blown the audition because I would have been too nervous.

And my boys were like, they love Doctor Who and they always see my friends in Doctor Who and they’re like, “When are you going to do a part in Doctor Who? Mum?” I’m like, I don’t write the bloody shows. I’ll have to wait if I get an audition. So when I got the audition and they were like, oh you’re going to audition for Doctor Who? And I was like yeah. And they were like, oh, what are you playing? I said, oh, somebody’s wife. And they’re like, oh, great, great, great. And then I got the job. And then they made the call to me and said, listen, this is much bigger than you realize. And la la la. And I was like, wow, that’s my pension. Nice.

Jace Lacob: Love it. Jo Martin, thank you so very much.

Jo Martin: Thank you.

 

On October 5th, travel with MASTERPIECE to Paris and 1980s South London as we premiere two new series: Maigret, a modern-day update of Georges Simenon’s crime-solving French detective, and the PBS broadcast premiere of The Gold, which tracks the pulse-pounding investigation into the largest gold heist in British history. 

 

CLIP

Maigret: I had a strange dream.

Louise: Was I in it?

Maigret: Not this time.

 

That’s Maigret at 9 p.m. and The Gold at 10 p.m., launching October 5th.