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 I think it's the most likely outcome,
although I hope for a better outcome than that.
 I believe, and I truly believe
this, that given the advances that we're now making in the biological
sciences, while we may never be able to say that chemical "x"
caused a specific injury, we may be able to say what is wrong
with a soldier, diagnose him and then find out, if we have to
rely on symptomatic treatments, if there are other kinds of treatments
that can be formulated.
No, because the initial reports
of this possibly being as a result of low-level agent exposure,
and when the committee's investigation was in its heyday, if you
will, there weren't all of these allegations of cover-up at that
time. There were allegations that there may be a problem here:
we're having an investigation, it looks like the troops were exposed,
the Pentagon's investigation was still ongoing, and the numbers
of soldiers that came forward went through the roof. In the last
year, where the cover-up
has come to the forefront as the issue rather than the Gulf War
syndrome itself, we haven't seen that kind of increase in the
registry roles. We're seeing a sort of stabilization in the number of
soldiers who were coming forward and registering, despite the
fact that right now there's probably the highest level of press
coverage involving the fact that the Pentagon may have deceived
Congress and the public on this issue.
I think the phenomenon exists
largely independently of the public perception of whether there's
been a cover-up.
I meant exactly what I said:
the fact that we had soldiers who were exposed to a variety of
toxic substances during the war, who were told that in fact there
was no relationship between their exposures and their illnesses,
were told that they were mentally ill, were cast off, if you will,
by the government. The fact that reports have continued to come
out from the government telling them that what they saw didn't
happen, that the detections they made and the training that they
had was worthless, that the sensors that they had didn't work.
Saddam Hussein was not responsible for tens of thousands of casualties
and, in fact, we have very good reason to believe that the exposures
that these soldiers sustained during this war could have resulted
in tens of thousands of casualties. Not because of the fact that
the exposures were present, not because there were low levels
of nerve gas in the air, but because when our alarms went off,
when our soldiers detected chemicals, when the Czechs detected
chemicals, when the French detected chemicals and when the British
detected chemicals, we told them that it wasn't enough to hurt
you, you don't have to wear the equipment, you don't have to listen
to the alarms. In fact, many units were told to disable the alarms.
That's a problem. That's a problem because, in fact, there is
literature that indicates that low levels can hurt you and, while
it may not be the consensus in the community, it's certainly a
debatable issue that is going to need to be resolved, not only
for the benefit of those who were injured in the Gulf but for
the benefit of those who may be injured as a result of those poorly
conceived policies in the future.
I don't think we know whether,
and the magnitude of, excess morbidity among the group of soldiers
deployed to the Gulf. So we know that there are some individuals
who are ill. I've emphasized that we would anticipate illnesses,
some unexplained illnesses, in any group of 650,000 individuals,
especially under those circumstances. So where I would not have
"We have not demonstrated
that there is excess
morbidity and we don't
know the magnitude of it." ...
Ware
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been able to make that statement is, I don't believe that we know.
We have not demonstrated that there is excess morbidity and we
don't know the magnitude of it.
My response to that is, if we
had a phenomenon in our general population where 10 percent or
12 percent of the individuals in this country between the ages
of 25 and 40 were complaining of some unknown chronic illness,
whether we had a handle on it or not, we would be up in arms.
We would be in hysteria. And we would be doing everything we could
to try and resolve that problem. We would be doing epidemiologies
and cluster studies to try and find out what happened here in
this country to cause that to happen. And my concern is, that
we sit there and we write it off to stress, we write it off to
low-levels-can't-hurt-you. I mean, even you've acknowledged that
that is a debatable agenda item in the scientific community. And
this is what these soldiers were told. They didn't wear their
masks. They ignored their alarms. Now if in fact there is any
correlation, if in fact these agents were detected and confirmed,
as indeed the Pentagon even admits occurred on some occasions,
then we are responsible for, if you will, irresponsible behavior
in terms of protecting their safety. And, again, we've got 10
to 12 percent of these individuals now coming forward, complaining
of symptoms, symptoms that they directly attribute to their experience
in the Gulf. Yes, some of them would have happened anyway. But,
I mean, if you're telling me that 12 percent of the people in
America, in that same age group are in the same straits, then
I'm not surprised that we have the health costs in this country
that we do.
Actually 50 percent of visits
to doctors' offices are for diffuse symptoms of the type that
are mentioned here, which do not lead to a diagnosis.
And, then again, that would go
back to my point before. Because the doctor is ignorant it doesn't
mean that the patient is faking.
No, I'm speaking to the point
that this phenomenon is common in general experience, that people
are ill, they don't feel well, they go to the doctor, the doctor
can't explain it.
What percentage of those individuals,
though, have chronic illnesses? I'm not talking about a one-time,
"I don't feel good I'm going to the doctor," but, "I
haven't felt good for the last five years, I can't remember any
more."
Well, we would have to discuss
more carefully how to make the comparative.
I understand.
And I don't think that the evidence
is strong enough to really do this quantitatively, but it is true
that some of these phenomena are prevalent in general populations.
And I guess my concern is, and
the point that I've been trying to make is that you, and I are
now sitting there talking from general knowledge, the comments
that we are making are for the most part anecdotal, you know,
are based on what we've read. My concern is, again, we've got
a cluster here of the American population that shares a common
experience. We need to do the studies.
I agree with you 100 percent,
provided that they're carefully reviewed, and we don't waste the
public's money.
No, except that, again, the point
that I just made. We really do need to take a look at this as
not a political problem, not a cover-up problem. We have to assume
that toxic exposures occurred. Regardless of whether or not those
exposures are related to the illness, we have to assume that this
occurred or may have occurred, that many or all of the soldiers
may have been exposed, because I don't know how we're going to
differentiate one person from another. We have been able to in
the past. And then from there, move on to do the kind of independent,
peer-reviewed, scientific research that is necessary to identify
the magnitude and nature of the problem and to find out the course,
consequence and potential treatment for the illnesses being suffered
by these veterans.
I hope that the transcript of
this will reflect that we both feel that every effort should be
made to care for the individuals. I think of your opening statement
about this is a group of individuals who served our country and
went to the Gulf in the military service, and I think the country
should err on the side of making every effort to attend to their
illnesses and to their health problems. I hope that we can separate
that question of caring for individuals from the question of whether
we understand it, and can make a determination about whether there
is a Gulf War Syndrome and a story about exposure that explains
it.
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