Congresswomen’s Bipartisan Effort Ousts Reps Accused of Sexual Misconduct

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Next, a look at bipartisan collaboration on Capitol Hill. A pair of female lawmakers from across the aisle successfully pushed two congressmen accused of sexual misconduct to resign. Republican Anna Paulina Luna and Democrat Teresa Leger Fernández argued that all the allegations against them made it impossible for Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzales to serve. They joined Michel Martin to discuss accountability and whether this signals a broader push for reform in Congress.

 

MICHEL MARTIN: Thanks, Christiane. Representative Anna Paulina Luna, and Representative Teresa Leger Fernández, thank you both so much for joining us. 

 

REP. ANNA PAULINA LUNA: Thank you so much for having us.

 

REP. TERESA LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: Thank you. Michel.

 

MARTIN: How did you two start working together? Who saw who first?

 

LUNA:I think actually first, we first connected during the Vote by proxy and representative Leger Fernández reached out during the whole efforts to expel both Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzales. And we basically decided to work together on this very important issue. And I’m glad we did, ’cause we both won big.

 

MARTIN: Look, we are all hearing just how polarized things are, you know, on the Hill. The reality of it is that we don’t hear a lot of kind of bipartisan sort of working. So Representative Leger Fernández, how did it sort of occur to you that this might be a good idea to work together?

 

LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: So I’m chair of the Democratic Women’s Caucus, and we are always looking for ways in which we can work on a bipartisan basis with women in Congress, period. And the issue of sexual assault and sexual violence has no partisan boundaries. And so I was furious when I heard of the allegations against Eric Swalwell when I saw the evidence. And I had also been very angry about Tony Gonzales and the failure of speaker Johnson, honestly, to take any action against Tony Gonzales, who had admitted six weeks earlier that he had violated our code. You saw Representative Anna Paulina Luna taking a very public stance about this was wrong with regards to Swalwell. I called her up, I said, it’s equally as wrong with regards to Representative Gonzales. And she agreed. And so based on that phone call, we began a week long series of communications, of work to accomplish what happened in pretty quick time. I mean, from the – not for Gonzales, ’cause that went on way too long – but for Swalwell it was within four days he had chosen to resign rather than face expulsion.

 

MARTIN: The allegations against both men are disturbing. In Representative Gonzales’s case, first he denied having an affair with a subordinate, a subordinate who later took her own life. And then he later admitted it. I mean, so he lied. Representative Swalwell slightly different in the sense it was more of like a drip, drip drip, like one woman and then another woman, and then another woman coming forward with these disturbing allegations, one of them a staffer. So Representative Luna, what was the moment for you when you just said, look, enough is enough? I mean, ’cause the Ethics Committee was looking into these allegations. 

 

LUNA: I remember hearing, you know, the rumors early on about Tony. And then when we saw the article drop shortly thereafter, I remember telling my staff, I was like, this is not normal that you have a staffer lighting themselves on fire there, there has to be more to this. And I started doing my own digging. And I was furious that initially after he made that admission, that he decided that he was still going to seek reelection.

We have a lot of young people that come up on here, both men and women. And not to say that sexual harassment and assault doesn’t happen to men, but specifically within this institution with younger women it seems to be a very, very prevalent problem. And if I had the votes to expel him right there, I would’ve. And at the time, I didn’t feel that I had those votes possible to get it done. But I remember it was a Thursday before stuff started breaking on Swalwell. There was another woman who came forward about inappropriate text messages and sexual harassment. And I saw the messages from Tony and I was like, this is total predatory behavior. I had also, in between that time period obtained messages specifically from the widow of the woman who committed suicide and saw what was not publicly available at the request of the family not to release. Because they had a young, there was a young child involved.

But the fact that ethics had sat on this and not made the recommendation right then and there, as soon as they got those messages for him to be gone, I got really ticked off. And I was like, if I have to, you know, call out my own party for this, I’m going to, and you know, that’s when you kind of just saw it snowball. 

 

MARTIN: Representative Leger Fernández, what about you? What was the line where you said, you know what? Enough is enough. We can’t wait for the ethics committee.

 

LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: Well I think that expulsion is an extraordinary measure. It’s done very few times since our founding, but it’s in our constitution. If you can convince two thirds of your members that the actions are so heinous and outrageous, then you can expel a member for these kinds of actions. They had violated the code. And so I think that that’s all you needed was they violated a code that was very clear, that was meant to protect women. 

 

MARTIN: This is what Mr. Swalwell says. I just do need to, to read it. He says, “I’m deeply sorry to my family, staff, and constituents for mistakes in judgment I’ve made in my past. I will fight the serious false allegation made against me. However, I must take responsibility and ownership for the mistakes I did make.” He says, “I’m aware of efforts to bring an immediate expulsion vote against me and other members. Expelling anyone in Congress without due process within days of an allegation being made is wrong. But it’s also wrong for my constituents to have me distracted from my duties. Therefore, I plan to resign my seat in Congress.”

Mr. Gonzales, after having acknowledged this relationship, he posted on X saying “There’s a season for everything and God has a plan for us all. When Congress returns, I will file my retirement from office. It’s been my privilege to serve the great people of Texas.”

So here’s a question I have for you both, was the goal to force a formal vote, or was it to create enough pressure that resignations became the most likely outcome?

 

LUNA: It was multifaceted. So I think, you know, deep down, both me and Leger Fernández were hoping that they would do the right thing and resign. And I had again posted that if they had any ounce of integrity based on what was being presented to them, that they would not force everyone through this process. But that if we needed to, we would be willing to essentially pull the trigger and force the votes. Which you saw enough people on both sides come out and say, it’s time for these, these guys to go. And the common consensus on the hill that week was, it’s time to take out the trash. And I don’t think it just stops there, though. What I’ve realized is that because you have such a consolidation of power, it is really hard for some of these people to come forward if they are, you know, being sexually harassed because they are fear, they are feared that A, they’re gonna get blackballed within the hill, that they won’t get hired. And then also two, having to go through, I think, the media firestorm that’s been created. And I don’t think that this is the end of what you’re going to be hearing, at least from the Hill. I think that there, you know, is some other stuff coming down the pipe.

MARTIN: What about this question of due process, though? Public figures in lots of fields, they’re celebrities. And celebrities will say that sometimes they do attract sort of false allegations. So I just wanted to ask how that question of due process landed with, with both of you?

 

LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: For me from my motion to expel, we had an admission. You had a confession. He said he did it. Right? And Americans are fed up with powerful men using and abusing women without consequence. He admitted, six weeks later he’s still voting. And you know what, I had to file that motion because he, what you just read, he had said he was gonna stay on maybe through May. And I said, uh-uh,  staying on through May isn’t enough. You need to resign and resign immediately. And the reality to your question is, why did we do it? Because if we wouldn’t have filed the motion, the resolutions to expel, they wouldn’t have resigned. And when you think of what the evidence that came out with regards to Swalwell was overwhelming and he kept nudging, he denied it as well. His initial denials were ‘I didn’t have sex.’ Right? And then his subsequent denials were ‘I didn’t have sexual assault.’ Now our code says no sex. Because the reason why there is no sexual relationships with a staffer is because that power relationship can never be undone. You could never have consent when there is that power relationship. Because our staffers rely on us for their paycheck, for their promotions, for their – they look up to us. And that’s why I think it’s important that we hold ourselves to a higher standard. It’s important that if we are going to say we need to prosecute the Epstein predators, that we also need to hold ourselves to those same kind of standards. I wanna prosecute the Epstein predators. I wanna make sure that nobody and none of my colleagues are gonna get away with this kind of behavior either. 

 

MARTIN: Doesn’t it mean, the fact that they resigned, doesn’t it mean that they kept get to keep their pensions?

 

LUNA: Well, so if they have one or they pay into it, yes. And that’s what has to be changed now in the House rules. And I actually have some legislation that I’m working with another member of Congress on, and I think that that will be bipartisanly supported. The last time we saw this type of resignation happening was back in 2018. And I think up until that point, it actually wasn’t illegal to have an inappropriate sexual relationship with your staffer. I think something else that can be added into that though to reform it is, you know, not having inappropriate relationships with other people’s staffers. Because what we’re finding again, is this culture that’s created, there’s an unfair power dynamic. We are the company that we keep and we don’t wanna be associated with this type of behavior. And when there was a failure for leadership on both sides to do the right thing, we stepped up to the plate. But what we found after the fact is that many people were thankful for us for doing it. And a lot of people had our back on it. And so again, you know, this code of conduct has to be seen across the board. It can’t be biased depending on who’s in power. And so I’m just hoping that we can continue to kind of work through this process. It’s definitely a growing pain, but I’d like to get back to the work of the American people.

 

MARTIN: Until 2018, Congress was actually exempt from most of the civil rights laws that applied to other places of business. There really wasn’t even any really reporting mechanism if you were experiencing sort of this kind of conduct. Is there still a legacy of impunity from that time when Congress really literally was exempt from the same laws that attached to other workplaces?

 

LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: That does exist and what we are working on now – ’cause we can’t say, okay, we got rid of these two. There’s others you know, we have allegations against Cory Mills that needs to – we need to get that done. But what we are working really hard on is what do we need to do to build on the reforms that Jackie Speier started back in 2018. And so we are having those meetings now. We are looking at what are the legislative, what are the legal changes we need to do? Because It needs to happen on two bases. One is we have to reform the systems and the processes that kept these women from reporting it. And two, we need to change the culture so the people who come here know that they can’t use their power as ‘I get to do whatever I want to my staff or anybody else’s staff.’ And it takes this outrage that I think percolated up with regards to these two men, the outrage that has percolated up because of the Epstein survivors. We are done with it. Like, I am so done with men thinking that they can take advantage of women in this way just ’cause they have power.

 

MARTIN: You’ve alluded to another member Cory Mills of Florida, who has been accused by two different women, not congressional staff, of inappropriate conduct. In fact, one actually had a restraining order against him. Another woman, apparently there was a police encounter in Washington DC related to him. She didn’t move forward with charges. I guess one of the things – and so that matter is also before the ethics committee as well. I am curious if you feel as a person who’s called leadership into account for not, in your view, taking these matters as seriously as they should have. Do you think you’re paying a price for this?

 

LUNA: There’s a couple members to be clear. It’s not just Cory. There’s a couple. One of them is a senator and I’ve been cooperating with Senate ethics over there. I actually just wrote an op-ed in a – I think The Spectator yesterday about the overhaul the ethics needs to see. I think ethics needs to complete gutting, and I need it, I think it needs to be reappointed with people that will take these allegations seriously. It shouldn’t take, you know, three years. 

 

People that are sitting under ethics investigations. What will typically happen is, from what I gather, the party in power basically will slow roll the release of certain things. And I take abuse very seriously, right? Like I’ve had friends that have been in abusive relationships and I know what that can do to people. And so when I hear these types of things happening, and remember you have a sitting member of Congress that’s facing these allegations that’s not a good thing. And there’s multiple things there. And I’ve said very publicly, I don’t care if it’s a Democrat or a Republican, if there is evidence of violation of our code of conduct in the House, our rules, FEC reporting rules, FEC laws, or if someone’s facing and has legal documentation showing that they’ve done something illegal, then they should not be serving in the House of Representatives. And if someone calls up an expulsion vote, I will vote to expel that member. 

 

To Leger Fernández’s Point, this process has taken far too long and too many people that were guilty. Okay, you had Tony Gonzales, he should have been out.  You had Swalwell, he was out fairly quickly. And then you had Cherfilus-McCormick who was under investigation for three years. She should have been out. And so that’s what I’m saying is that we have to change the process.

But again we are doing this in addition to everything else that we’re doing, in addition to now fighting for reelections. And so I just hope that we can continue to provide the building blocks to continue to further and push this conversation. But I do think right now big changes are happening. And again, you saw three resignations within a week. So that tells you something.

 

MARTIN: But I’m asking you, do you think that you are paying a price for your advocacy in this area? Because as you pointed out, Congress is still a top down place.

 

LUNA: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been for sure on some issues that I’ve advocated for – I’ll just tell you directly I pushed for vote by proxy for new moms, and I know for a fact that people in leadership planted articles about me to try to make me look bad. So yeah, I definitely think I am.

 

MARTIN: What about you, representative Leger Fernández? I mean, obviously Democrats are in the minority at the moment, but I do wonder whether you feel like leadership sees you as a thorn in the side.

 

LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: I will say that I am not only not a thorn in the side, I am thanked. I mean, there is a lot of gratitude coming from my leadership for the work that we have been doing both myself, personally, working together – ’cause we do see it as a bipartisan matter – working together with Representative Luna. And saying like, how do we now begin the conversations to reframe it? I got support from my leadership from the day I called them. Like I was so mad Friday night. And I had been talking to them about Gonzales, about what can we do about Gonzales? Our problem is he wasn’t a member of our party. Right? And it was a little harder for us because we didn’t have the votes. But it was, that’s what it took was it took Representative Luna and I teaming up, knowing that we could deliver the votes on both of these men on a bipartisan basis. But my leadership was with me. My leadership is with me now, when we look at saying how do we work together to reframe this process? And it absolutely must be bipartisan –based and it has to include all of us.

 

MARTIN: Okay. So before we let you go. Let’s talk about what needs to happen going forward 

 

LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: So we need to take those reforms that were began by Jackie Speier, and we need to update them to reflect the moment we’re in, including the moment we’re in with regards to what the social media looks like, what all of that looks like. And we need to rely on who are the experts here? And I keep saying we know who the experts are. They’re the women who work for Congress. Because they’re gonna be able to share with us why aren’t they reporting? What do they need? What do they need so they feel protected and respected when they file a complaint. How – because right now it takes so long, you’re forced into mediation. It goes – there’s so many different offices. How do we get that streamlined? How do we make sure that we have those conversations across the line and get something done?

 

We can’t wait till next year. We can’t say, well, we are gonna wait. Right? We’re gonna wait until – when Democrats get the gavels, we’ll work on this. But this is a bipartisan issue. We need to work. I’ve already talked to some of the leaders on the other side. We’ve been, I’ve been, as the Democratic Women’s caucus, I have been asking to sit down with Johnson since basically the week I got elected. There’s 96 Democratic women in the house. He’s refused to sit down with me. Hopefully, maybe he’ll sit down with Representative Luna and I together.

But those are the next steps that then we actually, I think there’s some laws we need to pass. And then there’s just some processes we need to change in addition to that idea that this is no longer, guys, it ain’t an old boys club, a young boys club. It is America’s house. We need more. 

 

MARTIN: Representative Anna Paulina Luna, Representative Teresa Leger Fernández, thank you both so much for talking with us. 

 

LUNA: Thank you.

 

LEGER FERNÁNDEZ: Thank you, Michel.