05.10.2019

Ben Taub on “Guantánamo’s Darkest Secret”

Guantánamo Bay, the U.S. military prison, is often seen as the opposite of due process, where detainees in the War on Terror have been held without charge or trial since 2001. “The New Yorker” journalist Ben Taub’s latest piece is about one man who was held in Guantánamo Bay for more than a decade. Taub joins Alicia Menendez to discuss the piece “Guantánamo’s Darkest Secret.”

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THE RULE OF LAW AND THE PROTECTIONS AFFORDED BY THE CONSTITUTION ARE A MATTER OF NATIONAL PRIDE.

GUANTANAMO BAY, THE U.S.

MILITARY PRISON IN SOUTHEASTER CUBA IS OFTEN SEEN AS THE OPPOSITE OF DUE PROCESS, WHERE DETAINEES HAVE BEEN HELD WITHOUT CHARGE OR TRIAL SINCE 2001.

A NEW YORKER JOURNALIST LATEST PIECE IS ABOUT ONE MAN WHO WAS HELD IN THE PRISON FOR MORE THAN A DECADE.

HE SPOKE ABOUT THE DETAINEE'S ACCOUNT OF INCARCERATION, TORTURE AND EVENTUAL FREEDOM.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

WHO IS MOHAMMED SALAHI?

HE GREW UP IN -- HE WAS THE SON OF AF OF A CAMEL HERDER.

FAMILY DEVOTED EVERYTHING TO PUSHING THROUGH STUDIES.

HE GREW UP IN A CONTEXT THAT IN WEST AFRICA, IN 1980s, HE WAS -- IT'S AN ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.

HE AND HIS YOUNGER COUSIN WOULD WATCH THESE VIDEOTAPES COMING BACK FROM AFGHANISTAN OF THE AFGHAN JIHAD.

THEY BECAME SMITTEN WITH THIS NARRATIVE OF FIGHTING AGAINST A SUPERPOWER IN DEFENSE OF MUSLIM.

GROUPS THAT WERE BACKED BY THE CIA AT THE TIME AGAINST SOVIET EXPANSION INTO AFGHANISTAN.

IN 1991, WHEN HE WAS 20 YEARS OLD, HE SET OFF FOR AFGHANISTAN TO JOIN THE JIHAD.

HE JOINED AL QAEDA AND PLEDGED ALLEGIANCE.

HE REALIZED IT WAS SOMETHING HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE A PART OF.

THE MOMENT OF GOVERNMENT FELL, THE CONFLICT TOOK ON DIFFERENT OVERTONES.

ISLAMIST GRUOUPS VYING FOR POWE.

HE LEFT.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO LEAVE?

THAT BECAME THE QUESTION THAT HA HAUNTED HIS LIFE.

HISYOUNGER COUSIN BECAME CLOSE TO BIN LADEN.

HE BECAME AN ADVISER TO BIN LADEN.

HE WAS ON THE COUNCIL.

WHEN SALAHI LEAVES AL QAEDA.

HE DOESN'T CONSIDER AFFILIATION.

HE IS OPERATING IN THE ISLAMIST CIRCLES IN EUROPE.

HE IS PREACHING IN MOSQUES.

FROM TIME TO TIME, PEOPLE WHO ARE CONNECTED TO OTHER JIHADI GROUPS SLOW UP IN HIS ORBIT IN WAYS HE CAN'T CONTROL AND HE DOESN'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT.

A JUDGE WHO LATER REVIEWED ALL THE CLASSIFIED EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM ASSESSED THAT ESSENTIALLY WHAT SALAHI DID FOR THE REST OF THE '90s WAS DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM AL QAEDA BUT IN WAYS THAT DIDN'T MAKE HIMSELF AN ENEMY OF THE GROUP.

TO FULLY DISAVOW IT COULD PUT HIMSELF IN SERIOUS DANGER.

GIVEN HIS TIES TO HIS COUSIN, WHO BECAME AN AL QAEDA LEADER AND WHO KNEW ABOUT 9/11 BEFORE IT HAPPENED, HE CAUGHT THE ATTENTION OF THE UNITED STATES IN 1998 AFTER HE WAS CALLED AND WIRED HIM MONEY.

IT LOOKS LIKE AL QAEDA LEADERSHIP IS SENDING MONEY TO CARRY OUT SOME SORT OF OPERATION.

SALAHI TRANSFERS THE MONEY TO PEOPLE TRAVELING TO WEST AFTRIC.

DID HE UNDERSTAND?

HE DID.

IT WASN'T FOR AL QAEDA.

THE TRANSFER WAS THERE WAS NO WAY OF TRANSFERRING MONEY FROM SUDAN WHERE HE WAS LIVING TO BACK HOME.

HE SENT IT TO GERMANY AND TRANSFERRED IT TO HIS PARENTS.

IT APPEARS -- ALL THE DATA POINTS TO A NEFARIOUS PLOT.

I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST REVEALING PARTS OF THE ARTICLE, IN THE WAY IN WHICH FBI AND CIA IS WORKING WITH OTHER AGENCIES IN JORDAN.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN IN RESEARCHING ABOUT THE WAY THAT THOSE ORGANIZATIONS WORK IN CONCERT?

IN HIS CASE, IT WAS A PARTICULAR EXAMPLE.

THE FORMER HEAD OF INTELLIGENCE, HE WAS -- HE HAD BEEN INVESTIGATING SALAHI AND HIS GROUP FOR YEARS.

HE INTEARAERROGATED HIM AND HELM FOR MONTHS BEFORE HE WAS SENT TO GAUN GUANTANAMO.

HE WAS GUILTY OF NOTHING.

I HAD DONE ALL MY INVESTIGATION.

IT WAS AFTER 9/11.

THE AMERICANS HAD QUESTIONS.

I KNOW THAT SALAHI IS IN THESE CIRCLES.

HE KNOWS A LOT, EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING.

HE IS INTELLIGENT AND WELL INFORMED THAT HE COULD BE OF USE TO AN INTELLIGENCE OPERATION.

I THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE QUESTIONS FOR HIM AND SEND HIM BACK HERE.

HE THOUGHT HE WOULD BE GONE FOR TWO DAYS.

HE WAS GONE FOR 17 YEARS.

THEY ASSESS HE IS NOT A RISK.

YES.

THE CIA DOESN'T BELIEVE HE IS A RISK.

HE GETS HANDED OVER TO U.S.

MILITARY.

WHAT DOES HE DO THAT MAKES THE U.S. MILITARY BELIEVE THAT HE IS WORTHY OF BEING TRANSFERRED TO GUANTANAMO?

THE QUESTION OF WHO IS WORTHY TO BE TRANSFERRED IS A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

SALAHI WAS SOMEONE WHO JOINED AL QA QAEDA.

HE WAS A HIGHLY INTELLIGENCE ELECTRICAL ENGINEER WHO SPOKE FOUR LANGUAGES AND LIVED ON MULTIPLE CONTINENTS.

HE WASN'T A VILLAGER WHO GOT PICKED UP BY MISTAKE.

HE WAS RENDITIONED IN A PURPOSEFUL INVESTIGATION.

WHEN GETS SENT, IT'S BECAUSE THEY THINK HE IS THE HIGHEST VALUE DETAINEE.

THEY THINK THIS IS A GUY WHO HAS INCREDIBLE KNOWLEDGE OF AL QAEDA'S INNER WORKINGS.

HE IS THE LEADER OF AN AL QAEDA CELL IN GERMANY.

HE WAS SOMEHOW LINKED TO THIS PLOT TO BLOW UP LAX.

HE IS TAKING INSTRUCTIONS FROM BIN LADEN'S KEY OPERATIVE.

THEY HAVE CONCLUDED ALL OF THESE THINGS.

SO THEY ARE TRYING DESPERATELY TO PREVENT FUTURE ATTACKS.

THIS TERROR RUNNING THROUGH WASHINGTON THAT AL QAEDA MIGHT PULL OFF ANOTHER ATTACK AS THEY HAD FOR 9/11 RESULTS IN PEOPLE REALLY MAKING POOR JUDGMENT CALLS AND ULTIMATELY DECIDING THAT THE ONLY WAY TO EXTRACT THE INTELLIGENCE OUT OF HIM AND OTHERS IS THROUGH EXTREMELY ABUSIVE TORTURE TECHNIQUES.

SALAHI WAS TORTURED DURING HIS TIME.

WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE HE WRITES ABOUT IT IN HIS BOOK AND ALSO BECAUSE HE IS ONE OF THE FEW PRISONERS THAT THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT ADMITS TO TORTURING.

WHAT ARE THE MECHANISMS THAT WERE USED?

THE INTERROGATION PROGRAM WAS INSPIRED BY A PSYCHOLOGY STUDENT'S Ph.D. WORK IN THE 1960s.

THE TASK IN THE EXPERIMENT WAS TO ELECTROCUTE DOGS IN VARIOUS FORMS OF RESTRAINT.

IN DOING SO, SEE IF YOU COULD INDUCE WHAT HE CALLED LEARNED HELPLESSNESS WHERE AFTER YOU REMOVE THE RESTRAINT, THEY DONE EVEN TRY TO ESCAPE AS YOU CONTINUE TO ABUSE THEM.

JAMES MITCHELL, A CIA CONTRACT PSYCHOLOGIST, TOOK THIS ASVISIN TORTURE PROGRAM.

IT WAS USED IN GAUN UANTANAMO A ELSEWHERE.

SOME OF THE TECHNIQUES APPROVED BY THE MILITARY COMMAND WERE FOR WATER BOARDING, WHICH IS FORCED DROWNING.

THEY REFER TO A STAGED KIDNAPPING WHERE HE WOULD BE TAKEN OUT TO SEA AND WHERE HE WAS FORCE FED SEA WATER AND BEATEN UNTIL MEDICAL RECORDS SHOW SEVEN OR EIGHT OF HIS RIBS WERE BROKEN.

TO TRY TO DISORIENT HIM AND MAKE HIM NOT KNOW WHERE HE WAS WHEN THEY RETURNED HIM TO LAND AND PUT HIM IN ISOLATION.

THEY KEPT HIM IN A BLACK CELL FOR MONTHS.

THEY PUT HIM THROUGH 20-HOUR INTERR INTERROGATIONS, KEPT HIM SLEEP DEPRIVED.

UNDER THE CONDITIONS, SALAHI CONFESSED TO ALL KINDS OF THINGS, NONE OF WHICH WERE TRUE.

HE STARTED IMPLICATING OTHER PEOPLE IN HIS IMAGINARY PLOT.

TO JUST POINT TO HOW COMPLETELY UNRELIABLE THIS INFORMATION IS WHEN YOU BREAK A PERSON DOWN TO THIS POINT, HIS INTERROGATORS STARTED -- SENT AN E-MAIL AFTER SALAHI COMPLETELY BROKE DOWN TO A MILITARY PSYCHOLOGIST SAYING, SALAHI TOLD ME HE IS HEARING VOICES NOW.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE LITTLE EXTERNAL STIMULUS SUCH AS DAYLIGHT, HUMAN INTERACTION?

SEEMS A LITTLE CREEPY.

THE PSYCHOLOGIST IN QUESTION REPLIED, SENSORY DIP DEPRIVATION CAUSE HAD ALLUCINATIONS.

IN THE DARK, YOU CREATE THINGS OUT OF WHAT LITTLE YOU HAVE.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET RELIABLE INFORMATION AT THAT POINT.

WITH A SALAHI USEFUL?

ESSENTIALLY, NO.

HE WAS GIVING INFORMATION ON AL QAEDA COMMUNICATION, SATELLITE LINKS TO LAPTOPS.

HE KNOWS HOW THIS WORKS.

HE IS DESCRIBING ELABORATE NETWORKS IN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES AND GERMANY.

ALL OF THIS TURNED OUT TO BE COMPLETE [ BLEEP ]. THEY DIDN'T KNOW THIS AT THE TIME.

FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, THEY STARTED REDUCING -- THE TORTURE WOULD WIND DOWN.

FIRST BY JUST NO MORE HITTING, NO MORE -- STILL DAILY INTERROGATIONS.

IT WOULD BECOME MORE POLITE AND START TO GRADUALLY GIVE HIM A QURAN AND ALLOWING HIM TO PRAY.

HIS CONDITIONS IMPROVED DRAMATICALLY.

AT THIS POINT, A GUARD NAMED STEVE WOODS ARRIVED.

WOODS DOESN'T KNOW OF ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED BEFORE HIM.

HE JUST SEES -- HEARS A MAN WHO HAS LEARNED ENGLISH IN GUANTANAMO, WHO IS FRIENDLY AND FORTHCOMING AND WANTS TO BEFRIEND HIS GUARDS AND WHO IS DEVOUT AND QUIET AND TALKS WITH THIS PROVOCATIVE, INTELLIGENT HUMOR ABOUT THE WORLD BUT WON'T SAY WHY, FOR EXAMPLE, HE CAN'T SLEEP AT NIGHT.

WOODS COMES INTO HIS CELL AND FINDS SALAHI -- HE HEARS THE SILENCE OF A CHILD HAVING A NIGHTMARE.

HE FINDS HIS PRISONER CONVULSING IN THE NIGHT, LOOKING MORE PATHETIC AND BROKEN THAN ANY ADULT HE HAS SEEN.

HOW FAR INTO SALAHI'S TIME AT GAUN GUANTANAMO DID STEVE WOOD ENTER?

A LITTLE AFTER TWO YEARS.

ABOUT FIVE OR SIX MONTHS AFTER THE MOST BRUTAL TORTURE HAD STOPPED.

WOODS SEES THE INTERROGATIONS AS THE YOUNG BLONDE INTERROGATOR WANTS TO TALK TO HIM AND EVERYTHING IS POLITE.

THEY SHOW HIM VIDEOS FROM THE GE JIHAD BATTLEFIELD.

SALAHI IS TELLING THEM EVERYTHING HE CAN.

YEAH, THIS IS THAT GUY, THAT LOCATION.

GIVING THEM WHATEVER THEY WANT.

AFTER THEY LEAVE, SALAHI BREAKS DOWN AND STARTS TO CONFESS TO WOOD, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE SHOWING ME.

THEY WERE TAKEN WHILE I WAS IN CUSTODY.

WHO IS STEVE WOOD?

STEVE WOOD GREW UP IN OREGON IN A LUMBER TOWN.

HIS FATHER DIED IN A PLANE CRASH WHEN HE WAS VERY YOUNG.

HIS MOTHER DATE D A STRING OF ALCOHOLICS AND ADDICTS.

HE GREW UP NOT HAVING ANY PARTICULAR ANIMOSITY.

HE JOINS THE OREGON NATIONAL GUARD SHORTLY AFTER HIGH SCHOOL.

THEN 9/11 HAPPENS.

HE BECOMES INCREDIBLY PATRIOTIC.

HE BECOMES VERY EXCITED WHEN A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER HE GETS TOLD YOU WILL DEPLOY TO GUANTANAMO BAY.

YOU WILL DEFEND THE UNITED STATES.

A COUPLE OF WEEKS ON THE REGULAR CELL BLOCKS.

HE GETS CALLED IN AND HE IS TOLD, YOU WILL LOOK AFTER A GUY WHO IS KNOWN BY HIS DETAINEE NUMBER ONLY, 760.

HE IS IN A SPECIAL BLACK SITE CALLED ECHO SPECIAL.

IT WAS BUILT FOR HIM.

COMPLETELY BLACK INSIDE, NO WINDOWS, NO EXPOSURE TO LIGHT.

INITIALLY, THERE'S AN AN EYE BOLT TO SHOACKLE HIM TO THE FLOOR.

IF HE MANAGES TO SNEAK OUT, HE CAN'T HARM YOU OR YOUR FAMILY.

HE GOES IN THINKING I'M PART OF A NATIONAL SECURITY OPERATION.

BY THE END OF HIS DEPLOYMENT, HE IS CONVINCED ENTIRELY THAT WHAT HE IS ACTUALLY GUARDING IS NOT -- HE IS NOT GUARDING AMERICA FROM A HIGH VALUE TERRORIST.

HE IS GUARDING THE AMERICAN PUBLIC FROM ONE OF THE MILITARY'S DIRTIEST SECRETS, WHICH IS THAT ITS HIGHEST VALUE DETAINEE IS BEING KEPT IN ISOLATION BECAUSE OF THE HELL THAT HAD BEEN INFLICTED UPON HIM.

YOU CAN'T LET HIM GO BECAUSE IT WOULD REVEAL EVERYTHING ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE DONE, WHICH IS NOT JUST EMBARRASSING BUT HAS BEEN CALLED IN QUESTION.

HOW DOES HE BECOME CONVINCED?

THE IMAGE OF THE TERRORIST IN THE CLASSIFIED DOSSIER DOESN'T MATCH THE MAN HE IS TALKING TO EVERY SINGLE DAY.

BECAUSE HE IS IN ECHO SPECIAL, THE GUARD FORCE LIVES IN THERE . WOOD IS THERE 12 HOURS ON, 12 HOURS OFF.

HE IS INTERACTING WITH HIM CONSTANTLY.

AT THE SAME TIME, SPRING OF 2004.

THE ASCANDAL IS BREAKING.

NOTHING FITS HIS WORLD VIEW.

OUTSIDE THE CELL, HIS WHOLE WORLD VIEW IS BEING UNDERMINED BY THE NEWS CYCLE.

HE STARTS TO WONDER, IS THE EVIDENCE AGAINST SALAHI AS FLIMSY AS IT WAS FOR THE INVASION OF IRAQ?

IS THE REASON THAT SALAHI IS CRYING AND SOBBING AND BROKEN AT NIGHT -- IS IT LINKED TO THE PHOTOS HE HAS SEEN OF PRISONERS BEING TORTURED AND SEXUALLY HUMILIATED AND HOOKED UP TO ELECTRICAL WIRES?

IN TIME, HE STARTS READING ABOUT GUANTANAMO BAY.

HE STARTS READING ABOUT WORLD AFFAIRS, BECAUSE SALAHI IS TELLING HIM, YOU THINK THAT AMERICA'S FOREIGN POLICY EFFORTS IN THE WORLD HAVE BEEN THE DELIVERY OF FREEDOM TO OPPRESSED PEOPLE.

LOOK INTO THE 1953 OPERATION TO ORCHESTRATE A COUP IN IRAN AND WHERE THAT LED.

HE NEVER HEARD THIS STUFF.

HE GREW UP VERY MUCH BELIEVING WHAT HE CAME TO SEE AS A KIND OF -- A MYTH OF AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM AND SUPERIORITY.

THAT STARTS TO COLLAPSE.

AS THE WALL BETWEEN PRISON AND GUARD COLLAPSES.

TO THAT POINT, THERE'S A MOMENT IN YOUR STORY WHERE WOOD SHARES A PHOTO OF HIS DAUGHTER WITH SALAHI, WHICH IS BREAKING PROTOCOL TO SAY, I'M DOING THIS AS AN ACT OF INTIMACY TO SHOW WE ARE FRIENDS.

HIS FIRST BIG TRANSFORMATION WAS THAT HE STARTED TO FEEL GUILTY FOR LIKING SOMEONE WHO HE THOUGHT WAS A TERRORIST INITIALLY.

THEN HE THINKS, NO, THIS GUY IS ACTUALLY A GOOD PERSON.

HE IS MY FRIEND.

THE ONLY WAY TO ACTUALLY SHOW THAT I TRUST HIM IS TO BREAK POE TOE PROTOCOL AND SAY, I TRUST YOU.

THIS IS MY DAUGHTER.

SHE'S EVERYTHING TO ME.

THAT'S WHERE THINGS TRANSFORMED.

HE UNDERGOES THIS CONVERSION TO ISLAM.

HE KEEPS A BIG SECRET.

WOODS CONVERTED IN 2006, ABOUT A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT GUANTANAMO.

HE WAS SEARCHING FOR SOME SORT OF ANCHOR.

LIST INTERACTIONS WITH SALAHI HAD SO UNMOORED HIM AND HIS TIME HAD SO SHAKEN HIS BELIEF IN EVERYTHING ELSE.

HE LIVED IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE IN A TIME WHEN THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF XENOPHOBIA IN POLITICAL SCREEN SCENES AND IN HIS FAMILY.

HE KEPT IT A SECRET FOR TEN YEARS.

WALK US THROUGH SALAHI'S RELEASE.

WHILE WOOD WAS THERE, A PROSECUTOR WAS ASSIGNED SALAHI'S CASE.

ULTIMATELY DROPPED IT ENTIRELY.

EVERYTHING THAT SALAHI CONFESSED TO HAD BEEN A CONFESSION THROUGH TORTURE AND IT WAS NOT TRUE.

THE CASE IS DROPPED.

F NO ONE PURSUES THE CRIMINAL CASE.

PRISONERS CAN BE HELD INDEFINITELY.

HE SUES.

THE JUDGE REFUSED SALAHI'S CASE THERE 2009 AND 2010.

HE ORDERED SALAHI RELEASED.

THE GOVERNMENT APPEALS.

HIS DIARY IS RELEASED IN 2015.

PUBLISHED AND SOON AFTERWARD, THE ADMINISTRATION RELENTS AND RELEASES HIM FROM GAUUANTANAMO BAY.

YOU HAVE WOOD IN THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT HAPPENS TO EACH OF THEM?

IN OCTOBER 2016, WOOD GETS A PHONE CALL WHILE HE IS IN A SAFEWAY IN PORTLAND.

ON THE OTHER END OF THE LINE IS SALAHI.

HE HASN'T HEARD HIS VOICE IN 11 YEARS.

THEY CATCH UP ON THEIR LIVES SINCE THEN.

SALAHI EXPLAINS HIS MOTHER HAS DIED.

ONE OF HIS BROTHERS DIED.

THERE'S NEW NIECES AND NEPHEWS WHO HAVE BEEN ATTENDING SCHOOL ON THE PROCEEDS OF HIS BOOK.

WOOD CATCHES HIM UP ON HIS OWN LIFE, HOW HE CONVERTED TO ISLAM, HOW HIS CONCEPTION OF THE WAR ON TERROR COLLAPSES, HOW HE WAS WORKING IN CONSTRUCTION AND HAD FOUND SOLACE IN THE WORK BECAUSE IT WAS THE KIND OF JOB WHERE UNLIKE IN GUANTANAMO, THERE WAS A MORAL CLARITY.

HE WAS LEAVING THINGS BETTER THAN WHEN HE ARRIVED.

WHEN THE DIARY CAME OUT, IT WAS FULL OF REDACTIONS.

NOW THAT HE IS FREE, THE PUBLISHER RESTORED THE BOOK AND IN IT SALAHI WRITES AN INVITATION TO ANY OF HIS GUARDS SAYING, I FORGIVE YOU FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.

YOU ARE WELCOME IN MY HOME.

THIS IS AN INVITATION.

WOOD WENT.

I ACCOMPANIED HIM IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR.

HE SET OFF FROM PORTLAND, TOOK THREE DAYS TO GET THERE THROUGH NEW YORK AND CAN SABLANCACASABL.

SPENT FOUR DAYS ON ALL THAT THEY MISSED.

A VERY SPECIFIC STORY BUT ABOUT A LARGER QUESTION.

WHAT DO THEY TELL YOU ABOUT THE STATE OF THE WAR ON TERROR?

IT CARRIES A LONG SHADOW, NOT JUST FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE RECEIVING END OF IT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOOD SAID AND OTHERS HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT.

THEY ARE HAUNTED BY WHAT THEY HAD TO DO.

THEY ARE HAUNTED BY THE FACT THAT NOT JUST THE PRACTITIONERS AS TORTURE, BUT THE PEOPLE WATCHING OR PEMOPLE WHO ARRIVED AFTER IT HAPPENED BUT HAD BEEN A PART OF THE MYTH OF GUANTANAMO, BEING THIS PLACE.

IT'S A FTRUTH THAT PEOPLE ON TH RECEIVING END OF CLASSIFIED SECURITY OPERATIONS KNOW ABOUT THE STATE OF A SECRET AMERICAN NATIONAL SECURITY LAW AND PRACTICES YEARS BEFORE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC DOES.

THAT'S WHY PEOPLE LIKE SALAHI CAN'T GET LET GO.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

About This Episode EXPAND

Christiane Amanpour speaks with broadcaster Waleed Aly about his reaction to the Christchurch terrorist attack; and playwright Heidi Schreck about her play “What the Constitution Means to Me.” Alicia Menendez speaks with writer Ben Taub about his latest piece, “Guantánamo’s Darkest Secret.”

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