>>> A STARTLING FACT, ACCORDING

TO THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE

CONTROL AND PREVENTION, OVER 100

AMERICANS DIE EVERY DAY FROM

OPIOID OVERDOSES.

WHILE GOVERNOR CUOMO AND

PRESIDENT TRUMP ARE BOTH

INCREASING EFFORTS TO EASE THIS

CRISIS, THERE ARE ISSUES THAT

HAVE RARELY BEEN DISCUSSED, FOR

EXAMPLE, HOW EXACTLY DOES

GEOGRAPHY CONTRIBUTE TO NEW

YORK'S OPIOID EPIDEMIC?

AS PART OF OUR ONGOING SERIES

CHASING THE DREAM, POVERTY AND

OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA, JACK

FORD SPOKE WITH CAROL GRAHAM,

AUTHOR OF THE BROOKINGS

INSTITUTION STUDY TITLED THE

GEOGRAPHY OF DESPERATION IN

AMERICA.

JACK BEGAN THE CONVERSATION BY

ASKING MS. GRAHAM HOW SOCIAL

FACTORS LIKE INCOME AND RACE

PLAY A ROLE IN THIS NATIONAL

PROBLEM.

>> SO, OBVIOUSLY, FINDING THAT

POOR BLACKS ARE THE MOST

OPTIMISTIC GROUP AND POOR WHITES

WERE, YOU KNOW, IN RELATIVE

TERMS, DESPERATE WAS A SURPRISE.

THAT WAS BEFORE WE'D UNCOVERED

THE RISING MORTALITY RATES, THE

EXTENT OF THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC.

AND, IN FACT, THESE FINDINGS

HELPED ME START TO GET INTO THAT

EXPLORATION.

ABOUT THE TIME I FOUND THE

DESPERATION FINDINGS, THE CENTER

FOR DISEASE CONTROL DATA BECAME

PUBLIC AND A STUDY WAS PUBLISHED

SHOWING OUR MORTALITY RATES WERE

RISING DUE TO PREVENTABLE DEATHS

AMONG MIDDLE AGED UNEDUCATED OR

BLUE COLLAR WHITES.

WE'VE DONE A LOT MORE TO EXPLAIN

THAT.

THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT KINDS OF

EXPLANATIONS.

ONE IS SIMPLY ECONOMIC, IT'S THE

DECLINE OF THE WHITE BLUE COLLAR

WORKING CLASS, THE HOLLOWING OUT

OF MANUFACTURING AND MINING JOBS

IN THE HEARTLAND OF THE COUNTRY.

ALL OF THOSE MATCH WITH THE

DESPERATION AND MORTALITY

TRENDS.

THE OPIOID CRISIS FITS INTO

THAT.

BUT THE SECOND EXPLANATION,

WHICH IS A BIT HARDER TO, YOU

KNOW, FULLY UNDERSTAND, IS THAT

WE FIND MUCH HIGHER LEVELS OF

RESILIENCE, RESILIENCE TO

NEGATIVE SHOTS AMONG POOR

MINORITIES, BLACKS AND

HISPANICS.

>> WHY IS THAT?

YOU SAID IN SOME WAYS IT SEEMS

COUNTERINTUITIVE, CERTAINLY

SURPRISING AS YOU MENTIONED, SO

WHY DO YOU THINK YOU'RE SEEING,

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE LEVEL OF

OPTIMISM BEING HIGHER FOR THE

POOR MINORITIES THAN IT IS FOR

POOR WHITES?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, JUST IN

THE DATA IT'S CLEAR THAT POOR

MINORITIES ARE MUCH LESS LIKELY

TO REPORT DEPRESSION OR COMMIT

SUICIDE IN THE FACE OF A

NEGATIVE SHOCK THAN OUR POOR

WHITES.

I THINK THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE

HISTORY OF ADVERSITY.

MINORITIES HAVE GENERALLY HAD TO

FACE A LOT OF ADVERSITY EITHER

OVER THEIR LIFETIMES OR THEIR

PARENTS HAVE.

AND SO PEOPLE DO BECOME MORE

RESILIENT TO ADVERSITY AND SHOCK

BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH

IT A LOT.

THAT'S PART OF THE EXPLANATION.

THE OTHER PART IS THAT POOR

WHITES ARE FALLING BEHIND IN

RELATIVE TERMS.

SO THE BLUE COLLAR WHITE WORKING

CLASS WAY OF LIVING, THE OZZIE

AND HARRIET HOUSEHOLD IN THE

HEARTLAND ARE REALLY ERODING

VERY QUICKLY.

IT USED TO BE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT

WHEN WE LOOKED AT MARRIAGE RATES

WE'D SAY, WELL, THE MARRIAGE

RATES ARE LOWER AMONG POOR

BLACKS THAN POOR WHITES.

NOW THE BIG GAP IN MARRIAGE

RATES IS REALLY ACROSS RICH AND

POOR.

POOR WHITES ARE AS LIKELY TO

LIVE IN SINGLE HEADED HOUSEHOLDS

AS ARE POOR BLACKS.

EDUCATION RATES, THE BIG GAPS IN

EDUCATION WERE BETWEEN BLACKS

AND WHITES, AND NOW THEY'RE

BETWEEN POOR AND RICH.

SO GRADUALLY HISPANICS AND

BLACKS HAVE BEEN MAKING

PROGRESS.

THERE'S STILL CHALLENGES, STILL

DISCRIMINATION, STILL ADVERSITY,

BUT THEY'VE BEEN MAKING

IMPORTANT PROGRESS.

>> THE ROLE THAT COMMUNITY CAN

PLAY IN TERMS OF OPTIMISM AND

COMPARING THE COMMUNITIES

SURROUNDING THE POOR BLACKS TO

THE COMMUNITIES SURROUNDING THE

POOR WHITES, WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> WELL, WE FIND THAT BOTH POOR

BLACKS AND POOR HIS PANICS HAVE

MUCH MORE COMMUNITY.

IT COULD BE FAMILY, IT COULD BE

CHURCHES, IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW,

FOR EXAMPLE, BLACKS IN MY DATA

ARE THE MOST -- THE RACIAL GROUP

MOST LIKELY TO SAY RELIGION IS

IMPORTANT IN THEIR LIFE.

I CONTROLLED FOR RELIGION IN

THESE STUDIES SO THEY'RE NOT

DRIVEN BY RELIGION, BUT THERE

ARE THINGS ABOUT -- THAT

PROVIDES A COMMUNITY AND THAT'S

MUCH HARDER TO MEASURE IN DATA,

BUT IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO

PEOPLE'S, YOU KNOW, RELIANCE.

THEY HAVE SOMEBODY TO RELY ON.

>> LAST QUESTION FOR YOU, YOU

TALKED ABOUT THE GEOGRAPHY OF

ALL OF THIS, AND YOU LOOKED AT

VARIOUS REGIONS, HOW ABOUT OUR

REGION HERE, THE NEW YORK CITY,

THE NEW YORK METROPOLITAN,

EXTENDING INTO NEW JERSEY,

SPECIFIC FINDINGS IN THIS AREA?

>> WELL, IT WAS A BIT OF A

SURPRISE BECAUSE IN GENERAL THE

GENERAL STORY IS THAT YOU GET

THE KIND OF MOST -- THE MOST

DESPERATION FOR POOR WHITES IN

THE HEARTLAND, AND MUCH MORE

OPTIMISM FOR POOR MINORITIES IN

THE SOUTHERN COAST AND THEN THE

EASTERN AND WESTERN COASTS.

AND THEN WE FIND THAT PLACES,

FOR EXAMPLE, FOR MINORITIES,

PLACES THAT ARE VERY

OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE, AND

THEY'RE VERY MUCH MINORITY, LIKE

SAY WASHINGTON STATE ALSO AREN'T

GREAT FOR POOR MINORITIES, THE

TREY-STATE AREA SURPRISED ME A

LITTLE BIT IN THAT WE DID GET

PRETTY MUCH EQUAL LEVELS OF

OPTIMISM FOR POOR BLACKS AND

POOR WHITES.

SLIGHTLY HIGHER FOR MINORITIES

STILL, BUT NOT AS BIG A GAP AS

IN OTHER PLACES.

AND THEN WE FOUND THAT

MINORITIES REPORTED A LOT OF

WORRY AND A LOT OF PAIN.

AND I'VE BEEN TRYING TO

UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER.

I THINK IT MAY HAVE TO DO WITH

THE PACE OF LIFE AND THE KINDS

OF JOBS THAT THEY MAY BE HOLDING

THAT CAN PROBABLY BE OFTEN

MANUAL LABOR, LONG HOURS, YOU

KNOW, LIVING IN A -- LIVING IN A

REGION THAT'S VIBRANT BUT ALSO

HAS VERY HIGH COST OF LIVING, A

LOT OF INEQUALITY.

YOU KNOW, SO THE -- YOU STAND

OUT IN HAVING RELATIVELY HIGH

LEVELS OF OPTIMISM FOR POOR

MINORITIES, BUT ALSO A LOT OF

WORRY, A LOT OF STRESS, A LOT OF

REPORTED PAIN.

>> WELL, IT IS A FASCINATING

STUDY, AND THANK YOU FOR ONCE

AGAIN COMING ON AND SHARING YOUR

THOUGHTS AND FINDINGS HERE.

YOU BE WELL.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.