>>> A COLLEGE EDUCATION HAS LONG

BEEN SEEN AS THE SHE IS R SUREST

TICKET TO THE MIDDLE CLASS.

PRESIDENT OBAMA USED PRECISELY

THOSE WORDS THREE YEARS AGO WHEN

PROMOTING A SERIES OF

INITIATIVES AIMED AT REDUCING

THE COST OF GOING TO COLLEGE TO

MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE FOR MORE

AMERICANS.

BUT IS A DREAM OF A COLLEGE

EDUCATION REALLY WORKING OUT FOR

MOST AMERICAN STUDENTS?

ACCORDING TO A NEW REPORT BY THE

MANHATTAN INSTITUTE, THE ANSWER

IS AN EMPHATIC NO, ACCORDING TO

THE REPORT TITLED HOW THE OTHER

HALF LEARNS LESS THAN ONE IN

FIVE AMERICAN STUDENTS MANAGED

TO TRAVEL SMOOTHLY FROM A HIGH

SCHOOL DIPLOMA TO A COLLEGE

DEGREE TO A CAREER.

THE REPORT CONCLUDES THAT MOST

STUDENTS ARE NOT WELL SERVED BY

THE HIGH SCHOOL TO COLLEGE

PIPELINE AND CALLS FOR A RADICAL

RETHINKING OF ITS PRIORITIES.

THIS SEGMENT IS PART OF OUR

CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON

POVERTY AND OPPORTUNITY IN

AMERICA.

AND JOINING US NOW IS THE AUTHOR

OF THAT REPORT, OREN CASS.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WHAT DID YOUR REPORT LOOK AT

AND WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> WE LOOKED AT THE DATA ON WHAT

HAPPENS TO STUDENTS AT EACH

STAGE OF THE PIPELINE AS THEY

MOVE THROUGH SCHOOL.

AND AT EACH STAGE IT ACTUALLY

LOOKS GOOD.

MOST STUDENTS GRADUATE HIGH

SCHOOL.

MOST OF THOSE STUDENTS GO TO

COLLEGE.

MOST COLLEGE STUDENTS GRADUATE.

BUT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY STEP BACK

AND LOOK AT THE WHOLE PICTURE

WHAT YOU FIND IS THAT BY THE END

THE VAST MAJORITY HAVE FALLEN BY

THE WAYSIDE.

SO EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE THIS

SYSTEM THAT'S REALLY EXCLUSIVELY

DESIGNED TO PREPARE STUDENTS FOR

COLLEGE AND PUSH THEM THROUGH,

REALLY THAT'S NOT SERVING MOST

STUDENTS.

ESPECIALLY FAILING THE STUDENTS

WHO NEED THE MOST HELP AND WHO

REALLY WE SHOULD BE WORKING

HARDEST TO SUPPORT IF WE WANT TO

HELP THEM GET ON THEIR FEET AND

START A LIFE.

>> IT'S NOT JUST THEM, IT'S THAT

80%, IF YOU INCLUDE EVERY ASPECT

OF THAT PIPELINE FROM HIGH

SCHOOL GRADUATION TO CAREER,

IT'S 80%.

SO WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?

>> WELL, THE ANSWER IS TO

RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING

TO SUCCEED IN DESIGNING A SYSTEM

WHERE EVERYONE GOES TO COLLEGE.

THAT'S NOT THE REALITY OF WHAT

STUDENTS ARE INTERESTED IN AND

WHAT THEIR APTITUDES ARE.

IF WE ACTUALLY WANT TO MEET

STUDENTS WHERE THEY ARE AND

SERVE THEM WELL AND PREPARE THEM

WE NEED TO DESIGN A SYSTEM FOR

THE PATHS THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY

ON.

SO THAT MEANS HAVING HIGH

SCHOOLS THAT, YES, PREPARE KIDS

FOR COLLEGE, IF THAT'S THE

DIRECTION THEY'RE HEADED, BUT

SPEND JUST AS MUCH TIME AND

EFFORT PREPARING OTHER KIDS TO

MOVE RIGHT INTO THE WORKFORCE,

AND TO DEVELOP THE SKILLS THEY

NEED TO DO JOBS THAT THEY CAN DO

WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE.

>> BUT THAT ASSUMES THAT KIDS

KNOW WHICH OF THESE TWO PATHS

THEY SHOULD GO ON.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS READING

YOUR REPORT, I WAS THINKING OF

MALCOLM X, HE WANTED TO BE A

LAWYER, BUT HIS COUNSELOR SAID

NO, NO, YOU'RE NOT A LAWYER,

YOU'RE GOING TO BE A CARPENTER,

HOW DO WE PREVENT, IF THIS

HAPPENS, THAT PEOPLE ARE PUSHED

IN ONE DIRECTION BECAUSE OF

WHERE THEY ARE RIGHT THERE, OR

BECAUSE OF THE CLASS, OR COLOR,

ET CETERA?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY

THE RIGHT CONCERN TO RAISE.

AND THERE ARE A FEW THINGS WE

CAN DO.

ONE IS WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT

IT'S THE STUDENT'S DECISION, AND

THE FAMILY'S DECISION.

SO THE SCHOOL CAN GIVE ADVICE.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE

WANT TO MAKE SURE FAMILIES ARE

MAKING CHOICES FOR THEIR KIDS.

SECOND THING WE CAN DO IS MAKE

SURE THAT THERE ARE ONRAMPS AND

OFF RAMPS IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.

SO JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU'RE

HEADED DOWN MAYBE A VOCATIONAL

TRACK, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN

NEVER SWITCH.

AND THE LAST THING I THINK IS

REALLY IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE,

THOUGH, IS TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE

HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS MIND-SET

THAT SOMEHOW BEING ON A COLLEGE

TRACK, THAT'S WHERE THE WINNERS

ARE, THAT'S THE TICKET TO

SUCCESS IN THE MIDDLE CLASS, IF

THAT'S NOT THE TRACK YOU'RE ON,

YOU'RE SOMEHOW A FAILURE.

FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL PREPARED

AND DEVELOP GOOD SKILLS IN HIGH

SCHOOLS THERE ARE PLENTY OF JOBS

FOR PEOPLE WITH HIGH SCHOOL

DEGREES THAT PAIL OUT BETTER

THAN A LOT OF JOBS FOR PEOPLE

WITH COLLEGE DEGREES.

WE HAVE TO TREAT THESE AS EQUAL

TRACKS THAT MEET THE NEEDS OF

STUDENTS WHO MIGHT WANT TO BE ON

THEM.

ONE TRACK FOR WINNERS AND YOU'RE

NOT ON THAT TRACK AND YOU'RE A

FAILURE.

>> QUICKLY DEFINE FOR US WHAT

THAT VOCATIONAL TRACK LOOKS

LIKE.

THOSE OF US OF A CERTAIN AGE

THINK ABOUT SHOP WHEN WE THINK

OF VOCATIONAL EDUCATION.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE

THAT MOST OF THE REST OF THE

DEVELOPED WORLD, CERTAINLY IN

EUROPE, DOES THIS.

MOST STUDENTS ARE ON WHAT WE

WOULD CALL A VOCATIONAL TRACK.

AND IT'S NOT SHOP.

IT'S INTENSIVE TECHNICAL

TRAINING, ALONGSIDE CLASSROOM

TRAINING, BUT THAT EMPHASIZES

NOT, YOU KNOW, NECESSARILY THE

ADVANCED MATH OR ENGLISH

LANGUAGE SKILLS THAT ARE

SUPPOSED TO PREPARE YOU FOR

COLLEGE, BUT INSTEAD EMPHASIZES

ACTUAL PRACTICAL WORKPLACE

SKILLS.

SO WHATEVER TYPE OF TRACK YOU'RE

ON, ACTUALLY THE TOP VOCATIONAL

TRACK RIGHT NOW IS HEALTH CARE.

IT'S LEARNING HOW TO DO THOSE

SORT OF MIDDLE SKILL DIAGNOSTIC

RELATED TASKS IN OUR HEALTH CARE

SYSTEM.

SO WHETHER YOU'RE DOING THAT,

WHETHER YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING

IN ADVANCED MANUFACTURING, IT'S

COMBINING CLASSROOM LEARNING AND

THEN ALSO GETTING PEOPLE INTO

THE WORKFORCE SOONER.

SO BY THE TIME YOU'RE 17 OR 18

YOU HAVE SOME OF YOUR TIME IN

YOUR CLASSROOM, BUT ALSO SOME OF

THE TIME WITH AN EMPLOYER

LEARNING ON THE JOB.

>> AS YOUR REPORT POINTS OUT, A

TRULY FUNCTIONING VOCATIONAL

TRACK IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE.

HOW DO YOU PAY FOR IT?

>> THE TRUTH IS IT'SICS PENSIVE,

BUT IT'S A LOT CHEAPER THAN

CHEJ.

ONE OF THE CRAZY THINGS WE DO IS

WE SAY IF YOU'RE GOING TO

COLLEGE, WE THROW BILLIONS AND

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT SPENDS ABOUT $70

BILLION A YEAR, SUBSIDIZING

COLLEGE, STATES SPEND ANOTHER

$80 BILLION A YEAR.

BY CONTRAST THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT SPENDS ABOUT $1

BILLION A YEAR ON VOCATIONAL

TRACKS.

SO YES, IT'S EXPENSIVE TO

PROVIDE GOOD VOCATIONAL

EDUCATION TO PEOPLE.

BUT IF WE RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S AN

ALTERNATIVE TO COLLEGE, THEY

CERTAINLY DESERVE JUST AS MUCH

SUPPORT, IF NOT MORE AS WHAT WE

PROVIDE TO THE COLLEGE -- SO

FRANKLY THE ANSWER IS TO MOVE

SOME OF THAT MONEY TO SAY LOOK,

FOLKS WHO ARE IN COLLEGE, WE

WISH THEM THE BEST, WE WANT TO

SUPPORT THEM IN DOING THAT,

TOWARD HIGHER EARNING AND THEY

SHOULD BE ACTUALLY FUNDING MORE

OF THAT THEMSELVES, EVEN IF IT

MEANS THEY HAVE TO PAY IT BACK

LATER IN LIFE, WE'RE GOING TO

TAKE MORE OF THE MONEY AND NOT

PUT IT JUST TO THAT COLLEGE

TRACK, BUT ACTUALLY PUT IT TO

SAYING THAT THE PEOPLE WHO

AREN'T HEADED TO COLLEGE DESERVE

AT LEAST AS MUCH SUPPORT, AND I

WOULD SAY MORE SUPPORT BECAUSE,

YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S

ECONOMY, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE

FALLING BEHIND.

THAT'S NOT WHERE WE'RE NOT

SERVING PEOPLE WELL.

>> SO, OREN, THIS IS A RADICAL

SHIFT IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM.

WHO IS ON BOARD WITH THIS?

WHAT FORCES, WHAT FACTORS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL MOST

OPPOSE IT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY

IS, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ON BOARD

WITH IT RHETORICALLY.

I THINK WE HEAR FROM POLITICIANS

LEFT AND RIGHT, AT THIS POINT,

WANTING TO DO MORE OF THIS KIND

OF EDUCATION, WANTING TO DO MORE

APPRENTICESHIPS.

ONE THING I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT

IS DONALD TRUMP TALKED ABOUT

MORE OF THIS IN HIS STATE OF THE

UNION AND THEN THE DEMOCRATIC

RESPONSE WAS ACTUALLY DELIVERED

FROM A VOCATIONAL SCHOOL.

SO THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK

EVERYONE IS COMMITTED TO IN

PRINCIPLE.

THE PROBLEM IS GOING FROM THE

PRINCIPLES TO ACTUALLY REALIZING

WHAT IT WOULD TAKE.

AND A LITTLE BIT TO YOUR POINT,

REALIZING THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE

GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE SOMETHING

UP.

SO THE PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE

OF THIS ARE THE FOLKS WHO LIKE

THE EXISTING SYSTEM MOST.

CERTAINLY THE HIGHER EDUCATION

LOBBY IS VERY HAPPY WITH THE

CURRENT ARRANGEMENT AND WOULD

RESIST THIS KIND OF SHIFT.

CERTAINLY SOME FOLKS IN TEACHERS

UNIONS WOULD HAVE ISSUE WITH IT

BECAUSE YOU'D BE TALKING ABOUT

FEWER TRADITIONAL TEACHERS, LESS

CLASSROOM TIME, AND MORE

INVESTMENT IN ALTERNATIVE TYPES

OF EDUCATION, BUT AT THE END OF

THE DAY IT'S GOING TO BE A

CULTURAL QUESTION FOR OUR

COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY

VOCATIONAL EDUCATION IS GREAT,

BUT IT'S ALWAYS FOR SOMEONE

ELSE'S KIDS.

AND WHAT WE HAVE TO REALIZE IS

THAT THOSE SOMEONE ELSE'S KIDS

ARE MOST KIDS AND THEY'RE

PROBABLY IN SOME CASES YOUR KIDS

TOO.

IF WE WANT TO BE SERVING

EVERYBODY WELL, WE REALLY HAVE

TO SHIFT THAT OBLIGATION AND

SAY, WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR THE

NON-COLLEGE PATHWAY NOT TO BE

SOMETHING FOR OTHER KIDS, BUT

SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE PROUD TO

HAVE YOUR OWN KIDS ON TO?

>> WELL, OREN, WE'LL HAVE TO END

IT THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US

TODAY.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.