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Bill Moyers
Hello and Goodbye!
I have been a long time supporter of the PBS and “Journal”. I was watching your round table discussion about the responsibility of the Journalist about asking the right question. During this discussion the Iraq war was discussed several times and only mentioning the American casualty of this illegal war. How about the demise of over millions of poor Iraqis? Do you think that, as a Journalist, you have the responsibility of reporting this crime? Or you are another one of those that media puppet. It is time for American to start reading history and start with Romans’ History if you get the point. American is not going to be destroyed by outside forces. We are doing a good job from within….
Goodbye to PBS.
Alex
Re: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2007/07/bill_moyers_essay_the_war_deba.html
We can not honestly appraise our political realities of the present by avoiding historical truths, and the resulting lessons, regarding the political realities of our past. Those amongst us that choose to rely on revisionist (information management)manipulations of historical fact, relinquish their seat at the table of honest and reasonable discussion, by so choosing. We can not hope to solve our problems by continuing to patronize intellectual charlatans, and the uninformed fools that choose to follow their lead. The very idea that said patronization is in some way mandated by some "strict constructionist" theory of the Constitutional right to free speech is sophomoric, and a product of the same shallow reasoning that encourages ideological revisionism in the first place.
Well, Bill and all, the pot is shaken and stirred... unlike Bond. Anyway, we have lost some of our battles in Iraq but, our war on terror with our own hate and destruction may never end because it is here within us until we get a grip on ourselves and with the help of God find the peace we need to live with in a positive, proficiently run, and productive nation and world. I don't believe it's a win/lose answer to the war in Iraq or on terrorism. The element of war was changed for us at 9/11 and so must be our strategies. We must work smart to find a better sense of order taking to heart the beautiful, peace loving people we are and surface in freedom and democracy.
Moyers' version of balance: Find a conservative in favor impeachment and a liberal of impeachment. Ummm...no, Bill. You're supposed to find a person in favor of impeachment and a person who isn't, and then you debate! Duh!
President Bush will not be impeached. He will not be arrested. He will not be assassinated, which has actually been joked about on Air America. You hate-spewing will lead you nowhere, libbies.
all nations conditioned by people misrepresenting God, hurling rocks ,planting land mines,no private wars for the ambitious warrior. Life moves on. When God fails the people they will always come up with the most violent solutions
Pat Dazis, your sister is right to be concerned about your mental health. Your current thinking just doesn't make sense.
You write that you want leaders who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative; and then you write that you want Republicans? If you can't see the oxymoron, you are thoroughly detached from reality. Listen to your sister; she is only trying to help you rejoin the "reality-based community."
On social issues, Republicans are notoriously illiberal. They are constantly trying to use the power of government to impose their own ideas about morality onto everyone else's private life.
On matters of fiscal policy, Republicans are notoriously unconservative. They borrow incredible quantities of money, and never repay it, burying America's future under mountains of crippling debt.
The Reagan and Bush administrations have borrowed trillions of dollars, first from Arabs and now from Communists. Don't you understand the unlimited danger of this insane borrowing? When a nation borrows more than it can ever repay, it eventually loses its sovereignty. If we continue any longer under the unconservative leadership of these big-spending Republicans, very soon the lending nations will be able to use our outstanding debt to dictate policy to us.
The Arabs and Communists and other lenders, who hold the Reagan and Bush IOUs, will be able to override the will of our voters and of our elected officials, at the federal level, and therefore also at the state and local levels. Did you see Mr. Moyers' show about what happened to the residents of a city in Bolivia, when massive public debt allowed a foreign corporation to take control of their municipal water system? If we don't want that to happen here, we need to get rid of these big-spending Republicans immediately, and start paying off the debt that they borrowed in our name.
Mr. Fein conveys with impelling passion the need to protect the very constitutional principles which we now defend in Iraq as a governing ideal; perhaps democracy is more in need of attention here at home than elsewhere.
Mr. Nichols equably defuses what has traditionally been a lethal topic with scholarship and reason; the option of impeachment has never before seemed so accessible to me.
Or so necessary. As our chief executive’s privileges expand under pressure of congressional inquiry, the diminution of our liberties continues without much call for accountability.
Meanwhile, from Capitol Hill and the press to my own circle of friends and acquaintances, I see a lot of shoulder-shrugging and hear a lot of, “Yes, but—why stir things up now…Bush is on his way out…there are more important issues to deal with at the moment.”
In those instances, I am woefully unable to relay Fein’s urgency or Nichols’ assurance—they are a brilliant duo—but in regard to impeachment and civil liberties and whether or not this is the time or George W.’s is the administration, I am reminded of Rabbi Hillel’s admonition: If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?
Thank you Bill. Thank you for raising the bar of journalism in America. Thank you for speaking truth to power. Thank you for cutting through partisan politics to speak to the issues that really matter to Americans. But thank you most of all for your personal and professional integrity. You are a beacon to all aspiring journalists.
After only 4 months of listening to your program I have resolved to never miss an episode of the journal.
An illegal war based on lies; 9/11 on their watch after ignoring warnings; dismantling the constitution; secret energy meetings; outing a CIA agent; the contempt of Harriet Meyers; Alberto Gonzales and the fired attorneys poised to steal the next election; the last election stolen with fraudulent practices and caging lists; The Scooter Libby pardon; the Katrina debacle; lying about clean water and clear skies and the medicare drug plan cost; cronysim and billions of lost funds to the likes of Halliburton and KBR; the signing statements to undo legislation; the torture; the destruction of our reputation; putting us in more danger by fomenting hatred against us, and outsourcing the hunt for Bin Laden; spying on private citizens; lying about global warming; restricting the information dispersed by the Surgeon General; paying sham "reporters" to tout the "no child left behind" and other policies; continually claiming "executive priviliege" to avoid the freedom of information act; the list of felonies and treasonous acts seems endless.
We MUST impeach to take our country back, to stop the disintegration of our democracy, to show the world we are still a strong but fair nation and to see that justice and the constitution are served.
When I get pleas for money in the mail from the DCCC, or any federal-related candidacies, I write across them--NO- not until you push for impeachment! I hope you will all do the same, since "only money talks" to them these days.
I wanted to post this days ago. If it is not on point now I am sorry. Computer and online glitches.
Having listened the program about impeachment I was struck by the comments about why the democrats have done nothing to save the civil rights of the American people. The tromping on and the disregard of this revered document. The document that through out history all our soldiers have gone to war to protect.
I do not think cowardice is why the Democrats are not stopping this whittling away at the protections of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
My parents were democrats and my sister nearly passed out from the shock when she found out I had registered Republican. The very idea a Republican had stepped through her doorway was literally a shock to her. She has a mistaken idea that Republicans are all rich and not socially responsible. She knows me to be very not rich, and very willing to help anyone I can who needs it.
I am as aware and concerned over the erosion of our civil rights as anyone out there. Being a Republican I feel nothing is more important than keeping our Constitution and Bill or Rights safe. I agree that things are spinning way out of control. But make no mistake the Democrats have allowed the sundown portion on the original laws be removed.
After 9/11 everyone was on the Capitol steps basically shoulder to shoulder saying "we won't let them get away with this"! Now as things have morphed into something way beyond the intent of most lawmakers or the public, turning into something wrong that had never been envisioned. Yet Democrats remain silent for the most part.
I don't think in their wildest dreams did these people, who invented political correctness had ever thought these curtailments of our civil liberty would play right into their hands, and their agendas. I see a much more sinister reason for "the silence of the Democrats". The Democrats are the party of political correctness. They believe they are far better at deciding how to spend our money than anyone else. They envision a utopia if only they could get these "pesky people" to listen and act the way they do, or the way they think we should behave.They have never had a better chance to force "utopia" on the American people than they do now.
They know for instance that to leave Iraq now would be a death sentence for thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands with the fight that would ensue over control of the country. It would make anything that has happened so far pale by comparison. So they make noises about troop withdrawal in an attempt to assure constituents they know what the people want and are hard at work trying to make the will of the people come to pass. That they are "listening" to the people all the while throwing the heat on the president. If we have a Democratic president with a Democratic congress we are doomed. If you think our way of life is in danger now wait until those people have control with all the new powers.
Oh it will be for our "own good" of course, because we the people are after all uneducated on the things that are best for us. The socialistic leanings of the democrats are well known and well documented.
What we need in the white house is a socially liberal, fiscally conservative person. Someone who cares about people and realizes that we must meet needs, but is not willing to tax other people out of their homes creating more need. The idea that just because we have "something" doesn't mean we can afford endless tax increases. John Kennedy knew what the modern Democrats have forgotten. The more money in the private sector the better the economy functions. That is how he finally broke the recession in the early 60's. The Democrats are famous or imfamous for tax increases these days.
I fear the founding fathers are turning over in their graves.
I wanted to post this days ago. If it is not on point now I am sorry. Computer and online glitches.
Having listened the program about impeachment I was struck by the comments about why the democrats have done nothing to save the civil rights of the American people. The tromping on and the disregard of this revered document. The document that through out history all our soldiers have gone to war to protect.
I do not think cowardice is why the Democrats are not stopping this whittling away at the protections of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
My parents were democrats and my sister nearly passed out from the shock when she found out I had registered Republican. The very idea a Republican had stepped through her doorway was literally a shock to her. She has a mistaken idea that Republicans are all rich and not socially responsible. She knows me to be very not rich, and very willing to help anyone I can who needs it.
I am as aware and concerned over the erosion of our civil rights as anyone out there. Being a Republican I feel nothing is more important than keeping our Constitution and Bill or Rights safe. I agree that things are spinning way out of control. But make no mistake the Democrats have allowed the sundown portion on the original laws be removed.
After 9/11 everyone was on the Capitol steps basically shoulder to shoulder saying "we won't let them get away with this"! Now as things have morphed into something way beyond the intent of most lawmakers or the public, turning into something wrong that had never been envisioned. Yet Democrats remain silent for the most part.
I don't think in their wildest dreams did these people, who invented political correctness had ever thought these curtailments of our civil liberty would play right into their hands, and their agendas. I see a much more sinister reason for "the silence of the Democrats". The Democrats are the party of political correctness. They believe they are far better at deciding how to spend our money than anyone else. They envision a utopia if only they could get these "pesky people" to listen and act the way they do, or the way they think we should behave.They have never had a better chance to force "utopia" on the American people than they do now.
They know for instance that to leave Iraq now would be a death sentence for thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands with the fight that would ensue over control of the country. It would make anything that has happened so far pale by comparison. So they make noises about troop withdrawal in an attempt to assure constituents they know what the people want and are hard at work trying to make the will of the people come to pass. That they are "listening" to the people all the while throwing the heat on the president. If we have a Democratic president with a Democratic congress we are doomed. If you think our way of life is in danger now wait until those people have control with all the new powers.
Oh it will be for our "own good" of course, because we the people are after all uneducated on the things that are best for us. The socialistic leanings of the democrats are well known and well documented.
What we need in the white house is a socially liberal, fiscally conservative person. Someone who cares about people and realizes that we must meet needs, but is not willing to tax other people out of their homes creating more need. The idea that just because we have "something" doesn't mean we can afford endless tax increases. John Kennedy knew what the modern Democrats have forgotten. The more money in the private sector the better the economy functions. That is how he finally broke the recession in the early 60's. The Democrats are famous or imfamous for tax increases these days.
I fear the founding fathers are turning over in their graves.
Why wasn't Kucinich mentioned? He is pursuing Cheney's impeachment and these guys were repeatedly wondering why nobody was pursuing impeachment. How can such educated individuals be unaware of this fact? Also, Kucinich has consistently voted not to fund the war, another issue touched upon here without Kucinich getting a mention. Why are poor candidates so marginalized even by Bill Moyers Journal? The topic here wasn't the primaries but you can't argue that mentioning Kucinich wasn't relevant. There seems to be no hope in hell to be recognized without bending over to corporate powers and letting them stick those wads of cash in your pocket. How disheartning. By the way, I wrote one short, non-offensive post about this before and it was erased or was never even posted. This seems to have happened to a few other people, too.
I went into the wee hours, writing this thing...only to be erased...
Do you know this feeling???
It is horrible...
I will try again, because I really believe in what I am saying. I hope that I can be quick and concise.
I am so saddened to see that nobody appears to have a basic knowledge of history or the other cultures in our world. I am not tooting my own horn by saying this. But, I have had a continuing interest in this subject, and it provided me with some kind of basis from which to express what I feel that I know.
Why is America so hated?
This G.W. Bush only serves to exacerbate the problem that has already existed. To me, he is, absolutely, without a doubt, the WORST president that we ever had. I believe that he is a total ignoramus. I don't get it...Where did he come from??? Go away!!!
But, it didn't start with this sorry idiot, I must admit. Thankfully...I (we) have enough to be ashamed of, and it goes before America got involved.
It started with Britain, France, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, Germany...and let's not forget the most arrogant and racist of them all: Spain...who destroyed a legacy of the new world, forever. It will never be seen again. It is lost, forever. Forever is a
VERY long time.
We inherited a new legacy...the legacy of the European Colonialists, who, with some kind of rationale, decided to "conquer" and suppress the rest of the world (previousely known as the THIRD WORLD or DEVELOPING NATIONS). Why? For their own selfish gain.
They exploited, abused, raped and pillaged the "possessions" that they claimed until they had to relinquish control, either by rebellion of the indiginous people or by some kind of lop-sided treaty that left those former colonyies in eternal "debt" to their overseers.
I am absolutely ashamed to be a descendant of one of these European cultures on the basis of this. They were responsible for leaving behind an enduring HATRED that these people (our fellow human beings, I might add) have maintained for them and of us because of this total racist disregard for their cultures, their beliefs and their ways of life.
And, unfortunately, a MOSTLY IGNORANT America picked up in the mid to late 1940s where these European bigots left off...looking only through a GREEN looking glass:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Money, money, and more money!! Profits.
Nothing else has a value, or meaning to them.
The American authorities that we have allowed to occupy the positions of power have taken control. It is a new form of colonialism that has only stunted the existance and growth of that which humanity truly deserves to experience: the TRUE globalism of love and mutual respect, of harmony and cooperation, of peace and understanding among all peoples.
Go ahead, roll your eyes at this, and continue to accept the condition of struggle, violence, and destruction that slows the true development and growth of mankind.
Like Diogenes, I am merely seeking the honest...blog (yes, honesty can help, but...) I am seeking a forum in which others can converse with me about what I believe are the REAL issues of this whole catastrophe.
I have taken the time to read all of these posts. Sometimes, I feel that, like other blogs, people just like to vent their spleens without having an intelligent dialogue. Please, prove me wrong.
The American culture remains too arrogant and racist to me. And to make matters worse, it appears that they don't like "education". They don't want to take the time to know about the world around them.
This nation has been in existance for 131 years, and yet, we have an administration that hasn't even taken the time to hire translaters so that, at least, they can know what those "BARBARIANS" are talking about.
I mispelled a word in a previous post on :War decorates, celebrates ,confiscates elaborates,propagates tombstone gardens
War is the patented right handed over from all the Gods from every nation...a systemic conditioning scribed in the roots of all the nations...earth is three fourths water which will eventually give us all a good wash cycle,baptise us all undivisable according to the prexisting law of Earth
Every elected official who voted for the "Patriot Act" has broken their sworn oath to uphold the constitution and to protect the citizens it protects. All elected and appointed government officials are sworn to uphold the constitution. Judges and represenatives who have ignored the writ of law should be immediately removed from their positions and possibly crimilized for their level of breach of duty.
Every official who continues to support and protect these Criminals of the State
are accessories to this High Crime against our Constitutional Protections
We need far more then just impeachment. We are a war
The enemy is domestic
We the People
Will
Take it Back
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants and Patriots, it is it's natural manure." T. J. some time ago
"The Stench has become so high in Rank, that those who love this land will ensure it's fertilization." K.M. now
Can't answer for the past...
but out of the mouths, video
tapes, DVD, etc., of the Jihadists, the reasons are
rooted in the 7th century
and their religious worldview which requires that the world be brought to
submission to Allah by all means necessary...all of this was long before the British, Bush, Halliburton,
Exxon and so on. The west
will allow itself to be destroyed if we do not stop
our cultural self-loathing
and start placing blame and responsibility on those who
intentionally target innocent men, women and children for murder in order to attack the west and
gain a pass to paradise.The
truth of history is that the
Jihad preceded the Crusades.
Has anyone ever considered the real root causes of this entire dilemma?
Does anyone care?
Nobody in our American society likes to listen to it, or even think about it. Why? Because it goes against our basic ideals.
"America is great."
"America is the best."
"We have the most TV sets."
We have the most
money."
We have the most power and influence in the world."
We have the greatest comfort."
"All of the rest of them are envious of us."
"That is why they hate us. They are just jealous - envious of what we have, and what we enjoy, and what we have accomplished."
HOW MISTAKEN WE ARE!!!!!
HOW WRONG WE ARE!!!!!
There are people out there that have a culture and a way of life that they have lived for generations. They were successful because they survived, like the rest of us. And, all you do is belittle them, disregard them, disrespect them - as you have for years - compounded by your abuse and exploitation - you rape them of their natural resources and their talents - for your own monetary gain.
You draw their borders, as if you were some kind of authority, separating a people that belong together, putting people together that need to be separate and have their own identity.
This is the racism of the European Colonialists.
Who was that British bastard who decided that the borders between Pakistan and Afghanistan had to be drawn so that these people "could be properly divided and suppressed"?
Who was the true jackass that took it upon himself to draw the borders of Jordan, to make a trapezoidal panhandle plot of land that made a convenient road to India? For who? Just the white exploiters?
Who divided Africa in such a sadistic way in order to create so much horrible suffering among those people?
And, America picked up where its predecessors left off, in 1946/1947/1948
only with "cigarettes" and their other profitable contaminates.
This is not the America that I believe in.
I believe in the true America, the true democracy that does not enforce this believe upon others - at the point of a gun!!!
Democracy must be loved. Democracy must be cherished.
Democracy must be valued.
Those of reason must embrace it, freely, unconditionally, voluntarily. You cannot enforce it with the facades of purple fingers, or whatever contrivance that you choose to invent.
A people have to understand it, and this only comes naturally.
War decorates, celebrates ,confiscates elaborates,propagates tombstone gardens
War is the patented right handed over from all the Gods from every nation...a sytemic conditioning scribed in the roots of all the nations...earth is three fourths water which will eventually give us all a good wash cycle,baptise us all undivisable according to the prexisting law of Earth
Everyone assumes that an invasion of privacy is eminent. Let me tell everyone that your privacy at this time is over. I have had my privacy invaded for the last two years. Invaded in such a way that I have no one to report this too. I can't go anywhere without being subjected to the evils that I have had to live with. The time will come when more of you will feel and experience this gravest of injustice. Your home is no longer a sanctuary. These people have gone as far as to electronically monitor every aspect of my life. I hope someone with authority reads and investigates and find a solution for this abuse. I know my request is strange because it is the same authority that is abusing me that I have now ask for help.Hopeless!!!
I would like to ask another question about this impeachment issue as it pertains to the war, intelligence gathering, and the apparent violations of civil liberties of detainies, etc.
I agree with the argument that these represent serious infringements to the constitutional guarantees that have been established for our democracy. I believe that something should be done about this soon - very soon.
The possible causes for this abberation at this time in our history:
Has the nature of war and, in general, conflict between peoples and cultures, whether political, religious or otherwise, changed the landscape in which governments must function in order to address the issues and problems that arise?
Are we at a stage of "floundering" - groping - for new ways to meet these mutated challenges to our way of life?
For example, the nature of warfare, alone, has changed over the millenia, and we can see this steady evolution (or devolution, if you will) of how armed struggles are conducted. In centuries past, armies faced each other on the battlefield in brightly colored uniforms and regalia, hurling weapons at each other, point blank, to see who would kill each other first.
When our Minute Men in the revolution intelligently hid behind trees and rocks to protect themselves against British bullets, we were regarded as "cowardly" and going against the conventions of war by the British. But, it was the next natural step in the evolution of warfare. You fight to win, and you fight to survive.
Guerrilla warfare introduced the elimination of anything that would identify the opponent on the battlefield as the enemy, such as the uniform. This was the next step in the development of warfare that gave one side an advantage to win.
Now, the enemy could be a person in plain clothes - ANYWHERE - walking down the street in your own hometown, whether it be Baghdad or Brooklyn.
The new kind of warfare has erased borders.
We don't go to a "Viet Nam" to fight insurgents. They come to us and kill us in our back yards.
How does a nation that is concerned about its security address this problem?
It appears that our administration, however wrong they are in the process, is groping - rather stupidly, I must say, for a solution, disregarding the constitutional and legal parameters within which they must work.
They even went so far as to challenge the Geneva Convention.
It is anathema for civilized governments to go against civilized principles upon which these very civilized systems of governing mankind were founded.
Plato was right when he said, "Only the dead have seen the end of war." But a Geneva Convention can serve to reduce the level of suffering and to uplift humanity to a higher more civilized level than before - at least.
Our founding fathers, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay didn't just "banty about lofty ideals" to make themselves look good. They seriously thought and developed ideas that propelled mankind onto a higher level of government through The Federalist Papers.
Our Constitution must not be trampled upon by Presidents and Vice Presidents who appear to be trying to arrive at a set of solutions to new problems that the world is faced with.
If it is allowed to continue, I believe that we would be reducing ourselves to the level of our adversaries.
(This is a correction to my previous post). I cannot, nor can anyone else, possibly predict the long term implications of this administration. Our posterity will be able to see said consequences, but certain things will be lost to history and it is our duty to uncover these secrets and to ensure justice is served. We have, in my opinion, done so poorly at this point in mainstream media outlets. We know about Guantanamo, torture, the firing of federal prosecutors for political purposes, lies about WMDs and links to 9/11 (an event with its own questionable story), pay cuts and bad health care for troops, the spending of over 12 trillion dollars (a sum greater than all other 42 presidents combined), refering to the "war on terror" (a joke as well) as a crusade-the Christian word for holy war, a war on freedom and liberty itself through a war on drugs, a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, all non-Christians, and sinister mentalities of operation such as "father knows best," ('father' being the government from the word fatherland- a word Hitler was quite fond of and the translation of the Latin word "patrio" the root word of patriot something that Bushies often accuse people like me of not being so I guess they're right about that) and security first, civil liberties second, and an effort to expand corporate America by leaving workers and the middle class- the people that were always taxed in a time of crisis- behind. Those are a small scratch on the surface of what we KNOW, so imagine what we don't know! The president, VP, some of his cabinet members, Paul Wolfowitz, and others involved in this administration and its wrong doings should go to jail for corruption and treason among other things because at this point impeachment is insufficient.
I cannot, nor can anyone else, possibly predict the long term implications of this administration. Our posterity will be able to see said consequences, but certain things will be lost to history and it is our duty to uncover these secrets and to ensure justice is served. We have, in my opinion, done so poorly at this point in mainstream media outlets. We know about Guantanamo, torture, the firing of federal prosecutors for political purposes, lies about WMDs and links to 9/11 (an event with its own questionable story), pay cuts and bad health care for troops, the spending of over 12 trillion dollars (a sum greater than all other 42 presidents combined), refering to the "war on terror" (a joke as well) as a crusade-the Christian word for holy war, a war on freedom and liberty itself through a war on drugs, a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, all non-Christians, and sinister mentalities of operation such as "father knows best," ('father' being the government from the word fatherland- a word Hitler was quite fond of and the translation of the Latin word "patrio" the not being so I guess they're right about that) and security first, civil liberties second, and an effort to expand corporate America by leaving workers and the middle class- the people that were always taxed in a time of crisis- behind. Those are a small scratch on the surface of what we KNOW, so imagine what we don't know! The president, VP, some of his cabinet members, Paul Wolfowitz, and others involved in this administration and its wrong doings should go to jail for corruption and treason among other things because at this point impeachment is insufficient.
A message that I posted on this blog on July 20th has disappeared. There were no curse words or any other reason for it to disappear, and I agree with Linda that someone or something is sinister about the fact that a message that supports impeachment of Bush and Cheney is deleted somehow. PBS, are you allowing messages to be edited or deleted?
Impeachment, I can't Ford that after he took out the bite and was named the great mediator for the act.
The Haig is the place for Bushco, a true repentance in the eyes of the world for our 'Profit of Doom,' anything else will be carnival and have no effect in bring America back to its moral leadership.
So repent America we need a new Neuralburg. with Bush, Chainey, Rices Condolences, Ashcraft, Rumfilled, Seedy Gonzales Wolfa.....Et Al, as the star of that new reality show.
Think it impossible, so did a certain Mr Hilter who had the most powerful and brutal machine of mass destruction at the time.
Just watched "Meet the Press". If the public does not very vociferously INSIST on impeachment IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. It has to be done DIRECTLY if it is to happen. The normal processes will not work. Only the pressure of direct mass action will work. The democrats will NOT move without it. The republicans will resist even with mass action unless it is massive and overwhelming. The congress is in a catatonic state. Ambition, or, at least self preservation, is trumping [the abstraction of?] protection of the constitution.
Thank you for the 7-13 show on impeachment. It touched me deaply as it seems to have for many on this blog. I'd like to respond to this comment "Is impeachment really possible given these grim circumstances, and if not, what is the alternative to it, and how do we start working on that?"
I don't think impeachment is politically feasable at this time, and I would not blame the advocates for Bill Clinton's impeachment. A lot has happened since 2000 to compromise the indegrety of our legislative and judical branches of government; all in tiny steps. I'm particularly concerned with the effects of jurymandering (see a good New Yorker artical). As for what we can do, I take the long view -- elect a better president this time around and hope they get the chance to appoint new members of the Supreme Court, etc. What we have lost in the last decade is fundimental and will not be recovered easily or quickly.
The most important point I gathered from this episode was this: If we do not impeach Bush and Cheney NOW, we are allowing future presidents to do the same criminal activities. Illegal wire tapping, a war under false pretenses, disregard for our constitution, torture sites and disregard for human rights, outright lying to the American people. Bush/Cheney are setting a precedent that will be difficult to change later. It's not about Republican or Democrat, or liberal vs conservative, or even al qeida. It's about our country's foundation being dismantled.
PS. It baffles me that people still point to what Clinton did or did not do as an argument against critisism of Bush/Cheney or impeachment. If anything, it should be an argument FOR impeachment. If Clinton can be impeached for lying about fallatio, then surely, Bush/Cheney's actions are impeachable.
I cried twice, Diane, once when our local PBS affiliate took Bill Moyers off the air and again, when they replaced him with that dull twit, Tucker Carlson. 'Twas a black day, indeed...
uga6-
why aren't you fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Please go to Iraq with your President of war and fight the Jihadist (as you put it). They are not jihadist, they are simply fighting the occupation of their country.
I do not agree with most of the posts on this blog, but I will set that aside to appeal again to all readers
regardless of political affinitity to start thinking like Americans and start thinking in terms of defending our way of life against the very real threat of global Jihad against western values we hold gear such as freedom of speech, worship, etc. Whatever threat you may see in the Repblicans, Bush administration, conservatives, Christians, etc., pale in comparison to the brutality of the 7th century throwbacks who view killing westerners as a path to paradise. Their stated intent is the total submission of the west to their way of thinking, dressing, living, behaing, and worshiping. Liberals will not be tolerated under their regime. Why not take them at their word and defend our freedom?
Mr. Moyers, I was already in favor of impeachment for Bush and Cheyney before watching your excellent program on the subject. But your guests' argument for impeachment was so cogent and strong that I immediately wrote my Congresswoman and my Senator, asking them to begin impeachment
Ok what is the world coming to when the president of the United States and Cheney break laws and get away with it? Get real President Bush, breaks laws and makes his own up as he goes along. It is quite scary to imagine what he might be up to next. Imagine he chooses not to leave the whitehouse and become another Fidel Castro? Scary. Food for thought.
This morning, as I read the blog comments made in response to one of the best shows I have seen, the Bush administration has declared that the Justice Department will never be allowed to pursue contempt charges put forth by Congress against administration officials once the president has invoked executive privilege.
One cannot but deduce from this and other numerous such examples of hubris, arrogance, and calculated encrouchment on the rights provided under the Constitution, that the goal is to drain all effective power from the Legislative branch by forcing a Supreme Court case which has the potential to institutionalize and cement absolute power in the Excecutive Branch.
Since the Legislative branch is the representative branch, how will "we the people" plan to fight for our right to representation?
After viewing Mr. Moyer's program, I have decided that indeed, impeachment of both Mr. Cheney and Mr. Bush is required. Silent rage is no longer an option.
This has been my "gut feeling" for a long time now, yet it is so very chilling to read this article. I see the many steps over many years that went into creating this nightmarish scenario, but still cannot comprehend how on earth could it have come to this, here in the U.S.A. May God help us all.
If you were trying to scare me, it worked. Then I read this from Paul Craig Roberts: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Oldline_Republican_warns_somethings_in_works_0719.html
and started to realize how tenuous our control of our own government is when there are those who seem to be dedicated to subverting the constitution who should indeed be impeached. could the true terrorists be our own leaders? or am I just being made so paranoid and powerless that I'll just go shopping instead. No. God protect our Constitution, with our help.
I wonder if Bruce Fein acknowledges that his previous actions may have served to trivialize impeachment. Does he see a difference between lies, how ever often repeated, intended to hide embarrassing but not unconstitutional sexual activity between consenting adults, and lies intended to hide aggrandizement of personal power and subverting of the Constitution? Mr. Fein helped put the nation through that upheaval so recently, for so petty a reason. Now, when we desperately NEED a remedy for Presdential misdeeds against the nation and not just a spouse, we are understandably reluctant to undertake it all again. Any regrets for crying wolf, Mr. Fein?
The all-nighter by the Dem=
led Senate was so thrilling
and inspirational and must have struck fear in the hearts of Jihadists all over the world...the utter
courage...the incredible
hard work and sacrifice on
behalf of the American people (I get chill bumps
just remembering it!). A dose of well-deserved satire for the cluelessly
out of touch democrats and
republicans, too...news flash: probably half of
working Americans and all
of the military pull all-nighters regularly just to
take care of their families
and our freedom. Thankfully, the August recess is near and all those
hardworking congress people
can go home and raise more
money. At least America is
safe when they are away from
the senate and house chambers!
Bill, thank you for your past and present efforts to once again restore this country to a land of opportunity for all; a place where we can once again be a beacon of freedom to the rest of the world.
I have had the greatest respect for PBS over the last forty years and its roll of providing Americans with high quality programming that includes entertainment, education, and a window to their government without partisan filters.
However, the fact that you now have to privately fund your show to have the ability to speak your mind is very disturbing. The right wings intrusion into the board room of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting a few years ago seems to have had a lasting effect on the current PBS Management, or is it the extreme rights continued strangle hold on our country. I guess I would be more concerned about this situation if this affliction hadn’t also infected a majority of the main stream media in this country.
In your essay on the war debate, you mentioned the coverage that PBS provided in the 1970s during the Viet Nam War and Watergate hearings. I still remember those events and how they gave great clarity to both issues that the print media or commercial television of that time could hardly be expected to provide. Over thirty years later and we shouldn’t expect anything less from the Public Broadcasting Service or the commercial television networks of today that operate on our publicly owned bandwidth !
About an hour ago, I posted a message in this thread, was informed that it would appear in a few minutes, and then it didn't. I'm checking to see if it had been rejected for some reason (I can't imagine why your site would reject it, but I CAN imagine why our illegal national surveillance system would.)
Thanks for another very good, balanced show, Mr. Moyers. It's very interesting to read the comments in this thread from those who continue to stand behind their man in the White House.
Their message, as stated in a NYT editorial, is: "Be very afraid. And don't question the president."
Fortunately, more and more Americans are waking up to the reality of this message: "Be very afraid. And DO question the president." And in some cases, this message: "Be very afraid, BECAUSE OF the president."
This president's policies and actions continue to increase the threat posed by fundamentalist terrorism to our country, as well as to the rest of the modern world. The sooner we excise this threat from its position of power, the sooner we can finally get down to the business of effectively and intelligently dealing with the danger of religious extremism, and its access to WMDs.
Thank-you again. Your shows ARE balanced. What is NOT balanced in this country is the result of the lawbreaking, the distortion of the truth, and the outright lies of the b/c administration, in its quest to wield political power at the expense of our American values, our national security, and our international standing.
How about a show on the political and psychological motivations of Bush and Cheney (as separate people, not as a team)? Who are these guys? Where did they come from? What influenced their thinking?
The truth about their pasts, their upbringings, their life-changing experiences in and out of politics, paints very interesting and provocative pictures, pictures that are very different from the ones that got them enough votes in 2000 and in 2004 for Rove to mastermind the rest of the votes needed to get them elected.
Re: July 13 telecast: Bravo, Bravo, Bravo for you and youer guests stating so eloquently the case for impeachment of both George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. These two men have done more to destroy this country than El Quida could ever envision. The most important conclusion reached in the discussion, I believe, was in the danger of setting a precedent if impeachment is not sought. I heartily believe that the majority of the country would support and rally around Congress if it had the guts to vote on a Bill of Impeachment. Darlene Cox
Neil Johnson: Thank you for your eloquent discourse revealing the true soul of so many Republican Elitists. Either your satire is woefully flawed or your arrogance is an insult to the American Image.
Thank you Bill Moyers for giving Mr. Johnson and his ilk the opportunity to show themselves to the rest of the world. Democrats' tolerance for this churlish attitude is why it is so difficult to move our Society forward, but we are dedicated to Liberty and Justice FOR ALL.
Unfortunately, most politicians today, whether in national office or aspiring to be, still refuse to even comment on this issue. We have a presidential campaign where the press discusses how much money candidates have raised, as a testament to their popularity! While the impeachment process is long overdue and in fact treason is more apt, unless there is a true stateswoman or statesman in a position of power who recognizes the critical Constitutional setting we now find ourselves in, we, the people, are in trouble.
It is my opinion that unless Americans with influence, regardless of political party, step forward and demand that Pelosi and Congress address this issue, our nation as we know it today will move in an irreversible direction to oligarchy! How to reach the hearts and minds of these people is the question?
I would like to correct one statement in my remarks, and stand by another.
The correction: President Bush's father declared in 1992, not 2002, that the American Way of Life is not negotiable. To me this just showed his remarkable prescience. He knew long before 9/11 that we would soon have to take bold steps to preserve our way of life. Our way of life is based on constant economic growth, and energy and human capital are the life blood of our economy.
I stand by my statement that President George W. Bush was correct to launch a pre-emptive war. It was not a war of aggression, but of national interest. As the price of oil goes up because supply cannot meet demand, oil-rich countries must not be allowed to use oil revenues to build up their military or aquire weapons of mass destruction which could be used against us. If the sanctions had been lifted, Saddam Hussein would have done this. Now we have the problem of the Iranians, who are using their oil wealth to build a nuclear bomb. Furthermore, Venezuela has even threatened to not sell oil to us since they have enough customers elsewhere in the world, like China. And do I need to mention oil-wealthy but increasingly hostile Russia?
Once the Iraqi parliament passes their new oil law, we won't have to worry that they will use revenues from selling their natural resources to finance a military hostile to our interests. Instead, most of those revenues will go to our western multinational corporations and their shareholders. Isn't it better that our investors receive a substantial return on their investment to extract the oil from their ground instead of those countries getting money for the oil, which they could use to acquire WMDs?
I trust that Vice President Cheney's Energy Task Force (I don't need to know who they are) will make the right decision soon about how to secure our access to the energy resources of Iran, and stop their nuclear program at the same time. It's clear that we need a energy-rich backup country like Iran soon, since Iraq won't be pumping enough oil to meet our projected energy needs in the next decade and there's a chance we might lose Saudia Arabia.
In reply to the comment that we have "murdered hundreds of thousands" to "steal their oil," that is the fault of them for resisting the gift we tried to bring their country. They could have had the benefits of capitalism. Instead of fighting us, many Iraqis could have already been working for us in Exxon or Shell or BP's oil fields. By now some workers even could have saved enough money to become small investors themselves. The loss of life is regrettable, but they do not yet seem to know how to nurture an entrepreneurial class.
As for whether my children should enlist in the military to fight in Iraq or whatever country we annex next, I favor the solution of my wife who is a high school teacher. Discipline is such a problem in the schools now, that we need a military draft based on reverse merit. Young men and women who do not finish high school with a "C" average or better, should be drafted into military service. That would concentrate the minds of our young people and help us compete better against the increasingly better-educated hordes of China and India. (Have you ever read Tom Friedman's columns?)
In any case, my children are all "A" students and so would not need to serve. They will be of greater value to their President in a think tank than in an armored tank.
Impeachment is a distraction from the real issue of American access to global resources to preserve our way of life. This is not some fictional movie, but a real existential struggle. Think about that the next time you step in your car and drive or fly anywhere, or use your airco this summer. Thank you PBS and Bill Moyers for this space to have a frank discussion. I think that we as Americans can handle the truth.
It is tragic to hear, “Our Country is in a Constitutional Crises.. that will change the nature of our democracy”! It is tragic that our men and women , are placed in the middle east “amphitheater” - “the meat grinder,” to defend their hearts and souls “based on a policy that is fundamentally flawed”!
The Comptroller general “ ... is urging the people to wake up”. He states, “ the biggest ECONOMIC PERIL facing the nation is being ignored”! He states “the most serious threat to
the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Afghanistan or Pakistan but our own fiscal irresponsibility"! He states, “a tsunami of spending that could swamp our ship of state”!
There are “ 47 million Americans who walk a daily tightrope, with no safety net to break their fall
into medical and financial catastrophe”, add 78 million baby boomer who
would retired in the next 2 to 3 years with little or no insurance and “the ship is swamp”.
Lack to apply and enforced the Constitutional rules is a breach of duty!
The live lost of 3613 and others would not be in vein when the impeachment Constitutional remedies are implemented and to bring the troops home.
The “Destruction, Crises and Irresponsibility are result due to lack of self discipline”!
In the words of Will Durant--impeach them, hell, impale them.
Thank you for a great piece of journalism, Bill. I'm passing this along liberally.
For a refreshing voice in 2008, Dr. Ron Paul has consistently voted according to the Constitution. He voted against the war, against the so-called Patriot Act, against all tax hikes, does not participate in the pork barrel retirement plan for Congress, has never taken a junket, donates part of his Congressional pay to the national treasury. He would restore Constitutional rights, get rid of the Federal Reserve (private bankers, nothing "federal" about it), and the unconstitutional income tax. Check him out online, you won't hear about him in the supine (loved it) media.
WHAT A JOKE OF A SHOW. SO ONE SIDED THAT ANYONE WOULD SEE RIGHT THRU IT. BUT AS YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE MANY ON THE LEFT THAT DO NOT KNOW WHY WE ARE AT WAR. MAYBE THEY SHOULD SEE SOME OTHER SHOWS THEN ONES SO LEFT.
One thing that might help improve this conversation is to stop referring to the people in Washington as "our leadership". They are not our leadership. They are our representatives.
This is what I sent to my Rep. Von Hollen. "We the people..." starts with WE the people! Programs as wonderful as this "can lead us to water but can't make us drink.." that is our CHOICE.
Dear Representative Von Hollan,
I am writing you to immediately and without delay open a joint investigation into potential high crimes and misdemeanors against President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales and any and/or all appointees and hires. President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales, appointees and/or hires has repeatedly shown at all levels that they have not executed their oath of office to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic.
President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales, appointees and/or all government positions that require an oath to the Constitution has persistently chosen their allegiance to their ideology over their oath to preserve and protect the Constitution in spirit and/or legally. They have also chosen appointees and hires on the basis of this loyalty over choosing competency, qualifications and/or what is best for the common good of the United States and their willingness to violate and/or manipulation of their the oath of office.
President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales, appointees and/or hires have repeatedly demonstrated both contempt and /or the strong appearance of bending and/or violating and/or acting in a unprecedented amount of secrecy in all that they have done while in office. This has put the Constitution of the United States and its citizens in serious and dangerous peril.
I believe that our Constitution is strong enough to withstand the need for this unprecedented impeachment procedure and outcome. The wisdom of our forefathers has given us a Constitution that will survive a dictatorial evolution and/or interpretation. As long as all branches of government, the press and/or its citizenry fulfill their responsibilities that the Constitution guarantees to them to protect and preserve the Constitution of the United States of America. The Constitution is not strong enough to survive any branch of government that acts in spirit and/or legally above the law.
I the people believe the Country will survive and be stronger during and after this procedure and outcome because we have fulfilled our right and responsibility to preserve the Constitution. We also believe that the majority of members from all branches of government and the press are loyal above all to the Constitution and will fulfill their right and responsibility. For failure of one and/or any not to take on his/her duty/duties to protect the Constitution will have the same effect of irreversible damage to the Constitution and its citizens from henceforth.
I have yesterday sent my views on the subject to Mr. Hollen of DNCC as follows:
Dear Mr. Hollen
I am very disappointed with the way things are being handled by the Congress (both Houses). THIS IS EVIDENT BY THE LATEST JOB APPROVAL POLLS - CONGRESS'
@ 24% IS EVEN LOWER THAT PRESIDENT BUSH'S WHICH IS 31%.
The Democrate Party supporters, having done their share to elect a majority in both houses in the last elections, find that the things have remained almost unchanged. The White House continues with its failed "Stay the course" policy in Iraq while our gallant soldiers (most of them in late teens and early twenties) are being killed, maimed and their lives permanently damaged to satisfy the whims of an stubborn "intelligence-challenged" adminitration whose activities are, on a number of occasions, seem to be bordering on being criminal and illegal.
I request that, in order to keep your loyal supporters base intact, the Congress must become more aggressive in dealing with the Administration by pursuing an Impeacment Resolution for the failed policies; stonewalling all attempts of Congressional Oversight and Investigations of Administration's activities, and arrogant disregard of the recommendations of "9/11 Commision" and "Iraq Study Group", etc. This is very important for success in next years Congressional and Presidential Elections.
Please convey my views to the party leadership for immediate and positive action. Thanks.
Neil Johnson, thank you for your honesty. It's very refreshing to encounter a Bush supporter who is honest enough to say that he believes that the cold-blooded premeditated murder of hundreds of thousands of men and women and children, for no reason except to steal their oil, is fine-and-dandy.
I can suggest only one modification, to make your comment 100% honest. You need to delete the phrase "pre-emptive wars" and replace it with the phrase "wars of aggression." This war is not really pre-emptive, because there was nothing to pre-empt. By now, everyone in the world (except a small percentage, comprising the most ignorant people in the world) understands that the "imminent act of aggression" by Iraq against the United States, which the Bush administration said the war would pre-empt, was just a fiction which was cynically invented by the Bush administration itself.
By the way, do you ever watch American movies? Does it bother you that your side always loses? The rancher who murders the people on a neighboring ranch, because he wants their water, always loses. The Fuehrer who starts a war, because he wants his Vaterland to have more Lebensraum, always loses. Guys like you always get shot at by John Wayne. It must be very uncomfortable for you, to live in America but to have values which are 180 degrees opposite from the values of normal American culture.
You wrote: "I can do without civil liberties. But if I can't drive to work..." Haven't you noticed that this country was founded by people like Benjamin Franklin, whose beliefs were 180 degrees opposite from yours? Wouldn't you be happier somewhere else? How about Saudi Arabia, or Dubai?
Mr. Franklin was right: any safety that you can purchase by giving up civil liberties will only be temporary. In the long run, you will have neither liberty nor safety.
This show was your best ever, Bill. Great guests, with above-average cup sizes.
The opinion poll you cite is bogus; polls, like statistics, lie. For an explanation about the polls and why they are erroneous, go to www.LewRockwell.com, and search that site. A couple of the recent articles are very insightful.
Bill Moyer,
My Husband and I will not miss your journals, we thank you so much for the courage to bring such eye opening story to the people,we look forward to the congress taking on the job they where elected to do, and stop the war, they promised.. but every one is only interested in playing both sides of the fence so not to disturb the position they have Speaker Polosi gave us her word that she would get our boys home, 6 months later we are no further ahead!!!! Please keep up the great work, and we thank you Mr. Moyer
A federal grand jury had just handed up an indictment against Treasurer Thomas Ravenel, scion of one of the state's leading political families, for allegedly distributing cocaine. Mr. Ravenel, who had recently defeated a Democratic incumbent who held the office for 36 years, was the statewide chairman for former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign, in what has historically been a decisive early primary state.
The indictment is just one of the political headaches across the South that are making Republicans look more vulnerable than they have in years to losing ground in the region's legislatures and statehouses. Though there isn't any sign of them losing their dominance in the region, the once-formidable "Solid South" coalitions they forged in the 1980s and 1990s to end a century of Democratic dominion have given way to messy schisms and infighting. Today, they look a lot like the bitterly divided Democrats of three decades ago.>
Reply to No Fear's reasoned
response to my question What
is the Democrat/Move On plan to defend America against the military attack
of the Jihadists? We tried the criminal justice
approach to Jihadism from
1992-2000 under the Clinton
administration. It led to emboldening the Jihadists
to the point of September
11. One of the realities of war is that the enemy must be engaged on the battlefield he is on, not the one we prefer. The Jihadists have chosen brutal
military style operations
not bank robberies. He scoffs when we engage him at
an intensity level unequal to his. As for the military
breaking, I know these soldiers and the truth is that we now have the most
experienced, effective,
razor-sharp, fighting force
for asymetrical urban combat in the world today.
That is what the Jihadists
fear and respect.
If only people would think about our system rather than whichever political party is up or down at the moment. The remarkable interview with Fein and Nichols focused our minds on that. It's time for people to gather in public and talk about the impeachment of Bush and Cheney to save the form of government designed so brilliantly in 1787 by the Founding Fathers. Please come to an unsponsored, unscripted, non-partisan vigil set for Saturday, July 21 at 1 p.m. in Lafayette Park, across from the north lawn of the White House. For more information, visit http://seeyouinthepark.blogspot.com . This isn't about partisan advantage, but preservation of the freedoms that we assumed were inviolate when we were growing up. Turns out we can never stop fighting for them.
Adam, the "meaning of your argument would provoke a much better reception if you simply learned to spell and speak. Lack of education does indicate a person's intelligence. . . lack of knowledge of history is scandalous, so I suggest you start reading.
The minute Bush wanted to go to Iraq to seek Weapons of Mass Destruction, I knew another Vietnam was coming. (I think a lot of other people knew it in their hearts also, but didn't have the courage to speak up.)
What "war debate"? I watched two "Bush-haters" and a flaming-liberial host. There was absolutely NO debate. A true jurnalist would have hosted a well represented debate with "experts" from both sides of the issue. The problem from the left is they fail to realize this is a full-out war unlike any ever faught in American history. I pledge never to give PBS a dime if they continue to push such a liberial anti-war forum. I'll gladly forfiet some privacy during a time of war. Moyers' point-of-view will cost him his head if he lets Al-Q have there way.
I called WNET to order a DVD copy of Bill Moyer's outstanding program on impeachment. I was told that DVDs would not be available until August 24 (and mailing takes up to 5 days after that.) I was heartsick because I had planned to show it to my neighbors, and loan it to my friends and co-workers.
We can't wait until September to begin educating other Americans about impeachment.
Mr. Moyers, is there some way to speed up production of this DVD?
Also, what about displaying some pithy quotes from the show on tee shirts (to catch those who would never watch PBS.) We've got to make as many people as possble understand what's happening to our democracy. I personally would appreciate some talking points to use once someone read my shirt. These talking points would keep me on track and stop me from smacking any moron who started arguing with me.
God bless Bill Moyers, and God bless America.
Marilyn Nelson
The core rationale for the pre-emptive invasion of a sovereign nation put forth by the Bush administration, above all objections and questions both domestically and internationally, was WMD.
Bush's very first public comment about the question of WMD in Iraq after the invasion was: "Well...the Iraq people are better off today without Saddam."
Without a public acknowledgment of the mistake, and an international apology, Congress could, and should have impeached him within months of those comments. We all know what happened instead.
There's been little public discourse over this bait-and-switch strategy. Proportional to its importance, there's also been very little coverage or discussion of the hearings into pre-war intelligence.
Currently it appears the public and Congress seem to lack a fundamental insight:
The end of this administration will inevitably set a precedent of great historical proportions, either because of an impeachment, or because there was no impeachment; either way it will cast a long shadow onto the future. If they lose only one day in office, the precedent is still the same as if they left tomorrow morning.
A quick, collective recognition of this inevitability would allow the discussion to move on to which precedent we want to see.
The many examples of impeachable behavior make it clear that if Congress doesn't prosecute an impeachment of this President and Vice President, its hard to imagine any future administration ever being impeached. The whole notion of impeachment as a viable remedy for presidential misconduct will have lost much of its meaning.
On the other hand, impeachment of this President and Vice-President would profoundly reaffirm and reinforce the Constitution's structure of checks and balances, and put all future administrations on notice that there are some limits on how much unilateral power can be assumed by the executive branch. It would also jump-start the recovery of our international standing.
The recent episode of BMJ was the closest thing I've seen to a public discussion of these issues. I fault the guests for only one position: their notion that the administration can stay on if they mend their ways. This creates a precedent that says "its ok to do these things, as long as you stop when we tell you to". Nothing short of a completed impeachment process should be accepted. Clinton walked the whole road for a private tryst, surely the current administration's behavior deserves at least the same walk.
Thank you Bill Moyers for addressing this issue and allowing Mr. Fein to give his expertise. Anyone that still supports this administration and this war, is either extremely ignorant, naiive, or insane. Everyone should be made to sacrifice for this country, especially the wealthy. If things dont change soon, this american will be moving to Europe.
[i]...if we leave Iraq to the Jihadists, what is the DEMOCRAT, MOVE ON, plan to defend America and defeat the military efforts of the Jihadists who have vowed to destroy western civilization?[/i]
First, if we leave our military in Iraq, it will break in 2008 and won't be able to defend America, so any rational discussion has to accept that fact. I haven't heard any NEOCON, BUSH LOYALIST present a plan to reapair our military, so that they can defend us. All I hear is how they will defend Iraqis who won't compromise and make political concessions to reach a viable independence. But, as for the DEMOCRAT, MOVEON plan, it would look a bit like Great Britian, where intelligence and good police work protect the country (Saudi Arabia has had similar success) ... where recommendations by the 9/11 Commission and Iraq Study Group would be adopted ... where FISA courts provide oversight, torture is repudiated and habeas corpus is restored ... and our military is restored to full strength, special forces are expanded and these braves patriots and their families are respected. There is a flawed logic that if we occupy Iraq, we are safer, despite diminished military capacity and the fact that Jihadists can attack anywhere, at anytime. Nothing about our presence in Iraq means Jihadists are confined to Iraq. That is a fallacy exposed by Glasgow, Bali, Madrid, Darfur, Pakistan, Lebanon, etc.
As for future generations thanking Bush and Cheney for securing oil that will be vital to our economy, what ignorance! Bush and Cheney have crippled efforts for energy independence, and thwarted alternative energy efforts.
Do you believe & have faith in Pres. Bush & VP Cheney? Invest a son and/or daughter in their policies. Tell the mother of an Iraq WIA or KIA how lucky she is to have a son or daughter who gave their lives & bodies. Are we really fighting terrorists, or Islamic exremists and nationalists? I wouldn't take the Pres. or the VP's word on it.....Afterall, WMD's were the excuse used to get us there in the first place. Impeach Bush and/or Cheney? I think the nation has grounds to do so....
I have enjoyed most of the comments on this blog. I’ll add to it again by sharing with everybody what was on Democracy Now today and what I found out about Iran. Call your congressman, demand they don’t go on a break until Bush/Cheney are impeached. September may be too late.
Is the stage being set for a US attack on Iran? The Guardian newspaper of London is reporting that the balance in the internal White House debate over Iran has reportedly shifted in favor of military action before President Bush leaves office in 18 months.
The Guardian quotes what it calls a "well-placed source in Washington" as saying: "Bush is not going to leave office with Iran still in Limbo." The source also said Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney did not trust any potential successors in the White House, Republican or Democrat, to deal with Iran decisively. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/16/1330225
If the right wingers can stand by the logic of pre-emptive attacks, (didn’t the Geneva conventions state this was the heinous of all acts) – then let us use that logic to stop them from attacking Iran. Pre-empt Bush/Cheney Impeach them now before they implement plans already in place.
For a state as antagonistic as Iran even to know how to make nuclear weapons was unacceptable. Long before the Iraq invasion, Israeli officials had told the Bush administration that Iran was a far greater threat than Iraq. "If you look at President Bush's 'axis of evil' list, all of us said North Korea and Iran are more urgent," says former Mossad director of intelligence Uzi Arad, who served as Netanyahu's foreign-policy adviser. "Iraq was already semi-controlled because there were sanctions. It was outlawed. Sometimes the answer [from the neocons] was 'Let's do first things first. Once we do Iraq, we'll have a military presence in Iraq, which would enable us to handle the Iranians from closer quarters, would give us more leverage.'"
In April, Seymour Hersh reported in The New Yorker that U.S. troops were already on the ground in Iran, negotiating alliances with the Azerbaijanis in the North, the Kurds in the Northeast, and the Baluchis in the Southeast. In September, Time reported that a U.S. campaign to wipe out Iran's nuclear program could entail bombing up to 1,500 targets. More recently, Paul Craig Roberts, a former assistant secretary of the Treasury under Ronald Reagan, asserted in the Baltimore Chronicle that Bush "will attack Iran with tactical nuclear weapons, because it is the only way the neocons believe they can rescue their goal of U.S. (and Israeli) hegemony in the Middle East." Adds former C.I.A. officer Philip Giraldi, "I've heard from sources at the Pentagon that their impression is that the White House has made a decision that war is going to happen." (Craig Unger, Vanity Fair March 2007)
“President Bush dismissed news reports that his administration has been working on contingency plans for war -- particularly talk of the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons against Tehran -- as "wild speculation.” In early 2003, even as U.S. forces were on the brink of war with Iraq, the Army had already begun conducting an analysis for a full-scale war with Iran. The analysis, called TIRANNT, for "theater Iran near term," was coupled with a mock scenario for a Marine Corps invasion and a simulation of the Iranian missile force.
Under TIRANNT, Army and U.S. Central Command planners have been examining both near-term and out-year scenarios for war with Iran, including all aspects of a major combat operation, from mobilization and deployment of forces through postwar stability operations after regime change. This contingency plan entitled CONPLAN 8022 would be activated in the eventuality of a Second 9/11, on the presumption that Iran would be behind it.
Various scenarios involving Iran's missile force have also been examined in another study, initiated in 2004 and known as BMD-I (ballistic missile defense -- Iran). In this study, the Center for Army Analysis modeled the performance of U.S. and Iranian weapons systems to determine the number of Iranian missiles expected to leak through a coalition defense.
The day-to-day planning for dealing with Iran's missile force falls to the U.S. Strategic Command in Omaha. In June 2004, Rumsfeld alerted the command to be prepared to implement CONPLAN 8022, a global strike plan that includes Iran. CONPLAN 8022 calls for bombers and missiles to be able to act within 12 hours of a presidential order. The new task force, sources have told me, mostly worries that if it were called upon to deliver "prompt" global strikes against certain targets in Iran under some emergency circumstances, the president might have to be told that the only option is a nuclear one.” (William Arkin Washington Post 4-16-2006)
The use of tactical nuclear weapons is contemplated under CONPLAN 8022 alongside conventional weapons, as part of the Bush administration's preemptive war doctrine. In May 2004, National Security Presidential Directive NSPD 35 entitled Nuclear Weapons Deployment Authorization was issued. While its contents remains classified, the presumption is that NSPD 35 pertains to the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons in the Middle East war theater in compliance with CONPLAN 8022.
War preparations in Israel have been ongoing since late 2004. The Israeli Air Force would attack Iran's nuclear facility at Bushehr using US as well Israeli produced bunker buster bombs. The attacks are slated to be carried out in three separate waves "with the radar and communications jamming protection being provided by U.S. Air Force AWACS and other U.S. aircraft in the area".
The bunker buster bombs can also be used to deliver tactical nuclear bombs. The B61-11 is the "nuclear version" of the "conventional" BLU 113. It can be delivered in much same way as the conventional bunker buster bomb. ( Michel Chossudovsky, globalresearch 02/21/2007 ) .
The following is taken from the administrations’ March 2006 National Security Strategy: “ The path we have chosen is consistent with the great tradition of American foreign policy. Like the policies of Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan, our approach is idealistic about our national goals, and realistic about the means to achieve them.
We may face no greater challenge from a single country than from Iran. For almost 20 years, the Iranian regime hid many of its key nuclear efforts from the international community. Yet the regime continues to claim that it does not seek to develop nuclear weapons. The Iranian regime’s true intentions are clearly revealed by the regime’s refusal to negotiate in good faith; its refusal to come into compliance with its international obligations by providing the IAEA access to nuclear sites and resolving troubling questions; and the aggressive statements of its President calling for Israel to “be wiped off the face of the earth.” The United States has joined with our EU partners and Russia to pressure Iran to meet its international obligations and provide objective guarantees that its nuclear program is only for peaceful purposes. This diplomatic effort must succeed if confrontation is to be avoided.
As important as are these nuclear issues, the United States has broader concerns regarding Iran. The Iranian regime sponsors terrorism; threatens Israel; seeks to thwart Middle East peace; disrupts democracy in Iraq; and denies the aspirations of its people for freedom. The nuclear issue and our other concerns can ultimately be resolved only if the Iranian regime makes the strategic decision to change these policies, open up its political system, and afford freedom to its people. This is the ultimate goal of U.S. policy. In the interim, we will continue to take all necessary measures to protect our national and economic security against the adverse effects of their bad conduct. The problems lie with the illicit behavior and dangerous ambition of the Iranian regime, not the legitimate aspirations and interests of the Iranian people. Our strategy is to block the threats posed by the regime while expanding our engagement and outreach to the people the regime is oppressing. (NSS March 2006)
Rome is burning, the writing is on the wall. Just ask yourself would this administration let Iran stand pat after the U.S. has taken away it biggest adversary? Why would generals threaten to quit if this wasn’t a major possibility?
“ Some of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.
Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.
“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. (Smith & Baxter The Sunday Times 02/27/2007)
If you got this far thank you. Believe me I am no supporter of Iran. They are not our enemy. You only need to look in the mirror. Peak oil is here and gone (my only proof is the Exxon made a commercial about it, if they feel the need to mention it, it must have happened a couple of years ago). Connect the dots. America must control the Middle East if we have any hope to sustain our standard of living. There must be a better way than nuking Iran. It is unthinkable to me, but it is not to Dick Cheney.
P.S. Neil are you going to thank him when the Nukes rain down?
I'm really sorry that you would prefer to live under a dictatorship, but are you sure your children will feel the same way? It is to your credit that at least someone from the right has finally came forward and admitted that the current Iraq war is about oil and not WMDs, or Al Qaeda. Now, please explain that to the fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, wives, and children of the 3602 (last count I heard) military personnel who have died (and thousands more maimed for life) so you can enjoy your current life style. Pathetic!
As President Bush's father said in 2002, "the American way of life is not negotiable". Can you imagine how life would be for us if we did not have access to oil from the Middle East? Bush and Cheney, as oil men, understand this. They will thanklessly do whatever it takes to keep the oil flowing for us, including waging pre-emptive wars and leaving in place vast armies to preserve American access to oil fields in other countries. I'm voting for whichever candidate insures that we have access to fossil fuels. I can do without civil liberties. But if I can't drive to work then I can't feed my family. The youth of America will thank President Bush for annexing an oil-rich country when peak oil hits the world soon and there's not enough oil to meet world demand.
Posted by: mike shriver | July 16, 2007 05:31 AM
Mr Shriver, you said, in part: ....this part of the show was, for me, sadly a return to the kind of pseudo-journalism that we have become accustomed to in this country. advancing the meme that congress remains spineless is both a brilliant way to allow the previous two congresses, both controlled by the republican party, to be absolved of all guilt as well as to advance a very insidious and effective meme for the 2008 elections. after all, if all the blame is because no one in congress now (read - a congress now controlled by the democrats) is willing t be a real patriot and take back our constitution, then we know what to do. we have two parties to chose from. the current (democrats) party is useless. the show never made any indication that the previous party was useless.
voila -- we already have the television and radio spots for the republican campaigns for the control of the house and senate in the next election cycle....."
"....not only folly, but a blatant set up. by advancing, unchallenged, the notion that we are sinking because the current congress is spineless is to be an active player in writing thee campaign scripts for the next election cycle. for the republicans....
If you had simply made this point, your observations would have been effective. To expect one (forty minute?) program to cover all you have covered in your summary of the program's shortcomings you have buried this blazing "meme" now being perpetuated on the American Public.
Brevity and Repetition of a single point are the tools which have catapulted this administration into power. When we learn to use their techniques based on truth not fabrications, we'll lead once again.
The true battle we're fighting today is whether the truth is imperative, and therefore worth demanding, in political discourse. Why must we allow politicians immunity in their misuse of factual statements?
We, the Democrats and Independents, must learn to point out falsehoods and misinformation and then pound out the truth refuting their fabrications.
i.e.
THE FAILURE TO EXPOSE THE DUPLICITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION IS ROOTED IN THE PREVIOUS, REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED, CONGRESS, AND MUST NOW BE ADDRESSED WITH A BI-PARTISIAN EFFORT. IF THE REPUBLICANS REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR ROLE IN THE CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL EMERGENCY, REMOVE THEM FROM OFFICE.
Perhaps I missed my post in sea of liberal hysteria that
passes for thought on this blog, but it appears that it was deleted by the editor. My MAIN question is
still this: OK, Bush is bad, people are dieing in Iraq, etc., if we leave Iraq
to the Jihadists, what is the DEMOCRAT, MOVE ON, plan
to defend America and defeat
the military efforts of the
Jihadists who have vowed to
destroy western civilization? This is a
rational question liberals
are not answering!
President Dwight Eisenhower
in his final address to the nation in 1961 warned that America must"guard against the acquisition of unwarrented influence...by the military-industrial complex." This was presented in a DVD documentry titled;Why We Fight, and it appears clear to me that Dwight Eisenhower could see from his perspective in 1961 hugh problems for the world that would be coming out of our military-industrial complex.The Bush/Cheney Administration and Congress continue to support this complex and show no mercy for the millions of lives that are broken and destroyed by the Iraq war. Bush/Cheney are having it their way, and for all of us who disagree and oppose the killing, it doesn't matter, the killing and the war will continue until who knows when ?? I am ashamed as an American citizen and in addition to having my taxes help pay for killing men, women and children....we see over 45 million Americans without health care. This is so shameful. France, Britain, Canada and Cuba provide excellent health care for all their people while in the USA it's only for those who can "pull themselves up by their own boot straps...." America isn't the leader of the world as it was fifty years ago, and Bush/Cheney and Congress have done so much harm to our country in the past six years, I have very little hope that America will ever regain respect from people of other nations. I praise Bill Moyer and PBS for showing the other side.
This whas the most one-sided liberial attack against the current administration I have ever seen. Why would you put two "Bush-haters" on TV with no opposing view point. Bill Moyers looks like all the other wacko liberals. PBS is part of the left-wing media pupets.
After reading a few more blogs, what I find so disconcerting is that a remainder of bloggers find Bill Moyers to be slanted. If true, then the show should have been titled "away with Bush and Cheney". But, it was titled "the war debate." The intention of the show is to analyze the context and process leading to the war. In other words, the war debate attempts to calculate and verify whether or not there is validity in the results/aftermath of this war. Thus, if Bush and Cheney were just variables in the equation (or replace them with another pair of leaders), all the components together wouldn't add up to the rules of law set up by the Constitution. The show is not designed as a personal attack against Bush and Cheney. Rather, it provides context to the irrational, illogical, and damaging situation in which our country exist as a result of the means and/or methods lending to our current situation. To be slanted means that there has been personal offense committed with Bush and Cheney. If a personal offense has occurred against you, that is for you to address with them. I don't know them; they are not my buddies. I operate under the framework that they are elected officials, expected to be responsible leaders. They are to use their faculties and their best judgment to protect my country, my rights and my life. People are expressing their sentiments as to their actions as President and Vice President of the United States and not for who they are. Please be mindful of separating the role and the person.
Kudos on a tremendous show. This should be required viewing for ALL members of Congress.
For those who ask "but what LAW was broken?" you obviously didn't watch the show carefully. The President can be impeached for treason, high crimes and MISDEMEANORS. Misdemeanors as in misbehaving, not necessarily violations of the written law. The President and Vice President have exceeded the bounds of their Constitutional authority, repeatedly and continuously. They must be impeached (and hopefully convicted) to protect the system of government that has worked for us for over 200 years. If you simply MUST have an example of an actual law that has been violated, the most obvious is that mentioned several times by Bruce Fein on this show: FISA, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. The President authorized intelligence collection on American citizens and did not secure a warrant from the FISA court within 72 hours, which the law requires. He did this numerous times, each time a violation of the law. That alone justifies impeachment, as surely as lying to investigators and obstructing justice.
Remember the difference between IMPEACHMENT and CONVICTION. All impeachment does is start an official investigation and lead to a Senate trial. The President would not be removed from office unless CONVICTED by the Senate.
After reading a few more blogs, what I find so disconcerting is that a remainder of bloggers find Bill Moyers to be slanted. If true, then the show should have been titled "away with Bush and Cheney". But, it was titled "the war debate." The intention of the show is to analyze the context and process leading to the war. In other words, the war debate attempts to calculate and verify whether or not there is validity in the results/aftermath of this war. Thus, if Bush and Cheney were just variables in the equation (or replace them with another pair of leaders), all the components together wouldn't add up to the rules of law set up by the Constitution. The show is not designed as a personal attack against Bush and Cheney. Rather, it provides context to the irrational, illogical, and damaging situation in which our country exist as a result of the means and/or methods lending to our current situation. To be slanted means that there has been personal offense committed with Bush and Cheney. If a personal offense has occurred against you, that is for you to address with them. I don't know them; they are not my buddies. I operate under the framework that they are elected officials, expected to be responsible leaders. They are to use their faculties and their best judgment to protect my country, my rights and my life. People are expressing their sentiments as to their actions as President and Vice President of the United States and not for who they are. Please be mindful of separating the role and the person.
Impeachment will not happen as a partisan event. Even if Pelosi and the Democrats pursue impeachment, how likely is it the Republicans will join suit? And the Supreme Court? cheney-bush have so much stacked in their favor, what is Plan B to save our country and our Constitution? Is impeachment really possible given these grim circumstances, and if not, what is the alternative to it, and how do we start working on that?
Thank you Bill Moyers and team. This show made me go and write a letter to my Congressman to support impeachment. I also want to learn more about how the balance of power in goverment is being taught in school and universities. The guests suggested that the current Congress isn't educated enough in Constitutional law to know their responsibilities. I actually hope that statement is true. It's hard for me to believe any representative would blatantly shirk a responsibility because of the comfort of power. I still have faith in government and people standing up for what's right. Please continue to produce shows that ask deep questions. Thank you.
while i found the show on impeachment to be, as always with bill moyers, of the highest quality, i came away from it far less impressed by its objectivity and more unsettled by its omissions and poorly evidenced assumptions. the analysis of the crisis we are now situated in, by both moyers and the 2 panelists was remarkably slanted. i would even suggest partisan. secondly, the blame game bandied about in the discussion was predicated upon completely ignoring the previous two congresses and their efforts (and failures therein) to do anything to curb the rise to such power as enjoyed now by the president. when the panelists state, and moyers leaves unchallenged, that the reason we have not impeached is because nancy pelosi and the house leadership are spineless, the meme is not just introduced but given credibility. the show broke ground in beginning to lay out factual and procedural justification for the impeachment process to move forward. that is an awesome undertaking. the show failed however, to do this giant step in a fair, balanced and historical context. that reality must be fixed.
for example, there were some decidedly absent components to the discussion of impeachment in the show, not the least of which was the fact that one "experts" was part of the process which deliberately sought to make mockery of the exact same impeachment procedures that he now waxes on so eloquently about.
the suggestion of analogy between the politically and frankly personally-motivated impeachment proceedings against clinton and the present situation fail under scrutiny. i would point out that the timeline moyers suggested regarding the clinton proceedings forgot the fact that ken starr (et al) had already been amassing information against the president well before the house moved the impeachment process forward. starr was the beneficiary of a well-funded republican congressionally-sponsored investigation of clinton. any parallel investigation that looks remotely like the ones against clinton? hardly.
fein's glossing over his own culpability in the clinton impeachment process makes his passion and fervor suspect, regardless of the political affiliation of the sitting president.
another very distressing part of the discussion was the absolute exoneration of the previous congress of any blame for the current mess we find ourselves in. not once in the discussion did the panel (or moyers for that matter) step back and remind themselves and the viewers that one of the biggest reasons we are in the midst of this mess is that the past congresses, when republican-party dominated and controlled did absolutely nothing to stem the usurpation of power by the president. nothing.
in other words, after watching the show, if i knew no better, i would assume that the past few congresses were actually more combative with the president, more willing to challenge him, more of what we NEED as opposed to what we HAVE. that kind of disinformation i have come to expect from the so-called mainstream media; i expect a more robust and accurate delineation of accountability from someone of the caliber of moyers.
the media almost is highlighted for their active complicity in covering up and under-reporting the truth of the activities of this administration, but true to form, when push comes to shove, the media and all attendant punditry are let off far too easily, and the focus becomes one of targeting solely the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi.
this part of the show was, for me, sadly a return to the kind of pseudo-journalism that we have become accustomed to in this country. advancing the meme that congress remains spineless is both a brilliant way to allow the previous two congresses, both controlled by the republican party, to be absolved of all guilt as well as to advance a very insidious and effective meme for the 2008 elections. after all, if all the blame is because no one in congress now (read - a congress now controlled by the democrats) is willing t be a real patriot and take back our constitution, then we know what to do. we have two parties to chose from. the current (democrats) party is useless. the show never made any indication that the previous party was useless.
voila -- we already have the television and radio spots for the republican campaigns for the control of the house and senate in the next election cycle.
for shame.
i expect that bill moyers would take to this type of partisanship and stop it with facts -- instead we were deluged with how no one has done anything at all to change this course of destruction and ruin meme. forget the fact that the facts speak otherwise. forget the fact that waxman, sanchez, etc. are in fact holding hearings, are subpoenaing and are having people testify (as well as refuse to testify) etc. forget the fact that these hearings could have and should have been done two, three, four years ago - and were not. forget the fact that in the house waxman, sanchez, etc. are doing two jobs simultaneously -- that of their charge in committee leadership as well as the job that was NOT done by their republican predecessors.
why this was not made clear in the show is beyond the pale. and really poor journalism. why be objective when one can conveniently be incendiary and provocative?
in the past seven months the expectation therefore is that the democrats have to not only return the chambers back to fully functioning bodies where the committee structure operates properly and the legislative cycle is back in sync with the congressional calendar BUT TO ALSO have more than adequate research already done so that the impeachment process can be advanced.
utter folly.
not only folly, but a blatant set up. by advancing, unchallenged, the notion that we are sinking because the current congress is spineless is to be an active player in writing thee campaign scripts for the next election cycle. for the republicans.
i expect more. i expect more honesty and i expect more thoughtful analysis from moyers. and while the overall impression i left the show with was more positive than negative, these glaring omissions and revisions and inaccuracies really do hurt the credibility of the show in advancing its conclusions.
scooter libby's pardon just may have been the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of discussing the real threat we live under with a administration that so blatantly ignores the law. however, moyers and the panelists use libby as an example and selectively omit more pressing and salient rulings and examples of the bush administration's casual disregard for process. had they even looked at but one recent court ruling the discussion could probably have become more relevant and less rhetorical in its conclusion.
to wit, the fact that a few fridays ago the 6th circuit court ruled against the aclu who brought the case against the administration for the warrantless wiretapping program. the white house/NSA would not release the information to the aclu about the program (claiming privilege) and as a result, the aclu lost the case.
this white house is advancing a constitutional crisis, no doubt. the panelists are correct in that analysis. but to suggest that impeachment is the remedy belies a serious misunderstanding of the impeachment process as well as a miscalculation as to the what the real crisis is that that is looming.
the president has stated and is acting upon an assumption of executive privilege that even nixon could not maintain (following the court's ruling against him in 1973).
the one case of specific relevance to the impeachment call -- that of the aclu and warrentless wiretapping -- was won by the administration SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT WITHHELD PERTINENT INFORMATION FROM THE ACLU.
every opportunity to date, the administration has reaffirmed its position -- we will not cooperate, we will not participate. period. under no circumstance. the white house has made it clear that it will not honor or respect the requests of congress (even subpoenas) regarding the requests for witnesses, testimony, information, data, etc.
this is the starting point with the administration.
congress requests, the white house refuses. congress asks, the white house obfuscates, lies, finds files "missing" or "inadvertently destroyed" or sends back explanations that are clearly more a statement of contempt than legally-binding explanations.
to suggest that impeachment proceedings will curtail this arrogance is to believe in magic beans.
why? where is there any incentive in the impeachment process, per se, that would compel the administration to change its position on executive privilege? there is none except and when the white house's claim for executive privilege is challenged in a court of law. absent this "privilege" being challenged, what guarantee if any is there that critical evidence that is solely in the possession of the administration will ever be made available?
the aclu case would indicate an answer that i find terrifying. and this is, i would suggest, the real crisis, whether or not this supreme court would rule to give the standing president more power than any president has ever had before, namely the power to never have to obey the law. ever. and do so and establish legal precedent. THAT is the crisis looming in the wings, i would suggest.
the showdown is readily apparent -- as with nixon, a supreme court decision regarding executive privilege is obviously going to either make or break both the bush presidency and the impeachment process. the looming constitutional crisis for which an impeachment process will not be remedy but instead catalyst for would be the ruling by the supreme court in favor of its administration.
the supreme court, which has recently ruled for all intents and purposes to overturn brown v board of education, is the same court we would look to for remedy to stop this administration form its intentional disregard for the law?
therein lies the threat that ought to be discussed, and incorporated into the dialog about how to hold this administration appropriately accountable for its dereliction of duty while at the same time not providing it with, intentionally or not, more power. the kind of power that could render a democracy useless.
It was recently brought to my attention that on April 24, 2007, there was placed before the House of Representatives a bill, H.RES.333, sponsored by Rep. Dennis Kucinich and currently cosponsored by 13 other brave opponents of American facism, entitled: Impeaching Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors. Please write your representatives and ask them to become cosponsors of H.Res. 333. I'm not sure why this bill was not known about or mentioned on the Journal program. It seems to me someone should have known about it. For the record, I do respect Speaker Nancy Pelosi, but I think she's wrong about impeachment.
I found Bruce Fein's arguments in favor of impeachment compelling. I also think if just the vice president is removed from office, the president will follow -- because that's really what Bush has been doing all along, following Cheney. But I wouldn't mind if they were in the docket together. It could be our version of Nuremburg, where we punish our war criminals.
I also found it interesting that Mr. Fein was assistant attorney general during Reagan's presidency, when Edwin Meese was attorney general. I never had much respect for Meese, nevertheless I wonder what he feels about the growing movement to oust the current leaders and Mr. Fein's part in it.
It is refreshing to see at least one media outlet taking up this issue. I am an American ex-pat working over in China at the moment and I do see a sense of irony that a country which has been known and criticized for its single party system (the CCP), corrupt officials and extreme forms of monitoring, surveillance and censorship of its citizens has been striving for more democracy and freedoms to slowly become more like us, even as we, a country that has long been the example of democratic ideals seem to be becoming more like them. Well there is one key difference. That is when Chinese officials are found guilty of corruption, they are often executed. Here we just commute the sentence…..unless you’re not lucky enough to be a Bush politician….and you’re cited under the patriot act…..in which case you might tortured and….well you see my point.
It is a sad state of affairs when the leadership in America is becoming the poster-child for the old statement that ‘absolute power corrupts absolutely’. This slow abuse of liberties and powers that has crept in to our system of government over the last 2 presidential terms becomes more frightening by the day. Politicians seem only focused on the short term, not on the generations who will come after them. It is the ultimate legacy of politicians learning from the ‘me’ generation.
We have seen a Vice President and a President who both take actions ‘above the law’. Excusing friends, exposing political enemies (even when said enemies are tied to the CIA) and avoiding the legal system at nearly every turn when it suits their purpose. Examples include, refusing to make statements under oath into 9/11 commission investigations, and telling the police to ‘come back later’ after a shooting accident to name a few.
If you take a look at the fall of ‘great’ empires throughout history, they generally follow similar patterns. It begins with corruption at the highest levels which later leads to widening gaps in status/wealth. Then come sequentially stricter enforcements over time to maintain the ‘status quo’ for those in power, until ultimately so much corruption has eaten away at the system that the enforcements cannot be maintained to contain the opposition. It happened in Rome, Russia, Britain, and to nearly every Dynasty in China. If we don’t take action soon, it will ultimately become our legacy as well.
Yes, I agree that Bush and Cheney committed impeachable, criminal acts. The shame is that Congress, the Press, and the public acquiesced and even blessed the war and the subversion of the Constitution for so long. Surely, we must share some collective responsibility for what's been done to Iraq, the men and women in the armed forces, and world peace.
As much as I would like to end our involvement in the war, I believe it would be morally wrong to leave Iraq now. We cannot leave a country where men and women are dragged out of their cars and shot dead in front of their families, where people are tortured to death in unspeakable ways, and where no place is safe from the madness and hatred of suicide bombers.
The actions of our country (however misguided and mislead) unleashed the evil and anarchy that has swept up so many innocent people. As painful and horrible as it is to continue this war without end, can we, in good conscience, leave the Iraq and the region exposed to the chaos we created?
I know the prospect of staying in Iraq another year or more is grim, and everyone is sick of this war. But, if it means making Iraq a safer and more democratic place, I believe we owe it to the Iraqi people, who have suffered even more dearly than we have.
Every Friday, I set aside time to make sure that I watch Bill Moyers Journal. This was yet another powerful, honest, excellent, informative episode! Thank you Mr Moyers! There is only one other out there in the "media" that seems to have the courage to come out and say what is also on MANY AMERICANS MINDS, and that would be Keith Olbermann of MSNBC. On the Eve of July 4th, 2007, Olberman states "Bush and Cheney Should Resign" : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2gm8c_olbermann-bush-cheney-should-resign
And I happen to agree with him. And if they DON'T RESIGN, then "impeachment is the cure not the disease" as Mr Nichols nicely put it.
"Airliners into buildings".
Aren't we grasping for straws to legitamize Bush's constitutional violations?
He should be impeached. So what if Cheney is president. We can then impeach him. If we can find him.
I watched the complete show. The participants were very knowledgeable. One short coming is that the show was completely one sided. For instance:
1. There is no comparing Bill Clinton's impeachment with one with George Bush because time are different. We were at peace in the 1990's and at war now. In addition there is new knowledge. This knowledge is that our enemies have Weapons of Mass Destruction capabilities. (Airliners into buildings).
It is nice to be able to discuss theory with lawyers. It is hard to do that with a gun pointed at our head.
Just so you on the left can deal with my fear, I firmly believe I will see a nuclear bomb take out one of our cities in my lifetime. Just follow the increases in technology and you can see a day coming when it will be very probable to increase a terror strike many times over.
This point was never dealt with on the show. The implication was that our knowledge base is the same today as it was in the 90's with Clinton. It's simply a false premise.
2. In light of the above, it is very normal for our country to struggle with constitutional barriers. It has happened routinely through our history. Our constitution is fine for the day, but boundaries will need to be re written with this new and very dangerous threat.
Although I appreciated the show for the views of the guests, my concerns were not even touched on.
Basically my question is "how do we rewrite the boundaries of the different branches of government given the threat that a nuclear device can now be delivered on our soil by terrorists?"
Thank you for the remarkable interview with Fein and Nichols. It's time for people to gather in public places and talk about the impeachment of Bush and Cheney to save the form of government designed so brilliantly in 1787 by the Founding Fathers. Please come to an unsponsored, non-partisan vigil set for Saturday, July 21 at 1 p.m. in Lafayette Park, across from the north lawn of the White House. For more information, visit http://seeyouinthepark.blogspot.com
Nice work Mr. Moyers. This is the first TV show I am aware of to seriously discuss impeachment of Bush and Cheney. It was refreshing to hear both your guests say what I and my circle of friends have been thinking for some time now. I was very impressed with Bruce Fein who has shed the shackles of partisanship, and pointed out that our first loyalty is to our country and it's constitution, not to a man or party.
I'm glad you called Sara Tayor on her "oath to the president". Too bad she didn't have the patriotism of John Dean.
The other point raised, that even if impeachment proceedings drag on past Jan. 2008 rendering them moot, an example must be sent to future potential "unitary executives" that the United States is a democracy with checks and balances, and will not abide a monarchy.
(Thanks Vane Lashua for the Pelosi letter template. Letter is sent.)
To me the one effective way of voice our opinions is by the use of a bumper sticker. Impeach stickers are available on the internet. I strongly suggest that those that care deeply about this issue obtain one and display it.
well done, mister moyers. you are doing the work for most of the fourth estate. while they take the pablum served them daily by this administration you, once again, inform us and teach us our role as citizens. carry on. you are my hero!
I am not sure that I can add anything to what has already been said. Just add my vote for a huge congratulation and thanks to Bill Moyers and his staff and the PBS network for airing this and his other programs.
As to the people who want to know what Bush and Cheney have done to warrant impeachment procedings they are obviously part of that 3% who think the war is going well. I am sure that nothing would be able to convince them that impeachment is warranted. If they cannot see that lies that commit our men and women to harm's way are impeachable offenses then there is no evidence that will sway them.
Today, as every day, in my local newspaper, there are obituaries for the recently killed in Iraq. These obituaries now take up an entire page! How much more of this carnage must occur before our representatives will take action? My heart cries.
Excellent dialogue from everyone thus far! Thank you Bill Moyers for your show with Fein and Nichols.
I agree with D. Albertson that Cheney got what he wanted, a long and profitable war. R. Stanton, thank you for correcting Mike's assertion as to how the show is sponsored. K. Stewart, yes there are too many blogs to read. But, I am elated to see the number of responses and concerned citizens expressing needs for action. Lastly, Pablo de Valle, I understand your comments and would like to clarify a point. My interpretation of Fein's and Nichols' argument is that the rights authorized by the people to the current (questionably elected) leadership (and let us not forget) expects the President and Vice President to adhere and respect the Constitution as well as to protect the rights of the people. What the ccommentators felt to articulate as being problematic is that the rule of law was swept aside to go to war; war in itself is not a violation under the law but the process is what is in question. I hope this is helpful.
1) Congratulations to you, Bill Moyers, "and a good few others for continually having the guts to present to the public that the 'Emperor Has No Clothes'.
WE WILL REAP WHAT WE DESERVE IF WE DON'T ACT!"
[Thank you for the eloquence of an earlier responder.] I AGREE 100 PERCENT!
PEOPLE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER IN GROUPS TO ENSURE THAT GOVT ANSWERS TO THE PEOPLE.
2) PBS, PLEASE CONTINUE TO AIR MORE OF THIS PROGRAMMING DURING PRIME TIME, EVERY DAY, UNTIL CHANGE TAKES PLACE, UNTIL IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS ARE HELD, UNTIL TRUTH IS WRITTEN AND SPOKEN FREELY AGAIN, AND MOST OF ALL, UNTIL RULE OF LAW IS RESPECTED! Otherwise, we invite a new dark Feudal order!
3) PBS, please support and help to start CIVIC EDUCATION ON A NATIONAL SCALE through the good offices of your remaining free non-corporate-indebted media. PLEASE ASK VIEWERS TO CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY AND SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS EFFORT! I would respond to the best of my ability!
Can someone please explain to me what law was broken, exactly, where impeachment procedings are in order?
LIE? I thought I heard Hillary and Bill and John Kerry exort the reasons our policy on Iraq should be regime change a few years back... If those were also Lies, then I'm confused
Interesting that during the telecast there was not really anyone there to represent the other side of the story. I keep hearing people complain about "the fairness doctrine" for talk radio, but it's concerning that where my tax dollars and contributions to PBS are spent, it to forward only a single view, typically a very liberal one. When do we hear the consservative side of the argument? Is this journalism, or an opinion show?
By ordering its former Counsel, Harriet Miers, to withhold testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, she is about to be found in contempt of Congress. Relevant historical perspective comes from a different former White House Counsel:
At the beginning of the 110th Congress, you are reported to have indicated that impeachment was "off the table" for this session. I respectfully ask you and the Judiciary Committee to place it on the table.
The Office of the Vice President and President Bush have shown repeated disregard for the Separation of Powers which is at the core of our Constitution. For this reason alone I believe it is imperative that the House bring Articles of Impeachment against the President and Vice President. It does not matter if the Senate will convict, but if the House does not act, the precedents set by this outlaw Administration will threaten our constitutional democracy after Bush's term ends.
I was initially against the Iraq War. Then I wanted to support the war because we can not withdraw and leave such a sorry sorry state of affairs for the Iraqui people. Now that the Islamist and other insurgents are exacting a high toll on American, Coalition and Iraq people I beleive that we should end the war. The American people should then insist on Impeachment. Let's serve Bush/Cheney/Rowe up to the world community. Maybe then they can see the value of democracy and how it contends with maniacal Hitleresque Facist intentions of its leaders who stray from the "Rule of Law".
God(s) bless the country in which we are able to voice dichotomous viewpoints, and
(as yet) not be persecuted for our inviolable right to freedom-of-speech. What disturbs me is the prevailing sense of a paranoid America expressed in certain expositions, where the world is composed of rogue-nations bent on the demise of our fragile democracy (such as it remains).
Indeed, Semper fidelis, Semper paratus, Semper Vigilans, as one previous blogger felt the need to express, albeit with a different emphasis in their blog than this one accommodates.
Our country has been here before; Terrorism is our new Communism; our military-industrial complex needs new fuel provided by a continually mis-informed American populace to justify tax-dollars—your tax-dollars—funding federally authorized government contracts with private corporations to do the job of “nation-building” (i.e., economic-prospecting), and law-enforcement (i.e., military policing of populations the U.S.—in our war on terror—was meant to emancipate).
Sentiments have been expressed that America’s lack of historical perspective, particularly military historical perspective lends credence to why so many U.S. citizens are now led astray (by certain liberal-biased PBS news broadcasts), doubting our government, the purpose of our current war in Iraq (or on terrorism), and the perpetual whittling of our most basic civil liberties. Blame Congress for tying the hands of the Bush administration in the implementing of this war, and our military campaign is unable to proceed as ‘effectively’ in obliterating every village and settlement wherein the TERRORIST resides.
Blame Americans for a sorely lacking historical foundation—in our knowledge of U.S. history, classical history, and world histories seen from the perspectives of non-Western nations.
What we also lack is knowledge of People’s History. Simply funneling military feats and the manifestos of a few world leaders into chronological number-crunching in the classrooms of our educational bastions alienates those who are most affected, and ought to be most influential in history—WE THE PEOPLE.
So, yes--in essence, we are led astray by our historical blindness. Our youth emerge from secondary and university education ‘anesthetized’, as one poster commented, by empty entertainment, and mind-numbing news-splats posing as informative reporting; paralleling conveniently, our watered-down megalomania of corporate-funded national ‘news-esque’ sources (the Big Three shall go un-named, not to mention certain cable-aired news stations attempting in-depth reporting with the same finesse ‘I Love Lucy’ gives to tragic drama).
All opinions of Bill Moyer’s broadcast from 7/13/07 with Mr. Nichols and Mr. Fein should be encouraged, whether contrary to his ‘liberal-bias’, or commending his analysis of Constitutional civil liberties and the continued war in Iraq. What is disturbing, however, is the notion I fear popular America holds in believing such journalism--as portrayed by Mr. Moyers—paints a “one-sided analysis”, propagated by a liberal-run media, namely PBS.
Shame on America.
Shame on US—the citizens of the U.S.—for not realizing our apathy; for escaping into the concrete pathos of suburban strip-malls and pop-up, cookie-cutter neighborhoods so we can forget the trauma of the inner-city ghettos, and the diminishing of a once-proud, rural America.
We are so disenchanted with our own government we have forgotten the true nature of democracy is NOT your state representative, NOT Nancy Pelosi, nor Barak Obama. Democracy is US; yet, we liken civic duty nowadays to insipid jury duty, and maybe, voting once every four years. Where is the grassroots community activism; the global impact that starts locally?
What exactly is disturbing about the essence of Bill Moyer’s broadcast? So answered—is it truly the lack of “alternative viewpoints” counter to the over-arching liberal bias of his program? Or is it the notion that Mr. Moyers practices a form of journalism which is an endangered art equated with the likes of Walter Cronkite and (as another blogger alluded to) Edward R. Murrow.
Is the ‘disturbing’ notion reflected in the fact Bill Moyers dares portray a more complex truth regarding Terrorism, its causes, and our war against the said-threat of another attack?
Journalism once held to a tradition of acting in the public interest—the interest of WE THE PEOPLE. Perhaps what bothers some Americans is that Mr. Moyers portrays A TRUTH of this war, where the causes and consequences are not so simplistic/black & white/good versus evil--notions the mainstream media seems to propagate at the prompting of combined government-corporate sponsorship.
WE THE PEOPLE should not excuse the mistakes of our government in fighting this war, exempting them from public accountability in abuses of power, abroad and upon our own shores. If this translates to harsh-seeming critiques of our government policies, our own nation, then truth is often a harsh reality to bear as many a poet, scholar, historian and artist have reflected (and lends support to the continued necessity of the arts and humanities in our culture and civilization).
Tell me, then, where is the substance behind labeling good journalism as “knee-jerk” reactionary reporting if our nation--domestically and internationally--has in truth, been COMPLETELY innocent, honest, and forthcoming in adhering to the precedents of the Geneva Convention; conducting ourselves according to the international dictates governing the trying of war criminals; and perhaps most tellingly, NOT betraying OUR Constitution and the civil liberties set there-in, for all Americans—the documented and undocumented.
If there is another terrorist attack, the question will undoubtedly arise once again—Why us? It should be followed immediately by WHAT, with all our government has supposedly been doing in the last six years since September 11, 2001, did our government not realize in being unable to prevent another violent incident? Is the truth really that the Bush administration was operating with their hands tied behind their backs? That everyone overly concerned with civil liberties, believing to defeat terrorism one must understand the causes of terrorism, these concerned citizens, were in fact, social obstacles preventing the ultimate outcome of our victorious campaign against the Axis of Evil?
Perhaps the reality is a more bitter pill to swallow. The complexities of terrorism and its causes are not so easily defeated by tanks, guns, bombs and ammunition—wherein our own American troops become the perpetrators of crimes against civilians of developing nations. Civilians who generally have nothing to do with the causes of a conflict most of them wish would simply end, no matter who the victor is.
Maybe the most disturbing notion of all is that terrorism has always existed and will always exist—the price of a free, democratic society; not one, mind-you, that is militarily undefended, but a THINKING society that realizes our war has bred nothing but a hatred of American/Western ideals, and escalated the incidence of terrorism worldwide.
We speak of democracy in Baghdad, their ‘coalition government’, yet there is scant clean water to drink, let alone bathe in, any fuel or electricity with which to cook. At least under Saddam, for the average Iraqi, while such basic amenities might have been rationed, they were there. Under a dictator, you were able to walk to work on a street in the light of day and not be kidnapped or taken out by sniper-fire from ‘counter-insurgents’; you could go to the local market-square and not be worried you were victim to yet another car-bomb.
What have democracy and liberty promised by America given to Iraqi civilians when they are now subject to martial law (blamed on the counter-insurgents), military-policing, and the standard of living is worse for the average Iraqi under the ‘emancipators’ than it was under a dictator?
This is how we are fighting our ‘WAR’ on terrorism—by fighting against every common person who is guilty until innocent, and every common person is a terrorist.
Where would your sympathies lie, who would you support, if you were living under such conditions in Baghdad?
And what has this war done to our own civil, Constitutional legacy, asking US—WE THE PEOPLE—to abandon values and freedoms we once treasured as our most sacred sentiments inherited by our founding fathers (and I might add our founding mothers).
Bill Moyers and his journalism prompts people to think, to take a harsh look in the mirror of reality regarding the absolutist politics of an administration subtly paring away the checks and balances of our democratic republic.
If this is “knee-jerk, reactionary reporting and liberal bias”, then Mr. Moyers, I appeal to you, please keep the spark alive, and whack my knees with that reflex hammer.
Has anyone considered that Nancy Palosi would be next in line for the Presidency were Cheney and Bush Impeached? How should she go about instituting Articles of Impeachment?
Has anyone considered that Nancy Palosi would be next in line for the Presidency were Cheney and Bush Impeached? How should she go about instituting Articles of Impeachment?
"Why do my tax dollars got to pay for Moyers's rabidly partisan propoganda?
"Moyers is the one who need to be gotten rid of. Let him raise money for his intellectually tripe from the private sector. Why are government dollars spent on this drivel?
"Where is the conservative counterpoint to Moyers? Until PBS finds one, they need to stop with their partisan blather.
"Posted by: Mike | July 15, 2007 10:39 AM"
Not to be sarcastic, Mike, but PBS and Moyers presented the CONSERVATIVE view in the presence of Mr. Fein. Or didn't you notice?
We are sitting on the tracks. We hear the train coming, we feel the rumble under us, but, because up the track there is a bend and we can’t see the rest of the track, we continue to sit where we are. It’s nice where we are, we are comfortable. We have all we need, although the vibration coming through the rails is rattling the table where our snacks are set out. We are listening to the radio, and they are not saying anything about the train. Neither is the TV. We have a vague, uneasy feeling. It’s probably nothing, although the sound is almost deafening now. ...............................................................................Anonymous
The country and the world are in crisis; more so than ever before and partially due to the constant spread of misinformation at a rapid pace. In addition, a good % of our population is uneducated and unread; substituting religious and philosophical beliefs and/or facts for the truth. It almost can't be helped because everyone thinks they are right; as do I. Only if one voraciously reads, thinks, discusses and uses their intellect and sensibilities in an open-minded fashion to pry and discover the truth from the pile of facts, misinformation and outright lies … using other’s opinions, especially valued opinions of educated but also wise observers, will the truths become apparent. Bill Moyers is one of those people.
“Three things cannot long be hidden … the Sun, the Moon and the Truth.” .........................Buddha
We know that accurate and complete info is lacking from the media; but even if available, only a small percentage of people have the education, time and inclination to not only gather the facts but also to assimilate them. This is an unfortunate side effect of a people driven to accumulating as much as they can in as short a time as possible. It is the side effect of lack of education, reasoning ability and ability to make wise choices. It is the side effect of a people who wish to be entertained; to watch sports, not do sports; to live vicariously thru the lives of Desperate Housewives, Survivors, et al. Additionally, it is a side effect of pride; the inability to listen, learn and change; in other words, an inability to gather information and put it to use by transforming one’s beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, etc. based on the continuing flowage of bits and pieces of the truth. Some say this is human nature; I say this is human nature sans humility and wisdom.
The issues presented here by Bill Moyers et al are issues that for a long time have been expressed in "The Media" that most Americans never get to see : that "Media" is the alternative press of the internet and the many blogs therein. After reading a good many of the letters sent in, I am convinced a good percentage of the commentators have never been to sites such as Alternet, Truthout, or CommonDreams. This is as good a place as any to inform the people that there are alternatives to our largely controlled and stifled media. Check these out and get a free subscrition; become an informed member of the year 2007.
“If the sage would guide the people, he must serve with humility. If he would lead them, he must follow behind. In this way when the sage rules, the people will not feel oppressed; when he stands before them, they will not be harmed.” ..........................................................................Lau Tzu
The MO of our government and probably most governments is one which seeks to glorify, justify and intensify it’s actions based on what the largest portion of that smallest percentage of the population holding the greatest amount of power, influence and wealth desires; even if that happens to be only one person e.g. Pharaoh, and even if it is against the will of the other 90%+ of the population. A product of this is the falsification of the news, the facts and the cover ups themselves to the point of absurdity. WORD of the day … SPIN. Without the dissemination of “true facts” as opposed to “any and all facts”, no wonder people are bewildered. When our leaders have consented to the appeasement of that small minority of the power and wealth brokers to constantly lie about the “true facts”, then “all facts” take precedent, becoming equal. The same can be said for people’s opinions. When opinions are based on misconceptions, ignorance, pride, manipulation, propaganda, etc. and are put forth head to head with “true facts”, they, in many people’s eye, become equal. This is neither accurate nor appropriate; but try telling that to a belligerent or unsophisticated or uneducated Everyman; you will be rebuffed. Yes, the “truth will out”; but not before great tragedy may unfold.They, the religious right, call themselves Christians; a word that has all but lost it’s true meaning. If anyone is to be believed in all of this, I put my money on the One to whom the name deserves credit.
“Woe to you scribes and Pharisees (read religious fanatics) you frauds! … like whitewashed tombs, beautiful to look at … but inside full of filth and dead men’s bones. … hypocrisy and evil fill you within.”
.....................................................................Jesus Mt 23:27-28
Hats off to you Bill Moyers, Keith Olberman, Steven Colbert, Jon Stewert, Frank Rich, William R Pitt, and a good few others for continually having the guts to present to the public that the 'Emperor Has No Clothes'.
WE WILL REAP WHAT WE DESERVE IF WE DON'T ACT NOW.
PLEASE CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSPEOPLE AND DEMAND IMPEACHMENT; I HAVE AND I WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO; BE PERSISTENT AND ALSO KEEP EMAILING YOUR FRIENDS WITH BITS AND PIECES OF THE TRUTH.
What a tremendous work of journalism! To hear Mr. Fein speak so passionately and precisely about the crimes and precedents that Bush-Cheney have committed and set has awakened in me a new respect for conservatism. Back in the day, it took Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater to tell Mr. Nixon that the Nation was more important than politics. Thank you, Mr. Moyers, for your journalistic courage and acumen.
What very thought provoking and brilliant presentations were made by your guests ("Impeachment"). There was only one reference to which I take exception, i.e. the use of the word "king". Please ask your guests to consider replacing the word "king" with "autocrat".
Our slippage down the slope to an Imperial Presidency is at the opposite continiuum to democratic monarchy. All your JOURNAL preentations are first rate!The coverage on "Impeachment" must be among the very best!!! Thank You, Bill.
A most informative interview on the July 15, 2007 of The Journal on PBS.
Now I am concerned of retribution by Congress of not funding PBS, since the interview stated factually issues not favorable to Congress. God help us all!!!
I can't believe what I'm reading. The legislative branch should stop meddling? Bush should be impeached. He should've been impeached 2 years ago! Republicans are so hot to get Clinton for Lewinsky, yet when Bush lies to _take the country into war_, not a peep? I am astounded. He & Cheney belong in prison. And not a Club Fed, one of the Supermaxes they're building with such abandon for their lunatic drug war. That appears to be the solution to all opposition: smash it. Today's edition gets it exactly right. If Bush/Cheney aren't impeached, the country will leave the next President, & all those who follow, with incredible powers to suppress dissent at home, regardless of terrorists abroad, & that frigtens me more than Al-Qaeda.
Diane's comments are excellent. Interestingly, the link to Presidential Directive 51 no longer works. When I tried to search for it on the White House web page I got NO results.
I have never seen Mr. Moyer's show before, and I am not sure how I started watching it Friday. I must admit the subject matter gripped me and I was equally intrigued by the concept of a show in which the moderator surrendered the entire format to the guests. I have no way to judge if this is the norm but if so I am not certain as to why is it referred to as Mr. Moyer's journal.
Regarding the subject of the show, I found myself engaged and enraged at many of the views and ideas generated by the guests, and I am not a Bush fan. However, I am a huge fan of the U.S. Constitution and our system of governance.
I am especially a fan of the separation of powers concept. I think this is the main fail-safe that guards our Constitution from perversion and yet allows it to remain current. That said I think I can safely say that while many fingers for many reasons point to the executive branch for being responsible for the Iraq War, the President had NO vote in the matter. The responsibility for approving this war rest entirely with the legislative branch. If citizens are feeling betrayed and want to hold someone accountable then they need to point to the legislative branch.
Once a decision to go to war has been made the responsibility then shifts to the executive branch, the commander-in-chief. When I was in the army, all of our operations headquarters always had a wall with the pictures of the chain of command and I don't ever remember seeing a picture of the U.S. Congress. Rightfully so, while wars are fought in the interest of politics, wars should never be subject to the changing winds of legislative policy.
It is my hope and my prayer that no war will ever be popular and that this one will end soon but until it does end meddling by the legislative branch into matters of the executive branch only confuses the citizens and makes matters far worse.
Let this fantastic show be a catalyst for discussion, action and change! Donate to PBS and let them know you are doing this specifically out of gratitude for Bill’s show, and encourage more shows like this. Write your elected officials with links to Bill’s show. Educate everyone - your family, friends, neighbors, classmates; expand beyond “the choir”. Write the media demanding they do their job, although given the current control of the media, change may be difficult. It is largely the absence of media coverage of such important information that has allowed so many to be lulled into a stupor with “reality” shows, while the true reality, our country and our Constitution are being decimated. People cannot respond to that they don’t know about, so until the media does a better job, we must educate others. Write all the presidential candidates telling them to put country ahead of personal political ambitions. All their time, energy and money invested in campaigning could well be for nothing if we don’t first address and resolve our huge immediate crisis; we may well have NO elections in 2008 if this continues!
It is easy to feel hopeless since our government and much of media have failed us, but people power works! Just look back to a month ago; the ill-conceived Immigration Bill failed largely due to pressure from the people. The people-powered Civil Rights Movement of the 1960’s resulted in tremendous, unthinkable changes. Go to http://www.opensecrets.org for information on what companies contribute to who, and boycott those companies (ex., Chevron, Exxon Mobil, GlaxcoSmithKine) contributing to elected officials or to causes detrimental to this country, as well as TV and radio sponsors. If you’re invested in these companies, disinvest. Encourage your family, friends, neighbors, classmates to do the same. As in the Civil Rights bus boycotts, as in South Africa, change will more likely come through impacting these companies financially.
We have little time. In May 2007 bush signed Presidential Directive 51 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html, granting him the right to assume extraordinary powers under martial law. bush’s declining public support, Chertoff’s “gut feeling”, bush’s “feeling in his head”, and escalating problems with Iran lead me to a very bad feeling that the stage is being set to implement PD51 soon, especially troubling as we enter the presidential election cycle. This group has been planning for 20 years. It seems not likely they will give up all this power to Democrats in ‘08. This group met with no resistance over questionable elections in 2000 and 2004, what’s to stop them from calling the whole thing off in 2008 and letting bush carry on under martial law. Throughout history, in extraordinary times, the people have acted and brought about change. Can there be a more critical time than now?
This may be a repeat comment because I hit the enter key before I had a chance to edit my original comment. Sorry.
It seems that few have focused on the impeachment and other legal issues around the fall of the Twin Towers on 9/11. Physicists and engineers have written that the buildings could not have fallen the way they did unless they had demolition help.
Thank you for this episode. Thank you thank you thank you for having guests with the intestinal fortitude to point out that the Congress doesn't know what their constitutional role is. To have a solidly Republican guest decry what this Administration is doing to the constitution just adds credibility to the argument, that gives structure to an uneasy feeling many of us have in the pits of our stomachs. I plan to make as many of my friends and family aware of this episode as possible. THIS is journalism....not the pablum we get from the Disney-owned and Turner-owned outlets of big business. Keep up the good work.
My understanding is that President Bush went before the Congress to obtain permission to declare war against Iraq should it become necessary to do so after he had exhaused all attempts to avoid military action. Is this correct? If so, I have two questions:
1) What steps did he take to avoid war once Congress gave him authority.
2) Did our representatives actually vote to go to war, or did they vote to give Mr. Bush permission based on his promises to use permission as a last resort? The media gives the impression they actually voted for the war - can you clarify this point?
Use it to tell her what you think about holding impeachment hearings. She need to be reminded that she has a duty to support and defend the Constitution.
I read the transcript of the July 13 show. Excellent! In your closing comments you stated that perpetual war was sure to feed into the excess of power in the presidency and endanger the constitution.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Cheney speaking of perpetual war from the first days of office? I believe he had planned all along to use the "long war" and the resultant "war powers" as the key lever to force the changes on the government.
9-11 just gave his project the extra boost; they are still using it.
More and more I see George Bush as the useful fool in Cheney’s vendetta on the Constitution. Cheney has had years to conjure up this attack.
I am not sure Cheney was ever really a neo-con, but he saw how they could be useful to his goals. Cheney may not care that much how things go in Iraq, he needed a long war and he's got it.
I am really curious about how he views the future. Where was all this supposed to go? What was his motivation? Let's torture him and find out.
Thank you, Bill Moyers, for your program on impeachment. Your show moved me to action--writing letters to Nancy Pelosi and my representative as well as writing to my newspaper. I am afraid that on most occasions your good work is just "preaching to the choir." This time you inspired this choir member to sing a solo! Thank you for all you do.
OK here is the deal. Moyers is a foolish partisan pundit like Hannity. They only difference is that Moyers is liberal.
Fans of Moyers who consider him to be a "straight shooter" are like fans of Hannity who also think Hannity is a "straight shooter". The only differnce is that Moyers' fans are liberal.
Extremists on both sides of the aisle are the same, they just have different political viewpoints. They are all fools.
Why do my tax dollars got to pay for Moyers's rabidly partisan propoganda?
Moyers is the one who need to be gotten rid of. Let him raise money for his intellectually tripe from the private sector. Why are government dollars spent on this drivel?
Where is the conservative counterpoint to Moyers? Until PBS finds one, they need to stop with their partisan blather.
Bruce Fein and John Nichols are both scholars and patriots!
My suggestion is that people need to write their representatives demanding impeachment of Dick Cheney, not George Bush.
To be victorious in the people's fight to save the Constitution and the Republic, Cheney is the soft target. He will have much less support and is the kingpin in the attack on our Constitution. As noted by Mr Fein our current president is cerebrally challenged. Putting the hammer down on the VP would instill the fear of God in our happless leader. Of course, if the president failed to grasp the gravity of the impeachment of Cheney, and continued to act as a de facto Monarch, his impeachment would also be necessitated.
The Constitution is of greater importance than any person, or party. I have just finished reading this great document, and as Bruce Fein stated, impeachment is prominantly mentioned therein FIVE times.
People of the country need to turn off their "Reality Shows" and take in the Reality that our way of life and freedom are under attack. Contact your Representatives and tell them to transition from spin to spine! Also contact your Senators, they cant initiate impeachment proceedings, but they need to know the strength of the wind that is (or should be) blowing.
Thanks to Bill Moyers for airing the impeachment discussion with Fein and Nichols.
This first paragraph was taken from elsewhere on the site: In his recent article, "In Praise of Impeachment," Nichols argues "While the Constitution handed Congress the power to officially check such despotism, Jefferson and his colleagues fully expected the American people {emphasis added} to be the champions of the application of the rule of law to an errant executive."
The current situation is directly and immediately applicable. The populace should push the media --- all media --- to saturation coverage (e.g. this Moyers' program run and rerun everywhere) and the congress to action to build on the "seed" that's already planted, i.e., H.R. 333.
It is crystal clear that the media and congress were cowered into submission by the occurrence of September 11, 2001. There were a few righteous souls who were not intimidated by the politics of fear and demonization. However, for the most part, at best, they both, if truth be told, feared the reaction of a scared and manipulated populace. Of course, there were those who joined the team of fear mongers. After circa 6 years of this, it is only the unrelenting insistence of the populace which will move the process along the path which Fein and Nichols (and Kucinich) delineate.
McCain has it wrong, and Dems, America, can't let his framing stand.
McCain says its a fact that losing a war breaks a military harder than losing. He then says pulling out would be legislating defeat.
The truth is that the Iraq war is breaking our military. Morale is low because of multiple tours of duty, 15 month stays, extended tours with little notice, and the plain to see fact on the ground that we are accomplishing nothing.
Bush is breaking our military. Plain fact. Don't let _anyone_ tell you differently.
This show and these thoughtful, passionate, intelligent comments are SUCH a relief! Our country is not lost, after all. Here's one more extremely important thing we can do--Fire the Grid!
This is a worldwide meditation starting on July 17 at 11:11 Greenwich time, or 4:11 a.m.PDT, during which we focus on peace and healing the earth, channeling light from above. We all need to take part, to fire the grid of human consciousness and raise it to a higher level. One person with thoughts of love and peace can balance a hundred immersed in fear and anger. We really can change the world. So let's do it!
I have a bad feeling-the following is starting be make me nervous. There has been a dramatic increase by Bush & Cheney in the use of the words "terrorist" and Al-Queda-27 or 30 times was one count of the total usages of Al-Queda the other day by Bush. On July 11th, Sec. Chertoff of Homeland security announces this "Gut Feeling" statement. Now we have a THIRD Aircraft Battle Group on its way the the Middle East, Iran becomes agreeable to inspection, Are they scared?, in the Washington Times, they state Bush now saying "There's a lot of discussion about a scenario in which our troop posture would be to guard the territorial integrity of the country of Iraq"-so-we are now getting ready to move troops to the border of Iran?, Bush was killing time and distracting peoples attn. on the immigration bill-way?, lately, Bush and Chaney have risen to new heights of disregard and disrespect for the law, and he re-wrote the parameters of the requirements to declare martial law-the triggering event does not have to happen here and could be simply an act of nature or just a power grid failure as long as it has some effect on the united States. Mix this well without the pinch of Habeas Corpus and a hint of threat of "Enemy Combatant". Let use our imagination now with Blackwater, who Wikipedia refers to as both a security company AND a private military company.
So, what do we do? Continue to Blog each other until something happens? What the hell will we do?
WE THE PEOPLE...better do something!
I am concerned because I don't think we have much time-we are going in the right direction and gaining speed -just may run out of time. Suggestion Mr. Moyer? I will listen.
"If impeachment is brought against both Bush and Cheney together, and succeeds, Pelosi is president. How does this look? I can see why she wouldn't want to do this. In the end, she is right."
Oh, please! The time for considering "how things look" is w-a-a-y over.
It's about DOING THE RIGHT THING, AT ALL COSTS!
We are headed for a constitutional train wreck in this great country.
Now, *everyone* must begin the march.....individual letters to newspapers, congressional contingents and Speaker Pelosi, especially; democrat/republican/independent parties must bring forth resolutions, letters, town meetings....... this is what the founders *intended*, for pity's sake. Where is the fire? Where is the passion? Where is the spine?!?!?
Strolling around with raised eyebrows, puckered lips, steaming in intellectual rants about the state of the state to each other is wholly ineffective. It is time for "in-your-face" dialog with congress, demanding the process of impeachment begin. They obviously will not do it on their own. They must be reminded that the people expect it.
As for our standing in the world theater, holding Bush/Cheney accountable for treasonous acts might be the only appeasement.....but impeachment would go a long way toward improvement
It is time that the American people and those men and women who represent our wishes take our constitution and our country back. I believe we sent a clear message to the Congress and the President in November of 2006 that “we the people” want a change and we want it now; we expected that change to start then, not nine months later, not after we implement a “SURGE” that may or may not work, and surly not after we find out that apparently no one, or very few, of our elected representatives got the message. I am outraged at the direction our government has taken since George W. Bush and Dick Cheney came to power.
Something must be done to rein in this executive branch that daily thumbs its nose at our legislative branch and has turned our judicial branch into a powerless limb that has been diseased and weakened by political corruption and cronyism. It is time that our elected representatives listen to what the people have said. If impeachment of Dick Cheney, or George W. Bush is the only way to get the job done; then so be it!
It is down-right SCARY how
this administration has proceeded like a monarchy. Makes me wonder what are the true motives of this war that is probably creating more terrorists. Are BUSH BUDDIES
quietly siphoning off millions
in war monies that aren't recorded in the official budget ?
An earlier link had the wrong info for the Los Angeles Impeachment Center. Here is a link to that site as well as video from a July 12 Impeachment Forum. http://www.cotam.org/blog/archives/28
It’s almost been six years now my fellow Americans since 9/11, and no one mentions the central crime this administration perpetuated. Would we be in Iraq trying to police a civil war if it were not for the oil? The goal of the Cheney “energy task force” back in 2001 was to facilitate ideas into controlling Iraq’s massive oil reserves. A “New Pearl Harbor” was born. Did Bin Laden plant the explosives needed to bring the buildings down? I cannot understand how blind and mute honest hard working Americans are to the most brazen and vicious mass murder committed against its own citizens. Do your homework America and hang these bastards.
To Matt Tyson:
You and I have fallen victim to the BLOG. By that I mean that there are too many posts for us all to read them all. My first post on the 14th at 1205 am spoke about the show and my fears that the American people are too sated to demand action and our legislators are too tied to thier careers and the special interest money to move. Then when I came back and reviewed the posts I saw posts in two flavors: the great "Thank you" posts and the screaming vitrolic "your a moron" posts (very few).
I don't think we should all agree. I think we should, however, be able to disagree with out getting nasty about it.
In the mean time, I believe that impeachment hearings will reign in the Office of the President and will serve to clear the air before the next election circus.
It would be interesting for Lee Partide to tell us exactly what facts and or claims from Friday's impeachment show need refuting. Seems like the straw man argument to me. Let's accuse the media of bias when the Left is finally given the chance to bring out sound points. Never mind years of right wing blather by the likes of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbau, et al.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE .... THE MOST POWERFUL , MEANINGFULL AND PROMISING DISCUSSION SINCE 9-11. HOW CAN WE PROMOTE DEMOCRACY ABROAD, WHILE WE DESTROY OURS AT HOME ? IF WE TURN OUR CONSTITUTION UPSIDE DOWN IN ORDER TO PREVENT FUTURE TERRORIST ACTS, THEN THE TERRORIST HAVE ALREADY WON, GAME - OVER. THIS SHOW SHOULD BE GIFT WRAPPED AND DELIVERED TO EVERY AMERICAN, AT THE VERY LEAST, EVERY CONGRESSMAN. THANK-YOU ... MR. MOYERS...!!!!
The Pelosi Congress is struggling to make its mark with legislation, when the real mark that needs made is to ensure that monarchical behavior by a President will not be tolerated.
Unless there is serious pushback to the Bush and Cheney administration through impeachment, Pelosi and the Democrats will be viewed as weaklings deserving to have sand kicked in their face.
Except that they have allowed the sand to really be kicked in the people's face.
Great program, although I am disappointed that Dennis Kucinich (who introduced articles of impeachment agains Cheney) wasn't mentioned once.
Also, I want to point out that the last comment by Lee Patride laments the one-sidededness of Bill Moyers and likens it to irrationality, yet gives not one example of it.
One sided and misleading. Bill Moyers is a good presenter and very smooth, but what is frightening is the power he and the media exercise by presenting information that neglects so many facts, and does not present rebuttal by the myriad others who can refute claims made on this show, and point out their dangers. I am NO Bush fan, but your show edges on apalling by misrepresentations. One can see how far this has gone by reading how many people in media (and thus among the population) compare Bush to such people as Hitler. That kind of extremism presented under the guise of objective journalism is what is MOST scarey in our culture. Over and over since "The Power of Myth" I have watched Moyers tilt more and more to one-sidedness..... His programs aim to convince to a certain point of view by neglecting other valid views. And look how many cheer this on, not wanting the full story to be presented! Yes I fear for my country... via this kind of media.
Mr. Moyers,
It's a terrible feeling to know the wrong doing and the not doing of all the "leaders" we elected and at the same time see how lawless and tolerant persecution has become. But at the end I can see the small beam of hope, thanks to incredible people like you and all the great reporters at PBS. Thank you for giving us truth.
Impeaching is the process by which the Constitution is preserved for our republic.
Impeaching Bush and Cheney would not only set straight that a dictator is not acceplable, but also would tell the world that Americans do not agree with their war and tactics. We need a new reputation in the world view to re-establish USA as a compassionate, logical democracy, and not a dictatorship run by tyrants.
_________________
I really appreciated your program and guests last evening. It was nice to have experts explain what Impeachment is and how it works to make our democracy stronger. Please re-air this program. It is important that people have an opportunity to see it.
Each of us needs to send a letter to our representatives and to the Speaker demanding they start the impeachment process of both Vice President Cheney and President Bush. It is important to remind Congress that they are a separate, equal branch of government and it is time to take back the power that constitutionally resides with them as an institution.
This is not a partisan issue, as a matter of fact the Democrats don't seem to know what to do and the media is still asleep at the wheel.
Thank you so much for this program. I sent the link on the impeachment program to the house judiciary committee. We can only hope that some courageous and patriotic representatives will act soon.
Kucinich, Conyers, et. al. aside, the reason that the House leadership will not act is the old dog that has haunted democrats for almost two generations: "weak on national defense". Bush has made himself unimpeachable so long as there is one U.S. soldier in harms way in Iraq. If the democrats were to move in on Bush, he would immediately and speciously charge that they have the same agenda as Al-Queda: target our leaders. Bush continues to position himself as the St. George of the New World. He stands as our only hedge against the tide of Islamic Fundamentalism. So sad it is that he is sacrificing the treasury of our nation: the lives of our youth and for those who are fortunate enough to keep their lives, the untold debts that continue to accumulate. Truely reprehensible.
THANK YOU! It was wonderful to hear such an intelligent, knowledgeable discussion of impeachment. While we may know that things are going wrong in this country, we haven't the education to know exactly what the legal requirements are for the impeachment that must happen. In order to start to regain our standing in this world, we must show the world that we fully reject the practices of this regime. Thank you again for what is one of the best shows we have seen on television in years.
I watched last nights show with glee. Finally someone on television was articulating what I have been thinking. This morning, when I examined the blogs, I found no mention of "impeachment." Maybe it is too soon for Kos and Arianna to get their hands around such a concept.
Many of the comments are blaming Nancy Pelosi for not bringing impeachment proceedings. Could it be that in the Senate where they would need at least 60 votes to move for impeachment, that there are 51 Democrats vs 49 Republicans. Even if 100% of the Democrats voted in favor, that would not be enough votes. The Republicans would most likely do as they did with the bill to bring home the troops. It is likely they would stonewall and vote in a bloc against impeachment. Think about it before you blame Ms. Pelosi. Why not blame the Republicans for allowing the Bush Administration to run roughshod over the Constitution for 6 years?
As others, I was confused by the change in the program title from, what was it, something like "The Impeachment Debate" to "The War Debate"(???)! I couldn't figure out where the program went to. It must frustrate Bill Moyers no end when the pansies at PBS reconstruct his shows. Now, it appears because this show has created such a whirlwind of comment they have orders to monkey wrench this thing. Throw it off track.
I will be attending the Arizona State Committee of the Democratic Party meeting next month. We will be voting on an impeachment resolution crafted by our local Progressive Democrats, the Sonora Progressives. Nancy, impeachment is back on the table, baby!
Regarding the piece on impeachment: your two guests did not carry their analysis far enough. They should have traced the consequences of several possible scenarios. If impeachment is brought against Bush first, and succeeds, Cheney is president. Not a good outcome. If impeachment is brought against both Bush and Cheney together, and succeeds, Pelosi is president. How does this look? I can see why she wouldn't want to do this. If Cheney is impeached first, Bush can appoint a new vice-president. He may appoint one of the current candidates for the Republican nomination for president. He may choose Romney. This would give him an advantage of incumbency (altho' it didn't help Rockefeller) which would all but guarantee his victory over any Democratic candidate. Time is very short to start impeachement proceedings. They would take more than a year. It would serve no purpose because it is unlikely, given Bush's character (or lack of it) he wouldn't be chastened by the experience nor would he understand the principles behind it. In the end, Pelosi is right.
At least there are two people of committment and intelligence still in Washington.
While I would favor indictment and incarceration in one of our infamous secret presons for
Cheney and Bush, Mssrs. Fein and Nichels made an eloquent and compelling case for Impeachment.
Regarding the piece on impeachment: your two guests did not carry their analysis far enough. They should have traced the consequences of several possible scenarios. If impeachment is brought against Bush first, and succeeds, Cheney is president. Not a good outcome. If impeachment is brought against both Bush and Cheney together, and succeeds, Pelosi is president. How does this look? I can see why she wouldn't want to do this. If Cheney is impeached first, Bush can appoint a new vice-president. He may appoint one of the current candidates for the Republican nomination for president. He may choose Romney. This would give him an advantage of incumbency (altho' it didn't help Rockefeller) which would all but guarantee his victory over any Democratic candidate. Time is very short to start impeachement proceedings. They would take more than a year. It would serve no purpose because it is unlikely, given Bush's character (or lack of it) he wouldn't be chastened by the experience nor would he understand the principles behind it. In the end, Pelosi is right.
Dear Bill Moyers:
Congratulations! Once again you have brought a very timely and important subject to the attention of the American Public in a very professional way. The two people you had as guests to discuss the subject of impeaching the members of the present administration were extremely knowledgeable and professional in their discussion of the issues. I have always had a great respect for you and the way you bring important issues to the attention on all Americans (at least those willing to watch something worth while and not the typical sitcom junk). You and the two experts on this subject were able to discuss the subject in a very level headed, thoughtful way instead of the spiteful, arrogant, ignorant rantings usually so representative of the typical right wing talking heads to be seen and heard on right wing radio and tv venues. Thanks for airing this very important subject at this time. I am sure that this will get a lot of people to thinking and perhaps even supporting the impeachment of some very; bad, incompetent, arrogant members of this administration.
Thanks for the very excellent show. I agree, however, with many other commenters, that you did not mention people like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul, both whom I consider true statesmen. If you examine Ron Paul, you will find that he is a true constitutionalist and defender of our freedom. I would very much like to see him on your show very soon. I have, over the past year, become more and more alarmed at what I have learned about our government and its complete sellout to corporatism and greed. Of course, if you study history, you can see that the federal reserve system is a scam of immense proportions and deserves nothing less than complete abolishment. Once you restore sound monetary policy to a nation, amazing things are once again possible as the reigns of the few power brokers who really run the show are handed back to the people.
I don't want to imagine how I would be handling the current political situation without your insightful, brave, honest commentary and interviews. Alas, your show is broadcast in Asheville at 11 PM - way past my bedtime. I stay up anyway, and then can't fall asleep, I am so wrought up about what should be obvious to people in power and what they ought to be talking about. Please, please, please keep doing what you're doing, in the face of what must be difficult obstacles. Our collective soul and our democracy is at stake.
It was indeed a privelege to view and absorb the viscerally exciting(for me) and courageous discourse presented last night(July 13) on Bill Moyers Journal on PBS! This broadcast ,in my opinion, deserves a place of honor alongside the likes of the now legendary Edward R. Murrow anti-McCarthyism reports and live debates of the 1950's. No guilty party(again, in my opinion) was spared objective criticism and detailed analysis by both Bruce Fein and John Nichols. I especially relished the very educational and refreshingly "eye opening" scathing of our present day Congressional representatives who have for a very long time been addicted to their very own fear of political and, even worse, mainstream media controlled attack from dumbed down flagwavers who have lost all understanding of the basic elements of our founding fathers' principles for a just and safe society. The ease and apparent joy that Mr. Moyers oozed (as he almost invisibly took on an intelligent, open minded role as "devil's advocate" as a means of providing a catalyst for the almost spontaneously combustible rapid fire deliverance by these two remarkably insightful and dedicated TRUE PATRIOTS) was so full of the true essence of free speech journalism and genuine courage against the "spooks" prying into our individual rights as concerned and truly informed Americans!. For me, it was stamped in fresh words into my political consciousness by Mr. Nichols as he, with a great little smile that let us know he knew he was about to say something of EXTREME importance, told Mr. Moyers(or the "role" he was assuming at that moment) that the Constitutional Crisis is happening NOW! and does NOT BEGIN with impeachment proceedings. This sadly obvious fact can be morally, legally, and constitutionally redressed and bound in renewed precedent for the now threatened future of a balanced democratic republic based on our founding principles of government FOR and BY the PEOPLE by the very process of a passionate pursuance of the truth behind the dark secrets in the Executive Branch and the reclaiming of the integrity of Congressional oversight by those who have been sent to do just that by the American voters(most of us, I hope). This broadcast on Bill Moyers' Journal should be included in both high school and college level courses in all areas of study that touch upon American history, society, political currents, and most of all, True patriotic activism. The subject matter and its treatment last night hopefully will bring desparately needed real attention to our MOST dangerous present day crisis: the permanent shifting of the governance of our way of living and a complete collapse of our position as a country that at least continues to "try to get it right" to the "knee-jerk" insanity of our post "911" society. Finally, Mr. Cheney, as the quintessential "corruptor" of the entire picture, and Mr. Bush, as the willing puppet for fringe and not so fringe social interest groups(from multi-national corporations to religious zealots not unlike the radical and violent Islamist groups), along with the other key members of this self annointed all-powerful government(including some members of Congress) MUST be openly exposed in full public view and prosecuted in courts if necessary, if we are to redirect our nation and regain some true national security in the face of a world in serious and troubling change.
A bad penny always returns. Thus I wish to add a postscript after reading the other comments. Although the points your guests made were strong and more than valid, there was little (except in your wrapup mention (if any) about the war, the most egregious war crime since... (fill in Vietnam, Pol Pot, Darfur, Nazi Germany, take your choice of the first hundred listings. In an earlier book when Robert Bly and I co-founded American Writers Against the Vietnam War, I wrote a line in a poem dedicated to Senator Wayne Morse (one of the very few who spoke up against the war) that The New York Times quoted: "Some of us were born in the wrong land to become war criminals." I would hate to have to change my assertion in that statement. Evidently Bush, Cheney, and Cabal still think they can turn us into complicit war criminals. May the day soon come when the Nuremburg rules will be used to bring them to justice. But first the American people will have to reject them one hundred percent and reinstate their (our) integrity.
David Ray
It's time for revolution. This government has usurped the power of "We the People" and has forgotten our noble roots. Liars and thieves must no longer rule. By the people, for the people? Not any more. Thank you Bill Moyers
I am disturbed that my message of this morning expressing my admiration for last night’s program and my strong desire to move forward on Impeachment was evidently blocked. Perhaps I inadvertently violated one of your rules? Was it by chance my mentioning my anti-war book or giving my web name??? Is poetry a verboten genre, as it is in most of the media?
I’d appreciate clarification.
THE SCORECARD
As if he owns a baseball team
our president often checks
what he calls his Scorecard,
how many of his guys --
meaning our team -- get killed
daily and how many of their
guys have been blown to ash
in the previous twenty four hours.
We’ve paid a lot for our tickets
to this game, the play extended
for over four years already.
And now I hold a new scorecard,
the poll of how many Americans
are in favor of impeaching Bush
and how many are for impeaching
Cheney -- and how many, to get
it over with, are for impeaching
both, as if they are as one.
I am not, however, holding my breath.
A LIGHTER VERSION
I am old enough to recall Edgar Bergen
and his puppet Charlie McCarthy
who sat on his knee, and although I think
of George Bush and Dick Cheney
as a team like Charlie and Edgar
I know that the wooden puppet Pinocchio
bears an even more accurate resemblance
as their two noses grow longer and longer
with each lie they tell -- noses that any day
may reach to the moon, and farther.
My reaction is something said before. I got this from Wikipedia.
"In Sixteen Hundred and Forty-Eight
When England suffered the pains of state
The Roundheads lay siege to Colchester town
Where the King's men still fought for the crown
There One-Eyed Thompson stood on the wall
A gunner of deadliest aim of all
From St. Mary's Tower his cannon he fired
Humpty-Dumpty was its name... "
And we know the rest.
"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again"
You've made me glad to be an American again. I was feeling ashamed of it. I was feeling that I didn't care to travel. I was feeling very sad and disheartened. Thank you for your courage and your intelligence. Thank you for putting the constitution in focus. Thank the founding fathers for our democracy. Long may it live with good men and women keeping truth in their sights. Thank you, Bill Moyers.
My reaction is something said before. I got this from Wikipedia.
"In Sixteen Hundred and Forty-Eight
When England suffered the pains of state
The Roundheads lay siege to Colchester town
Where the King's men still fought for the crown
There One-Eyed Thompson stood on the wall
A gunner of deadliest aim of all
From St. Mary's Tower his cannon he fired
Humpty-Dumpty was its name... "
And we know the rest.
"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again"
Why did the heading for this show change from 'Impeachment' to 'The War Debate'? anyway...
Thank you for your show on IMPEACHMENT. It was bold, informative and courageous of you, and long overdue.
It was, however, a SHOCKING OMISSION THAT YOU DID NOT MENTION ONCE THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT THAT HAVE 15 CONGRESS MEMBERS AND A SENATE MEMBER, BARBARA BOXER, behind them.
YOU DID NOT MENTION ONCE DENNIS KUCINICH AND HIS ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT, WHO IS THE CONGRESSMAN OF STRENGTH AND COURAGE who has been standing up and fighting for our Constitution.
YOU DID NOT MENTION ONCE JOHN CONYERS AND HIS ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT, who was on national TV last weekend discussing it.
SIR, I DEMAND YOU MENTION THESE ON YOUR NEXT SHOW, OR KINDLY STEP DOWN YOURSELF.
I can't believe we aren't having a revolution. We would be, except for the fact that the media is also controlled by rich corporate interests, in addition to Congress. Bush and his corporate cohorts stole the last two elections, destroyed the separation of church and state, got us into trillions of dollars of debt, started a war on false pretenses, and were probably behind 9/11. Not to mention vouchers, the undermining of women's rights, persecutions of gays, faith-based initiatives, packing the Supreme Court with evangelical fundamentalist fascists, and the incorporation of the Patriot Act. The American people know what is going on; they just have nowhere to turn because their legislators have abandoned them for corporate bribes. Since the only thing these people understand is profit, probably the only way to stop them will be through boycotts. Demonstrations will probably not be reported, because the media is bought in the same sense that Congress is bought. Therefore, the average person's only recourses will be speaking out with our voices and where we put our money. It's really insulting that these people think that all they have to do is talk about "Jesus" and "terror" and everyone will just roll over and let them do what they want.
I second Rev. Lynn White's comments and consternation. Dennis Kucinich has brought articles of impeachment to the House. As of last week, he has mustered only 12 -- a measly 12! -- co-sponsors (one of whom, I'm proud to say, is my own Congressman, Sam Farr).
It is time for the press -- mainstream and alternative -- to wake up to the fact that there ARE courageous people in Congress supporting the very things they claim are needed in our government. Unless these heroes get coverage, their work goes largely for naught.
Millions of Americans have been awaiting this show for years, as I wrote here with gratitude shortly before it began last night. Based on the flood of comments now in place -- both on this thread and spilling over onto the poll page and others -- it certainly did provide the validation and hope that I expected.
It's as if we've gathered 'round a campfire (or, more suitably for the season, a huge air-conditioning vent), where at last we can feel welcome and comfort, instead of anger and despair.
Especially moving are the remarks from those who've thought themselves alone -- and from those who hadn't *quite* put it all together yet, but now see and even have joined in taking action.
I second the appeals made by a couple of other viewers for you to dig into the terrifying National Security Directives NSPD 51 and HSPD-20, by which Shrub empowered himself to declare martial law and become permanent dictator in an instant, on any pretext of emergency. He also set himself up last year to use our troops against us on American soil, by wrenching control of the National Guard away from state governors (over their protests). And what about all those new concentration camps Halliburton built, for which there's been no explanation?
Now may our very last chance to save ourselves via impeachment, before some convenient attack, hurricane or epidemic puts paid to the possibility.
Even if there weren't also a realistic chance of martial law and the utter demise of democracy, circumstances are such that our Constitution mandates impeachment for the crimes already committed by this administration. It isn't a choice; it's an obligation.
EXCELLENT PROGRAM! You are to be commended (as usual) for bringing this discussion to the fore.
I do have one word of critique, however. I remain completely baffled as to WHY the vision, hard work, and unique statesmanship of REP. DENNIS KUCINICH continues to remain ~invisible~ on programs such as The Journal. How can you have a program devoted to Impeachment, bemoan the lack of Congressional leadership, and yet fail to even mention Kucinich's Resolution to Impeach??? It's as bad as in 2004, when everyone in the media, including PBS, spoke of Dean as "the Peace Candidate", when Dennis was the only TRUE Peace Candidate, having voted AGAINST the Iraq war, against the Patriot Act, and against everything the Bushites have done to errode our Constitution. He is the ONLY Presidential Candidate who has understood the necessity of our getting out of Iraq -- something he called for in 2004. The only one with a plan for Universal Health Care (CARE, not "coverage"). The only one calling for environmental responsibility that supports the Kyoto Protocols. The only one who would remove the US from NAFTA and the WTO. And on and on. And yet, it's like he doesn't exist. Little wonder our Republic flounders, when the only person with any vision at all can't get a hearing, even from the likes of PBS and The Journal. I suggest any and all of your viewers who want to support Impeachment, check out Dennis Kucinich's website, where you may discover that many of your other concerns ARE, in fact, being addressed. They just aren't worthy of 'media attention'.
I wonder to myself...."How can they NOT know?" -- about the Impeachment Resolution for example. Or if they (Moyers, Lehrer, etc) DO know, why would they choose to ignore the one person who is standing up for what they SAY they want???? It remains beyond my comprehension.
It's like the Congress and Iraq. I knew, as did many of my fellow Citizens, long before invasion that Bush et al were lying through their teeth with every breath, that there were no WMDs, that AlQaeda hated Saddam almost as much as they hated us because he was a "secularist" and not an Islamic radical. Why did not the people supposedly entrusted with the governance of this country not understand AT LEAST as much about the Truth as I, a 'mere citizen', did??? I have in my possession a letter I wrote to every Senator in 2002, before the invasion, ennumerating all the reasons why we should NOT pursue wasr in Iraq and elucidating virtually a prescient picture of things as they are today which could be expected in the aftermath. WHY, I asked/ask myself, can't they see and understand what I see so clearly and understand so thoroughly????????? It remains my quandry. It is true also of the impeachment question.
It is SO obvious! These people are CRIMINALS, every last one of them. They deserve not only to be impeached for the good of the Republic, but to be indicted and imprisoned (a new use for Guantanamo perhaps?) for the good of their own souls -- AND the soul of the Nation.
Bill Moyers, thank you again and again for remaining true to your prophetic calling. How about if all supporters of this important program made a contribution directly to you to support getting a DVD of this program into the hands of every Senator and Representative in the US Congress? Can you tell us how to do that???
YOu censored my previous comment. Shame on Moyers, Nichols, and Fein for not mentioning Dennis Kucinich's impeachment effort. This was a grave disservice to Mr. Kucinich and to your viewers.
Thank you, Bill Moyers for providing us with the insights of John Nichols and Bruce Fein about the necessity for Congress to begin the impeachment process to prevent a Constitutional crisis, not to start one. Bush and Cheney want that crisis and are baiting Congress every day. Nancy Pelosi has to do her job. Elected officials are Americans first, and a bi-partisan effort is called for. We are waiting for statesmen and women to stand up and do the most important job of their lives:preserve the Republic from despots.
John Nichols was exactly right that impeachment is a solution to a constitutional crisis, which is why the misguided ideologues that voted to impeach Bill Clinton had clear political motivations.
Once he owned up to the little white lie, the "crisis" was over.
The witch-hunt that ensued was payback for Watergate and a blatant attempt to subvert the will of the people and grab power through any means.
Bravo, as always, to Mr. Moyers for continuing to be one of the very few voices in mass media journalism who dare to question, examine, think critically, educate, and speak truth to power. (Fred Friendly is smiling down on you for the way you handled the discussion).
Mr. Moyers, you exemplify the essence of responsibilities citizens in a democracy must embrace in order to play a role in ensuring that this political experiment endures.
And a special tip-of-the hat for keeping alive that moment in this past week's Senate hearings when we heard about the "oath to the President" rather than to the Constitution. It was a jewel of a moment.
Additionally, Bruce Fein deserves great admiration and attention for his willingness to place country over political party.
As always, Mr. Nichols remains one of the most insightful and important voices today.
Some day, someone will connect all the dots -- from the 2000 election to now. I was present at the 2000 debacle; saw the ballots while participating in the national media's ballot study; and observed and wrote about the propaganda machine that led to what history will one day understand was a coup d'etat.
At that moment, the mass media fell into a deep pit of cognitive dissonance from which it cannot recover. It parroted the propaganda then, and the parroting has spiraled out of control and led the media onto a Mobius strip dilemma: any return to journalistic integrity would have to be prefaced by an admission of the responsibility the mass media shared in the election debacle, the race to war, and all that has unfolded as a result.
Sadly, this will not happen.
My concern grows every day about the mass media's power to influence the 2008 election. Its coverage, so far, demonstrates that it has not learned the lessons of the past six years.
How can the American people be expected to learn what's been going on when, relatively, so few watch Moyers, C-Span, Olberman, Amy Goodman ...
It is up to those of use who have not been lulled into apathy and who do not base our attitudes and opinion on the filtered soundbites of the mainstream media -- to raise our voices and help spread the word about the information being transmitted by Bill Moyers.
A very big thank you to all the program's underwriters for your courage.
These days, the US is in a totally dysfunctional state! American citizens have been deliberately lied to and deceived by the current administration (in office illegally), so that the war machinery (what Eisenhower called the military/industrial complex) can make billions on an illegal war for supposed oil profits. Of course, there are none in a country torn by civil war. There are more than $600 billion US taxpayer dollars to kill innocent women and children half a world away, but no money for US citizens who are desperately tying to recover from the utter chaos of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina and the 1-million acre October 2003 southern California Firestorm. No money for social services; no money for health care; no money for the elderly; no money for education. For killing yes; for everything else: no.
When are those in charge going to be held accountable? When are we going to really wake up? Impeachment is the Constitutional remedy.
Further, the separation of church and state has been dramatically erroded as are the checks and balances, supposedly guaranteed by our beleaguered Constitution. If those in charge are not held accountable, the repercussions are staggering for all of us.
Then, we no longer have a country of "we the people..."
This is not the country in which I grew up.
Thank you Bill Moyers, for continuing to report what few others are!
Hopefully the Republicans will reconsider having their National Convention 2008 in Florida, instead of St. Paul Minnesota. http://sicko-citystpaul.blogspot.com
Government must be held accountable. Alcee Hastings was Inpeached as a Judge?
I add my voice to this crowd of viewers who supported your discussion with Bruce Fein and John Nichols. I was metaphorically bowled over by the program. Immediately after it aired last night I sent e-mails to my congressional delegation (Mikulski, Cardin, Gilchrest) and to Nancy Pelosi. (I heard Bruce Fein again today being interviewed on WTOP-FM in Washington.) Thank you for all you do.
I have some idea about why this otherwise wonderful program left out Kucinich's impeachment bill. I think that even the most thoughtful and considerate journalists and scholars like Moyers, Nichols and Fein absorb the media's own cynicism around candidates like Kucinich or, on the Republican side, Ron Paul who do in fact speak from a place of deep conviction and intellectual scholarship that Fein alluded to. The mainstream media decides for us who our electable candidates are, casting off others as "unelectable" because they are too short or their ears stick out too much, but usually underneath the critique is the idea that the candidate is too idealistic and would never be elected by, what, our unidealistic populace? To give a case in point, in one of the first Republican presidential debates, Ron Paul spoke the unspeakable truth that our policies abroad might have had something to do with 9/11. Not only did the other candidates repudiate him altogether, the pundits covering him said things like "he's out of the race," or "he's really out there." Meanwhile, they were running a poll at the bottom of the screen as to who viewers preferred as their candidate--he won! The pundit didn't know how to explain it and created a ridiculous theory that Paul had rigged it somehow, with a battalion of "voters" standing by to cast votes for him like for American Idol. This is exactly how the media "makes" idealistic, intellectual candidates "unelectable," both by declaring it so and then completely ignoring any facts to the contrary. This has dogged Kucinich since the beginning. He gets made fun of even by the likes of John Stewart and Bill Maher, both of whom are completely in line with his politics. The media has made him so invisible that even Bill Moyers and John Nichols, staunch good-hearted liberals, do not "count" him when they talk about people standing up to Pelosi with all the courage of their convictions. It's very important for people like Moyers to recognize when and where they have been blinded by the media's powerful biases (e.g. it may really be that Kucinich is too strange looking for the media to take him seriously), and to correct for it by placing these folks (including Ron Paul) front and center stage. They need all the help they can get--particularly since they don't come in the tall, dark, moneyed and handsome package that the mainstream media has imposed upon their definition of "electable." We must all do everything we can to correct for this trend and Moyers is a Godsend...but the number of people who've responded with beffudlement about this major oversight in last night's program is a testament to how incredibly powerful media cynicism is. Thank you, gentlemen, for your wonderful work and discussion nonetheless. I will pass it around to everyone I know.
Bush and Cheney think and act like LAWLESS COWBOYS—over-reaching, making their own rules, even hunting and shooting without a license—and we need to rein them in PRONTO. It is time we demand BALANCE OF POWER action by our representatives! As John and Bruce disclosed, IMPEACHMENT is a provision our founding fathers created for use in times like today. Thanks Bill Moyer for your program. I really hope we can get some action. Most all of my acquaintances are feed up with Washington DC. For a change, it would be nice to have work place lunch conversations about what’s going right with our government; because, it’s been a daily hour of depression for the last several years.
It would be nice to replay this program often. Thanks again!!!
I already sent an e-mail but wanted to ask, since I missed the show on impeachment, if there is any way to purchase it in VHS or DVD? Or will it be re-broadcast?
Anyone's help would be appreciated.
This is only the true show that I really respect.
Thanks.
Bob
silversurf@thegrid.net
Early in 2003 when GWB & Co. were marketing the invasion of Iraq in the media, I was alarmed and dismayed at the seeming silence from those with the "microphone"(reporters and media journalists) to intelligently inspect and investigate the claims being made and debate them. It seemed a bad idea back then, and it's proven to be the opening of "Pandora's Box" that I and so many others feared would happen. Yes, others with legislative power (Congress)needed to be likewise highly engaged and focused on the potentially grave consequences of force against Iraq in lieu of smoking out radical Saudi sons that attack America. Thank you for focusing on impeachment and bringing it out in a discussion format that citizens can hear and view without all the political noise that drowns out the real ramifications of other-agenda-driven leadership at the cost of American lives, values and so much more. Let's postpone the campaigning and devote air-time to getting our government back on track.
Mr. Moyers, Thank you for having John Nichols and Bruce Fein, two of the most eloquent spokesman on this issue. Impeachment and removal of President Bush and VP Cheney
I am disappoint of leader of Democrats Senators
President’s Reason turned to Reasons
I believe there was no connection between Iraq “Saddam” with 9/11 at all Every body knew that!
I want to ask Republican and Democrat and white house.
Make me to understand, which one of the subject in below , was Reason :
1- Relation with Bel laden
Now Reason going to be plural!
2- Weapon Mass distraction
3- Saddam is alive and he interfering with his people.
4- Terrorist
5- Algaedeh
6- Democracy
7- Protect America
Now:
8- Human right,
9 - Peace in Iraq and Middle East
10 - Because we love them
11 - May be OIL or occupation
12- Training
13- To interfere: Iran and Syria, Pakistan
14- God chosen Bush for destroy Iraq and kill Iraqis
Thank you
Thank you and your guests for being courageous and bringing the "i" word into the public discussion. Maybe now we can have that national conversation, which is long overdue.
I always thought we made a mistake in not pursuing impeachment during Iran-contra. Was then vice-president George H.W. Bush really out of the loop? Hard to believe. Some of those same players are now involved in the antics of the current administration. Your guests made a good point–this isn't just about Bush/Cheney, it's about future presidents and what the precedent of inaction now will mean later.
Impeachment hearings will help educate the American people about what has happened and what should not happen, if we are serious about protecting and defending our Constitution. We'll get to hear the pros and cons and get a better sense of who is representing us and how they think. That will be healthy for our democracy. I feel better already! Beginning that process doesn't have to result in a removal from office. Getting information out to the public is a first and important step.
If we are going to continue this experiment called democracy, we need to look honestly at what has happened during this administration and not let the bullies and abusive individuals silence or stop us. They'll try. That's how this administration and its allies have often operated and will continue to do so as long as we let them.
I too will be sharing links to this program with many people I know and will be writing again on the impeachment topic to my Congressman, Rep. Conyers and Pelosi among others
Last night's episode is the reason why I
no longer contribute to my local PBS
station. Where is the balance? The highly estimable Mr. Moyers didn't even
have the decency to have
as a quest someone presenting an opposing viewpoint, but instead two
semi whacked out rugbiters parroting
the hard left mantra. This is journalistic integrity? PBS has long been accused of leftist slanting in its
programming, and last night's episode
only solidified that belief. Until PBS
has some counter programming to balance that insufferably sanctimonious Mr. Moyers, my contributions stay in my poxket.
Wow! What a flood of self congratulations. Too, bad for you all that this impeachment stuff is a joke and a distraction. Listen folks, there is real work to do as the current group of pols we have, both Demos and Repugs, are clearly not up to the job.
These fuzzy headed liberal flights of fancy are merely a distraction in a time of danger. The infighting merely gives our enemies aid and comfort whether they are hiding in Pakistan or in a religious school in England or Patterson NJ. This is a world war against us. We need leadership that will bring the war to them. We need more troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and will probably need to take out the regimes in Iran and Syria as well.
As to various improprieties at home, it’s all been seen and done before. The US has survived several bouts of attempted fascism. This one is the weakest so far. The sky is not falling, though the mindless dissent at home is killing our boys overseas.
Bill, I met you many years ago. You seemed like a thoughtful and honest guy. Your program on impeachment was a joke. You and PBS need to be fair and balanced especially since commercial radio and TV won't be. Let's try and do better next time. Remember contributors folks out there are paying for this stuff.
The show on Impeachment was a clarion call and yet I see little outrage in the press or other blogs. That shows how low we have sunk. The Civics education of our citizenry coupled with the duplicity of our press (they must be missing half of the fun of being reporters) are leading this nation to the brink of a dictatorship or a theocracy of the right. As we said in Vietnam, same-same.
Thank you Bill for another great show on the subject of Impeachment. But I am really at a loss to understand how you could fail to know (or knowing, fail to acknowledge) House Resolution 333 by Dennis Kucinich calling for the impeachment of Dick Chenney. I hope you will correct the oversight in your next broadcast, and not let "politics" stop you from supporting a politician who is trying to "do the right thing" even without the support of his own democratic party leadership. Regards. Douglas Hughes
Thank you to Bill Moyers, your guests and PBS. The online stream quality was excellent!
Several things need to occur in this American mess we are living through. The overwhelming number of abuses by the Executive Branch require the Impeachment and removal of President Bush and VP Cheney. These are not men who learn to do the right thing when confronted. A conflict of interest may exist for Ms Pelosi leading the charge because she stands to benefit from the removal, as Speaker of the House. If the Democrats are to find enough serious Republican members of Congress to approach impeachment, they need to overcome this hurdle. The succession rules should be as follows: with the removal of both Bush and Cheney, the presidential successors should be a moderate Republican and VP successor a moderate Democrat. The replacements would neither be able to run in 2008 or publicly endorse any of the candidates running. Congress should then consider the role an undiversified media has played in the power grab exercised by Bush & Cheney. Laws should be created which force media conglomerates to loosen their grip on media monopoly outlets throughout the US marketplace. We have to be willing to take these actions while our brave men and women are serving overseas. We need this to be completed prior to the 2008 election so any new Administration will be aware of the line drawn in the sand.
sign the IMpeachment petitions at www.ImpeachBush.org and at www.democrats.com. On September 15, there will be a march on Washington DC to protest the war and call for impeachment resolutions. Mr. Moyers, thank you for opening my eyes and ears.
I found this conversation to be a breath of fresh air. I was very disappointed there was no mention of Dennis Kucinich. Fein sain we need a congressperson to stand not with party but with the constitution. Kucinich did LITERALLY that very thing, pulling out his pocket constitution at a presidential debate. Any serious impeachment conversation needs mention Dennis Kucinich. Better yet interview him!!!
I agreed with everything Nichols and Fein said except one, once the impeachment starts it should finish only with those two treasonus swine behind bars. Not stop if they copitulate they were wrong. And that would be the result of accountability. Not just for the deaths in Iraq, the still free roaming Osama Bin Laden, but for all those young men and women whose injuries will never be whole again, and espeeically those who through manipulation of rules have lost all benefits for their injuries.
Thanks Mr. Moyer, Mr. Nichols and Mr. Fein for opening up this can of worms.
I really appreciated your program and guests last evening. It was nice to have experts explain what Impeachment is and how it works to make our democracy stronger. Please re-air this program. It is important that people have an opportunity to see it.
Each of us needs to send a letter to our representatives and to the Speaker demanding they start the impeachment process of both Vice President Cheney and President Bush. It is important to remind Congress that they are a separate, equal branch of government and it is time to take back the power that constitutionally resides with them as an institution.
This is not a partisan issue, as a matter of fact the Democrats don't seem to know what to do and the media is still asleep at the wheel.
Thank you once again Bill Moyers for another intelligent discourse on our sorry state of affairs in this country. So sad & troubled that you are not on MSM.
There existed in the founders of our republic a unique “exceptionalism”. They were exceptional precisely because they new they were not exceptional. This was at the heart of the debates of the Federalists (Hamilton, Madison, Jay) and the Anti-federalist (Patrick Henry) that led to our Constitution and a system of governmental “checks and balances” that limited the “exceptionalism” of any one branch of government.
Sadly, I doubt of many have even ever read the Federalist papers or the Anti-Federalist papers. These papers describe the worries of the framers and anticipate events that are happening before our very eyes today. The constitution was framed to provide these protections. Unfortunately, the last 100 years, has seen the “just powers from the consent of the people” given up as both political parties have acted to usurp or individual liberty for the “good of the governed”.
The failure here is in the executive branch, the legislative branch, the judicial branch, the free press and, I am sorry to say, in “we the people”. Liberty never comes easy.
If the Democratic Party had any brains or balls, they would make the show with Bruce Fein and John Nichols the center piece of their next effort to become relevant.
Thanks, Bill. The real problem here is the corporate media. They are not interested in the truth, it might interfere with profits. We must over-ride the corporate media and force this issue of protecting our Constitution, and as Mr Nichols said, negating the pillage of the Bushies so it won't be passed on...And since Ms. Pelosi won't do it, she must be pushed aside for someone who will stand up for principle!!
An outstanding program. The scary part is how future presidents(e.g. Guilini) will continue & expand the illegal activities of Bush/Cheney as presidential "rights"
Great show! Glad to see impeachment making it to TV.
What can people do?
They can email their US Representatives http::/www.house.gov/writerep/
and ask him/her to suppport House Resolution 333--the Kucinich bill calling for the impeachment of Cheney. Better yet--call toll free: 1 800 962-3254.
Contact the House Judiciary Committee and tell them to begin the impeachment investigations now.
Feel free to add Bush to the impeachment agenda; Bush and Cheney are equally guilty of extreme abuses of power.
Write letters to the editor of your hometown paper calling for impeachment.
Hold educational events showing this video or the Center for Congresssional Rights video--How to Impeach a President.
Stand on street corners with signs saying Honk for impeachment--it will feel great for you to hear the support.
Organize--get petitions signed. Go to local political party meetings and ask them to endorse a resolution for impeachment. Go to your state legislature and ask them to pass a resolution calling for impeachment--Congress has to act if they receive a resolution from the state legislature--it is in their rule book.
Visit Afterdowningstreet.org
and ImpeachTV.org
Both are great websites but there are many others.
Vocally refuse to conribute to the spineless Democrats who are more interested in keeping Bush in office so they can run against him in 2008--strange logic but it is true--Not a dime, not a phone call, not a sign in the yard until the Democrats put the Constitution ahead of the 2008 elections. Politicians need to stand for something besides reelection.
Every day, do something!! It can be small--like reading one of the many books on impeachment, it can be large, like demonstrating in front of your Congressman's home office.
Act.
We the people do not have to sit back and accept the destruction of our Constitution and our Democracy. ACT!
I miss the Constitution and I want it back.
Many thanks to Bill Moyers for the show with Nichols and Fein. Perhaps people without access to the internet will finally be informed of the criminality of the Bush Cheney gang.
If Nixon had been hanged for Watergate, would the Shrub have been more reluctant to launch a war of aggression? I suspect so.
Let's don't repeat the mistake of 1974. Bush-Cheney and the entire neocon cabal, all the way down to the laptop bombardiers like Bill Kristol, deserve to be prosecuted for war crimes and punished appropriately. Over a million deaths are directly attributable to this gang. They are mass murderers and deserve the punishment. Impeachment, the first step in cleansing America of this putrid and fetid regime, should begin immediately!
First, thank you for the most informative show on impeachment I have seen in any medium except for written and video interviews with Elizabeth Holtzman, who has been ahead of most people on this issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwiSyIbeYjI
Thank you for having John Nichols and Bruce Fein, two of the most eloquent spokesman on this issue.
We would offer two friendly recommendations. First, please don't push your devil's advocate role too far. Ask probing, informed questions, as you do so beautifully. But there is no point in giving any more voice than necessary to ill-informed objections to impeachment. Second, please recognize that there are several true statesmen in the U.S. Congress who were working to address the Bush administration's transgressions long before Bush's poll numbers dropped: John Conyers, Henry Waxman, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, and Russ Feingold. There are others, but these are among the most prominent. We should recognize and thank them.
PBS has at times unfortunately succumbed to the pressure from the right to dumb down its offerings to the American people. Thank you for resisting that pressure. Your program should be rerun repeatedly. Put it on Google video and YouTube. You should also give copies on DVD to every member of Congress.
First, thank you for the most informative show on impeachment I have seen in any medium except for written and video interviews with Elizabeth Holtzman, who has been ahead of most people on this issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwiSyIbeYjI
Thank you for having John Nichols and Bruce Fein, two of the most eloquent spokesman on this issue.
We would offer two friendly recommendations. First, please don't push your devil's advocate role too far. Ask probing, informed questions, as you do so beautifully. But there is no point in giving any more voice than necessary to ill-informed objections to impeachment. Second, please recognize that there are several true statesmen in the U.S. Congress who were working to address the Bush administration's transgressions long before Bush's poll numbers dropped: John Conyers, Henry Waxman, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, and Russ Feingold. There are others, but these are among the most prominent. We should recognize and thank them.
PBS has at times unfortunately succumbed to the pressure from the right to dumb down its offerings to the American people. Thank you for resisting that pressure. Your program should be rerun repeatedly. Put it on Google video and YouTube. You should also give copies on DVD to every member of Congress.
please re-run this program in prime time-over and over, and make sure that the members of Congress who can act do see it. We will do all we can but this is so powerful-they need to be reminded to take their power bsck.
I enjoyed your, "Talk of Impeachment" segment in last night's Journal. It gave me some very good talking points to use.
Bruce Fein and John Nichols are absolutely correct in saying that NOT going forward with impeachment would set a dangerous precident for future administrations.
Locally, (Los Angeles), we have opened an Impeachment Center, where local activists can contribute time every Saturday from 2pm-6pm, for phone banking, letter writing, and strategizing, on how to go about getting the impeachment proceedings started.
One thing that wasn't mentioned last night is Dennis Kucinich's bill HR333.
Both John Nichols, and Bruce Fein asked, "Where is the leadership?"
Well gentlemen, here it is.
Please don't ignore this effort just because Kucinich is running for President, I'm sure he'd be doing this even if he wasn't. At the opening of our "Impeachment Center" on July 4th, both Maxine Waters and Jackie Goldberg showed up and spoke in support of these efforts. So Kucinich is not alone in this.
So the leadership is here. You just have to look for it. This is not something mainstream Democrats want us doing, so you aren't going to hear about our existence from them.
Thank you Bill! I was glued to the t.v. I challenge everyone to send a donation to PBS to thank them and to continue to air this show..send the link to your friends and Nancy Pelosi & representatives as I did. We have to wake up...read the Constitution, know what John Nichols and Bruce Fein were speaking of...WE THE PEOPLE!
Finally, a reasoned, intelligent and uplifting discussion of IMPEACHMENT.
The most relevant point made was about how this is not about a personal attack upon Bush or Cheney. No, that was the way it was with Clinton because that is what motivates the right. What they fail to understand on that side of the political spectrum is that those of us on the left are deeply concerned with our constitutional form of governance.
We are presented here with a democracy in critical condition. Vital signs are all in the red. What is needed is surgery. Impeachment is the scalpel.
Finally, a reasoned, intelligent and uplifting discussion of IMPEACHMENT.
The most relevant point made was about how this is not about a personal attack upon Bush or Cheney. No, that was the way it was with Clinton because that is what motivates the right. What they fail to understand on that side of the political spectrum is that those of us on the left are deeply concerned with our constitutional form of governance.
We are presented here with a democracy in critical condition. Vital signs are all in the red. What is needed is surgery. Impeachment is the scalpel.
Thank you for your show last night. I am recommending it to everyone who is frustrated with what is happening to our counttry, which is just about anyone I know. The 2 negative comments I read only serve to reinforce my convictions that the extreme right is very, very wrong and totally unable to see that what they seem to advocate is only leading us further away from democracy and hurting the very republic that defends thier right to be so wrong. If it were not so serious, one could almost laugh at their ignorance.
Bill Moyers has shown again and again what we have lost in our privately owned media: the deep, thoughtful, truthful, intelligent look at the world a country must have if it is to preserve a free and democratic society. For the most part, the so-called Fourth Estate, the Media (that the Founders counted on) has fallen into the hands of special interests. It, therefore, should be no surprise that the people are becoming dangerously easy to lead astray. Without good knowledge and thoughtful open discussion, democracy has no chance. Bill Moyers is a light in a growing dark. We owe him and public television much.
Thank you, Bill Moyers, John Nichols and Bruce Fein! Bill, please re-air this program often and please continue this very necessary discussion. I would also very much like to see a program on Presidential Directive 51, which bush signed in May 2007, allowing him to declare a state of martial law.
Concerned citizens (and we all need to be VERY concerned), please:
1) Write your elected officials, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid, including a link to Bill’s program and Presidential Directive 51 (below). Demand they take necessary action to preserve our country and our Constitution – this is their job.
2) Write your local newspapers, TV and radio stations, including a link to Bill’s program and Presidential Directive 51. Demand they do their job. Let them know you will drop them and seek out your news elsewhere if they do not provide substantive, honest coverage – and if they don’t, follow through on your promise.
3) Communicate with your family, friends, neighbors, class mates and give them the link or transcript for last night’s program and Presidential Directive 51.
4) Support those elected officials who are in favor of impeachment – write John Conyers, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, etc.
These cannot be one-time actions; they must be done repeatedly to put pressure on for action.
Check out Presidential Directive 51, signed by bush May 10, 2007, giving him power to declare a state of martial law, at which time he will have totally free reign to do anything (some might argue he has already reached that point). With Chertoff’s recently expressed “gut feeling”, and Iran being mentioned more frequently lately, we may soon find ourselves living under martial law, allowing bush to call off the 2008 elections and remain in power. Those in power do not readily give up power, and given the bag of tricks this gang of thugs, thieves and think tanks has used in the 2000 and 2004 elections, and the many atrocities they have committed against our country and our Constitution, and gotten away with, you can be sure they have much bigger stuff in the works. This is a very smart group, diabolical and greedy, but smart, relentless and carefully scheming to continue their grand plan. There is no choice but to impeach NOW – discuss Presidential Directive 51 and its horrendous implications with your elected officials – and demand the media cover it too! http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
To Guy Bergeson who wonders why the posts here don't contain well reasoned arguments in favor of impeachment, but instead just gratitude to Mr. Moyers.
That's because the program itself contained the reasons, expressed eloquently and powerfully. Everyone is thanking him for speaking the truth.
You're post suggests Americans stop being divisive and focus on what brings us together.
What if, during the American revolution, they had accepted that advice?
The show on impeachment last night was a graduate seminar on the subject. I agree that we ARE IN a constitutional crisis and it is past time to act. I wish you had addressed the impeachment of the Attorney General as well. We are at a dangerous point; the DoJ and the judiciary are both now filled with individuals who believe they have sworn to protect and defend the President, not the Constitution and the corporate media is owned by Defense Industry or ideologues who support the neo-conservative world view. The corporate media has become an extension of the Whitehouse PR function. There is a real question as to whether the DoJ would actually pursue any case against the Administration. The Democratic majority in congress is still trying to figure out how to function as a majority and seize control of the reigns of power --they are afraid of the Administration, afraid of the minority party and afraid of the media.
When do we finally storm the barricades?
Thank you Mr. Moyers for offering legitimacy to the debate over impeachment. I for one would be satisfied with impeaching V.P. Cheney and letting President Bush limp into history.
There is more than amble evidence that this pair has done great harm to the Constitution and to the Nation and deserve all that history will write of them but now - right now the country needs desperately to become a democratic republic again and impeachment is the only real solution.
I am thankful to live in a state that proudly airs Bill Moyer's Journal. Last night's discussion of impeachment and the blatant disregard of our constitution by Bush and Cheney was powerful. It was so much more than a bunch of talking heads trying to steal a few more moments on the camera. These were men sharing their intelligence and convictions with us and above all their love for our constitution and our nation. The fact that I label these men as brave speaks to the fear and terror which Bush and all those behind him want to spread. We must never forget that we are a nation of laws.
A previous poster made the statement that this program should be required viewing for each person who purports to represent us. Well, I would like to take it a step further......this program should be required viewing for ANYONE who claims to be an American.
There seems to be so much ignorance about the contents of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that one has to wonder whether schools are teaching basic government any more. Today things are blatently partisan, but your program shows how one can take opposing factions and debate them in a manner which does not end up being a Republican Party vs. Democratic Party debate. By choosing a representative from each end of the political spectrum and having such a balanced and successful conversation which looks at each facet of the problem, you have demonstrated to all how to conduct a conversation to the benefit of the American Public rather than having one side winning and one side losing. Thank you so very much--I just wish this had a bigger audience. Like I said at the beginning of this post--should be required viewing for all.
How very interesting. I just scrolled through the comments on this blog. I'll admit I didn't read all of them, I just skimmed through them. What is interesting is the lack of well reasoned comments. There are hundreds of posts here. Most of them say “Thank you Mr. Moyer,” and little else. What is more interesting is the tone of the negative comments. I have read all of them. They are all full of vitriolic anger and name calling. How very interesting.
Earlier this week I listened to the last part of Mr. Clintons address at the Harry Truman library. I must admit that I am not and never have been a fan of Mr. Clinton. However, what he had to say made sense. Why are we focusing on the very, very small portion of our lives that are different and not on the things where we’re the same? Why focus on the divisive issues rather than the uniting ones? What is wrong with America that we cannot agree to disagree without being disagreeable?
Anyway, some questions for you all to think about….
Thank you Mr. Moyers. Your voice is crucial in this, our constitution's darkest hour. I only wish Speaker Pelosi was sitting at the table with you three gentleman.
It is far past time to show Cheney and Bush the exit door.
Dennis Kucinich's name has become synonymous with impeaching Bush and Cheney. This is because the only impeachment legislation was filed by him against Cheney as a first step towards impeaching both Bush and Cheney. Officially 13 co-sponsors are listed in the Library of Congress.
The only person it makes sense to interview on the subject of impeachment is the author of the bill, Dennis Kucinich. Please invite him to your show if you want an informed discussion of the topic.
It was therapeutic to watch the program last night.
My dismay with the state of the nation has grown into near-despair. All standards of justice and morality seem to fail against the arrogant power ensconced in the White House.
The program reminds one that ideas and ideals do have potency.
The American experiment has seemed doomed of late, the egregious affronts to its basic premises going unchecked. The program last night recommends a response that is commensurate with the threat.
Impeachment is the only effective response to our leaders' actions.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank You Bill Moyers for having two individuals who forcefully spoke out on the Constitutional importance of moving ahead with impeaching the Bush Administration! They both gave credible evidence that it must be done before we move into the next administration. I wrote to each of my representatives this morning with a link to your program, and sent copies to their aides. Now I hope that we will be begin to see some action.
Your program gave me hope for the first time in 6 years that something could be done!
As to the media....well, we need an investigation there, too. We are not getting all of the news.
I'm also concerned about the power of money and some lobby groups, particularly those that lobby for one interest ~ to the exclusion of hearing both sides of the situation, such as AIPAC, the powerful Israeli lobby. Where are the supporters of Human Rights in congress? Where are the "checks and balances"?
I get most of my news now from the internet. What happens to those that don't have access to the Internet?
Thank you again, Mr. Moyers, for a very enlightening program!
I was so happy to see this program. They've deserved impeachment for most of their tenure and yet there hasn't been a serious discussion of the subject on national television until now. For those who decry the one-sidedness of the broadcast, I say tonight's show just begins to redress the imbalance of the past six years.
Thank you. I was waivering on impeachment, but not anymore. These two thinkers really persuaded me that for the sake of the constitution, we must pursue impeachment. Elequont, profound, educational and moving segment. Should be a must for everyone in Congress to shame them into the truth.
Bill Moyers....You have outdone yourself! Last nights program on impeachment was the best I've seen on the current fractured nature of the Bush "government."I use quotation marks on this last word to indicate that we really don't have a government. What we have is a cabal of plotters,operating out of the Oval office, and motivated by their lust for power and control, and a complete disregard for the 232 year history of our
constitution. So be it!
I have forwarded the link to your brilliant discussion to a hundred friends. I agree with above posters that this is long past due. Please try to do something about midwest pbs stations that do not carry NOW or Bill Moyers Journal. there are places in the midwest where the only radio is owned by FOX. without your program to wake up the sleeping sheep, they are fed only a daily diet of hate and fearmongering. please try to influence midwest stations to carry your program.
Why doesn't someone recommend that we impeach them all. Public satisfaction with the job lawmakers are doing has fallen 11 points since May, to 24 percent, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll yesterday. That's lower than for President Bush, who hasn't fared well lately, either. I guess it is Moyers, Fein and Nichols evening of "Bush Bashing". They would never bash Pelosi et el.
Bill Moyers program on impeachment was great with the exception of two points not mentioned: 1. Dennis Kucinich has initiated a movement for impeachment and nine other House members have joined. 2. during a presidential meeting with aides in the White House, one of the aides suggested that an action that Mr. Bush was proposing might be unconstitutional and to that suggestion Mr. Bush is reported to have said "The Constitution is nothing but a god-damned piece of paper." This utter disdain if not outright contempt of our Constitution by a person who took an oath to uphold this Constitution is enough reason to impeach and one the average citizen is capable of understanding and hence, get behind and support Mr. Kucinich's bill for impeachment.
Thank you Bill Moyers and guests for your program tonight. I have been outraged by the blatant disregard of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the rule of law this admistration has demonstrated the past 6 plus years.
Today I will again write to Nancy Pilosi and my representatives and encourage them to support the impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
I believe the Democrats are too scared to impeach. They know how slippery this administration is and if impeachment fails, it will then be the Democrats that will look ineffective going into the '08 election. Pelozi and most Dem's are just trying to wait it out while more and more Republican scandals come to light. While I personally oppose this inaction on the part of Democrats, you have to agree that the "average" American grew dissatisfied with the Iraq war only after tiring of the daily reports about roadside bombs for all these years. Perhaps the correct play is to wait for the "average" American voter to tire of this administration's scandals and the Republican candidates who stand with them rather than risk being "swift boated" by a failed impeachment attempt.
We should have flayed The Great Satan Milhouse and tacked his hide to the Rose Garden tool shed door when we had the chance, so that all future presidents could look out the Oval Office window and be warned not to mess with the will and the rights of the American People!
W and Shotgun Dick are not right-wing, conservative, Republican, Christians … they are royalists and CRIMINALS who make Nixon’s faults pale in comparison.
I applaude anybody that airs a program for the betterment of society and hold accountable those that wish to abort our constitutional rights. I think Impeachment should have happened before now and for many obvious reasons. Not only have Bush and Cheney committ acts of treason against you and me and all Americans, they have snubbed the voters on a daily basis. But the most blatant consequences will follow our great nation for many generatons to come. I truely believe that that this war was only a tool to make a further division in the wealth distribution in our society. If one would look at the facts that since 911, Halliburton, Bechtel, Chevron Oil, and others have quadrupled the value of their holdings. It is a war machine to provide great wealth to a few at the expense of the populace. The US has the 13th largest oil reserves and is the number one consumer. It makes sense that we would want more oil for our use, but everybody ignors the fact that there exists many new forms of energy that could not only make our environment healthier and cleaner, but could make energy almost free. It is the oil that makes fortunes, but if free energy sources that were not meterable where available, then oil holdings would have little value. When was the last time anybody heard about a government supported effort to help develop alternative energy sources? Well, you won't because that will not put revenue in the pockets of the wealthy. I say IMPEACH Cheney and Bush and show the world that we still have a real democracy and we will remain a world leader. It's time to secure our borders, stop being the aggressor, and get back to what made this country great .
Congrats to Mr. Moyers, it isn't just a rummor, brave journalists really are still out there. Wish they were rabbits, and would multiply soooooooon. We need them!!
Wish Mr. Fein's impassioned speech could be sent to Senators Arlen Specter and Patrick Leahy. They need a little fire!!
For my part, I am looking for a readable copy of Bill Moyers Essay: War Debate. I am looking for someone he quoted during the essay. Where do I go?
Thanks, again for a quality program.
Chris Eirschele
Thank you for another great program-We need to send Bruce Fein into Congress & turn him loose!
Kudos to Sen. Joseph Biden Jr.-It's great to see someone in congress speaking from the heart and with emotion, not reading a speech on the podium that someone else wrote-I think Sen. Lindsey Graham was trying to rock us to sleep with that side to side motion or maybe he needed to use the little boys room-either way I was getting motion sickness from watching him. Sen. Joe Lieberman-He's a Schmuck! Seems like he is reading a statement written by a "Speechalist" he borrowed from GW. Sen. John McCain-he does not seem to have conviction in his words anymore, he's just "staying his course"-and that's a fact, a fact, a fact-and that's a fact. Kudos to Sen. Barbara Boxer-You go Girl! Another Senator that shows they care-or at least displays emotion-Does Iraq have a 2nd Amendment like the United States has? Theirs must be for the right to bare arms to defend against insurgents and ours is meant to defend ourselves against any Police State situation-applicable to Los Angeles area only (must be a legal resident or US Citizen-Green Cards are not accepted, green represents the environment). Lastly, one more kudos and a thumbs up for Sen. Joseph Biden, Jr.-in regards to his discussion he had with GW & Uncle Dick-I feel he was holding up the wrong finger!
Now onto some paranoid thinking:Maybe six months ago I was listening to KPFK-they were doing a phone interview with some retired Admiral and the topic for the program was Iran and the possibility of the Cheney Administration, Er, I mean the BUSH administration launching a war with the intent to bomb Tehran into a "Regime Change". Hey, if at first you don't succeed mentality. This Admiral stated that when you see a third Carrier Group on it's way, that will be the signal that "it's on". The Enterprise Carrier group is on it's way now possibly to replace and relieve one of the other two carrier groups. Now, add to that the following: The Presidential Directive 51 from May 10th, 2007 that GW signed into law that makes it a lot easier for what I would call a state of Martial law to be declared. http://www.whitehouse.gov.edgesuite.net/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
Now a few days ago, we hear Secretary Chertoff stating that he has a "Gut Feeling" that we may experience another "terrorist attack" here in the US this summer. GW and Uncle Dick have increased the usage of the name Al Quada and the word terrorist in their speeches considerably-one new sourse said GW used Al Queda 30 times the other day. Let us now include covert "Blackwater" operatives employed by our beloved Leaders along with my suspicions that September 11th was an inside job created to jump start the Iraq war- You should have the picture I am drawing by now. If I am wrong, please prescribe me a Fifth of Jack and a bottle of ProzaK-If my suspicions have some merit, What the hell do we do about it?
I note that among the posters concerning your program, come the inevitable, vacuous dupes of the right-wing propaganda corps. If their observations were not such clear evidence of their unalloyed ignorance of the rule of law and of their willingness to see the Constitution trampled upon in the name of security in a climate of fear fueled daily by the quasi-fascist rightwingers now in control of the Republican party, then the rest of us could all join in hilarious laughter at their misguided rants.
Mr. Moyers,
I viewed online your journal from last night. First of all, thank you. I was reminded about the broadcast while reading a blog this morning (on Daily Kos). The discussion between Messers Fein and Nichols had me cheering out loud! I am moved to action. Although still undergoing chemotherapy, on my good days I will get one of those signs that say ENOUGH and drive downtown to the Capitol Building and walk around. And if or when someone asks me why, I will say it is time to hold them (Cheney and Bush) to account. God Bless America!
Thank you, Bill Moyers and PBS, for another outstanding and inspiring broadcast! Your discussion with Bruce Nichols and Bruce Fein on July 13 has persuaded me to contact Congress to push for impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
Allow a slightly different emphasis, would you: This program needs to be rerun on EVERY station. This may sound crazy, but some thinking way outside the box may be useful. Clearly, the people need to put CONSTANT pressure on congress to move forward on this. If the people --- who do not have this duty as WHAT THEY ARE PAID FOR, that is, how they secure an income to live from day to day --- are to effectively apply this pressure to congress, they need to be fired up to overcome the inertia of the reality of how politicians act on a day to day, nay moment to moment basis. If the media provided the impetus by widely running this program periodically over the next say five months, the consciousness of a critical mass of the people may be raised and sustained to the point of no return. That is the impeachment proceedings will proceed. Metaphorically, the snowball, or should I say leadball, once given the necessary impulse, will be off and running.
I'm sure there are myriad reasons why the media cannot and/or should not do such a thing. I say this: Most people look at what is and say why bother; Those who see themselves, "leaders" (of all sorts) look at what can be and say we should, shouldn't we?; Visionaries look at what ought to be and ask why not.
Last point: Reading the comments herein ---- i.e. most of them ---- maybe there is justification for believing that Orwell's 1984 can be held at bay.
NOTE: Empire is fundamentally incompatible with democracy.
Having read the bloggers comments it amazes me that there are so few critics. Aside for the remarkable omissions on HR 333 by Kucinich to Inpeach Cheney, voter fraud (Sen. Kennedy-D-MA and Sen. Whitehouse-D-RI started an investigation into the use of "caging lists" to entrap legal voters)and the Progressive Democrats that are practicing the called for statemenship that is called for-a few others the stray critics either were few calling for the typical nit-picking to raise doubt & spinning the facts to retell the facts in a light that leads to an illogical conclusion which we have grown accustomed to that has replaced factual analysis. This show was very convincing & logical, but how many people that sheepishly hide behind the Bush-Cheney full frontal assault on the constitution were watching or does logic really work when it is given a chance?
As you pounded on with your questions, these actions By Bush-Cheney are undisputable- the only explanation is is this necessary because of the so-called war on terror and if you think it is how is it working? Further, if the constitution needs to be suspended, why has this not come before congress? They are not particularly willing to stand up to Bush-Cheney anyway, why not dump this on them?
The clearist letter of the "law" that Bush Cheny has broken is the illegal spying on Americans without approval by the FISA that has largely rubber stamped every warrant. Even AG Ashcroft wrote that this was illegal & they did it anyway because they figure with this stacked supreme court and middle still seeing red at the mere mention of 9/11 that this is a good time for a constitutional crisis. Maybe some of these Justices that won't defend the constitution will nedd to be impeached. You see, if Congress would start with passing HR 333 to impeach Cheney next week everything wouold change. The game would shift to CYA- cover your assets & put some bite into the Democrats bark. Are you listening Rahm & Nancy? The progressives are delivering you a winning hand in this high stakes poker game- will you play them of fold?
Let's keep this debate on the front burner. Let's elect only representatives that will put the constitution befor the party & self interest. If you are a Dem. only vote for the progressives who have been right & logical. If you are a conservative or a Republican, hold your party to the same standards of honesty & lawfulness that you defend.
Without the constitution there is no republic, our way of life is over. Doesn't that make Al-Quida the winner?
Robert Malin
Progressive Democrats Of America
www.pdamerica.org
This nation faces a constitutional crisis. Shall the president and the vice president continue to act without oversight, with the claim of "national security" attached to every piece of paper emerging from the executive office. Secrets abound, and the impeial presidency builds and builds, leaving the rest of us in the dark about matters of major conern, not only regarding Iraq and Afghanistan, but civil liberties as well.
I did not participate in WW 2 in order for this country to slide into a dictatorship but that seems to me to be what's happening. Sad day indeed.
Both holders of executive power should be impeached NOW!
As always a great show however, I was somewhat dismayed by the fact that in an hour of talking impeachment neither you nor either of your guests thought it important to mention Dennis Kucinich's HR 333 for the impeachment of Dick Cheney.
I utterly fail to understand why the media continues to marginalize one of the few true Statesmen who actually adheres to the will and best interests of the people in performing his duties in Congress, while promoting the most "self serving" of candidates and declaring them "front runner".
Bill, your show is undoubtedly one of the finest hours on television each week, but I am quite befuddled that Dennis nor HR 333 didn't even garner a mention in last nights broadcast. I for one hope you will take a moment to relate to your viewers the reason(s) behind and obvious snub.
I am in complete agreement with another blogger who wrote: “Bill Moyers is the absolute best in broadcasting.” “…he and his guests -- Democrat and Republican alike; conservative and liberal alike were united and one in their understanding of exactly what we are about, what the genius of Founders knew about tyranny and what is at risk in this country…” When we talk about protecting our country...our national security...what is it that we are protecting if not our civil liberties? We "average Americans" need to behave as citizens and not children of our country. Impeachment hearings are a needed response to the constitutional crisis that we are in....impeachment hearings are not a constitutional crisis. I hope that we move forward with impeachment hearings for both Bush and Cheney.
Excellent program. We need more like this. The next one should be discussing how the hesitancy of congress's leaders is directly proportional to the load of corporate money, perks and cushy post-congress jobs shoveled their way.
We need to do the right thing and get Iraq squared away. But it looks like most of use are not willing to pay the price and the rest of the world has proven they are willing to let America do it all. So we are now loosing with Washington jumping on board to take advantage of America's lose next Fall. Makes me sick to see so few with the guts to do the right thing. They are all in Iraq.
I agree with the idea of impeachment of Bush and Cheney, especially because of the idea of deterring future presidents from this style of executive management... My wife believes it's the only way to keep our country from going the way of the Roman Empire and all of its excesses.
Thanks Bill for a brilliant discussion. King Dick and his patsy George have brought our country to its lowest point since its birth. I've never marched for anything nor written a blog but you've propelled me to get off my buns. Impeach this monarchy!
The only reason you could air this shameful program last night is because of the freedom in America, which this administration fights hard to protect. However, it is a high crime for the media, a self-appointed "4th branch" as one called it in the program, to spend tax payers money and mislead people. It is obviously a one-sided and distorted report. There wasn't any "debate" in the program. I am calling my Congressmen to eliminate tax money to go to PBS!
Superb! Impeach, impeach, impeach, and then try as war criminals. I believe this is the only way our country will ever recover any type of standing in the world - showing that we have the "guts" to do to our own what we do to others. No wonder people hate us.
Bill,
Thank you and your guests for expressing what I could not articulate as well. That little piece of paper, The Constitution of the United States of America, is all that stands between totalitarianism and us. It is long past the time that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are called to account for their illegal actions and their attempt to hide what they are doing. The Constitution must be defended. The strategy of “waiting it out” is wrong. Congress must be induced to do its duty.
I commend PBS for its brief moment of courage - in actually honoring our Constitution's First Amendment right to free speech - in airing the program on Impeachment.
And I thank Bill Moyers, not only for coming out of retirement for his new series, but also for producing a program on Impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
PBS and Bill Moyers -you have given all Americans an invaluable gift - a reminder that, as John Nichols said, in this time of frequent and illegal abuses of Presidential power, our country is in a Constitutional crisis. And our genius founding fathers set up a Constitutional cure for this crisis: impeachment.
Congratulations also to the community of impeachment activists around the country and on the internet - each of whom gives gifts to all Americans every day through their tireless activism.
I commend PBS for its brief moment of courage - in actually honoring our Constitution's First Amendment right to free speech - in airing the program on Impeachment.
And I thank Bill Moyers, not only for coming out of retirement for his new series, but also for producing a program on Impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
PBS and Bill Moyers -you have given all Americans an invaluable gift - a reminder that, as John Nichols said, in this time of frequent and illegal abuses of Presidential power, our country is in a Constitutional crisis. And our genius founding fathers set up a Constitutional cure for this crisis: impeachment.
Congratulations also to the community of impeachment activists around the country and on the internet - each of whom gives gifts to all Americans every day through their tireless activism.
I commend PBS for its brief moment of courage - in actually honoring our Constitution's First Amendment right to free speech - in airing the program on Impeachment.
And I thank Bill Moyers, not only for coming out of retirement for his new series, but also for producing a program on Impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
PBS and Bill Moyers -you have given all Americans an invaluable gift - a reminder that, as John Nichols said, in this time of frequent and illegal abuses of Presidential power, our country is in a Constitutional crisis. And our genius founding fathers set up a Constitutional cure for this crisis: impeachment.
Congratulations also to the community of impeachment activists around the country and on the internet - each of whom gives gifts to all Americans every day through their tireless activism.
Mr. Moyers thank you for just saying what needs to be said. For me, the most frightening and dangerious aspect of the events of the past six years has been the complete collapse of the Forth Estate.
This most precious of gifts born of this Great Experiment, failed utterly in it's responsibility to question the motives and methods of Power. The ease and speed with which the the lies and deceit spread and reverberated until the majority of Americans were hypnotized into leaping into an illegal, unjust perpetual war.
Have anything to say to Nancy Pelosi? If so, people outside of her district should address Madam Speaker at:
>AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov
Hopefully, orderly impeachment procedings can retrieve a Constitutional republic, preventing our nation from slipping into dictatorship, violent resistance, and many years of chaos.
I m continuing reading posts here, but I'm astounded to find only a hand full of posts that indicate they have been even concerned about Bush and Cheney's abuse of power before the 2004 election.
And I wondered where the two guests stood. Not to pick on Bruce Fein, but after poking around I found this statement he made:
"Also, in 2004, my concerns about Bush had been awakened, but not sufficiently to vote for Kerry. I had assailed Bush’s claim of power to detain indefinitely illegal combatants on his say-so alone, and his utopian and calamitous policy in post-Saddam Iraq pivoting on the premise that democracy would emerge spontaneously from the Tigris and Euphrates after 4,000 years of dormancy. Bush’s flagrant contempt for the Constitution through the NSA’s warrantless surveillance program and sister spying that has yet to be revealed was unknown in 2004. I would not vote for Bush now, nor Kerry either,..." http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=237
So, I guess the reason should be impeached isn't because he made clearly unconstitutional claims, like gitmo places prisoners beyond all law, and other abuses of power, but because he crossed some invisible line on acceptable abuse of power.
And even at that, he wouldn't do everything possible to prevent someone who should be impeached from being elected, he would merely cast a symbolic vote to absolve himself.
To his credit, John Nichols quotes Former Minnesota Governor Elmer Andersen, a Republican prior to the 2004 election: "The two 'Say No to Bush' signs in my yard say it all. The present Republican president has led us into an unjustified war -- based on misguided and blatantly false misrepresentations of the threat of weapons of mass destruction. The terror seat was Afghanistan. Iraq had no connection to these acts of terror and was not a serious threat to the United States, as this president claimed, and there was no relation, it's now obvious, to any serious weaponry. Although Saddam Hussein is a frightful tyrant, he posed no threat to the United States when we entered the war. George W. Bush's arrogant actions to jump into Iraq when he had no plan how to get out have alienated the United States from our most trusted allies and weakened us immeasurably around the world... This imperialistic, stubborn adherence to wrongful policies and known untruths by the Cheney-Bush administration -- and that's the accurate order -- has simply become more than I can stand."
See the many other comments from conservative and Republicans he quotes at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/31/opinion/main652488.shtml
Actions have consequences and far too many of all stripes voted for and supported Bush by placing political power and expediency over principle - I say, let the people stew over the liberty they happily gave up to Bush in return for his empty promises. I hope they will remember the lesson in the votes they cast during the remainder of their life. Which I hope is many decades.
Besides, the conservatives are always complaining about liberals bailing out those who screw up rather than making the screw ups live with their mistakes.
I want to say a big 'Thank you' to Bill Moyers, Bruce Fein and John Nichols. Your comments about Bush acting like a king and running the government like a monarchy are hauntingly insightful and accurate. The lies used to initiate the war in Iraq have now cost our country over $400 billion; the final total including indirect costs will be much more than that. There have been more than 3600 deaths and 26000 wounded. Along with the illegal spying, torture, and firing of federal attorneys, Bush has has now pardoned the only person actually convicted for lying about Iraq and rejected congressional subpoenas. This abuse of power must be stopped; IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY NOW.
I struggle to find words to adequately express my contempt for your program tonight and for the lunatic comments of your guests regarding a dual impeachment. However, the favorable comments of your followers above, replete with illogic, distortion, and self destructive venom, provide more damning criticisim than I ever could. You are defined by the company you keep and that company is deranged.
Impeachment of both executives during war is beyond the pale. You and your mad guests give no rational consideration to the damage that would do to the country and to vital national interests.
You boldly state that there is a constitutional crisis. There is none. The three branches continue to function as the founders and two hundred years of precedent decree. The remedy for the crisis you think you behold is called an election. If the citizenry moves the Senate, your side will prevail.
Then, in my opinion, the real "crisis" will begin because critics such as yourself and the most liberal of the Democrats will then introduce us to the vacuum that is their body of thought on Middle East policy. Your liberal allies offer nothing in the way of intelligent alternatives in Iraq. Your media allies all but embrace the idea of wholesale genoside in that country. If you camp could just demonstrate the slightest glimering of understanding regarding the long term risks we face, you would deserve attention, but neither you, your guests, the democratic party, current or former democrat presidential aspirants do so.
The combination of smug certainty and absence of meanigful thought on the part of the left eclipses the hubris of the Bush administration. God help us if your ideas prevail.
I cannot believe you had this whole wonderful program and not mention that Dennis Kucinich already filed Articles of Impeachment in H.Res. 333. How can any coverage of this issue be complete if you don't include people who have already taken heroic action on this matter? Please, please include Dennis Kucinich whenever you discuss issues of Impeachment, Universal Health Care (HR 676 is the Conyers/Kucinich bill), and Iraq (HR 1234, the Kucinich Plan for Iraq).
Great work IS being done, and I expect you, at least, to help bring it to light of day. Thank you for your new show. I hang on your every word, you are so eloquent and passionate, and I look forward to hearing you talk to Kucinich.
Every American citizen should have the Constitution nearly memorized...and or a genuine understanding of it. That is the ONLY way anyone is able to recognize WHEN it is being violated. The few complainers on this blog proved that they view our constitution as a partisan thing. Not only do americans know that bushcheny need to be impeached, we also have been watching the christian right try to claim that our constitution means a bunch of things that it doesn't. Mr. Moyers, it was obvious to me long ago that we needed a constitutional scholar to run for pres. so when Obama (who is one) came along, he became my candidate. Barack, if you are reading this, and you should be, Mr. Moyers beat you to the punch. I thought for sure you would have been TOTALLY OUT THERE on the campaign trail explaining the constitution. Why do you think you are setting fundraising records? we the people know you are the constitution upholder. Now get with it.
14 July 2007 It almost makes my fingers fizz as I note that this day is celebrated by the French people and all who admire them as BASTILLE DAY. Louis XVI and his so very Hollywoodish wife, Marie Antoinette, paid with their heads for their abuses (and those of many of their predecessors) of liberty, etc. Intelligent as I like to think I am, I confess I do not fathom how yet another personality perched atop the traditional American flagpole presumes to think that he/they may lie, deceive, profit monumentally from the so-called battle against THE AXIS OF EVIL -- some 3,600 Americans dead, cost of some 40 mil/mo, alienation from countless citizens globally. MON DIEU, even Louis would have been dumbfounded! Right, Bill? They always said that silence speaks volumes, and I will say the obvious: only a handful of obedient Bushies were led to hoot at the choir demanding truth and action. VIVE LES REPUBLIQUES -- American, French and others. Uncle Ben was so right: we stand together or die solo - chilled by indifference seated by our cybertoys and silent in 2007.
I don't know about any one else but PBS Hawaii's "Moyers Journal" video has (censored) not been made available for viewing online. This has not happened before on any other episode. Could it be that PBS Hawaii does not want to stream any content that contains the elements to IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY??? Bill Moyer's should be made aware of this intentional ommision by PBS Hawaii.
I have spent the last 2 hrs. reading these blogs with an increasingly hopeful heart. Maybe something CAN & WILL be done to publicly denounce the Bush/Cheney administration.
Bush, apparently, is currently concerned about his legacy. At this time, the best legacy he can leave to this country; is to leave office with a charge of Impeachment. The lesson left to future generations about leaders who feel above the law would keep him in the history books for a long, long time.
Mr.Moyers I thank you for a very important show. I only wish those that disagree so strongly will continue to watch. You may not like to hear what is said, but at some time you may realize that it is, unfortunatly for our country, true.
I have spent the last 2 hrs. reading these blogs with an increasingly hopeful heart. Maybe something CAN & WILL be done to publicly denounce the Bush/Cheney administration.
Bush, apparently, is currently concerned about his legacy. At this time, the best legacy he can leave to this country; is to leave office with a charge of Impeachment. The lesson left to future generations about leaders who feel above the law would keep him in the history books for a long, long time.
Mr.Moyers I thank you for a very important show. I only wish those that disagree so strongly will continue to watch. You may not like to hear what is said, but at some time you may realize that it is, unfortunatly for our country, true.
Thank you PBS, Bill Moyers, and the corporate sponsor.
I will write my representatives, President, VP, Senators and Congress and support impeachment.
Share this with a friend... I'm going to send my friends the link to this program.
Bobbie
Thank you for the July 13, 2007 program with Mr. Fein and Mr. Nichols. I was at once encouraged that there are ways to combat our runaway monarchy in the White House and dismayed that these constitutional remedies are not being pursued by Congress. Tonight I wrote to my Senators and told them I want them to watch this broadcast. I told them how angry I feel about the direction our country is taking. I told them how disappointed I am that Congress has not been looking out for “we the people”. It’s time to shake things up!
In addition to the issues discussed on your program tonight, there are other deeply disturbing acts of “over-reaching”, committed by this administration. There have been many laws and regulations changed without public announcement or press coverage. This is almost surely because the administration has preferred not to call attention to them. With no one kicking up a fuss about the changes, the media has turned a blind eye to them. Although these changes are technically legal for an administration to make, viewed as a whole they represent an obvious assault on what most of us believe to be the mission of a benign government. A “laundry list” of these quiet changes in our laws and government regulations would stun the American public. An analysis of the ongoing effect of some of these changes would prove to be truly disturbing. And to go one step further, an analysis of why the Bush/Cheney administration has made these changes might be the biggest wake up call of all.
Thanks again Bill. You are a real hero. And please be careful. There are blackguards afoot.
Impeachment is the medicine for this Consitutional Crisis. There was a king George once and we got rid of him. There now appears to be another Monarch named George who must learn the same listen so that we may never have to say to our children: "it's ok to lie, it's ok to decieve, it's ok to torture, it's ok to build gulags and secret prison" None of that is ok and we should never become children ourselves, forgeting that we are citizens and that we truely hold the power if we calim to have a Democracy. Impeachment is THE ONLY remedy so that we may save ourselves and our constitution and ensure for the the rest of the decades and centuries to come that no man is above the law and the Constitution must be protected at all costs. No lousy Presidential legacy, especially not such an incompetent imposter as Mr. Bush, is worth smearing and discarding the Constitution.
thank bill moyer! you are truely a voice that this nation needs. what disgusts me most about this whole fiasco is that the new congressional leadership is doing nothing but stonewalling the country along with bush and cheney's gang. there is nothing that they have done that shows any leadership in ending the occupations of iraq and afganistan. nor do they seem interested in the least to impeach either bush or cheney.
i have formed a group called bike4peace. we will be taking our 3rd trip across the country by bicycle starting august 1st arriving in d.c. on september 22nd. we start in everett washington. this years ride is the "impeachment tour". we will be carrying petitions for impeachment of dick cheney and delivering the signitures to speaker pelosi's office in d.c. for more info about this event visit: http://bike4peace.org
and contact us.
peace,
ron toppi
There are just no words for the sheer glory of what happened across America tonight thanks to the perseverance and fortitude and BRAVERY of a true American hero. Hope deserted me after America retaliated for 911, long before I considered the possibility of our government's complicity in the event itself. I was one of the few who ached for us to pull back and reconsider our position in the world.
The forces which have joined together to destroy the essence of what America means to its citizens and to the world frankly appear too formidable to fight now. Short of a coup d'etat or revolution backed by some benevolent forces beyond our borders, I see no hope. The plotting, funding, planning, the deception and the brainwashing have been so long in the works.
And those of us who had this ideal image of our country now know how everything was lost in Dallas in 1963.
Bill, I fear they will destroy you. But without hope, there is no reason not to fight. So, along with millions of Americans tonight, I say "We have your back" and God, we love you!
From: linda@iecommerce.com
Subject: Impeachment
Date: July 14, 2007 12:02:19 AM PDT
To: moyersblog@thirteen.org
Thank you Bill Moyers for speaking with John Nichols and Bruce Fein. They brilliantly communicated that the founders of this nation sought to prevent abuse of power by an imperial president by giving us the constitutionally sanctioned "remedy" of impeachment. The majority of Americans want congress to do their job and employ this remedy now!
Many people don't yet know that some members of congress HAVE been doing their job. I don't understand how these three could have spoken for almost an hour about impeachment without mentioning that HOUSE RESOLUTION 333, ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT AGAINST DICK CHENEY, HAVE ALREADY BEEN INTRODUCED BY DENNIS KUCINICH! HRes. 333 has been waiting for further consideration by the Judiciary Committee since April 25th. Fifteen members of congress have signed Hres. 333 so far, making it easier for others to follow suit. It's a shame that the progress of HRes. 333 isn't the top story on every news program. What could be more gripping than the image of our democracy tipping dangerously toward a precipice? Will congress move to protect the laws and values that have served this nation for over two hundred years, or will they wring their hands and refuse to use their powers against executive bullies?
Week after week, subpoenas going out from congressional committees have been blatantly ignored. The Bush Administration has flatly refused to cooperate with congressional investigations, and congress has shamefully let them get away with it. With every day that congress refuses to impeach, the administration grows bolder, flouting the law with impunity. Subpoenas from an impeachment investigation cannot be ignored, and it's high time they were dealt out generously. The absolute disdain for rule of law in the executive office needs to be met with the absolute power of the constitution, or congress and the constitution will be rendered irrelevant.
When congress renounces its own powers, it denies the powers granted by the US Constitution to the people. The cowardice and dithering of congress constitutes a grave dereliction of duty that will cost them dearly at the polls. We need members of congress to honor their oaths to support and defend the constitution now. We need strong leaders to lobby their colleagues and rally support for exercising the constitution remedy of impeachment. The majority of congress has failed to make a sober and concerted effort to call this administration into account. In fact, they have worked hard to silence the voices of the American people who clamor for redress. Nancy Pelosi and others have denied Americans their right to successfully petition for a return to the rule of law, and to exercise their rights as citizens. That's dereliction of duty. At this point, I don't think it's a dishonor that can be outlived. Imagine, presiding over the destruction of democracy!
John Nichols said that members of congress have to say "I cherish my country more than my party." I feel that our constitution is our strength, and our Bill of Rights an example to the whole world. Our system of government has never fully achieved the vision held in the Bill of Rights, but it is a vision worth fighting for. We are a people who have held on to the values of truth, justice and liberty, even when our government has failed to do the same. If we lose this vision now, the whole world will be worse for its loss. We need a fighting congress now, to fight for the laws and values that have the power to unite this country. Impeachment is the tool we can use immediatley, to call this government into account in a peaceful, legal and orderly process.
Brilliant journalism, Bill! This should be required viewing for all members of Congress, every political science student in the country, and anyone with even a passing interest in the lessons of history.
As a Canadian who shares the profound concerns of so many around the world who observe the disturbing and clearly illegal behaviour of the current administration, I can only say: Get your heads out of the sand, America, if you hope to restore the respect of those who care about you and the role you could still play in making the world a better place. And when you start again to breathe the fresh air, it will become immediately obvious to you that no president and vice-president in your history have been more deserving of impeachment than Bush and Cheney. In so doing, you might once again take your rightful place among the company of civilized nations and honour the wishes of your founding fathers.
And while you're at it, think about another way of doing politics, one that does not rely upon the polarizing and inevitably stifling effects of a two-party system. Listen to what people like Ralph Nader have been saying for decades and realize that you need not be beholden to special interests and corporate money. This is indeed a lot to ask, I realize, but it may be the only way out of the political abyss you've created for yourselves. Is it any wonder there is so little trust of those you seem content to elect to "lead" you?
Mr. Moyers, I am moved to tears by your integrety and the elegance---yes, elegance---of of your honesty in examining the most pressing issues of our times. My heartfelt thanks to you and to tonight's guests.
I had recently drafted the following letter to the editor of my local newspaper. After your riveting program on the need to impeach both Bush and Cheney, I simply added Mr. Nichols' wonderful point that impeachment is the REMEDY for the crisis we now face.
Editor, The Bellingham (WA) Herald:
The Herald recently asked Voices columnists Should the United States close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba?
Did you ever think, in your wildest imagination, that such a sickening question could be asked about our country rather than a ruthless dictatorship?
How many laws and treaties have been broken by Bush and Cheney to bring us so low? It's deeply offensive that our hard-won democracy has been soiled and cast aside in service to their arrogant ambitions. They and their oily advisors (including the one just pardoned) have brought nothing but shame to our great nation.
They deserve our contempt for creating this crisis but the shame will become ours if we fail to remove them from office immediately, before they perpetrate any further damage or disgrace. Impeachment does not create a constitutional crisis; impeachment by Congress (not Judicial branch intervention) was placed in the Constitution as the only true remedy. I call on Congress to shoulder their sworn duty now.
As for the few who still stubbornly support this Administration, it's long past time for a decision: either you stand with Bush/Cheney---or you stand with the Constitution and the American people.
Thank you so much Mr. Moyers, Mr. Fein and Mr. Nichols for the passionate discussion on this evening's broadcast. I hope it will be rebroadcast in the future so I can alert family and friends. I am now firmly convinced that we need to impeach Bush and Cheney and, to that end, we all are obligated to express our desires to our Congressional representatives. We are in danger of losing our country, not only to terrorists, but to an administration that believes itself to be above the law and unaccountable to the people they serve. Especially in times of national danger, we deserve to know what and why actions are being taken. Personally, tonight's discussion was a call to action. Thank you again for saying what all Americans need to hear.
The grounds for impeachment of Bush/Cheney are numerous including actions that are immoral, illegal, incompetent, and unconstitutional. If we Americans do not exercise our right of impeachment, we allow a precedent to be set for all future administrations.
Early in 2006 I wrote a Declaration of Wrongful Representation because I felt that if I remained silent I was complicit in the abhorrent actions of the Bush administration. I hold not only President Bush responsible for mass death and destruction and loss of our constitutional rights, but Senators and Congressmen as well because of their inaction.
Calling for impeachment, I have written letters, signed petitions, sent emails and together with my friends, demonstrated daily for weeks in our city. I think that our representatives are refusing to heed the call for impeachment because they are too fearful and too concerned with political expediency and their own careers.
Bill Moyer, your interview with Bruce Fein and John Nichols was so exciting to me. I immediately thought of sending transcripts to my Senators and Congressman. I hope Americans will demand impeachment. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Moyers and PBS, for this informative, and hopefully provacative program. In this era of corporate overseeing of the public airways, and of corporate ownership of Congress, it is refreshing and hope-filling to hear again of "checks and balances". Mr. Cheney and the Puppet King must be held accountable for their actions. Secrecy is the way of a dictatorship, not a democracy.
For those who are more Capitalist leaning I ask this: if a corporation was run this way, with all the the waste and the graft and the mis-management, would this be a corporation you would have trust in?
And, in the end, isn't that what this debate is about? Is their any faith for any posititive outcome from this administration's callous disrespect for the rights of Americans or for the total disregard of the beliefs of others and the full belief in their own righteousness?
We, the people, must decide if we should stand up to terror by shining the light of freedom, or to cast the shadows of fear and terror and become them.
THANK YOU for this illuminating program! PBS and Mr. Moyers, it may be the single, most important broadcast you have ever made for the future of this country! After viewing this incredible conversation between Mr. Moyers, Mr. Fein, and Mr. Nichols, I wrote the following e-mail to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. I am sending a copy of it to my U.S. Representative, members of the House Judiciary Committee, and as many people as I know, urging them to speak out to their representatives about this. I am also e-mailing this letter to as many members of the broadcast media as I can, urging them to start covering this story, invite these speakers on as guests, get this story out!
Dear Madame Speaker Pelosi,
It is with fear and trembling--and great amazement at this fear and trembling--that for the first time in my life, I, a loyal, native-born United States citizen, write this e-mail with the fear that my own government could possibly be spying on me and could possibly take some retaliation against me for using the word "impeachment" and for voicing my opinion in this e-mail to you. I frankly almost did not have the courage to write this e-mail to you because of that fear. That is where this President and Vice-President, with their arrogance and many abuses of power and office, have put our country, our revered Constitution, our republic of freedom, and every one of the American People, including you.
It is up to you and every member of the U.S. House of Representatives to do the following, please, ASAP:
1)Please find a way to see the July 13, 2007 broadcast of Bill Moyers' Journal: Tough Talk About Impeachment. (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html) This is an hour-long conversation between Mr. Moyers, Constitutional lawyer and scholar Bruce Fein, and John Nichols of The Nation (and author of The Genius of Impeachment) about impeachment and the current state of our government. If ever there was one, hour-long conversation that was more crucial to the future of our country and the preservation of our Constitution, this conversation is it. YOU MUST WATCH THIS BROADCAST. If I had the money, I would send a copy of the DVD of this program to every member of the House. You can watch the broadcast from the Website. Please instruct every member of the House to watch this broadcast. The full transcript of the program will also soon be available on the Website.
2)Please stand up for the American people and our Constitution and have the courage to ACT NOW upon what Mr. Fein and Mr. Nichols so cogently and eloquently articulate is critical to make this a nation under the rule of law again because under this administration, it is not. Please put impeachment of the President and the Vice President on the agenda. Please become a U.S. Congress of statesmanship, move beyond partisanship, and move beyond fear of consequences for your own political careers and/or the next election. The polls are now showing that this is what We the People want our representatives to do.
Mr. Fein's and Mr. Nichols' hour-long conversation with Bill Moyers will clarify so urgently why the U.S. House of Representatives must act NOW to preserve the future of our nation, our Constitution, and the American People.
I have been posting this comment repeatedly in the NOW P&E forum, but I will repeat it again.
The people reelected Bush into office knowing in 2004 knowing everything we know today.
The half the people who voted for Bush effectively said, "Take my liberty, I have too much, and I want to give my liberty for the promise of safety, even as you promise you can't keep me safe."
The half the people who voted for Bush said, "we want you to create the conditions for US personal torturing and humiliating Arabs, and then ensuring that the US is shown repeatedly to be barbarians, and to ensure that the Arabs are so angry they will die to kill Americans."
The half the voters who voted for Bush said, "we don't like the truth, so please, please lie to us, deceive us, keep secrets from us, betray us, because we like your folksy style."
The debate in 2004 was marked by being devoid of any self proclaimed conservative, whether social conservative or Goldwater conservative, speaking out on the well known abuse of power that Bush and Cheney had already demonstrated.
And even more astounding, the conservatives and even moderate Republicans did not have the capacity to think ahead four years, or ten years or two years, and realize that soon a Democratic president would have those very powers that they were giving to President Bush. For the Republicans who stridently complain about Hillary abusing power in 1993, their failure to imagine President Hillary having the power they were giving to, not Bush, but the presidency.
I oppose impeachment for two reasons. First, impeachment will of necessity need to point out to the voters that they voted for the president for the very reasons he is being impeached. These voters will over time become very angry at the Democrats for making them face their errors, and few people are able to accept such harsh criticism without blaming the messenger.
Second, the people need to face up to the fact that their actions have consequences. Or, what goes around comes around.
Tonight's program felt like awakening after a very long sleep. I felt inspired and illuminated and shaken to my core. Recounting the program to my partner, I had chills. This exceptional discussion by three of the sanest, clearest and most honest voices I have ever heard seemed to crystallize my own priorities as nothing else has for the past decade. I understand far better what is important to me as an American and that it is ultimately my responsibility, along with all who comprise, "We the People," to remember and truly fight for the thing that makes it possible: The Constitution.
Since 7/2, I have written and called my Senators and Congressman every weekday, calling upon them to impeach Bush, Cheney AND Gonzales. It is precisely for the reasons I heard tonight. We need our laws. We need our democracy. We need to protect the Constitution.
If we are to be a democracy, we can not allow the Executive to have imperial power. It is time for remedies, not because of politics, but because we need, urgently, the strength of Constitutional wisdom, or we are lost.
More than ever, I am not willing to give up my country without a fight. Thank you, Bill Moyers, for returning to your own post. More than ever, we need you.
Outstanding program tonight. Definitely sets the standard for what we want and need from the media. Agree that a copy of this program should go to every member of Congress and that the program should be repeated as often as possible so more people can see it. And I will definitely be writing to my representatives and House Speaker Pelosi about it. Also agree that the omission of Dennis Kucinich's bill is worrisome. WHY was that not included in such an otherwise excellent program?
Oh my god, thank you so much for this program. I've never watched this show before, but now I'm going to go back and watch it online. I was so moved and motivated by the astoundingly coherent and intelligent discussion tonight. After spending the last few weeks reading the new york times, the chicago tribue, and watching cnn and msnbc I thought that calm, open discourse was dead in this country. Public programing has once again given me hope, informed me, and profoundly altered and deepened my views.
I've never been very political. It didn't make much sense to me to pay any attention because I knew the media was biased, politicians didn't represent my interests, and lobbyists for special corporate interests were really running the show. But the absurdities of war have turned that all around for me. I realized that the people in this nation have given up all their power and I want to help start reclaiming it.
Over the past few months I've been consuming increasing amounts of internet news and information about the presidential elections, Bush and Cheney's past and present follies, and the history of post WWII war in this country, all to the chagrin of my equally a-political wife. But this program really galvanized her in a way I couldn't have. Thanks for that, for opening hearts and minds. I can't say that enough.
I also want to echo something that was said on the program: the number one thing that bothers me about the media is that it is written and marketed to dumbies. I've read Kant and Heidegger, damn it! Give me some respect. It is very dangerous for any group to view itself as an "elite" and the rest of humanity as "masses". If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that no one is truly dumb. We all do dumb things, and we all hide in the safety of ignorance sometimes, but survival isn't easy and requires a lot of calculation and drive. If we the people start seeing political power as a necessity for our survival, watch out, because you'll see the political discouse raised to a level we've never dreamed was possible. And it's issues like the war, healthcare, and global climate change that can do and are doing just that.
A final plug: Go to the website IMPEACH FOR PEACE where you can actually begin the impreachment process yourself against Bush and Cheney. Do it before July 23rd and add your name to the hundreds of thousands ready to put this nation back on the constitutional track.
I wrote to both Pelosi and Boxer after watching the show tonight on KQED.
I urge you to review the Moyes "Now" program of July 13, 2007 with Bruce Fein and Jim Nichols. Before watching it tonight I disagreed with impeachment because I felt it would take too much energy and time away from other important matters of law. I am now convinced that there is no matter more crucial to our country now and in the future than stopping the rampant imperial flouting of our constitutional system of checks and balances by Bush/Cheney. Please take an hour to view this program. It will, I believe convince you, too, to take action now. I no longer believe that impeachment is off the table. Impeachment IS the table.
When my husband and I went to Wash. DC in Jan.07 to protest the war in IRAQ, along with a half million other Americans, Canadians & Europeans, I had the honor of meeting and hearing John Nichols talk about "the genius of Impeachment."
I finally got it and began to wake up and get angry not only at myself, but also at my representatives for not exercising our own responsibilities as citizens! As John said tonight, it is about choosing not to be a child and letting Bush/Cheney/government decide for us what is right and wrong. It is about being willing to be an adult and live into our citizenship and demanding our leaders honor their own oath swearing to protect and defend our Constitution, the very foundation of our country.
I think we have terribly confused this whole subject by thinking that Impeachment was just "another issue," as we added it to a long list of other important issues. It's a huge mistake to think of it as another worrisome issue. Impeachment goes far beyond that and is in a category all by itself because it is the very foundation and the heart of the Consitution itself. Impeachment is the part that the Founding Fathers labored long and hard over to always make sure there was a mechanism that the power to run this country ultimately and always resided with the people. WE have forgotten that. We all must remember it now. It is the very foundation of our country.
May God infuse some backbone and true statesmanship back into those we put into Congress in the first place. Please help them get beyond their political strategizing and precious party lines, and have the courage to be leaders -- all of them. If they would only be willing to exercise that courage, the path would be so clear! Impeach and honor the Consitution, the presidency and most of all, the people.
I have a new political mantra: "Impeachment is the cure for a Constitutional crisis. Don't mistake the cure for the disease."
Messrs. Fein and Nichols made abundantly clear the connection I've somehow missed for the last four years: It isn't simply that the Wregime have mismanaged a war of their own design, but that they have done so with such utter contempt for the laws of our land that those laws are now threatened, as is our democracy. As Mr. Nichols (I believe) said, no one gives back the tools.
Thank you, Mr. Moyers, and PBS, for refusing to let real journalism die. You do indeed, as you said, provide a public service.
I was left wondering what to do, as a citizen of a small college town in California, far from Washington. How can we galvanize the press? Surely reporters are freer agents than politicians. And somewhere I have to hope there lurks a Sam Irwin who will teach us through action what the Constitution means.
I wrote this email to Pelosi tonight after seeing the show. I hope she's listening. We need people to take action.
Dear Ms. Pelosi,
You have a Constitutional duty to start impeachment proceedings against Bush AND Cheney. I just watched Bill Moyer's Journal on PBS. He had John Nichols, author of "The Genius of Impeachment" and Bruce Fine (N & F) on the show for 50 minutes explaining why Bush & Cheney (B & C) have committed high crimes and misdemeanors, while YOU specifically have refused to bring impeachment proceedings against them. Nichols states flatly that you are wrong when you say we shouldn't impeach. If so, you and the Congress have NO courage. You are trembling while B & C run roughshod over Congress, knowing that no one will stop them. Nichols point out that the mere fact of acting like a king was spelled out in the Constitution as an impeachable offense. I hear right now that Bush is invoking executive privilege on info about Pat Tillman. There is no end to his open defiance and power grabbing. You are letting it happen. Perhaps that's why a poll out today gives Congress a 24% approval rating. Yet 54% of Americans believe we should impeach Cheney and 45% believe we should impeach Bush. How can you be so blind and so timid? Where is the outrage not only from you, but other House members? YOU were elected Speaker for a reason. TO LEAD. And to carry out the wishes of WE THE PEOPLE. YOU'VE FAILED, unless you do something courageous like starting impeachment. You're in charge. As Nichols states, Impeachment is the remedy for the disease, which is the CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS created by B & C. The time is now. As N & F point out, you can't let B & C's blatant usurpation of power to go unchecked. As N & F state, nobody in Congress understands their responsibilities under the Constitution. If you are ignorant of the Constitution and your duties under it, I suggest you sit down and read it NOW. If you do nothing else, at least watch Bill Moyer's program from tonight and give it to all the Judiciary members. It appears you and the rest of Congress are willing to be called "invertebrates" or supine as Fine describes you tonight. Get some GUTS for God's sake. YOU are the majority, not the minority party.
Until tonight, I was one of those people who, due to a lack of knowledge about impeachment as laid out in the Constitution, thought that B & C had not committed any high crimes and misdemeanors. Now N & F have enlightened me. I suggest you get enlightened yourself and that you enlighten your colleagues. If you are just too weak and not up to the task, then at least resign as Speaker so that you can allow someone else with more courage and wisdom to carry the torch for impeachment. N & F made it apparent tonight that Impeachment must happen before B & C leave office.
Please don't get me wrong. I support nothing that Bush does. B & C have solidly established themselves as the worst President and VP in history. We don't need history to tell us that. There is a greater issue here. It is the upholding of the Constitution. B & C flaunt it in the face of Congress. So far, Congress acts like B & C's lap dog. That is no way to run Congress. WE THE PEOPLE elected a Democratic Congress to ACT, not to lie down and surrender at every opportunity. It's time to make history. Ask yourself. Am I up to the task? Will I go down in history as not only the 1st woman Speaker, but also the one who led the charge to recapture Congress's duties to check and balance the Executive Branch? Or will you go down in history as the Speaker who had the chance to stop King George, just like our Founding Fathers, yet failed? I hope you will heed the call of WE THE PEOPLE. Thank you.
Thanks to you Bill Moyers and your guests. It was great to hear your lively discussion of impeachment. Lets impeach these crooks! Then indict!
I hope that you will someday, before our flagging democracy is eventually destroyed, look deeply at the many unanswered questions of 9/11, the justification for the "War on Terror", and demand a new, impartial, and empowered investigation. I'm no apologist for terrorists, but you and your guests still talk as if Al Qaeda alone perpetrated the horrific attacks, yet there is no evidence that they did so. The FBI does not list ObL on the 10 most wanted list for 9/11, due to a lack of evidence. And what happened to World Trade Center Building 7. It was a 47 story steel framed building about 100 yards from the Twin Towers. It fell completely at sometime after 5:00 p.m. on 9/11 in 6.5 seconds! It was not hit by a plane, nor was it hit by the collapsing twin towers, nor was it consumed by fire (as if fire alone could completely collapse a steel framed building). Yet this collapse was not even mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report! And why weren't the hijacked planes intercepted? They flew in the most heavily defended airspace in the world for 1.5 hours or so!!
Come on journalists, go a little farther, look a little deeper. Don't let the Power of the Myth of American exceptionalism and goodness prevent you from a fair reading of all the evidence, not just the cherry picked evidence presented by the 9/11 Commission {headed by Bush insider Philip Zelikow, who directed what to research, and what to present to the commissioners for presentation}. Our democracy depends on your unflinching journalism.
I am left with this thought after tonight's program and the comment that endless war can undermine our democracy: While they are different in purpose and methodology the "War on Terror", the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Poverty" may have this in common: They didn't work and they never ended.
Once again, thank you PBS and Bill Moyers for bringing the pertinent problems to the attention of the American public.
I couldn't agree more with both these gentlemen. I would also remove Nancy Pelosi from her office if she can't get it together to confront the House on this matter and get the ball rollingon impeaching both Bush and Cheney. Time is limited and we must move quickly to take back the power we have as American citizens and remove from power President Bush and Vice-President Cheney. They have forgotten whom they serve and what the Constitution says about their offices and the limits of their powers.
The sooner the better, and we have so little time to accomplish this task.
After the disgraceful theft of the 2000 election with the concurrence of a 5-4 Supreme court decision that was widely derided by Constitutional scholars for it's upending of the Fla Supreme Ct order, Bush and Cheney knew they would be held accountable for their negligence in not protecting America on 9/11. Couple this with a country more interested in American Idol than their constitutional rights, a republican party crazed for power and weakkneeded Democrats who fell for the Bush Cheney constitutional abuses leading to the lie that is Iraq, and you have the perfect storm for the high crimes and misdemeanors of the reactionary uber conservatives of the republican party. Even now Democrats are reluctant to cut off funding for the lie that is the Iraq War and even more reluctant to do their constitutional duty by convening a Judiciary Committee hearing to formulate Articles of Impeachment. They're scared and there isn't a backbone among them. A 24 hr news cycle and reactionary talk radio has the Democrats cowering.......but the BushCheney abuses of our govermnet are so serious and so widespread that we the people must continue to pressure our representatives to stand up for the US COnstitution and bring the dogs that are Bush and Cheney to heel.....VoteToImpeach.org
Firstly, I would like to thank Mr. Bill Moyers for the excellent show tonight. It was an eye-opener (for those who had their eyes shut), eloquent, and informative. Furthermore, it is encouraging seeing all the blog entries. I now know that there are others who are outraged by this predicament.
That being said, I would like to offer my two-cents to the discussion. The talk of perpetual war was frightening, but even more so was the last words of the Bruce Fein, when he said that the government is treating its citizens like children, and the people are accepting the role of children. What I immediately thought about when I heard these words was Aldous Huxley and his book Brave New World. A totalitarian world in which the people simply don’t care that they have lost their civil freedoms. They don’t care because they were being pampered by their government, and besides that, they were also to preoccupied with simple joys like, pop-culture, drugs, etc.
What Bush/Cheney have committed is shameful, but it is also fulfilling Aldous Huxley’s prediction, which is: What happened to monarchal kingdoms (such as Britain), the reversed effect will happen to democratic societies. In Britain the King and Queen no longer hold political power, they are only figureheads, and so Huxley predicted that the democratic societies (Such as U.S.A) would become totalitarian, while things such as elections and constitutions would become mere figureheads.
The rest may seem a little “Conspiracy Theory;” Bush has picked up from where others have left off. Just think about the income tax. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, it was never passed formally through congress!!! And now, Bush and his goons have the Patriot Act, in which they could neglect any rights as long as they suspect that you’re a terrorist (sounds kind of like McCarthyism). Question is: Why hasn’t anyone done anything about this? (Maybe everyone is lost in their own forms of Soma)
Impeachment is a way to start; however, other things must be done to ensure freedom, and instate the old American ideals, such as freedom. Certain problems must be addressed; for example, how can we, as a whole, make sure another Bush doesn’t come around? Why hasn’t the media covered anything worth mentioning? Also, we should pay attention to the Companies, and their lobbyists because when it comes down to it, it is they who have the most political influence.
Honestly, talking to my peers and associates, I feel as if the ideals which the founding fathers fought for, have disappeared, and no one is up to doing anything about it… The sixties are over, that was our last chance. Now everyone is to preoccupied with their financial lives to really give a damn about their human lives. They are more worried about debts than freedom, but when they realize that debts are oppression…
food for thought: Your civil rights are disposed of when you are under private property.
Thank you for such a powerful program. I too, believe there are a number of people in this administration who should be tried for treason...and War Crimes.
I'm sick to death of sending our young people over there to "defend us from terrorism" and in the next breath hearing of the creative ways to disqualify them for ongoing medical treatment through the Vetrans Administration. Shame, shame, shame.
The threat of terrorism overseas is not nearly as severe as the terrorism in our own government.
The clarity and passion of the conversation with Fein and Nichols was inspiring. I was thrilled to hear a discussion of such depth about the "constitutional crisis" we are now facing. The image of America around the world has plummeted in recent years, and if Americans and our legislators were to finally step in and demand accountability from the office of the presidency, this would show the strength of our political system at work.
Restoring balance and integrity in the system of government is most important, but restoring our relations internationally is also important to me.
Thank-you Bill for your excellent broadcast tonight. It's too bad no one mentioned HR 333 with 15 supporters introduced by Dennis Kucinich. Dennis is also a candidate for President. It would be great for you to have him on your show as soon as possible.
Comments
Bill Moyers
Hello and Goodbye!
I have been a long time supporter of the PBS and “Journal”. I was watching your round table discussion about the responsibility of the Journalist about asking the right question. During this discussion the Iraq war was discussed several times and only mentioning the American casualty of this illegal war. How about the demise of over millions of poor Iraqis? Do you think that, as a Journalist, you have the responsibility of reporting this crime? Or you are another one of those that media puppet. It is time for American to start reading history and start with Romans’ History if you get the point. American is not going to be destroyed by outside forces. We are doing a good job from within….
Goodbye to PBS.
Alex
Posted by: Alex | June 8, 2008 6:32 AM
Re: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2007/07/bill_moyers_essay_the_war_deba.html
We can not honestly appraise our political realities of the present by avoiding historical truths, and the resulting lessons, regarding the political realities of our past. Those amongst us that choose to rely on revisionist (information management)manipulations of historical fact, relinquish their seat at the table of honest and reasonable discussion, by so choosing. We can not hope to solve our problems by continuing to patronize intellectual charlatans, and the uninformed fools that choose to follow their lead. The very idea that said patronization is in some way mandated by some "strict constructionist" theory of the Constitutional right to free speech is sophomoric, and a product of the same shallow reasoning that encourages ideological revisionism in the first place.
Posted by: SirScud | September 7, 2007 1:48 PM
Who owns the rights to "Moyer's Journal"? Where does the money go?
Posted by: Prospector | September 2, 2007 2:45 AM
Well, Bill and all, the pot is shaken and stirred... unlike Bond. Anyway, we have lost some of our battles in Iraq but, our war on terror with our own hate and destruction may never end because it is here within us until we get a grip on ourselves and with the help of God find the peace we need to live with in a positive, proficiently run, and productive nation and world. I don't believe it's a win/lose answer to the war in Iraq or on terrorism. The element of war was changed for us at 9/11 and so must be our strategies. We must work smart to find a better sense of order taking to heart the beautiful, peace loving people we are and surface in freedom and democracy.
Posted by: Carol Huss | August 30, 2007 1:00 PM
Moyers' version of balance: Find a conservative in favor impeachment and a liberal of impeachment. Ummm...no, Bill. You're supposed to find a person in favor of impeachment and a person who isn't, and then you debate! Duh!
President Bush will not be impeached. He will not be arrested. He will not be assassinated, which has actually been joked about on Air America. You hate-spewing will lead you nowhere, libbies.
Posted by: Damail | August 26, 2007 7:49 PM
all nations conditioned by people misrepresenting God, hurling rocks ,planting land mines,no private wars for the ambitious warrior. Life moves on. When God fails the people they will always come up with the most violent solutions
Posted by: gary alan brumley | August 24, 2007 11:37 AM
Pat Dazis, your sister is right to be concerned about your mental health. Your current thinking just doesn't make sense.
You write that you want leaders who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative; and then you write that you want Republicans? If you can't see the oxymoron, you are thoroughly detached from reality. Listen to your sister; she is only trying to help you rejoin the "reality-based community."
On social issues, Republicans are notoriously illiberal. They are constantly trying to use the power of government to impose their own ideas about morality onto everyone else's private life.
On matters of fiscal policy, Republicans are notoriously unconservative. They borrow incredible quantities of money, and never repay it, burying America's future under mountains of crippling debt.
The Reagan and Bush administrations have borrowed trillions of dollars, first from Arabs and now from Communists. Don't you understand the unlimited danger of this insane borrowing? When a nation borrows more than it can ever repay, it eventually loses its sovereignty. If we continue any longer under the unconservative leadership of these big-spending Republicans, very soon the lending nations will be able to use our outstanding debt to dictate policy to us.
The Arabs and Communists and other lenders, who hold the Reagan and Bush IOUs, will be able to override the will of our voters and of our elected officials, at the federal level, and therefore also at the state and local levels. Did you see Mr. Moyers' show about what happened to the residents of a city in Bolivia, when massive public debt allowed a foreign corporation to take control of their municipal water system? If we don't want that to happen here, we need to get rid of these big-spending Republicans immediately, and start paying off the debt that they borrowed in our name.
Posted by: REM | July 29, 2007 5:54 AM
Mr. Fein conveys with impelling passion the need to protect the very constitutional principles which we now defend in Iraq as a governing ideal; perhaps democracy is more in need of attention here at home than elsewhere.
Mr. Nichols equably defuses what has traditionally been a lethal topic with scholarship and reason; the option of impeachment has never before seemed so accessible to me.
Or so necessary. As our chief executive’s privileges expand under pressure of congressional inquiry, the diminution of our liberties continues without much call for accountability.
Meanwhile, from Capitol Hill and the press to my own circle of friends and acquaintances, I see a lot of shoulder-shrugging and hear a lot of, “Yes, but—why stir things up now…Bush is on his way out…there are more important issues to deal with at the moment.”
In those instances, I am woefully unable to relay Fein’s urgency or Nichols’ assurance—they are a brilliant duo—but in regard to impeachment and civil liberties and whether or not this is the time or George W.’s is the administration, I am reminded of Rabbi Hillel’s admonition: If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?
Posted by: wendy teller | July 27, 2007 11:10 PM
Thank you Bill. Thank you for raising the bar of journalism in America. Thank you for speaking truth to power. Thank you for cutting through partisan politics to speak to the issues that really matter to Americans. But thank you most of all for your personal and professional integrity. You are a beacon to all aspiring journalists.
After only 4 months of listening to your program I have resolved to never miss an episode of the journal.
Posted by: Andrew McIntyre | July 27, 2007 12:05 PM
An illegal war based on lies; 9/11 on their watch after ignoring warnings; dismantling the constitution; secret energy meetings; outing a CIA agent; the contempt of Harriet Meyers; Alberto Gonzales and the fired attorneys poised to steal the next election; the last election stolen with fraudulent practices and caging lists; The Scooter Libby pardon; the Katrina debacle; lying about clean water and clear skies and the medicare drug plan cost; cronysim and billions of lost funds to the likes of Halliburton and KBR; the signing statements to undo legislation; the torture; the destruction of our reputation; putting us in more danger by fomenting hatred against us, and outsourcing the hunt for Bin Laden; spying on private citizens; lying about global warming; restricting the information dispersed by the Surgeon General; paying sham "reporters" to tout the "no child left behind" and other policies; continually claiming "executive priviliege" to avoid the freedom of information act; the list of felonies and treasonous acts seems endless.
We MUST impeach to take our country back, to stop the disintegration of our democracy, to show the world we are still a strong but fair nation and to see that justice and the constitution are served.
When I get pleas for money in the mail from the DCCC, or any federal-related candidacies, I write across them--NO- not until you push for impeachment! I hope you will all do the same, since "only money talks" to them these days.
Posted by: Linda | July 26, 2007 4:04 PM
I wanted to post this days ago. If it is not on point now I am sorry. Computer and online glitches.
Having listened the program about impeachment I was struck by the comments about why the democrats have done nothing to save the civil rights of the American people. The tromping on and the disregard of this revered document. The document that through out history all our soldiers have gone to war to protect.
I do not think cowardice is why the Democrats are not stopping this whittling away at the protections of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
My parents were democrats and my sister nearly passed out from the shock when she found out I had registered Republican. The very idea a Republican had stepped through her doorway was literally a shock to her. She has a mistaken idea that Republicans are all rich and not socially responsible. She knows me to be very not rich, and very willing to help anyone I can who needs it.
I am as aware and concerned over the erosion of our civil rights as anyone out there. Being a Republican I feel nothing is more important than keeping our Constitution and Bill or Rights safe. I agree that things are spinning way out of control. But make no mistake the Democrats have allowed the sundown portion on the original laws be removed.
After 9/11 everyone was on the Capitol steps basically shoulder to shoulder saying "we won't let them get away with this"! Now as things have morphed into something way beyond the intent of most lawmakers or the public, turning into something wrong that had never been envisioned. Yet Democrats remain silent for the most part.
I don't think in their wildest dreams did these people, who invented political correctness had ever thought these curtailments of our civil liberty would play right into their hands, and their agendas. I see a much more sinister reason for "the silence of the Democrats". The Democrats are the party of political correctness. They believe they are far better at deciding how to spend our money than anyone else. They envision a utopia if only they could get these "pesky people" to listen and act the way they do, or the way they think we should behave.They have never had a better chance to force "utopia" on the American people than they do now.
They know for instance that to leave Iraq now would be a death sentence for thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands with the fight that would ensue over control of the country. It would make anything that has happened so far pale by comparison. So they make noises about troop withdrawal in an attempt to assure constituents they know what the people want and are hard at work trying to make the will of the people come to pass. That they are "listening" to the people all the while throwing the heat on the president. If we have a Democratic president with a Democratic congress we are doomed. If you think our way of life is in danger now wait until those people have control with all the new powers.
Oh it will be for our "own good" of course, because we the people are after all uneducated on the things that are best for us. The socialistic leanings of the democrats are well known and well documented.
What we need in the white house is a socially liberal, fiscally conservative person. Someone who cares about people and realizes that we must meet needs, but is not willing to tax other people out of their homes creating more need. The idea that just because we have "something" doesn't mean we can afford endless tax increases. John Kennedy knew what the modern Democrats have forgotten. The more money in the private sector the better the economy functions. That is how he finally broke the recession in the early 60's. The Democrats are famous or imfamous for tax increases these days.
I fear the founding fathers are turning over in their graves.
Posted by: Pat Dazis | July 26, 2007 12:25 PM
I wanted to post this days ago. If it is not on point now I am sorry. Computer and online glitches.
Having listened the program about impeachment I was struck by the comments about why the democrats have done nothing to save the civil rights of the American people. The tromping on and the disregard of this revered document. The document that through out history all our soldiers have gone to war to protect.
I do not think cowardice is why the Democrats are not stopping this whittling away at the protections of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
My parents were democrats and my sister nearly passed out from the shock when she found out I had registered Republican. The very idea a Republican had stepped through her doorway was literally a shock to her. She has a mistaken idea that Republicans are all rich and not socially responsible. She knows me to be very not rich, and very willing to help anyone I can who needs it.
I am as aware and concerned over the erosion of our civil rights as anyone out there. Being a Republican I feel nothing is more important than keeping our Constitution and Bill or Rights safe. I agree that things are spinning way out of control. But make no mistake the Democrats have allowed the sundown portion on the original laws be removed.
After 9/11 everyone was on the Capitol steps basically shoulder to shoulder saying "we won't let them get away with this"! Now as things have morphed into something way beyond the intent of most lawmakers or the public, turning into something wrong that had never been envisioned. Yet Democrats remain silent for the most part.
I don't think in their wildest dreams did these people, who invented political correctness had ever thought these curtailments of our civil liberty would play right into their hands, and their agendas. I see a much more sinister reason for "the silence of the Democrats". The Democrats are the party of political correctness. They believe they are far better at deciding how to spend our money than anyone else. They envision a utopia if only they could get these "pesky people" to listen and act the way they do, or the way they think we should behave.They have never had a better chance to force "utopia" on the American people than they do now.
They know for instance that to leave Iraq now would be a death sentence for thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands with the fight that would ensue over control of the country. It would make anything that has happened so far pale by comparison. So they make noises about troop withdrawal in an attempt to assure constituents they know what the people want and are hard at work trying to make the will of the people come to pass. That they are "listening" to the people all the while throwing the heat on the president. If we have a Democratic president with a Democratic congress we are doomed. If you think our way of life is in danger now wait until those people have control with all the new powers.
Oh it will be for our "own good" of course, because we the people are after all uneducated on the things that are best for us. The socialistic leanings of the democrats are well known and well documented.
What we need in the white house is a socially liberal, fiscally conservative person. Someone who cares about people and realizes that we must meet needs, but is not willing to tax other people out of their homes creating more need. The idea that just because we have "something" doesn't mean we can afford endless tax increases. John Kennedy knew what the modern Democrats have forgotten. The more money in the private sector the better the economy functions. That is how he finally broke the recession in the early 60's. The Democrats are famous or imfamous for tax increases these days.
I fear the founding fathers are turning over in their graves.
Posted by: Pat Dazis | July 26, 2007 12:24 PM
Why wasn't Kucinich mentioned? He is pursuing Cheney's impeachment and these guys were repeatedly wondering why nobody was pursuing impeachment. How can such educated individuals be unaware of this fact? Also, Kucinich has consistently voted not to fund the war, another issue touched upon here without Kucinich getting a mention. Why are poor candidates so marginalized even by Bill Moyers Journal? The topic here wasn't the primaries but you can't argue that mentioning Kucinich wasn't relevant. There seems to be no hope in hell to be recognized without bending over to corporate powers and letting them stick those wads of cash in your pocket. How disheartning. By the way, I wrote one short, non-offensive post about this before and it was erased or was never even posted. This seems to have happened to a few other people, too.
Posted by: jenni | July 26, 2007 7:29 AM
I went into the wee hours, writing this thing...only to be erased...
Do you know this feeling???
It is horrible...
I will try again, because I really believe in what I am saying. I hope that I can be quick and concise.
I am so saddened to see that nobody appears to have a basic knowledge of history or the other cultures in our world. I am not tooting my own horn by saying this. But, I have had a continuing interest in this subject, and it provided me with some kind of basis from which to express what I feel that I know.
Why is America so hated?
This G.W. Bush only serves to exacerbate the problem that has already existed. To me, he is, absolutely, without a doubt, the WORST president that we ever had. I believe that he is a total ignoramus. I don't get it...Where did he come from??? Go away!!!
But, it didn't start with this sorry idiot, I must admit. Thankfully...I (we) have enough to be ashamed of, and it goes before America got involved.
It started with Britain, France, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, Germany...and let's not forget the most arrogant and racist of them all: Spain...who destroyed a legacy of the new world, forever. It will never be seen again. It is lost, forever. Forever is a
VERY long time.
We inherited a new legacy...the legacy of the European Colonialists, who, with some kind of rationale, decided to "conquer" and suppress the rest of the world (previousely known as the THIRD WORLD or DEVELOPING NATIONS). Why? For their own selfish gain.
They exploited, abused, raped and pillaged the "possessions" that they claimed until they had to relinquish control, either by rebellion of the indiginous people or by some kind of lop-sided treaty that left those former colonyies in eternal "debt" to their overseers.
I am absolutely ashamed to be a descendant of one of these European cultures on the basis of this. They were responsible for leaving behind an enduring HATRED that these people (our fellow human beings, I might add) have maintained for them and of us because of this total racist disregard for their cultures, their beliefs and their ways of life.
And, unfortunately, a MOSTLY IGNORANT America picked up in the mid to late 1940s where these European bigots left off...looking only through a GREEN looking glass:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Money, money, and more money!! Profits.
Nothing else has a value, or meaning to them.
The American authorities that we have allowed to occupy the positions of power have taken control. It is a new form of colonialism that has only stunted the existance and growth of that which humanity truly deserves to experience: the TRUE globalism of love and mutual respect, of harmony and cooperation, of peace and understanding among all peoples.
Go ahead, roll your eyes at this, and continue to accept the condition of struggle, violence, and destruction that slows the true development and growth of mankind.
Like Diogenes, I am merely seeking the honest...blog (yes, honesty can help, but...) I am seeking a forum in which others can converse with me about what I believe are the REAL issues of this whole catastrophe.
I have taken the time to read all of these posts. Sometimes, I feel that, like other blogs, people just like to vent their spleens without having an intelligent dialogue. Please, prove me wrong.
The American culture remains too arrogant and racist to me. And to make matters worse, it appears that they don't like "education". They don't want to take the time to know about the world around them.
This nation has been in existance for 131 years, and yet, we have an administration that hasn't even taken the time to hire translaters so that, at least, they can know what those "BARBARIANS" are talking about.
Talk to me...I will listen.
Thank you,
Ron Slay
Posted by: Ron Slay | July 26, 2007 1:23 AM
I mispelled a word in a previous post on :War decorates, celebrates ,confiscates elaborates,propagates tombstone gardens
War is the patented right handed over from all the Gods from every nation...a systemic conditioning scribed in the roots of all the nations...earth is three fourths water which will eventually give us all a good wash cycle,baptise us all undivisable according to the prexisting law of Earth
Posted by: gary alan brumley | July 25, 2007 11:47 AM
Every elected official who voted for the "Patriot Act" has broken their sworn oath to uphold the constitution and to protect the citizens it protects. All elected and appointed government officials are sworn to uphold the constitution. Judges and represenatives who have ignored the writ of law should be immediately removed from their positions and possibly crimilized for their level of breach of duty.
Every official who continues to support and protect these Criminals of the State
are accessories to this High Crime against our Constitutional Protections
We need far more then just impeachment. We are a war
The enemy is domestic
We the People
Will
Take it Back
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants and Patriots, it is it's natural manure." T. J. some time ago
"The Stench has become so high in Rank, that those who love this land will ensure it's fertilization." K.M. now
Posted by: Kent Mayfield | July 24, 2007 1:48 PM
Can't answer for the past...
but out of the mouths, video
tapes, DVD, etc., of the Jihadists, the reasons are
rooted in the 7th century
and their religious worldview which requires that the world be brought to
submission to Allah by all means necessary...all of this was long before the British, Bush, Halliburton,
Exxon and so on. The west
will allow itself to be destroyed if we do not stop
our cultural self-loathing
and start placing blame and responsibility on those who
intentionally target innocent men, women and children for murder in order to attack the west and
gain a pass to paradise.The
truth of history is that the
Jihad preceded the Crusades.
Posted by: uga6 | July 24, 2007 10:18 AM
Has anyone ever considered the real root causes of this entire dilemma?
Does anyone care?
Nobody in our American society likes to listen to it, or even think about it. Why? Because it goes against our basic ideals.
"America is great."
"America is the best."
"We have the most TV sets."
We have the most
money."
We have the most power and influence in the world."
We have the greatest comfort."
"All of the rest of them are envious of us."
"That is why they hate us. They are just jealous - envious of what we have, and what we enjoy, and what we have accomplished."
HOW MISTAKEN WE ARE!!!!!
HOW WRONG WE ARE!!!!!
There are people out there that have a culture and a way of life that they have lived for generations. They were successful because they survived, like the rest of us. And, all you do is belittle them, disregard them, disrespect them - as you have for years - compounded by your abuse and exploitation - you rape them of their natural resources and their talents - for your own monetary gain.
You draw their borders, as if you were some kind of authority, separating a people that belong together, putting people together that need to be separate and have their own identity.
This is the racism of the European Colonialists.
Who was that British bastard who decided that the borders between Pakistan and Afghanistan had to be drawn so that these people "could be properly divided and suppressed"?
Who was the true jackass that took it upon himself to draw the borders of Jordan, to make a trapezoidal panhandle plot of land that made a convenient road to India? For who? Just the white exploiters?
Who divided Africa in such a sadistic way in order to create so much horrible suffering among those people?
And, America picked up where its predecessors left off, in 1946/1947/1948
only with "cigarettes" and their other profitable contaminates.
This is not the America that I believe in.
I believe in the true America, the true democracy that does not enforce this believe upon others - at the point of a gun!!!
Democracy must be loved. Democracy must be cherished.
Democracy must be valued.
Those of reason must embrace it, freely, unconditionally, voluntarily. You cannot enforce it with the facades of purple fingers, or whatever contrivance that you choose to invent.
A people have to understand it, and this only comes naturally.
If not, leave them alone.
My God, listen to some form of reason.
Please, spend some time to think.
As truthfully as I can possibly be,
Ron Slay
Posted by: itRon Slay | July 24, 2007 1:00 AM
War decorates, celebrates ,confiscates elaborates,propagates tombstone gardens
War is the patented right handed over from all the Gods from every nation...a sytemic conditioning scribed in the roots of all the nations...earth is three fourths water which will eventually give us all a good wash cycle,baptise us all undivisable according to the prexisting law of Earth
Posted by: gary alan brumley | July 23, 2007 11:22 AM
Everyone assumes that an invasion of privacy is eminent. Let me tell everyone that your privacy at this time is over. I have had my privacy invaded for the last two years. Invaded in such a way that I have no one to report this too. I can't go anywhere without being subjected to the evils that I have had to live with. The time will come when more of you will feel and experience this gravest of injustice. Your home is no longer a sanctuary. These people have gone as far as to electronically monitor every aspect of my life. I hope someone with authority reads and investigates and find a solution for this abuse. I know my request is strange because it is the same authority that is abusing me that I have now ask for help.Hopeless!!!
Posted by: H.Levy | July 22, 2007 5:32 PM
I would like to ask another question about this impeachment issue as it pertains to the war, intelligence gathering, and the apparent violations of civil liberties of detainies, etc.
I agree with the argument that these represent serious infringements to the constitutional guarantees that have been established for our democracy. I believe that something should be done about this soon - very soon.
The possible causes for this abberation at this time in our history:
Has the nature of war and, in general, conflict between peoples and cultures, whether political, religious or otherwise, changed the landscape in which governments must function in order to address the issues and problems that arise?
Are we at a stage of "floundering" - groping - for new ways to meet these mutated challenges to our way of life?
For example, the nature of warfare, alone, has changed over the millenia, and we can see this steady evolution (or devolution, if you will) of how armed struggles are conducted. In centuries past, armies faced each other on the battlefield in brightly colored uniforms and regalia, hurling weapons at each other, point blank, to see who would kill each other first.
When our Minute Men in the revolution intelligently hid behind trees and rocks to protect themselves against British bullets, we were regarded as "cowardly" and going against the conventions of war by the British. But, it was the next natural step in the evolution of warfare. You fight to win, and you fight to survive.
Guerrilla warfare introduced the elimination of anything that would identify the opponent on the battlefield as the enemy, such as the uniform. This was the next step in the development of warfare that gave one side an advantage to win.
Now, the enemy could be a person in plain clothes - ANYWHERE - walking down the street in your own hometown, whether it be Baghdad or Brooklyn.
The new kind of warfare has erased borders.
We don't go to a "Viet Nam" to fight insurgents. They come to us and kill us in our back yards.
How does a nation that is concerned about its security address this problem?
It appears that our administration, however wrong they are in the process, is groping - rather stupidly, I must say, for a solution, disregarding the constitutional and legal parameters within which they must work.
They even went so far as to challenge the Geneva Convention.
It is anathema for civilized governments to go against civilized principles upon which these very civilized systems of governing mankind were founded.
Plato was right when he said, "Only the dead have seen the end of war." But a Geneva Convention can serve to reduce the level of suffering and to uplift humanity to a higher more civilized level than before - at least.
Our founding fathers, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay didn't just "banty about lofty ideals" to make themselves look good. They seriously thought and developed ideas that propelled mankind onto a higher level of government through The Federalist Papers.
Our Constitution must not be trampled upon by Presidents and Vice Presidents who appear to be trying to arrive at a set of solutions to new problems that the world is faced with.
If it is allowed to continue, I believe that we would be reducing ourselves to the level of our adversaries.
I welcome your responses.
Thank you,
Ron Slay
Posted by: Ron Slay | July 22, 2007 5:06 PM
I watched the discussion with John Nichols and Bruce Fein on impeachment.
I would like to raise questions that may contribute to this issue:
The latest National Intelligence Estimate claims that Al-Qaida has rebuilt, and is probably in a stronger position to attack the U.S.
The Homeland Security Secretary, Michael Chertoff, has a "gut" feeling that the U.S. will be attacked this summer by terrorists.
Yet, the administration via G.W.Bush continues to claim that we are in Iraq and fighting them there so that we don't have to fight them here.
Isn't this a contradiction?
If so, who is lying either about the threat to our security or about the purpose of the war?
If our intelligence community is, once again, NOT intelligent about the reality of the threat, it is one thing.
But, if the President makes this, yet another, claim to justify this war
is he lying or making another falsification to justify the war?
Does this constitute more grounds for impeachment?
I welcome all comments and arguments in response these questions.
Thank you,
Ron Slay
Posted by: Ron Slay | July 22, 2007 3:58 PM
(This is a correction to my previous post). I cannot, nor can anyone else, possibly predict the long term implications of this administration. Our posterity will be able to see said consequences, but certain things will be lost to history and it is our duty to uncover these secrets and to ensure justice is served. We have, in my opinion, done so poorly at this point in mainstream media outlets. We know about Guantanamo, torture, the firing of federal prosecutors for political purposes, lies about WMDs and links to 9/11 (an event with its own questionable story), pay cuts and bad health care for troops, the spending of over 12 trillion dollars (a sum greater than all other 42 presidents combined), refering to the "war on terror" (a joke as well) as a crusade-the Christian word for holy war, a war on freedom and liberty itself through a war on drugs, a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, all non-Christians, and sinister mentalities of operation such as "father knows best," ('father' being the government from the word fatherland- a word Hitler was quite fond of and the translation of the Latin word "patrio" the root word of patriot something that Bushies often accuse people like me of not being so I guess they're right about that) and security first, civil liberties second, and an effort to expand corporate America by leaving workers and the middle class- the people that were always taxed in a time of crisis- behind. Those are a small scratch on the surface of what we KNOW, so imagine what we don't know! The president, VP, some of his cabinet members, Paul Wolfowitz, and others involved in this administration and its wrong doings should go to jail for corruption and treason among other things because at this point impeachment is insufficient.
Posted by: Matthew M. Gardner | July 22, 2007 3:54 PM
I cannot, nor can anyone else, possibly predict the long term implications of this administration. Our posterity will be able to see said consequences, but certain things will be lost to history and it is our duty to uncover these secrets and to ensure justice is served. We have, in my opinion, done so poorly at this point in mainstream media outlets. We know about Guantanamo, torture, the firing of federal prosecutors for political purposes, lies about WMDs and links to 9/11 (an event with its own questionable story), pay cuts and bad health care for troops, the spending of over 12 trillion dollars (a sum greater than all other 42 presidents combined), refering to the "war on terror" (a joke as well) as a crusade-the Christian word for holy war, a war on freedom and liberty itself through a war on drugs, a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, all non-Christians, and sinister mentalities of operation such as "father knows best," ('father' being the government from the word fatherland- a word Hitler was quite fond of and the translation of the Latin word "patrio" the not being so I guess they're right about that) and security first, civil liberties second, and an effort to expand corporate America by leaving workers and the middle class- the people that were always taxed in a time of crisis- behind. Those are a small scratch on the surface of what we KNOW, so imagine what we don't know! The president, VP, some of his cabinet members, Paul Wolfowitz, and others involved in this administration and its wrong doings should go to jail for corruption and treason among other things because at this point impeachment is insufficient.
Posted by: Matthew M. Gardner | July 22, 2007 3:47 PM
A message that I posted on this blog on July 20th has disappeared. There were no curse words or any other reason for it to disappear, and I agree with Linda that someone or something is sinister about the fact that a message that supports impeachment of Bush and Cheney is deleted somehow. PBS, are you allowing messages to be edited or deleted?
Posted by: Ruth Cavanaugh | July 22, 2007 2:54 PM
Impeachment, I can't Ford that after he took out the bite and was named the great mediator for the act.
The Haig is the place for Bushco, a true repentance in the eyes of the world for our 'Profit of Doom,' anything else will be carnival and have no effect in bring America back to its moral leadership.
So repent America we need a new Neuralburg. with Bush, Chainey, Rices Condolences, Ashcraft, Rumfilled, Seedy Gonzales Wolfa.....Et Al, as the star of that new reality show.
Think it impossible, so did a certain Mr Hilter who had the most powerful and brutal machine of mass destruction at the time.
Posted by: W. C. Trout | July 22, 2007 2:17 PM
Just watched "Meet the Press". If the public does not very vociferously INSIST on impeachment IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. It has to be done DIRECTLY if it is to happen. The normal processes will not work. Only the pressure of direct mass action will work. The democrats will NOT move without it. The republicans will resist even with mass action unless it is massive and overwhelming. The congress is in a catatonic state. Ambition, or, at least self preservation, is trumping [the abstraction of?] protection of the constitution.
Posted by: POLpursun | July 22, 2007 11:18 AM
Thank you for the 7-13 show on impeachment. It touched me deaply as it seems to have for many on this blog. I'd like to respond to this comment "Is impeachment really possible given these grim circumstances, and if not, what is the alternative to it, and how do we start working on that?"
I don't think impeachment is politically feasable at this time, and I would not blame the advocates for Bill Clinton's impeachment. A lot has happened since 2000 to compromise the indegrety of our legislative and judical branches of government; all in tiny steps. I'm particularly concerned with the effects of jurymandering (see a good New Yorker artical). As for what we can do, I take the long view -- elect a better president this time around and hope they get the chance to appoint new members of the Supreme Court, etc. What we have lost in the last decade is fundimental and will not be recovered easily or quickly.
Posted by: Alan Jones | July 22, 2007 1:32 AM
Bill - Thank you so much for this episode.
The most important point I gathered from this episode was this: If we do not impeach Bush and Cheney NOW, we are allowing future presidents to do the same criminal activities. Illegal wire tapping, a war under false pretenses, disregard for our constitution, torture sites and disregard for human rights, outright lying to the American people. Bush/Cheney are setting a precedent that will be difficult to change later. It's not about Republican or Democrat, or liberal vs conservative, or even al qeida. It's about our country's foundation being dismantled.
PS. It baffles me that people still point to what Clinton did or did not do as an argument against critisism of Bush/Cheney or impeachment. If anything, it should be an argument FOR impeachment. If Clinton can be impeached for lying about fallatio, then surely, Bush/Cheney's actions are impeachable.
Posted by: C. Hamilton | July 22, 2007 12:21 AM
I cried twice, Diane, once when our local PBS affiliate took Bill Moyers off the air and again, when they replaced him with that dull twit, Tucker Carlson. 'Twas a black day, indeed...
Posted by: J.L.Stone | July 21, 2007 4:31 PM
uga6-
why aren't you fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Please go to Iraq with your President of war and fight the Jihadist (as you put it). They are not jihadist, they are simply fighting the occupation of their country.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19859124/
Posted by: anon | July 21, 2007 3:35 PM
I do not agree with most of the posts on this blog, but I will set that aside to appeal again to all readers
regardless of political affinitity to start thinking like Americans and start thinking in terms of defending our way of life against the very real threat of global Jihad against western values we hold gear such as freedom of speech, worship, etc. Whatever threat you may see in the Repblicans, Bush administration, conservatives, Christians, etc., pale in comparison to the brutality of the 7th century throwbacks who view killing westerners as a path to paradise. Their stated intent is the total submission of the west to their way of thinking, dressing, living, behaing, and worshiping. Liberals will not be tolerated under their regime. Why not take them at their word and defend our freedom?
Posted by: uga6 | July 21, 2007 12:44 PM
Mr. Moyers, I was already in favor of impeachment for Bush and Cheyney before watching your excellent program on the subject. But your guests' argument for impeachment was so cogent and strong that I immediately wrote my Congresswoman and my Senator, asking them to begin impeachment
Posted by: Donald Fox | July 21, 2007 5:12 AM
Those who fear impeachment are those who fear the truth.
Posted by: Bruce Luecke | July 20, 2007 11:44 PM
Ok what is the world coming to when the president of the United States and Cheney break laws and get away with it? Get real President Bush, breaks laws and makes his own up as he goes along. It is quite scary to imagine what he might be up to next. Imagine he chooses not to leave the whitehouse and become another Fidel Castro? Scary. Food for thought.
Posted by: NR | July 20, 2007 11:19 PM
This morning, as I read the blog comments made in response to one of the best shows I have seen, the Bush administration has declared that the Justice Department will never be allowed to pursue contempt charges put forth by Congress against administration officials once the president has invoked executive privilege.
One cannot but deduce from this and other numerous such examples of hubris, arrogance, and calculated encrouchment on the rights provided under the Constitution, that the goal is to drain all effective power from the Legislative branch by forcing a Supreme Court case which has the potential to institutionalize and cement absolute power in the Excecutive Branch.
Since the Legislative branch is the representative branch, how will "we the people" plan to fight for our right to representation?
After viewing Mr. Moyer's program, I have decided that indeed, impeachment of both Mr. Cheney and Mr. Bush is required. Silent rage is no longer an option.
Posted by: elizabeth | July 20, 2007 3:32 PM
NHGranite,
This has been my "gut feeling" for a long time now, yet it is so very chilling to read this article. I see the many steps over many years that went into creating this nightmarish scenario, but still cannot comprehend how on earth could it have come to this, here in the U.S.A. May God help us all.
Posted by: Diane | July 20, 2007 3:01 PM
Bill,
When you went into retirement, I cried. Thank God you are back. Another wonderful commentary.
Posted by: Bish | July 20, 2007 2:53 PM
If you were trying to scare me, it worked. Then I read this from Paul Craig Roberts:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Oldline_Republican_warns_somethings_in_works_0719.html
and started to realize how tenuous our control of our own government is when there are those who seem to be dedicated to subverting the constitution who should indeed be impeached. could the true terrorists be our own leaders? or am I just being made so paranoid and powerless that I'll just go shopping instead. No. God protect our Constitution, with our help.
Posted by: NHGranite | July 20, 2007 12:51 PM
I wonder if Bruce Fein acknowledges that his previous actions may have served to trivialize impeachment. Does he see a difference between lies, how ever often repeated, intended to hide embarrassing but not unconstitutional sexual activity between consenting adults, and lies intended to hide aggrandizement of personal power and subverting of the Constitution? Mr. Fein helped put the nation through that upheaval so recently, for so petty a reason. Now, when we desperately NEED a remedy for Presdential misdeeds against the nation and not just a spouse, we are understandably reluctant to undertake it all again. Any regrets for crying wolf, Mr. Fein?
Posted by: Susan O'Shaughnessy | July 19, 2007 10:08 AM
The all-nighter by the Dem=
led Senate was so thrilling
and inspirational and must have struck fear in the hearts of Jihadists all over the world...the utter
courage...the incredible
hard work and sacrifice on
behalf of the American people (I get chill bumps
just remembering it!). A dose of well-deserved satire for the cluelessly
out of touch democrats and
republicans, too...news flash: probably half of
working Americans and all
of the military pull all-nighters regularly just to
take care of their families
and our freedom. Thankfully, the August recess is near and all those
hardworking congress people
can go home and raise more
money. At least America is
safe when they are away from
the senate and house chambers!
Posted by: uga6 | July 19, 2007 1:52 AM
Bill, thank you for your past and present efforts to once again restore this country to a land of opportunity for all; a place where we can once again be a beacon of freedom to the rest of the world.
I have had the greatest respect for PBS over the last forty years and its roll of providing Americans with high quality programming that includes entertainment, education, and a window to their government without partisan filters.
However, the fact that you now have to privately fund your show to have the ability to speak your mind is very disturbing. The right wings intrusion into the board room of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting a few years ago seems to have had a lasting effect on the current PBS Management, or is it the extreme rights continued strangle hold on our country. I guess I would be more concerned about this situation if this affliction hadn’t also infected a majority of the main stream media in this country.
In your essay on the war debate, you mentioned the coverage that PBS provided in the 1970s during the Viet Nam War and Watergate hearings. I still remember those events and how they gave great clarity to both issues that the print media or commercial television of that time could hardly be expected to provide. Over thirty years later and we shouldn’t expect anything less from the Public Broadcasting Service or the commercial television networks of today that operate on our publicly owned bandwidth !
Posted by: Richard | July 18, 2007 11:46 PM
About an hour ago, I posted a message in this thread, was informed that it would appear in a few minutes, and then it didn't. I'm checking to see if it had been rejected for some reason (I can't imagine why your site would reject it, but I CAN imagine why our illegal national surveillance system would.)
Posted by: Linda | July 18, 2007 2:52 PM
Thanks for another very good, balanced show, Mr. Moyers. It's very interesting to read the comments in this thread from those who continue to stand behind their man in the White House.
Their message, as stated in a NYT editorial, is: "Be very afraid. And don't question the president."
Fortunately, more and more Americans are waking up to the reality of this message: "Be very afraid. And DO question the president." And in some cases, this message: "Be very afraid, BECAUSE OF the president."
This president's policies and actions continue to increase the threat posed by fundamentalist terrorism to our country, as well as to the rest of the modern world. The sooner we excise this threat from its position of power, the sooner we can finally get down to the business of effectively and intelligently dealing with the danger of religious extremism, and its access to WMDs.
Thank-you again. Your shows ARE balanced. What is NOT balanced in this country is the result of the lawbreaking, the distortion of the truth, and the outright lies of the b/c administration, in its quest to wield political power at the expense of our American values, our national security, and our international standing.
How about a show on the political and psychological motivations of Bush and Cheney (as separate people, not as a team)? Who are these guys? Where did they come from? What influenced their thinking?
The truth about their pasts, their upbringings, their life-changing experiences in and out of politics, paints very interesting and provocative pictures, pictures that are very different from the ones that got them enough votes in 2000 and in 2004 for Rove to mastermind the rest of the votes needed to get them elected.
Posted by: Linda | July 18, 2007 1:49 PM
Re: July 13 telecast: Bravo, Bravo, Bravo for you and youer guests stating so eloquently the case for impeachment of both George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. These two men have done more to destroy this country than El Quida could ever envision. The most important conclusion reached in the discussion, I believe, was in the danger of setting a precedent if impeachment is not sought. I heartily believe that the majority of the country would support and rally around Congress if it had the guts to vote on a Bill of Impeachment. Darlene Cox
Posted by: Darlene Cox | July 18, 2007 1:45 PM
Neil Johnson: Thank you for your eloquent discourse revealing the true soul of so many Republican Elitists. Either your satire is woefully flawed or your arrogance is an insult to the American Image.
Thank you Bill Moyers for giving Mr. Johnson and his ilk the opportunity to show themselves to the rest of the world. Democrats' tolerance for this churlish attitude is why it is so difficult to move our Society forward, but we are dedicated to Liberty and Justice FOR ALL.
Posted by: Goldie | July 18, 2007 11:34 AM
To the Editor:
Unfortunately, most politicians today, whether in national office or aspiring to be, still refuse to even comment on this issue. We have a presidential campaign where the press discusses how much money candidates have raised, as a testament to their popularity! While the impeachment process is long overdue and in fact treason is more apt, unless there is a true stateswoman or statesman in a position of power who recognizes the critical Constitutional setting we now find ourselves in, we, the people, are in trouble.
It is my opinion that unless Americans with influence, regardless of political party, step forward and demand that Pelosi and Congress address this issue, our nation as we know it today will move in an irreversible direction to oligarchy! How to reach the hearts and minds of these people is the question?
Posted by: Bill Sortino | July 18, 2007 11:03 AM
I would like to correct one statement in my remarks, and stand by another.
The correction: President Bush's father declared in 1992, not 2002, that the American Way of Life is not negotiable. To me this just showed his remarkable prescience. He knew long before 9/11 that we would soon have to take bold steps to preserve our way of life. Our way of life is based on constant economic growth, and energy and human capital are the life blood of our economy.
I stand by my statement that President George W. Bush was correct to launch a pre-emptive war. It was not a war of aggression, but of national interest. As the price of oil goes up because supply cannot meet demand, oil-rich countries must not be allowed to use oil revenues to build up their military or aquire weapons of mass destruction which could be used against us. If the sanctions had been lifted, Saddam Hussein would have done this. Now we have the problem of the Iranians, who are using their oil wealth to build a nuclear bomb. Furthermore, Venezuela has even threatened to not sell oil to us since they have enough customers elsewhere in the world, like China. And do I need to mention oil-wealthy but increasingly hostile Russia?
Once the Iraqi parliament passes their new oil law, we won't have to worry that they will use revenues from selling their natural resources to finance a military hostile to our interests. Instead, most of those revenues will go to our western multinational corporations and their shareholders. Isn't it better that our investors receive a substantial return on their investment to extract the oil from their ground instead of those countries getting money for the oil, which they could use to acquire WMDs?
I trust that Vice President Cheney's Energy Task Force (I don't need to know who they are) will make the right decision soon about how to secure our access to the energy resources of Iran, and stop their nuclear program at the same time. It's clear that we need a energy-rich backup country like Iran soon, since Iraq won't be pumping enough oil to meet our projected energy needs in the next decade and there's a chance we might lose Saudia Arabia.
In reply to the comment that we have "murdered hundreds of thousands" to "steal their oil," that is the fault of them for resisting the gift we tried to bring their country. They could have had the benefits of capitalism. Instead of fighting us, many Iraqis could have already been working for us in Exxon or Shell or BP's oil fields. By now some workers even could have saved enough money to become small investors themselves. The loss of life is regrettable, but they do not yet seem to know how to nurture an entrepreneurial class.
As for whether my children should enlist in the military to fight in Iraq or whatever country we annex next, I favor the solution of my wife who is a high school teacher. Discipline is such a problem in the schools now, that we need a military draft based on reverse merit. Young men and women who do not finish high school with a "C" average or better, should be drafted into military service. That would concentrate the minds of our young people and help us compete better against the increasingly better-educated hordes of China and India. (Have you ever read Tom Friedman's columns?)
In any case, my children are all "A" students and so would not need to serve. They will be of greater value to their President in a think tank than in an armored tank.
Impeachment is a distraction from the real issue of American access to global resources to preserve our way of life. This is not some fictional movie, but a real existential struggle. Think about that the next time you step in your car and drive or fly anywhere, or use your airco this summer. Thank you PBS and Bill Moyers for this space to have a frank discussion. I think that we as Americans can handle the truth.
Posted by: Neil Johnson | July 18, 2007 7:44 AM
2007 7 17
To the Editor,
It is tragic to hear, “Our Country is in a Constitutional Crises.. that will change the nature of our democracy”! It is tragic that our men and women , are placed in the middle east “amphitheater” - “the meat grinder,” to defend their hearts and souls “based on a policy that is fundamentally flawed”!
The Comptroller general “ ... is urging the people to wake up”. He states, “ the biggest ECONOMIC PERIL facing the nation is being ignored”! He states “the most serious threat to
the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Afghanistan or Pakistan but our own fiscal irresponsibility"! He states, “a tsunami of spending that could swamp our ship of state”!
There are “ 47 million Americans who walk a daily tightrope, with no safety net to break their fall
into medical and financial catastrophe”, add 78 million baby boomer who
would retired in the next 2 to 3 years with little or no insurance and “the ship is swamp”.
Lack to apply and enforced the Constitutional rules is a breach of duty!
The live lost of 3613 and others would not be in vein when the impeachment Constitutional remedies are implemented and to bring the troops home.
The “Destruction, Crises and Irresponsibility are result due to lack of self discipline”!
Posted by: Chris | July 18, 2007 1:35 AM
In the words of Will Durant--impeach them, hell, impale them.
Thank you for a great piece of journalism, Bill. I'm passing this along liberally.
For a refreshing voice in 2008, Dr. Ron Paul has consistently voted according to the Constitution. He voted against the war, against the so-called Patriot Act, against all tax hikes, does not participate in the pork barrel retirement plan for Congress, has never taken a junket, donates part of his Congressional pay to the national treasury. He would restore Constitutional rights, get rid of the Federal Reserve (private bankers, nothing "federal" about it), and the unconstitutional income tax. Check him out online, you won't hear about him in the supine (loved it) media.
Posted by: PJ | July 17, 2007 10:47 PM
WHAT A JOKE OF A SHOW. SO ONE SIDED THAT ANYONE WOULD SEE RIGHT THRU IT. BUT AS YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE MANY ON THE LEFT THAT DO NOT KNOW WHY WE ARE AT WAR. MAYBE THEY SHOULD SEE SOME OTHER SHOWS THEN ONES SO LEFT.
Posted by: dave | July 17, 2007 10:18 PM
One thing that might help improve this conversation is to stop referring to the people in Washington as "our leadership". They are not our leadership. They are our representatives.
Posted by: Anson Jew | July 17, 2007 10:08 PM
This is what I sent to my Rep. Von Hollen. "We the people..." starts with WE the people! Programs as wonderful as this "can lead us to water but can't make us drink.." that is our CHOICE.
Dear Representative Von Hollan,
I am writing you to immediately and without delay open a joint investigation into potential high crimes and misdemeanors against President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales and any and/or all appointees and hires. President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales, appointees and/or hires has repeatedly shown at all levels that they have not executed their oath of office to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic.
President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales, appointees and/or all government positions that require an oath to the Constitution has persistently chosen their allegiance to their ideology over their oath to preserve and protect the Constitution in spirit and/or legally. They have also chosen appointees and hires on the basis of this loyalty over choosing competency, qualifications and/or what is best for the common good of the United States and their willingness to violate and/or manipulation of their the oath of office.
President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General Gonzales, appointees and/or hires have repeatedly demonstrated both contempt and /or the strong appearance of bending and/or violating and/or acting in a unprecedented amount of secrecy in all that they have done while in office. This has put the Constitution of the United States and its citizens in serious and dangerous peril.
I believe that our Constitution is strong enough to withstand the need for this unprecedented impeachment procedure and outcome. The wisdom of our forefathers has given us a Constitution that will survive a dictatorial evolution and/or interpretation. As long as all branches of government, the press and/or its citizenry fulfill their responsibilities that the Constitution guarantees to them to protect and preserve the Constitution of the United States of America. The Constitution is not strong enough to survive any branch of government that acts in spirit and/or legally above the law.
I the people believe the Country will survive and be stronger during and after this procedure and outcome because we have fulfilled our right and responsibility to preserve the Constitution. We also believe that the majority of members from all branches of government and the press are loyal above all to the Constitution and will fulfill their right and responsibility. For failure of one and/or any not to take on his/her duty/duties to protect the Constitution will have the same effect of irreversible damage to the Constitution and its citizens from henceforth.
Sincerely,
Eileen Harris
Montgomery County, MD
Posted by: Eileen | July 17, 2007 3:08 PM
I would like to purchase a copy of Bill Moyers program oon Friday night 07/13/07 Please direct me to the proper area. Thank you...
Posted by: June Thomas | July 17, 2007 1:58 PM
I have yesterday sent my views on the subject to Mr. Hollen of DNCC as follows:
Dear Mr. Hollen
I am very disappointed with the way things are being handled by the Congress (both Houses). THIS IS EVIDENT BY THE LATEST JOB APPROVAL POLLS - CONGRESS'
@ 24% IS EVEN LOWER THAT PRESIDENT BUSH'S WHICH IS 31%.
The Democrate Party supporters, having done their share to elect a majority in both houses in the last elections, find that the things have remained almost unchanged. The White House continues with its failed "Stay the course" policy in Iraq while our gallant soldiers (most of them in late teens and early twenties) are being killed, maimed and their lives permanently damaged to satisfy the whims of an stubborn "intelligence-challenged" adminitration whose activities are, on a number of occasions, seem to be bordering on being criminal and illegal.
I request that, in order to keep your loyal supporters base intact, the Congress must become more aggressive in dealing with the Administration by pursuing an Impeacment Resolution for the failed policies; stonewalling all attempts of Congressional Oversight and Investigations of Administration's activities, and arrogant disregard of the recommendations of "9/11 Commision" and "Iraq Study Group", etc. This is very important for success in next years Congressional and Presidential Elections.
Please convey my views to the party leadership for immediate and positive action. Thanks.
Yours truly
(Abrar A. Zuberi)
Posted by: Abrar A. Zuberi | July 17, 2007 12:14 PM
Thanks for the show. It helped me put the matter in realistic perspective.
What I learned:
o Impeachment isn't an option. It's a responsibility. The government does not work unless we fulfill our responsibilities.
o Impeachment isn't a "symbolic gesture." It's a legal, constitutional, remedy. It’s in House member’s job descriptions.
o Convenience is not a decision point. We cease to be a nation of laws if we oppose abuses of power only when it is convenient.
Posted by: Wes Decker | July 17, 2007 7:46 AM
Neil Johnson, thank you for your honesty. It's very refreshing to encounter a Bush supporter who is honest enough to say that he believes that the cold-blooded premeditated murder of hundreds of thousands of men and women and children, for no reason except to steal their oil, is fine-and-dandy.
I can suggest only one modification, to make your comment 100% honest. You need to delete the phrase "pre-emptive wars" and replace it with the phrase "wars of aggression." This war is not really pre-emptive, because there was nothing to pre-empt. By now, everyone in the world (except a small percentage, comprising the most ignorant people in the world) understands that the "imminent act of aggression" by Iraq against the United States, which the Bush administration said the war would pre-empt, was just a fiction which was cynically invented by the Bush administration itself.
By the way, do you ever watch American movies? Does it bother you that your side always loses? The rancher who murders the people on a neighboring ranch, because he wants their water, always loses. The Fuehrer who starts a war, because he wants his Vaterland to have more Lebensraum, always loses. Guys like you always get shot at by John Wayne. It must be very uncomfortable for you, to live in America but to have values which are 180 degrees opposite from the values of normal American culture.
You wrote: "I can do without civil liberties. But if I can't drive to work..." Haven't you noticed that this country was founded by people like Benjamin Franklin, whose beliefs were 180 degrees opposite from yours? Wouldn't you be happier somewhere else? How about Saudi Arabia, or Dubai?
Mr. Franklin was right: any safety that you can purchase by giving up civil liberties will only be temporary. In the long run, you will have neither liberty nor safety.
Posted by: REM | July 17, 2007 6:42 AM
This show was your best ever, Bill. Great guests, with above-average cup sizes.
The opinion poll you cite is bogus; polls, like statistics, lie. For an explanation about the polls and why they are erroneous, go to www.LewRockwell.com, and search that site. A couple of the recent articles are very insightful.
Posted by: Libber Key | July 17, 2007 6:19 AM
Bill Moyer,
My Husband and I will not miss your journals, we thank you so much for the courage to bring such eye opening story to the people,we look forward to the congress taking on the job they where elected to do, and stop the war, they promised.. but every one is only interested in playing both sides of the fence so not to disturb the position they have Speaker Polosi gave us her word that she would get our boys home, 6 months later we are no further ahead!!!! Please keep up the great work, and we thank you Mr. Moyer
Posted by: Elva | July 17, 2007 12:33 AM
If you want the democratic Presidential candidates asked about their stance on impeachment in the next debate, view & vote for it at this link:
(Third or Fourth to the right in the top row)...
http://www.communitycounts.us/cgi/demdebateVIEW.cgi?search=impeach
Posted by: Debbie | July 16, 2007 11:42 PM
Murdoch has made his bid. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118463978304868582.html?mod=home_whats_news_us
Now he's going to do with the Journal just what he did with all his other media. Dumb it down into a hacky Republican rag.
Say goodbye to articles like these:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118454813037367221-search.html?KEYWORDS=republican+scandal&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month
A federal grand jury had just handed up an indictment against Treasurer Thomas Ravenel, scion of one of the state's leading political families, for allegedly distributing cocaine. Mr. Ravenel, who had recently defeated a Democratic incumbent who held the office for 36 years, was the statewide chairman for former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign, in what has historically been a decisive early primary state.
The indictment is just one of the political headaches across the South that are making Republicans look more vulnerable than they have in years to losing ground in the region's legislatures and statehouses. Though there isn't any sign of them losing their dominance in the region, the once-formidable "Solid South" coalitions they forged in the 1980s and 1990s to end a century of Democratic dominion have given way to messy schisms and infighting. Today, they look a lot like the bitterly divided Democrats of three decades ago.>
Posted by: jd | July 16, 2007 11:33 PM
Reply to No Fear's reasoned
response to my question What
is the Democrat/Move On plan to defend America against the military attack
of the Jihadists? We tried the criminal justice
approach to Jihadism from
1992-2000 under the Clinton
administration. It led to emboldening the Jihadists
to the point of September
11. One of the realities of war is that the enemy must be engaged on the battlefield he is on, not the one we prefer. The Jihadists have chosen brutal
military style operations
not bank robberies. He scoffs when we engage him at
an intensity level unequal to his. As for the military
breaking, I know these soldiers and the truth is that we now have the most
experienced, effective,
razor-sharp, fighting force
for asymetrical urban combat in the world today.
That is what the Jihadists
fear and respect.
Posted by: uga6 | July 16, 2007 10:36 PM
If only people would think about our system rather than whichever political party is up or down at the moment. The remarkable interview with Fein and Nichols focused our minds on that. It's time for people to gather in public and talk about the impeachment of Bush and Cheney to save the form of government designed so brilliantly in 1787 by the Founding Fathers. Please come to an unsponsored, unscripted, non-partisan vigil set for Saturday, July 21 at 1 p.m. in Lafayette Park, across from the north lawn of the White House. For more information, visit http://seeyouinthepark.blogspot.com . This isn't about partisan advantage, but preservation of the freedoms that we assumed were inviolate when we were growing up. Turns out we can never stop fighting for them.
Posted by: We the People | July 16, 2007 10:11 PM
Adam, the "meaning of your argument would provoke a much better reception if you simply learned to spell and speak. Lack of education does indicate a person's intelligence. . . lack of knowledge of history is scandalous, so I suggest you start reading.
Posted by: Sarah E. Grove | July 16, 2007 9:59 PM
The minute Bush wanted to go to Iraq to seek Weapons of Mass Destruction, I knew another Vietnam was coming. (I think a lot of other people knew it in their hearts also, but didn't have the courage to speak up.)
Posted by: Rusty Rose | July 16, 2007 8:07 PM
What "war debate"? I watched two "Bush-haters" and a flaming-liberial host. There was absolutely NO debate. A true jurnalist would have hosted a well represented debate with "experts" from both sides of the issue. The problem from the left is they fail to realize this is a full-out war unlike any ever faught in American history. I pledge never to give PBS a dime if they continue to push such a liberial anti-war forum. I'll gladly forfiet some privacy during a time of war. Moyers' point-of-view will cost him his head if he lets Al-Q have there way.
Posted by: Adam | July 16, 2007 7:22 PM
I called WNET to order a DVD copy of Bill Moyer's outstanding program on impeachment. I was told that DVDs would not be available until August 24 (and mailing takes up to 5 days after that.) I was heartsick because I had planned to show it to my neighbors, and loan it to my friends and co-workers.
We can't wait until September to begin educating other Americans about impeachment.
Mr. Moyers, is there some way to speed up production of this DVD?
Also, what about displaying some pithy quotes from the show on tee shirts (to catch those who would never watch PBS.) We've got to make as many people as possble understand what's happening to our democracy. I personally would appreciate some talking points to use once someone read my shirt. These talking points would keep me on track and stop me from smacking any moron who started arguing with me.
God bless Bill Moyers, and God bless America.
Marilyn Nelson
Posted by: Marilyn Nelson | July 16, 2007 6:08 PM
The core rationale for the pre-emptive invasion of a sovereign nation put forth by the Bush administration, above all objections and questions both domestically and internationally, was WMD.
Bush's very first public comment about the question of WMD in Iraq after the invasion was: "Well...the Iraq people are better off today without Saddam."
Without a public acknowledgment of the mistake, and an international apology, Congress could, and should have impeached him within months of those comments. We all know what happened instead.
There's been little public discourse over this bait-and-switch strategy. Proportional to its importance, there's also been very little coverage or discussion of the hearings into pre-war intelligence.
Currently it appears the public and Congress seem to lack a fundamental insight:
The end of this administration will inevitably set a precedent of great historical proportions, either because of an impeachment, or because there was no impeachment; either way it will cast a long shadow onto the future. If they lose only one day in office, the precedent is still the same as if they left tomorrow morning.
A quick, collective recognition of this inevitability would allow the discussion to move on to which precedent we want to see.
The many examples of impeachable behavior make it clear that if Congress doesn't prosecute an impeachment of this President and Vice President, its hard to imagine any future administration ever being impeached. The whole notion of impeachment as a viable remedy for presidential misconduct will have lost much of its meaning.
On the other hand, impeachment of this President and Vice-President would profoundly reaffirm and reinforce the Constitution's structure of checks and balances, and put all future administrations on notice that there are some limits on how much unilateral power can be assumed by the executive branch. It would also jump-start the recovery of our international standing.
The recent episode of BMJ was the closest thing I've seen to a public discussion of these issues. I fault the guests for only one position: their notion that the administration can stay on if they mend their ways. This creates a precedent that says "its ok to do these things, as long as you stop when we tell you to". Nothing short of a completed impeachment process should be accepted. Clinton walked the whole road for a private tryst, surely the current administration's behavior deserves at least the same walk.
Posted by: Parker | July 16, 2007 5:21 PM
Thank you Bill Moyers for addressing this issue and allowing Mr. Fein to give his expertise. Anyone that still supports this administration and this war, is either extremely ignorant, naiive, or insane. Everyone should be made to sacrifice for this country, especially the wealthy. If things dont change soon, this american will be moving to Europe.
Posted by: Carla Riggs | July 16, 2007 5:03 PM
[i]...if we leave Iraq to the Jihadists, what is the DEMOCRAT, MOVE ON, plan to defend America and defeat the military efforts of the Jihadists who have vowed to destroy western civilization?[/i]
First, if we leave our military in Iraq, it will break in 2008 and won't be able to defend America, so any rational discussion has to accept that fact. I haven't heard any NEOCON, BUSH LOYALIST present a plan to reapair our military, so that they can defend us. All I hear is how they will defend Iraqis who won't compromise and make political concessions to reach a viable independence. But, as for the DEMOCRAT, MOVEON plan, it would look a bit like Great Britian, where intelligence and good police work protect the country (Saudi Arabia has had similar success) ... where recommendations by the 9/11 Commission and Iraq Study Group would be adopted ... where FISA courts provide oversight, torture is repudiated and habeas corpus is restored ... and our military is restored to full strength, special forces are expanded and these braves patriots and their families are respected. There is a flawed logic that if we occupy Iraq, we are safer, despite diminished military capacity and the fact that Jihadists can attack anywhere, at anytime. Nothing about our presence in Iraq means Jihadists are confined to Iraq. That is a fallacy exposed by Glasgow, Bali, Madrid, Darfur, Pakistan, Lebanon, etc.
As for future generations thanking Bush and Cheney for securing oil that will be vital to our economy, what ignorance! Bush and Cheney have crippled efforts for energy independence, and thwarted alternative energy efforts.
Posted by: no fear | July 16, 2007 4:36 PM
Do you believe & have faith in Pres. Bush & VP Cheney? Invest a son and/or daughter in their policies. Tell the mother of an Iraq WIA or KIA how lucky she is to have a son or daughter who gave their lives & bodies. Are we really fighting terrorists, or Islamic exremists and nationalists? I wouldn't take the Pres. or the VP's word on it.....Afterall, WMD's were the excuse used to get us there in the first place. Impeach Bush and/or Cheney? I think the nation has grounds to do so....
Posted by: John H. | July 16, 2007 4:18 PM
Thank you Bill Moyers and staff.
I have enjoyed most of the comments on this blog. I’ll add to it again by sharing with everybody what was on Democracy Now today and what I found out about Iran. Call your congressman, demand they don’t go on a break until Bush/Cheney are impeached. September may be too late.
Is the stage being set for a US attack on Iran? The Guardian newspaper of London is reporting that the balance in the internal White House debate over Iran has reportedly shifted in favor of military action before President Bush leaves office in 18 months.
The Guardian quotes what it calls a "well-placed source in Washington" as saying: "Bush is not going to leave office with Iran still in Limbo." The source also said Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney did not trust any potential successors in the White House, Republican or Democrat, to deal with Iran decisively. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/16/1330225
If the right wingers can stand by the logic of pre-emptive attacks, (didn’t the Geneva conventions state this was the heinous of all acts) – then let us use that logic to stop them from attacking Iran. Pre-empt Bush/Cheney Impeach them now before they implement plans already in place.
For a state as antagonistic as Iran even to know how to make nuclear weapons was unacceptable. Long before the Iraq invasion, Israeli officials had told the Bush administration that Iran was a far greater threat than Iraq. "If you look at President Bush's 'axis of evil' list, all of us said North Korea and Iran are more urgent," says former Mossad director of intelligence Uzi Arad, who served as Netanyahu's foreign-policy adviser. "Iraq was already semi-controlled because there were sanctions. It was outlawed. Sometimes the answer [from the neocons] was 'Let's do first things first. Once we do Iraq, we'll have a military presence in Iraq, which would enable us to handle the Iranians from closer quarters, would give us more leverage.'"
In April, Seymour Hersh reported in The New Yorker that U.S. troops were already on the ground in Iran, negotiating alliances with the Azerbaijanis in the North, the Kurds in the Northeast, and the Baluchis in the Southeast. In September, Time reported that a U.S. campaign to wipe out Iran's nuclear program could entail bombing up to 1,500 targets. More recently, Paul Craig Roberts, a former assistant secretary of the Treasury under Ronald Reagan, asserted in the Baltimore Chronicle that Bush "will attack Iran with tactical nuclear weapons, because it is the only way the neocons believe they can rescue their goal of U.S. (and Israeli) hegemony in the Middle East." Adds former C.I.A. officer Philip Giraldi, "I've heard from sources at the Pentagon that their impression is that the White House has made a decision that war is going to happen." (Craig Unger, Vanity Fair March 2007)
“President Bush dismissed news reports that his administration has been working on contingency plans for war -- particularly talk of the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons against Tehran -- as "wild speculation.” In early 2003, even as U.S. forces were on the brink of war with Iraq, the Army had already begun conducting an analysis for a full-scale war with Iran. The analysis, called TIRANNT, for "theater Iran near term," was coupled with a mock scenario for a Marine Corps invasion and a simulation of the Iranian missile force.
Under TIRANNT, Army and U.S. Central Command planners have been examining both near-term and out-year scenarios for war with Iran, including all aspects of a major combat operation, from mobilization and deployment of forces through postwar stability operations after regime change. This contingency plan entitled CONPLAN 8022 would be activated in the eventuality of a Second 9/11, on the presumption that Iran would be behind it.
Various scenarios involving Iran's missile force have also been examined in another study, initiated in 2004 and known as BMD-I (ballistic missile defense -- Iran). In this study, the Center for Army Analysis modeled the performance of U.S. and Iranian weapons systems to determine the number of Iranian missiles expected to leak through a coalition defense.
The day-to-day planning for dealing with Iran's missile force falls to the U.S. Strategic Command in Omaha. In June 2004, Rumsfeld alerted the command to be prepared to implement CONPLAN 8022, a global strike plan that includes Iran. CONPLAN 8022 calls for bombers and missiles to be able to act within 12 hours of a presidential order. The new task force, sources have told me, mostly worries that if it were called upon to deliver "prompt" global strikes against certain targets in Iran under some emergency circumstances, the president might have to be told that the only option is a nuclear one.” (William Arkin Washington Post 4-16-2006)
The use of tactical nuclear weapons is contemplated under CONPLAN 8022 alongside conventional weapons, as part of the Bush administration's preemptive war doctrine. In May 2004, National Security Presidential Directive NSPD 35 entitled Nuclear Weapons Deployment Authorization was issued. While its contents remains classified, the presumption is that NSPD 35 pertains to the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons in the Middle East war theater in compliance with CONPLAN 8022.
War preparations in Israel have been ongoing since late 2004. The Israeli Air Force would attack Iran's nuclear facility at Bushehr using US as well Israeli produced bunker buster bombs. The attacks are slated to be carried out in three separate waves "with the radar and communications jamming protection being provided by U.S. Air Force AWACS and other U.S. aircraft in the area".
The bunker buster bombs can also be used to deliver tactical nuclear bombs. The B61-11 is the "nuclear version" of the "conventional" BLU 113. It can be delivered in much same way as the conventional bunker buster bomb. ( Michel Chossudovsky, globalresearch 02/21/2007 ) .
The following is taken from the administrations’ March 2006 National Security Strategy: “ The path we have chosen is consistent with the great tradition of American foreign policy. Like the policies of Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan, our approach is idealistic about our national goals, and realistic about the means to achieve them.
We may face no greater challenge from a single country than from Iran. For almost 20 years, the Iranian regime hid many of its key nuclear efforts from the international community. Yet the regime continues to claim that it does not seek to develop nuclear weapons. The Iranian regime’s true intentions are clearly revealed by the regime’s refusal to negotiate in good faith; its refusal to come into compliance with its international obligations by providing the IAEA access to nuclear sites and resolving troubling questions; and the aggressive statements of its President calling for Israel to “be wiped off the face of the earth.” The United States has joined with our EU partners and Russia to pressure Iran to meet its international obligations and provide objective guarantees that its nuclear program is only for peaceful purposes. This diplomatic effort must succeed if confrontation is to be avoided.
As important as are these nuclear issues, the United States has broader concerns regarding Iran. The Iranian regime sponsors terrorism; threatens Israel; seeks to thwart Middle East peace; disrupts democracy in Iraq; and denies the aspirations of its people for freedom. The nuclear issue and our other concerns can ultimately be resolved only if the Iranian regime makes the strategic decision to change these policies, open up its political system, and afford freedom to its people. This is the ultimate goal of U.S. policy. In the interim, we will continue to take all necessary measures to protect our national and economic security against the adverse effects of their bad conduct. The problems lie with the illicit behavior and dangerous ambition of the Iranian regime, not the legitimate aspirations and interests of the Iranian people. Our strategy is to block the threats posed by the regime while expanding our engagement and outreach to the people the regime is oppressing. (NSS March 2006)
Rome is burning, the writing is on the wall. Just ask yourself would this administration let Iran stand pat after the U.S. has taken away it biggest adversary? Why would generals threaten to quit if this wasn’t a major possibility?
“ Some of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.
Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.
“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. (Smith & Baxter The Sunday Times 02/27/2007)
If you got this far thank you. Believe me I am no supporter of Iran. They are not our enemy. You only need to look in the mirror. Peak oil is here and gone (my only proof is the Exxon made a commercial about it, if they feel the need to mention it, it must have happened a couple of years ago). Connect the dots. America must control the Middle East if we have any hope to sustain our standard of living. There must be a better way than nuking Iran. It is unthinkable to me, but it is not to Dick Cheney.
P.S. Neil are you going to thank him when the Nukes rain down?
Posted by: Kent | July 16, 2007 4:02 PM
Neil,
I'm really sorry that you would prefer to live under a dictatorship, but are you sure your children will feel the same way? It is to your credit that at least someone from the right has finally came forward and admitted that the current Iraq war is about oil and not WMDs, or Al Qaeda. Now, please explain that to the fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, wives, and children of the 3602 (last count I heard) military personnel who have died (and thousands more maimed for life) so you can enjoy your current life style. Pathetic!
Posted by: Jerry Keene | July 16, 2007 3:38 PM
As President Bush's father said in 2002, "the American way of life is not negotiable". Can you imagine how life would be for us if we did not have access to oil from the Middle East? Bush and Cheney, as oil men, understand this. They will thanklessly do whatever it takes to keep the oil flowing for us, including waging pre-emptive wars and leaving in place vast armies to preserve American access to oil fields in other countries. I'm voting for whichever candidate insures that we have access to fossil fuels. I can do without civil liberties. But if I can't drive to work then I can't feed my family. The youth of America will thank President Bush for annexing an oil-rich country when peak oil hits the world soon and there's not enough oil to meet world demand.
Posted by: Neil Johnson | July 16, 2007 2:54 PM
Posted by: mike shriver | July 16, 2007 05:31 AM
Mr Shriver, you said, in part:
....this part of the show was, for me, sadly a return to the kind of pseudo-journalism that we have become accustomed to in this country. advancing the meme that congress remains spineless is both a brilliant way to allow the previous two congresses, both controlled by the republican party, to be absolved of all guilt as well as to advance a very insidious and effective meme for the 2008 elections. after all, if all the blame is because no one in congress now (read - a congress now controlled by the democrats) is willing t be a real patriot and take back our constitution, then we know what to do. we have two parties to chose from. the current (democrats) party is useless. the show never made any indication that the previous party was useless.
voila -- we already have the television and radio spots for the republican campaigns for the control of the house and senate in the next election cycle....."
"....not only folly, but a blatant set up. by advancing, unchallenged, the notion that we are sinking because the current congress is spineless is to be an active player in writing thee campaign scripts for the next election cycle. for the republicans....
If you had simply made this point, your observations would have been effective. To expect one (forty minute?) program to cover all you have covered in your summary of the program's shortcomings you have buried this blazing "meme" now being perpetuated on the American Public.
Brevity and Repetition of a single point are the tools which have catapulted this administration into power. When we learn to use their techniques based on truth not fabrications, we'll lead once again.
The true battle we're fighting today is whether the truth is imperative, and therefore worth demanding, in political discourse. Why must we allow politicians immunity in their misuse of factual statements?
We, the Democrats and Independents, must learn to point out falsehoods and misinformation and then pound out the truth refuting their fabrications.
i.e.
THE FAILURE TO EXPOSE THE DUPLICITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION IS ROOTED IN THE PREVIOUS, REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED, CONGRESS, AND MUST NOW BE ADDRESSED WITH A BI-PARTISIAN EFFORT. IF THE REPUBLICANS REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR ROLE IN THE CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL EMERGENCY, REMOVE THEM FROM OFFICE.
Posted by: Goldie | July 16, 2007 2:37 PM
Perhaps I missed my post in sea of liberal hysteria that
passes for thought on this blog, but it appears that it was deleted by the editor. My MAIN question is
still this: OK, Bush is bad, people are dieing in Iraq, etc., if we leave Iraq
to the Jihadists, what is the DEMOCRAT, MOVE ON, plan
to defend America and defeat
the military efforts of the
Jihadists who have vowed to
destroy western civilization? This is a
rational question liberals
are not answering!
Posted by: uga6 | July 16, 2007 1:47 PM
President Dwight Eisenhower
in his final address to the nation in 1961 warned that America must"guard against the acquisition of unwarrented influence...by the military-industrial complex." This was presented in a DVD documentry titled;Why We Fight, and it appears clear to me that Dwight Eisenhower could see from his perspective in 1961 hugh problems for the world that would be coming out of our military-industrial complex.The Bush/Cheney Administration and Congress continue to support this complex and show no mercy for the millions of lives that are broken and destroyed by the Iraq war. Bush/Cheney are having it their way, and for all of us who disagree and oppose the killing, it doesn't matter, the killing and the war will continue until who knows when ?? I am ashamed as an American citizen and in addition to having my taxes help pay for killing men, women and children....we see over 45 million Americans without health care. This is so shameful. France, Britain, Canada and Cuba provide excellent health care for all their people while in the USA it's only for those who can "pull themselves up by their own boot straps...." America isn't the leader of the world as it was fifty years ago, and Bush/Cheney and Congress have done so much harm to our country in the past six years, I have very little hope that America will ever regain respect from people of other nations. I praise Bill Moyer and PBS for showing the other side.
Posted by: Thomas N. Tibbatts | July 16, 2007 1:43 PM
This whas the most one-sided liberial attack against the current administration I have ever seen. Why would you put two "Bush-haters" on TV with no opposing view point. Bill Moyers looks like all the other wacko liberals. PBS is part of the left-wing media pupets.
Posted by: Adam | July 16, 2007 12:17 PM
"What should we do?"
Thomas Jefferson said: "Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and soul will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day."
Thanks Mr. Moyers for doing your part, and now I have done mine.
Posted by: Michael J Ahles | July 16, 2007 11:48 AM
After reading a few more blogs, what I find so disconcerting is that a remainder of bloggers find Bill Moyers to be slanted. If true, then the show should have been titled "away with Bush and Cheney". But, it was titled "the war debate." The intention of the show is to analyze the context and process leading to the war. In other words, the war debate attempts to calculate and verify whether or not there is validity in the results/aftermath of this war. Thus, if Bush and Cheney were just variables in the equation (or replace them with another pair of leaders), all the components together wouldn't add up to the rules of law set up by the Constitution. The show is not designed as a personal attack against Bush and Cheney. Rather, it provides context to the irrational, illogical, and damaging situation in which our country exist as a result of the means and/or methods lending to our current situation. To be slanted means that there has been personal offense committed with Bush and Cheney. If a personal offense has occurred against you, that is for you to address with them. I don't know them; they are not my buddies. I operate under the framework that they are elected officials, expected to be responsible leaders. They are to use their faculties and their best judgment to protect my country, my rights and my life. People are expressing their sentiments as to their actions as President and Vice President of the United States and not for who they are. Please be mindful of separating the role and the person.
Posted by: RachelP_NewYork | July 16, 2007 11:22 AM
Kudos on a tremendous show. This should be required viewing for ALL members of Congress.
For those who ask "but what LAW was broken?" you obviously didn't watch the show carefully. The President can be impeached for treason, high crimes and MISDEMEANORS. Misdemeanors as in misbehaving, not necessarily violations of the written law. The President and Vice President have exceeded the bounds of their Constitutional authority, repeatedly and continuously. They must be impeached (and hopefully convicted) to protect the system of government that has worked for us for over 200 years. If you simply MUST have an example of an actual law that has been violated, the most obvious is that mentioned several times by Bruce Fein on this show: FISA, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. The President authorized intelligence collection on American citizens and did not secure a warrant from the FISA court within 72 hours, which the law requires. He did this numerous times, each time a violation of the law. That alone justifies impeachment, as surely as lying to investigators and obstructing justice.
Remember the difference between IMPEACHMENT and CONVICTION. All impeachment does is start an official investigation and lead to a Senate trial. The President would not be removed from office unless CONVICTED by the Senate.
Posted by: Rob Woodard | July 16, 2007 11:17 AM
After reading a few more blogs, what I find so disconcerting is that a remainder of bloggers find Bill Moyers to be slanted. If true, then the show should have been titled "away with Bush and Cheney". But, it was titled "the war debate." The intention of the show is to analyze the context and process leading to the war. In other words, the war debate attempts to calculate and verify whether or not there is validity in the results/aftermath of this war. Thus, if Bush and Cheney were just variables in the equation (or replace them with another pair of leaders), all the components together wouldn't add up to the rules of law set up by the Constitution. The show is not designed as a personal attack against Bush and Cheney. Rather, it provides context to the irrational, illogical, and damaging situation in which our country exist as a result of the means and/or methods lending to our current situation. To be slanted means that there has been personal offense committed with Bush and Cheney. If a personal offense has occurred against you, that is for you to address with them. I don't know them; they are not my buddies. I operate under the framework that they are elected officials, expected to be responsible leaders. They are to use their faculties and their best judgment to protect my country, my rights and my life. People are expressing their sentiments as to their actions as President and Vice President of the United States and not for who they are. Please be mindful of separating the role and the person.
Posted by: RachelP_NewYork | July 16, 2007 10:40 AM
Impeachment will not happen as a partisan event. Even if Pelosi and the Democrats pursue impeachment, how likely is it the Republicans will join suit? And the Supreme Court? cheney-bush have so much stacked in their favor, what is Plan B to save our country and our Constitution? Is impeachment really possible given these grim circumstances, and if not, what is the alternative to it, and how do we start working on that?
Posted by: Diane | July 16, 2007 9:08 AM
Thank you Bill Moyers and team. This show made me go and write a letter to my Congressman to support impeachment. I also want to learn more about how the balance of power in goverment is being taught in school and universities. The guests suggested that the current Congress isn't educated enough in Constitutional law to know their responsibilities. I actually hope that statement is true. It's hard for me to believe any representative would blatantly shirk a responsibility because of the comfort of power. I still have faith in government and people standing up for what's right. Please continue to produce shows that ask deep questions. Thank you.
Posted by: Michele Van Allen | July 16, 2007 7:58 AM
while i found the show on impeachment to be, as always with bill moyers, of the highest quality, i came away from it far less impressed by its objectivity and more unsettled by its omissions and poorly evidenced assumptions. the analysis of the crisis we are now situated in, by both moyers and the 2 panelists was remarkably slanted. i would even suggest partisan. secondly, the blame game bandied about in the discussion was predicated upon completely ignoring the previous two congresses and their efforts (and failures therein) to do anything to curb the rise to such power as enjoyed now by the president. when the panelists state, and moyers leaves unchallenged, that the reason we have not impeached is because nancy pelosi and the house leadership are spineless, the meme is not just introduced but given credibility. the show broke ground in beginning to lay out factual and procedural justification for the impeachment process to move forward. that is an awesome undertaking. the show failed however, to do this giant step in a fair, balanced and historical context. that reality must be fixed.
for example, there were some decidedly absent components to the discussion of impeachment in the show, not the least of which was the fact that one "experts" was part of the process which deliberately sought to make mockery of the exact same impeachment procedures that he now waxes on so eloquently about.
the suggestion of analogy between the politically and frankly personally-motivated impeachment proceedings against clinton and the present situation fail under scrutiny. i would point out that the timeline moyers suggested regarding the clinton proceedings forgot the fact that ken starr (et al) had already been amassing information against the president well before the house moved the impeachment process forward. starr was the beneficiary of a well-funded republican congressionally-sponsored investigation of clinton. any parallel investigation that looks remotely like the ones against clinton? hardly.
fein's glossing over his own culpability in the clinton impeachment process makes his passion and fervor suspect, regardless of the political affiliation of the sitting president.
another very distressing part of the discussion was the absolute exoneration of the previous congress of any blame for the current mess we find ourselves in. not once in the discussion did the panel (or moyers for that matter) step back and remind themselves and the viewers that one of the biggest reasons we are in the midst of this mess is that the past congresses, when republican-party dominated and controlled did absolutely nothing to stem the usurpation of power by the president. nothing.
in other words, after watching the show, if i knew no better, i would assume that the past few congresses were actually more combative with the president, more willing to challenge him, more of what we NEED as opposed to what we HAVE. that kind of disinformation i have come to expect from the so-called mainstream media; i expect a more robust and accurate delineation of accountability from someone of the caliber of moyers.
the media almost is highlighted for their active complicity in covering up and under-reporting the truth of the activities of this administration, but true to form, when push comes to shove, the media and all attendant punditry are let off far too easily, and the focus becomes one of targeting solely the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi.
this part of the show was, for me, sadly a return to the kind of pseudo-journalism that we have become accustomed to in this country. advancing the meme that congress remains spineless is both a brilliant way to allow the previous two congresses, both controlled by the republican party, to be absolved of all guilt as well as to advance a very insidious and effective meme for the 2008 elections. after all, if all the blame is because no one in congress now (read - a congress now controlled by the democrats) is willing t be a real patriot and take back our constitution, then we know what to do. we have two parties to chose from. the current (democrats) party is useless. the show never made any indication that the previous party was useless.
voila -- we already have the television and radio spots for the republican campaigns for the control of the house and senate in the next election cycle.
for shame.
i expect that bill moyers would take to this type of partisanship and stop it with facts -- instead we were deluged with how no one has done anything at all to change this course of destruction and ruin meme. forget the fact that the facts speak otherwise. forget the fact that waxman, sanchez, etc. are in fact holding hearings, are subpoenaing and are having people testify (as well as refuse to testify) etc. forget the fact that these hearings could have and should have been done two, three, four years ago - and were not. forget the fact that in the house waxman, sanchez, etc. are doing two jobs simultaneously -- that of their charge in committee leadership as well as the job that was NOT done by their republican predecessors.
why this was not made clear in the show is beyond the pale. and really poor journalism. why be objective when one can conveniently be incendiary and provocative?
in the past seven months the expectation therefore is that the democrats have to not only return the chambers back to fully functioning bodies where the committee structure operates properly and the legislative cycle is back in sync with the congressional calendar BUT TO ALSO have more than adequate research already done so that the impeachment process can be advanced.
utter folly.
not only folly, but a blatant set up. by advancing, unchallenged, the notion that we are sinking because the current congress is spineless is to be an active player in writing thee campaign scripts for the next election cycle. for the republicans.
i expect more. i expect more honesty and i expect more thoughtful analysis from moyers. and while the overall impression i left the show with was more positive than negative, these glaring omissions and revisions and inaccuracies really do hurt the credibility of the show in advancing its conclusions.
scooter libby's pardon just may have been the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of discussing the real threat we live under with a administration that so blatantly ignores the law. however, moyers and the panelists use libby as an example and selectively omit more pressing and salient rulings and examples of the bush administration's casual disregard for process. had they even looked at but one recent court ruling the discussion could probably have become more relevant and less rhetorical in its conclusion.
to wit, the fact that a few fridays ago the 6th circuit court ruled against the aclu who brought the case against the administration for the warrantless wiretapping program. the white house/NSA would not release the information to the aclu about the program (claiming privilege) and as a result, the aclu lost the case.
this white house is advancing a constitutional crisis, no doubt. the panelists are correct in that analysis. but to suggest that impeachment is the remedy belies a serious misunderstanding of the impeachment process as well as a miscalculation as to the what the real crisis is that that is looming.
the president has stated and is acting upon an assumption of executive privilege that even nixon could not maintain (following the court's ruling against him in 1973).
the one case of specific relevance to the impeachment call -- that of the aclu and warrentless wiretapping -- was won by the administration SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT WITHHELD PERTINENT INFORMATION FROM THE ACLU.
every opportunity to date, the administration has reaffirmed its position -- we will not cooperate, we will not participate. period. under no circumstance. the white house has made it clear that it will not honor or respect the requests of congress (even subpoenas) regarding the requests for witnesses, testimony, information, data, etc.
this is the starting point with the administration.
congress requests, the white house refuses. congress asks, the white house obfuscates, lies, finds files "missing" or "inadvertently destroyed" or sends back explanations that are clearly more a statement of contempt than legally-binding explanations.
to suggest that impeachment proceedings will curtail this arrogance is to believe in magic beans.
why? where is there any incentive in the impeachment process, per se, that would compel the administration to change its position on executive privilege? there is none except and when the white house's claim for executive privilege is challenged in a court of law. absent this "privilege" being challenged, what guarantee if any is there that critical evidence that is solely in the possession of the administration will ever be made available?
the aclu case would indicate an answer that i find terrifying. and this is, i would suggest, the real crisis, whether or not this supreme court would rule to give the standing president more power than any president has ever had before, namely the power to never have to obey the law. ever. and do so and establish legal precedent. THAT is the crisis looming in the wings, i would suggest.
the showdown is readily apparent -- as with nixon, a supreme court decision regarding executive privilege is obviously going to either make or break both the bush presidency and the impeachment process. the looming constitutional crisis for which an impeachment process will not be remedy but instead catalyst for would be the ruling by the supreme court in favor of its administration.
the supreme court, which has recently ruled for all intents and purposes to overturn brown v board of education, is the same court we would look to for remedy to stop this administration form its intentional disregard for the law?
therein lies the threat that ought to be discussed, and incorporated into the dialog about how to hold this administration appropriately accountable for its dereliction of duty while at the same time not providing it with, intentionally or not, more power. the kind of power that could render a democracy useless.
Posted by: mike shriver | July 16, 2007 5:31 AM
It was recently brought to my attention that on April 24, 2007, there was placed before the House of Representatives a bill, H.RES.333, sponsored by Rep. Dennis Kucinich and currently cosponsored by 13 other brave opponents of American facism, entitled: Impeaching Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors. Please write your representatives and ask them to become cosponsors of H.Res. 333. I'm not sure why this bill was not known about or mentioned on the Journal program. It seems to me someone should have known about it. For the record, I do respect Speaker Nancy Pelosi, but I think she's wrong about impeachment.
I found Bruce Fein's arguments in favor of impeachment compelling. I also think if just the vice president is removed from office, the president will follow -- because that's really what Bush has been doing all along, following Cheney. But I wouldn't mind if they were in the docket together. It could be our version of Nuremburg, where we punish our war criminals.
I also found it interesting that Mr. Fein was assistant attorney general during Reagan's presidency, when Edwin Meese was attorney general. I never had much respect for Meese, nevertheless I wonder what he feels about the growing movement to oust the current leaders and Mr. Fein's part in it.
Posted by: Michael Schramm | July 16, 2007 4:09 AM
It is refreshing to see at least one media outlet taking up this issue. I am an American ex-pat working over in China at the moment and I do see a sense of irony that a country which has been known and criticized for its single party system (the CCP), corrupt officials and extreme forms of monitoring, surveillance and censorship of its citizens has been striving for more democracy and freedoms to slowly become more like us, even as we, a country that has long been the example of democratic ideals seem to be becoming more like them. Well there is one key difference. That is when Chinese officials are found guilty of corruption, they are often executed. Here we just commute the sentence…..unless you’re not lucky enough to be a Bush politician….and you’re cited under the patriot act…..in which case you might tortured and….well you see my point.
It is a sad state of affairs when the leadership in America is becoming the poster-child for the old statement that ‘absolute power corrupts absolutely’. This slow abuse of liberties and powers that has crept in to our system of government over the last 2 presidential terms becomes more frightening by the day. Politicians seem only focused on the short term, not on the generations who will come after them. It is the ultimate legacy of politicians learning from the ‘me’ generation.
We have seen a Vice President and a President who both take actions ‘above the law’. Excusing friends, exposing political enemies (even when said enemies are tied to the CIA) and avoiding the legal system at nearly every turn when it suits their purpose. Examples include, refusing to make statements under oath into 9/11 commission investigations, and telling the police to ‘come back later’ after a shooting accident to name a few.
If you take a look at the fall of ‘great’ empires throughout history, they generally follow similar patterns. It begins with corruption at the highest levels which later leads to widening gaps in status/wealth. Then come sequentially stricter enforcements over time to maintain the ‘status quo’ for those in power, until ultimately so much corruption has eaten away at the system that the enforcements cannot be maintained to contain the opposition. It happened in Rome, Russia, Britain, and to nearly every Dynasty in China. If we don’t take action soon, it will ultimately become our legacy as well.
Posted by: PM Fox | July 16, 2007 3:16 AM
That was the most significant & intelligent discussion I have ever seen on TV, bar none. It made me proud to be an American and I’m Canadian ;)
King George vs. USA
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3842528486406273821
Posted by: J.F.William | July 16, 2007 12:05 AM
Yes, I agree that Bush and Cheney committed impeachable, criminal acts. The shame is that Congress, the Press, and the public acquiesced and even blessed the war and the subversion of the Constitution for so long. Surely, we must share some collective responsibility for what's been done to Iraq, the men and women in the armed forces, and world peace.
As much as I would like to end our involvement in the war, I believe it would be morally wrong to leave Iraq now. We cannot leave a country where men and women are dragged out of their cars and shot dead in front of their families, where people are tortured to death in unspeakable ways, and where no place is safe from the madness and hatred of suicide bombers.
The actions of our country (however misguided and mislead) unleashed the evil and anarchy that has swept up so many innocent people. As painful and horrible as it is to continue this war without end, can we, in good conscience, leave the Iraq and the region exposed to the chaos we created?
I know the prospect of staying in Iraq another year or more is grim, and everyone is sick of this war. But, if it means making Iraq a safer and more democratic place, I believe we owe it to the Iraqi people, who have suffered even more dearly than we have.
Posted by: Steve Berry | July 15, 2007 11:51 PM
Every Friday, I set aside time to make sure that I watch Bill Moyers Journal. This was yet another powerful, honest, excellent, informative episode! Thank you Mr Moyers! There is only one other out there in the "media" that seems to have the courage to come out and say what is also on MANY AMERICANS MINDS, and that would be Keith Olbermann of MSNBC. On the Eve of July 4th, 2007, Olberman states "Bush and Cheney Should Resign" : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2gm8c_olbermann-bush-cheney-should-resign
And I happen to agree with him. And if they DON'T RESIGN, then "impeachment is the cure not the disease" as Mr Nichols nicely put it.
Posted by: Cindy | July 15, 2007 11:16 PM
"Airliners into buildings".
Aren't we grasping for straws to legitamize Bush's constitutional violations?
He should be impeached. So what if Cheney is president. We can then impeach him. If we can find him.
Jim
Posted by: Jim Pardee | July 15, 2007 10:56 PM
I watched the complete show. The participants were very knowledgeable. One short coming is that the show was completely one sided. For instance:
1. There is no comparing Bill Clinton's impeachment with one with George Bush because time are different. We were at peace in the 1990's and at war now. In addition there is new knowledge. This knowledge is that our enemies have Weapons of Mass Destruction capabilities. (Airliners into buildings).
It is nice to be able to discuss theory with lawyers. It is hard to do that with a gun pointed at our head.
Just so you on the left can deal with my fear, I firmly believe I will see a nuclear bomb take out one of our cities in my lifetime. Just follow the increases in technology and you can see a day coming when it will be very probable to increase a terror strike many times over.
This point was never dealt with on the show. The implication was that our knowledge base is the same today as it was in the 90's with Clinton. It's simply a false premise.
2. In light of the above, it is very normal for our country to struggle with constitutional barriers. It has happened routinely through our history. Our constitution is fine for the day, but boundaries will need to be re written with this new and very dangerous threat.
Although I appreciated the show for the views of the guests, my concerns were not even touched on.
Basically my question is "how do we rewrite the boundaries of the different branches of government given the threat that a nuclear device can now be delivered on our soil by terrorists?"
I see a whole bunch of pre 911 thinking.
Craig
Posted by: Craig Holmes | July 15, 2007 10:47 PM
Thank you for the remarkable interview with Fein and Nichols. It's time for people to gather in public places and talk about the impeachment of Bush and Cheney to save the form of government designed so brilliantly in 1787 by the Founding Fathers. Please come to an unsponsored, non-partisan vigil set for Saturday, July 21 at 1 p.m. in Lafayette Park, across from the north lawn of the White House. For more information, visit http://seeyouinthepark.blogspot.com
Posted by: We the People | July 15, 2007 10:26 PM
Nice work Mr. Moyers. This is the first TV show I am aware of to seriously discuss impeachment of Bush and Cheney. It was refreshing to hear both your guests say what I and my circle of friends have been thinking for some time now. I was very impressed with Bruce Fein who has shed the shackles of partisanship, and pointed out that our first loyalty is to our country and it's constitution, not to a man or party.
I'm glad you called Sara Tayor on her "oath to the president". Too bad she didn't have the patriotism of John Dean.
The other point raised, that even if impeachment proceedings drag on past Jan. 2008 rendering them moot, an example must be sent to future potential "unitary executives" that the United States is a democracy with checks and balances, and will not abide a monarchy.
(Thanks Vane Lashua for the Pelosi letter template. Letter is sent.)
Posted by: Pete Darnell | July 15, 2007 10:14 PM
To me the one effective way of voice our opinions is by the use of a bumper sticker. Impeach stickers are available on the internet. I strongly suggest that those that care deeply about this issue obtain one and display it.
Posted by: Allan Rydberg | July 15, 2007 9:50 PM
well done, mister moyers. you are doing the work for most of the fourth estate. while they take the pablum served them daily by this administration you, once again, inform us and teach us our role as citizens. carry on. you are my hero!
Posted by: dianne | July 15, 2007 9:32 PM
I am not sure that I can add anything to what has already been said. Just add my vote for a huge congratulation and thanks to Bill Moyers and his staff and the PBS network for airing this and his other programs.
As to the people who want to know what Bush and Cheney have done to warrant impeachment procedings they are obviously part of that 3% who think the war is going well. I am sure that nothing would be able to convince them that impeachment is warranted. If they cannot see that lies that commit our men and women to harm's way are impeachable offenses then there is no evidence that will sway them.
Today, as every day, in my local newspaper, there are obituaries for the recently killed in Iraq. These obituaries now take up an entire page! How much more of this carnage must occur before our representatives will take action? My heart cries.
Arthur Warren
Posted by: Arthur Warren | July 15, 2007 9:31 PM
Excellent dialogue from everyone thus far! Thank you Bill Moyers for your show with Fein and Nichols.
I agree with D. Albertson that Cheney got what he wanted, a long and profitable war. R. Stanton, thank you for correcting Mike's assertion as to how the show is sponsored. K. Stewart, yes there are too many blogs to read. But, I am elated to see the number of responses and concerned citizens expressing needs for action. Lastly, Pablo de Valle, I understand your comments and would like to clarify a point. My interpretation of Fein's and Nichols' argument is that the rights authorized by the people to the current (questionably elected) leadership (and let us not forget) expects the President and Vice President to adhere and respect the Constitution as well as to protect the rights of the people. What the ccommentators felt to articulate as being problematic is that the rule of law was swept aside to go to war; war in itself is not a violation under the law but the process is what is in question. I hope this is helpful.
Again, thank you Bill. I really appreciate it.
Posted by: RachelP_New York | July 15, 2007 9:04 PM
Thank you for this discussion.
Posted by: Tanya Elder | July 15, 2007 8:35 PM
1) Congratulations to you, Bill Moyers, "and a good few others for continually having the guts to present to the public that the 'Emperor Has No Clothes'.
WE WILL REAP WHAT WE DESERVE IF WE DON'T ACT!"
[Thank you for the eloquence of an earlier responder.] I AGREE 100 PERCENT!
PEOPLE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER IN GROUPS TO ENSURE THAT GOVT ANSWERS TO THE PEOPLE.
2) PBS, PLEASE CONTINUE TO AIR MORE OF THIS PROGRAMMING DURING PRIME TIME, EVERY DAY, UNTIL CHANGE TAKES PLACE, UNTIL IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS ARE HELD, UNTIL TRUTH IS WRITTEN AND SPOKEN FREELY AGAIN, AND MOST OF ALL, UNTIL RULE OF LAW IS RESPECTED! Otherwise, we invite a new dark Feudal order!
3) PBS, please support and help to start CIVIC EDUCATION ON A NATIONAL SCALE through the good offices of your remaining free non-corporate-indebted media. PLEASE ASK VIEWERS TO CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY AND SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS EFFORT! I would respond to the best of my ability!
Posted by: Susan | July 15, 2007 8:35 PM
Can someone please explain to me what law was broken, exactly, where impeachment procedings are in order?
LIE? I thought I heard Hillary and Bill and John Kerry exort the reasons our policy on Iraq should be regime change a few years back... If those were also Lies, then I'm confused
Posted by: chris | July 15, 2007 8:23 PM
Interesting that during the telecast there was not really anyone there to represent the other side of the story. I keep hearing people complain about "the fairness doctrine" for talk radio, but it's concerning that where my tax dollars and contributions to PBS are spent, it to forward only a single view, typically a very liberal one. When do we hear the consservative side of the argument? Is this journalism, or an opinion show?
Posted by: Chris | July 15, 2007 8:20 PM
Take your neighbor to the next forum in your Congressional District. Ask your Congressman to uphold his oath to the Constitution.
Posted by: Vane Lashua | July 15, 2007 8:06 PM
Dear Hon. Rep. Nancy Pelosi:
By ordering its former Counsel, Harriet Miers, to withhold testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, she is about to be found in contempt of Congress. Relevant historical perspective comes from a different former White House Counsel:
http://writ.lp.findlaw.com/dean/20070713.html
At the beginning of the 110th Congress, you are reported to have indicated that impeachment was "off the table" for this session. I respectfully ask you and the Judiciary Committee to place it on the table.
The Office of the Vice President and President Bush have shown repeated disregard for the Separation of Powers which is at the core of our Constitution. For this reason alone I believe it is imperative that the House bring Articles of Impeachment against the President and Vice President. It does not matter if the Senate will convict, but if the House does not act, the precedents set by this outlaw Administration will threaten our constitutional democracy after Bush's term ends.
Sincerely,
Posted by: SR | July 15, 2007 7:35 PM
I was initially against the Iraq War. Then I wanted to support the war because we can not withdraw and leave such a sorry sorry state of affairs for the Iraqui people. Now that the Islamist and other insurgents are exacting a high toll on American, Coalition and Iraq people I beleive that we should end the war. The American people should then insist on Impeachment. Let's serve Bush/Cheney/Rowe up to the world community. Maybe then they can see the value of democracy and how it contends with maniacal Hitleresque Facist intentions of its leaders who stray from the "Rule of Law".
Posted by: E. French | July 15, 2007 7:31 PM
God(s) bless the country in which we are able to voice dichotomous viewpoints, and
(as yet) not be persecuted for our inviolable right to freedom-of-speech. What disturbs me is the prevailing sense of a paranoid America expressed in certain expositions, where the world is composed of rogue-nations bent on the demise of our fragile democracy (such as it remains).
Indeed, Semper fidelis, Semper paratus, Semper Vigilans, as one previous blogger felt the need to express, albeit with a different emphasis in their blog than this one accommodates.
Our country has been here before; Terrorism is our new Communism; our military-industrial complex needs new fuel provided by a continually mis-informed American populace to justify tax-dollars—your tax-dollars—funding federally authorized government contracts with private corporations to do the job of “nation-building” (i.e., economic-prospecting), and law-enforcement (i.e., military policing of populations the U.S.—in our war on terror—was meant to emancipate).
Sentiments have been expressed that America’s lack of historical perspective, particularly military historical perspective lends credence to why so many U.S. citizens are now led astray (by certain liberal-biased PBS news broadcasts), doubting our government, the purpose of our current war in Iraq (or on terrorism), and the perpetual whittling of our most basic civil liberties. Blame Congress for tying the hands of the Bush administration in the implementing of this war, and our military campaign is unable to proceed as ‘effectively’ in obliterating every village and settlement wherein the TERRORIST resides.
Blame Americans for a sorely lacking historical foundation—in our knowledge of U.S. history, classical history, and world histories seen from the perspectives of non-Western nations.
What we also lack is knowledge of People’s History. Simply funneling military feats and the manifestos of a few world leaders into chronological number-crunching in the classrooms of our educational bastions alienates those who are most affected, and ought to be most influential in history—WE THE PEOPLE.
So, yes--in essence, we are led astray by our historical blindness. Our youth emerge from secondary and university education ‘anesthetized’, as one poster commented, by empty entertainment, and mind-numbing news-splats posing as informative reporting; paralleling conveniently, our watered-down megalomania of corporate-funded national ‘news-esque’ sources (the Big Three shall go un-named, not to mention certain cable-aired news stations attempting in-depth reporting with the same finesse ‘I Love Lucy’ gives to tragic drama).
All opinions of Bill Moyer’s broadcast from 7/13/07 with Mr. Nichols and Mr. Fein should be encouraged, whether contrary to his ‘liberal-bias’, or commending his analysis of Constitutional civil liberties and the continued war in Iraq. What is disturbing, however, is the notion I fear popular America holds in believing such journalism--as portrayed by Mr. Moyers—paints a “one-sided analysis”, propagated by a liberal-run media, namely PBS.
Shame on America.
Shame on US—the citizens of the U.S.—for not realizing our apathy; for escaping into the concrete pathos of suburban strip-malls and pop-up, cookie-cutter neighborhoods so we can forget the trauma of the inner-city ghettos, and the diminishing of a once-proud, rural America.
We are so disenchanted with our own government we have forgotten the true nature of democracy is NOT your state representative, NOT Nancy Pelosi, nor Barak Obama. Democracy is US; yet, we liken civic duty nowadays to insipid jury duty, and maybe, voting once every four years. Where is the grassroots community activism; the global impact that starts locally?
What exactly is disturbing about the essence of Bill Moyer’s broadcast? So answered—is it truly the lack of “alternative viewpoints” counter to the over-arching liberal bias of his program? Or is it the notion that Mr. Moyers practices a form of journalism which is an endangered art equated with the likes of Walter Cronkite and (as another blogger alluded to) Edward R. Murrow.
Is the ‘disturbing’ notion reflected in the fact Bill Moyers dares portray a more complex truth regarding Terrorism, its causes, and our war against the said-threat of another attack?
Journalism once held to a tradition of acting in the public interest—the interest of WE THE PEOPLE. Perhaps what bothers some Americans is that Mr. Moyers portrays A TRUTH of this war, where the causes and consequences are not so simplistic/black & white/good versus evil--notions the mainstream media seems to propagate at the prompting of combined government-corporate sponsorship.
WE THE PEOPLE should not excuse the mistakes of our government in fighting this war, exempting them from public accountability in abuses of power, abroad and upon our own shores. If this translates to harsh-seeming critiques of our government policies, our own nation, then truth is often a harsh reality to bear as many a poet, scholar, historian and artist have reflected (and lends support to the continued necessity of the arts and humanities in our culture and civilization).
Tell me, then, where is the substance behind labeling good journalism as “knee-jerk” reactionary reporting if our nation--domestically and internationally--has in truth, been COMPLETELY innocent, honest, and forthcoming in adhering to the precedents of the Geneva Convention; conducting ourselves according to the international dictates governing the trying of war criminals; and perhaps most tellingly, NOT betraying OUR Constitution and the civil liberties set there-in, for all Americans—the documented and undocumented.
If there is another terrorist attack, the question will undoubtedly arise once again—Why us? It should be followed immediately by WHAT, with all our government has supposedly been doing in the last six years since September 11, 2001, did our government not realize in being unable to prevent another violent incident? Is the truth really that the Bush administration was operating with their hands tied behind their backs? That everyone overly concerned with civil liberties, believing to defeat terrorism one must understand the causes of terrorism, these concerned citizens, were in fact, social obstacles preventing the ultimate outcome of our victorious campaign against the Axis of Evil?
Perhaps the reality is a more bitter pill to swallow. The complexities of terrorism and its causes are not so easily defeated by tanks, guns, bombs and ammunition—wherein our own American troops become the perpetrators of crimes against civilians of developing nations. Civilians who generally have nothing to do with the causes of a conflict most of them wish would simply end, no matter who the victor is.
Maybe the most disturbing notion of all is that terrorism has always existed and will always exist—the price of a free, democratic society; not one, mind-you, that is militarily undefended, but a THINKING society that realizes our war has bred nothing but a hatred of American/Western ideals, and escalated the incidence of terrorism worldwide.
We speak of democracy in Baghdad, their ‘coalition government’, yet there is scant clean water to drink, let alone bathe in, any fuel or electricity with which to cook. At least under Saddam, for the average Iraqi, while such basic amenities might have been rationed, they were there. Under a dictator, you were able to walk to work on a street in the light of day and not be kidnapped or taken out by sniper-fire from ‘counter-insurgents’; you could go to the local market-square and not be worried you were victim to yet another car-bomb.
What have democracy and liberty promised by America given to Iraqi civilians when they are now subject to martial law (blamed on the counter-insurgents), military-policing, and the standard of living is worse for the average Iraqi under the ‘emancipators’ than it was under a dictator?
This is how we are fighting our ‘WAR’ on terrorism—by fighting against every common person who is guilty until innocent, and every common person is a terrorist.
Where would your sympathies lie, who would you support, if you were living under such conditions in Baghdad?
And what has this war done to our own civil, Constitutional legacy, asking US—WE THE PEOPLE—to abandon values and freedoms we once treasured as our most sacred sentiments inherited by our founding fathers (and I might add our founding mothers).
Bill Moyers and his journalism prompts people to think, to take a harsh look in the mirror of reality regarding the absolutist politics of an administration subtly paring away the checks and balances of our democratic republic.
If this is “knee-jerk, reactionary reporting and liberal bias”, then Mr. Moyers, I appeal to you, please keep the spark alive, and whack my knees with that reflex hammer.
Posted by: Panacea | July 15, 2007 6:46 PM
To Speaker PELOSI, and others like me with spell disfunction, sorry for the misspell.
Posted by: Goldie | July 15, 2007 5:32 PM
Has anyone considered that Nancy Palosi would be next in line for the Presidency were Cheney and Bush Impeached? How should she go about instituting Articles of Impeachment?
Posted by: Goldie | July 15, 2007 5:26 PM
Has anyone considered that Nancy Palosi would be next in line for the Presidency were Cheney and Bush Impeached? How should she go about instituting Articles of Impeachment?
Posted by: Goldie | July 15, 2007 5:25 PM
Could you please email me your mailing address. I do better writing letters. Thank you.
Posted by: S. J. Majors | July 15, 2007 4:46 PM
To answer Mike, who wonders:
"Why do my tax dollars got to pay for Moyers's rabidly partisan propoganda?
"Moyers is the one who need to be gotten rid of. Let him raise money for his intellectually tripe from the private sector. Why are government dollars spent on this drivel?
"Where is the conservative counterpoint to Moyers? Until PBS finds one, they need to stop with their partisan blather.
"Posted by: Mike | July 15, 2007 10:39 AM"
Not to be sarcastic, Mike, but PBS and Moyers presented the CONSERVATIVE view in the presence of Mr. Fein. Or didn't you notice?
Posted by: Domenic Corsaro | July 15, 2007 4:38 PM
We are sitting on the tracks. We hear the train coming, we feel the rumble under us, but, because up the track there is a bend and we can’t see the rest of the track, we continue to sit where we are. It’s nice where we are, we are comfortable. We have all we need, although the vibration coming through the rails is rattling the table where our snacks are set out. We are listening to the radio, and they are not saying anything about the train. Neither is the TV. We have a vague, uneasy feeling. It’s probably nothing, although the sound is almost deafening now. ...............................................................................Anonymous
The country and the world are in crisis; more so than ever before and partially due to the constant spread of misinformation at a rapid pace. In addition, a good % of our population is uneducated and unread; substituting religious and philosophical beliefs and/or facts for the truth. It almost can't be helped because everyone thinks they are right; as do I. Only if one voraciously reads, thinks, discusses and uses their intellect and sensibilities in an open-minded fashion to pry and discover the truth from the pile of facts, misinformation and outright lies … using other’s opinions, especially valued opinions of educated but also wise observers, will the truths become apparent. Bill Moyers is one of those people.
“Three things cannot long be hidden … the Sun, the Moon and the Truth.” .........................Buddha
We know that accurate and complete info is lacking from the media; but even if available, only a small percentage of people have the education, time and inclination to not only gather the facts but also to assimilate them. This is an unfortunate side effect of a people driven to accumulating as much as they can in as short a time as possible. It is the side effect of lack of education, reasoning ability and ability to make wise choices. It is the side effect of a people who wish to be entertained; to watch sports, not do sports; to live vicariously thru the lives of Desperate Housewives, Survivors, et al. Additionally, it is a side effect of pride; the inability to listen, learn and change; in other words, an inability to gather information and put it to use by transforming one’s beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, etc. based on the continuing flowage of bits and pieces of the truth. Some say this is human nature; I say this is human nature sans humility and wisdom.
The issues presented here by Bill Moyers et al are issues that for a long time have been expressed in "The Media" that most Americans never get to see : that "Media" is the alternative press of the internet and the many blogs therein. After reading a good many of the letters sent in, I am convinced a good percentage of the commentators have never been to sites such as Alternet, Truthout, or CommonDreams. This is as good a place as any to inform the people that there are alternatives to our largely controlled and stifled media. Check these out and get a free subscrition; become an informed member of the year 2007.
“If the sage would guide the people, he must serve with humility. If he would lead them, he must follow behind. In this way when the sage rules, the people will not feel oppressed; when he stands before them, they will not be harmed.” ..........................................................................Lau Tzu
The MO of our government and probably most governments is one which seeks to glorify, justify and intensify it’s actions based on what the largest portion of that smallest percentage of the population holding the greatest amount of power, influence and wealth desires; even if that happens to be only one person e.g. Pharaoh, and even if it is against the will of the other 90%+ of the population. A product of this is the falsification of the news, the facts and the cover ups themselves to the point of absurdity. WORD of the day … SPIN. Without the dissemination of “true facts” as opposed to “any and all facts”, no wonder people are bewildered. When our leaders have consented to the appeasement of that small minority of the power and wealth brokers to constantly lie about the “true facts”, then “all facts” take precedent, becoming equal. The same can be said for people’s opinions. When opinions are based on misconceptions, ignorance, pride, manipulation, propaganda, etc. and are put forth head to head with “true facts”, they, in many people’s eye, become equal. This is neither accurate nor appropriate; but try telling that to a belligerent or unsophisticated or uneducated Everyman; you will be rebuffed. Yes, the “truth will out”; but not before great tragedy may unfold.They, the religious right, call themselves Christians; a word that has all but lost it’s true meaning. If anyone is to be believed in all of this, I put my money on the One to whom the name deserves credit.
“Woe to you scribes and Pharisees (read religious fanatics) you frauds! … like whitewashed tombs, beautiful to look at … but inside full of filth and dead men’s bones. … hypocrisy and evil fill you within.”
.....................................................................Jesus Mt 23:27-28
Hats off to you Bill Moyers, Keith Olberman, Steven Colbert, Jon Stewert, Frank Rich, William R Pitt, and a good few others for continually having the guts to present to the public that the 'Emperor Has No Clothes'.
WE WILL REAP WHAT WE DESERVE IF WE DON'T ACT NOW.
PLEASE CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSPEOPLE AND DEMAND IMPEACHMENT; I HAVE AND I WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO; BE PERSISTENT AND ALSO KEEP EMAILING YOUR FRIENDS WITH BITS AND PIECES OF THE TRUTH.
Posted by: Joe Radoszewski | July 15, 2007 4:27 PM
What a tremendous work of journalism! To hear Mr. Fein speak so passionately and precisely about the crimes and precedents that Bush-Cheney have committed and set has awakened in me a new respect for conservatism. Back in the day, it took Barry "Mr. Conservative" Goldwater to tell Mr. Nixon that the Nation was more important than politics. Thank you, Mr. Moyers, for your journalistic courage and acumen.
Posted by: Domenic Corsaro | July 15, 2007 4:22 PM
What very thought provoking and brilliant presentations were made by your guests ("Impeachment"). There was only one reference to which I take exception, i.e. the use of the word "king". Please ask your guests to consider replacing the word "king" with "autocrat".
Our slippage down the slope to an Imperial Presidency is at the opposite continiuum to democratic monarchy. All your JOURNAL preentations are first rate!The coverage on "Impeachment" must be among the very best!!! Thank You, Bill.
Posted by: Georg | July 15, 2007 4:03 PM
A most informative interview on the July 15, 2007 of The Journal on PBS.
Now I am concerned of retribution by Congress of not funding PBS, since the interview stated factually issues not favorable to Congress. God help us all!!!
Posted by: Barry Wright | July 15, 2007 4:01 PM
To Randy Here is the link to the Directive 51-
http://www.whitehouse.gov.edgesuite.net/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
Posted by: Jeff Findeis | July 15, 2007 3:42 PM
I can't believe what I'm reading. The legislative branch should stop meddling? Bush should be impeached. He should've been impeached 2 years ago! Republicans are so hot to get Clinton for Lewinsky, yet when Bush lies to _take the country into war_, not a peep? I am astounded. He & Cheney belong in prison. And not a Club Fed, one of the Supermaxes they're building with such abandon for their lunatic drug war. That appears to be the solution to all opposition: smash it. Today's edition gets it exactly right. If Bush/Cheney aren't impeached, the country will leave the next President, & all those who follow, with incredible powers to suppress dissent at home, regardless of terrorists abroad, & that frigtens me more than Al-Qaeda.
Posted by: kevin faber | July 15, 2007 3:04 PM
Thank you to Don Albertson for the Pelosi link.
Posted by: Jeff Findeis | July 15, 2007 3:04 PM
Diane's comments are excellent. Interestingly, the link to Presidential Directive 51 no longer works. When I tried to search for it on the White House web page I got NO results.
Posted by: Randy | July 15, 2007 1:49 PM
I have never seen Mr. Moyer's show before, and I am not sure how I started watching it Friday. I must admit the subject matter gripped me and I was equally intrigued by the concept of a show in which the moderator surrendered the entire format to the guests. I have no way to judge if this is the norm but if so I am not certain as to why is it referred to as Mr. Moyer's journal.
Regarding the subject of the show, I found myself engaged and enraged at many of the views and ideas generated by the guests, and I am not a Bush fan. However, I am a huge fan of the U.S. Constitution and our system of governance.
I am especially a fan of the separation of powers concept. I think this is the main fail-safe that guards our Constitution from perversion and yet allows it to remain current. That said I think I can safely say that while many fingers for many reasons point to the executive branch for being responsible for the Iraq War, the President had NO vote in the matter. The responsibility for approving this war rest entirely with the legislative branch. If citizens are feeling betrayed and want to hold someone accountable then they need to point to the legislative branch.
Once a decision to go to war has been made the responsibility then shifts to the executive branch, the commander-in-chief. When I was in the army, all of our operations headquarters always had a wall with the pictures of the chain of command and I don't ever remember seeing a picture of the U.S. Congress. Rightfully so, while wars are fought in the interest of politics, wars should never be subject to the changing winds of legislative policy.
It is my hope and my prayer that no war will ever be popular and that this one will end soon but until it does end meddling by the legislative branch into matters of the executive branch only confuses the citizens and makes matters far worse.
Posted by: TM | July 15, 2007 1:35 PM
Let this fantastic show be a catalyst for discussion, action and change! Donate to PBS and let them know you are doing this specifically out of gratitude for Bill’s show, and encourage more shows like this. Write your elected officials with links to Bill’s show. Educate everyone - your family, friends, neighbors, classmates; expand beyond “the choir”. Write the media demanding they do their job, although given the current control of the media, change may be difficult. It is largely the absence of media coverage of such important information that has allowed so many to be lulled into a stupor with “reality” shows, while the true reality, our country and our Constitution are being decimated. People cannot respond to that they don’t know about, so until the media does a better job, we must educate others. Write all the presidential candidates telling them to put country ahead of personal political ambitions. All their time, energy and money invested in campaigning could well be for nothing if we don’t first address and resolve our huge immediate crisis; we may well have NO elections in 2008 if this continues!
It is easy to feel hopeless since our government and much of media have failed us, but people power works! Just look back to a month ago; the ill-conceived Immigration Bill failed largely due to pressure from the people. The people-powered Civil Rights Movement of the 1960’s resulted in tremendous, unthinkable changes. Go to http://www.opensecrets.org for information on what companies contribute to who, and boycott those companies (ex., Chevron, Exxon Mobil, GlaxcoSmithKine) contributing to elected officials or to causes detrimental to this country, as well as TV and radio sponsors. If you’re invested in these companies, disinvest. Encourage your family, friends, neighbors, classmates to do the same. As in the Civil Rights bus boycotts, as in South Africa, change will more likely come through impacting these companies financially.
We have little time. In May 2007 bush signed Presidential Directive 51 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html, granting him the right to assume extraordinary powers under martial law. bush’s declining public support, Chertoff’s “gut feeling”, bush’s “feeling in his head”, and escalating problems with Iran lead me to a very bad feeling that the stage is being set to implement PD51 soon, especially troubling as we enter the presidential election cycle. This group has been planning for 20 years. It seems not likely they will give up all this power to Democrats in ‘08. This group met with no resistance over questionable elections in 2000 and 2004, what’s to stop them from calling the whole thing off in 2008 and letting bush carry on under martial law. Throughout history, in extraordinary times, the people have acted and brought about change. Can there be a more critical time than now?
Posted by: Diane | July 15, 2007 12:51 PM
This may be a repeat comment because I hit the enter key before I had a chance to edit my original comment. Sorry.
It seems that few have focused on the impeachment and other legal issues around the fall of the Twin Towers on 9/11. Physicists and engineers have written that the buildings could not have fallen the way they did unless they had demolition help.
http://spontinuity.com/Truth_About_9-11.pdf
There are scientific studies of 911 at
http://www.journalof911studies.com
The Journal of 9/11 Studies is a peer-reviewed journal related to 911.
I wonder if a program can be put together on this issue? The arguements for the demolition of the buildings seem compelling.
Thanks Bill Moyers for all the good work you do.
Posted by: Randy | July 15, 2007 12:46 PM
Thank you for this episode. Thank you thank you thank you for having guests with the intestinal fortitude to point out that the Congress doesn't know what their constitutional role is. To have a solidly Republican guest decry what this Administration is doing to the constitution just adds credibility to the argument, that gives structure to an uneasy feeling many of us have in the pits of our stomachs. I plan to make as many of my friends and family aware of this episode as possible. THIS is journalism....not the pablum we get from the Disney-owned and Turner-owned outlets of big business. Keep up the good work.
Posted by: Terri | July 15, 2007 11:26 AM
Mr. Moyers:
My understanding is that President Bush went before the Congress to obtain permission to declare war against Iraq should it become necessary to do so after he had exhaused all attempts to avoid military action. Is this correct? If so, I have two questions:
1) What steps did he take to avoid war once Congress gave him authority.
2) Did our representatives actually vote to go to war, or did they vote to give Mr. Bush permission based on his promises to use permission as a last resort? The media gives the impression they actually voted for the war - can you clarify this point?
Posted by: Robert C. Lander | July 15, 2007 11:24 AM
Here is the link to contact Nancy Pelosi:
http://speaker.house.gov/contact/
Use it to tell her what you think about holding impeachment hearings. She need to be reminded that she has a duty to support and defend the Constitution.
Posted by: Don Albertson | July 15, 2007 11:19 AM
I read the transcript of the July 13 show. Excellent! In your closing comments you stated that perpetual war was sure to feed into the excess of power in the presidency and endanger the constitution.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Cheney speaking of perpetual war from the first days of office? I believe he had planned all along to use the "long war" and the resultant "war powers" as the key lever to force the changes on the government.
9-11 just gave his project the extra boost; they are still using it.
More and more I see George Bush as the useful fool in Cheney’s vendetta on the Constitution. Cheney has had years to conjure up this attack.
I am not sure Cheney was ever really a neo-con, but he saw how they could be useful to his goals. Cheney may not care that much how things go in Iraq, he needed a long war and he's got it.
I am really curious about how he views the future. Where was all this supposed to go? What was his motivation? Let's torture him and find out.
Posted by: Patrick Hunter | July 15, 2007 11:12 AM
Thank you, Bill Moyers, for your program on impeachment. Your show moved me to action--writing letters to Nancy Pelosi and my representative as well as writing to my newspaper. I am afraid that on most occasions your good work is just "preaching to the choir." This time you inspired this choir member to sing a solo! Thank you for all you do.
Posted by: Rick Stanton | July 15, 2007 11:02 AM
From Mike: "Let him raise money for his intellectually tripe from the private sector. Why are government dollars spent on this drivel?"
He doesn't use government money! He raises it in full from the private sector! This argument is completely false!
Got another one??
Posted by: john | July 15, 2007 10:56 AM
OK here is the deal. Moyers is a foolish partisan pundit like Hannity. They only difference is that Moyers is liberal.
Fans of Moyers who consider him to be a "straight shooter" are like fans of Hannity who also think Hannity is a "straight shooter". The only differnce is that Moyers' fans are liberal.
Extremists on both sides of the aisle are the same, they just have different political viewpoints. They are all fools.
Posted by: Marc Rose | July 15, 2007 10:46 AM
Why do my tax dollars got to pay for Moyers's rabidly partisan propoganda?
Moyers is the one who need to be gotten rid of. Let him raise money for his intellectually tripe from the private sector. Why are government dollars spent on this drivel?
Where is the conservative counterpoint to Moyers? Until PBS finds one, they need to stop with their partisan blather.
Posted by: Mike | July 15, 2007 10:39 AM
Bruce Fein and John Nichols are both scholars and patriots!
My suggestion is that people need to write their representatives demanding impeachment of Dick Cheney, not George Bush.
To be victorious in the people's fight to save the Constitution and the Republic, Cheney is the soft target. He will have much less support and is the kingpin in the attack on our Constitution. As noted by Mr Fein our current president is cerebrally challenged. Putting the hammer down on the VP would instill the fear of God in our happless leader. Of course, if the president failed to grasp the gravity of the impeachment of Cheney, and continued to act as a de facto Monarch, his impeachment would also be necessitated.
The Constitution is of greater importance than any person, or party. I have just finished reading this great document, and as Bruce Fein stated, impeachment is prominantly mentioned therein FIVE times.
People of the country need to turn off their "Reality Shows" and take in the Reality that our way of life and freedom are under attack. Contact your Representatives and tell them to transition from spin to spine! Also contact your Senators, they cant initiate impeachment proceedings, but they need to know the strength of the wind that is (or should be) blowing.
Thanks to Bill Moyers for airing the impeachment discussion with Fein and Nichols.
Posted by: martin behannesey | July 15, 2007 9:51 AM
This first paragraph was taken from elsewhere on the site: In his recent article, "In Praise of Impeachment," Nichols argues "While the Constitution handed Congress the power to officially check such despotism, Jefferson and his colleagues fully expected the American people {emphasis added} to be the champions of the application of the rule of law to an errant executive."
The current situation is directly and immediately applicable. The populace should push the media --- all media --- to saturation coverage (e.g. this Moyers' program run and rerun everywhere) and the congress to action to build on the "seed" that's already planted, i.e., H.R. 333.
It is crystal clear that the media and congress were cowered into submission by the occurrence of September 11, 2001. There were a few righteous souls who were not intimidated by the politics of fear and demonization. However, for the most part, at best, they both, if truth be told, feared the reaction of a scared and manipulated populace. Of course, there were those who joined the team of fear mongers. After circa 6 years of this, it is only the unrelenting insistence of the populace which will move the process along the path which Fein and Nichols (and Kucinich) delineate.
Posted by: POLpursun | July 15, 2007 9:10 AM
McCain has it wrong, and Dems, America, can't let his framing stand.
McCain says its a fact that losing a war breaks a military harder than losing. He then says pulling out would be legislating defeat.
The truth is that the Iraq war is breaking our military. Morale is low because of multiple tours of duty, 15 month stays, extended tours with little notice, and the plain to see fact on the ground that we are accomplishing nothing.
Bush is breaking our military. Plain fact. Don't let _anyone_ tell you differently.
Posted by: wwz | July 15, 2007 8:23 AM
Bill's discussion with Nichols and Fein says it all. Let us prevail on our representatives to begin Impeachment Hearings.
Posted by: Sherryll Mleynek | July 15, 2007 4:05 AM
This show and these thoughtful, passionate, intelligent comments are SUCH a relief! Our country is not lost, after all. Here's one more extremely important thing we can do--Fire the Grid!
This is a worldwide meditation starting on July 17 at 11:11 Greenwich time, or 4:11 a.m.PDT, during which we focus on peace and healing the earth, channeling light from above. We all need to take part, to fire the grid of human consciousness and raise it to a higher level. One person with thoughts of love and peace can balance a hundred immersed in fear and anger. We really can change the world. So let's do it!
Posted by: Susan McCabe | July 15, 2007 3:55 AM
I have a bad feeling-the following is starting be make me nervous. There has been a dramatic increase by Bush & Cheney in the use of the words "terrorist" and Al-Queda-27 or 30 times was one count of the total usages of Al-Queda the other day by Bush. On July 11th, Sec. Chertoff of Homeland security announces this "Gut Feeling" statement. Now we have a THIRD Aircraft Battle Group on its way the the Middle East, Iran becomes agreeable to inspection, Are they scared?, in the Washington Times, they state Bush now saying "There's a lot of discussion about a scenario in which our troop posture would be to guard the territorial integrity of the country of Iraq"-so-we are now getting ready to move troops to the border of Iran?, Bush was killing time and distracting peoples attn. on the immigration bill-way?, lately, Bush and Chaney have risen to new heights of disregard and disrespect for the law, and he re-wrote the parameters of the requirements to declare martial law-the triggering event does not have to happen here and could be simply an act of nature or just a power grid failure as long as it has some effect on the united States. Mix this well without the pinch of Habeas Corpus and a hint of threat of "Enemy Combatant". Let use our imagination now with Blackwater, who Wikipedia refers to as both a security company AND a private military company.
So, what do we do? Continue to Blog each other until something happens? What the hell will we do?
WE THE PEOPLE...better do something!
I am concerned because I don't think we have much time-we are going in the right direction and gaining speed -just may run out of time. Suggestion Mr. Moyer? I will listen.
Posted by: Jeff Findeis | July 15, 2007 3:25 AM
...previously posted....
"If impeachment is brought against both Bush and Cheney together, and succeeds, Pelosi is president. How does this look? I can see why she wouldn't want to do this. In the end, she is right."
Oh, please! The time for considering "how things look" is w-a-a-y over.
It's about DOING THE RIGHT THING, AT ALL COSTS!
We are headed for a constitutional train wreck in this great country.
Now, *everyone* must begin the march.....individual letters to newspapers, congressional contingents and Speaker Pelosi, especially; democrat/republican/independent parties must bring forth resolutions, letters, town meetings....... this is what the founders *intended*, for pity's sake. Where is the fire? Where is the passion? Where is the spine?!?!?
Strolling around with raised eyebrows, puckered lips, steaming in intellectual rants about the state of the state to each other is wholly ineffective. It is time for "in-your-face" dialog with congress, demanding the process of impeachment begin. They obviously will not do it on their own. They must be reminded that the people expect it.
As for our standing in the world theater, holding Bush/Cheney accountable for treasonous acts might be the only appeasement.....but impeachment would go a long way toward improvement
Posted by: KAA | July 15, 2007 3:13 AM
It is time that the American people and those men and women who represent our wishes take our constitution and our country back. I believe we sent a clear message to the Congress and the President in November of 2006 that “we the people” want a change and we want it now; we expected that change to start then, not nine months later, not after we implement a “SURGE” that may or may not work, and surly not after we find out that apparently no one, or very few, of our elected representatives got the message. I am outraged at the direction our government has taken since George W. Bush and Dick Cheney came to power.
Something must be done to rein in this executive branch that daily thumbs its nose at our legislative branch and has turned our judicial branch into a powerless limb that has been diseased and weakened by political corruption and cronyism. It is time that our elected representatives listen to what the people have said. If impeachment of Dick Cheney, or George W. Bush is the only way to get the job done; then so be it!
Posted by: JDKINPA | July 15, 2007 1:54 AM
It is down-right SCARY how
this administration has proceeded like a monarchy. Makes me wonder what are the true motives of this war that is probably creating more terrorists. Are BUSH BUDDIES
quietly siphoning off millions
in war monies that aren't recorded in the official budget ?
Posted by: C J | July 15, 2007 1:17 AM
great show.
I was yelling at the screen for someone to mention Dennis Kucinich and HR333
http://www.impeachcheney.org
An earlier link had the wrong info for the Los Angeles Impeachment Center. Here is a link to that site as well as video from a July 12 Impeachment Forum.
http://www.cotam.org/blog/archives/28
Posted by: Matthew | July 15, 2007 1:07 AM
It’s almost been six years now my fellow Americans since 9/11, and no one mentions the central crime this administration perpetuated. Would we be in Iraq trying to police a civil war if it were not for the oil? The goal of the Cheney “energy task force” back in 2001 was to facilitate ideas into controlling Iraq’s massive oil reserves. A “New Pearl Harbor” was born. Did Bin Laden plant the explosives needed to bring the buildings down? I cannot understand how blind and mute honest hard working Americans are to the most brazen and vicious mass murder committed against its own citizens. Do your homework America and hang these bastards.
Posted by: Kent Stewart | July 15, 2007 12:55 AM
To Matt Tyson:
You and I have fallen victim to the BLOG. By that I mean that there are too many posts for us all to read them all. My first post on the 14th at 1205 am spoke about the show and my fears that the American people are too sated to demand action and our legislators are too tied to thier careers and the special interest money to move. Then when I came back and reviewed the posts I saw posts in two flavors: the great "Thank you" posts and the screaming vitrolic "your a moron" posts (very few).
I don't think we should all agree. I think we should, however, be able to disagree with out getting nasty about it.
In the mean time, I believe that impeachment hearings will reign in the Office of the President and will serve to clear the air before the next election circus.
Posted by: Guy Bergeson | July 15, 2007 12:29 AM
It would be interesting for Lee Partide to tell us exactly what facts and or claims from Friday's impeachment show need refuting. Seems like the straw man argument to me. Let's accuse the media of bias when the Left is finally given the chance to bring out sound points. Never mind years of right wing blather by the likes of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbau, et al.
Posted by: Rob Davis | July 15, 2007 12:12 AM
PLAIN AND SIMPLE .... THE MOST POWERFUL , MEANINGFULL AND PROMISING DISCUSSION SINCE 9-11. HOW CAN WE PROMOTE DEMOCRACY ABROAD, WHILE WE DESTROY OURS AT HOME ? IF WE TURN OUR CONSTITUTION UPSIDE DOWN IN ORDER TO PREVENT FUTURE TERRORIST ACTS, THEN THE TERRORIST HAVE ALREADY WON, GAME - OVER. THIS SHOW SHOULD BE GIFT WRAPPED AND DELIVERED TO EVERY AMERICAN, AT THE VERY LEAST, EVERY CONGRESSMAN. THANK-YOU ... MR. MOYERS...!!!!
Posted by: Thomas Jefferson | July 15, 2007 12:01 AM
The Pelosi Congress is struggling to make its mark with legislation, when the real mark that needs made is to ensure that monarchical behavior by a President will not be tolerated.
Unless there is serious pushback to the Bush and Cheney administration through impeachment, Pelosi and the Democrats will be viewed as weaklings deserving to have sand kicked in their face.
Except that they have allowed the sand to really be kicked in the people's face.
Posted by: Robb | July 14, 2007 11:36 PM
Great program, although I am disappointed that Dennis Kucinich (who introduced articles of impeachment agains Cheney) wasn't mentioned once.
Also, I want to point out that the last comment by Lee Patride laments the one-sidededness of Bill Moyers and likens it to irrationality, yet gives not one example of it.
Posted by: Isome | July 14, 2007 11:21 PM
One sided and misleading. Bill Moyers is a good presenter and very smooth, but what is frightening is the power he and the media exercise by presenting information that neglects so many facts, and does not present rebuttal by the myriad others who can refute claims made on this show, and point out their dangers. I am NO Bush fan, but your show edges on apalling by misrepresentations. One can see how far this has gone by reading how many people in media (and thus among the population) compare Bush to such people as Hitler. That kind of extremism presented under the guise of objective journalism is what is MOST scarey in our culture. Over and over since "The Power of Myth" I have watched Moyers tilt more and more to one-sidedness..... His programs aim to convince to a certain point of view by neglecting other valid views. And look how many cheer this on, not wanting the full story to be presented! Yes I fear for my country... via this kind of media.
Posted by: Lee Partide | July 14, 2007 11:08 PM
Mr. Moyers,
It's a terrible feeling to know the wrong doing and the not doing of all the "leaders" we elected and at the same time see how lawless and tolerant persecution has become. But at the end I can see the small beam of hope, thanks to incredible people like you and all the great reporters at PBS. Thank you for giving us truth.
Posted by: Pablo del Valle | July 14, 2007 10:53 PM
Impeaching is the process by which the Constitution is preserved for our republic.
Impeaching Bush and Cheney would not only set straight that a dictator is not acceplable, but also would tell the world that Americans do not agree with their war and tactics. We need a new reputation in the world view to re-establish USA as a compassionate, logical democracy, and not a dictatorship run by tyrants.
_________________
Posted by: coju4u | July 14, 2007 10:39 PM
I really appreciated your program and guests last evening. It was nice to have experts explain what Impeachment is and how it works to make our democracy stronger. Please re-air this program. It is important that people have an opportunity to see it.
Each of us needs to send a letter to our representatives and to the Speaker demanding they start the impeachment process of both Vice President Cheney and President Bush. It is important to remind Congress that they are a separate, equal branch of government and it is time to take back the power that constitutionally resides with them as an institution.
This is not a partisan issue, as a matter of fact the Democrats don't seem to know what to do and the media is still asleep at the wheel.
Posted by: Diane Zeck | July 14, 2007 9:47 PM
Bush and Cheney are guilty of impeachable offenses and should be impeached irrespective of any political fall out.
Posted by: Gary Ricin | July 14, 2007 9:41 PM
The rapture is not an exit strategy....
Posted by: Kathy Bonham | July 14, 2007 9:24 PM
Thank you so much for this program. I sent the link on the impeachment program to the house judiciary committee. We can only hope that some courageous and patriotic representatives will act soon.
Posted by: Margaret Bandy | July 14, 2007 9:19 PM
Kucinich, Conyers, et. al. aside, the reason that the House leadership will not act is the old dog that has haunted democrats for almost two generations: "weak on national defense". Bush has made himself unimpeachable so long as there is one U.S. soldier in harms way in Iraq. If the democrats were to move in on Bush, he would immediately and speciously charge that they have the same agenda as Al-Queda: target our leaders. Bush continues to position himself as the St. George of the New World. He stands as our only hedge against the tide of Islamic Fundamentalism. So sad it is that he is sacrificing the treasury of our nation: the lives of our youth and for those who are fortunate enough to keep their lives, the untold debts that continue to accumulate. Truely reprehensible.
Posted by: Kevin Mannella | July 14, 2007 9:15 PM
THANK YOU! It was wonderful to hear such an intelligent, knowledgeable discussion of impeachment. While we may know that things are going wrong in this country, we haven't the education to know exactly what the legal requirements are for the impeachment that must happen. In order to start to regain our standing in this world, we must show the world that we fully reject the practices of this regime. Thank you again for what is one of the best shows we have seen on television in years.
Posted by: Diane Clark & Bill Reilly | July 14, 2007 8:52 PM
I watched last nights show with glee. Finally someone on television was articulating what I have been thinking. This morning, when I examined the blogs, I found no mention of "impeachment." Maybe it is too soon for Kos and Arianna to get their hands around such a concept.
Posted by: Bruce Ashkenas | July 14, 2007 8:27 PM
Many of the comments are blaming Nancy Pelosi for not bringing impeachment proceedings. Could it be that in the Senate where they would need at least 60 votes to move for impeachment, that there are 51 Democrats vs 49 Republicans. Even if 100% of the Democrats voted in favor, that would not be enough votes. The Republicans would most likely do as they did with the bill to bring home the troops. It is likely they would stonewall and vote in a bloc against impeachment. Think about it before you blame Ms. Pelosi. Why not blame the Republicans for allowing the Bush Administration to run roughshod over the Constitution for 6 years?
Posted by: E. Snyder | July 14, 2007 8:26 PM
As others, I was confused by the change in the program title from, what was it, something like "The Impeachment Debate" to "The War Debate"(???)! I couldn't figure out where the program went to. It must frustrate Bill Moyers no end when the pansies at PBS reconstruct his shows. Now, it appears because this show has created such a whirlwind of comment they have orders to monkey wrench this thing. Throw it off track.
I will be attending the Arizona State Committee of the Democratic Party meeting next month. We will be voting on an impeachment resolution crafted by our local Progressive Democrats, the Sonora Progressives. Nancy, impeachment is back on the table, baby!
Posted by: Jim Hannley | July 14, 2007 8:13 PM
Regarding the piece on impeachment: your two guests did not carry their analysis far enough. They should have traced the consequences of several possible scenarios. If impeachment is brought against Bush first, and succeeds, Cheney is president. Not a good outcome. If impeachment is brought against both Bush and Cheney together, and succeeds, Pelosi is president. How does this look? I can see why she wouldn't want to do this. If Cheney is impeached first, Bush can appoint a new vice-president. He may appoint one of the current candidates for the Republican nomination for president. He may choose Romney. This would give him an advantage of incumbency (altho' it didn't help Rockefeller) which would all but guarantee his victory over any Democratic candidate. Time is very short to start impeachement proceedings. They would take more than a year. It would serve no purpose because it is unlikely, given Bush's character (or lack of it) he wouldn't be chastened by the experience nor would he understand the principles behind it. In the end, Pelosi is right.
Posted by: Judith Abeles | July 14, 2007 8:03 PM
Thank you for the show on impeachment
At least there are two people of committment and intelligence still in Washington.
While I would favor indictment and incarceration in one of our infamous secret presons for
Cheney and Bush, Mssrs. Fein and Nichels made an eloquent and compelling case for Impeachment.
How do we continue along this path?
Riki Griswold
Posted by: Riki Griswold | July 14, 2007 8:03 PM
Regarding the piece on impeachment: your two guests did not carry their analysis far enough. They should have traced the consequences of several possible scenarios. If impeachment is brought against Bush first, and succeeds, Cheney is president. Not a good outcome. If impeachment is brought against both Bush and Cheney together, and succeeds, Pelosi is president. How does this look? I can see why she wouldn't want to do this. If Cheney is impeached first, Bush can appoint a new vice-president. He may appoint one of the current candidates for the Republican nomination for president. He may choose Romney. This would give him an advantage of incumbency (altho' it didn't help Rockefeller) which would all but guarantee his victory over any Democratic candidate. Time is very short to start impeachement proceedings. They would take more than a year. It would serve no purpose because it is unlikely, given Bush's character (or lack of it) he wouldn't be chastened by the experience nor would he understand the principles behind it. In the end, Pelosi is right.
Posted by: Judith Abeles | July 14, 2007 8:02 PM
Dear Bill Moyers:
Congratulations! Once again you have brought a very timely and important subject to the attention of the American Public in a very professional way. The two people you had as guests to discuss the subject of impeaching the members of the present administration were extremely knowledgeable and professional in their discussion of the issues. I have always had a great respect for you and the way you bring important issues to the attention on all Americans (at least those willing to watch something worth while and not the typical sitcom junk). You and the two experts on this subject were able to discuss the subject in a very level headed, thoughtful way instead of the spiteful, arrogant, ignorant rantings usually so representative of the typical right wing talking heads to be seen and heard on right wing radio and tv venues. Thanks for airing this very important subject at this time. I am sure that this will get a lot of people to thinking and perhaps even supporting the impeachment of some very; bad, incompetent, arrogant members of this administration.
Posted by: Jerome Decker | July 14, 2007 7:59 PM
Thanks for the very excellent show. I agree, however, with many other commenters, that you did not mention people like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul, both whom I consider true statesmen. If you examine Ron Paul, you will find that he is a true constitutionalist and defender of our freedom. I would very much like to see him on your show very soon. I have, over the past year, become more and more alarmed at what I have learned about our government and its complete sellout to corporatism and greed. Of course, if you study history, you can see that the federal reserve system is a scam of immense proportions and deserves nothing less than complete abolishment. Once you restore sound monetary policy to a nation, amazing things are once again possible as the reigns of the few power brokers who really run the show are handed back to the people.
Posted by: Bill Dixon | July 14, 2007 7:57 PM
Dear Bill Moyers,
I don't want to imagine how I would be handling the current political situation without your insightful, brave, honest commentary and interviews. Alas, your show is broadcast in Asheville at 11 PM - way past my bedtime. I stay up anyway, and then can't fall asleep, I am so wrought up about what should be obvious to people in power and what they ought to be talking about. Please, please, please keep doing what you're doing, in the face of what must be difficult obstacles. Our collective soul and our democracy is at stake.
Posted by: Fran Ross | July 14, 2007 7:57 PM
It was indeed a privelege to view and absorb the viscerally exciting(for me) and courageous discourse presented last night(July 13) on Bill Moyers Journal on PBS! This broadcast ,in my opinion, deserves a place of honor alongside the likes of the now legendary Edward R. Murrow anti-McCarthyism reports and live debates of the 1950's. No guilty party(again, in my opinion) was spared objective criticism and detailed analysis by both Bruce Fein and John Nichols. I especially relished the very educational and refreshingly "eye opening" scathing of our present day Congressional representatives who have for a very long time been addicted to their very own fear of political and, even worse, mainstream media controlled attack from dumbed down flagwavers who have lost all understanding of the basic elements of our founding fathers' principles for a just and safe society. The ease and apparent joy that Mr. Moyers oozed (as he almost invisibly took on an intelligent, open minded role as "devil's advocate" as a means of providing a catalyst for the almost spontaneously combustible rapid fire deliverance by these two remarkably insightful and dedicated TRUE PATRIOTS) was so full of the true essence of free speech journalism and genuine courage against the "spooks" prying into our individual rights as concerned and truly informed Americans!. For me, it was stamped in fresh words into my political consciousness by Mr. Nichols as he, with a great little smile that let us know he knew he was about to say something of EXTREME importance, told Mr. Moyers(or the "role" he was assuming at that moment) that the Constitutional Crisis is happening NOW! and does NOT BEGIN with impeachment proceedings. This sadly obvious fact can be morally, legally, and constitutionally redressed and bound in renewed precedent for the now threatened future of a balanced democratic republic based on our founding principles of government FOR and BY the PEOPLE by the very process of a passionate pursuance of the truth behind the dark secrets in the Executive Branch and the reclaiming of the integrity of Congressional oversight by those who have been sent to do just that by the American voters(most of us, I hope). This broadcast on Bill Moyers' Journal should be included in both high school and college level courses in all areas of study that touch upon American history, society, political currents, and most of all, True patriotic activism. The subject matter and its treatment last night hopefully will bring desparately needed real attention to our MOST dangerous present day crisis: the permanent shifting of the governance of our way of living and a complete collapse of our position as a country that at least continues to "try to get it right" to the "knee-jerk" insanity of our post "911" society. Finally, Mr. Cheney, as the quintessential "corruptor" of the entire picture, and Mr. Bush, as the willing puppet for fringe and not so fringe social interest groups(from multi-national corporations to religious zealots not unlike the radical and violent Islamist groups), along with the other key members of this self annointed all-powerful government(including some members of Congress) MUST be openly exposed in full public view and prosecuted in courts if necessary, if we are to redirect our nation and regain some true national security in the face of a world in serious and troubling change.
Posted by: Bruce Robertson | July 14, 2007 7:44 PM
CODA
A bad penny always returns. Thus I wish to add a postscript after reading the other comments. Although the points your guests made were strong and more than valid, there was little (except in your wrapup mention (if any) about the war, the most egregious war crime since... (fill in Vietnam, Pol Pot, Darfur, Nazi Germany, take your choice of the first hundred listings. In an earlier book when Robert Bly and I co-founded American Writers Against the Vietnam War, I wrote a line in a poem dedicated to Senator Wayne Morse (one of the very few who spoke up against the war) that The New York Times quoted: "Some of us were born in the wrong land to become war criminals." I would hate to have to change my assertion in that statement. Evidently Bush, Cheney, and Cabal still think they can turn us into complicit war criminals. May the day soon come when the Nuremburg rules will be used to bring them to justice. But first the American people will have to reject them one hundred percent and reinstate their (our) integrity.
David Ray
Posted by: David Ray | July 14, 2007 7:35 PM
It's time for revolution. This government has usurped the power of "We the People" and has forgotten our noble roots. Liars and thieves must no longer rule. By the people, for the people? Not any more. Thank you Bill Moyers
Posted by: Julie Kinnear | July 14, 2007 7:25 PM
Dear Editors:
I am disturbed that my message of this morning expressing my admiration for last night’s program and my strong desire to move forward on Impeachment was evidently blocked. Perhaps I inadvertently violated one of your rules? Was it by chance my mentioning my anti-war book or giving my web name??? Is poetry a verboten genre, as it is in most of the media?
I’d appreciate clarification.
THE SCORECARD
As if he owns a baseball team
our president often checks
what he calls his Scorecard,
how many of his guys --
meaning our team -- get killed
daily and how many of their
guys have been blown to ash
in the previous twenty four hours.
We’ve paid a lot for our tickets
to this game, the play extended
for over four years already.
And now I hold a new scorecard,
the poll of how many Americans
are in favor of impeaching Bush
and how many are for impeaching
Cheney -- and how many, to get
it over with, are for impeaching
both, as if they are as one.
I am not, however, holding my breath.
A LIGHTER VERSION
I am old enough to recall Edgar Bergen
and his puppet Charlie McCarthy
who sat on his knee, and although I think
of George Bush and Dick Cheney
as a team like Charlie and Edgar
I know that the wooden puppet Pinocchio
bears an even more accurate resemblance
as their two noses grow longer and longer
with each lie they tell -- noses that any day
may reach to the moon, and farther.
Respectfully,
David Ray
Posted by: David Ray | July 14, 2007 7:19 PM
My reaction is something said before. I got this from Wikipedia.
"In Sixteen Hundred and Forty-Eight
When England suffered the pains of state
The Roundheads lay siege to Colchester town
Where the King's men still fought for the crown
There One-Eyed Thompson stood on the wall
A gunner of deadliest aim of all
From St. Mary's Tower his cannon he fired
Humpty-Dumpty was its name... "
And we know the rest.
"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again"
Posted by: Charles R. Donaldson | July 14, 2007 7:16 PM
You've made me glad to be an American again. I was feeling ashamed of it. I was feeling that I didn't care to travel. I was feeling very sad and disheartened. Thank you for your courage and your intelligence. Thank you for putting the constitution in focus. Thank the founding fathers for our democracy. Long may it live with good men and women keeping truth in their sights. Thank you, Bill Moyers.
Posted by: Ida Spaulding | July 14, 2007 7:16 PM
My reaction is something said before. I got this from Wikipedia.
"In Sixteen Hundred and Forty-Eight
When England suffered the pains of state
The Roundheads lay siege to Colchester town
Where the King's men still fought for the crown
There One-Eyed Thompson stood on the wall
A gunner of deadliest aim of all
From St. Mary's Tower his cannon he fired
Humpty-Dumpty was its name... "
And we know the rest.
"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again"
Posted by: Charles R. Donaldson | July 14, 2007 7:16 PM
Why did the heading for this show change from 'Impeachment' to 'The War Debate'? anyway...
Thank you for your show on IMPEACHMENT. It was bold, informative and courageous of you, and long overdue.
It was, however, a SHOCKING OMISSION THAT YOU DID NOT MENTION ONCE THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT THAT HAVE 15 CONGRESS MEMBERS AND A SENATE MEMBER, BARBARA BOXER, behind them.
YOU DID NOT MENTION ONCE DENNIS KUCINICH AND HIS ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT, WHO IS THE CONGRESSMAN OF STRENGTH AND COURAGE who has been standing up and fighting for our Constitution.
YOU DID NOT MENTION ONCE JOHN CONYERS AND HIS ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT, who was on national TV last weekend discussing it.
SIR, I DEMAND YOU MENTION THESE ON YOUR NEXT SHOW, OR KINDLY STEP DOWN YOURSELF.
Sincerely,
June Caldwell
Posted by: June Caldwell | July 14, 2007 7:16 PM
I can't believe we aren't having a revolution. We would be, except for the fact that the media is also controlled by rich corporate interests, in addition to Congress. Bush and his corporate cohorts stole the last two elections, destroyed the separation of church and state, got us into trillions of dollars of debt, started a war on false pretenses, and were probably behind 9/11. Not to mention vouchers, the undermining of women's rights, persecutions of gays, faith-based initiatives, packing the Supreme Court with evangelical fundamentalist fascists, and the incorporation of the Patriot Act. The American people know what is going on; they just have nowhere to turn because their legislators have abandoned them for corporate bribes. Since the only thing these people understand is profit, probably the only way to stop them will be through boycotts. Demonstrations will probably not be reported, because the media is bought in the same sense that Congress is bought. Therefore, the average person's only recourses will be speaking out with our voices and where we put our money. It's really insulting that these people think that all they have to do is talk about "Jesus" and "terror" and everyone will just roll over and let them do what they want.
Posted by: freethinker2007 | July 14, 2007 6:57 PM
I second Rev. Lynn White's comments and consternation. Dennis Kucinich has brought articles of impeachment to the House. As of last week, he has mustered only 12 -- a measly 12! -- co-sponsors (one of whom, I'm proud to say, is my own Congressman, Sam Farr).
It is time for the press -- mainstream and alternative -- to wake up to the fact that there ARE courageous people in Congress supporting the very things they claim are needed in our government. Unless these heroes get coverage, their work goes largely for naught.
Please, Mr. Moyers, give Rep. Kucinich his due!
Posted by: Dan Shafer | July 14, 2007 6:46 PM
THANK YOU BRUCE FEIN. Finally, someone with conviction, courage, outrage. Impeach Cheney and Bush! Now! Do-nothing Democrats will not get my vote!
Posted by: NG Haiduck | July 14, 2007 6:39 PM
Millions of Americans have been awaiting this show for years, as I wrote here with gratitude shortly before it began last night. Based on the flood of comments now in place -- both on this thread and spilling over onto the poll page and others -- it certainly did provide the validation and hope that I expected.
It's as if we've gathered 'round a campfire (or, more suitably for the season, a huge air-conditioning vent), where at last we can feel welcome and comfort, instead of anger and despair.
Especially moving are the remarks from those who've thought themselves alone -- and from those who hadn't *quite* put it all together yet, but now see and even have joined in taking action.
I second the appeals made by a couple of other viewers for you to dig into the terrifying National Security Directives NSPD 51 and HSPD-20, by which Shrub empowered himself to declare martial law and become permanent dictator in an instant, on any pretext of emergency. He also set himself up last year to use our troops against us on American soil, by wrenching control of the National Guard away from state governors (over their protests). And what about all those new concentration camps Halliburton built, for which there's been no explanation?
Now may our very last chance to save ourselves via impeachment, before some convenient attack, hurricane or epidemic puts paid to the possibility.
Even if there weren't also a realistic chance of martial law and the utter demise of democracy, circumstances are such that our Constitution mandates impeachment for the crimes already committed by this administration. It isn't a choice; it's an obligation.
Posted by: (The Other) Katherine Harris | July 14, 2007 6:26 PM
EXCELLENT PROGRAM! You are to be commended (as usual) for bringing this discussion to the fore.
I do have one word of critique, however. I remain completely baffled as to WHY the vision, hard work, and unique statesmanship of REP. DENNIS KUCINICH continues to remain ~invisible~ on programs such as The Journal. How can you have a program devoted to Impeachment, bemoan the lack of Congressional leadership, and yet fail to even mention Kucinich's Resolution to Impeach??? It's as bad as in 2004, when everyone in the media, including PBS, spoke of Dean as "the Peace Candidate", when Dennis was the only TRUE Peace Candidate, having voted AGAINST the Iraq war, against the Patriot Act, and against everything the Bushites have done to errode our Constitution. He is the ONLY Presidential Candidate who has understood the necessity of our getting out of Iraq -- something he called for in 2004. The only one with a plan for Universal Health Care (CARE, not "coverage"). The only one calling for environmental responsibility that supports the Kyoto Protocols. The only one who would remove the US from NAFTA and the WTO. And on and on. And yet, it's like he doesn't exist. Little wonder our Republic flounders, when the only person with any vision at all can't get a hearing, even from the likes of PBS and The Journal. I suggest any and all of your viewers who want to support Impeachment, check out Dennis Kucinich's website, where you may discover that many of your other concerns ARE, in fact, being addressed. They just aren't worthy of 'media attention'.
I wonder to myself...."How can they NOT know?" -- about the Impeachment Resolution for example. Or if they (Moyers, Lehrer, etc) DO know, why would they choose to ignore the one person who is standing up for what they SAY they want???? It remains beyond my comprehension.
It's like the Congress and Iraq. I knew, as did many of my fellow Citizens, long before invasion that Bush et al were lying through their teeth with every breath, that there were no WMDs, that AlQaeda hated Saddam almost as much as they hated us because he was a "secularist" and not an Islamic radical. Why did not the people supposedly entrusted with the governance of this country not understand AT LEAST as much about the Truth as I, a 'mere citizen', did??? I have in my possession a letter I wrote to every Senator in 2002, before the invasion, ennumerating all the reasons why we should NOT pursue wasr in Iraq and elucidating virtually a prescient picture of things as they are today which could be expected in the aftermath. WHY, I asked/ask myself, can't they see and understand what I see so clearly and understand so thoroughly????????? It remains my quandry. It is true also of the impeachment question.
It is SO obvious! These people are CRIMINALS, every last one of them. They deserve not only to be impeached for the good of the Republic, but to be indicted and imprisoned (a new use for Guantanamo perhaps?) for the good of their own souls -- AND the soul of the Nation.
Bill Moyers, thank you again and again for remaining true to your prophetic calling. How about if all supporters of this important program made a contribution directly to you to support getting a DVD of this program into the hands of every Senator and Representative in the US Congress? Can you tell us how to do that???
Posted by: Rev. Lynne White | July 14, 2007 6:09 PM
YOu censored my previous comment. Shame on Moyers, Nichols, and Fein for not mentioning Dennis Kucinich's impeachment effort. This was a grave disservice to Mr. Kucinich and to your viewers.
Posted by: Drew | July 14, 2007 6:08 PM
Thank you, Bill Moyers for providing us with the insights of John Nichols and Bruce Fein about the necessity for Congress to begin the impeachment process to prevent a Constitutional crisis, not to start one. Bush and Cheney want that crisis and are baiting Congress every day. Nancy Pelosi has to do her job. Elected officials are Americans first, and a bi-partisan effort is called for. We are waiting for statesmen and women to stand up and do the most important job of their lives:preserve the Republic from despots.
Posted by: Jo-Ann | July 14, 2007 6:03 PM
John Nichols was exactly right that impeachment is a solution to a constitutional crisis, which is why the misguided ideologues that voted to impeach Bill Clinton had clear political motivations.
Once he owned up to the little white lie, the "crisis" was over.
The witch-hunt that ensued was payback for Watergate and a blatant attempt to subvert the will of the people and grab power through any means.
Inadvertently, Republicans tainted impeachment, possibly irreparably.
Posted by: Jim R | July 14, 2007 5:56 PM
Bravo, as always, to Mr. Moyers for continuing to be one of the very few voices in mass media journalism who dare to question, examine, think critically, educate, and speak truth to power. (Fred Friendly is smiling down on you for the way you handled the discussion).
Mr. Moyers, you exemplify the essence of responsibilities citizens in a democracy must embrace in order to play a role in ensuring that this political experiment endures.
And a special tip-of-the hat for keeping alive that moment in this past week's Senate hearings when we heard about the "oath to the President" rather than to the Constitution. It was a jewel of a moment.
Additionally, Bruce Fein deserves great admiration and attention for his willingness to place country over political party.
As always, Mr. Nichols remains one of the most insightful and important voices today.
Some day, someone will connect all the dots -- from the 2000 election to now. I was present at the 2000 debacle; saw the ballots while participating in the national media's ballot study; and observed and wrote about the propaganda machine that led to what history will one day understand was a coup d'etat.
At that moment, the mass media fell into a deep pit of cognitive dissonance from which it cannot recover. It parroted the propaganda then, and the parroting has spiraled out of control and led the media onto a Mobius strip dilemma: any return to journalistic integrity would have to be prefaced by an admission of the responsibility the mass media shared in the election debacle, the race to war, and all that has unfolded as a result.
Sadly, this will not happen.
My concern grows every day about the mass media's power to influence the 2008 election. Its coverage, so far, demonstrates that it has not learned the lessons of the past six years.
How can the American people be expected to learn what's been going on when, relatively, so few watch Moyers, C-Span, Olberman, Amy Goodman ...
It is up to those of use who have not been lulled into apathy and who do not base our attitudes and opinion on the filtered soundbites of the mainstream media -- to raise our voices and help spread the word about the information being transmitted by Bill Moyers.
A very big thank you to all the program's underwriters for your courage.
Posted by: Aaron M. Cohen | July 14, 2007 5:38 PM
These days, the US is in a totally dysfunctional state! American citizens have been deliberately lied to and deceived by the current administration (in office illegally), so that the war machinery (what Eisenhower called the military/industrial complex) can make billions on an illegal war for supposed oil profits. Of course, there are none in a country torn by civil war. There are more than $600 billion US taxpayer dollars to kill innocent women and children half a world away, but no money for US citizens who are desperately tying to recover from the utter chaos of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina and the 1-million acre October 2003 southern California Firestorm. No money for social services; no money for health care; no money for the elderly; no money for education. For killing yes; for everything else: no.
When are those in charge going to be held accountable? When are we going to really wake up? Impeachment is the Constitutional remedy.
Further, the separation of church and state has been dramatically erroded as are the checks and balances, supposedly guaranteed by our beleaguered Constitution. If those in charge are not held accountable, the repercussions are staggering for all of us.
Then, we no longer have a country of "we the people..."
This is not the country in which I grew up.
Thank you Bill Moyers, for continuing to report what few others are!
Posted by: Dr. I.S. Perlingieri | July 14, 2007 5:25 PM
Hopefully the Republicans will reconsider having their National Convention 2008 in Florida, instead of St. Paul Minnesota. http://sicko-citystpaul.blogspot.com
Government must be held accountable. Alcee Hastings was Inpeached as a Judge?
Posted by: Sharon Anderson | July 14, 2007 5:24 PM
Bill,
I add my voice to this crowd of viewers who supported your discussion with Bruce Fein and John Nichols. I was metaphorically bowled over by the program. Immediately after it aired last night I sent e-mails to my congressional delegation (Mikulski, Cardin, Gilchrest) and to Nancy Pelosi. (I heard Bruce Fein again today being interviewed on WTOP-FM in Washington.) Thank you for all you do.
Posted by: Bill Riggs | July 14, 2007 5:04 PM
I have some idea about why this otherwise wonderful program left out Kucinich's impeachment bill. I think that even the most thoughtful and considerate journalists and scholars like Moyers, Nichols and Fein absorb the media's own cynicism around candidates like Kucinich or, on the Republican side, Ron Paul who do in fact speak from a place of deep conviction and intellectual scholarship that Fein alluded to. The mainstream media decides for us who our electable candidates are, casting off others as "unelectable" because they are too short or their ears stick out too much, but usually underneath the critique is the idea that the candidate is too idealistic and would never be elected by, what, our unidealistic populace? To give a case in point, in one of the first Republican presidential debates, Ron Paul spoke the unspeakable truth that our policies abroad might have had something to do with 9/11. Not only did the other candidates repudiate him altogether, the pundits covering him said things like "he's out of the race," or "he's really out there." Meanwhile, they were running a poll at the bottom of the screen as to who viewers preferred as their candidate--he won! The pundit didn't know how to explain it and created a ridiculous theory that Paul had rigged it somehow, with a battalion of "voters" standing by to cast votes for him like for American Idol. This is exactly how the media "makes" idealistic, intellectual candidates "unelectable," both by declaring it so and then completely ignoring any facts to the contrary. This has dogged Kucinich since the beginning. He gets made fun of even by the likes of John Stewart and Bill Maher, both of whom are completely in line with his politics. The media has made him so invisible that even Bill Moyers and John Nichols, staunch good-hearted liberals, do not "count" him when they talk about people standing up to Pelosi with all the courage of their convictions. It's very important for people like Moyers to recognize when and where they have been blinded by the media's powerful biases (e.g. it may really be that Kucinich is too strange looking for the media to take him seriously), and to correct for it by placing these folks (including Ron Paul) front and center stage. They need all the help they can get--particularly since they don't come in the tall, dark, moneyed and handsome package that the mainstream media has imposed upon their definition of "electable." We must all do everything we can to correct for this trend and Moyers is a Godsend...but the number of people who've responded with beffudlement about this major oversight in last night's program is a testament to how incredibly powerful media cynicism is. Thank you, gentlemen, for your wonderful work and discussion nonetheless. I will pass it around to everyone I know.
Posted by: Deborah Kory | July 14, 2007 5:04 PM
Bush and Cheney think and act like LAWLESS COWBOYS—over-reaching, making their own rules, even hunting and shooting without a license—and we need to rein them in PRONTO. It is time we demand BALANCE OF POWER action by our representatives! As John and Bruce disclosed, IMPEACHMENT is a provision our founding fathers created for use in times like today. Thanks Bill Moyer for your program. I really hope we can get some action. Most all of my acquaintances are feed up with Washington DC. For a change, it would be nice to have work place lunch conversations about what’s going right with our government; because, it’s been a daily hour of depression for the last several years.
It would be nice to replay this program often. Thanks again!!!
Posted by: Paul Boise, Idaho | July 14, 2007 5:01 PM
I already sent an e-mail but wanted to ask, since I missed the show on impeachment, if there is any way to purchase it in VHS or DVD? Or will it be re-broadcast?
Anyone's help would be appreciated.
This is only the true show that I really respect.
Thanks.
Bob
silversurf@thegrid.net
Posted by: Bob T. | July 14, 2007 4:52 PM
Early in 2003 when GWB & Co. were marketing the invasion of Iraq in the media, I was alarmed and dismayed at the seeming silence from those with the "microphone"(reporters and media journalists) to intelligently inspect and investigate the claims being made and debate them. It seemed a bad idea back then, and it's proven to be the opening of "Pandora's Box" that I and so many others feared would happen. Yes, others with legislative power (Congress)needed to be likewise highly engaged and focused on the potentially grave consequences of force against Iraq in lieu of smoking out radical Saudi sons that attack America. Thank you for focusing on impeachment and bringing it out in a discussion format that citizens can hear and view without all the political noise that drowns out the real ramifications of other-agenda-driven leadership at the cost of American lives, values and so much more. Let's postpone the campaigning and devote air-time to getting our government back on track.
Posted by: s.l. | July 14, 2007 4:51 PM
Mr. Moyers, Thank you for having John Nichols and Bruce Fein, two of the most eloquent spokesman on this issue. Impeachment and removal of President Bush and VP Cheney
I am disappoint of leader of Democrats Senators
President’s Reason turned to Reasons
I believe there was no connection between Iraq “Saddam” with 9/11 at all Every body knew that!
I want to ask Republican and Democrat and white house.
Make me to understand, which one of the subject in below , was Reason :
1- Relation with Bel laden
Now Reason going to be plural!
2- Weapon Mass distraction
3- Saddam is alive and he interfering with his people.
4- Terrorist
5- Algaedeh
6- Democracy
7- Protect America
Now:
8- Human right,
9 - Peace in Iraq and Middle East
10 - Because we love them
11 - May be OIL or occupation
12- Training
13- To interfere: Iran and Syria, Pakistan
14- God chosen Bush for destroy Iraq and kill Iraqis
Thank you
Posted by: Fahimeh Eghtessadi | July 14, 2007 4:41 PM
Thank you and your guests for being courageous and bringing the "i" word into the public discussion. Maybe now we can have that national conversation, which is long overdue.
I always thought we made a mistake in not pursuing impeachment during Iran-contra. Was then vice-president George H.W. Bush really out of the loop? Hard to believe. Some of those same players are now involved in the antics of the current administration. Your guests made a good point–this isn't just about Bush/Cheney, it's about future presidents and what the precedent of inaction now will mean later.
Impeachment hearings will help educate the American people about what has happened and what should not happen, if we are serious about protecting and defending our Constitution. We'll get to hear the pros and cons and get a better sense of who is representing us and how they think. That will be healthy for our democracy. I feel better already! Beginning that process doesn't have to result in a removal from office. Getting information out to the public is a first and important step.
If we are going to continue this experiment called democracy, we need to look honestly at what has happened during this administration and not let the bullies and abusive individuals silence or stop us. They'll try. That's how this administration and its allies have often operated and will continue to do so as long as we let them.
I too will be sharing links to this program with many people I know and will be writing again on the impeachment topic to my Congressman, Rep. Conyers and Pelosi among others
Posted by: Deborah Sumner | July 14, 2007 4:20 PM
Last night's episode is the reason why I
no longer contribute to my local PBS
station. Where is the balance? The highly estimable Mr. Moyers didn't even
have the decency to have
as a quest someone presenting an opposing viewpoint, but instead two
semi whacked out rugbiters parroting
the hard left mantra. This is journalistic integrity? PBS has long been accused of leftist slanting in its
programming, and last night's episode
only solidified that belief. Until PBS
has some counter programming to balance that insufferably sanctimonious Mr. Moyers, my contributions stay in my poxket.
Posted by: Dan Daughty | July 14, 2007 4:10 PM
Wow! What a flood of self congratulations. Too, bad for you all that this impeachment stuff is a joke and a distraction. Listen folks, there is real work to do as the current group of pols we have, both Demos and Repugs, are clearly not up to the job.
These fuzzy headed liberal flights of fancy are merely a distraction in a time of danger. The infighting merely gives our enemies aid and comfort whether they are hiding in Pakistan or in a religious school in England or Patterson NJ. This is a world war against us. We need leadership that will bring the war to them. We need more troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and will probably need to take out the regimes in Iran and Syria as well.
As to various improprieties at home, it’s all been seen and done before. The US has survived several bouts of attempted fascism. This one is the weakest so far. The sky is not falling, though the mindless dissent at home is killing our boys overseas.
Bill, I met you many years ago. You seemed like a thoughtful and honest guy. Your program on impeachment was a joke. You and PBS need to be fair and balanced especially since commercial radio and TV won't be. Let's try and do better next time. Remember contributors folks out there are paying for this stuff.
Posted by: Cincinnatus | July 14, 2007 3:59 PM
The show on Impeachment was a clarion call and yet I see little outrage in the press or other blogs. That shows how low we have sunk. The Civics education of our citizenry coupled with the duplicity of our press (they must be missing half of the fun of being reporters) are leading this nation to the brink of a dictatorship or a theocracy of the right. As we said in Vietnam, same-same.
Posted by: Regis | July 14, 2007 3:54 PM
Thank you Bill for another great show on the subject of Impeachment. But I am really at a loss to understand how you could fail to know (or knowing, fail to acknowledge) House Resolution 333 by Dennis Kucinich calling for the impeachment of Dick Chenney. I hope you will correct the oversight in your next broadcast, and not let "politics" stop you from supporting a politician who is trying to "do the right thing" even without the support of his own democratic party leadership. Regards. Douglas Hughes
Posted by: Douglas Hughes | July 14, 2007 3:43 PM
Thank you to Bill Moyers, your guests and PBS. The online stream quality was excellent!
Several things need to occur in this American mess we are living through. The overwhelming number of abuses by the Executive Branch require the Impeachment and removal of President Bush and VP Cheney. These are not men who learn to do the right thing when confronted. A conflict of interest may exist for Ms Pelosi leading the charge because she stands to benefit from the removal, as Speaker of the House. If the Democrats are to find enough serious Republican members of Congress to approach impeachment, they need to overcome this hurdle. The succession rules should be as follows: with the removal of both Bush and Cheney, the presidential successors should be a moderate Republican and VP successor a moderate Democrat. The replacements would neither be able to run in 2008 or publicly endorse any of the candidates running. Congress should then consider the role an undiversified media has played in the power grab exercised by Bush & Cheney. Laws should be created which force media conglomerates to loosen their grip on media monopoly outlets throughout the US marketplace. We have to be willing to take these actions while our brave men and women are serving overseas. We need this to be completed prior to the 2008 election so any new Administration will be aware of the line drawn in the sand.
Posted by: Mike Murphy | July 14, 2007 3:42 PM
This shameful occupation
must end.
Posted by: Susan | July 14, 2007 3:38 PM
sign the IMpeachment petitions at www.ImpeachBush.org and at www.democrats.com. On September 15, there will be a march on Washington DC to protest the war and call for impeachment resolutions. Mr. Moyers, thank you for opening my eyes and ears.
Posted by: Syvi | July 14, 2007 3:35 PM
I found this conversation to be a breath of fresh air. I was very disappointed there was no mention of Dennis Kucinich. Fein sain we need a congressperson to stand not with party but with the constitution. Kucinich did LITERALLY that very thing, pulling out his pocket constitution at a presidential debate. Any serious impeachment conversation needs mention Dennis Kucinich. Better yet interview him!!!
Posted by: Matt | July 14, 2007 3:33 PM
God Bless America! This is the best piece on honest reporting I have seen. God Bless you Bill and the real Americans on your show.
Frank G.
Posted by: Frank J. Gianattasio | July 14, 2007 3:24 PM
I agreed with everything Nichols and Fein said except one, once the impeachment starts it should finish only with those two treasonus swine behind bars. Not stop if they copitulate they were wrong. And that would be the result of accountability. Not just for the deaths in Iraq, the still free roaming Osama Bin Laden, but for all those young men and women whose injuries will never be whole again, and espeeically those who through manipulation of rules have lost all benefits for their injuries.
Thanks Mr. Moyer, Mr. Nichols and Mr. Fein for opening up this can of worms.
Stella
Posted by: stella watkins | July 14, 2007 3:17 PM
I really appreciated your program and guests last evening. It was nice to have experts explain what Impeachment is and how it works to make our democracy stronger. Please re-air this program. It is important that people have an opportunity to see it.
Each of us needs to send a letter to our representatives and to the Speaker demanding they start the impeachment process of both Vice President Cheney and President Bush. It is important to remind Congress that they are a separate, equal branch of government and it is time to take back the power that constitutionally resides with them as an institution.
This is not a partisan issue, as a matter of fact the Democrats don't seem to know what to do and the media is still asleep at the wheel.
Posted by: Diane Zeck | July 14, 2007 3:14 PM
Thank you once again Bill Moyers for another intelligent discourse on our sorry state of affairs in this country. So sad & troubled that you are not on MSM.
Posted by: Nadine 11 | July 14, 2007 3:14 PM
There existed in the founders of our republic a unique “exceptionalism”. They were exceptional precisely because they new they were not exceptional. This was at the heart of the debates of the Federalists (Hamilton, Madison, Jay) and the Anti-federalist (Patrick Henry) that led to our Constitution and a system of governmental “checks and balances” that limited the “exceptionalism” of any one branch of government.
Sadly, I doubt of many have even ever read the Federalist papers or the Anti-Federalist papers. These papers describe the worries of the framers and anticipate events that are happening before our very eyes today. The constitution was framed to provide these protections. Unfortunately, the last 100 years, has seen the “just powers from the consent of the people” given up as both political parties have acted to usurp or individual liberty for the “good of the governed”.
The failure here is in the executive branch, the legislative branch, the judicial branch, the free press and, I am sorry to say, in “we the people”. Liberty never comes easy.
Posted by: David Stocker | July 14, 2007 3:05 PM
If the Democratic Party had any brains or balls, they would make the show with Bruce Fein and John Nichols the center piece of their next effort to become relevant.
Posted by: larry w zuberbier | July 14, 2007 2:55 PM
Thanks, Bill. The real problem here is the corporate media. They are not interested in the truth, it might interfere with profits. We must over-ride the corporate media and force this issue of protecting our Constitution, and as Mr Nichols said, negating the pillage of the Bushies so it won't be passed on...And since Ms. Pelosi won't do it, she must be pushed aside for someone who will stand up for principle!!
Posted by: keith brewer | July 14, 2007 2:45 PM
The next Republican president will just continue on with the 'endless war.'
Bruce Fein is right -- any one us can be picked up, declared an enemy combatant, and held forever in a 'gulag'.
They said that it couldn't happen here.
It already has!
Begin impeachment now!
~
Posted by: Dickey Fuller | July 14, 2007 2:39 PM
Does anyone know when this show will be available to purchase from PBS?
Posted by: Renee | July 14, 2007 2:34 PM
An outstanding program. The scary part is how future presidents(e.g. Guilini) will continue & expand the illegal activities of Bush/Cheney as presidential "rights"
Posted by: Frank Carr | July 14, 2007 2:09 PM
Great show! Glad to see impeachment making it to TV.
What can people do?
They can email their US Representatives http::/www.house.gov/writerep/
and ask him/her to suppport House Resolution 333--the Kucinich bill calling for the impeachment of Cheney. Better yet--call toll free: 1 800 962-3254.
Contact the House Judiciary Committee and tell them to begin the impeachment investigations now.
Feel free to add Bush to the impeachment agenda; Bush and Cheney are equally guilty of extreme abuses of power.
Write letters to the editor of your hometown paper calling for impeachment.
Hold educational events showing this video or the Center for Congresssional Rights video--How to Impeach a President.
Stand on street corners with signs saying Honk for impeachment--it will feel great for you to hear the support.
Organize--get petitions signed. Go to local political party meetings and ask them to endorse a resolution for impeachment. Go to your state legislature and ask them to pass a resolution calling for impeachment--Congress has to act if they receive a resolution from the state legislature--it is in their rule book.
Visit Afterdowningstreet.org
and ImpeachTV.org
Both are great websites but there are many others.
Vocally refuse to conribute to the spineless Democrats who are more interested in keeping Bush in office so they can run against him in 2008--strange logic but it is true--Not a dime, not a phone call, not a sign in the yard until the Democrats put the Constitution ahead of the 2008 elections. Politicians need to stand for something besides reelection.
Every day, do something!! It can be small--like reading one of the many books on impeachment, it can be large, like demonstrating in front of your Congressman's home office.
Act.
We the people do not have to sit back and accept the destruction of our Constitution and our Democracy. ACT!
I miss the Constitution and I want it back.
Posted by: G Johnson | July 14, 2007 2:07 PM
Many thanks to Bill Moyers for the show with Nichols and Fein. Perhaps people without access to the internet will finally be informed of the criminality of the Bush Cheney gang.
If Nixon had been hanged for Watergate, would the Shrub have been more reluctant to launch a war of aggression? I suspect so.
Let's don't repeat the mistake of 1974. Bush-Cheney and the entire neocon cabal, all the way down to the laptop bombardiers like Bill Kristol, deserve to be prosecuted for war crimes and punished appropriately. Over a million deaths are directly attributable to this gang. They are mass murderers and deserve the punishment. Impeachment, the first step in cleansing America of this putrid and fetid regime, should begin immediately!
Posted by: Don Hull | July 14, 2007 1:57 PM
Dear Mr. Moyers,
First, thank you for the most informative show on impeachment I have seen in any medium except for written and video interviews with Elizabeth Holtzman, who has been ahead of most people on this issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwiSyIbeYjI
Thank you for having John Nichols and Bruce Fein, two of the most eloquent spokesman on this issue.
We would offer two friendly recommendations. First, please don't push your devil's advocate role too far. Ask probing, informed questions, as you do so beautifully. But there is no point in giving any more voice than necessary to ill-informed objections to impeachment. Second, please recognize that there are several true statesmen in the U.S. Congress who were working to address the Bush administration's transgressions long before Bush's poll numbers dropped: John Conyers, Henry Waxman, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, and Russ Feingold. There are others, but these are among the most prominent. We should recognize and thank them.
PBS has at times unfortunately succumbed to the pressure from the right to dumb down its offerings to the American people. Thank you for resisting that pressure. Your program should be rerun repeatedly. Put it on Google video and YouTube. You should also give copies on DVD to every member of Congress.
Posted by: Clark and Barbara Forrest | July 14, 2007 1:53 PM
Dear Mr. Moyers,
First, thank you for the most informative show on impeachment I have seen in any medium except for written and video interviews with Elizabeth Holtzman, who has been ahead of most people on this issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwiSyIbeYjI
Thank you for having John Nichols and Bruce Fein, two of the most eloquent spokesman on this issue.
We would offer two friendly recommendations. First, please don't push your devil's advocate role too far. Ask probing, informed questions, as you do so beautifully. But there is no point in giving any more voice than necessary to ill-informed objections to impeachment. Second, please recognize that there are several true statesmen in the U.S. Congress who were working to address the Bush administration's transgressions long before Bush's poll numbers dropped: John Conyers, Henry Waxman, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, and Russ Feingold. There are others, but these are among the most prominent. We should recognize and thank them.
PBS has at times unfortunately succumbed to the pressure from the right to dumb down its offerings to the American people. Thank you for resisting that pressure. Your program should be rerun repeatedly. Put it on Google video and YouTube. You should also give copies on DVD to every member of Congress.
Posted by: Clark and Barbara Forrest | July 14, 2007 1:53 PM
please re-run this program in prime time-over and over, and make sure that the members of Congress who can act do see it. We will do all we can but this is so powerful-they need to be reminded to take their power bsck.
Posted by: jenne carritt | July 14, 2007 1:26 PM
My appologies, I got out website wrong.
For more information on the Los Angeles Impeachment Center go to...
http://www.bcimpeach.com
Posted by: Jim Bean | July 14, 2007 1:24 PM
I enjoyed your, "Talk of Impeachment" segment in last night's Journal. It gave me some very good talking points to use.
Bruce Fein and John Nichols are absolutely correct in saying that NOT going forward with impeachment would set a dangerous precident for future administrations.
Locally, (Los Angeles), we have opened an Impeachment Center, where local activists can contribute time every Saturday from 2pm-6pm, for phone banking, letter writing, and strategizing, on how to go about getting the impeachment proceedings started.
For details go to;
http://www.bcimpeachment.com
One thing that wasn't mentioned last night is Dennis Kucinich's bill HR333.
Both John Nichols, and Bruce Fein asked, "Where is the leadership?"
Well gentlemen, here it is.
Please don't ignore this effort just because Kucinich is running for President, I'm sure he'd be doing this even if he wasn't. At the opening of our "Impeachment Center" on July 4th, both Maxine Waters and Jackie Goldberg showed up and spoke in support of these efforts. So Kucinich is not alone in this.
So the leadership is here. You just have to look for it. This is not something mainstream Democrats want us doing, so you aren't going to hear about our existence from them.
Posted by: Jim Bean | July 14, 2007 12:50 PM
Thank you Bill! I was glued to the t.v. I challenge everyone to send a donation to PBS to thank them and to continue to air this show..send the link to your friends and Nancy Pelosi & representatives as I did. We have to wake up...read the Constitution, know what John Nichols and Bruce Fein were speaking of...WE THE PEOPLE!
Posted by: Mary Pat Fody | July 14, 2007 12:31 PM
Finally, a reasoned, intelligent and uplifting discussion of IMPEACHMENT.
The most relevant point made was about how this is not about a personal attack upon Bush or Cheney. No, that was the way it was with Clinton because that is what motivates the right. What they fail to understand on that side of the political spectrum is that those of us on the left are deeply concerned with our constitutional form of governance.
We are presented here with a democracy in critical condition. Vital signs are all in the red. What is needed is surgery. Impeachment is the scalpel.
Time to operate.
www.putpeopleoverprofit.org
Posted by: lee | July 14, 2007 12:28 PM
Finally, a reasoned, intelligent and uplifting discussion of IMPEACHMENT.
The most relevant point made was about how this is not about a personal attack upon Bush or Cheney. No, that was the way it was with Clinton because that is what motivates the right. What they fail to understand on that side of the political spectrum is that those of us on the left are deeply concerned with our constitutional form of governance.
We are presented here with a democracy in critical condition. Vital signs are all in the red. What is needed is surgery. Impeachment is the scalpel.
Time to operate.
www.putpeopleoverprofit.org
Posted by: lee | July 14, 2007 12:28 PM
So we wrote to our Senators and included links to your great show.
The outrage has been evident and going on for years, so what can we really do next.
"We the people"
Posted by: jerry rubin | July 14, 2007 12:12 PM
Thank you for your show last night. I am recommending it to everyone who is frustrated with what is happening to our counttry, which is just about anyone I know. The 2 negative comments I read only serve to reinforce my convictions that the extreme right is very, very wrong and totally unable to see that what they seem to advocate is only leading us further away from democracy and hurting the very republic that defends thier right to be so wrong. If it were not so serious, one could almost laugh at their ignorance.
Posted by: Cyndy | July 14, 2007 12:10 PM
Bill Moyers has shown again and again what we have lost in our privately owned media: the deep, thoughtful, truthful, intelligent look at the world a country must have if it is to preserve a free and democratic society. For the most part, the so-called Fourth Estate, the Media (that the Founders counted on) has fallen into the hands of special interests. It, therefore, should be no surprise that the people are becoming dangerously easy to lead astray. Without good knowledge and thoughtful open discussion, democracy has no chance. Bill Moyers is a light in a growing dark. We owe him and public television much.
Robert Stanley
jqcat@comcast.net
Posted by: Robert & Mary Stanley | July 14, 2007 12:03 PM
Thank you, Bill Moyers, John Nichols and Bruce Fein! Bill, please re-air this program often and please continue this very necessary discussion. I would also very much like to see a program on Presidential Directive 51, which bush signed in May 2007, allowing him to declare a state of martial law.
Concerned citizens (and we all need to be VERY concerned), please:
1) Write your elected officials, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid, including a link to Bill’s program and Presidential Directive 51 (below). Demand they take necessary action to preserve our country and our Constitution – this is their job.
2) Write your local newspapers, TV and radio stations, including a link to Bill’s program and Presidential Directive 51. Demand they do their job. Let them know you will drop them and seek out your news elsewhere if they do not provide substantive, honest coverage – and if they don’t, follow through on your promise.
3) Communicate with your family, friends, neighbors, class mates and give them the link or transcript for last night’s program and Presidential Directive 51.
4) Support those elected officials who are in favor of impeachment – write John Conyers, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, etc.
These cannot be one-time actions; they must be done repeatedly to put pressure on for action.
Check out Presidential Directive 51, signed by bush May 10, 2007, giving him power to declare a state of martial law, at which time he will have totally free reign to do anything (some might argue he has already reached that point). With Chertoff’s recently expressed “gut feeling”, and Iran being mentioned more frequently lately, we may soon find ourselves living under martial law, allowing bush to call off the 2008 elections and remain in power. Those in power do not readily give up power, and given the bag of tricks this gang of thugs, thieves and think tanks has used in the 2000 and 2004 elections, and the many atrocities they have committed against our country and our Constitution, and gotten away with, you can be sure they have much bigger stuff in the works. This is a very smart group, diabolical and greedy, but smart, relentless and carefully scheming to continue their grand plan. There is no choice but to impeach NOW – discuss Presidential Directive 51 and its horrendous implications with your elected officials – and demand the media cover it too!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
Posted by: Diane | July 14, 2007 12:03 PM
To Guy Bergeson who wonders why the posts here don't contain well reasoned arguments in favor of impeachment, but instead just gratitude to Mr. Moyers.
That's because the program itself contained the reasons, expressed eloquently and powerfully. Everyone is thanking him for speaking the truth.
You're post suggests Americans stop being divisive and focus on what brings us together.
What if, during the American revolution, they had accepted that advice?
Just something to think about.
Posted by: Matt Tyson | July 14, 2007 12:02 PM
The show on impeachment last night was a graduate seminar on the subject. I agree that we ARE IN a constitutional crisis and it is past time to act. I wish you had addressed the impeachment of the Attorney General as well. We are at a dangerous point; the DoJ and the judiciary are both now filled with individuals who believe they have sworn to protect and defend the President, not the Constitution and the corporate media is owned by Defense Industry or ideologues who support the neo-conservative world view. The corporate media has become an extension of the Whitehouse PR function. There is a real question as to whether the DoJ would actually pursue any case against the Administration. The Democratic majority in congress is still trying to figure out how to function as a majority and seize control of the reigns of power --they are afraid of the Administration, afraid of the minority party and afraid of the media.
When do we finally storm the barricades?
Posted by: Wanda S | July 14, 2007 12:00 PM
Thank you Mr. Moyers for offering legitimacy to the debate over impeachment. I for one would be satisfied with impeaching V.P. Cheney and letting President Bush limp into history.
There is more than amble evidence that this pair has done great harm to the Constitution and to the Nation and deserve all that history will write of them but now - right now the country needs desperately to become a democratic republic again and impeachment is the only real solution.
Posted by: Glenda Turck | July 14, 2007 12:00 PM
I am thankful to live in a state that proudly airs Bill Moyer's Journal. Last night's discussion of impeachment and the blatant disregard of our constitution by Bush and Cheney was powerful. It was so much more than a bunch of talking heads trying to steal a few more moments on the camera. These were men sharing their intelligence and convictions with us and above all their love for our constitution and our nation. The fact that I label these men as brave speaks to the fear and terror which Bush and all those behind him want to spread. We must never forget that we are a nation of laws.
Posted by: Kathy Barger | July 14, 2007 12:00 PM
A previous poster made the statement that this program should be required viewing for each person who purports to represent us. Well, I would like to take it a step further......this program should be required viewing for ANYONE who claims to be an American.
There seems to be so much ignorance about the contents of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that one has to wonder whether schools are teaching basic government any more. Today things are blatently partisan, but your program shows how one can take opposing factions and debate them in a manner which does not end up being a Republican Party vs. Democratic Party debate. By choosing a representative from each end of the political spectrum and having such a balanced and successful conversation which looks at each facet of the problem, you have demonstrated to all how to conduct a conversation to the benefit of the American Public rather than having one side winning and one side losing. Thank you so very much--I just wish this had a bigger audience. Like I said at the beginning of this post--should be required viewing for all.
Posted by: Linda McGlaughlin | July 14, 2007 11:59 AM
How very interesting. I just scrolled through the comments on this blog. I'll admit I didn't read all of them, I just skimmed through them. What is interesting is the lack of well reasoned comments. There are hundreds of posts here. Most of them say “Thank you Mr. Moyer,” and little else. What is more interesting is the tone of the negative comments. I have read all of them. They are all full of vitriolic anger and name calling. How very interesting.
Earlier this week I listened to the last part of Mr. Clintons address at the Harry Truman library. I must admit that I am not and never have been a fan of Mr. Clinton. However, what he had to say made sense. Why are we focusing on the very, very small portion of our lives that are different and not on the things where we’re the same? Why focus on the divisive issues rather than the uniting ones? What is wrong with America that we cannot agree to disagree without being disagreeable?
Anyway, some questions for you all to think about….
Posted by: Guy Bergeson | July 14, 2007 11:48 AM
Thank you Mr. Moyers. Your voice is crucial in this, our constitution's darkest hour. I only wish Speaker Pelosi was sitting at the table with you three gentleman.
It is far past time to show Cheney and Bush the exit door.
Posted by: Michael | July 14, 2007 11:48 AM
This was one of the finest hours every on television. It should be required viewing for EVERY American, perticularly our spineless representatives.
Posted by: Steve | July 14, 2007 11:47 AM
Dennis Kucinich's name has become synonymous with impeaching Bush and Cheney. This is because the only impeachment legislation was filed by him against Cheney as a first step towards impeaching both Bush and Cheney. Officially 13 co-sponsors are listed in the Library of Congress.
The only person it makes sense to interview on the subject of impeachment is the author of the bill, Dennis Kucinich. Please invite him to your show if you want an informed discussion of the topic.
Posted by: Ruth | July 14, 2007 11:43 AM
It was therapeutic to watch the program last night.
My dismay with the state of the nation has grown into near-despair. All standards of justice and morality seem to fail against the arrogant power ensconced in the White House.
The program reminds one that ideas and ideals do have potency.
The American experiment has seemed doomed of late, the egregious affronts to its basic premises going unchecked. The program last night recommends a response that is commensurate with the threat.
Impeachment is the only effective response to our leaders' actions.
Thank you for stating it clearly.
Posted by: Matt Tyson | July 14, 2007 11:41 AM
Thank you! Thank you! Thank You Bill Moyers for having two individuals who forcefully spoke out on the Constitutional importance of moving ahead with impeaching the Bush Administration! They both gave credible evidence that it must be done before we move into the next administration. I wrote to each of my representatives this morning with a link to your program, and sent copies to their aides. Now I hope that we will be begin to see some action.
Your program gave me hope for the first time in 6 years that something could be done!
As to the media....well, we need an investigation there, too. We are not getting all of the news.
I'm also concerned about the power of money and some lobby groups, particularly those that lobby for one interest ~ to the exclusion of hearing both sides of the situation, such as AIPAC, the powerful Israeli lobby. Where are the supporters of Human Rights in congress? Where are the "checks and balances"?
I get most of my news now from the internet. What happens to those that don't have access to the Internet?
Thank you again, Mr. Moyers, for a very enlightening program!
Posted by: Dottie Villesvik | July 14, 2007 11:38 AM
This should be required listening for everyone who purports to represent us in Congress. I hope Nancy Pelosi is listening.
Posted by: Claudia Corum | July 14, 2007 11:35 AM
I was so happy to see this program. They've deserved impeachment for most of their tenure and yet there hasn't been a serious discussion of the subject on national television until now. For those who decry the one-sidedness of the broadcast, I say tonight's show just begins to redress the imbalance of the past six years.
Posted by: Mark Young | July 14, 2007 11:32 AM
Thank you MR. Moyers.
Posted by: ScrewDriver | July 14, 2007 11:28 AM
Thank you. I was waivering on impeachment, but not anymore. These two thinkers really persuaded me that for the sake of the constitution, we must pursue impeachment. Elequont, profound, educational and moving segment. Should be a must for everyone in Congress to shame them into the truth.
Posted by: Stellaa | July 14, 2007 11:17 AM
Bill Moyers....You have outdone yourself! Last nights program on impeachment was the best I've seen on the current fractured nature of the Bush "government."I use quotation marks on this last word to indicate that we really don't have a government. What we have is a cabal of plotters,operating out of the Oval office, and motivated by their lust for power and control, and a complete disregard for the 232 year history of our
constitution. So be it!
Posted by: david batch | July 14, 2007 11:17 AM
I have forwarded the link to your brilliant discussion to a hundred friends. I agree with above posters that this is long past due. Please try to do something about midwest pbs stations that do not carry NOW or Bill Moyers Journal. there are places in the midwest where the only radio is owned by FOX. without your program to wake up the sleeping sheep, they are fed only a daily diet of hate and fearmongering. please try to influence midwest stations to carry your program.
Posted by: Lila York | July 14, 2007 11:12 AM
Why doesn't someone recommend that we impeach them all. Public satisfaction with the job lawmakers are doing has fallen 11 points since May, to 24 percent, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll yesterday. That's lower than for President Bush, who hasn't fared well lately, either. I guess it is Moyers, Fein and Nichols evening of "Bush Bashing". They would never bash Pelosi et el.
Posted by: frank | July 14, 2007 11:11 AM
Thank you, Mr. Moyers for the most electrifying hour of TV this year
Posted by: Bernd Peterson | July 14, 2007 11:03 AM
Bill Moyers program on impeachment was great with the exception of two points not mentioned: 1. Dennis Kucinich has initiated a movement for impeachment and nine other House members have joined. 2. during a presidential meeting with aides in the White House, one of the aides suggested that an action that Mr. Bush was proposing might be unconstitutional and to that suggestion Mr. Bush is reported to have said "The Constitution is nothing but a god-damned piece of paper." This utter disdain if not outright contempt of our Constitution by a person who took an oath to uphold this Constitution is enough reason to impeach and one the average citizen is capable of understanding and hence, get behind and support Mr. Kucinich's bill for impeachment.
Posted by: Dolores Boot | July 14, 2007 10:51 AM
Thank you Bill Moyers and guests for your program tonight. I have been outraged by the blatant disregard of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the rule of law this admistration has demonstrated the past 6 plus years.
Today I will again write to Nancy Pilosi and my representatives and encourage them to support the impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
Posted by: Annette | July 14, 2007 10:45 AM
I believe the Democrats are too scared to impeach. They know how slippery this administration is and if impeachment fails, it will then be the Democrats that will look ineffective going into the '08 election. Pelozi and most Dem's are just trying to wait it out while more and more Republican scandals come to light. While I personally oppose this inaction on the part of Democrats, you have to agree that the "average" American grew dissatisfied with the Iraq war only after tiring of the daily reports about roadside bombs for all these years. Perhaps the correct play is to wait for the "average" American voter to tire of this administration's scandals and the Republican candidates who stand with them rather than risk being "swift boated" by a failed impeachment attempt.
Posted by: Rob Davis | July 14, 2007 10:30 AM
We should have flayed The Great Satan Milhouse and tacked his hide to the Rose Garden tool shed door when we had the chance, so that all future presidents could look out the Oval Office window and be warned not to mess with the will and the rights of the American People!
W and Shotgun Dick are not right-wing, conservative, Republican, Christians … they are royalists and CRIMINALS who make Nixon’s faults pale in comparison.
Posted by: Beverley Herbert | July 14, 2007 10:23 AM
I applaude anybody that airs a program for the betterment of society and hold accountable those that wish to abort our constitutional rights. I think Impeachment should have happened before now and for many obvious reasons. Not only have Bush and Cheney committ acts of treason against you and me and all Americans, they have snubbed the voters on a daily basis. But the most blatant consequences will follow our great nation for many generatons to come. I truely believe that that this war was only a tool to make a further division in the wealth distribution in our society. If one would look at the facts that since 911, Halliburton, Bechtel, Chevron Oil, and others have quadrupled the value of their holdings. It is a war machine to provide great wealth to a few at the expense of the populace. The US has the 13th largest oil reserves and is the number one consumer. It makes sense that we would want more oil for our use, but everybody ignors the fact that there exists many new forms of energy that could not only make our environment healthier and cleaner, but could make energy almost free. It is the oil that makes fortunes, but if free energy sources that were not meterable where available, then oil holdings would have little value. When was the last time anybody heard about a government supported effort to help develop alternative energy sources? Well, you won't because that will not put revenue in the pockets of the wealthy. I say IMPEACH Cheney and Bush and show the world that we still have a real democracy and we will remain a world leader. It's time to secure our borders, stop being the aggressor, and get back to what made this country great .
Posted by: Joe M | July 14, 2007 10:19 AM
Congrats to Mr. Moyers, it isn't just a rummor, brave journalists really are still out there. Wish they were rabbits, and would multiply soooooooon. We need them!!
Wish Mr. Fein's impassioned speech could be sent to Senators Arlen Specter and Patrick Leahy. They need a little fire!!
For my part, I am looking for a readable copy of Bill Moyers Essay: War Debate. I am looking for someone he quoted during the essay. Where do I go?
Thanks, again for a quality program.
Chris Eirschele
Posted by: Chris Eirschele | July 14, 2007 9:51 AM
Thank you for another great program-We need to send Bruce Fein into Congress & turn him loose!
Kudos to Sen. Joseph Biden Jr.-It's great to see someone in congress speaking from the heart and with emotion, not reading a speech on the podium that someone else wrote-I think Sen. Lindsey Graham was trying to rock us to sleep with that side to side motion or maybe he needed to use the little boys room-either way I was getting motion sickness from watching him. Sen. Joe Lieberman-He's a Schmuck! Seems like he is reading a statement written by a "Speechalist" he borrowed from GW. Sen. John McCain-he does not seem to have conviction in his words anymore, he's just "staying his course"-and that's a fact, a fact, a fact-and that's a fact. Kudos to Sen. Barbara Boxer-You go Girl! Another Senator that shows they care-or at least displays emotion-Does Iraq have a 2nd Amendment like the United States has? Theirs must be for the right to bare arms to defend against insurgents and ours is meant to defend ourselves against any Police State situation-applicable to Los Angeles area only (must be a legal resident or US Citizen-Green Cards are not accepted, green represents the environment). Lastly, one more kudos and a thumbs up for Sen. Joseph Biden, Jr.-in regards to his discussion he had with GW & Uncle Dick-I feel he was holding up the wrong finger!
Now onto some paranoid thinking:Maybe six months ago I was listening to KPFK-they were doing a phone interview with some retired Admiral and the topic for the program was Iran and the possibility of the Cheney Administration, Er, I mean the BUSH administration launching a war with the intent to bomb Tehran into a "Regime Change". Hey, if at first you don't succeed mentality. This Admiral stated that when you see a third Carrier Group on it's way, that will be the signal that "it's on". The Enterprise Carrier group is on it's way now possibly to replace and relieve one of the other two carrier groups. Now, add to that the following: The Presidential Directive 51 from May 10th, 2007 that GW signed into law that makes it a lot easier for what I would call a state of Martial law to be declared. http://www.whitehouse.gov.edgesuite.net/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
Now a few days ago, we hear Secretary Chertoff stating that he has a "Gut Feeling" that we may experience another "terrorist attack" here in the US this summer. GW and Uncle Dick have increased the usage of the name Al Quada and the word terrorist in their speeches considerably-one new sourse said GW used Al Queda 30 times the other day. Let us now include covert "Blackwater" operatives employed by our beloved Leaders along with my suspicions that September 11th was an inside job created to jump start the Iraq war- You should have the picture I am drawing by now. If I am wrong, please prescribe me a Fifth of Jack and a bottle of ProzaK-If my suspicions have some merit, What the hell do we do about it?
Posted by: Jeff Findeis | July 14, 2007 9:46 AM
I note that among the posters concerning your program, come the inevitable, vacuous dupes of the right-wing propaganda corps. If their observations were not such clear evidence of their unalloyed ignorance of the rule of law and of their willingness to see the Constitution trampled upon in the name of security in a climate of fear fueled daily by the quasi-fascist rightwingers now in control of the Republican party, then the rest of us could all join in hilarious laughter at their misguided rants.
Posted by: Suasponte | July 14, 2007 9:29 AM
Mr. Moyers,
I viewed online your journal from last night. First of all, thank you. I was reminded about the broadcast while reading a blog this morning (on Daily Kos). The discussion between Messers Fein and Nichols had me cheering out loud! I am moved to action. Although still undergoing chemotherapy, on my good days I will get one of those signs that say ENOUGH and drive downtown to the Capitol Building and walk around. And if or when someone asks me why, I will say it is time to hold them (Cheney and Bush) to account. God Bless America!
Posted by: L V Jones | July 14, 2007 9:28 AM
Thank you, Bill Moyers and PBS, for another outstanding and inspiring broadcast! Your discussion with Bruce Nichols and Bruce Fein on July 13 has persuaded me to contact Congress to push for impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
Posted by: Lynn Anderson | July 14, 2007 9:24 AM
Allow a slightly different emphasis, would you: This program needs to be rerun on EVERY station. This may sound crazy, but some thinking way outside the box may be useful. Clearly, the people need to put CONSTANT pressure on congress to move forward on this. If the people --- who do not have this duty as WHAT THEY ARE PAID FOR, that is, how they secure an income to live from day to day --- are to effectively apply this pressure to congress, they need to be fired up to overcome the inertia of the reality of how politicians act on a day to day, nay moment to moment basis. If the media provided the impetus by widely running this program periodically over the next say five months, the consciousness of a critical mass of the people may be raised and sustained to the point of no return. That is the impeachment proceedings will proceed. Metaphorically, the snowball, or should I say leadball, once given the necessary impulse, will be off and running.
I'm sure there are myriad reasons why the media cannot and/or should not do such a thing. I say this: Most people look at what is and say why bother; Those who see themselves, "leaders" (of all sorts) look at what can be and say we should, shouldn't we?; Visionaries look at what ought to be and ask why not.
Last point: Reading the comments herein ---- i.e. most of them ---- maybe there is justification for believing that Orwell's 1984 can be held at bay.
NOTE: Empire is fundamentally incompatible with democracy.
Posted by: POLpursun | July 14, 2007 9:23 AM
Having read the bloggers comments it amazes me that there are so few critics. Aside for the remarkable omissions on HR 333 by Kucinich to Inpeach Cheney, voter fraud (Sen. Kennedy-D-MA and Sen. Whitehouse-D-RI started an investigation into the use of "caging lists" to entrap legal voters)and the Progressive Democrats that are practicing the called for statemenship that is called for-a few others the stray critics either were few calling for the typical nit-picking to raise doubt & spinning the facts to retell the facts in a light that leads to an illogical conclusion which we have grown accustomed to that has replaced factual analysis. This show was very convincing & logical, but how many people that sheepishly hide behind the Bush-Cheney full frontal assault on the constitution were watching or does logic really work when it is given a chance?
As you pounded on with your questions, these actions By Bush-Cheney are undisputable- the only explanation is is this necessary because of the so-called war on terror and if you think it is how is it working? Further, if the constitution needs to be suspended, why has this not come before congress? They are not particularly willing to stand up to Bush-Cheney anyway, why not dump this on them?
The clearist letter of the "law" that Bush Cheny has broken is the illegal spying on Americans without approval by the FISA that has largely rubber stamped every warrant. Even AG Ashcroft wrote that this was illegal & they did it anyway because they figure with this stacked supreme court and middle still seeing red at the mere mention of 9/11 that this is a good time for a constitutional crisis. Maybe some of these Justices that won't defend the constitution will nedd to be impeached. You see, if Congress would start with passing HR 333 to impeach Cheney next week everything wouold change. The game would shift to CYA- cover your assets & put some bite into the Democrats bark. Are you listening Rahm & Nancy? The progressives are delivering you a winning hand in this high stakes poker game- will you play them of fold?
Let's keep this debate on the front burner. Let's elect only representatives that will put the constitution befor the party & self interest. If you are a Dem. only vote for the progressives who have been right & logical. If you are a conservative or a Republican, hold your party to the same standards of honesty & lawfulness that you defend.
Without the constitution there is no republic, our way of life is over. Doesn't that make Al-Quida the winner?
Robert Malin
Progressive Democrats Of America
www.pdamerica.org
Posted by: Robert Malin | July 14, 2007 9:00 AM
This nation faces a constitutional crisis. Shall the president and the vice president continue to act without oversight, with the claim of "national security" attached to every piece of paper emerging from the executive office. Secrets abound, and the impeial presidency builds and builds, leaving the rest of us in the dark about matters of major conern, not only regarding Iraq and Afghanistan, but civil liberties as well.
I did not participate in WW 2 in order for this country to slide into a dictatorship but that seems to me to be what's happening. Sad day indeed.
Both holders of executive power should be impeached NOW!
Posted by: Robert Allen | July 14, 2007 8:59 AM
As always a great show however, I was somewhat dismayed by the fact that in an hour of talking impeachment neither you nor either of your guests thought it important to mention Dennis Kucinich's HR 333 for the impeachment of Dick Cheney.
I utterly fail to understand why the media continues to marginalize one of the few true Statesmen who actually adheres to the will and best interests of the people in performing his duties in Congress, while promoting the most "self serving" of candidates and declaring them "front runner".
Bill, your show is undoubtedly one of the finest hours on television each week, but I am quite befuddled that Dennis nor HR 333 didn't even garner a mention in last nights broadcast. I for one hope you will take a moment to relate to your viewers the reason(s) behind and obvious snub.
Posted by: Eric | July 14, 2007 8:53 AM
I am in complete agreement with another blogger who wrote: “Bill Moyers is the absolute best in broadcasting.” “…he and his guests -- Democrat and Republican alike; conservative and liberal alike were united and one in their understanding of exactly what we are about, what the genius of Founders knew about tyranny and what is at risk in this country…” When we talk about protecting our country...our national security...what is it that we are protecting if not our civil liberties? We "average Americans" need to behave as citizens and not children of our country. Impeachment hearings are a needed response to the constitutional crisis that we are in....impeachment hearings are not a constitutional crisis. I hope that we move forward with impeachment hearings for both Bush and Cheney.
Posted by: Vickie Malis | July 14, 2007 8:53 AM
Excellent program. We need more like this. The next one should be discussing how the hesitancy of congress's leaders is directly proportional to the load of corporate money, perks and cushy post-congress jobs shoveled their way.
Posted by: mgriffin | July 14, 2007 8:50 AM
We need to do the right thing and get Iraq squared away. But it looks like most of use are not willing to pay the price and the rest of the world has proven they are willing to let America do it all. So we are now loosing with Washington jumping on board to take advantage of America's lose next Fall. Makes me sick to see so few with the guts to do the right thing. They are all in Iraq.
Posted by: Chris Wisehart | July 14, 2007 8:48 AM
I agree with the idea of impeachment of Bush and Cheney, especially because of the idea of deterring future presidents from this style of executive management... My wife believes it's the only way to keep our country from going the way of the Roman Empire and all of its excesses.
Posted by: John | July 14, 2007 8:31 AM
Thanks Bill for a brilliant discussion. King Dick and his patsy George have brought our country to its lowest point since its birth. I've never marched for anything nor written a blog but you've propelled me to get off my buns. Impeach this monarchy!
Posted by: Yvonne | July 14, 2007 8:23 AM
The only reason you could air this shameful program last night is because of the freedom in America, which this administration fights hard to protect. However, it is a high crime for the media, a self-appointed "4th branch" as one called it in the program, to spend tax payers money and mislead people. It is obviously a one-sided and distorted report. There wasn't any "debate" in the program. I am calling my Congressmen to eliminate tax money to go to PBS!
Posted by: Danny | July 14, 2007 8:19 AM
Superb! Impeach, impeach, impeach, and then try as war criminals. I believe this is the only way our country will ever recover any type of standing in the world - showing that we have the "guts" to do to our own what we do to others. No wonder people hate us.
Posted by: Deb Hall | July 14, 2007 8:13 AM
Bill,
Thank you and your guests for expressing what I could not articulate as well. That little piece of paper, The Constitution of the United States of America, is all that stands between totalitarianism and us. It is long past the time that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are called to account for their illegal actions and their attempt to hide what they are doing. The Constitution must be defended. The strategy of “waiting it out” is wrong. Congress must be induced to do its duty.
Posted by: Sheldon Kramer | July 14, 2007 7:10 AM
I commend PBS for its brief moment of courage - in actually honoring our Constitution's First Amendment right to free speech - in airing the program on Impeachment.
And I thank Bill Moyers, not only for coming out of retirement for his new series, but also for producing a program on Impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
PBS and Bill Moyers -you have given all Americans an invaluable gift - a reminder that, as John Nichols said, in this time of frequent and illegal abuses of Presidential power, our country is in a Constitutional crisis. And our genius founding fathers set up a Constitutional cure for this crisis: impeachment.
Congratulations also to the community of impeachment activists around the country and on the internet - each of whom gives gifts to all Americans every day through their tireless activism.
Posted by: diane | July 14, 2007 7:08 AM
I commend PBS for its brief moment of courage - in actually honoring our Constitution's First Amendment right to free speech - in airing the program on Impeachment.
And I thank Bill Moyers, not only for coming out of retirement for his new series, but also for producing a program on Impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
PBS and Bill Moyers -you have given all Americans an invaluable gift - a reminder that, as John Nichols said, in this time of frequent and illegal abuses of Presidential power, our country is in a Constitutional crisis. And our genius founding fathers set up a Constitutional cure for this crisis: impeachment.
Congratulations also to the community of impeachment activists around the country and on the internet - each of whom gives gifts to all Americans every day through their tireless activism.
Posted by: diane | July 14, 2007 7:08 AM
I commend PBS for its brief moment of courage - in actually honoring our Constitution's First Amendment right to free speech - in airing the program on Impeachment.
And I thank Bill Moyers, not only for coming out of retirement for his new series, but also for producing a program on Impeachment of Bush and Cheney.
PBS and Bill Moyers -you have given all Americans an invaluable gift - a reminder that, as John Nichols said, in this time of frequent and illegal abuses of Presidential power, our country is in a Constitutional crisis. And our genius founding fathers set up a Constitutional cure for this crisis: impeachment.
Congratulations also to the community of impeachment activists around the country and on the internet - each of whom gives gifts to all Americans every day through their tireless activism.
Posted by: diane | July 14, 2007 7:07 AM
Mr. Moyers thank you for just saying what needs to be said. For me, the most frightening and dangerious aspect of the events of the past six years has been the complete collapse of the Forth Estate.
This most precious of gifts born of this Great Experiment, failed utterly in it's responsibility to question the motives and methods of Power. The ease and speed with which the the lies and deceit spread and reverberated until the majority of Americans were hypnotized into leaping into an illegal, unjust perpetual war.
Posted by: Darwin Johnson | July 14, 2007 6:06 AM
Have anything to say to Nancy Pelosi? If so, people outside of her district should address Madam Speaker at:
>AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov
Hopefully, orderly impeachment procedings can retrieve a Constitutional republic, preventing our nation from slipping into dictatorship, violent resistance, and many years of chaos.
Posted by: Craig Daniels | July 14, 2007 6:02 AM
I m continuing reading posts here, but I'm astounded to find only a hand full of posts that indicate they have been even concerned about Bush and Cheney's abuse of power before the 2004 election.
And I wondered where the two guests stood. Not to pick on Bruce Fein, but after poking around I found this statement he made:
"Also, in 2004, my concerns about Bush had been awakened, but not sufficiently to vote for Kerry. I had assailed Bush’s claim of power to detain indefinitely illegal combatants on his say-so alone, and his utopian and calamitous policy in post-Saddam Iraq pivoting on the premise that democracy would emerge spontaneously from the Tigris and Euphrates after 4,000 years of dormancy. Bush’s flagrant contempt for the Constitution through the NSA’s warrantless surveillance program and sister spying that has yet to be revealed was unknown in 2004. I would not vote for Bush now, nor Kerry either,..."
http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=237
So, I guess the reason should be impeached isn't because he made clearly unconstitutional claims, like gitmo places prisoners beyond all law, and other abuses of power, but because he crossed some invisible line on acceptable abuse of power.
And even at that, he wouldn't do everything possible to prevent someone who should be impeached from being elected, he would merely cast a symbolic vote to absolve himself.
To his credit, John Nichols quotes Former Minnesota Governor Elmer Andersen, a Republican prior to the 2004 election: "The two 'Say No to Bush' signs in my yard say it all. The present Republican president has led us into an unjustified war -- based on misguided and blatantly false misrepresentations of the threat of weapons of mass destruction. The terror seat was Afghanistan. Iraq had no connection to these acts of terror and was not a serious threat to the United States, as this president claimed, and there was no relation, it's now obvious, to any serious weaponry. Although Saddam Hussein is a frightful tyrant, he posed no threat to the United States when we entered the war. George W. Bush's arrogant actions to jump into Iraq when he had no plan how to get out have alienated the United States from our most trusted allies and weakened us immeasurably around the world... This imperialistic, stubborn adherence to wrongful policies and known untruths by the Cheney-Bush administration -- and that's the accurate order -- has simply become more than I can stand."
See the many other comments from conservative and Republicans he quotes at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/31/opinion/main652488.shtml
Actions have consequences and far too many of all stripes voted for and supported Bush by placing political power and expediency over principle - I say, let the people stew over the liberty they happily gave up to Bush in return for his empty promises. I hope they will remember the lesson in the votes they cast during the remainder of their life. Which I hope is many decades.
Besides, the conservatives are always complaining about liberals bailing out those who screw up rather than making the screw ups live with their mistakes.
Posted by: mulp | July 14, 2007 5:18 AM
I want to say a big 'Thank you' to Bill Moyers, Bruce Fein and John Nichols. Your comments about Bush acting like a king and running the government like a monarchy are hauntingly insightful and accurate. The lies used to initiate the war in Iraq have now cost our country over $400 billion; the final total including indirect costs will be much more than that. There have been more than 3600 deaths and 26000 wounded. Along with the illegal spying, torture, and firing of federal attorneys, Bush has has now pardoned the only person actually convicted for lying about Iraq and rejected congressional subpoenas. This abuse of power must be stopped; IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY NOW.
Posted by: Ross Diamond | July 14, 2007 5:17 AM
Mr. Moyers,
I struggle to find words to adequately express my contempt for your program tonight and for the lunatic comments of your guests regarding a dual impeachment. However, the favorable comments of your followers above, replete with illogic, distortion, and self destructive venom, provide more damning criticisim than I ever could. You are defined by the company you keep and that company is deranged.
Impeachment of both executives during war is beyond the pale. You and your mad guests give no rational consideration to the damage that would do to the country and to vital national interests.
You boldly state that there is a constitutional crisis. There is none. The three branches continue to function as the founders and two hundred years of precedent decree. The remedy for the crisis you think you behold is called an election. If the citizenry moves the Senate, your side will prevail.
Then, in my opinion, the real "crisis" will begin because critics such as yourself and the most liberal of the Democrats will then introduce us to the vacuum that is their body of thought on Middle East policy. Your liberal allies offer nothing in the way of intelligent alternatives in Iraq. Your media allies all but embrace the idea of wholesale genoside in that country. If you camp could just demonstrate the slightest glimering of understanding regarding the long term risks we face, you would deserve attention, but neither you, your guests, the democratic party, current or former democrat presidential aspirants do so.
The combination of smug certainty and absence of meanigful thought on the part of the left eclipses the hubris of the Bush administration. God help us if your ideas prevail.
Posted by: Jeff Pace | July 14, 2007 5:10 AM
I cannot believe you had this whole wonderful program and not mention that Dennis Kucinich already filed Articles of Impeachment in H.Res. 333. How can any coverage of this issue be complete if you don't include people who have already taken heroic action on this matter? Please, please include Dennis Kucinich whenever you discuss issues of Impeachment, Universal Health Care (HR 676 is the Conyers/Kucinich bill), and Iraq (HR 1234, the Kucinich Plan for Iraq).
Great work IS being done, and I expect you, at least, to help bring it to light of day. Thank you for your new show. I hang on your every word, you are so eloquent and passionate, and I look forward to hearing you talk to Kucinich.
Posted by: Lenore Luscher | July 14, 2007 4:56 AM
Every American citizen should have the Constitution nearly memorized...and or a genuine understanding of it. That is the ONLY way anyone is able to recognize WHEN it is being violated. The few complainers on this blog proved that they view our constitution as a partisan thing. Not only do americans know that bushcheny need to be impeached, we also have been watching the christian right try to claim that our constitution means a bunch of things that it doesn't. Mr. Moyers, it was obvious to me long ago that we needed a constitutional scholar to run for pres. so when Obama (who is one) came along, he became my candidate. Barack, if you are reading this, and you should be, Mr. Moyers beat you to the punch. I thought for sure you would have been TOTALLY OUT THERE on the campaign trail explaining the constitution. Why do you think you are setting fundraising records? we the people know you are the constitution upholder. Now get with it.
Posted by: Claudia Tayborn | July 14, 2007 4:52 AM
14 July 2007 It almost makes my fingers fizz as I note that this day is celebrated by the French people and all who admire them as BASTILLE DAY. Louis XVI and his so very Hollywoodish wife, Marie Antoinette, paid with their heads for their abuses (and those of many of their predecessors) of liberty, etc. Intelligent as I like to think I am, I confess I do not fathom how yet another personality perched atop the traditional American flagpole presumes to think that he/they may lie, deceive, profit monumentally from the so-called battle against THE AXIS OF EVIL -- some 3,600 Americans dead, cost of some 40 mil/mo, alienation from countless citizens globally. MON DIEU, even Louis would have been dumbfounded! Right, Bill? They always said that silence speaks volumes, and I will say the obvious: only a handful of obedient Bushies were led to hoot at the choir demanding truth and action. VIVE LES REPUBLIQUES -- American, French and others. Uncle Ben was so right: we stand together or die solo - chilled by indifference seated by our cybertoys and silent in 2007.
Posted by: SERENDIP | July 14, 2007 4:20 AM
I don't know about any one else but PBS Hawaii's "Moyers Journal" video has (censored) not been made available for viewing online. This has not happened before on any other episode. Could it be that PBS Hawaii does not want to stream any content that contains the elements to IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY??? Bill Moyer's should be made aware of this intentional ommision by PBS Hawaii.
Posted by: Jack De Feo | July 14, 2007 4:14 AM
I have spent the last 2 hrs. reading these blogs with an increasingly hopeful heart. Maybe something CAN & WILL be done to publicly denounce the Bush/Cheney administration.
Bush, apparently, is currently concerned about his legacy. At this time, the best legacy he can leave to this country; is to leave office with a charge of Impeachment. The lesson left to future generations about leaders who feel above the law would keep him in the history books for a long, long time.
Mr.Moyers I thank you for a very important show. I only wish those that disagree so strongly will continue to watch. You may not like to hear what is said, but at some time you may realize that it is, unfortunatly for our country, true.
Posted by: Connie | July 14, 2007 4:11 AM
I have spent the last 2 hrs. reading these blogs with an increasingly hopeful heart. Maybe something CAN & WILL be done to publicly denounce the Bush/Cheney administration.
Bush, apparently, is currently concerned about his legacy. At this time, the best legacy he can leave to this country; is to leave office with a charge of Impeachment. The lesson left to future generations about leaders who feel above the law would keep him in the history books for a long, long time.
Mr.Moyers I thank you for a very important show. I only wish those that disagree so strongly will continue to watch. You may not like to hear what is said, but at some time you may realize that it is, unfortunatly for our country, true.
Posted by: Connie | July 14, 2007 4:11 AM
Thank you PBS, Bill Moyers, and the corporate sponsor.
I will write my representatives, President, VP, Senators and Congress and support impeachment.
Share this with a friend... I'm going to send my friends the link to this program.
Bobbie
Posted by: bobbie | July 14, 2007 4:09 AM
Thank you for the July 13, 2007 program with Mr. Fein and Mr. Nichols. I was at once encouraged that there are ways to combat our runaway monarchy in the White House and dismayed that these constitutional remedies are not being pursued by Congress. Tonight I wrote to my Senators and told them I want them to watch this broadcast. I told them how angry I feel about the direction our country is taking. I told them how disappointed I am that Congress has not been looking out for “we the people”. It’s time to shake things up!
In addition to the issues discussed on your program tonight, there are other deeply disturbing acts of “over-reaching”, committed by this administration. There have been many laws and regulations changed without public announcement or press coverage. This is almost surely because the administration has preferred not to call attention to them. With no one kicking up a fuss about the changes, the media has turned a blind eye to them. Although these changes are technically legal for an administration to make, viewed as a whole they represent an obvious assault on what most of us believe to be the mission of a benign government. A “laundry list” of these quiet changes in our laws and government regulations would stun the American public. An analysis of the ongoing effect of some of these changes would prove to be truly disturbing. And to go one step further, an analysis of why the Bush/Cheney administration has made these changes might be the biggest wake up call of all.
Thanks again Bill. You are a real hero. And please be careful. There are blackguards afoot.
Posted by: Lynnette Lewis | July 14, 2007 4:05 AM
Impeachment is the medicine for this Consitutional Crisis. There was a king George once and we got rid of him. There now appears to be another Monarch named George who must learn the same listen so that we may never have to say to our children: "it's ok to lie, it's ok to decieve, it's ok to torture, it's ok to build gulags and secret prison" None of that is ok and we should never become children ourselves, forgeting that we are citizens and that we truely hold the power if we calim to have a Democracy. Impeachment is THE ONLY remedy so that we may save ourselves and our constitution and ensure for the the rest of the decades and centuries to come that no man is above the law and the Constitution must be protected at all costs. No lousy Presidential legacy, especially not such an incompetent imposter as Mr. Bush, is worth smearing and discarding the Constitution.
Posted by: Khaliq Shah | July 14, 2007 4:04 AM
i want to buy ur show i saw 7-13-07 impeachment
Posted by: pete kg thompson | July 14, 2007 4:03 AM
thank bill moyer! you are truely a voice that this nation needs. what disgusts me most about this whole fiasco is that the new congressional leadership is doing nothing but stonewalling the country along with bush and cheney's gang. there is nothing that they have done that shows any leadership in ending the occupations of iraq and afganistan. nor do they seem interested in the least to impeach either bush or cheney.
i have formed a group called bike4peace. we will be taking our 3rd trip across the country by bicycle starting august 1st arriving in d.c. on september 22nd. we start in everett washington. this years ride is the "impeachment tour". we will be carrying petitions for impeachment of dick cheney and delivering the signitures to speaker pelosi's office in d.c. for more info about this event visit: http://bike4peace.org
and contact us.
peace,
ron toppi
Posted by: ron toppi | July 14, 2007 3:57 AM
There are just no words for the sheer glory of what happened across America tonight thanks to the perseverance and fortitude and BRAVERY of a true American hero. Hope deserted me after America retaliated for 911, long before I considered the possibility of our government's complicity in the event itself. I was one of the few who ached for us to pull back and reconsider our position in the world.
The forces which have joined together to destroy the essence of what America means to its citizens and to the world frankly appear too formidable to fight now. Short of a coup d'etat or revolution backed by some benevolent forces beyond our borders, I see no hope. The plotting, funding, planning, the deception and the brainwashing have been so long in the works.
And those of us who had this ideal image of our country now know how everything was lost in Dallas in 1963.
Bill, I fear they will destroy you. But without hope, there is no reason not to fight. So, along with millions of Americans tonight, I say "We have your back" and God, we love you!
Posted by: Deborah Phelan | July 14, 2007 3:47 AM
From: linda@iecommerce.com
Subject: Impeachment
Date: July 14, 2007 12:02:19 AM PDT
To: moyersblog@thirteen.org
Thank you Bill Moyers for speaking with John Nichols and Bruce Fein. They brilliantly communicated that the founders of this nation sought to prevent abuse of power by an imperial president by giving us the constitutionally sanctioned "remedy" of impeachment. The majority of Americans want congress to do their job and employ this remedy now!
Many people don't yet know that some members of congress HAVE been doing their job. I don't understand how these three could have spoken for almost an hour about impeachment without mentioning that HOUSE RESOLUTION 333, ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT AGAINST DICK CHENEY, HAVE ALREADY BEEN INTRODUCED BY DENNIS KUCINICH! HRes. 333 has been waiting for further consideration by the Judiciary Committee since April 25th. Fifteen members of congress have signed Hres. 333 so far, making it easier for others to follow suit. It's a shame that the progress of HRes. 333 isn't the top story on every news program. What could be more gripping than the image of our democracy tipping dangerously toward a precipice? Will congress move to protect the laws and values that have served this nation for over two hundred years, or will they wring their hands and refuse to use their powers against executive bullies?
Week after week, subpoenas going out from congressional committees have been blatantly ignored. The Bush Administration has flatly refused to cooperate with congressional investigations, and congress has shamefully let them get away with it. With every day that congress refuses to impeach, the administration grows bolder, flouting the law with impunity. Subpoenas from an impeachment investigation cannot be ignored, and it's high time they were dealt out generously. The absolute disdain for rule of law in the executive office needs to be met with the absolute power of the constitution, or congress and the constitution will be rendered irrelevant.
When congress renounces its own powers, it denies the powers granted by the US Constitution to the people. The cowardice and dithering of congress constitutes a grave dereliction of duty that will cost them dearly at the polls. We need members of congress to honor their oaths to support and defend the constitution now. We need strong leaders to lobby their colleagues and rally support for exercising the constitution remedy of impeachment. The majority of congress has failed to make a sober and concerted effort to call this administration into account. In fact, they have worked hard to silence the voices of the American people who clamor for redress. Nancy Pelosi and others have denied Americans their right to successfully petition for a return to the rule of law, and to exercise their rights as citizens. That's dereliction of duty. At this point, I don't think it's a dishonor that can be outlived. Imagine, presiding over the destruction of democracy!
John Nichols said that members of congress have to say "I cherish my country more than my party." I feel that our constitution is our strength, and our Bill of Rights an example to the whole world. Our system of government has never fully achieved the vision held in the Bill of Rights, but it is a vision worth fighting for. We are a people who have held on to the values of truth, justice and liberty, even when our government has failed to do the same. If we lose this vision now, the whole world will be worse for its loss. We need a fighting congress now, to fight for the laws and values that have the power to unite this country. Impeachment is the tool we can use immediatley, to call this government into account in a peaceful, legal and orderly process.
Let's get on with it.
Linda Boyd
Director, Washington For Impeachment
Posted by: Linda Boyd | July 14, 2007 3:47 AM
Brilliant journalism, Bill! This should be required viewing for all members of Congress, every political science student in the country, and anyone with even a passing interest in the lessons of history.
As a Canadian who shares the profound concerns of so many around the world who observe the disturbing and clearly illegal behaviour of the current administration, I can only say: Get your heads out of the sand, America, if you hope to restore the respect of those who care about you and the role you could still play in making the world a better place. And when you start again to breathe the fresh air, it will become immediately obvious to you that no president and vice-president in your history have been more deserving of impeachment than Bush and Cheney. In so doing, you might once again take your rightful place among the company of civilized nations and honour the wishes of your founding fathers.
And while you're at it, think about another way of doing politics, one that does not rely upon the polarizing and inevitably stifling effects of a two-party system. Listen to what people like Ralph Nader have been saying for decades and realize that you need not be beholden to special interests and corporate money. This is indeed a lot to ask, I realize, but it may be the only way out of the political abyss you've created for yourselves. Is it any wonder there is so little trust of those you seem content to elect to "lead" you?
Wayne Saray
Montreal, Quebec
Posted by: Wayne Saray | July 14, 2007 3:37 AM
Mr. Moyers, I am moved to tears by your integrety and the elegance---yes, elegance---of of your honesty in examining the most pressing issues of our times. My heartfelt thanks to you and to tonight's guests.
I had recently drafted the following letter to the editor of my local newspaper. After your riveting program on the need to impeach both Bush and Cheney, I simply added Mr. Nichols' wonderful point that impeachment is the REMEDY for the crisis we now face.
Editor, The Bellingham (WA) Herald:
The Herald recently asked Voices columnists Should the United States close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba?
Did you ever think, in your wildest imagination, that such a sickening question could be asked about our country rather than a ruthless dictatorship?
How many laws and treaties have been broken by Bush and Cheney to bring us so low? It's deeply offensive that our hard-won democracy has been soiled and cast aside in service to their arrogant ambitions. They and their oily advisors (including the one just pardoned) have brought nothing but shame to our great nation.
They deserve our contempt for creating this crisis but the shame will become ours if we fail to remove them from office immediately, before they perpetrate any further damage or disgrace. Impeachment does not create a constitutional crisis; impeachment by Congress (not Judicial branch intervention) was placed in the Constitution as the only true remedy. I call on Congress to shoulder their sworn duty now.
As for the few who still stubbornly support this Administration, it's long past time for a decision: either you stand with Bush/Cheney---or you stand with the Constitution and the American people.
Posted by: Ann E. Wales | July 14, 2007 3:34 AM
Thank you so much Mr. Moyers, Mr. Fein and Mr. Nichols for the passionate discussion on this evening's broadcast. I hope it will be rebroadcast in the future so I can alert family and friends. I am now firmly convinced that we need to impeach Bush and Cheney and, to that end, we all are obligated to express our desires to our Congressional representatives. We are in danger of losing our country, not only to terrorists, but to an administration that believes itself to be above the law and unaccountable to the people they serve. Especially in times of national danger, we deserve to know what and why actions are being taken. Personally, tonight's discussion was a call to action. Thank you again for saying what all Americans need to hear.
Posted by: Barbara Neal | July 14, 2007 3:32 AM
The grounds for impeachment of Bush/Cheney are numerous including actions that are immoral, illegal, incompetent, and unconstitutional. If we Americans do not exercise our right of impeachment, we allow a precedent to be set for all future administrations.
Early in 2006 I wrote a Declaration of Wrongful Representation because I felt that if I remained silent I was complicit in the abhorrent actions of the Bush administration. I hold not only President Bush responsible for mass death and destruction and loss of our constitutional rights, but Senators and Congressmen as well because of their inaction.
Calling for impeachment, I have written letters, signed petitions, sent emails and together with my friends, demonstrated daily for weeks in our city. I think that our representatives are refusing to heed the call for impeachment because they are too fearful and too concerned with political expediency and their own careers.
Bill Moyer, your interview with Bruce Fein and John Nichols was so exciting to me. I immediately thought of sending transcripts to my Senators and Congressman. I hope Americans will demand impeachment. Thank you.
Posted by: Genaveve Starr | July 14, 2007 3:29 AM
Thank you, Mr. Moyers and PBS, for this informative, and hopefully provacative program. In this era of corporate overseeing of the public airways, and of corporate ownership of Congress, it is refreshing and hope-filling to hear again of "checks and balances". Mr. Cheney and the Puppet King must be held accountable for their actions. Secrecy is the way of a dictatorship, not a democracy.
For those who are more Capitalist leaning I ask this: if a corporation was run this way, with all the the waste and the graft and the mis-management, would this be a corporation you would have trust in?
And, in the end, isn't that what this debate is about? Is their any faith for any posititive outcome from this administration's callous disrespect for the rights of Americans or for the total disregard of the beliefs of others and the full belief in their own righteousness?
We, the people, must decide if we should stand up to terror by shining the light of freedom, or to cast the shadows of fear and terror and become them.
Posted by: JBStiglitz | July 14, 2007 3:10 AM
THANK YOU for this illuminating program! PBS and Mr. Moyers, it may be the single, most important broadcast you have ever made for the future of this country! After viewing this incredible conversation between Mr. Moyers, Mr. Fein, and Mr. Nichols, I wrote the following e-mail to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. I am sending a copy of it to my U.S. Representative, members of the House Judiciary Committee, and as many people as I know, urging them to speak out to their representatives about this. I am also e-mailing this letter to as many members of the broadcast media as I can, urging them to start covering this story, invite these speakers on as guests, get this story out!
Dear Madame Speaker Pelosi,
It is with fear and trembling--and great amazement at this fear and trembling--that for the first time in my life, I, a loyal, native-born United States citizen, write this e-mail with the fear that my own government could possibly be spying on me and could possibly take some retaliation against me for using the word "impeachment" and for voicing my opinion in this e-mail to you. I frankly almost did not have the courage to write this e-mail to you because of that fear. That is where this President and Vice-President, with their arrogance and many abuses of power and office, have put our country, our revered Constitution, our republic of freedom, and every one of the American People, including you.
It is up to you and every member of the U.S. House of Representatives to do the following, please, ASAP:
1)Please find a way to see the July 13, 2007 broadcast of Bill Moyers' Journal: Tough Talk About Impeachment. (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html) This is an hour-long conversation between Mr. Moyers, Constitutional lawyer and scholar Bruce Fein, and John Nichols of The Nation (and author of The Genius of Impeachment) about impeachment and the current state of our government. If ever there was one, hour-long conversation that was more crucial to the future of our country and the preservation of our Constitution, this conversation is it. YOU MUST WATCH THIS BROADCAST. If I had the money, I would send a copy of the DVD of this program to every member of the House. You can watch the broadcast from the Website. Please instruct every member of the House to watch this broadcast. The full transcript of the program will also soon be available on the Website.
2)Please stand up for the American people and our Constitution and have the courage to ACT NOW upon what Mr. Fein and Mr. Nichols so cogently and eloquently articulate is critical to make this a nation under the rule of law again because under this administration, it is not. Please put impeachment of the President and the Vice President on the agenda. Please become a U.S. Congress of statesmanship, move beyond partisanship, and move beyond fear of consequences for your own political careers and/or the next election. The polls are now showing that this is what We the People want our representatives to do.
Mr. Fein's and Mr. Nichols' hour-long conversation with Bill Moyers will clarify so urgently why the U.S. House of Representatives must act NOW to preserve the future of our nation, our Constitution, and the American People.
Thank you.
Posted by: Jo-Ski | July 14, 2007 3:06 AM
I have been posting this comment repeatedly in the NOW P&E forum, but I will repeat it again.
The people reelected Bush into office knowing in 2004 knowing everything we know today.
The half the people who voted for Bush effectively said, "Take my liberty, I have too much, and I want to give my liberty for the promise of safety, even as you promise you can't keep me safe."
The half the people who voted for Bush said, "we want you to create the conditions for US personal torturing and humiliating Arabs, and then ensuring that the US is shown repeatedly to be barbarians, and to ensure that the Arabs are so angry they will die to kill Americans."
The half the voters who voted for Bush said, "we don't like the truth, so please, please lie to us, deceive us, keep secrets from us, betray us, because we like your folksy style."
The debate in 2004 was marked by being devoid of any self proclaimed conservative, whether social conservative or Goldwater conservative, speaking out on the well known abuse of power that Bush and Cheney had already demonstrated.
And even more astounding, the conservatives and even moderate Republicans did not have the capacity to think ahead four years, or ten years or two years, and realize that soon a Democratic president would have those very powers that they were giving to President Bush. For the Republicans who stridently complain about Hillary abusing power in 1993, their failure to imagine President Hillary having the power they were giving to, not Bush, but the presidency.
I oppose impeachment for two reasons. First, impeachment will of necessity need to point out to the voters that they voted for the president for the very reasons he is being impeached. These voters will over time become very angry at the Democrats for making them face their errors, and few people are able to accept such harsh criticism without blaming the messenger.
Second, the people need to face up to the fact that their actions have consequences. Or, what goes around comes around.
Posted by: mulp | July 14, 2007 3:00 AM
Tonight's program felt like awakening after a very long sleep. I felt inspired and illuminated and shaken to my core. Recounting the program to my partner, I had chills. This exceptional discussion by three of the sanest, clearest and most honest voices I have ever heard seemed to crystallize my own priorities as nothing else has for the past decade. I understand far better what is important to me as an American and that it is ultimately my responsibility, along with all who comprise, "We the People," to remember and truly fight for the thing that makes it possible: The Constitution.
Since 7/2, I have written and called my Senators and Congressman every weekday, calling upon them to impeach Bush, Cheney AND Gonzales. It is precisely for the reasons I heard tonight. We need our laws. We need our democracy. We need to protect the Constitution.
If we are to be a democracy, we can not allow the Executive to have imperial power. It is time for remedies, not because of politics, but because we need, urgently, the strength of Constitutional wisdom, or we are lost.
More than ever, I am not willing to give up my country without a fight. Thank you, Bill Moyers, for returning to your own post. More than ever, we need you.
Posted by: Paul Rosenberg | July 14, 2007 2:52 AM
Outstanding program tonight. Definitely sets the standard for what we want and need from the media. Agree that a copy of this program should go to every member of Congress and that the program should be repeated as often as possible so more people can see it. And I will definitely be writing to my representatives and House Speaker Pelosi about it. Also agree that the omission of Dennis Kucinich's bill is worrisome. WHY was that not included in such an otherwise excellent program?
Posted by: Nova | July 14, 2007 2:51 AM
What a joy to have Bill Moyers back on PBS with programming for thinking people.
The program tonight with Nichols and Fein was an absolutely superb example of what public broadcasting SHOULD be, but rarely is.
Thanks, Bill. Keep up the fine work!
Posted by: Armin Wright | July 14, 2007 2:49 AM
Oh my god, thank you so much for this program. I've never watched this show before, but now I'm going to go back and watch it online. I was so moved and motivated by the astoundingly coherent and intelligent discussion tonight. After spending the last few weeks reading the new york times, the chicago tribue, and watching cnn and msnbc I thought that calm, open discourse was dead in this country. Public programing has once again given me hope, informed me, and profoundly altered and deepened my views.
I've never been very political. It didn't make much sense to me to pay any attention because I knew the media was biased, politicians didn't represent my interests, and lobbyists for special corporate interests were really running the show. But the absurdities of war have turned that all around for me. I realized that the people in this nation have given up all their power and I want to help start reclaiming it.
Over the past few months I've been consuming increasing amounts of internet news and information about the presidential elections, Bush and Cheney's past and present follies, and the history of post WWII war in this country, all to the chagrin of my equally a-political wife. But this program really galvanized her in a way I couldn't have. Thanks for that, for opening hearts and minds. I can't say that enough.
I also want to echo something that was said on the program: the number one thing that bothers me about the media is that it is written and marketed to dumbies. I've read Kant and Heidegger, damn it! Give me some respect. It is very dangerous for any group to view itself as an "elite" and the rest of humanity as "masses". If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that no one is truly dumb. We all do dumb things, and we all hide in the safety of ignorance sometimes, but survival isn't easy and requires a lot of calculation and drive. If we the people start seeing political power as a necessity for our survival, watch out, because you'll see the political discouse raised to a level we've never dreamed was possible. And it's issues like the war, healthcare, and global climate change that can do and are doing just that.
A final plug: Go to the website IMPEACH FOR PEACE where you can actually begin the impreachment process yourself against Bush and Cheney. Do it before July 23rd and add your name to the hundreds of thousands ready to put this nation back on the constitutional track.
Gratefully yours,
Caleb J. Friz
Posted by: Caleb Friz | July 14, 2007 2:34 AM
I wrote to both Pelosi and Boxer after watching the show tonight on KQED.
I urge you to review the Moyes "Now" program of July 13, 2007 with Bruce Fein and Jim Nichols. Before watching it tonight I disagreed with impeachment because I felt it would take too much energy and time away from other important matters of law. I am now convinced that there is no matter more crucial to our country now and in the future than stopping the rampant imperial flouting of our constitutional system of checks and balances by Bush/Cheney. Please take an hour to view this program. It will, I believe convince you, too, to take action now. I no longer believe that impeachment is off the table. Impeachment IS the table.
Posted by: Helen Shane | July 14, 2007 2:30 AM
When my husband and I went to Wash. DC in Jan.07 to protest the war in IRAQ, along with a half million other Americans, Canadians & Europeans, I had the honor of meeting and hearing John Nichols talk about "the genius of Impeachment."
I finally got it and began to wake up and get angry not only at myself, but also at my representatives for not exercising our own responsibilities as citizens! As John said tonight, it is about choosing not to be a child and letting Bush/Cheney/government decide for us what is right and wrong. It is about being willing to be an adult and live into our citizenship and demanding our leaders honor their own oath swearing to protect and defend our Constitution, the very foundation of our country.
I think we have terribly confused this whole subject by thinking that Impeachment was just "another issue," as we added it to a long list of other important issues. It's a huge mistake to think of it as another worrisome issue. Impeachment goes far beyond that and is in a category all by itself because it is the very foundation and the heart of the Consitution itself. Impeachment is the part that the Founding Fathers labored long and hard over to always make sure there was a mechanism that the power to run this country ultimately and always resided with the people. WE have forgotten that. We all must remember it now. It is the very foundation of our country.
May God infuse some backbone and true statesmanship back into those we put into Congress in the first place. Please help them get beyond their political strategizing and precious party lines, and have the courage to be leaders -- all of them. If they would only be willing to exercise that courage, the path would be so clear! Impeach and honor the Consitution, the presidency and most of all, the people.
Posted by: Libby Carr | July 14, 2007 2:29 AM
I have a new political mantra: "Impeachment is the cure for a Constitutional crisis. Don't mistake the cure for the disease."
Messrs. Fein and Nichols made abundantly clear the connection I've somehow missed for the last four years: It isn't simply that the Wregime have mismanaged a war of their own design, but that they have done so with such utter contempt for the laws of our land that those laws are now threatened, as is our democracy. As Mr. Nichols (I believe) said, no one gives back the tools.
Thank you, Mr. Moyers, and PBS, for refusing to let real journalism die. You do indeed, as you said, provide a public service.
Posted by: Oedi | July 14, 2007 2:18 AM
I was left wondering what to do, as a citizen of a small college town in California, far from Washington. How can we galvanize the press? Surely reporters are freer agents than politicians. And somewhere I have to hope there lurks a Sam Irwin who will teach us through action what the Constitution means.
Posted by: Carol N. Meredith | July 14, 2007 2:15 AM
I wrote this email to Pelosi tonight after seeing the show. I hope she's listening. We need people to take action.
Dear Ms. Pelosi,
You have a Constitutional duty to start impeachment proceedings against Bush AND Cheney. I just watched Bill Moyer's Journal on PBS. He had John Nichols, author of "The Genius of Impeachment" and Bruce Fine (N & F) on the show for 50 minutes explaining why Bush & Cheney (B & C) have committed high crimes and misdemeanors, while YOU specifically have refused to bring impeachment proceedings against them. Nichols states flatly that you are wrong when you say we shouldn't impeach. If so, you and the Congress have NO courage. You are trembling while B & C run roughshod over Congress, knowing that no one will stop them. Nichols point out that the mere fact of acting like a king was spelled out in the Constitution as an impeachable offense. I hear right now that Bush is invoking executive privilege on info about Pat Tillman. There is no end to his open defiance and power grabbing. You are letting it happen. Perhaps that's why a poll out today gives Congress a 24% approval rating. Yet 54% of Americans believe we should impeach Cheney and 45% believe we should impeach Bush. How can you be so blind and so timid? Where is the outrage not only from you, but other House members? YOU were elected Speaker for a reason. TO LEAD. And to carry out the wishes of WE THE PEOPLE. YOU'VE FAILED, unless you do something courageous like starting impeachment. You're in charge. As Nichols states, Impeachment is the remedy for the disease, which is the CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS created by B & C. The time is now. As N & F point out, you can't let B & C's blatant usurpation of power to go unchecked. As N & F state, nobody in Congress understands their responsibilities under the Constitution. If you are ignorant of the Constitution and your duties under it, I suggest you sit down and read it NOW. If you do nothing else, at least watch Bill Moyer's program from tonight and give it to all the Judiciary members. It appears you and the rest of Congress are willing to be called "invertebrates" or supine as Fine describes you tonight. Get some GUTS for God's sake. YOU are the majority, not the minority party.
Until tonight, I was one of those people who, due to a lack of knowledge about impeachment as laid out in the Constitution, thought that B & C had not committed any high crimes and misdemeanors. Now N & F have enlightened me. I suggest you get enlightened yourself and that you enlighten your colleagues. If you are just too weak and not up to the task, then at least resign as Speaker so that you can allow someone else with more courage and wisdom to carry the torch for impeachment. N & F made it apparent tonight that Impeachment must happen before B & C leave office.
Please don't get me wrong. I support nothing that Bush does. B & C have solidly established themselves as the worst President and VP in history. We don't need history to tell us that. There is a greater issue here. It is the upholding of the Constitution. B & C flaunt it in the face of Congress. So far, Congress acts like B & C's lap dog. That is no way to run Congress. WE THE PEOPLE elected a Democratic Congress to ACT, not to lie down and surrender at every opportunity. It's time to make history. Ask yourself. Am I up to the task? Will I go down in history as not only the 1st woman Speaker, but also the one who led the charge to recapture Congress's duties to check and balance the Executive Branch? Or will you go down in history as the Speaker who had the chance to stop King George, just like our Founding Fathers, yet failed? I hope you will heed the call of WE THE PEOPLE. Thank you.
Posted by: Robert Bubnovich | July 14, 2007 2:13 AM
Thanks to you Bill Moyers and your guests. It was great to hear your lively discussion of impeachment. Lets impeach these crooks! Then indict!
I hope that you will someday, before our flagging democracy is eventually destroyed, look deeply at the many unanswered questions of 9/11, the justification for the "War on Terror", and demand a new, impartial, and empowered investigation. I'm no apologist for terrorists, but you and your guests still talk as if Al Qaeda alone perpetrated the horrific attacks, yet there is no evidence that they did so. The FBI does not list ObL on the 10 most wanted list for 9/11, due to a lack of evidence. And what happened to World Trade Center Building 7. It was a 47 story steel framed building about 100 yards from the Twin Towers. It fell completely at sometime after 5:00 p.m. on 9/11 in 6.5 seconds! It was not hit by a plane, nor was it hit by the collapsing twin towers, nor was it consumed by fire (as if fire alone could completely collapse a steel framed building). Yet this collapse was not even mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report! And why weren't the hijacked planes intercepted? They flew in the most heavily defended airspace in the world for 1.5 hours or so!!
Come on journalists, go a little farther, look a little deeper. Don't let the Power of the Myth of American exceptionalism and goodness prevent you from a fair reading of all the evidence, not just the cherry picked evidence presented by the 9/11 Commission {headed by Bush insider Philip Zelikow, who directed what to research, and what to present to the commissioners for presentation}. Our democracy depends on your unflinching journalism.
Posted by: GHenricks | July 14, 2007 2:13 AM
Thank you. Please, rerun this program over and over.
Posted by: edie rodman | July 14, 2007 2:11 AM
I am left with this thought after tonight's program and the comment that endless war can undermine our democracy: While they are different in purpose and methodology the "War on Terror", the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Poverty" may have this in common: They didn't work and they never ended.
Posted by: Jeanne Large | July 14, 2007 2:09 AM
Once again, thank you PBS and Bill Moyers for bringing the pertinent problems to the attention of the American public.
I couldn't agree more with both these gentlemen. I would also remove Nancy Pelosi from her office if she can't get it together to confront the House on this matter and get the ball rollingon impeaching both Bush and Cheney. Time is limited and we must move quickly to take back the power we have as American citizens and remove from power President Bush and Vice-President Cheney. They have forgotten whom they serve and what the Constitution says about their offices and the limits of their powers.
The sooner the better, and we have so little time to accomplish this task.
Posted by: Joyce | July 14, 2007 2:08 AM
After the disgraceful theft of the 2000 election with the concurrence of a 5-4 Supreme court decision that was widely derided by Constitutional scholars for it's upending of the Fla Supreme Ct order, Bush and Cheney knew they would be held accountable for their negligence in not protecting America on 9/11. Couple this with a country more interested in American Idol than their constitutional rights, a republican party crazed for power and weakkneeded Democrats who fell for the Bush Cheney constitutional abuses leading to the lie that is Iraq, and you have the perfect storm for the high crimes and misdemeanors of the reactionary uber conservatives of the republican party. Even now Democrats are reluctant to cut off funding for the lie that is the Iraq War and even more reluctant to do their constitutional duty by convening a Judiciary Committee hearing to formulate Articles of Impeachment. They're scared and there isn't a backbone among them. A 24 hr news cycle and reactionary talk radio has the Democrats cowering.......but the BushCheney abuses of our govermnet are so serious and so widespread that we the people must continue to pressure our representatives to stand up for the US COnstitution and bring the dogs that are Bush and Cheney to heel.....VoteToImpeach.org
Posted by: NoMoreBushLies | July 14, 2007 2:06 AM
Firstly, I would like to thank Mr. Bill Moyers for the excellent show tonight. It was an eye-opener (for those who had their eyes shut), eloquent, and informative. Furthermore, it is encouraging seeing all the blog entries. I now know that there are others who are outraged by this predicament.
That being said, I would like to offer my two-cents to the discussion. The talk of perpetual war was frightening, but even more so was the last words of the Bruce Fein, when he said that the government is treating its citizens like children, and the people are accepting the role of children. What I immediately thought about when I heard these words was Aldous Huxley and his book Brave New World. A totalitarian world in which the people simply don’t care that they have lost their civil freedoms. They don’t care because they were being pampered by their government, and besides that, they were also to preoccupied with simple joys like, pop-culture, drugs, etc.
What Bush/Cheney have committed is shameful, but it is also fulfilling Aldous Huxley’s prediction, which is: What happened to monarchal kingdoms (such as Britain), the reversed effect will happen to democratic societies. In Britain the King and Queen no longer hold political power, they are only figureheads, and so Huxley predicted that the democratic societies (Such as U.S.A) would become totalitarian, while things such as elections and constitutions would become mere figureheads.
The rest may seem a little “Conspiracy Theory;” Bush has picked up from where others have left off. Just think about the income tax. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, it was never passed formally through congress!!! And now, Bush and his goons have the Patriot Act, in which they could neglect any rights as long as they suspect that you’re a terrorist (sounds kind of like McCarthyism). Question is: Why hasn’t anyone done anything about this? (Maybe everyone is lost in their own forms of Soma)
Impeachment is a way to start; however, other things must be done to ensure freedom, and instate the old American ideals, such as freedom. Certain problems must be addressed; for example, how can we, as a whole, make sure another Bush doesn’t come around? Why hasn’t the media covered anything worth mentioning? Also, we should pay attention to the Companies, and their lobbyists because when it comes down to it, it is they who have the most political influence.
Honestly, talking to my peers and associates, I feel as if the ideals which the founding fathers fought for, have disappeared, and no one is up to doing anything about it… The sixties are over, that was our last chance. Now everyone is to preoccupied with their financial lives to really give a damn about their human lives. They are more worried about debts than freedom, but when they realize that debts are oppression…
food for thought: Your civil rights are disposed of when you are under private property.
Posted by: A voice crying in the Wilderness | July 14, 2007 2:06 AM
Thank you for such a powerful program. I too, believe there are a number of people in this administration who should be tried for treason...and War Crimes.
I'm sick to death of sending our young people over there to "defend us from terrorism" and in the next breath hearing of the creative ways to disqualify them for ongoing medical treatment through the Vetrans Administration. Shame, shame, shame.
The threat of terrorism overseas is not nearly as severe as the terrorism in our own government.
Posted by: Theresa | July 14, 2007 2:05 AM
The clarity and passion of the conversation with Fein and Nichols was inspiring. I was thrilled to hear a discussion of such depth about the "constitutional crisis" we are now facing. The image of America around the world has plummeted in recent years, and if Americans and our legislators were to finally step in and demand accountability from the office of the presidency, this would show the strength of our political system at work.
Restoring balance and integrity in the system of government is most important, but restoring our relations internationally is also important to me.
Posted by: A Zenger | July 14, 2007 2:05 AM
Thank-you Bill for your excellent broadcast tonight. It's too bad no one mentioned HR 333 with 15 supporters introduced by Dennis Kucinich. Dennis is also a candidate for President. It would be great for you to have him on your show as soon as possible.
Posted by: valerie | July 14, 2007 2:00 AM