Bill Moyers Journal: Bill Moyers Asks: What is the Meaning of the Nooses?

re: jena revisionism well, it seems that wilson is from "lala land" and thinks that louisiana is on mars. i read the editorial that is referenced here and i was surprised to see the historical insanity of the region flagrantly exhibited in this piece of unconcealed apologism. there are several clues that point to both its revisionism and lies but i think its never wise to point out, to one's enemies, their errors and give a way the game. there is one that is so amusing that i wondered if perhaps the entire piece was satire......

Posted by: donald vance | December 3, 2007 9:43 PM

Firehouse incident with noose was a hoax Firefighter admits placing rope, note http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-te.ci.probe02dec02,0,5563956.story http://www.examiner.com/a-1082326~Black_firefighter_admits_he_put_noose_in_firehouse.html http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/12/03/baltimore_firehouse_noose_a_hoax Media myths about the Jena 6 A local journalist tells the story you haven't heard. http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1024/p09s01-coop.html

Posted by: Wilson | December 3, 2007 9:02 PM

The most offensive words spoken by Mr. Cone came near the end of his interview, when he made the claim that the only way for America and the world to find "salvation" is through "the cross." Before that he claims that all humans are inherently "sinners." Let me say this: most rational people do not abide by these superstitions. Just because your "god" invented the concept of sin, do not assume these concepts exist as reality. Your god invented sin: so you wallow in it. Not me. Do not paint all people with that particular brush. As for Mr. Cone finding meaning in the word of his god, I didn't hear him refer to the many passages where god not only condones slavery but also gives advice on how to treat ones slaves. Also, Mr. Cone suggests the reason Black people survived slavery was through their faith. This is untrue. If Black Americans were practicing the faith they brought with them from Africa, then I would agree with him. But they simply embraced the white mans god. They abandoned their own. And the church. How strong the church has been for African Americans through the horrors of slavery, Mr Cone...

Posted by: Brian Martino | November 30, 2007 3:52 PM

As I watched this show I kept thinking I was having a hard time 'getting' it. Then you had that little bit from Sweet Honey and the Rock and suddenly I think I 'got' it. It all made sense. This is the most beautiful and amazing thing I've seen on TV in a long time. I'm not a Christian (although I grew up as one) and I'm just a white lady, but I think I get it. It's when all the forces of evil take away everything you have that you realize that the one thing they can never take is your humanity and your place in the universe. The birds don't worry about how they'll be provided for. But people do, and they express their worry in many ways, including fearing, hating and killing other people. Nooses are just an expression of fear. Fear that white people won't keep being the "winners". But in "winning" they lose because they are not able to truly understand their humanity and the love that God has for them. The noose attempts to kill the object of white fear but it can never kill the humanity of the person whose neck it encircles...

Posted by: Diane Soini | November 29, 2007 10:09 PM

The noose as a symbol of slavery has been replaced by the neck tie. Working in a "cubical" is no different than being put in a cage and selling yourself to the highest bidder. How long will humanity be human as the noose is drawn around our freedoms and liberties. The cost of living is going up and the wages are going no where. Freedom and liberty come at a cost in a capitalist system. It is the slow death of humanity as the powerful turn up the heat. We are all in the same pot and people of all heritages will suffer the same fate. We sell our independence for a pot of meaningless garbage.

Posted by: David Eddy | November 29, 2007 7:49 PM

A fascinating show!! And I was truly amazed with Dr. Cone's ideas and conversation with you. I have referred friends to your site to watch the show online. Many thanks for all that you do.

Posted by: Michael Spicer, Fernandina Beach, FL | November 29, 2007 3:36 PM

Dear Bill Moyers, Thank you for introducing me to the mind of James H. Cone by way of one of the finest programs ever on television (KEET, Eureka CA). The questions were as good as the answers. I’m glad the American people forced you out of retirement. I’ve got the transcript of the show on the screen next to this writing. I’ve also read some of the comments, enough to see how differently people relate and react. There was an engaging stream of powerful ideas presented through out the evening but the aspect of the conversation that causes me to write; when the discourse turned to “What can people do to try to help bring about this beloved community?” I found myself almost involuntarily mulling over possibilities. First is to believe that it can happen. I’m ready. I’ve been ready. Don’t lose hope. Nope…never. What’s next? “ The next step is to connect with people who have hope;….You have to connect and be around and organize with people who have hope.” My mind for some odd reason flashed to a web site that I once visited with photos of people from all around the world, sending their condolences to the...

Posted by: R W Evans | November 29, 2007 1:36 PM

There is a lot of good discussion here. The bottom line to me is whether the discussion and reconciliation happen here in America? Is there any historical precedent to where this has happened? I'm no historian, so in the animosity and conflicts of the past, with Jews, Palestinians, Sunnis, Arabs, aborigines, Incas, versus whoever, is there a template to build on? Thanks for reading. RJ

Posted by: RJ | November 28, 2007 7:30 PM

Why has no public discourse taken place about the nooses recently found at the California State University, Fullerton?

Posted by: Stephen | November 28, 2007 1:17 PM

Bill Moyers is honest enough to admit he or his Journal is not perfect. I'm sure Dr. Cone makes mistakes and is fully human too. Listening to the viewpoint of a caring person with whom you disagree is the first prerequisite of democracy. "Oh, I'm gonna cancel your podcast! I'm gonna go kiss the screen when Hannity comes on!" Such is only babyish drivel.If you support a closed minded lawmaker who opposes diverse opinions on PBS to counter corporate TV you are undermining your own freedoms. Sometimes I think we could put the burlesque hook right up there with the noose and the cross. "If you dissent we'll cut you off," is a fascist threat. Ask Phil Donohue or Tommy Smothers.

Posted by: Grady Lee Howard | November 28, 2007 10:01 AM

I first explain that I am a 63 year old "white guy". I was born into a family of folks where I was used to hearing, as a child (in the mid '40s, in Maryland at the time), that "all the Jews and niggers are taking all the jobs". Does that have a familiar sound, same song, 'nother verse today? At any rate, I would like to suggest the following (having somehow come to some imperfect and yet profound and unsettling understanding of the suffering of blacks, our native Americans, and hordes of others) for those who may have any difficulty at all "getting it" regarding the experience of an oppressed minority. One can get some idea of the meaning of burning crosses and lynchings and the like if one thinks of "us" ... the white majority at any given time ... as terrorists ... with a devilish twist. We had/have the upper hand, and yet we continue to want to put more fear into those whom we already dominate, either lest we lose our dominance, or because it's just "good (usually youthful) fun", or both. If one wants to know a bit of how it feels to be “on...

Posted by: jusme | November 28, 2007 7:18 AM

It seems a bit scary when someone (Brad Leon, for example) thinks that "Journal" is intended to be a "news" program, especially after having, apparently, watched or read it for a while. Moyers' choice of format and guests would seem to make plain which definition of "journal" he intends: "A personal record of occurrences, experiences, and reflections kept on a regular basis; a diary." With the emphasis on "personal" and "reflections". When one interviews one person for an hour, it would seem that one can and would expect a "one sided" view on any given subject, assuming a degree of sanity in the interviewee. I'd suggest "The News Hour" for those seeking "news". Note the title.

Posted by: jusme | November 28, 2007 5:54 AM

Excellent, Excellent discussion. One that quite frankly has been going on for years among black people. That for America to truly be great and live up to it's ideas it has to face it's sordid past and realize that actions done in the past still reverberate with us today.

Posted by: Nashid Habeeb | November 28, 2007 2:27 AM

Bill Moyers' fearsome intro reflected the popular reluctance among "white" Americans to discuss race in public events (such as Christian worship). However, it is important to note that there's organized work under way in many quarters to change this. Secular education and community organizing is going on in many communities, and across the generations. Most major Christian denominations now have training or dialogue programs to build awareness of the legacy and continuing prevalence of "white" supremacist assumptions in our culture, which are reflected subtly or overtly in many cultural and institutional practices. Dr. Cone's discussion, like his teaching and writing, provide rich inspiration for organizing to dismantle this corrupt system. Ultimately, we'll need to face the lie that's manifest in the "white" self-identity, which authorizes our association with positive metaphors contrasting sharply with most of those associated with blackness. But restorative justice needs to be an immediate focus. As Dr. Cone suggested, the prisons (our modern "lynching trees") and the correctional system that feeds them would be a good starting point, and also especially the underfunded educational systems, especially at primary and pre-school levels.

Posted by: Lou Schoen | November 28, 2007 12:33 AM

An insightful look at the scourge of racism in American history and life. I enjoyed the intellectual rigor of Dr. Cone's discussion with Mr. Moyers, and I am glad to see that such a serious program of discussion is made available to Americans and that many people feel compelled to respond and contribute. I agree with Dr. Cone that "white and black" America is of one family divided by violence and blood, that lynching serves as a powerful reminder of this history, and that America is far from innocent. There is even further agreement, I am sure, between myself and others that racism is merely the cretinous non-sense of humanity's more barbaric and immoral side. But lest we get too complacent in the false security of consensus, I found that while Dr. Cone provided much in the way of description and analysis, he provided little if anything in terms of a solution. The irrational and empty-headed discussion of metaphors, religion, "forgiveness" and the subtle casting of guilt upon "white" people (many of whose ancestors never saw a "black" person let alone lynched one), is leading us only further into legitimizing the utterly absurd notion that "race" is and ought to...

Posted by: J. Ginn | November 27, 2007 1:59 PM

Another insightful book that connects the many institutional faces of racism in America is Elaine Brown's "The Condemnation of Little B." In this book, she reveals how our country has turned to blaming the victims of poverty and has perpetuated disgraceful lies about black people.

Posted by: Nancy Buchanan | November 27, 2007 12:25 PM

Dr. Cone stated, "the ghetto...becomes a way, a metaphor for lynching, if lynching is understood and as one group forcing a kind of inhumanity upon another group." He is as right as rain. In order to control a people, they are concentrate together, so as to keep an eye on their activity. The saddest reality about the ghetto is when groups try to assist their leaving; they are ostracized, harassed, and even murdered because they are trying to do what is right in the sight of God. From our government to corporate America, to our churches and schools, African Americans have been psychologically brain “screwed” into thinking that failure [financially, medically, socially, and morally] is their only option in the United States. Our children and adults are forced to join gangs, [criminal, sorority, and fraternal] in order to manipulate their brains and control their behavior. It is as if, non-African Americans are manipulating African Americans to control each other. Our entertainment industry has told the world that the African American woman has no morals and is only interested in defaming and dehumanizing herself, her family and the African American male. The African American male is portrayed as an ignorant drug...

Posted by: S.L. Harris | November 27, 2007 10:01 AM

During the talk Professor Cone made reference to Niebuhr's term "terrible beauty" regarding the cross and the noose. Niebuhr did not coin the phrase but its source actually captures the point I believe Prof. Cone was trying to make. WB Yeats coined the term in a poem commemorating Irish resistance to oppression - Easter 1916. In the poem, referring to the sacrifice of the leaders of the insurrection of Easter 1916 in Ireland, he says "a terrible beauty is born". The source seems to make Prof. Cone's point about the unity of the cross and the noose - the resistance to oppression arising in the sign of the oppression itself - confronting power with its own excess from which emerges a consciousness of humanity and suffering, shared suffering, that can be killed but cannot be conquered. This is the terrible beauty. As an Irish woman when I see the noose, I see the oppression my people suffered too and in the triumphs of the civil rights movement, I found hope as many did before the peace so that when Bobby Sands died on hunger strike, the banner said: Bobby Sands Free at Last. To Prof. Cone and to Mr. Moyers...

Posted by: Angela Hegarty | November 27, 2007 8:24 AM

This will be my final comment. If there were a round table discussion perhaps I could get my points across more fully and could respond to some of your thoughts and accusations. The odd thing is there is MUCH of what others have said in response to what I said with which I agree. Much has been said eloquently. Some has not. Of course, I try to look at both ends and in the middle of all issues as nothing is all one way or the other. Of course I know people overcome huge odds and work diligently every day. Having said that one cannot deny some of what one sees. One doesn't necessarily have to see everything first hand but certain media reports are credible and SOME observations are true. As for US policy I also do not see it all one way or the other. Human beings are not angels. This is a dangerous world and homo sapiens has an aggressive gene in us somewhere. The US is not to blame for all the world's problems BUT it does, no doubt about it, contribute to some. I consider myself left of center -- slightly left. The problem I...

Posted by: Natalie Rosen | November 27, 2007 7:27 AM

Dr. Cone's conflation of lynching tree with the cross was ingenious. As a former Christian, I am glad to see Dr. King's legacy of healing the U.S. disease of compulsory denial of its racist roots continued. And yes, I agree this country’s original sin did actually begin with the genocide of the indigenous population here. But that is someone else's story to tell. One question for those of us who reap the benefits of the civil rights era is how can we learn from others' stories in order to continue our liberation. What symbols of oppression and liberation are valid for those of other cultures and can we help each other out by entering into that creative dialogue Dr. Cone spoke of? Understanding that compassion and identification with the terrorized, the imprisoned, the abused, and the invaded has to be a priority for us in the U.S., Christian or not. To Ms. Rosen and her comments on "taking responsibility for one's own life" and all those evil black ghettos out there with all those violent immoral criminals: I challenge you to actually go to one of those ghettos and document all the immoral things you find. You may also find...

Posted by: Pallist | November 27, 2007 1:25 AM

I was very moved by the Bill Moyers interview with James Cone. Never stated, and possibly not even implied, in the discussion was how this victimization of those who were lynched also applies in our nation's dealings with the rest of the world. Is it perhaps the case that the "war on terror" is a declaration by those in power in the US and the world that we will send our gangs (or gangs we support, as in Pakistan) anywhere and everywhere to lynch those who need lynching (again, having not read Cone, I don't know how much he gets into the motivation of those that do the lynching, and whether the motivation of those who tie the nooses might be different from the motivation of those who inspire them to do the lynching). To me, Bush's statements about "bringing them to justice" -- where he almost always means death or permanent imprisonment, but almost never means public trial and due process -- have always had a "lynching" flavor to them. I know, I know -- it is almost treason, a political blasphemy, to describe what our troops are doing in the world as a kind of lynch mob. Is...

Posted by: Bob F | November 27, 2007 12:23 AM

But please Ms Rosen assume the logical continuity of what you say! In your original email you cited your Jewishness as one of the premises for your opinions. Your point was that the current so called 'sins' of the African American community negated any discussion of their Holocaust(s). (Which of course could NEVER be interpreted as being on the same magnitude as your own Holocaust…) ------ Please assume RESPONSIBILITY(your own 'key word') for what you meant. -------- So therefore I only took your statement and drew the obvious conclusions. You said that your Jewish background helps you to empathize with the plight of African Americans. Yet, you then ask them(or it's more like "tell them")to accept collective responsibility for the sins of some in their community (that you have certainly observed on your local "Eyewitness news" television channel)and then you in turn refuse to accept responsibility for the great collective sins of your own community. And then rather than accept responsibility for the the collective crimes of your own 'tribe', you dare to use brazen clichés based on the fraudulent "a land without people for a people without land" lies. ------- And what's more, 90% of what you mentioned in...

Posted by: eric schultz | November 26, 2007 11:31 PM

If nooses are considered to be hate symbols, then gang graffiti must also be considered to be hate symbols. Gang members mark their territory by tagging neighborhoods with their graffiti to intimidate people in the neighborhood to be afraid of gang members. Those who claim that graffiti is "art" have no idea what it means to live in a decaying neighborhood where people are afraid to go outside or let their kids play outside. Gang graffiti has the exact same effect as nooses, they send a message to the people that if they talk to the police about gang activity, the gang members will take revenge. Gang graffiti not only targets the people in the poorer neighborhoods, Blacks and immigrant Latinos, but scares white people from going into gang infested neighborhoods. Good decent hard working people living in lower income neighborhoods are intimidated to live in perpetual fear from gangs. Gang graffiti causes more damage to Blacks and poor people than nooses.

Posted by: Wilson | November 26, 2007 7:59 PM

Ms. Rosen. speaking only for myself, i need no assertions in speech and so, "mea culpa"s are quite useless. however, there remains the indisputable fact: most people today refuse to behave as though atrocity was committed(and continues). this is equally true of "Black People" who are hard pressed to recognise the futility of "debating" this issue, as well. Mens' inhumanity to their fellows is an unfortunate given, but highlighting issues of criminality is actually beside the point. so, here is the point: any predisposition to any assumed value for the individual is an error in judgment. we used to call it "prejudice" and i was educated quite young as to its potential disaster. today's social quandry in re racism is less about the style of it than the effects of this prejudice on the ability of any single person to be adequately judged on individual merit. find any abstract you like of class/race distinction and see if any such characteristic of the group may adequately describe even any single individual of this group. even fratboys differ one to the other. this entire discussion rests on the solipsism of race validity, which any four year old can decide is specious, provided...

Posted by: donald vance | November 26, 2007 6:43 PM

How many times would you like a person to say lynching black people and racism against them are wrong? Of course they are wrong! I will say mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Now I've said that over and over and over again. I recently wrote an editorial decrying the racism regarding the unjust imprisonment of the Jena 6. Of course nooses mean something. The ones who perpetrated that rancid act knew EXACTLY what they meant. One would have to be a moron not to realize the impact a symbol like has on a person. It's the equivalent of a swastika. There is no question absolutely no question that racism existed, still exists, has been and is a cancer on our body politic. The question is after admitting the obvious over and over again, flagellating oneself and after discussing the fact of racism for decades then what? The logical extension of the discussion after the admission that the US is racist is racism's impact on the black community today. I am saying at some point people must take responsibility for their own actions and no amount of guilt or money or empathy about the problem will rectify people's lives...

Posted by: Natalie Rosen | November 26, 2007 5:32 PM

What are you all talking about? I watched the interview. I watched it twice. (TiVo) Once again, everybody is talking about everything but the elephant in the room. Dr Cone said that he wanted to start a discussion about Lynching and the Cross. You all are regurgitating all of the same talking points that people have been bringing up my whole life to avoid getting to the real issue. I'm 50 and African-American. I was born in the south where lynching was a reality. And I've heard all this kind of talking before. Everybody knows a black man was lynched last night; everybody knows who did it. But no one will dare say this is wrong and this must stop. Nobody gets charged with a crime or arrested. Then everybody starts blaming the victim of the lynching for bringing this on himself. He should have known better. Black people have the “wrong” attitude, they need to be more like (insert another non-white ethnic group here). They have low morals or low intelligence, etc, etc, etc. How it's a shame but he had it coming. He shouldn't have done this or that. As if the victim of the lynching is to...

Posted by: gjohloc | November 26, 2007 4:48 PM

I certainly did evoke controversy and if one really READS my former statement it is, I think, fair. I acknowledge history but I also acknowlege the individual's responsibility to help himself. Some agreed and others vociferously did not. I stand by what I said and think too Dr. Cone's discussion with Bill Moyers had NOTHING to do with the realities of the Holocaust and the existence of the State of Israel today. Israel is a fact and the Jewish people, as they always have, fight for their right to live. Even with nearly a century of annihilative threats, the Jewish people literally made flowers grow in the desert. They made a heretofore barely cultivated land thrive. That does not mean I am impervious to bad behavior when I see it. I am not. No state gets it all right all the time. The Jewish people knew, however, that the only ones they could trust with their survival and advancement were themselves.

Posted by: Natalie Rosen | November 26, 2007 11:13 AM

Of course Mr Drake, you wouldn't see it. First of all, there was no rationale put forward by Dr Cone to justify the current state of the African-American comumunity - that was imagined by Ms Rosen. His message was about America in general and the symbol of the noose in particular and our tendency to sweep that essential fact of our collective being under the proverbial carpet. And therefore the fact that we can't really become a real nation until we have dealt with it. ----- If there had been a show about the meaning of the Holocaust and then I blogged afterward with a statement that approximated Ms Rosen's statement, it would read something like this: "All these people that talk about Jewish suffering during the Holocaust are so strident. That's old history: the story today is that Israel persecutes Palestianians and they drop depleted uranium bombs on Lebanon . So therefore, because of Israel's current day actions, the Holocaust is nullified as a moral issue." Please note that I am NOT saying this myself - and I don't believe that and neither does Norman Finkelstein (and if you're not aware of the struggles of this son of Holocaust...

Posted by: eric schultz | November 26, 2007 8:04 AM

In response to Isome, Mr. Williams did not pretend to be a sociologist. Rather, he reported crime statistics published by the US Department of Justice.

Posted by: RTD | November 26, 2007 6:00 AM

RTD used an opinion column from Walter Williams as a rebuttal to the claim that most crime is intra-racial. Walter Williams is an economist. He is not a sociologist who uses statistical equations to back up and or doublecheck his conclusions, nor even someone who is more interested in the facts than satisfying those from whom he seeks validation. He's a rightwing pundit. However, if sources of information with an unmistakeable agenda are the rule here, then google Tim Wise and any number of his writings will soundly refute anything Walter Williams has to say. Here's an excerpt from TimWise.org "As sociologist Robert O'Brian has noted (using Census data), the odds of a given white person (or white criminal for that matter) encountering a black person are only about three percent. On the other hand, the odds of a given black person (or black criminal) encountering a white person are nineteen times greater, or fifty-seven percent (6), meaning the actual interracial victimization gap between black-on-white and white-on-black crime is smaller than one would expect. In 2002, blacks committed a little more than 1.2 million violent crimes, while whites committed a little more than three million violent crimes (7). If each...

Posted by: Isome | November 26, 2007 1:05 AM

I am not sure of the exact wording, but i believe that Rev. King's message was not just about Black Americans but how humans treat each other. I see it everyday, especially in High schools. It makes me worry about the future of the world with this self-centered view of the world and relating to the world that has become part of the values of our country. I find it very sad, that religion in America has lost its ability to change people.

Posted by: Thanks | November 26, 2007 12:31 AM

I remember all too well the moment I first realized that I was racist. That realization came to me almost exactly 30 years ago during Dr. Fred Herzog's theology class in my first year at Duke Divinity School when during a class discussion I realized that classmate Virgil Lattimore, who would later become a seminary president, was much more intelligent than I am. That surprised me. It was then I realized how racist I was - to my shame I was surprised because Virgil is African American and I had never experienced before the reality of an African American classmate who was clearly more intelligent than I (it was the '70s - I had been an undergraduate and graduate chemistry student at Illinois State where there had been very few African American students in my chemistry classes. Some of them may indeed have been more intelligent than I, but I had not yet experienced the reality of that.). I was ashamed of my surprise. If someone had asked me if there were African American students in the Divinity School who were more intelligent than I, I think I would have replied that of course there were, but here in this...

Posted by: Rev. Dr. Mike Jones | November 25, 2007 10:10 PM

Well said by Natalie Rosen. My reaction to the interview was very similar. Dripping with racism? You can't be serious! I too was a little disappointed in Mr. Moyers. He came across less like a skilled interviewer and more like an awe-struck student sitting at the feet of the master. That's okay. Everybody has a bad day now and again.

Posted by: Bob Drake | November 25, 2007 9:52 PM

The discussion on this topic was insightful, excellent, inspiring, en-lighting, brilliant,and inevitable. Bill Moyers, Dr. Cone and PBS; you have started a community discussion on the history and current relationships between the races in America. I praise you for your bravery. Please continue this topic in any format possible. I am hooked on PBS! paw

Posted by: paw | November 25, 2007 9:39 PM

Being relevant in the moment...that's what matters most. And that's what Mr. Moyers has always been about. And this recent conversation with Dr. Cone is just one step in long, rich history of intellectual discourse. From his deep conversations with Joseph Campbell on the profound subject of "The Power of Myth", to the writing of his forward thinking book entitled "Healing and the Mind" (which was written way before that subject became cliche) it was, and has always been Bill Moyers leading the way. But let's be clear, I like Mr. Moyers, not because I agree with everything he says. No, that's not it at all. Instead, I admire him because of his willingness to take risk and remain transparent. And to that point, I admire his willingness to challenge popular convention. Bill Moyers shows us that you can get to the bottom of things without being tacky, crass or sensationalistic. I mean, let's face it...the man has class. And in todays world of Faux News, that's a hard thing to come by. Yet, aside from all the that, the truth is, is that he does what he's supposed to do. Plain and simple. He ask questions. Real questions. Questions...

Posted by: Max Eternity | November 25, 2007 9:11 PM

I am absolutely aghast at Ms. Rosen's disgusting contribution to this forum. It is just dripping with her own racism, which of course only she is permitted to exhibit in current day American culture exclusively because of her own ethnic origin which gives her "carte blanche" to dismiss the struggles of any people other than her own . ---- If she wants others to take her holocaust seriously, she should start by taking other people's holocausts seriously. ----- --- ----- I am waiting for the first accusations of anti semitism from the JDL types like Ms Rosen to appear on this blog. Such a label is supposed to turn off the spigot of my first amendment rights to speak about this subject - a subject which has become even more 'sensitive ' in modern day USA than the nooses. I dare anyone to find the slightest substanstiated example of racism in my text, I'm only calling for understanding, awareness and sensitivity. -

Posted by: eric schultz | November 25, 2007 9:10 PM

Dr. Cone mentions the book "The Irony of American History" by Reinhold Niebuhr. I have looked everywhere for this book and all I can find are rare versions for several hundreds of dollars. Amazon.com has a version it says will not be available until 2008. Why is this book so hard to find? Can anyone tell me where I might get a copy?

Posted by: Shaun | November 25, 2007 8:29 PM

A preface: I will always love Bill Moyers. I am riveted to most Bill Moyers interviews. Unfortunately, Dr. James Cone's interview did not inspire. I always want to give my honest assessment and hope you will indulge me my criticism. I loath being preached to and yelled at. Dr. Cone's loud diatribe lost me and at one point I turned the channel. I have the UTMOST empathy for the historical plight of the black man in this country. I must because I am a Jew. I know full well the impact of racism and its exclusion and what it does to a people and to a human psyche. My people were slaughtered for centuries, ghettoized and excluded often seemingly with no hope. Anti-Semitism exists en mass to this day. Jews had to come back from their near extinction and did so wherever they could through savvy intelligence, communicative abilities, education and hard work. While no two group's experience is the same, the similarities of racism, I believe, are profound. Dr. Cone's sentiments, I thought, were cacophonous high decibel rants. While we should never forget man's inhumanity to anyone, Dr. Cone's utterings were a bit tiresome. I utterly agree with Bill...

Posted by: Natalie Rosen | November 25, 2007 6:09 PM

I was deeply moved br Dr. Cone's presentation. I love his definition of religion and of the Divine - that which maintains your humanity in the midst of extraordinary degradation. (My paraphrase may not do him justice.) I am reminded of my teacher's (Rev. Dr. Bevery Lanzetta)comment: "God is that which cannot withdraw." people like Dr. Cone will help us create a conception of the divine that is truly compassionate and inclusive.

Posted by: neema | November 25, 2007 6:03 PM

The poster Isome stated that most crime is intra-racial. The following extract from an article by noted columnist Walter Williams appears to negate that. Note the 4th paragraph: Jewish World Review Aug. 18, 1999 /6 Elul, 5759 Walter Williams An ugly conspiracy of silence http://www.jewishworldreview.com -- "IF THERE'S TO BE RACIAL GOODWILL and harmony, at the minimum we must be willing to confront sometimes ugly truths. One of those truths has to do with interracial crime.... ....Since 1972, the U.S. Department of Justice has conducted a National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) to determine the frequency of certain crimes. One category is interracial crimes. Its most recent publication (1997), "Criminal Victimization in the U.S.," reports on data collected in 1994. In that year, there were about 1,700,000 interracial crimes, of which 1,276,030 involved whites and blacks. In 90 percent of the cases, a white was the victim and a black was the perpetrator, while in 10 percent of the cases it was the reverse. Another finding of the NCVS report is that of the 2,025,464 violent crimes committed by blacks in 1994, 1,140,670 were against whites -- that's slightly over 56 percent. Whites committed 5,114,692 violent crimes; 135,360, or 2.6 percent...

Posted by: RTD | November 25, 2007 5:11 PM

Mr.Cone needs to calm down and get a reality check. maybe visit a psychiatrist. He and some of the other black leaders are still obsessed with explicit symbols of white on black injustice such as KKK, the noose, lynchings et al. its because of people like him that most white Americans think racism in America doesnt exist. They say " oh look we have laws against KKK, we have laws against lynching, we have black employees in our office, hell we even shake hands with some of them". The problem with Mr. Cone assessment of racism is that I dont think he realizes that racism in America is far more subtle now. We may have ended explicit segregation, but discrimination in in America has morphed into one of voluntary segregation where the white majority chooses to deliberately segregate themselves from African Americans and other minorities. For example we have all heard the term white flight, plus the recent news about the redistricting of areas in Missouri and Seattle where white families wanted to send their kids to school seperate from black children. This case reached the Supreme Court and they voted in favor of resegregation, where now African American children...

Posted by: girlyman | November 25, 2007 4:52 PM

Extraordinary presentation! I turned on the TV, got schooled and had church! Amen Dr. Cone! Amen! And thank you Bill Moyers for intelligent programming.

Posted by: C Davis | November 25, 2007 4:02 PM

I cannot recall which prominent Washington DC personality proclaimed that 'race is no longer an issue in America', but clearly, it still is. Are things better now, than they were in the past? Yes. But to dismiss and deny that there is still work to be done is the loose brick that threatens to collapse the foundations built by progressives over the last century and more. The judge who casually allowed the students who hung those nooses to go unpunished set the stage for more trouble. The subsequent gang beating of the white student involved was not a proud moment, either, but it is gross injustice to ignore the psychologically violent and very, very loaded symbolism of the nooses. Some in America, regrettably, would have us dragged back to a time when rampant intimidation and collective murder were enforced by corruption, indifference to justice, and institutionalized racism. Those that dismiss the hanging of nooses as being a harmless prank are on a slippery slope. Either they secretly approve of such threatening insults, or their ignorance of the very real, very bloody recent past is shockingly deep. In this day and age, such ignorance must not be tolerated or excused.

Posted by: David Longey | November 25, 2007 1:12 PM

Brad Leon wrote: "... you seem to care less about reporting news as promoting a point of view. While that may be your intention, you do a disservice to your listeners by reporting on only one side of the issue." This is not a news show, it is a journal, and a different perspective from that found in mainstream media is the primary selling point. It would not be interesting to hear from those who think that hanging a noose in an office or from a tree is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. And, it would be sickening to hear from those who recognize their relatives (or even themselves) in the pictures of lynchings that were sent around as celebratory momentos of the occasion and feel pride about it. Let's get this straight, hanging the individual from the tree wasn't all that was done to the victim. Most of the men were also castrated and burned. There was even a preganant Black woman whose stomach was sliced open. That Brad Leon thinks those on the 'other side' of this issue should be heard says much more about Brad's thought processes than it does about Bill Moyers' point of view...

Posted by: Isome | November 25, 2007 12:20 PM

When Dr. Cone talks about Americans inability to recognize their lack of innocence he hits the nail on the head, and it is reaffirmed by some of the comments here. Someone wrote of African slavery (Africans holding other Africans as slaves) to minimize the horrors of enslaved Africans in America. What that poster fails to point out (or perhaps is ignorant of) is that slavery in Africa was not the brutal and lifelong institution that it was here in America. Further, the poster attempts to camouflage the current day effect slavery has by pointing to other enslaved people in history. No other people were denied their language, their customs, their family ties and their basic humanity as the enslaved Africans in America. That's the bottom line, whether others choose to recognize it or not. That fact that Africans in America commit crimes against other Africans isn't a mitigating factor for the crime of hanging a noose to scare people of African descent. Crime is not race exclusive; most crime in INTRA-racial not interracial, so it should be no surprise that there are criminals in every group, racial or otherwise. With respect to the same poster's claim that Blacks terrorize other...

Posted by: Isome | November 25, 2007 12:00 PM

Yes, I believe that people understand what the hangman’s noose means in America for African Americans. This symbol is a sore reminder to the world that our society is still in its infancy. Dr. Cone comparison of lynching to the cross is so profound. It makes me wonder how many devout Christians were lynched? His assessment that prisons are another form of lynching is an extremely important point. I strongly believe that our federally funded corporate prison system is another form of enslavement for the African American male, the poor, and the disenfranchised. The sea of white people attending the lynching in the newspaper clipping was shocking, yet I wondered; how many of them claimed and knew in their hearts that they were devout Sunday-go-to-meeting Christians? Ironically, after delving into genealogy, I wondered how many were passing for white? Racism is useless. Evidently, whites in America can’t tell the difference and blacks in America look the other way. Personally, I feel that if that this subject is presented everyday, racism would dissipate, but knowingly, our society would come up with something to categorize, classify, and organize us by the way our fingers are shaped. Passing is a painful subject. My...

Posted by: S.L. Harris | November 25, 2007 9:36 AM

Wow. Imagine that: an hour of serious, civilized dialogue on racism in America between members of two races on primetime network broadcast television. Bravo! But what really inspires is all of your reactions to the interview. From watching commercial televison and listening to talk radio, one would conclude that the art of meaningful public conversation and debate had died long ago. But all of you have demonstrated that there are people who are more interested in discussing the issues raised rather than resorting to namecalling and pigeonholing of one's "opponent." Even Mr. Donald Vance (above) took the time to explain what he meant by "absurd," "moronic idiocies," and "stupidity" on the part of Mr. Moyers / PBS instead of simply raising the specter of one boogeyman or another to (simply) engage in personal attack(s). Dr. Cone, in response to Mr. Moyer's question, stated that the two things we can do in order to bring about Dr. King's "beloved community" are 1) to have hope and 2) to organize, even if that means two people. By responding in the manner that you have, you have provided hope (at least to me) that perhaps one day Dr. King's dream may come to...

Posted by: Lyle Medved | November 25, 2007 3:22 AM

Blogging is a new experience for me, but I feel compelled to share my reaction to Bill Moyers’ interview with Dr. Cone. My initial reaction was negative - the shrill, accusatory voice of this guest grated on my nerves. However, I was intrigued by his comparison between the cross and the lynching tree, a new perspective for me. But the longer he spoke, the more I perceived a tortured logic, nor could I keep from noticing his body language - the right hand seemed to be twisting a knife in someone, again and again. While Dr. Cone suggested - demanded - dialogue between whites and blacks, he set a poor example. In place of dialogue, what I saw was an angry black man ranting. I saw a man who admits he enjoys making whites uncomfortable browbeating, verbally, the host who was providing him with a platform on national TV, the fair-minded Bill Moyers. Therefore when I read these responses, I was astounded at how many guilt-ridden people had “bought into” Dr. Cone’s idea of America’s “original sin”! Come on, the “America” of here and now is a widely diverse group of individuals in a certain geographical location, governed by...

Posted by: Lois Smith | November 25, 2007 1:18 AM

The noose incident at Jena had nothing to do with race. Whites were hanged too, prolly many more times than blacks. Most of these noose cases are just hoaxes, I am positive that that affirmative action Ed. Prof .at Columbia did it herself to garner sympathy and extort a law suit. There is no mistake that petty crap , like this noose hysteria, is happening in this election cycle. The black power race hustlers, with the aid of their spineless liberal sidekicks, are trying to make blacks into some great big victims group so they can weasel out of their crimes and get more handouts and set aside jobs.

Posted by: Jakealope | November 24, 2007 11:25 PM

Sorry, but that interview left me cold. Calling the high percentage of blacks in prison a result of modern day lynching? Please! Cone lost all credibility with me when he came up with that one.

Posted by: RTD | November 24, 2007 11:23 PM

I was happy to finally learn more about this subject, which is usually considered too touchy and taboo to even approach. Although, it's terrible that the opportunity for conversation has come about because of racist scaremongering. Dr. Cone makes an important point by comparing the crucifix to the hanging tree. The grim specter of the hanging tree in American culture does indeed symbolize the crucifixion of blacks. This is why nooses have the terrifying psychological impact that they do, because they symbolize the black American's crucifixion.

Posted by: pixiequix | November 24, 2007 10:57 PM

Thanks to both of you for the discussion. My own experience is that white folks still do not recognize their whiteness...Even at the Smithsonian, where I volunteer, folks just do not get it and certainly do not want to discuss differences! I do believe that anti-black is in our DNA in this country...and no matter how educated...we just do not recognize our "White Thang."

Posted by: Judith Claire | November 24, 2007 8:54 PM

Response to Brad Leon It is said "There is none so blind as he who refuses to see and none so blind as one who refuses to hear" May be Mr Moyers should bring a KKK member to come defend the reason for Lynching

Posted by: Larry | November 24, 2007 7:30 PM

This was the most inspiring discussion I've seen on TV all year and one of the most ever. All my life, I've heard many in the majority say that their heritage in this country began after slavery, therefore are not responsible. However, accepting the identity of majority also meant accepting it's histor and present. Regardless of when an ancestor came on board, the entire history belongs to those who identify with the group. Those in the majority now, have an opportunity to find a solution to the race issue, along with those who are not. Let's take this opportunity and run with it.

Posted by: Monica Wilson | November 24, 2007 7:20 PM

This was the most inspiring discussion I've seen on TV all year and one of the most ever. All my life, I've heard many in the majority say that their heritage in this country began after slavery, therefore are not responsible. However, accepting the identity of majority also meant accepting it's histor and present. Regardless of when an ancestor came on board, the entire history belongs to those who identify with the group. Those in the majority now, have an opportunity to find a solution to the race issue, along with those who not. Let's take this opportunity and run with it.

Posted by: Monica Wilson | November 24, 2007 7:19 PM

Jim S. wrote: "When I come before another person then as a child of God, I can love that person only when I see Christ in that person." I believe that Jim has spoken for too many "Americans" who call themselves Christians and don't love as Christ loved. Is is saddening that in 2007 the Jim S's of the world still feel this way about race, prejudice and hate. What is sad is that you can only love those who you see Christ in. I am certainly glad that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...even yet while the world didn't have Christ in them. God loves even when He doesn't see Christ in us. Saints don't need salvation because they have obtained it; what good is your love if you only want to share it with person's who you feel is like you? How do you plan to win unbelievers or the unsaved? Christ did not see His character reflected in those who hung him on the cross, yet He loved them and hung on the cross for them. This should be the reason to love...because Christ first loved us and because He is...

Posted by: Reverend Doctor Toni Jackson | November 24, 2007 4:37 PM

So DP has a hard time "taking serious" a aperson whose ideology is taken from song lyrics? Many besides Dr. Cone take that song very seriously. Last June I was privileged to attend the world premiere of an opera, "Strange Fruit," in the Memorial Auditorium at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill. "With Friday night's opener in Memorial Hall, the world premiere of "Strange Fruit" by composer Chandler Carter and librettist Joan Ross Sorkin, the [Long Leaf Opera] company is on its way to fulfilling its great promise. Based on the controversial 1944 novel by Lillian E. Smith, [which in turn inspired the even more famous song] the opera is set in 1920s rural Georgia and centers on the forbidden love affair between Tracey, a young white man, and Nonnie, a black nursemaid. When Nonnie tells Tracey she's pregnant, he is unable to face the consequences and breaks off the relationship, suggesting she marry his black servant Henry for cover. When Nonnie's hotheaded brother Ed learns the situation, he hunts down Tracey and kills him. Matters get worse when Henry is wrongly accused of the crime, leading to a mob's chilling retribution. Nonnie braves it all, determined to bring up...

Posted by: Sarah Greene | November 24, 2007 4:19 PM

Mr. Cone speaks honestly and from his heart; knowingly of injustice and pain. I noticed with diaappointment that when he spoke other peoples who have endured ugly acts of discrimination in this country, he too, forgot to include Native Americans. Maybe that's because those that remain are are only roughly 2% of the population.

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Posted by: FREEDOMFREE | November 24, 2007 3:28 PM

Thank you Mr. Moyers and Mr. Cone. What a revelatory discussion. I look forward to reading the books by Dr. Cone, as what he said surpassed any other dialogue I have ever heard on the interaction between oppressor and oppressed. This is a wonderful blueprint for life. Dr. Cone, the work I have been doing lately with a very difficult school leader I now see in another light. You put words to my very feelings. You illuminate the idea that it is the powerless who must seize their inner power and connect to that oppressor through their humanity. This is the work I have been doing, and now I understand why. I looked at it as conflict resolution. But it is so much more. It is a blueprint for any struggle of power/powerlessness. Although I fear many people will distort the religious intent you gave in your discussion, that's the nature of religion. I'll leave that out of my own discoveries, but will certainly look to the way Dr. Cone describes that process in the overall struggle toward a greater truth. Here's to meeting in the middle; here's to moving toward understanding and compassion. Thank you Dr. Cone! Thank you...

Posted by: neen | November 24, 2007 1:35 PM

As someone who has a long held identification with those oppressed, I found the conversation very inspiring.

Posted by: Michael Haider | November 24, 2007 1:28 PM

Bill Your discussion with Dr. Cone brought the short novel "The Oxbow Incident" to mind. Would love to hear Dr. Cone's evaluation of the message that work conveys in regard to his topic on your program.

Posted by: jim s. | November 24, 2007 1:03 PM

Thank you Mr. Moyers for bringing us another challenging and thought provoking interview with Dr. Cone. As a layman who spends a good deal of time in the study of theology, I will now add James Cone's books to my reading list. I particularly liked the review of his "Spirituals and the Blues". Since I enjoy both very much I shall now listen with a new ear. While I found much of Dr. Cone's theology of the cross and the noose of intellectual interest, I found his suggestions that dialogue on the latter will help restore harmony between the races to be a bit naive. Instead I see the cross as God's way to restore the harmony of His entire creation. Christ's suffering and death was payment for my sin and all those who come to Him in faith. When I come before another person then as a child of God, I can love that person only when I see Christ in that person. I see the restoration of harmony between the races and among all peoples as a result of having first been restored to peace with God through Christ Jesus. For it is only through His law of...

Posted by: Dr. Charles P. Arnold, Jr. | November 24, 2007 12:39 PM

I was captivated by Dr Cone's comments. He made a lot of sense, particularly in his appeal to our common humanity. I didn't quite get his insistence on coming to terms with slavery, lynchings, etc. But I do know that I need to come to terms with where I grew up, where there was a big problem with racial issues. I am grateful to hear Dr Cone's words, as so much of what I've learned about race and, particularly, Black people, has been mediated by whites. I tend to think of discussion on race as being passe, but Dr Cone has dispelled that notion!

Posted by: Tom | November 24, 2007 12:31 PM

Bill and Dr. Cone: your dialog was inspirational. I was raised a SE Louisiana racist, grandson of a slaveholder. You continue my journey into the light. I would appreciate, Dr. Cone (and others) your comments on my "12 Steps for Racism" below. Thank you very much. THE TWELVE STEPS OF RACISM ANONYMOUS 1.We are white Americans. We gained our advantage in this society, in part, from our ancestral and current enslavement, segregation and marginalization of African Americans. 2.Believe that God alone can reconcile this travesty. 3.Made a decision turn ourselves over to God to heal this injustice. 4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5.Admitted to God, to ourselves and to at least one other person (group) the exact nature of our wrongs. 6.Are entirely ready to have God remove the residual defects of this injustice in us. 7.Humbly asked God to cleanse us of these flaws of heritage and living. 8.Made a list of all the people we have harmed and became willing to make amends to all of them. 9.Made amends to them, where possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10.Continued to make a personal inventory and when we were wrong...

Posted by: Hill Kemp | November 24, 2007 12:18 PM

Mr. Moyers, I am unsubscribing from your podcast for the same reason I won't subscribe to most shows on Fox; you seem to care less about reporting news as promoting a point of view. While that may be your intention, you do a disservice to your listeners by reporting on only one side of the issue. Regards, Brad Leon

Posted by: Brad Leon | November 24, 2007 12:02 PM

Evil and good all mixed up together... sounds like American politics. I am a late middleaged white man who has borrowed what soul he has from oppressed people. Yes, caring and empathetic people do have a harder time working in America. Yes, People with self-respect do have a harder time getting a job. Yes, People who are humanitarian and/or forgiving Christian do live in fear of being singled out to be punished as negative examples. Being black makes these things harder because you can't put your color away, and blacks are a symbol as powerful as the cross or the noose. Every little black boy who rides his bike past my block is a symbol of our shameful history, but also an innocent child. (We keep 21/2 million Amerindians invisible in ghettoes, on reservations,in the military, at degrading casinos.) 32 million blacks are as many people as in Iraq, and they could be a problem for elite economic domination. Even worse, they are mostly Christian, not Islamic. Still they are the easy scapegoats of the new Nazi-American Order. If you are white just remember that your neck will fit in that noose too. (Saddam Hussein's did.)Look how innocent civilians are...

Posted by: Grady Lee Howard | November 24, 2007 11:31 AM

I was awaken out of my sleep to the conversation with Moyers & Cone it was good. I just have this to say lynching is still present today in many ways and economic lynching is one of them, every president of a company should take a look at the pay scales of blacks against whites especially the darker blacks and the positions if blacks. The darker you are the less likely are are to be in management. People don't want to talk about racisium, they want to cover it up. Cone was right the Church is the only place Black Americans can be themselves. You can't at work because we have to spend a lot of time and money trying to look white and be white; and I'm focusing on work because this is where I experience most of my lynching. White Americans got to stop lookinig at Black Americans as lazy and trying to get something for nothing. For instance, where I work you can go to another department and do an exploratory interview, the exploratory interview I went to my manager was told that there was a lot of overtime required. At the e-interview I 3 questing about...

Posted by: caedanage | November 24, 2007 10:19 AM

I look forward to watching Bill Moyers,but when Dr. James Cone first started talking,I started to think of channel changing. However, within a few moments, he was giving me insight to the american psyche in an understanding I had not previously heard. Coming from another country I just didn't 'get it'as far as why there is such resentment against each other,but now I have a much greater insight into the underpinnings of what makes america tick. His analogy to the "cross and the lynching tree" rings true, and the fact that we are all brothers and sisters in this dance is a powerful lesson. Not only has he made me understand what an african american feels, he has brought me closer to why Jesus hung on the cross.His message that those who understand must make a grass roots effort to let the good overcome the evil is well taken.

Posted by: maureen | November 24, 2007 10:17 AM

My initial reaction to the first part of the story was that Dr. Cone was himself perpetuating the troubles of racial division through identification with a single race. It is through such divisions as race and religion that enables groups to committ atrocities in the name of that group, as well as the subsequent victim identification with the oppressed group. However; Dr. Cone began in the second part to address and shed light on that which I see as the truth. Personal accountability. Individual responsibility. By voicing and articulating your personal experience can the individual be empowered. When a person listens to and understands another person, the listener gains the ability to empathize with that person. Our problems with race are metaphors for our inner struggle. Our problems lie in the tension within us caused by conflicting forces. Man is civilized. Man is animal. The good and evil, the black and white, the polarities we percieve outside of us are merely reflections of the choice we must all make everyday. I loved Dr. Cone's comment regarding transcendence through expression. To speak of good and evil is to create a third perspective, and it is through this third door that we...

Posted by: Micah Bennett | November 24, 2007 10:13 AM

what Dr. Cones has brought to light tells the story of human kind for thousands of years. He reveals how the powerful by a variety of means, deny, rationalize and eventually destroy what they obsessively try to create. it is a story lived again and again. I am sure it went on before Christ and it surely has gone on since Christ and even in Christs' name. It is the story of people failing their own humanity and what humanity is revealed as, is that which is of God in each and every one of us. To do anything that is designed to take humanity from another, will take humanity from you. This is the story of those who gain some form of advantage over others and use it to control, abuse and or destroy them in some way. Though the people who create their advantage have done so for thousands of years and have gotten more technologically sophisticated in their attempts, they are in reality fighting against God and so fail with horrible consequences each time. The amount of time they can abuse their advantage and keep the illusion of their control in place is equal to the ability...

Posted by: lee jankowski | November 24, 2007 9:58 AM

Mr. Moyers, I am relatively new to The Journal. I just want to thank you for having such an informative show. In the last few months, I have just learned so much...and now each Friday is PBS night for me! Hope you had a great holiday and thanks again. Keep up the great work that you have been doing for us all.

Posted by: cc | November 24, 2007 9:57 AM

Dear Mr Moyer thanks so much for another excellent interview. .............. BTW gadfly, that is Newton's third law of motion not Einstein's

Posted by: anon | November 24, 2007 9:12 AM

Excellent Bill Moyers and PBS! The subject, still difficult to come to terms with for most whites as well as blacks. Particularly whites who are unwilling to acknowledge the truth. Of course, the larger issue here is indeed the reality that we humans have yet to evolve beyond our brutish and barbaric predispositions as preditory beings. Slavery and modern day slavery is but a clear demonstration of man's own inhumanity to man-kind.

Posted by: Maiysha E. Myshere | November 24, 2007 5:55 AM

This is what TV should be.

Posted by: RICHARD HESSE | November 24, 2007 5:20 AM

BrotherJames Cone's interview was a very delightful illuminating of the certitude of speaking "truth to power." His very example of our prison systems essentially illustrating the crux of the lynching tree is very insightful. Even F. Dostoyevsky said the measurement of a civilization in how it treats is children is next to how it treats its prisoners. Reinhold Niebuhr is a very good example.

Posted by: cg gebhart | November 24, 2007 4:56 AM

As long as we accept the inevitability of hierarchy, there will be victims and victimizers. The vast majority of the labor class in America are not even aware of this. They do not question an economic system which says they are not worth as much as the idiot in the suit. I have a gut feeling that the white guys who direct their anger at other races are victims themselves. They have successfully been fed a mythology that deflects their rage downward. Thank you, Bill Moyers, for posing the difficult questions.

Posted by: Tina | November 24, 2007 4:40 AM

Thanks so much for this engaging and enlightening program. Dr. Cone's analogy of the cross and the hanging tree as symbols that pointed to one one another was a thought provoking perspective. He had wonderful things to say, so I was saddened when he limited slavery to the black prisoners in today's prisons. Slavery is BIG business on the world scale--from human trafficking and the asian sex trade in which small children are forced to work, to african children picking the beans for the chocolate we eat. Not only do we need to be talking to each other in community about what has happened in out country's history but we need to be involved in doing what we can to stand against the slavery that is occuring at this point in time. I can't undo the past, but I can do my part to help others escape the hell of slavery in the present. Some places to start investigating slavery today are the International Justice Mission (ijm.org) and the Not For Sale website. Thanks, Bill Moyers, for giving your viewers television worth watching! ----kcb

Posted by: kcb | November 24, 2007 3:40 AM

Thanks Bill,The interview with Dr.Cone was exquisite.The fact that nooses are surfacing in different public spaces represent a consciousness of symbols of America past and possibly her future.These realities manifest a tension in ones soul that elicit guilt,fear,power and a hideous supression of truth.The perception is delusional and based on what the Germans call Herrenvolk.It was Einstein who said for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.

Posted by: gadfly | November 24, 2007 2:45 AM

In the Fall of 2001, we (all of America) were told we were in a fight for our very lives and that this "War on Terror" would have international repercussions but lead us down a path to domestic tranquility. Since 1619 enslaved Africans and their "freed" descendents have been fighting a "War on Terror", of which the noose and the cross were but two symbols and depending on their uses robbed America of any hope of tranquility, domestic or otherwise. Dr. Cone made an excellent point in that we (All of America) would do well to recognize the bootstrap effort of a hopelessly persecuted people who were able to use the power of one symbol to transcend the destructive power of the other symbol. Perhaps there is a point we can take away from this program. In our willingness to converse, we may not agree on the relevant issues, but at least we are willing to sit together at the same table to continue our debate. Perhaps with that same willingness there is a hope that together we will find a way to define plausible strategies for all that ails our country and the world.

Posted by: Ralph White | November 24, 2007 2:30 AM

The conversation between Bill Moyers and Dr. Cone was brilliant. My wish is that Joseph Campbell could have added his insights. Symbols, whether they be of success, tragedy, oppression - whether representing "good" or "evil" - represent deep seated beliefs and emotions. The meaning and impact of symbols such as the cross and the noose can truly resonate only with those whose cultural roots are grounded in the experience symbolized by the specific objects or images. I don't believe just knowing about something can ever equate with having the cultural connection that engenders the emotional impact. Tonight's show has provided me with much to ponder and, yes, it will drive me to read Dr. Cone and to return to my beloved Joseph Campbell as well.

Posted by: P.A. Lake | November 24, 2007 2:17 AM

Dr. Cone considered slavery America's "original sin". I believe our orginal sin(s) began with the Native Americans...

Posted by: O. Heckart | November 24, 2007 1:18 AM

The powerful grasp that lynching as a historical fact and metaphor of power has is uniquely Black American. Yet, the Cross is transcendent in ways that Cone deploys as a powerful insight. His brilliance reminds us that 32 million Black Americans are truly a global people....in ways that southern whites never were or can be....the lynchers became small and we offspring of the lycnhed--ex-slaves grew in stature. when we then reflect on what it means that the descendants of southern whites wield so much electoral influence thanks to the modern GOP, the irony is overwhelming....southern trees indeed have borne strange fruit. Will the torturers at Abu Ghraib have a legacy that shrinks as well? What fruit does Prez Bush and his war bring for the US--black and white?

Posted by: Marc Clark | November 24, 2007 1:17 AM

I am always offended when I see lynching photos with masses of whites and there is no mention of the fact that almost 100% of the men, women and children present in the photos consider themselves good christians who hear sermons on sundays praising their actions. Why does a discussion of the cross and the lynching tree not look at one of these sermons and ask where christianity went off the rails?

Posted by: Roy Grothe | November 24, 2007 1:16 AM

while obviously lynching, murder, terror etc. etc. are horrible and should be condemned, i think we really need to look more in-depth at the individual noose stories that we've heard so much about lately. from what ive read in the actual local jena newspaper, the noose in that case was probably not directed at black students and has been hyped and brought into the story to try to make the jena 6 look better than they really are. theres a lot of talk that the noose there was actually a joke aimed at the rodeo team and had nothing to do with race! And then im suspicious there was video of the columbia professors door that the police took but then have never said anything. is it that hard to watch a video and see who the culprit was!? there are many many cases (including the duke lacrosse team!!!) of people making up hate crimes because they want to make a point or get attention, and at this point since the story just died I would bet that the Columbia story was just another hoax. James cone seems like a good guy but there are definitely people out there like...

Posted by: mike | November 24, 2007 1:10 AM

I will begin with "WORDS MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE". With this in mind I disagree with Dr. Cone in that some of his points seem to be OVERSIMPLIFIED. Logic causes his point '...that we do not have to know much about Holocaust or Lynching to know what the words mean', seems out of touch with reality. I'm quite certain there are many people of a FULL RANGE OF AGES in this country who do not know what these words imply due to a variety of reasons. Dr. Cone's other point about caucasian and African Americans Needing to come together as Community cannot happen , in my mind, as long as any person or group CONTINUES TO PUT SO MUCH FOCUS ON THEIR DIFFERENCES! ALL individuals will become aware of each others differences in a natural way in the same race or family or country; and each individual will choose how to respond. And continuing to 'LIVE IN THE PAST by repeating History'seems detrimental to creating Community from the Heart in the True sense by staying focused on the Present situation common courtesy and kindness. Dr.Cone's use of the word POWER, in my mind, is connected to FORCE as...

Posted by: Sally E. Nave | November 24, 2007 1:04 AM

i think that it wasn`t stated that alot of lynchings were in the form of capital punishment for crimes comited against the races.that part was left out of course,and what and to hear whp benefits from bringing this up now.its the past water under the bridge.it doesn`t do anybody any good for this era.

Posted by: billy zarcone | November 24, 2007 1:03 AM

A very enlighten show. And yes, the local kcet station in OC California did loose its audio...but I pulled out the lap top and tagged along online...glued from LiL Latin America...Santa Ana California. I have a deep afinity to all that is Black/Afro American, as Ske Ne Bo & his brother Kalvin, taught me English during the first 8 years of my life in Northern Indiana, in our home next to the Baptist Church where it's gosple music introduced me to "world" other than Mexican. We loved each other, I know that now. And we didn't know "race" . Until we left the safety of our yard. Indiana, Mid West...strong KKK history, northern indiana, tons of european immigrants, all "privileged" beyond my black brothers and sisters beyond my latino brothers and sisters. This program spoke the truth. America is not innocent. As we "enjoy" our Thanksgiving leftovers...remember the genocidal roots, not a "mission accomplished" for Native Americans still "exsist"...the U.S. "innocent"... no WAY... we know that, WE Mexican, African, and Native Americans... to "dark" to ever become "privileged"... the dialogue is long overdue, but be sure you are doing your part to make a difference. Good job Mr. Moyers!

Posted by: MZA | November 24, 2007 12:37 AM

It was a horible injustice that happened to the Jews when the Jews were imprisoned in Natzi camps, however they were not forced to build a country for free and rightfully so they were compensated for the wrongs they suffered and continue to be compensated in some form or fashion to this very day. Now, when the Africans were shipped here during the slave trade and forced to build a nation and not only not get paid the promised 40 acres and a mule but upon release, denied education, housing and work. And guess what as part of your freedom you shall be Free to be hung, whipped, raped and tortured and denied the right to exist as your freed counterparts. Fear and ignorance is a lethal cocktail still ever present in America. Yes Blacks kill Blacks just as Whites Kill Whites Hispanics kill Hispanics and so on. Let go of your FEAR-and ask God for understanding. Think of it like this: Two runners are lined up at the start of the 100 meter dash, one Black & one White-just as the runners head for the blocks the line judge says to the White runner YOU will start at the...

Posted by: Angela Robinson | November 24, 2007 12:29 AM

Those who identify with the powerless, as the victums of torture & lynchings...are the victorious beings. They have not surroundered their hearts, minds, Spirits and Souls to hate, to evil as the perpetrators, on whatever part of this earth, past present & future. It will stop as each one does our part to SEE that it DOES! God gives the ultimate power: Love & light in the darkness and that NO ONE can kill!

Posted by: MZA | November 24, 2007 12:19 AM

It's so funny how whenever black people start really discussing their history, specifically slavery, whites instantly digress with all these little hypothetical scenarios and side issues...anything to NOT deal with the actual history at hand. This was a black man talking about black people and the relationship between the noose and the crucifix....nobody is denying that other races were persecuted or that the noose was used as a tool for fear against others....but this conversation was not about that. These posts are a prime example of how each time slavery is brought up and discussed..nobody wants to talk about it! Can we try to keep to the topic at hand, the same way we do when we discuss the Civil war and the Holocaust. Can we not give an examination of slavery that same attention and intensity? As usual, a job well done by Bill Moyers and an excellent discussion.

Posted by: Lisac | November 24, 2007 12:19 AM

While I hesitate to comment (due to my local PBS station in Los Angeles losing the audio of the first 15 minutes of the discussion with Dr. Cone), insufficient data never seems to stop the trolls, who've already done a drive-by, I see... So, instead of making the same old ethnic excuses and slanders couched in philosophical boilerplate over America's racist past (and present), can we all agree that lynching is a primitive activity, conducted by people enraptured by a primitive philosophy handed down and maintained by its adherents? That goes for homophobia, religious bigotry, sexism, and any other socially negative "ism" humans love to wallow in, because humans are still primitives, IMO. Regardless of our technological achievements, spiritually we're still obsessed with territory, hierarchy, and the exercise of power. We're all Fred Flintstone with a laptop and a laser gun, and if I were a self-respecting, civilized alien, I wouldn't come near this backward, polluted planet inhabited by savages, instead, I'd hang a sign outside the solar system: "Beware, Headhunters". Now, until we can all wrap our primitive heads around this simple concept, discussions of "race," whatever the hell that means, will continue to be frustrated and largely unresolved.

Posted by: Larry Winfield | November 24, 2007 12:17 AM

It's so funny how whenever black people start really discussing their history, specifically slavery, whites instantly digress with all these little hypothetical scenarios and side issues...anything to NOT deal with the actual history at hand. This was a black man talking about black people and the relationship between the noose and the crucifix....nobody is denying that other races were persecuted or the noose a tool for fear against others....but this conversation was not about that. These posts are a prime example of how each time slavery is brought up and discussed..nobody wants to talk about it! Can we try to keep to the topic at hand. The way we do when we discuss the Civil war and the Holocaust. Can we not give an examination of slavery that same attention and intensity?

Posted by: Lisac | November 24, 2007 12:15 AM

When your host uses the shame of slavery that turns so many people off. For one thing, as bad and horrible slavery was who would trade places here with anyone from Afica. Anothe thing that erks me is when we focus on the crime of slavery we somehow sanitize the deplorable treatment of the freed slaves from the North. Let us not forget the conditions of the South after the Civil War; the landscape was scorched, the farmland delapitated, try to find a mule, most of them were eaten, try to find a tool, most of them rusted, try to find seed, most of them rotted. With this backdrop of poverty and desolation what did our proud slave-freeing Congress do? They cut off all aide to the freedman except bare medical supplies. Despite all of this the African Americans built schools and found money for teachers. I do not know how but I know why. Because they wanted for their children a way of life so long deprived from them... I cannot say anything so magnificiant of my ancestors, though I wish I could.

Posted by: Terrypat3@aol.com | November 23, 2007 11:40 PM

people, throughout written history, all over the world have been and still are terrorized and or opressed by someone or something. whether by religious fanatics, political factions, family members and even peoples of the same race. it is not just an american dilema. Nor is it just a "white/black" thing. Slavery and opression has affected every race at one time or another. as a so called "white" person,(irsh, french, polish and a couple of others) i feel the same kind of prejudice towards my race as any other race. i see more hatred and opression from within the "black" community towards their own people than i do from "whites". what "white" people are they all talking about anyway? do they remember what the civil war was all about and how many "white" people died for the cause. there will never be an end to prejudice between races untill it ends within the races.

Posted by: j d | November 23, 2007 11:37 PM

Kudos to Mr. Moyers for a absolutely great interview with one of America's distinguished religious scholars and public intellectual, Dr. James Cone. I think that his ideas linking American history, lynchings and religion are very provocative and important to (re)igniting a much-needed critical discourse on race, racial oppression, and racial formation in the 21st century.

Posted by: LaMonte C. Summers | November 23, 2007 11:15 PM

Hi All, I would like to share with you the 13 minute documentary I produced with my 11th Grade U.S. History Class while I was a teacher at McCLymonds H.S. in Oakland Ca. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5766476808794686411 It highlights the use of the "noose" as part of discussion on Reparations. I recently updated it as part of my doctoral research in socio-cultural neuroscience. Please feel free to circulate it.

Posted by: Ron Robinson | November 23, 2007 11:13 PM

Modern nooses are meant to be symbols of fear, which is at the heart of all prejudice, racial and otherwise. They reflect a greater social unrest and uncertainty in Modern America, fueled in part by the Iraq War and the growing gap between rich and poor. Some people feel they must resort to symbols of fear like the noose and traditional scapegoats like the African-American community to regain a sense of personal and social control. (It's also interesting how America is now directing that obsession to its new, large minority - Latin-Americans.)

Posted by: David Winton | November 23, 2007 11:10 PM

You and your guest have done it again--found the human pulse for an important disease and connected the stethoscope to the megaphone! (And literally with Dr. Cone.) It was beautiful, and I hope we can follow what you have helped him to start. Praise God Almighty!

Posted by: Frederick Grose | November 23, 2007 10:59 PM

I have a difficult time taking serious a person whose entire ideology is taken from song lyrics. I would ask Mr. Cone what the role of the black person would be if they were in the majority. If blacks imported white slaves to africa, would they have treated the enslaved whites any better? Why doesn't anyone acknowlege that we fought a civil war in this nation to abolish slavery. Just as in Iraq, it is up to the freed to take advantage of those opportunities provided. Where is the dialogue on self responsibility? 50% of prisoners in the U.S. are black BECAUSE of white people? It is not an issue of race as much as it is and always will be, the dominant and those they dominate. You can not have one without the other. The winners always make excuses and the losers always lay blame.

Posted by: DP | November 23, 2007 10:46 PM

to: Mr. Anthony A. Capobianco thanks for asking what seems a reasonable question but i think its not for you to do. i mean that you merely can't. james baldwin once stated that its impossible for any black person to forget that he is black because of the inevitable self identification of some as, "white". he meant that it is for no person to solve this by relying on these incredible and kind of silly mass descriptors, class, race, et al... however, this should be taken all the way down to the individual level and is more often merely ignored. oh well......

Posted by: donald vance | November 23, 2007 10:42 PM

After having heard Dr. James Cone talk about the nooses, I ask why main media does not also talk about the nooses. Meanwhile, how can I, a white man, do my part in helping black men and women be assured of as much equal rights as I and all other white men and women have?

Posted by: Anthony A. Capobianco | November 23, 2007 10:32 PM

I watched Mr. Cone talk with Bill Moyers and was glad I did. One reason was to see Mr. Cone respond to Moyers question as to how acts of apparent racism could appear near where he lived in the North.Moyers seemed to claim acts of racism were confined to the South but apparently foreign outside of the South. Mr. Cones answer was a bit soft as he gently reminded Moyers that racism exists even outside the South, and perhaps even more so. I have always seen racism portrayed in the media as something practiced only by Southern whites, giving the rest of the world, of all races a free pass.Apparently the only persons guilty off racism are white Southern people. I also enjoyed hear Mr. Cone exclaim" Nothing is the whole story!" This is true as the whole story of lynching should have mentioned that a significant percentage of persons lynched in America where white. Once you know this fact you realize lynching was a more complex story, not just race, not just black and white. Perhaps this fact would encourage more conversations regarding lynching that Mr. Cone would like to see take place, although it might muddy the water...

Posted by: Robb Moffett | November 23, 2007 10:15 PM

I think that there are a number of reasons for the noose. Possibly number one is a kind of expression of how kids torment other kids and look for weaknesses to exploit. A noose it a way to torment someone, to get their goat, make them lose their cool, and intimidate them. So I think that teens may have hit on it to do those things. The second reason, and the reason for the growth and expansion of the noose appearing many places is that there is a certain frustration in the white community with the use of racism as an excuse for the failures of black society. There is a weariness with the exploitation of every so-called racial incident by the leadership of the black community to further their own fame and fortune, and to extort perhaps unearned benefits from overblown offences. The real heroes of the black community are the Bill Cosbys who speak truth to their people, and do no further decieve them into assuming the victim position. One more comment on tonights program: it is too bad that there is no way to arouse the same passion over the death of a black man who is...

Posted by: James Dillner | November 23, 2007 10:12 PM

It puzzled me that the song "Strange Fruit" which was mentioned several times in the beginning of the interview with James Cone was only referred to by the black singer, Billie Holiday and not by its author, a white Jewish school teacher from New York, Abel Meerepol, who viscerally felt the injustice of others and was compelled to write about it. Understanding between races can only be complete when goodness is acknowledged by both sides. Dr. Cone continues to bifurcate America by making pain and suffering uniquely a black experience. One can be proud of one's heritage without doing it at the expense of others.If he can't move on beyond "blackness" and ghettos, then where is his "hope?"

Posted by: Rosaline Horowitz | November 23, 2007 10:08 PM

bill moyers stops being fun. where is god to the blacks who suffered under the oppressions of the age which results in lynching(paraphrase)? okay, bill. if god is love(false), love is an emotion experienced by an individual person in the presence or recognition of a supreme or fundamental value, which is individual and indivisible(unshareable), then love is not to be considered as "present" in any form as it is necessarily intangible. but, love is not god. nor is the "god" to which you refer an entity except in describing the totality of existence. in fact, the word/symbol of god is an almost direct transliteration of the greco/african word/symbol "deity" which means, a discernible principle of interaction between objects. this modern conversational notion, that god is a "very large man", is absurd at every level and in every and all ways. please stop this nonsense about "god". god is the linguistic term which refers to the existant item of reality. not more and never less. god is therefore omnipresent. fools have too often decided to deify their fathers and other authorities, and the notion that god is some superheroic "person" is at best, and worst, the hope that, one day, they...

Posted by: donald vance | November 23, 2007 9:55 PM

Hi Bill, Within the last two months there was a noose placed at a construction site in the area of the jobsite where a black gentleman was working. This construction site was in the suburbs of Pittsburgh (Allegheny County). With the proliferation of these nooses nationwide, it almost seems as if it's part of an organized effort. I just wanted folks to know that it happened here, too. Thanks for the forum, Don Griffith

Posted by: Don Griffith | November 23, 2007 9:53 PM

Brother Cone seems to have forgotten that the meaning of the cross was first discovered by St Paul on the road to Damascus. He did a pretty good job of promoting it, too, but I don't recall that that he divided people by race. Cone also seems to have forgotten that many slavers bought their slaves from other Africans who had already enslaved them, and the fact that more black people in the US and in Africa, even now, are terrorized by other blacks than by anyone else. Last, the attitude about terror that he attaches specifically to Americans has been the same in every primitive society, as for instance, in the Ancien Regime as described by Foucault. It is ironic that a man of the cloth should provoke such outrage that people would want to lynch him, but perhaps that is the failing of evangelicals. It wasn't Martin Luther King's way though.

Posted by: RE Mant | November 23, 2007 9:51 PM

An important new work on this subject is Dr. Sherilynn Ifill's book "On The Courthouse Lawn: Confronting the Legacy of Lynching in the Twenty-First Century", February, 2007,from Beacon Press, Boston.

Posted by: PB Morris | November 23, 2007 9:39 PM

I appreciate that you shared Dr. Cone's lecture. It was inspiring and incisive. I seriously doubt, though, that many people will take the time to absorb it. Keep up the great work! RA

Posted by: Rod Amis | November 23, 2007 2:28 PM

The noose is a cowardly and desperate message. The sender of the message is trying to fill and exorsize a desire to feel more powerfull and superior to someone. This senders prejudices are not limited to race.

Posted by: Alvin R. Jelen | November 23, 2007 11:43 AM

If little children know the meaning of the noose, that knowledge can only come from the words and actions of the adults around them. My seven-year-old daughter was completely mystified the other day by a message etched into a pole next to the bench on which we sat on the square in Oxford, Mississippi. It was a beautiful fall afternoon, and we were taking a few minutes to just sit and watch the passing scene. Out of nowhere, my daughter noticed the message, and as she sounded out words she had never seen or heard before, said to me, "Mama, what does 'Hang all n----rs' mean?" She knew from my reaction that it was something very bad and was worried she had done something wrong in reading the message aloud. I tried my best to answer her questions, but it was almost too much for her to process: a derogatory term she'd never heard, though she's lived in Mississippi her whole life; the fact that someone would write something so incredibly hateful (a swastika was etched below the words); and the knowledge that historically this is something that has been done to people just because of their skin color. We...

Posted by: MK Smith | November 22, 2007 9:15 PM

The message is "Be afraid! ... Keep in your place or this will go around your neck." It has been the American Terrorist's message for centuries. I work with teenagers of all races. They know the meaning of the noose and the burning cross - it is burned into our collective unconscious. Even the little children know.

Posted by: Mick Rogers, LCSW | November 22, 2007 12:56 PM

Bill Moyers Asks: What is the Meaning of the Nooses?

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