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Update: Lobbies' Role In Middle East Peace

(Photo by Robin Holland)

In his conversation with Bill Moyers on the JOURNAL this week, Israel Policy Forum analyst M.J. Rosenberg had the following to say about U.S. policy toward Israel and the Palestinians:

“There are lots of right-wingers, hard-liners in the Jewish community, within the Jewish lobby, that are not comfortable with a Palestinian state or with the United States promoting a Palestinian state... they're involved in politics in both parties... hard-liners in the Jewish community give campaign contributions based on that issue… If you’re virulently anti-Palestinian, you’re anti-Israel, because there’s no peace for Israel, no security for Israel unless there’s security and statehood for the Palestinians. So when people get up there and say ‘no Palestinian state, the Palestinians are terrorists, the Muslims are a terrible threat to us all,’ that jeopardizes Israel’s future.”

What do you think? Do you agree with Rosenberg’s analysis?

  • What policy should the U.S. adopt towards Israel and the Palestinians?

  • To what extent do you think lobbies like the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and Christians United For Israel (CUFI) influence government policy in the Middle East?

  • How do candidates’ relationships with these lobbies and positions regarding Israel and the Palestinians affect your voting decisions?



    *** UPDATE: PBS Ombudsman Michael Getler weighs in at http://www.pbs.org/ombudsman/ ***


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    Comments

    I would like to think that there is no 'grand conspiracy' and no lobby controls our govt. That said, I also know that those who speak up usually get heard. If there is a lobby which has an interest and which constantly speaks up for its interest, it gets heard. Nothing wrong with that. There are monsters on all sides. There are Palestinian hardliners who want to annihilate Israel and there are Israeli hardliners who have successfully portrayed ALL Palestinians as "terrorists" and earned sympathies of Americans by large.

    However, whether there is an influential lobby or not, when laws are passed and when our nation goes to war to protect Israel why do Americans not ask "What is in it for AMERICA?" Do we champion all such causes in the world? Do we go to war with China for Tibetans? Have we attacked India for Kashmiris? Then why do we pick on small oil rich nations (rogue as they may be) for Israel? Do we not care about our economy our domestic issues of healthcare and education. Is Israel more important than fixing our problems. Maybe..maybe it is more important but WHY? can someone explain WHY??

    Thank you for this program and for this discussion.

    And for the record, sometimes the truth is one-sided, there's no need to entertain every quack with a different opinion just for the sake of a different opinion.

    Also for the record, I GUARANTEE that the same people who are posting here saying that this show was biased/one-sided etc. would be singing a different tune chock full of praise had the program be 100% pro AIPAC.


    The number one issue facing the world today is in fact the Israeli - Palestinian crisis, the illegal occupation, the systematic, government sponsored, terrorism by Israel and the unwavering support by the US for all of it. Our political system is virtually owned and operated by special interests and the greatest of these is AIPAC. Terrorism, war, oil prices, American lives lost, are all direct or indirect results of this attrocity and yet our leaders do nothing and the American people are fed nothing but lies about what is really happening. We the voters are virtually helpless and I am concerned that nothing short of massive public outcry will change it, unfortunately it usually has to get much worse before that will happen.

    In Their Own Words- Members of the IDF Speak
    December 11, 2007

    It is important for Americans to remember–and particularly these days when well-paid liars for Israel such as Normon Podhoretz, Daniel Pipes, David Horowitz et al are pushing the entire Western World into armed conflict with those in the Middle East–that the start of the whole affair between America and “terrorism” was not the rise of ‘Islamo-fascism’ that warmongers such as the aforenamed have labeled as being the cause of the problems.

    Rather, it is the history–the well-documented and easily-verifiable history–of unspeakable violence that has been perpetrated everyday for the last century by those under the ungodly, inhuman spell known as Zionism against the peoples of the Middle East, Christian as well as Muslim, violence that rarely (if ever) gets a fair hearing in the Western media.

    Those who make it their business to document and expose Israel’s regularly-occurring viciousness against the peoples of Palestine, Lebanon and elsewhere are usually met with scoffs and contempt by a media in the West for the most part completely within the clutches of Zionist/Jewish interests. While the world is forced to hear about every instance–real or contrived–of someone from the Jewish community suffering a nose bleed or whose ‘dignity has been offended’ by some bigoted remark, at the same time the world is rarely afforded the opportunity of hearing about what takes place in the lives of innocent Arabs–men, women and children–who must suffer under the oppression of a foreign occupier that considers them ‘grasshoppers’ whose ‘heads should be smashed against the wall’, as one former Israeli prime minister once quipped.

    A recent piece appearing in the Guardian of London sparked outrage in the Zionist Jewish community for its brutal frankness concerning the brutal behavior of Israel’s soldiers, inaccurately named the ‘IDF’–meaning Israeli Defense Forces’ towards the Arabs who find themselves in the tragic position of being under their thumb. The piece in question detailed a series of interviews conducted by a psychologist at Hebrew University named Nufar Yishai-Karin with 21 members of the IDF.

    As the reader will see, the members of Israel’s military forces are not the ‘most moral army in the world’ as they are often called by the slavish, sycophant supporters of the political corporation based on gangster principles known as Israel. Rather, as the damning interviews indicate, being one of ‘God’s chosen soldiers’ in Gaza and the West Bank means being tasked with the business of inflicting as much pain, suffering and humiliation upon the Christians and Muslims there as possible so as to eventually make them leave, resulting in the racially-pure ‘Eretz Y’Israel’ that Zionism demands. Reprinted below–in their own words–are the remarks of just a few members of the IDF describing what life is like for the Arabs living in the Occupied Territories, a mere smattering of the truth that Americans–and particularly American Christians–never read or hear about, neither from their news media nor their well-paid and over-fed preachers.

    ‘The truth? When there is chaos, I like it. That’s when I enjoy it. It’s like a drug. If I don’t go into Rafah, and if there isn’t some kind of riot once in some weeks, I go nuts…’

    ‘The most important thing is that it removes the burden of the law from you… You are the law…The moment you leave the place that is called Eretz Yisrael [the Land of Israel] and go through the Erez checkpoint into the Gaza Strip, you are the law. You are God…’

    ‘We were in a weapons carrier when this guy, around 25, passed by in the street and, just like that, for no reason - he didn’t throw a stone, did nothing - bang, a bullet in the stomach, we shot him in the stomach and the guy is dying on the pavement and we keep going, apathetic. No one gave him a second look…’

    ‘With women I have no problem with violence…One threw a shoe at me and I kicked her here [pointing to the crotch], I broke everything there. She can’t have children. Next time she won’t throw shoes at me. When one of them spat at me, I gave her the rifle butt in the face. She doesn’t spit anymore…’

    Another instance recounted by the psychologist conducting the interviews described an occasion where the soldiers were escorting some arrested Palestinians. The arrested men had been taken from their beds in the middle of the night and were barely clothed, even though the temperature was below zero. The new recruits trampled on the Palestinians and then beat them for the whole of the journey. They opened the bus windows and poured water on the arrested men from their canteens.

    As the testimonies prove, the brutality is not limited to grown men and women. In one instance, a soldier recounts something he witnessed while on patrol–

    “It’s 6am, Rafah is under curfew, there isn’t so much as a dog in the streets. Only a little boy of four playing in the sand. He is building a castle in his yard. Our officer suddenly starts running and we all run with him. He grabs the boy and breaks his hand here at the wrist and his leg here. Then he started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left…The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing.”

    These short, small-in-number testimonies from ‘Israel’s finest’ are but microscopic testimonies to a version of the truth that the world rarely hears, if ever, and despite the fact that they are things that have appeared more recently, what the world should remember is that it is but the tip of an iceberg that has existed for nearly a century now. And let not the world make the mistake of thinking that it is limited to the ramblings of a few nobodies in the IDF, when considering the words of Ariel Sharon, the Butcher of Beirut, war criminal and the monster that George Bush once referred to as a ‘man of peace’–

    “…I encourage my soldiers to rape Arabic girls, since the Palestinian woman is a slave for the Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do…”

    –or a diary entry from –‘Moshe,’ a Second Lieutenant in the Israeli army–

    “…I took the Palestinian girl captive. On the first night the soldiers pack-raped her and the next day I saw fit to remove her from the world. I had the soldiers dig a shallow grave, and then I killed the 12 year-old girl with a burst from a sub-machine gun.”

    –or the remarks of Christopher Hedges, American journalist on assignment in Gaza–

    “……The Israeli soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the American M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children’s slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos. Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight young men, six of who were under the age of eighteen. This afternoon they killed an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more, three of who are under eighteen. Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered, but never before have I watched as soldiers enticed children like mice into a trap and murdered them for sport.”

    And it is precisely this last thing, ‘murdering people for sport’ and sadism of the Zionists that is the reason for American men and women dying in Iraq and Afghanistan today and–barring some miracle–why they will be dying in Iran and Syria tomorrow.

    2007 Mark Glenn

    nomorewarsforisrael@yahoo.com

    www.crescentandcross.com

    Article originally appeared in American Free Press newspaper

    www.americanfreepress.net

    Posted by crescentandcross Filed in Uncategorized
    One Response to “In Their Own Words–Members of the IDF Speak”

    1. In Their Own Words–Members of the IDF Speak « The Politically Correct Apostate Says:
    December 11, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    […] A recent piece appearing in the Guardian of London sparked outrage in the Zionist Jewish community for its brutal frankness concerning the brutal behavior of Israel’s soldiers, inaccurately named the ‘IDF’–meaning Israeli Defense Forces’ towards the Arabs who find themselves in the tragic position of being under their thumb. The piece in question detailed a series of interviews conducted by a psychologist at Hebrew University named Nufar Yishai-Karin with 21 members of the IDF. Read the rest at the Uglytruth […]

    Here's more on the mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's words:

    http://peoplesgeography.com/2007/01/19/irans-president-did-not-say-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/

    It is rather interesting to learn that the mistranslation originated with Iran's own official news agency, the Islamic Republic News Agency.

    Mr. Ricci needs to wake up to the truth which has only begun to be heard on the airwaves.

    Our country has become a debtor nation, our people ashamed of their leaders, our youth dying or maimed - all for the benefit of Israel.

    Israel has spied on us, attacked our ships, stolen our secrets and now controls our government policy through their lobby.

    ENOUGH

    PBS gets funding from CPB and because of that, under Federal Statute PBS must have "strict adherence to objectivity and balance in all programs or series of programs of a controversial nature."

    So by that very definition and Bill Moyers' Journal (November 30th) unbalanced, highly biased against Israel report, PBS has violated the Federal Law. Not only that, but that kind of "reporting" has tainted PBS's journalistic integrity. Whether Bill Moyers (who claims to be a Christian by the way) or PBC believes it or not, the Jews are a religious people and they have been given Israel as their homeland. This is history and the title deed is the Bible given to them by God. Now you may have an ulterior motive or maybe PBS is secretly getting Islamic oil incentives. But whatever it is, in the long run, this will cost PBS. Groups like the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) and interested people like me will not watch this garbage called "journalism" and we will spread the word about this. We will blow the whistle and by word of mouth the truth about PBS's real agenda will come out. A new year is upon us and PBS has a choice. Stop the lies, propaganda and biased anti-Semitic reporting and get back to the telling the unbiased truth. Or continue and lose viewership and financial support.

    PBS gets funding from CPB and because of that, under Federal Statute PBS must have "strict adherence to objectivity and balance in all programs or series of programs of a controversial nature."

    So by that very definition and Bill Moyers' Journal (November 30th) unbalanced, highly biased against Israel report, PBS has violated the Federal Law. Not only that, but that kind of "reporting" has tainted PBS's journalistic integrity. Whether Bill Moyers (who claims to be a Christian by the way) or PBC believes it or not, the Jews are a religious people and they have been given Israel as their homeland. This is history and the title deed is the Bible given to them by God. Now you may have an ulterior motive or maybe PBS is secretly getting Islamic oil incentives. But whatever it is, in the long run, this will cost PBS. Groups like the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) and interested people like me will not watch this garbage called "journalism" and we will spread the word about this. We will blow the whistle and by word of mouth the truth about PBS's real agenda will come out. A new year is upon us and PBS has a choice. Stop the lies, propaganda and biased anti-Semitic reporting and get back to the telling the unbiased truth. Or continue and lose viewership and financial support.


    “TREASON ON THE HIGH SEAS”
    December 9, 2007

    As I sit in my office beginning to write my first article for American Free Press newspaper, I look out my window. I see snow covered peaks, nature at its best in Colorado. It calms me to see such beauty and thank God I’m alive with my family. As I start to write, my heart is beginning to race, my palms are sweating. I’m not as comfortable as I was just a few moments ago. I know all of you know the story of the attack on our ship, the USS LIBERTY, by the government of Israel, but it needs to be repeated.

    June 8, 1967 I was a 20 year old 3rd class petty officer in damage control at the time of this sneak attack from our so-called ally, Israel. We were identified as American and friendly many hours before the slaughter began at 2:00 P.M.

    The Israeli jet aircraft were ruthless and stubborn in their attempt to sink and murder all hands aboard. They hit every antennae on our ship, no accident for sure. The Israeli reconnaissance aircraft took pictures of our ship in the morning hours, nothing was missed. The attacking aircraft dropped napalm on the bridge of our ship to burn us alive.

    Soon after the jets were done with us we see 3 motor torpedo boats approaching our ship at a high rate of speed. We then learned who our attackers were.

    We saw 3 flags marked with the Star of David. We were in shock because the Israelis were supposed to be our allies! We had had no idea who was attacking us until then. The attacking jet aircraft were unmarked. The torpedo boats maneuvered themselves into a torpedo launch attitude, now come the 5 to 6 torpedoes. The captain was doing his best to maneuver the ship to avoid sudden death. The torpedoes whizzed by our ship, forward and aft with 1 hitting its mark, almost dead mid-ships, blowing to bits 25 American heroes who stood their ground below the water line and accepted their fate, doing their duty for the United States Government.

    The torpedo gunboats were not even close to being done with us. The torpedo gunmen shot at our fire fighters and stretcher bearers, anything that moved. They were shooting at our water line to blow up the boilers inside and finish the job of sinking us.

    The captain had given the order to abandon ship, as it appeared we were about to roll over. There were 3 life rafts left that were floatable. We put them over the side so we could put our most severely wounded in them to try to save their lives. The torpedo gunmen would have none of that and blew 2 of them out of the water. They took the 3rd raft aboard their boat, seeing it as an obvious trophy for all their hard work. The torpedo gunmen continued their assault until I guess they ran out of ammunition. They circled the ship and left.

    Old Glory was still on her mast, 7’ x 13’ holiday colors. We thought the attack was over. Two Israeli helicopters approached our ship with armed gunmen at the ready to finish us off. They were there a short time and left in the same direction they came. We had no idea why they didn’t shoot at us. We wondered if they were finally done with their murderous carnage on a virtually unarmed ship which only had 4 50 caliber machine guns that had been taken out by the jets on the first pass when the attack began.

    Little did the crew know that Terry Halbardier, an ET, got off an SOS from an antennae that was not hit by the Israeli heat seeking missiles because it was taken off line due to a malfunction before the attack. The SOS he sent stated we were under attack by unknown jet aircraft. This message was sent out within 15 minutes of the attack and was picked up by the USS SARATOGA and the USS AMERICA. Captain Tully of the USS SARATOGA sent ready aircraft to our aid only to have them recalled. The USS AMERICA also sent rescue aircraft to come to our aid. These life saving planes were recalled not once but twice. These orders came straight from the White House, first from Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and then from President Johnson himself. Johnson said he was not about to attack our “ally”, Israel. How did he know who was attacking our ship when we didn’t even know? Help did not arrive until 18 hours later when the American rescue aircraft could have been there in 15 to 20 minutes driving off the torpedo boats and saving precious American lives.

    What remained was a ship with a 40 x 40 foot torpedo hole in her side, 821+ canon and rocket holes, thousands of rounds of fifty caliber armor piercing bullets and napalm that had been burning up our ship. Thirty four American souls were murdered, 173 were wounded, which constituted attempted murder, out of a crew of 294. Two thirds of the crew had been murdered or wounded.

    Israel and our government, in this 2 hour attack, had come up with a plan to sink our ship, blame it on Egypt and bring the U.S. into the Six Day War. If this so called accident was so cut and dry, why were all records sealed tighter than Fort Knox? Israel got by with cold-blooded murder and other war crimes and it’s only a matter of time until they do it again, perhaps on a ship off the coast of Iran. Israel controls America’s fate and our elected officials bow to their every whim.

    I love my country and will not stand by and let this continue. While there is time, we must do what we can to save our sinking ship of state. In many ways, America today is the USS Liberty after that 2 hour attack taking place 40 years ago. We are badly hit and stand the chance of sinking into the abyss with everyone being lost forever unless something is done immediately. Write your president and congressmen and let them know you know what is going on and you will not fight anymore for Israel. Israel has 300 nukes, so let them take care of themselves. There is nothing, neither in the Middle East nor elsewhere, that is worth one more drop of precious American blood.

    The leaders of our country who swore an oath to protect this nation ordered the survivors of the LIBERTY to never repeat this piece of history under penalty of jail or worse. 40 years ago, another nation got away with cold-blooded murder on the high seas, and as an American veteran, let me say this for the record–NO ONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO GET BY WITH COLD-BLOODED MURDER, AND ESPECIALLY NOT ISRAEL, NOT THEN AND NOT NOW.

    The USS LIBERTY VETERANS ASSOCIATION is offering $10,000.00 to anyone who can disprove that our story is the truth. as of this moment, no one from the pro-Israeli crowd has accepted the challenge.

    2007 By Phil Tourney, survivor of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty

    Israel has nuclear weapons but refuses to join the International Atomic Energy Agency's oversight program, whereas Iran is a member state and has routine inspections. Which of these two countries presents a greater threat to world peace: Iran that has been attacked, but has not attacked anyone-or Israel who has attacked almost every nation in the Middle-East at one time or another-not to mention their attack on the USS Liberty during LBJ's watch, in which Israel knowingly tried to sink that US spy- ship in the waters off the Israeli coast.

    Mentioning the word or calling one antisemitic is a canard and tactic of Jews to stop all debate on Israel and any and all criticism of Israel.
    It's to stop all discussions of what Israel has been doing..from their flagrant UN resolutions, to it's endless relentless policies of the slow genocide of the Palestinians..
    It's all a clever ploy by Israeli's and their Diaspora supporters, to allow Israel to continue with it's agenda. The Agenda of confiscation of all Palestinian lands, walling them into mini concentration camps, denying them any and all human services, while constructing and denying the obvious Apartheid system.
    Doing it all right under our noses, and in our faces. And to top it all off, having every American complicit in their diabolical scheme.
    Every American is paying for their genocide with their tax dollar's, loan guarantees, tax exempt Jewish Charities and the endless foreign aid and so called arms agreements...

    So don't ever mention antisemitism again in any context when we discuss Israel.
    ...I WONT STAND FOR IT and neither should any AMERICAN!


    I don't agree with Rosenberg...I agree with Mearsheime and Walt's book on the Israeli Lobby...

    Over 75 percent of the American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan want out right now! The majority of American citizens want the troops out of Iraq also. What are "our representatives" in Congress doing? They are ignoring US! That's because Israel, the Israeli Lobby, AIPAC, and the Jewish owned and operated media shilling for Israel, are all wielding a power over this once-great nation grossly disproportionate to their numbers. What the fools in Congress, as well as the American fools classified as dispensationalist Christian fundamentalists, fail to come to grips with, is that the interests and the well-being of America and its people are no longer in the equation that balanced out the United States as the greatest nation on Earth.

    How can the small Jewish nation of Israel, a nation of only slightly more than six million in population, a number only three fourths the population of New York City or the tiny state of New Jersey, be considered as having world domination on their agenda? Supported by six to ten million Jews in the United States, the exact number not being available thanks the manipulation of the US Government census by the Jewish lobby, AIPAC, the total therefore uncertain, Israeli citizens are now in charge of and in control of the Pentagon. The Jewish lobby controls our politicians, and the Jewish media protects Bush and spreads Israeli propaganda. But even if we were to stretch the Jewish population to its maximum estimates, their numbers still do not justify their magnified power. Fortune magazine placed AIPAC as the second most powerful lobby in Washington and right behind AARP.

    http://www.rense.com/general70/rules.htm

    check out this letter to the editor in the chicago sun times. you can't call everyone who speaks the truth about israel anti-semitic, folks.

    Muddying Mideast issues

    Congratulations to Steve Huntley for his column, ''Red-hot anger could warm Mideast relations'' [Tuesday]. It isn't easy to write a half-page piece on the Israeli-Palestinian situation without once using the words ''occupation,'' ''settlements'' or ''refugees.'' Perhaps as a follow-up, Huntley could write an article on the Titanic that omits the words ''iceberg'' and ''drowning.''

    That would be no more puzzling to readers than this piece, which claims to discuss the current negotiations, yet excludes the real issues and relevant history.

    According to Huntley, ''The Jewish state grabbed the opportunity [in 1948] to build a prosperous democracy. The Palestinians, goaded on by Arab rejection- ists, condemned themselves and their children to misery in the cause of terrorism.'' But Israeli ''democracy'' does not extend to the millions of Palestinians of the occupied territories, who have experienced only oppression, dispossession and humiliation at the hands of the Jewish state. And considering that Israel has jailed one-third of the elected members of the Palestinian parliament, the wonder is that Palestinian institutions function at all.

    Huntley says that Israel's prime minister ''represents a people who yearn for peace, who will seize the moment if a realistic opportunity materializes.'' He also represents a nation that governs the West Bank by armed might and has appropriated much of the land and water for its own flagrantly illegal settlements. Everyone wants peace, but the question is on whose terms -- occupants or conquerors?

    Until the Israelis acknowledge the grievances of their Arab cousins and their own role in creating this mess, nothing can change.

    Blame-the-victim articles like this one may muddy the political and human issues at stake but can't make them disappear.

    Hugh Iglarsh,

    Skokie

    Bill Moyers seems to ignore the basic truths about the Middle East. Israel is the only friend we have in the whole region. The day that we support Palestinian terrorists who danced on 9-11, instead of democratic Israelis who share our values of human rights, freedom of speech, religion and assembly, we will be inviting Islamofascists to take over this country. Appeasement will only encourage them to destroy Western civilization. The Palestinians are corrupt and espouse a culture of death. They say one thing to us in English and another altogether in Arabic. They cannot accept Jews or Christians in their midst. Their rejection of peaceful overtures by Israel proves that.

    Bill Moyers seems to ignore the basic truths about the Middle East. Israel is the only friend we have in the whole region. The day that we support Palestinian terrorists who danced on 9-11, instead of democratic Israelis who share our values of human rights, freedom of speech, religion and assembly, we will be inviting Islamofascists to take over this country. Appeasement will only encourage them to destroy Western civilization. The Palestinians are corrupt and espouse a culture of death. They say one thing to us in English and another altogether in Arabic. They cannot accept Jews or Christians in their midst. Their rejection of peaceful overtures by Israel proves that.

    Shakespeare remains the greatest genius on human character and he concluded: "Fiend, a kind of Devil. Certainly, the Jew is the very devil incarnation" This fully answers the horrors of the Middle East from Abraham. Only the devil reqires a chosen race to do his evil.

    Bill Moyers:

    How disappointed we are. While so many journalists are biased and editorialize as they report the news, we had always looked to you as fair, professional and fact-driven. Sadly, we were wrong.

    You have misjudged and mistaken Israel's need to maintain critical portions of the West Bank and you stoop so low as to equate Israel's security needs as aggrandizement-selfishness. Well, if Al Qaida (God forbid)occupied D.C., we would see that security is a far cry from selfishness.

    The security fence, Bill, is just that--a way of deterring murderers from killing innocent children in their beds. And as you rightly quoted, the Palestinians say, "We will not give up one grain of the land of Palestine, and we will never recognize Israel." And if you read the Old Testasment, our Bible, you will note that God told the Israelites that "There is a stict religious ban on giving parts of the land of Israel to foreigners, our sworn enemies."

    AIPAC as Extremists-- Heck, no. Our people have been murdered and driven out of every Arab land that they lived in. Where can they go? If the West Bank and Israel, a minute portion of the middle east, is not secure for them, what will be?

    Further, you made no mention of the gangs of war mongering and murderous Palestinian factions still shelling Israelis.
    You whitewashed Abbas' role in this aggression and ignore it as irrelevant.

    Equally unforgiveable is your blanket criticism of AIPAC and CUFI. And without even allowing either of them to speak on your program-- trial without jury. This segment clearly places the blame for conflict on Israel and American lobbyists. You imply that Muslim extremists are reactive in their terrorism not proactive and aggressive.

    It is disgraceful that you accuse those groups that defend Jewish lives in the middle east as radical and incendiary. They may be our only deterrent against a modern day Holocaust. Consider that.

    Well, I and many others are not intimidated to talk out. It is now apparent that you and your biased cohorts may well be layng the dangerous groundwork for a future genocide. Consider that. Hitler beat the drums with statements that aroused suspicion and blame-laying. By so doing, he agitated the depression-ruined German and Austrian peoples. That is how public opinion becomes mob rule and violence. Caution. Public opinion is moldeable and can be swayed even to bestiality during hard times.

    It is entirely justified that AIPAC build close bonds between the United States and Israel because we all share values of democracy, freedom and equality. Contries fair less democratic maintian their lobby groups here - you know that. Who blames them for conflict?

    Kindlly tell Mr. Sider that carving up Israel into indefensible land strips will not, will not, solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or ease conflict between the US and the Muslim world. APPEASEMENT TO BULLIES DOES NOT WORK. We remember that.

    Let's face the truth: Palestinian leaders have exploited and continue to exploit the conflict as a useful tool to distract their people from their lack of freedoms and progress in Gaza and the camps.

    Bill, invite AIPAC and CUFI in and conduct a well-balanced and fair interview. Perhaps then you can redeem your objectivity in our eyes. Until then, your reportage raises serious question about content reliability and honesty.

    Thank you.

    CUFI and their ilk are utterly mad. And not only mad but completely ignorant of any history outside of their Bible. I bet CUFI regards the NIE on Iran to be some sneaky work by Iran to hide their true, nefarious, plan to murder us and Israel. It is so weird and disturbing to hear these Americans dictate with such arrogance the future of people thousands of miles away. This is why our next president must not believe God ordained him or her to be president or believes anything close to that.

    i do laugh...
    sarah is entirely correct, though i have not followed her link. i am somewhat gratified to see that no one has made the antisemitic argument as yet, but i await...
    donald vance
    ::spvix::

    Thank Goodness for Bill Moyers and people like him who strive for Peace! This is a complex issue and only an unthinking person can label one side as "good" or "evil", "innocent" or "guilty", "chosen" or "damned". Israel has for far too long gotten a free pass while the Palestinian people have languished under oppression. I'd be a little "upset" too. We should try understanding that rage and retaliation are sometimes the only language - the only currency - a desperate people believe that they have. It does not justify murder, but Israel holds the economic and military power and only a fool would fail to see how they have used it to hold an entire group of people down. (Same way that "minorities" here in the U.S. are held back . . . no educational or economic opportunity, foster a kill or be killed environment and then put hordes of them in prison, make drugs and alcohol VERY readily accessible . . . then sit back and tell everyone who will listen what BAD people they are; how LAZY and DUMB they are; how they have NO FAMILY VALUES as attested to by the fact that their children grow up without fathers . . .)

    We need to start using our minds and our hearts when viewing the world and our own communities. It's about time that we stop allowing our views to be formed by those in power who profit from our unwillingness to think and feel for ourselves. They are masters at getting us to agree with whatever suits their bottom line, remember Sadam and 9/11?

    The Palestinians have legitimate grievances, it's about time we begin to listen and help all parties concerned. And while we're at it, maybe we can do the same thing here at home.

    By the way, our tax dollars and contributions to PBS could not be better spent than in support of Rational Voices in media.

    This discussion on Israel was classic Bill Moyers. The format of the show is the same regardless of the topic. He takes a position on an issue and delivers only one side for the first half of the show. Next he has two "experts" who agree with his position and the three of them all give the same side of the story. This is what passes for legitimate debate on his show. Tragically, taxpayers are having to fund this one sided advocacy on PBS. Moyers could not get any of his programs shown on another network, only PBS considers him a journalist.

    The idea that there are really a "palestinian people" other than the Jewish people is absurd! Get some REAL history! Go to:
    http://hirhome.com
    get some REAL perspective and STOP
    being racists!

    Bill Moyers program on the role of lobbies in the Middle East (30 Nov) was one-sided, and slanted against, Israel -as well as AIPAC. There was no opportunity given to AIPAC to counter M J Rosenberg's allegations and contradictions - or those of Mr. Moyers himself.

    Mr. Moyers equated Palestinian and Israeli radicals. The former aim to destroy Israel and expel or kill all the Jews. The overwhelming majority of Israeli radicals want nothing more than to be allowed to live in all parts of the Holy Land.

    I urge PBS to balance Moyers' diatribe. It is not any "lobby" that is preventing peace. It is the culture of vengeance and victimhood that pervades the Arab world. Every Israeli territorial concession has only exacerbated attacks, and heightened the ambitions of militants - as in Gaza, or with Hezbollah.

    I urge PBS to stop deligitimizing Israel, and to tell the story of Jewish refugees from Arab lands. More than half of all Israelis are descendants of Jewish refugees from Arab lands. Israel uplifted them, while Arab lands kept (and still keep) descendants of a similar number of Arab refugees stateless. Israel has been punished for uplifting Jewish refugees from Arab lands. In contrast, Arab lands have been rewarded with sympathy and billions of dollars of UNWRA and EU aid for their cynical manipulation of the refugee issue. This hypocrisy is all the more striking because Arab lands started and maintained the wars.

    Bill Moyers program on the role of lobbies in the Middle East (30 Nov) was one-sided, and slanted against, Israel -as well as AIPAC. There was no opportunity given to AIPAC to counter M J Rosenberg's allegations and contradictions - or those of Mr. Moyers himself.

    Mr. Moyers equated Palestinian and Israeli radicals. The former aim to destroy Israel and expel or kill all the Jews. The overwhelming majority of Israeli radicals want nothing more than to be allowed to live in all parts of the Holy Land.

    I urge PBS to balance Moyers' diatribe. It is not any "lobby" that is preventing peace. It is the culture of vengeance and victimhood that pervades the Arab world. Every Israeli territorial concession has only exacerbated attacks, and heightened the ambitions of militants - as in Gaza, or with Hezbollah.

    I urge PBS to stop deligitimizing Israel, and to tell the story of Jewish refugees from Arab lands. More than half of all Israelis are descendants of Jewish refugees from Arab lands. Israel uplifted them, while Arab lands kept (and still keep) descendants of a similar number of Arab refugees stateless. Israel has been punished for uplifting Jewish refugees from Arab lands. In contrast, Arab lands have been rewarded with sympathy and billions of dollars of UNWRA and EU aid for their cynical manipulation of the refugee issue. This hypocrisy is all the more striking because Arab lands started and maintained the wars.

    I understand that Moyer wants peace in the Holy Land. There were meetings in Oslo, Cairo, Wye, Sharm-el-Sheikh, Camp David 2 and so on. All failed. We have the radical left in the USA and UK suggest a "one" state solution. Academics all over the world spend increasing time to tell their students what their personal vision is. People who sit in Oregon, Los Angeles or Boston preach what needs or need not to be done in Israel and Palestine. Journalist creat self serving programs throwing accusations against Israel and her right to defend self. The continuos meddling in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict by governments, NGO, organizations and individuals who do not have direct knowledge of the conflict, have concomitant agenda, find it necessary to write, speak and rant. It is time for the Israeli and Palestinians to be left alone. They have to create an infrastructure, a concensus, a philosophy that is unique to them. They live there, breath there, sweat there, not the thinkers of Europe or the USA. Peace cannot be imposed, it is a natural continuous process that cannot be resolved by instant and dramatic measures. Think: what if there would have been a conference in China about adnexation of Texas to Mexico? Lastly, those who suffer most from this over reaction to Palestinian-Israel conflict are the hundreds of thousands in Darfur who are not discussed and they should be discussed, who are getting no attention from the world. So, please, be patient with the Holy Land and let those who live there find a solution to secure for a "long and lasting peace". Leave them alone. I. Barr MD, 6209 Dakota circle, Bloomfield Hills, Mi 48301. Tel 1248 5154760. driheart@aol.com

    I think that it would be better for all sides if there were peace. Of course, peace would be a huge bonanza for Israel, which is one reason why Israel's opponents often wish to deny it peace and why Israel can be so tempted by manifestly bogus offers of peace.

    I think it is a mistake to support aggressors, and that includes support for Arab aggression against Israel. In addition, I think we need to focus more on truth and less on taking sides in tribal squabbles.

    It was not anti-German to be against the National Socialists. And it was not anti-Arab to be against Arafat.

    Some people think that the United States is making a bad impression by defending human rights for Jews in the Levant. I disagree. I think the United States ought to support human rights for everyone, including the Jews of the Levant.

    Frightening when bill moyers contributes to the anti Israel divisive dialog. Also shocking that his listeners attribute the Iranian President's anti Semitism to a translation problem. Very strange times.

    All major palestinian arab groups say clearly that their claim is all of Israel, NOT 'settlements',
    but you either don't want viewers to know that, or you are too obtuse to realize it yourself.

    keep this secret:

    Summer Camp in Gaza Teaches Uncompromising Message - Nidal al-Mughrabi (Reuters)

    Summer camp for Palestinian children in Gaza isn't all swimming and soccer. At the Hamas camp, attended by 60 children, organizer Hussein al-Talaa said the message was uncompromising.
    "We teach them...that we reject any partition of (Palestine), whether through agreements or by force."

    If my Grandmother only knew that I was a right wing, hard line member of an all powerful lobby group known as AIPAC, she would be amazed.
    The fact is, I am an ordinary American woman who supports Israel and express my feelings in a positive way to my state and national representatives. It's called DEMOCRACY!

    Dear Mr. Moyers,

    I feel that you have maligned these two pro-Israel lobbying groups in an unfair way in which you did not allow them to show their point of view adequetley.

    Please be more mindful next time to not be biast, because I feel that this time your show was of a lower quality than it typically is.

    CUFI and AIPAC were characterized as obstacles to peace. Why not invite someone from CUFI or AIPAC to join the discussion, to have a true give and take? I think that Moyers abdicated the role of a fair host. He was not objective.

    Bill again shows his one sided anti-Israel bias. This was a hit job. The anti-Jewish posts show that Moyers is attracting the viewership of bigots and worse. They deserve each other. How we spend tax dollars on this PBS hit job is beyond me.

    How do CUFI supporters reconcile their support of Zionism with the messiah issue? As far as I know, Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the messiah, and many Jews believe that he's not. Then there are the Lubavitchers who have their own take. Shouldn't the CUFI-ers be converting to Judaism?

    Who's right? Who's wrong? Who cares? But for their political influence, especially with the current Moron-In_Chief, CUFI would be regarded as just another nutty offshoot of Christianity.

    israeli diplomats and administrators have good reason to tell the truth and to lie...


    Israeli officials reject U.S. findings on Iran

    By Dion Nissenbaum, McClatchy Newspapers Tue Dec 4, 1:29 PM ET

    JERUSALEM — Israeli officials, who've been warning that Iran would soon pose a nuclear threat to the world, reacted angrily Tuesday to a new U.S. intelligence finding that Iran stopped its nuclear weapons development program in 2003 and to date hasn't resumed trying to produce nuclear weapons.
    ADVERTISEMENT

    Defense Minister Ehud Barak directly challenged the new assessment in an interview with Israel's Army Radio, and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the new finding wouldn't deter Israel or the United States from pressing its campaign to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapons capability.

    AIPAC is a powerful lobby because its goals match the values and goals of most Americans. Israel and America both value democracy, freedom, pluralism, and accountability. America absolutely should side with democratic Israel over the thuggish, extremist Palestinian Authority. It is ludicrous to encourage America to be "even-handed" between a civilized, functioning democracy, and a divided, chaotic terror-state that encourages its children to hate the U.S. and Israel. When the Palestinians finally turn away from extremism and bigotry and toward coexistence and moderation, only then will peace for both Arab and Jewish children be possible.

    The conflict has never been about where to draw the border between Israel and a newly created Palestinian country. The conflict exists because of Arab and Muslim supremacist beliefs and the Arabs/Muslims' rejection of a non-Muslim state (Israel) in their region of the world. The question for them isn't how much land they want Israel to give up, but whether Israel should exist at all.

    Israel and the Jews have always been willing to accept a two state solution - a Jewish country and an Arab country living side by side in peace. This doesn't mean agreeing to live side by side with the Arab state continuing to indoctrinate its kids to hate Israel and Jews, and continuing to do all it can to terrorize and destroy Israel.

    Take a look at the anti-Christian, anti-Western, anti-Jewish bigotry being deliberately taught and spread in the Palestinian Authority areas and other Arab countries..go to www.pmw.org.il and www.memritv.org and judge for yourself. It's impossible for a thinking person to take the Arab claims of peaceseeking seriously, when they continue to foster the most crude kinds of bigotry and hatred in their media, mosques and schools.

    Sir, I think you missed the heart of the subject when discussing Anapolis. Any deal struck with Abbas is likely to be viewed by half the Palestinians as a sellout since it ignores role Hamas plays for them. I don't believe the "radicals" have the last word, America does. We always dictate the terms of progress. Also, I think you and your guests got off topic. Dismissing a bigot like Hagee is a perilous decision, even if he's sunk his teeth into even one Senator, Representative, or Presidential Nominee it's a terrifying prospect to have someone on the national stage legitamizing those views.

    Bill, we always enjoy your show, and this one was great. This was not a new thing to me or my husaband. I have been writing about fundamentalism and its dangers for a while. My only question is why did you not have a Muslim on the panel? It would seem that their imput would have been useful.

    The European and American Jewish population that came to Palestine in the first half of the 20th century, conquered the Palestinian Arab population from the lands now called "Israel". The Jews expelled hundreds of thousands of Arabs and stole their lands--among other great crimes.

    When I say "Israel" I am referring to a geographical area-- an area of space that was occupied by a large indigenous population before the invasion by people of this Jewish ethnic group.

    Now, almost 60 years after the establishment of a government by these Jewish invaders, the Israelis want the world to acknowledge the legitimacy and permanence of their government.

    I don't accept it. I think it was a collossal mistake, and it is time that the world *stop* allowing these tragic conquests of one people by another. It is furthermore, time the world develop standards of law for reparations to *all* vanquished peoples, to settle *all* disputed property claims.

    I don't accept the propaganda of U.S. media, that the Jews and Arabs have been at war for 1000 years, and nothing can be done about it. The Arabs are no more (or less) warlike or unreasonable than anybody else.

    I think the people who are living on stolen lands, every one of them, with all their false title deeds, need to be put into a courtroom or judicial procedure with the previous owners of their particular land, one by one until they come to a settlement with those real owners- i.e. prior to 1948. We would do no less for Americans in the same situation. If a bunch of yay-hoos attacked some rural region in America, and shot and killed thousands of people and stampeded them all off the lands, to quote the words of Pres. George Bush in 1991 (following the Kuwait invasion), "This will not stand".

    A country that behaves in such complete hypocrisy as the U.S. invites the scorn and hostility of all peoples. It is time we live up to our principles. I find it quite ironic that the same rightwinters who are always touting our glorious country, are so unaware and unfaithful to our deepest principles-- a rule of law and basic values-- justice, and the equality and fairness to all people.

    The way out of this nightmare is let go of the "Stateness" of Israel. Admit the truth. Admit the unthinkable.

    This is not to endorse or wish any violence on the Jewish people. I think I hear Ahmadinejad, saying the same thing I'm saying. Because that entity created in 1948 is not legitimate, and their actions have been wrong and the only way forward is to roll back those actions. Roll back the tape, and set things right. Don't tell me "Too many years have gone by:" The world has been telling Israel this ever since 1948. Now major arbitration and reparations are due-- Within a one-state entity and a strict rule of law. Call it "the big tent solution".

    Todd

    stunning...well, maybe not.
    MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Okay, another perspective.

    "The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel's interest in a peace process, other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo, has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff, Moshe Yaalon, is 'to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people.'"

    Henry Siegman is the director of the U.S. Middle East Project at the Council on Foreign Relations, and he led the Jewish-American Congress for 16 years.

    Question: Is the crux of the problem that Israel has no stake in a lasting peace agreement, as Henry Siegman says?

    MS. CROWLEY: I will tell you, his statement is absurd. And I will tell you the crux of the problem. This peace conference is going to end up like all the previous ones for one simple reason. As long as you have one party that refuses to admit that the other party has a right to exist, John, there is no process, because there's no peace.

    MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Mort, speak to this, will you? Then Eleanor. MR. ZUCKERMAN: Well, no, I actually don't think what he is saying is true at all, and the record is completely different from it. I mean, the Israelis --

    MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Israel wants the status quo. That's what he's saying.

    MR. BUCHANAN: Not Israel.

    MR. ZUCKERMAN: No, but he said more than that. He said that Israel has never wanted to develop two separate states. I mean, look what happened in 1967.

    MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Right.

    MR. ZUCKERMAN: Well, with the partition of Israel, they accepted that the U.N. -- or the Israelis accepted it. The Palestinians didn't. In 1967 they offered the same thing. They got the three --

    MR. BUCHANAN: John --

    MR. MCLAUGHLIN: We have to get out.

    MR. ZUCKERMAN: There have been many times where the Israelis have offered a Palestinian state and it's been rejected because, as Monica said, the Palestinians have never accepted an Israeli state.

    MR. MCLAUGHLIN: By the way, he wrote, of course, a much longer piece that appeared in the London Review of Books. I recommend it.

    Out of time. Bye-bye.
    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/sieg01_.html
    donald vance
    ::spvix::

    Let's get this straight:
    1.9/11 was a "false flag" incident.Real.
    2.The U.S. has made Israel a "terrorist state."Real.
    3.The Bible is fiction. Real.

    4.Our taxes are being used for corporate terror while we cower before Supernatural tales of horror, screenplays from religious texts. Real

    Get real: Israel-Palestine is one country with rampant misrepresentation and aparteid injustice.


    In reference to Mike Sabis comment that “9/11 was an inside job”:

    You’d be hard pressed to prove that point to me.

    I do not know what any among you might recall as to what you were doing on Sept. 10, 2001. Circumstances in my life had led me to do some research on Islam that day. Prior to then, I‘d been quite ignorant of the subject. After a quick study, it was easy for me to conclude, however, that anyone who takes Islam seriously is fundamentally cruel. Sept 11th confirmed that.

    I’ve not yet read any of John Hagees books. I get the impression that he holds to an eschatology not too dissimilar to my own. I’ve heard, however, that he is a little confused on some issues that are not germane to the issue at hand. Mr. Sider alluded to the Bible saying that Israel will one day own everything to the Euphrates. He seemed to poo poo that prophecy, however. Does Mr. Sider believe that or not? I’m thankful that Mr. Rosenberg appreciates the blessing that this country has been to the Jewish people.

    Everyone in your report missed the point. The point has to do with a subject that no one in the media wants to address, yet I believe that human events are more and more directing mans attention to this issue…

    We find ourselves in the middle of what is colloquially called a “war on terror”. In light of the fact that this war is about “religion“, I think that its existence, attests to a statement that I would posit as axiomatic: UNLESS HUMANITY CAN COME TO A CONCENSUS OVER WHO GOD IS, WHAT HE IS LIKE AND WHAT HE EXPECTS FROM US (IF HE EVEN EXISTS), WE SHALL FOREVER BE AT WAR.

    Jewish liturgy confirms this axiom. The “Oleynu” which is a prayer recited regularly in the synagogue, declares that in the end of days “The :Lord shall be one and His name shall be one”. Actually this notion is also quite consistent with Christian theology because the text is taken straight out of the book of Zechariah.

    As I see it, there are four ways by which we (humanity) will come to this consensus. 1. We debate the issue and respond to the evidence and arguments rationally. 2. A world view is imposed upon the rest of humanity by some dictatorial entity (Radical Islam seems to be an attempt at this venture but promises to not be the only attempt). 3. The truth is empirically and indisputably revealed to all of humanity. 4. We continue to carry our history of war and bloodshed into the future.

    Many who have addressed this “blog” seem to have claimed to be moderate and opened minded. I know that I am! I am a Jew who, while growing up, played a prominent role in my temple youth group and served, while an undergrad, as President of the Jewish Student Association of the University I attended. I also learned, however, that my identity as a Jew did not hinge upon the opinions of others. I’ve drawn the conclusion that Jesus is indeed the Messiah promised to the world through the Jewish people and spoken of by the Jewish prophets: Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hoseah, Jeremiah, etc. Having drawn this conclusion, bares witness to my open mindedness. Nevertheless, I am in good company. Notable Jews throughout history, including Benjamin Disraeli, Johanness Koepler, and Felix Mendelsohn have held the same position as I. I am also convinced that as long as the Jewish community, as whole, DISMISSIVELY rejects the notion that Jesus is the Messiah (contrary to what the Bible says on the matter and thus unwittingly attacking the veracity of Christianity), the opportunity for rational debate is jettisoned and continued war is inevitable.

    The fault is not entirely that of the Jewish community, however. Jesus suffers from “guilt by association” with a largely anti-Semitic Gentile “church” which somewhat arrogantly assumed the “reigns” of the kingdom of God after the 3rd century A.D. That remains no excuse, however. Guilt by association is not a rational argument. As long as rational debate on the subject of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah is, at best, swept under the rug, Islam is allowed credibility, and the argument that “all religions are a way to God“ just doesn‘t cut it in light of the need for concensus. But then again, maybe subjugating women to a second class role, and the enslavement and murder of “unbelievers” is the way to go. That is what comes with the Islam “package”.

    I've become aware over the years that the idea of a Palestinian State was threatening to Israel and that was one thing. Then I became aware (slow learner) that the U.S., as an Israeli ally, really didn't go out of its way to promote a Palestinian homeland. Last year with Lieberman's betrayal of the Democratic Party and this year with Feinstein's similar abandonment, I suddenly saw three young girls, all friends (can only speak for my gender - maybe boys did it too) and one day one of the three is offended by one of the others. The remaining girl is told by the offended what the offendee did WITH the directive: "If you're MY friend, you can't be HER friend, too." Wellllll, here's the thing. America needs to grow the hell up! We're all supposed to be adults here and we're not behaving that way because Palestine has never done anything to the U.S. My true feeling regarding ANY history is this: "I'm sorry for what our Country ever did; I'm sorry for what YOUR Country did, but if we want our todays and tomorrows to be different we have to stop living in them as IF they were our Past. We cannot unring the bells either of us rang, but we can decide and determine TODAY that we shall come together with a clean slate." Really! When is EVERYONE going to GROW UP and stop counting coup! Every single day is a new day and that means a new beginning. Come together with that certainty, that knowledge, that MATURITY!

    Wish I could agree that Rosenberg was "reasonable, clear, and sane." He hopped from one side of the issue to the other until I thought I was strapped to Brer Rabbit's back trying to evade the fox.

    Thanks to Mr. Moyers for another thoughtful program. The first part of the program filled me with fear and loathing for what seems to be gleeful hate-mongering in the name of Christianity.

    It gives me real hope to hear Mr. Moyers describe his own Evangelical background and to see him show over and over that some Evangelical Christians are more focussed on Christ's positive messages of loving one another and making themselves instruments of peace than on judging, condemning, and attacking everyone else. Mr. Moyers makes himself a positive example in the world every week on his program--presenting thorough discussions of issues that are reduced to bumper sticker slogans and loud, angry bickering in other media presentations.

    Mr Rosenberg was wonderfully clear, reasonable and sane in his discussion of the issue. His views and attitude were so welcome after the rabid posturing of the people in the cufi segment of the program. Thank God for the articulate spokespeople for peace and justice who give us all inspiration and reassure us that there are lots of beautiful souls out there laboring to address issues with reason and decency .

    (rest of comment) Abbas, the PLO head is powerless.
    The "Palastinians" practice a muslim term called "Hudna" which is lying and agreeing to things which they have no intention of abiding. They have either stolen or mis-appropriated billions to buying arms and militant training. They have NOT executed any of their obligations on the "Roadmap", no not ONE.
    They do not desire peace, at all, just quietness coming from where Jews used to live. Please wake up!

    Your last two guests were boneheaded liberal idiots.
    Okay, they both are academics (dirty word!)and are familiar (somewhat)with the bible and Robert's Rules of Order. The Arabs are mostly "none of the above", have been taught the Koran. Read it!
    In 1948,TransJordan was given to include any displaced Arabs to serve as their "own state". Speak then to the Jordanians (Hashemites)to get them to accept their own people. Although I would tolerate nuking Gaza, I consider that there are a few overlooked facts:The current PLO president is a lead

    Mr. Rosenberg continues to perpetuate the myth that the Ashkenazi Jew is entitled to the land of Israel. They are converts to Judaism from the year 850 AD, and hold no real claim to that land, anymore than Irish Catholics own title to Italy. Of the 12 million Jews worldwide, only 2% have bloodlines to the Biblical Jews, and their bloodlines resemble more the Arab bloodlines than that of Eastern Europeans. Yet Jews continue to perpetuate this myth that their ancestors were slaves in Egypt, when they were really tribes in Russia. Most of the Biblical Jews have been kicked out of Israel and discriminated against by the Ashkenazis and Khazars themselves.

    A point that has been twisted is that Israel continues to play victim, as they plow under homes, destroy olive groves and watch the sick die at checkpoints --- these are Palestinians. It seems to me that Israel is not recognizing Palestine's right to exist, whereas the media has turned it the other way. Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed.

    The peace talks excluded elected officials in a democratic election. HAMAS was never invited. It's a moot point when you invite the loser of an election to join your debate. Imagine if it were the United States not being recognized and they sent John Kerry instead of George Bush because Bush wasn't invited!

    The peace talks were for show. There was no real push forward to actually make peace happen or create a home state for Palestine.

    www.ifamericansknew.org

    Also, for those who say there is no Palestine:
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/antiquepalestine1851.jpg

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/antiquepalestine1864.jpg

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/antiquepalestine1866.jpg

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/antiquepalestine1887.jpg

    What about the israli responsibility for teaching the palestinians under occupation the rule of law , citizinship and secularism, freedom of religion and speech? the palestinian grew a genereation under occupations without anybody taking the resposibiliy to teach them being humanists! respecting humanity is something that you learn., by example, by instruction, by something. they left the palestinians stateless, lost in limbo and expect them to evolve into secularist humanists who dont believe in vilence to solve their problems! how can you learn that? israel has the power , the upper hand, the occupy the land the sea the air, got the money the media the knowledge to transform the palestians and change them. Look what the USA did in germany and japan, they really build democracy there, the US is always proud of the marshal plan. where is israels marshal plan? how could expect the palestinans to believe in peace when the very strong rich developed very well supported by the strongest country in the world , occupies their land and does nothing for them.

    I watched your program on Hagee and CUFI with fear and fascination. I was scared watching Hagee and his disciples talk about bombing Iran, and even more scared when the report showed that they believed in armageddon, which was to take place in the Middle East. I was somewhat relieved to hear your guests explain that Hagee is on the fringe, with relatively few followers; and that Bush and his administration are really at odds with Hagee's beliefs. But then I thought about Isikoff and Corn's book Hubris. If the findings of their research are correct, then it seems that major figures in the administration were (and probably still are) influenced by these beliefs (or are at least "in bed" with these believers). Reading Hubris, we learn that Neo-Con and Bush administration policy involved an almost insane following of blind faith by Wolfowitz, Perle, and others with regard to the bad intelligence used to go to war in Iraq. While it is hard to really believe that Bush and Cheney have any spirituality at all, it seems clear that major players in their administration either have "end-game" beliefs, or are using these believers to drum up support to take over Mid-East oil reserves. In any case I would love to see you do a follow-up program "connecting the dots," using Isikoff and Corn's research and the Neo-Cons' connections to Hagee and CUFI.
    And by the way, include me in the category of Jews who believe that Palestinians and Israeli's need to find a way to work together at a peaceful way to live together.

    Lucas Metcalf-Tobin
    Berkeley, CA

    Tha dynk you again for another thorough presentation of a topic no other media outlet is willing to cover.

    I am wondering if you or anyone else is aware of any study with regards to Palestinian land that has either been turned over or sold by Israel to these Christian evangelical groups. I heard some time ago that Jerry Falwell's outfit owned the Hilton Hotel built on the Mount of Olives.

    I would appreciate any verifiable information anyone might have with regard to this particular topic. Thank you.

    come to soulcast.com on the internet and check out over a month or two(slowly)..messenger@soulcast.com

    It was a good piece, but Moyers once again restates the myth that Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map." I have looked for ages and have never found such a quote. Given that this sole statement is the sole basis for attacking Iran, I think the press should make sure he actually said it.

    How can the US pretend to be a peace broker when they supply the WMDs to one side?
    The one side that has nuclear weapons in defiance of the Nuclear non Proliferation Treaty.
    The one side that continues to violate international law.
    It is the same as the Nazis acting as a peace broker between Japan and the US after Pearl Harbour.
    In spite of all the good intentions expressed by the gentlemen in the program, none of this was even mentioned, let alone explained.
    more info here:
    http://therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisdataswitch=0&thisid=646&thisview=item

    the story has been told on your previous shows. The story that says that each human being is much more complicated than we know which tells us that terrorists that strap bombs to themselves and walk into crowded market places... like soldier snipers who aim for the eyes of children walking to school... the story of these individuals is complex and often disturbing and though this doesn't excuse their choices we need the whole of their stories to comprehend a solution.
    The events that make up the recent pomp and circumstance in annapolis do very little to bring these stories to light. What is most necessary is the people involved in the everyday on the ground conflict to walk away from their leaders propaganda in order to have conversations with the people whose stories they have never heard. To listen with trust and faith but most of all to just listen and make up their own minds without the agendas of those whose ears are stuffed with hatred, greed and fear.
    We could all use this technique in the most simple conflicts in our lives and gain our humanity in the process.

    Isreal has been at war since 1948 with our money!
    Our defense industry likes billing the U.S. taxpayer for Isreals war toys. Most of our media is owned by a handful of corporations and most published pro-war propaganda to destroy Iraq. and want to destroy Iran as well. Are American Jews pulling the strings for a puppet U.S. government?

    The motivation of the extremists on both sides, be it AIPAC or the extreme Arab regimes is frozen in time and ideology. These groups continue to sell their perspective to the masses to promote their radical agendas with complete detachment from the reality on the ground between the Palestinians and Israelis. The majority of people on both sides want permanent peace. It’s the way we go about it that’s going to make all the difference.

    MJ’s views about building Palestinian security and statehood is the necessary shift that needs to happen for the two cultures to live in peace. In my organization, we don’t look at peace building the way it has been perceived and enacted by the UN, and the well-meaning-tripping-over-each-other NGO’s. All their efforts have done is merely feed the Palestinians for a day. The Palestinians instead need to be taught how to build self-sufficient institutions.


    Building Palestinian institutions prior to statehood is a must if we want to avoid another Oslo or another Camp David (or another Annapolis?) Dr. Don Beck, who was one of the main architects of South Africa’s transition from apartheid presented the Israeli and the Palestinian leadership with an over arching vision for both states to become the “Hong Kong” of the Middle East. This vision essentially translates into “Building Palestine” to prepare both states for sustainable economies, therefore sustainable peace.

    As the author of two books on the subject of Bible prophecy, I do in fact believe in the Biblical support of Israel. However, as I cite in Rapture Redux (Infinity Publishing, 2007), I am highly concerned with popular pastors who stand behind the pulpit and issue the Christian equivalent of a fatwa - a call to preemptive war against another country (in this case, Iran). Have they become no better than our enemy? Furthermore, such pastors better think twice before calling for an invasion of Iran because a majority of economists, politicians, and scholars all believe it would end in disaster for our country with potential terrorism, economic depression, social disruption, and $10 per gallon gasoline par for the course. In summary, I stand with Israel - but I am increasingly wary of this unbiblical new breed of Christian neoconservatism.

    After the first World War the Turkish Empire lost their Mideast territory to Britain. Within a few years the British gave a large part of this land to the Palestinians however the British named it Jordan.
    The remainder of this British conquest is Israel and should include the West Bank but not the Gaza.
    A two state solution already exists and America and the UN should support that position.

    I wonder whether those who think the whole land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan was given by God to the Jews--or to the Muslims--would be satisfied with another kind of two-state solution, called Parity for Peace: two states on the same land, with bilateral (50-50) governance and equal access by all individuals to resources. This kind of political arrangement, in which two states have sovereignty over the same piece of land, with no geographical divisions, is called a condominium. The advantages to this solution are many. All the problems vexing the negotiators would become moot, as the entire land would be shared. Palestinian refugees could return without upsetting the Jewishness of Israel, which would now be 100 percent Jewish. Each nation could think of the whole place as theirs and live anywhere they wanted to. This would be a just solution that would resolve the conflict. For more on Parity for Peace, see http://www.parityforpeace.org/.

    shade of the lynching tree!!
    or am i too obscure....?
    shecky, too, gets it right!(or rather, gideon does...)

    but this is a subject that is morally quite clear. israel has the right to exist because it already does, as does any armed camp. this is a right that was taken by some particulars and abetted by force of arms. the only moral concern is whether it is moral to force a lock.
    the current political issue is whether any retaliatory action is warranted by those affected.
    it is almost impossible for me to conceive of an israeli who would consciously deny the palestinians the right of self defense but perhaps there are some.
    hm, the root question is of the right to establish authority by means of force. here, the confusion is historical in that the caananites(?) expelled the jews by force some thousands of years before. this is unanswerable in any modern context but once one decides yes or no, then the procedure for remedy is resolved almost inevitably. for myself, i am sublimely uncomfortable with any answer that i adopt due to the arbitrary issues involved in this particlar example. i think israel is a wonderful idea, absent a landed region. one whose "presence" in all cultures on the planet has an almost inevitably beneficial result but no state is tolerable to the individual and every aspect of this conflict has a tribalist premise which concerns me not in the least. americans are awaiting moral leadership about this conflict due to a disastrous error committed by its armed forces some 60years ago, local time,which demands a restitution that no one seems comfortable in considering paying. the result, politically is analagous to sticking with your criminal buddies so the cops don't get the weak link to "flip" and implicate the group.
    all that said, this is almost always a dishonest "debate". even considering the atrocities committed daily!!!! on the oppressed, it remains only reconcilable by the affected parties yet it is beyond ironic that many if not all of the principal initiators are dead or heading that way.
    the more serious issue left unaddressed is the apparent and often incomprehensible inability of most people(period) to assess the moral premises of this conflict but that is, sadly, not news.
    donald vance
    ::spvix::

    Demands of a thief
    By Gideon Levy

    The public discourse in Israel has momentarily awoken from its slumber. "To give or not to give," that is the Shakespearean question - "to make concessions" or "not to make concessions." It is good that initial signs of life in the Israeli public have emerged. It was worth going to Annapolis if only for this reason - but this discourse is baseless and distorted. Israel is not being asked "to give" anything to the Palestinians; it is only being asked to return - to return their stolen land and restore their trampled self-respect, along with their fundamental human rights and humanity. This is the primary core issue, the only one worthy of the title, and no one talks about it anymore.

    No one is talking about morality anymore. Justice is also an archaic concept, a taboo that has deliberately been erased from all negotiations. Two and a half million people - farmers, merchants, lawyers, drivers, daydreaming teenage girls, love-smitten men, old people, women, children and combatants using violent means for a just cause - have all been living under a brutal boot for 40 years. Meanwhile, in our cafes and living rooms the conversation is over giving or not giving.

    Lawyers, philosophers, writers, lecturers, intellectuals and rabbis, who are looked upon for basic knowledge about moral precepts, participate in this distorted discourse. What will they tell their children - after the occupation finally becomes a nightmare of the past - about the period in which they wielded influence? What will they say about their role in this? Israeli students stand at checkpoints as part of their army reserve duty, brutally deciding the fate of people, and then some rush off to lectures on ethics at university, forgetting what they did the previous day and what is being done in their names every single day. Intellectuals publish petitions, "to make concessions" or "not to make concessions," diverting attention from the core issue. There are stormy debates about corruption - whether Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is corrupt and how the Supreme Court is being undermined. But there is no discussion of the ultimate question: Isn't the occupation the greatest and most terrible corruption to have taken root here, overshadowing everything else?
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    Security officials are terrified about what would happen if we removed a checkpoint or released prisoners, like the whites in South Africa who whipped up a frenzy of fear about the "great slaughter" that would ensue if blacks were granted their rights. But these are not legitimate questions: The incarceration must be ended and the myriad of political prisoners should be released unconditionally. Just as a thief cannot present demands - neither preconditions nor any other terms - to the owner of the property he has robbed, Israel cannot present demands to the other side as long as the situation remains as it is.

    Security? We must defend ourselves by defensive means. Those who do not believe that the only security we will enjoy will come from ending the occupation and from peace can entrench themselves in the army, and behind walls and fences. But we have no right to do what we are doing: Just as no one would conceive of killing the residents of an entire neighborhood, to harass and incarcerate it because of a few criminals living there, there is no justification for abusing an entire people in the name of our security. The question of whether ending the occupation would threaten or strengthen Israel's security is irrelevant. There are not, and cannot be, any preconditions for restoring justice.

    No one will discuss this at Annapolis. Even if the real core issues were raised, they would focus on secondary questions - borders, Jerusalem and even refugees. But that would be escaping the main issue. After 40 years, one might have expected that the real core issue would finally be raised for honest and bold discussion: Does Israel have the moral right to continue the occupation? The world should have asked this long ago. The Palestinians should have focused only on this. And above all, we, who bear the guilt, should have been terribly troubled by the answer to this question.

    JP gets it right, though i am uncertain about the role al jazeera played in the misquote.
    as for the rest:
    am i to understand that most of you who have posted are quite willing to be invaded by a foreign agency and forced to surrender your inherited territory, upon which your very life depends, in order to satisfy the unprovable demands of a "very large man", made in an age and in a manner that is equally unprovable?- just wow....
    anyhoo, here is something to truly consider:
    christ and the crucifixion, and all the stories pertaining to, are not regarding an individual, but instead, refer to the political hostilities endured by early devotees at the hands of the holy roman empire in the face of the basic christian tenet of refusing to tithe to the holy roman church, and instead practice charity. no wonder so many had to die...
    at any rate, this subject is not worth any serious discussion. once you have granted an authoritarian force the right to deprive you of your right to live, then you deserve to be slaughtered without quarter.
    in fact, your capacity to effectively safeguard your life indeed becomes entirely irrelevant. there is no wonder that the palestinians would rather die futilely than endure such ignominy.
    otherwise, the condition of the conflict is almost analagous to a particularly messy divorce, and yet most people have more sense than to interfere in such fights without a serious personal investment. make up your mind to strap on a weapon or spend your time somewhat more usefully to examine some of the premises which rebel against all intelligence that you obey without question "daily".
    gallileo moans but orwell roars with laughter.....
    donald vance
    ::spvix::

    With all due respect, why is so much attention in the media focused on Israel? It's a big world out there, yet it seems 99.9% of foreign policy discussions on your show involve Israel and the Middle East.

    Try expanding your horizons Bill.

    I would like to see Bill Moyers present alternative views to the "clash of civilizations" theme that Americans have been propagandized to accept.

    The notion that Islam/the East is in a fight-to- the- death with Christianity/the West is an intellectually dishonest view proposed by biased author Bernard Lewis, and picked up by historian Samuel Huntington.

    There are antidotes to these sick views of the world:
    Richard Bulliet was one of the Columbia U. scholars who sponsored Ahmadinejad's appearance at Columbia U. in October, 2007. (I suspect Bulliet did his best to remain in the background after the disgraceful behavior of Lee Bollinger.) Bulliet wrote, "The Case FOR Islamo- Christian Civilization," in which he examines the deep ties and commonalities between Christians and Muslims. It's a slim volume that's packed with insight and hope.

    I urge Mr. Moyers to interview Richard Bulliet and discuss an antidote to the toxic brew Lewis and Huntington have poured out on the world.

    link to UJF Pittsburgh flier:

    http://www.ujfpittsburgh.org/page.html?ArticleID=147006

    I am extremely distressed that the United Jewish Fund (UJF) in Pittsburgh is drumming up animosity and war against Iran.
    Their flier depicts a flaming mushroom cloud on a stark black ground. It is sensationalistic and fear mongering; we've been down that road before; shame on UJF.

    The flier says the "Iran Task Force" is an "interfaith coalition" but in fact it is composed of about 10 Jewish groups -- only Jewish groups.

    The flier says "A Nuclear Iran is a threat to humanity." Iran is eminently rational; it would be no more a "threat to humanity" with nuclear weapons than is Israel. Israel destroyed Lebanon and left behind a million cluster bombs; Iran has never done anything like that in the last 200 years.

    UJF says its goal is to "educate all Pittsburgh in the danger Iran poses to the world." In fact, the US and Israel are threats to Iran, not the other way around. According to Flynt Leverett, the US has been infiltrating Iran, attempting to foment a break-away movement among small villages at Iran's borders with Kurdish Iraq. Israel is training military in Kurdish Iraq to harrass Iran. The US is funding PKK and MEK, Kurdish groups who attack Iran. Israel participates in these activities in a bid to gain access to Kirkuk oil and to reestablish a pipeline from Kirkuk area to Haifa. Israel lost a legal case concerning oil contracts with Iran and does not want to pay the damages imposed, so Israel is demonizing Iran.

    I was amazed to hear Bill Moyers repeat the mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's words.
    Here is a link that debunks this disinformation:
    http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

    Someday there will be no more wars. Either we will continue to kill ourselves as well as our planet, until all is gone; or we will learn to live together, equally, including all things, unified as one.
    We have a very long way to go, and not much time left to get there.
    My choice is one!

    =
    MJA

    thank you for the second half of tonight's program. cufi scared me so badly that all i could do to calm my fears was to say, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." it was reassuring to hear the other spokesmen.

    sorry; meant that last post for poster 'Carolyn'

    And to poster Craig:

    Just so you know, if you're interested in educating yourself on the history of the Palestinian struggle; after Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza after the '67 war, the only Arab country allowing an influx of Palestinians refugees was Jordan, and even they eventually closed their doors. None of their Arab neighbors was happy about having a large Palestinian minority in their midst and implemented policies to effectively shut them out. It's a sad part of the story that's not very often told.

    I absolutely support Israel's right to exist as a nation and absolutely want to see the Palestinian people have the same. And I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Rosenberg; as long as the Palestinians are without a state, there will be no peace for Israel.

    Bill this situation started in 1947 when the US/UK asked the UN to let Jewish people settle on Palestine land. Hagee is using this for money and he's no different then the Scribes/Pharisees as was hypocrites in the bible. To use the bible Ishmael and Isaac are brothers. That's the root to this situation. Palestinians and Jewish people are related. Now Israel doesn't have any rights to the land but want the US to help them take it.
    Israel will lose because they are still doing the same thing God punished them for a long time ago. Israel asked God to help them win over Hezbollah and we saw God chose Hezbollah not Israel. Bush only had this meeting for his legacy. Without Iran and Hamas it was a waste of time. I would like to know from those who think Israel has rights to the land where were the Jews before 1947? If people like Lieberman and other sickos had their way Israel would occupy the US and declare this country theirs in the name of God.

    Dear Mr. Rosenberg,

    Very much enjoyed listening to you tonight on the Journal. I am especially gratified by your refreshingly honest comments on the AIPAC lobby. I've long been bothered by this lobby's influence and right wing support. (even more distressingly, I have a brother who has become a raging anti-semite and number one on his enemy list? AIPAC) I don't of course share his views but I do resent the the influence that lobbys like AIPAC exerts. I'm not singling out AIPAC in particular; I'm looking forward to truly comprehensive lobbying reform (public financing of campaigns would be a great start) I've been long concerned about the undue influence many of these lobbying organizations have, at the expense, of course, of ordinary citizens like me. Thank you again, peace in Palestine and Happy Hanukkah! (I'm not jewish myself but I did marry a 'nice jewish boy')

    If there were some reassurance that a new Palestinian state would function on the basis of some kind of democratic concensus, a two-state solution would make sense. But it's clear from events that there is no concensus in Palestinian society and that a newly created Palestinian state would become a failed state. As such, it would represent a threat to Israeli security. A Palestinian state? Someday perhaps; but not yet.

    An ex-English teacher, I had visions of Rev. Hagee's face turn into the "Animal Farm" dictator as he has definite piggish facial characteristics! I also recalled my teaching of "Lord of the Flies" as it is scary when Moyers did repeat that Radicals usually seem to be heard the MOST! I'm a lapsed Lutheran w/ a childhood completely saturated w/ the ELC (Evangelical Lutheran Church) so I did hear "fire & brimstone" sermons a LOT, thus my reptilian brain went back to which of these people IS the Anti-Christ?! I'm so discouraged by "special Interests" taking over a naive view of democracy that thinks our gov't. is to be OF THE PEOPLE! I'm usually most angry at the corporate lobbyists, but this show made me think that again the Religious peoples will probably bring the world to an end. T.S. Eliot's line: "not w/ a bang or a whimper." If the CUFI get their way it will be the Iran bomb that takes them up in the rapture. I have mistrust of the APAC lobbyists 'cuz I associate them w/ more money than most of the populace. THAT'S WHY OUR POLITICIANS GROVEL. Christ warned about the "love of mammon." There was also a lot of the word "love" in the Christian gospel. Can we people (animals at the top of the evolution pole) really learn to LOVE each other as we REALLY ARE? I am so confused & unsure of this ever happening. From whence comes my hope?......

    It is disturbing how the current peace process between Israel and Palestinians is framed in the context of fear and antagonism towards Iran - making peace with one enemy while breeding animosity with another is a recipe for a lasting war.

    Mr. Hagee's apocalyptic vision of Armageddon is a twisted and literal interpretation of the concept of Messiah. It is always in times of great injustice, war, bitter poverty, and violence that peacemakers are compelled to push for peace and justice. "Jesus" has come and gone numerous times - he has been around as Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and thousands of other other peacemakers whose names never make it to the pages of history. Perhaps if Mr. Hagee and his group did a little work for peace rather than stoke the fires of more wars, they could feel the true peace (peace they may envision accompanies their rapture), right here on earth.

    help the world KAJ!!!

    I have watched this being played over and over, when will it stop. This so called Arageddon and the end times...the same belief held during the Reformation of the 17th Century. History tells the truth of what can happen and it will not be some beautiful rising to the heavens. No, it will be the submission of those who only believe what the religious zealots dictate or face death.

    The same can be said of some of our esteemed religious figures...scandals, molestation, and yikes, heretical scientists. Are they any different than those they wish to see destroyed, albiet in a "religious" pleasing sense? I don't think so, by attempting to remove the safeguards of the Constitution, revoke critical thinking in science, our America has become a defacto religious state.

    STOP APAC AND HEAL THE WORLD!!!!!

    the only answer i see is to hold jews responsible for their actions and relize those are not the views of real Christians

    "None is righteous, no not one;
    no one understands, no one seeks
    for God.
    All have turned aside, together they
    have gone wrong;
    no one does good, not even one."
    "Their throat is an open grave,
    they use their tongues to deceive."
    "The venom of asps is under their
    lips."
    "Their mouth is full of curses and
    bitterness."
    "Their feet are swift to shed blood,
    in their paths are ruin and misery,
    and the way of peace they do not
    know."
    "There is no fear of God before
    their eyes."

    Romans 9

    I think that the United States government has played a major part in perpetuating the conflict in Israel today.

    Great program and discussion. But you missed the big part about Hagee. What he is trying to show is the Quran's and Muhammad's teaching about the jewish state or better(nonexistence) of. I would like to believe that peace is possible. But both parties in a peace treaty must also believe in peace. The true believers and followers of the Quran understand the truth of suran9:4,9:5-(But the treaties are)not dissolved with those Pagans (Christians ans Jews) with whom you have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in anything, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loves the righteous.9:5 BUT when the fobidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans whenever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful. And this are the teachings that Hagee is trying to educate the Christians on.

    Peace would be great; Israel has wanted just to be left alone to live on their own land. Unfortunately Muslims will never want peace, they want to completely drive the Jews from the Middle East and convert or kill anyone not agreeing with them. And you can really tell from listening to Bill Moyers how anti-Christian and anti-Republican he is. He continually interjected his feelings how "radical" Christians are actually not want to give in to Muslims who kill innocent people. PBS and Bill Moyers should be ashamed for continuously being so anti-religion. Why should right wing Jew or Christian Americans, who live in a country founded on Judeo-Christian values be silenced or called radical by the "public" secular religious zealots like Moyers and his ilk? Why doesn't he interview Pat Robertson or James Dobson and give them equal time on why Israel is so important?

    I was dismayed to read of the jailing and deportation of a teacher because of the name her 2nd grade class gave to their teddy bear. But I am absolutely appalled to hear Hagee's call for the virtual destruction of Palestine and Iran.The extremists on both sides seem totally dedicated to the destruction of our fragile earth!

    Israel is a Jewish country. America is a Christian country. Jews should all make Aliyah as they make trouble for America all over the world and deny Christians the right to practice their religion in America.

    Whatever happens to Israel is a problem for Jews, not Americans. America should terminate all aid to the theocracy of Israel. Failure to do so constitutes a violation of the Establishment clause of the US Constitution.

    I have just listened to your program on the Israel/Palestinian situation and very much appreciated the discussion. However, it puzzles me why you chose to have only an evangelical as representative of the Christian position on a two state solution. I am a retired pastor in the United Church of Christ. I heard your wonderful presentation at the UCC Synod 26 in Hartford. I am sure you know the UCC, the United Methodists, and other main line Protestant churches have been calling for a two state solution for years. Are you implying the stand of these churches is irrelevant? I hope not.

    Mr Rosenberg's analysis is right on. The only way to secure Israel's future is by creating a strong Palestinian State. My organization has been working with both sides to level the asymmetry that exists between the two cultures and the different life conditions in both societies. Our focus is on building capacities in Palestine and supporting strong institutions to equip the Palestinians with skills to sustain a viable state once the two-state solution is finalized. We called our initiative: "Build Palestine Initiative for the Good of All." Many Israeli organizations and officials are highly supportive of this initiative. They know what works for them better than anyone else. Israelis and Palestinians want to get along. I know that from spending a lot of time in the region and working with Palestinians and Israelis from all backgrounds and value-systems. It is unfortunate that the network media and newspapers only show the extremists on both sides, these are usually the minorities. As an Arab I am optimistic about the positive shift that I am witnessing in Arab societies especially among young men and women, and in particular young Palestinians. It is a shame that the media keeps fueling a dance of ignorance between both sides.

    I did not hear any discussion of the role of Middle East rulers outside Israel visa vi terrorism. Even if the Israel and Palestine question is resolved, millions of poor and disenfranchised young people in that part of the world will still feel hopeless and angry. They will still need a great satan.
    There can be no peace without justice. The US must also push for reform of the political systems that deny these people free public education and the hope of a better life.

    CUT AND PASTE MISTAKE.

    In my comments below, please disregard the following sentence:
    "Moreover, according to CNN, now one in three Americans believe so."

    This sentence comes towards the end and does not belong at the beginning.
    Thanks.

    As usual Bill Moyers's discussion of John Hagee and the articulate MJ Rosenberg's counter analysis of this Christian fanatic was simply brilliant. I cannot think of one thing that Mr. Rosenberg said with which I could disagree. He was passionate, articulate and oh so absolutely correct. I, as a Jew, think what a curious phenomenon these Christian Evangelicals are. They have been, with respect to the Jewish people, all over the political map. It was not so long ago that I remember the Christian right as being rancid with anti-Semitic vitriol. Jews in this country were so often afraid of them. Now they present a new face and have become allegedly the Jew's best friend. They are, though, not that. There is a method to the Christian Fundamentalist madness and it is, of course, to ultimately convert the Jew. The New Testament is not a neutral document with respect to the Jew.

    You bet the separation clause of the First Amendment is my friend because without it the Jew might not exist. The real threat to the Jew, Israel and the entire world is, in fact, religion itself. Each group claims they know what God wants. Each group claims they have right on their side and each group will resort to horrific violence to enforce what they think they know. The rest of us who love science, rational thought and the gift of a questioning mind will get swept up in the insanity. The only thing I, perhaps, disagree with Mr. Rosenberg on is that I am not quite as optimistic as he. I certainly hope he is right and the Armageddon that the Christian right and Islamic fanatics want never comes to be.

    I respect this man Bill Moyers very much. One of the few endangered species among journalists - I mean people of integrity, forthrightness, and honsty. But even a great man like him some times make mistakes. Moreover, according to CNN, now one in three Americans believe so.

    One example is when he mentioned that Iran's president wanted Israel to be wiped off the map. In fact that was a willful mistranslation of his speech. Had he done a Google search he would have found that out. I did just that and here is one reference: http://www.republic-news.org/archive/174-repub/174_nenonen.htm

    In previous broadcasts he had disparagingly used hateful words, such as "jihadists", "Islamists" and so on, invented against Muslims by the enemies of peace.

    A man of his caliber ought to keep away from such invective phraseology.

    Those fighting for their lives, to save the lives of their loved ones, their honor, their home lands ... it is cruel to call them 'jihadists' 'terrorists' and so on.

    Mr. Moyers needs a little more insight into facts about the longstanding struggles of Muslims.

    One more sad fact is that Mr. Moyers seem to still believe that 911 was committed by Muslims, while a large number of intellectuals, scientists, professors, and aeronautical and civil engineering experts seem to believe it was an inside job, with Israel's participation. According to CNN, now 1 in 3 Americans believe this to be the case.

    911 should be stated as an 'unsolved' crime.

    Billy Zarcone's message above is true. I would add that the end of the world as spoken by secular people is not correct. Jesus will come to Earth and reign as King during a 1000 year period of peace. Then the Earth as we know it will pass.

    Mr. Moyer and his guests just need to read the Bible to gain knowledge.

    This show began with so much ignorance and hate. This discussion ended on a note of hope. Thanks for that.

    There will never be peace for Israel as far as Arab/Muslims go. Think about it- Israel- a tiny nation surrounded by millions of acres of Muslim lands. Why is it so imperative that the "Palestinian" people to live in Israel, when they can easily assimilate in any surrounding muslim country? Israel has existed since Abraham- and the Bible has been proven to be right again when it says there would be bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael. In all prophecies from the Bible- they have all come to pass-except for those in Revelation- which we are witnessing the beginnings today.

    The truth is always best, but it is also always the first casualty of war. To get to the truth, a few questions must be answered. Who breaks UN resolutions with greatest frequency, Israel or Palestine? Who kills more civillians every month Israel or Palestine? Who has invaded on the others territory Israel or Palestine? Who is amassing weapons of mass destruction Israel or Palestine? What regime is the only remaining system of apartheid left on earth Israel or Palestine? Who refuses to compromise at all in every negotiation Israel or Palestine?

    the jews people have commited an holacaust of gigantic proportions against the palestians people thay have taken over there land and kicked them out they continur to build housing on the west bank they don`t want peace they want to hog the land all for them selves

    the arabs have no inbtentions to make peace with anyone. Their major objective is to convert the entire world to Islam, by the AK 47 in one hand and the Koran in the other. When discussing among themselves in their own languages and dialects, they want to kill all christains and jews, but when meeting with the West, they want "PEACE".
    With their oil, they now control the largest corporations , corporations who are more interested in the immediate monetary gains and not the future of the world.
    Unless the West unite, we will have Armageddon and the end of the world.

    I think that the arabs do not want peace at all. They want the entire world to be converted to Islam. When discussing the matter among themselves in their languages and dialects, they want to kill all christiands and jews, convert the entire globe by the ak47 in one hand and the koran in the other. But when meeting with the West, they want PEACE.
    They have no intention to make peace with israel except to take over the entire country , promising the jews good treatment under Islam.
    Unfortunately, the arabs have the oil and thus control the biggest corporations, who are looking at the immediate results, not the long term resuls.The west should be combined for a crusade or face extinction and the end of the world

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