WHERE ARE AMERICA'S RELIGIOUS LEADERS ???

*** WHEN GOD'S FACE BECAME VERY RED ***

** THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO AMERICAN FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN US PRISONS NATIONWIDE, MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW ??

**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS !
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.

****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.

Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.

This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.

This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!

Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!

For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.

It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.

This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!

***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!

A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE::
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM. ** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !

lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com 424-247-2013

WHERE ARE AMERICA'S RELIGIOUS LEADERS ???

*** WHEN GOD'S FACE BECAME VERY RED ***

** THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO AMERICAN FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN US PRISONS NATIONWIDE, MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW ??

**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS !
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.

****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.

Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.

This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.

This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!

Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!

For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.

It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.

This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!

***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!

A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE::
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM. ** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !

lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com 424-247-2013

To Krolka 3-4 7:29 PM
Thanks for your (& all educators) determined devotion to what may be our country's most important National Security issue!

There are so many concerned comments demonstrating the importance of electing the right people to run our govt. for the people, and that is refreshing.

A mockingbird hunts to feed its young with ruthlessness, from the eyes of the insect, but with devoted love from its young.
I knew someone that refused to clean or cook a phesant because a few hours ago it had been out running around on its little legs; when ask what about cooking chicken, the answer was that it was different as the chicken breast had come from a supper market.

If children are sent to school with the steril hands off, they are the teachers' problems now, attitude then our schools will not improve.
With out parents' & society's support schools can not improve.

Without out attentive, involved citizens, then our political process will end up just where Nader warned about decades ago!

What is CHANGE that "lets" Calif., Texas, Ohio, finally have a say in which senator will be president?
What is wrong with all the states selecting from ALL qualified candidates?

Reclaim "by & for the people"!

Respectfully,
Billy Bob, Fla.

As a public schoolteacher, I don't know if I could get out of bed in the morning if I truly had to attempt every last miracle society was expecting me to accomplish with such a diverse array of learners. Anyone who critizes what we do or don't know needs to try it out for themselves first. Also, some of my students are endlessly fascinated by history and civics, while others could care less. It's my job to engage them and present a fair pool of knowledge, but what they do with it is their own choice. There's no shame in holding a profession that doesn't require the knowledge Jacoby deems essential. Somehow the world keeps turning for academiks and dopes alike!

And to reform "the system", I would make community service a universal graduation requirement. It gives the kids experience and helps everyone branch out a little bit more.

Ms. Jacoby makes a rather saddening observation on the intellectual state of the average American. Recent polls place the number of Americans who cannot locate Iraq on a map at over 60% (Varying substantially depending on the source, but regardless, the number is disturbingly high). This is only part of a much larger distinctly American trend that can be most accurately labeled as "anti-intellectualism." With a focus on mathematics, reading proficiency, and grammatical skills in our nation's public schools, the humanities have gone vastly underfunded and are consequently unknown domains to many American schoolchildren. The emphasis on these subjects, while they obviously helpful in attaining jobs that require practical skills and are also far easier to measure on a standardized test, do not encourage the kinds of independent, free thought that history, geography, philosophy, the arts, and the sciences can provide. While American students are exposed to a distinctly secular education, they are not taught comparative religions in schools, and cannot reasonably be expected to respect and understand the cultures and religions of others if they are not exposed to them. In addition, our society places more value on quantifiable subjects, rather than subjects where answers can rarely be divided into "right" and "wrong" categories. A prevailing view that American children, who consequently grow into American adults, should only be taught the basic essentials for living and not be informed of the vastness of our world, both past and present, is a reflection of a general antipathy for intellect by both religious leaders and politicians of various sects and parties. The American school system must devise a system that allows students not simply to attain a diploma, but to enter into the workforce as educated and learned individuals capable of drawing on a wide variety of subjects in formulating their opinions and beliefs. This can only occur when American anti-intellectualism is deflected, or at least counter-balanced by the general respect for curiosity and personal academic freedom.

Ms. Jacoby makes a rather saddening observation on the intellectual state of the average American. Recent polls place the number of Americans who cannot locate Iraq on a map at over 60% (Varying substantially depending on the source, but regardless, the number is disturbingly high). This is only part of a much larger distinctly American trend that can be most accurately labeled as "anti-intellectualism." With a focus on mathematics, reading proficiency, and grammatical skills in our nation's public schools, the humanities have gone vastly underfunded and are consequently unknown domains to many American schoolchildren. The emphasis on these subjects, while they obviously helpful in attaining jobs that require practical skills and are also far easier to measure on a standardized test, do not encourage the kinds of independent, free thought that history, geography, philosophy, the arts, and the sciences can provide. While American students are exposed to a distinctly secular education, they are not taught comparative religions in schools, and cannot reasonably be expected to respect and understand the cultures and religions of others if they are not exposed to them. In addition, our society places more value on quantifiable subjects, rather than subjects where answers can rarely be divided into "right" and "wrong" categories. A prevailing view that American children, who consequently grow into American adults, should only be taught the basic essentials for living and not be informed of the vastness of our world, both past and present, is a reflection of a general antipathy for intellect by both religious leaders and politicians of various sects and parties. The American school system must devise a system that allows students not simply to attain a diploma, but to enter into the workforce as educated and learned individuals capable of drawing on a wide variety of subjects in formulating their opinions and beliefs. This can only occur when American anti-intellectualism is deflected, or at least counter-balanced by the general respect for curiosity and personal academic freedom.

No suicide bombers before Irag? What about those who destroyed the World Trade Towers?-Will

Will, the towers were destoried by the massive collision of two air plane,
There were no sucide bombers in the planes.

The problems in the education system only further enforce the fact that the system that runs the systems, i.e. the government is the problem. When the brain is broken the body can't fuction properly. If a government is broken the institutions with in it can't fuction properly. We need to change almost every aspect of the government NOW!

Not having fully read into Jacoby's opinions on the matter, i would still have to agree that the education system in this country is shameful and that alone shows great ignorance and irrationality in the people having allowed this to happen, and continue to happen with no real change in sight. the public needs to remember that they make the rules and if enough of them don't like something it needs to changed, and no one that I've talked to thinks very highly of the education system, yet it is far less funded then a wide array of less important issues then the education of your children!

the media talks about everything but, the politicians sign bills on every thing but, the education system is worse then some of the third world countries we pay to help. We need a new education system, government and media all together. that is the furthest extent any problem can have. completely starting over with everything because a broken system can't fix its self.

NO MORE INTEREST GROUPS.
The only interest there should be in government and big business is interest in the people who form it not interest from the people who form it.

For James A Patton Feb.17th
take a look at this;
http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html

Over the last few years I’ve had several discussions with people about the Iraq War. Every one of them was absolutely certain that the Constitution gave the president the authority to declare war. They stared at me in disbelief when I quoted the Constitution to prove the president had no such authority.

Article I, Section 8 provides that only Congress has the power to declare war.

After a while, most of them admitted they’d never really read the Constitution. When I asked if they remembered discussing it in school, none of them could recall any such discussion.

Yes, our public school system is to blame.

In October of 2007, Mario Cuomo wrote an op-ed piece in the New York Times about Senators Hillary Clinton, Jim Webb, and a few of their colleagues proposing a bill to make it illegal for the president to declare war. Cuomo pointed out to these Senators the same thing I’d pointed out to my acquaintances.

Article I, Section 8 already provides that only Congress has the power to declare war.

These representatives either had not read the Constitution, or were playing politics to cover up their own culpability for ignoring the law when they granted the president this authority.

Politicians and the media, through co-dependent interests, reflect information that benefits their own interests, to the exclusion of essential knowledge required by an informed electorate.

Yes, politicians and the media are to blame.

We must wrestle control of our educational system away from the federal government, and from special interests such as the teacher’s unions, and empower parents and teachers locally.

We must start by retracing our steps, educating ourselves on our own laws and system of government. We must find all the things we discarded along the way when we became dependent on government to teach us, and on media to keep us informed.

It is the sunny lower 60s again today in Albuquerque. I am housesitting near the endangered Rio Grande. This state is under a Red Alert for forest fires except in the west where there are no trees.
Beret Co-op sent me here to look for internment camps (FEMA-KBR type) but I've not been able to find any. It is our way of substituting healthy skepticism for cynicism, reasoning things out using real facts. What I've seen is rock art surrounded by new housing developments.
Now I understand why the Hopi deity Massawa is a crazy giant with his face burned off: If humans mess with this tinder box it's "the fire next time" already. My hosts left me a book "Unpeople" by British historian Mark Curtis. It's apparently all the rage in Anglican counterculture. Basically, if you can't pay the freight, you're meat to
the Bigman and his lending institutions (Worldbank, IMF, USAID and so on).

I finally came to the rational conclusion during the Tuesday night Clinton/Obama debate that they are either both Judas goats or both insane. We can't expect to feel prosperous and secure in a world where people ate more food than was produced 7 of the past 8 years, and where scarce fresh water is increasingly privatized by wealthy speculators. I don't know why we're even talking about electric cars and healthcare during an ecological crash. Maybe we should be discussing backyard gardens and bicycle safety.

At Beret Co-op we start with the assumption that money is an optional social contract. We don't obsess over the FED or gold. Our mantra is: "It is difficult or impossible to become or remain extremely wealthy in a peaceful and just society."

What I see is an increase in energy prices. That alone is enough to initiate a Great Depression in this tight margin system. Then we have sustenance shortage (food/water/clean habitat) which drives up basic costs more. The moves of the President (tiny stimulus) and the FED (bigger money supply, lower interest for the elite financial class-2.5%?- compared with Jackson Hewitt tax loans 85% and punitive credit card rates-35%- for working people) are like a baby at its imaginary carseat steering wheel. There's a crash coming, and those who don't see it are irrational.

Ethically:
1.Ethanol is genocide by starvation for "unpeople."
2.Hyperstagflation negates the social contract we had with financial elites.
3.Lies and propaganda by growth oriented capitalist interests and their domination of our government may have brought us to the point of ecological collapse and the end of civilization so it is WRONG to tell us about a rosy future no matter what color or gender you may be.

It may be too late, but Sarah Chayes said it best,"Real determination, not false hope, is needed now." Reason it out Moyeristas: If the people in charge have been thinking about a reaction to the truth by spending only $385 million (a relative pittance)on FEMA internment camps they have been lying (self-deceiving) to themselves too.

My advice from New Mexico is: Ride your bike:Plant a garden:Make dear friends from all walks of life:Don't count on the election or hostage (26 days) Bill Moyers for anything. I'm scheduled for Puerto Rico via Miami Saturday night if a rare Alburquerque snow doesn't ground me. I'm on the road unlike Moyers and Brancaccio who are chained to NYC underwriters.

It wasn't a huge leap from classic American anti-intellectualism to our society's present rejection of reason in toto.

As a very child, I heard adults say occasional admiring things about Adlai Stevenson and asked who he was -- only to be told he was someone who'd run for president and been rejected by the public as an Egghead. In my teen years, fretting about boys who found me unapproachable, I was told, "Since you're so smart, you should be smart enough to hide it." As a National Merit Scholar in college, I finally found a world that got a kick out of me. Should've stayed in academe. The wider world is still ruled by C students who despise thinkers as much as they did in high school, and now find new ways to rationalize it.

I think it's interesting how close we are to the edge of the earth. How white can our teeth be? How fast can our cars be? You notice how they keep rehashing the same old story lines for movies. We are realizing how finite the human experience can be. We are running out of ideas that people can care about. I know there is still some miles to go but we will be there soon. Everyone's since of entitlement will be forfilled, utopia achieved. It will be nice, real nice.

Maybe we should consider the evolution of unreason. Few people would disagree that Americans are frustrated and devalued. There are tens of thousands of public and charitable systems that spend billions of our resources to document innovative approaches and promote themselves. These expanding educational services produce abundant documentation regarding functional deficits and the potential for legal abuse, but little to record what really worked to stimulate effective daily learning for the individual students, parents or teachers. Why don't we love and value our children, parents and teachers enough to offer them the right to assess and document what they really learned and were proud of everyday? What was ineffective or a waste of time and what they shared with others? It is their life and daily educational experience, right?
Maybe a simple data base and 5-15 minutes a day to help account for their personal time and effort? Writing things down requires reflection and validates what we think and can be easily shared with others at their leisure.

Education- learning is an individual process resulting from our unique minds ability to receive sensory stimulation-information, assess it potential value and act. How we act each moment of the day defines our character, how others currently perceive us, in future social interactions and our legacy. Education becomes important to us when we are inspired, consistently involved and are able to learn. Individuals become frustrated or disempowered when they are unable to act in a personal or socially valued manner, feel they have no viable avenue of involvement or that the issue will not be impacted regardless of our actions.

Individual pride would be enhanced by the simple offer of some personal accountability,an accessible process, consistent mutual trust and respect.

I want to be a part of a proud nation that realizes that although we are a society accountable to others, it is the choices each of us make everyday that defines our daily lives and social legacy. Do you?

Respectfully

Darwin Vaught
Charleston, WV

This is my first time. I feel so less alone. I thought I was just a voice in the wilderness. Ms Jacoby is mostly right, except for cau tauing to the infallabel god of science, whom is proven wrong on a daily basis.I never understood why we so quickly except what scientist tell us as absolute. We can perpetually look back ten years and think "boy those scientist sure did have it wrong." Our dumbing down comes from an over arching source, "enoughness". I like the direction our country is taking. There are still a few dinosaurs left in the park. Wanton amibtion,irresponsible capitalism, repression of any kind and the classic republican party to name a few. You can hear them kicking and screaming.Hopefully we can be rid of them before they destroy everything. Sorry if I am rambling. I am just happy to vent.

To Paul 2-29-3:02 AM & 2-20-6:37 PM AND
to John 2-20-10:39 AM
Your comments underline my belief why our country is & will continue to be the country of & by the people.
I respect the scientific theory, but remember that "under ordinary chemical means" had to be added to the definition of matter.
I am a christian that had trouble with assertions that God would forsake Jesus Christ, as some suggest he did on the cross, but found my answer in the 22nd Psalm as referenced by Arnold Murray that Jesus was teaching with his last breaths.

My point about our country is that very emotional based subjects can be discussed without suicide bombings, education denial to keep citizens in place, machine guns, machettes, etc.

May God continue to bless us all!
Respectfully,
Billy Bob

John, I'm not looking for some gotcha, I don't need one. What I'm interested in is truth and hard facts from science. On the topic of the creation of life, science has none, just guesses.

Continue on with your belief we all came from some goo. It requires more faith than the faith I have in the existence of a creator.

It's unclear to me why most scientists get all offended when the topic of a creator comes up. It's still just as interesting to figure out how things are made regardless. I see a grain of sand and wonder how it is made and by whom, no different than if I found a watch on the same beach. We accept that the watch has a creator but somehow can't accept the sand might just be created also. It's no less interesting to discover how it is made, be it the sand or the watch.

I have a suggestion for a guest for the Journal.

Paul Rogat Loeb is an associated scholar at Seattle's Center for Ethical Leadership. His book Soul of a Citizen is a wonderful Rx for our time. I haven't read his book : The Impossible Will Take a Little While: A Citizens Guide to Hope in a Time of Fear
( 2004).

We wouldn't miss a Journal broadcast and value it in this time of need.

Meredith Whitaker, San Luis Obispo, CA 93401

EVOLUTION

Evolution Theory is a Creation Theory of Charles Darwin’s Intelligent Design.

=
MJA

The 'election' of George W. Bush in 2000 was NOT in itself a measure of the ignorance of the American electorate, although the little that people really knew about him did translate into almost 50% of the votes.

Rather, it was the absolutely perverse 're-election' in 2004 that defied all reason and decency.

But, it gets worse: We are about to make the same perverse choice again. As of today, it is clear that either a neoReagan (vote for me because I'm black) Obama OR the Keating-5 Napalm Bomber Hero of Viet Nam will the the next US president.

We would do well to take to heart what Susan Jacoby is so eloquently telling us and what Abraham Lincoln told us in 1842:

"Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy. Reason, cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason, must furnish all the materials for our future support and defense."
-- February 22, 1842 - Springfield, Illinois

In reply to Paul's post on 2/19, thank you for helping to make the point regarding the how little understanding many Americans have of science and the scientific method.

The notion that because we can't predict with certainty what we will evolve into somehow invalidates the theory of evolution is a stunning piece of bankrupt logic. I find that many followers of a pseudoscience - like astrology or intelligent design - always think they have come up with some clever "gotcha" that somehow "proves" real science is false.

As a religious person with a Ph.D. physics, I see no reason why religious beliefs and real science can not co-exist (see Collins's The Language of God for a decent treatise on this). Each can have their own place in your life and one does not "disprove" the other.

Association may not be rational, but it's how we work. So if crack heads are bad, crack is probably bad too. Intellectuals are our 'seekers the truth', and so we want to look up to intellectuals. But when we see they are just as childish and criminal as the rest of us, our disappointment is not only with them, but by association, also with ideal of 'seeking of truth'. For example, while trying to learn about low-fat vs low-card diets I came upon a flame war blog between two endrochronolgists. It was like the old Saturday Night Live skit with each post starting with a string of insults like "Jane you ignore sl**", followed by some short scientific point. I didn't learn anything from that blog , and I felt a little less confident that I could ever learn about nutrition at all. How many courtrooms across the country today had two extensively credentialed (and well paid) academics each testifying to two diametrically opposed 'absolute scientific truths'? Anyone whose been told they have to buy the new $200 edition of the Calculus 101 book because last year's book on the centuries old subject is obsolete knows this disappointment and has had their love for 'seeking the truth' dampened.

I think Jacoby's major argument put forth in this interview is that we have forgotten our real freedom lies in our ability to not just make choices, but to make INFORMED choices. And how can we make informed choices without first have done the proper research? Furthermore, how can we do the the proper research if we're constantly(as another post stated)walking the path of least resistance? When did thoughtfulness and patience become our enemies? We all know that many of our biggest problems like education and health care cannot be solved in a day, so our eyes glaze over. We must be thoughtful, patient, and persistent in our efforts to effect society. Lifelong learning is key.

Someone mentioned that we need to get back to teaching the basics, and another person mentioned discipline. I would submit to you that teachers need to demonstrate to children that they have genuine concern for each and every one. My husband is a teacher. We talk for hours every evening about ideas for his classroom and about his students. He adores them, and he lives to teach them. He teaches them that each has a right to an education, that disruption in the classroom robs the other students of that right, and that education is valuable. Once they believe it, they begin to want to learn and he can teach them anything. Every year it takes a few months for this transformation to occur, but when it does, creativity commences and the desire to learn opens like a blossom.
Testing, schmesting. Do you want teachers who really teach? Find teachers who are passionate about education and genuinely care about their students, then pay them what they are worth. As a legal secretary, I am paid far more than my teacher husband. Teachers of this caliber exist. Every year, their salary increases are eaten by increased benefit costs. It is easy to see why good teachers choose to leave the field of teaching. They want to be able to send their own children to college.

This is my 3rd post to the Moyers\Jacoby discussion, but the recent comments about education cause me to share some direct experiences.

I am a leading edge baby boomer & remember a 4th grd. class when snow began to fall & all students rushed to the window. The teacher insisted everyone return to seats, but no one responded until she called my name & said " I know your mother, she & I are in the same circle at church. She will be upset to hear you won't mind!"
I went to my seat.

In the 90s a middle school teacher told me about a phone call with a difficult student's mother, "Don't ever call again! I have enough trouble with him at home & when he is at school he is your problem!"

The large majority of teachers I have met are competent, caring & at the same time disparing at the amt. of time required to maintain order vs teaching. It only takes a couple of students to disrupt a class.

I was good at sports, hunting & fishing, but school just got in the way. I did what I had to in order to get by, & this is true to some extent with every generation. If parents don't push their kids (mine did) then many will just slide by.

As long as our systems place feelings above results then many students will just slide by.

During the 60s I went to college, joined a faternity, didn't make my grades, was drafted, but joined the Air Force, went to another country, work was highly classified that required experience beyond the regs. A major did not know as much as I did, but he had a home on base with his family & money while I barely got by. Officers had to have a 4 yr. degree & I became motivated & had 2 babies while getting my 4 yr degree so I wouldn't always be passed over by someone that didn't know as much as I did! I became motivated!

Without a system that teaches values, the ABC, until students find a motivation then there may not be a reversing of the "leveling of ambition", which is a main contributor to the failure of socialism.
Respectfully,
Billy Bob

Liberals? It's fine to have no moral center but hold it unreasonable to view science from its reality of relativity. Should we teach that the Sun is the center of our Solar system and that there is no other authority for forbiding murder than it feels right?

Steven Johnston writes "(Paul) please get your scientific information from credible sources, you are being lied to. Start by learning the meaning of the word "theory" in science."

Steven, Yes, I understand the scientific meaning of "theory", and one important aspect of a valid scientific theory is it can be used to make calculations and predictions. Please tell me, based on the theory of evolution, what will humans evolve into in 50,000 years? With all the "evidence" proving we evolved from a primordial soup, certainly we should know what we will become.

The truth is we have no clue scientifically how life got started or how this world has such a diversity of species but people who have no room for a creator in their thinking continue in their conjectures and force their guesses on the world as fact. The problem comes when these scientists can't confess they really don't know for sure and sell their ideas as fact and then hide behind semantics when new evidence shows their earlier guesses were wrong. I look to science for facts but when there are none then we just have guesses gussied up as "theories".

I know, I'm just ignorant for calling a guess a guess. There is an elephant in the room called intelligent design but most scientists call me ignorant when I point it out.

My apologies Steve Cross, my post below should have been directed to Paul

Steve Cross: "Susan, you embody for me the classic elite liberal. If I do not agree with you then I must be ignorant. If I do not accept the theory of evolution as fact then I am ignorant. Susan, it is a theory because it is unproven. It is unproven because there is a lack of evidence."

I think this comment highlights the problem with science education.

Steve Cross, please get your scientific information from credible sources, you are being lied to. Start by learning the meaning of the word "theory" in science.

Wherever this nation has found itself at any moment in time has always been a product of all that has come before. This is no less true today. Name any one factor, and someone will be there to assert that it is not to blame. Which in a sense is true: where we are is the result of a “perfect storm” of social, cultural, technological, and political factors all working in tandem. Most of these factors—the state of public education, attitudes about public education (including the modern tendency to abandon it or view it in a state of denial), parents’ values and behavior, the pap that media serve up to the masses—all of these have been mentioned here.



I’d like to add a few of my own observations, first on the state of the schools. From conversations with one friend who’s a principal and another who conducts teacher workshops and evaluates the projects they turn in, the quality of our public school teachers is in critical decline. This is not a blanket indictment of all teachers—just an anecdotal observation of a trend.



This trend is not limited to the quality of the teaching, but to the quality of the teachers’ own education. Our public schools have been gradually filling up with teachers who can’t follow written instructions. Who can’t write a 3-page paper of greater than “C” quality (and many not even that). Who plagiarize and think nothing of it (or don’t even understand that that’s what they’re doing). And who can’t even find countries on a map themselves, much less teach geography to their students.



Second, on parents. From first-hand observation I’ve noticed an upward trend in what I call “path of least resistance” parenting. Parenting is hard—even very hard. And of those parents currently raising today’s 1- to 15-year-olds, very few seem to know how (or want) to do “hard.” Instead, they do “path of least resistance.” Whatever gets them past the moment, past the hour, past the day. It’s one thing to resort to that in a pinch—we all have. It’s quite another to make it your de facto parenting style. And that’s what seems to be happening.



The inevitable product of that: a cadre of self-involved, entitled, undisciplined and un-self-disciplined youngsters. “Do my homework? Not now, Ma, I’m busy texting. Oh, and shut the f-ing door on your way out, willya?” And “Ma,” who has long since passed the point of no return on this path of least resistance, meekly complies.



Put kids like that together in a room and add a teacher who is the product of an inferior education. Factor in a likely ill managed school system bogged down in bureaucratic red tape that has absolutely nothing to do with learning, much less leaving any child behind.



Dump onto the pile all the textbooks that are poorly written and often just plain wrong. Pour on a good dose of IM’ing and txt’ing and video gaming and Myspacing and TV watching and MP3-ing, and juice up the distraction factor thereof. Not to mention the technology-heightened sex and violence factor.



Light the fire with politicians on both sides of the aisle—one group who wants to solve the problem by subsidizing the exodus to private schools and the other who would rather throw money at a sick system than examine it—and you get what we have today. A situation that is epitomized by that adult contestant who, pitted against a third-grader on national TV, looked dimly at the game host and said, “But I thought Europe was a country! Hung(a)ry? That’s a country?”

Yes, I agree that America
is facing a "dumbing down"
of our knowledge of our own
history, culture, and institutions, as well as the rest of the world's
countries and cultures in
general.

Our public education system is broken, and needs to be fixed by going
back to teaching the "basics". I believe this applies to both public schools, as well as
to colleges and universities.

American's loss of understanding of our own system of government, civics, and history may ultimately lead to the loss of our freedoms,
democratic institutions,
and democracy itself.

I have recently been reading Al Gore's newest book titled, "The Assault On Reason". For the past seven years I have come to feel like everything I ever learned in my fifty-five years concerning our laws, our constitution, our government,our morals and ethics, as well as our place in the community of nations and as a world leader was totally wrong. Reading Mr. Gore's book has assured me that it was not just me. His is one of the most direct summations of everything that has happened in the American narrative during the past several years since 9/11. It carefully delineates the incomprehensible harm that the current administration has done to all of us and the world community as a whole. Please include this book in further discussions such as "The Age Of Unreason". Thanks for speaking out and bringing Susan Jacoby's important commentary to us! Keep up the good work!

I whole heartedly agree with Ms. Jacoby. It amazes me the number of store clerks that can't make change if the register doesn't tell them.

I agree with Ms. Jacoby about our "overarching crises...". Part if the problem is that government does not want an educated constituency that continually challenges it. Part of it is the taboos that religion places on any questions of its basic tenets and part of it is corruption at all levels of government responsible for managing the provision of education.

Comments I agree with, agree with parts of, & disagree with ,but see where they are coming from, caused me to read those posted to date.

In my earlier post 2-16-08 10:22 AM I added a PS that was the reason for me to get involved with internet research which basically questions why so much intellectual energy has been expended to "folks" & "troops" usage and so little to the right of USA voters to participate in representative govt. as denied by "Mean" Dean & the DNP.
Given that every modern day elected president has come from a 2 (realistically) party system, then denying the right of a state to participate in the selection of a presendital candidate is worthy of intellectual scrunity. So to Duck Soup 2-16-08-11:16PM, how do you explain Obama, et al, agreeing to disallow a 3rd parties' rights such as the "troops" in Iraq from Fla. & Mich.?
Why is this seemingly of little interest to you in-ta-lect-u-alls? Maybe Jacoby thinks U R dumb down.
Respectfully,
Billy Bob 2-17-06-9:50 AM

If we are talking about discourse grounded in fact, then it interesting to note that no one seems to have noticed that she said foreign treaties have to be approved by the Congress - in fact, the Senate approves treaties. At least someone picked up on Judicial Review.

Of course, it was an interesting interview and she makes some good points. It’s always been a lament of Europeans and others that even among educated Americans, the only thing we seem to want to talk about is real estate and the stock market. Unfortunately, I have to concede they have a point.

America is in a funk right now and these kinds of books tend to get a lot of attention during these times.

I compare this period we're in to the funk in the early 90's when the other Bush was President. The zeitgeist at that time was that we were on the verge of becoming a "has been" country destined to be owned by "Japan, Inc." Lots of books were published saying stick a fork in us, we're done.

...then the "Roaring 90's" began and we were on top again. Even some Western Europeans politicians and intellectuals were beginning to wonder whether they should consider an American style socioeconomic model. If this book had come out during this time, it would have been relegated to obscurity.

But now...America is feeling back on the ropes again and this kind of book is porn for people who enjoy a good America bashing in the morning to jump start their day.

I have no doubt she'll be treated like a rock star when she goes on book tour in Europe.

I found the interview with Ms. Jacoby fascinating. It certainly explains a lot - we now have the corporate media choosing and marketing our candidates and influencing our elections. If a candidate is going to take on the corporations, they are toast as far as the media is concerned. Remember how Hillary was villified on healthcare fifteen years ago and now it is the topic du jour for all candidates in both parties? In retrospect, she seems very wise as we pay 50 times as much for the same U.S. medicine as they do overseas. Dumbing down is certainly at play. I long for the day when people vote on the issues and not the fluff that is marketed by the media. If the media is behind you, what kind of deals have been made? I've seen the winners of the debates on the issues for the last seven years LOSE and the losers gain office. Doesn't take Einstein to figure out that the theory presented by Ms. Jacoby is a major factor that has infulenced elections and resulted in our national debt doubling in the last seven years and our great great great great grandchildren's futures being mortgaged to China.

It has already been commented on several times that Ms. Jacoby made a bad historical mistake in asserting that judicial review in in the Constitution.

It might also be noted that some conservatives have talked about overturning Marbury v. Madison should they take over the Supreme Court. The argument is that since the three branches of government are equal, each branch is on its own to figure out what the constitution and laws require.

Susan, you embody for me the classic elite liberal. If I do not agree with you then I must be ignorant. If I do not accept the theory of evolution as fact then I am ignorant. Susan, it is a theory because it is unproven. It is unproven because there is a lack of evidence.

Susan, I know there are nine supreme court justices and it would please me as an American citizen if they did decide to value human life enough to slow the free flow of abortion in our society. But to you I am ignorant because I have this opinion.

It is the classic liberal spin, if a person doesn't agree with me then they are ignorant. And from what I can tell from your interview on the show, you wrote an entire book on it. You glorify FDR but obviously ignore his decision to imprison American citizens of Japanese descent and steal their property. Also he started in motion an entitlement society that has led to a financial nightmare that our current politicians refuse to address because it is political suicide. But it was so nice he would chat with Americans via the radio. How sweet. What a great American. It will take great political courage to undo all the damage he has done. But I am obviously ignorant because I have this opinion.

While I value the opportunity to hear opposing points of view, I won't be purchasing your book. I'm too busy to read it, working as a productive member of society. Besides, I simply need to turn on the TV to hear opposing points of view, the news and PBS is full of opinions that are contrary to my own.

A brilliant woman and someone of whom the American shakers and movers should take notice; or rather, the subject matter she has taken on: the total and complete ignorance of the American populace because of the abominable standards this country sets for its education (in comparison to the education of other industrialized countries). This cannot be rectified for it is due to a general malaise in this country: a total non-caring of educators; a media that cares more about its ratings, thus incoming dollars; the laziness of politicians; and the extreme emphasis -- not on knowledge and wisdom -- but on money in pursuit of the American Dream, which is nothing more than "instant gratification" seated in greed.

As other countries are ever advancing in our now one-global world, this most serious lack of education will cost this country dearly in losing its no. 1 economic status in the world when the next generation becomes its workforce. Or, if not that, it becomes an elitists-run society more than it is already today, with the wealthy being well-educated and the populace becoming ever-more ignorant.

How to remedy this? How can one instill a desire with this country’s citizenry to become better educated? Perhaps it is a good thing to loose its no. 1 status, for there will be a point that all Americans will have to wake up to the realization that others in the world are far, far ahead in just about all of the world departments. That will bring the American spirit of competition back rather than current complacency, which will in turn bring about study after study about "Why did we fall behind?" Until finally, someone just like Susan Jacoby will come on the scene once again and write another work on The Age of American Un-Reason. Perhaps, we should heed NOW the words of this brilliant woman!

A brilliant woman and someone of whom the American shakers and movers should take notice; or rather, the subject matter she has taken on: the total and complete ignorance of the American populace because of the abominable standards this country sets for its education (in comparison to the education of other industrialized countries). This cannot be rectified for it is due to a general malaise in this country: a total non-caring of educators; a media that cares more about its ratings, thus incoming dollars; the laziness of politicians; and the extreme emphasis -- not on knowledge and wisdom -- but on money in pursuit of the American Dream, which is nothing more than "instant gratification" seated in greed.

As other countries are ever advancing in our now one-global world, this most serious lack of education will cost this country dearly in losing its no. 1 economic status in the world when the next generation becomes its workforce. Or, if not that, it becomes an elitists-run society more than it is already today, with the wealthy being well-educated and the populace becoming ever-more ignorant.

How to remedy this? How can one instill a desire with this country’s citizenry to become better educated? Perhaps it is a good thing to loose its no. 1 status, for there will be a point that all Americans will have to wake up to the realization that others in the world are far, far ahead in just about all of the world departments. That will bring the American spirit of competition back rather than current complacency, which will in turn bring about study after study about "Why did we fall behind?" Until finally, someone just like Susan Jacoby will come on the scene once again and write another work on The Age of American Un-Reason. Perhaps, we should heed NOW the words of this brilliant woman!

As far as I can tell, no place has been provided to comment on Lori Grinker's photography of Iraqi refugees.
The loss of life, the disfigurement and the reduced and terrorized circumstances evoke pity from some and only voyeurism from others. It does not win my sympathy that some suffer because they assisted our illegal and horrific invasion and occupation as an employment. In a way they can be likened to the hungry and ill informed scabs who assist exploiters by breaking a strike.
I do not want my neighborhood decimated like theirs but fear it could happen if our government continues its crimes and deceptions. You see, I believe our government (elite and covert) was complicitious in 9/11 and that there are several reasons our Mideast wars are crimes with all that implies. The reason was probably Peak Oil and diminishing returns to our wealthy class.
The United States has long cast a lenghthy shadow in the world. We called Mexico corrupt, but it was the shadow of our Wall Street greed that put them in darkness. We called Africa ignorant, but it was our ignorant greed for raw materials that kept them stupid. We called Arabs violent, but we brought a violence and heartlessness to bear that dwarfed anything they could muster. We call China exploitive, but it is our mindless consumption and greedy off-shoring that has caused their wage slavery. It is even our mindless lust which drives sex tours, sex slavery and the porn industry. Our long, wide shadow is starving the world for truth.
There is no reason our poison should not come back to us in violent mercenaries, drug addiction,repressive government,hunger and energy starvation, This is one world, and I doubt our feeble and exhausted military can tame much of it, doubt that a Chinese Wall concept can seal our borders, doubt that we can ever get learning up to speed now that we are dumbed down, doubt that the monsters responsible will ever be tried or punished. About the time you pour that ethanol in your scooter, you'll be too starved to ride. And about the time that Internet juice begins to flow from your new solar panel the sky will go dark. It's not the rapture, not Jesus angry we haven't completely used up creation. It's only the end of civilization because America waited too late to change her ways.
P.S. Lori Grinker: You have a nice camera. Take some horror shots at home and save the jet fuel. We are ugly too.

Tiger01 1:27am- You must be one of those anti-intellectual youngsters we athiest intellectuals fear so much. You certainly exhibited a disregard for Moyers blog etiquette when you quoted me without credit:
"How sad that foolish beliefs that are childish and wishful thinking are held up to keep people moving down a suicidal path toward Fascism and ecological collapse. Neither George Bush nor any other politician truly believes that the Bible is literal truth. It is only a threatening fantasy used to control relatively powerless people.
If you must agree that 2+2=5 under the threat of waterboarding then the truth is moot."
You worry that injustices overseas are much worse than those here. We in America are purportedly exporting democracy. I think our democracy tank is about empty. Oh, when we run out we'll just squeeze some good old Tiger01 in there. A world famine in grains is pretty near. Ethanol production and a crop failure from global warming this fall could bring it on. What think ye, Tiger01, about your Furher's false flag 9/11 attack? Was it for our education? Don't mess with this patriotic dwarf, baby!

The URL did not post so use the search term FreeRice with ,United nations.It is basically a vocabulary building game in which twenty grains of rice are donated to the World Food Programe for each correct word added.I have added three thousand grains to the total in the last two days, )

The link is to an example of one simple idea that can help in some measure..Its not just about feeding people , but building vocabulary.Nuanced communication depends on precise and accurate wording It can be critical in delicate situations.I wonder if people in public service might not be encouraged to play this game?

Wow! What a powerful program on Friday night. It haunts me still. Although I am sure that your viewers are well aware of our inability to deal with our national financial problems to hear them spelled out so clearly
minus the gloss brings the problem squarely into the light. And our education system is certainly failing us. I am a great fan of Neil Postman but had not read Susan Jacoby. I have just ordered her book and look forward to reading it. It is almost inconceivable to me to learn that fully 75% of college students think the sun revolves around the earth. As for creationism, well I have a good friend who is a doctor, a man of science and I was much surprised when I learned he believed in creationism. His reason: it was prettier and more uplifting. Go figure.
But what truly haunts me is the work of
the photographer. I came away deeply ashamed. We may not have directly caused some of those tragedies but we are certainly complicit in them. That we have laid the groundwork for so much pain and human suffering makes us international criminals. And that saddens me deeply. What have we become that a barrel of oil is worth more than human dignity? Our pursuit of happiness at untold cost to others has robbed us of our soul.

The most critical information concerning governmental affairs is denied by mainstram media. I think there is a concerted effort to do so.
hg

Great woman, Ms. Jacoby, pointing out that the gullibility not just of the American public, but of people practically the world over, and the dumbing influence the Establishment and its religious branches exert, is a serious problem that affects all of us in more ways than we realize.
She mentioned the Rapture. This is a product of the fertile imagination of someone claiming that it is based on what is written in the bible. It is not. This is not surprising, since the religions of the world are not based on anything written in the bible either. They are, as Bill Maher likes to say, made up out of whole cloth. So is the Rapture.
What many people don’t realize is that the Rapture came about because two words: “earth” and world” have (deliberately?) become to be thought of as one and the same article. Of course they are not. One is the solid ball we stand on and the other is an abstract, representing the mess we have made on it.
The problem for the Establishment is the pronouncement made by Jesus, fervently anti-religionist and anti-establishment, when he talked about “the end of the world”. He meant their world, the one he rejected when he was offered power over “all the kingdoms of the world”, if he would accept it on the Establishment’s terms. Later on he said “I am not of this world”, also falsely interpreted by some religious spokespersons as meaning “I came from another planet”.
By subtly substituting “earth” for “world” in our minds, the prediction is given a fearful meaning, as if the Creator would blow his wonderful creation to smithereens. This will not happen, but it keeps us in fear, and that is where the Establishment wants us. It keeps them in business. They may even suggest that their scientists will do anything in their power to prevent God from destroying the planet with us on it.
The Rapture, be assured, is not going to happen, because there is no need for it. The earth abides forever.
Words are powerful tools, but a word can totally lose its original meaning, as Ms. Jacoby relates what happened to the word “soldier”, which has been replaced by “troop”. It would be more appropriate to refer to them as victims of the usual lies when it comes to waging war.
In this connection look at what happened to the word “faith”. One can have faith, but one cannot have “a faith”. Faith used to stand for the conviction that a prediction would come true, as one could say “I have faith in Jesus’ prediction that this violent world will come to an end and will be replaced on earth by a “kingdom of heaven” (not one “in heaven”. Heaven is not a place, but a condition).
By making the adverb “faith” into a noun all the original meaning is lost, since it now became another word for “religious sect”.
It would be well to realize that our minds are being manipulated by the Establishment and its religions. They count on us not to be too critical and ask too many questions, so that they can continue their profitable practices unhindered.

Dumb objectivity, poor historical memory, poor critical thinking skills, little fact checking--these failings of the American people are but the symptoms. The real issue, the bigger picture, as is once again not significantly discussed, is what causes these symptoms. While our education system is to be partially blamed, and rightfully so--since it was designed to create human tools, not critical thinkers--the real problem is the Establishment Press. And, of course, the government is to blame for both of these problems (but, then again, they did this intentionally, to create sheeple who are easily led and misled):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8404777388320594019

A free press driven by economic means will always turn into a propaganda tool for big business and for a fascist government. The only way to have a free press with integrity--to educate the public, to provide historical memory, to elucidate truth and critical thinking, and to fact check--is to have a free press free of economic and governmental influences and to have public news programs that are extremely well funded and widespread, easily available. All of this is, and has been, well known.

So, the problem is the current "free" press driven primarily by corruptible economic forces:
http://excaliburbooks.com/RedAlert/press.html

The solution is to have extremely well-funded and widespread public news programs and newspapers free from governmental and economic forces:
http://excaliburbooks.com/RedAlert/goals.html

An authentically free press, one not bound by economic nor governmental forces, would be the key solution to the educational problems Americans now face, and, in turn, almost all of our other problems.

Bill, why don't you make a report on what the real problem is and what a real solution would be, such as the above.

--
We are being lied to; know the truth:
http://www.ExcaliburBooks.com/RedAlert/

Great woman, Ms. Jacoby, pointing out that the gullibility not just of the American public, but of people practically the world over, and the dumbing influence the Establishment and its religious branches exert, is a serious problem that affects all of us in more ways than we realize.
She mentioned the Rapture. This is a product of the fertile imagination of someone claiming that it is based on what is written in the bible. It is not. This is not surprising, since the religions of the world are not based on anything written in the bible either. They are, as Bill Maher likes to say, made up out of whole cloth. So is the Rapture.
What many people don’t realize is that the Rapture came about because two words: “earth” and world” have (deliberately?) become to be thought of as one and the same article. Of course they are not. One is the solid ball we stand on and the other is an abstract, representing the mess we have made on it.
The problem for the Establishment is the pronouncement made by Jesus, fervently anti-religionist and anti-establishment, when he talked about “the end of the world”. He meant their world, the one he rejected when he was offered power over “all the kingdoms of the world”, if he would accept it on the Establishment’s terms. Later on he said “I am not of this world”, also falsely interpreted by some religious spokespersons as meaning “I came from another planet”.
By subtly substituting “earth” for “world” in our minds, the prediction is given a fearful meaning, as if the Creator would blow his wonderful creation to smithereens. This will not happen, but it keeps us in fear, and that is where the Establishment wants us. It keeps them in business. They may even suggest that their scientists will do anything in their power to prevent God from destroying the planet with us on it.
The Rapture, be assured, is not going to happen, because there is no need for it. The earth abides forever.
Words are powerful tools, but a word can totally lose its original meaning, as Ms. Jacoby relates what happened to the word “soldier”, which has been replaced by “troop”. It would be more appropriate to refer to them as victims of the usual lies when it comes to waging war.
In this connection look at what happened to the word “faith”. One can have faith, but one cannot have “a faith”. Faith used to stand for the conviction that a prediction would come true, as one could say “I have faith in Jesus’ prediction that this violent world will come to an end and will be replaced on earth by a “kingdom of heaven” (not one “in heaven”. Heaven is not a place, but a condition).
By making the adverb “faith” into a noun all the original meaning is lost, since it now became another word for “religious sect”.
It would be well to realize that our minds are being manipulated by the Establishment and its religions. They count on us not to be too critical and ask too many questions, so that they can continue their profitable practices unhindered.

At least 60% of the people around you would be walking barefoot if someone smarter hadn't invented shoes.
The advances of a handful of geniuses have made possible a vast sea of half-wits, all driving around in circles in little chimp-wagons.
People nowadays are so dumb you can blow up a building in front of them and they won't notice.

bill moyers' program, week-in-and-out, is one of the best on TV. unfortunately, susan jacoby's appearance was a disappointing low point. first, as a posting in the WASHINGTON MONTHLY, in response to a WASHINGTON POST op-ed by jacoby that covered much the same (minimal) ground as he MOYERS' presentation notes, she offers almost no credible evidence for her claims. worse, many of her examples, as

several earlier posts here have noted, were simply dead wrong or hopelessy simplistic. emblematic of her own shaky grasp of basic issues was, for instance, her show-stopping claim about the CONSTITUTION specifically authorizing the SCOTUS to interpret its meaning.

hello, fellow human beings--enjoy the show and love the posts!!! Susan Jacoby is fortunate to have the opportunity to express herself on PBS and have real listeners. And I feel fortunate to be able to post here, as well. I'm not college educated and I consider that advantageous to my own free thinking and trying to stay open minded and non prejudiced. This takes effort. I'm not sure it's possible. Thinking has always been my favorite pastime and learning is what makes life worthwhile to me. I am truly blessed. I loved school and most of the teachers I had. Life is very difficult today and I'm glad I chose not to have children. Our language is babble with each of us assigning our own meaning to our words causing never ending misunderstanding. We are at present confronted with many seemingly confounding issues--where are the answers, what are the answers? It's unlikely one human being exits that has them. Those that are excitedly waiting for Jesus to come and solve all our problems, I say, hurry up, but He did not cause the status quo--WE DID! We're all in this life together, we each contribute to the way things are. I'm convinced we can create a better reality than the present. I have learned I have so many choices it boggles my mind sometimes. It is my responsibility to continue to learn so I can make ever better ones. I see myself ever more so as a valuable part of the whole family of humanity and a valuable individual as well. Every human being has equal value and worth to me. Wish every person felt this way. So much of my life experience and learning has come from bad examples and I'm hardly alone here. I do not believe people are dumb. I think more, we are all unaware of the truth, what I call--God's Truth. Humans have infinite potential, we may not even have reached first base. We can do so mch better than we are. Any consciously aware thinking person can 'see' this, knows this. There is much beyond and deeper than 'intellect'. I believe the truth and what is real exists in 'invisible land', where gravity is, thoughts are, and consciousness is, and much more. We know these things are real but we can't see them in material reality. They have great influence. There is so much more to life than what is visible. Perhaps the devil is more an invisible negative influence on human consciousness than a red man with horns and a pitchfork tail. I believe humans can do better than think we have to compete with each other for everthing just to survive. This is flat stupid. How long are we going to srtuggle with capitalistic economy that has proven it doesn't work? For all those who patriotically still say this is the best country on earth, I say, look at how things are!!! It's pitiful. WE CAN DO BETTER. We have to change. Capitalism and competition have to go. We need equality, co operation and unity. Life is not a game, I do not at all understand why anybody would choose to accept this. Get rid of money--look how limiting it is, can' we find a better means of exchange than this?
how can we ever come together politically when the system is set up to be divisive and competitive? And the candidates, c'mon, no one person knows everything or is an expert at everything. There isn't even a list of qualifications for them to adhere to. Just ego and money. We need new definitions for freedom and democracy. We need better than majority rule. We need better than plutocracy and corruption, deceit and lies. We live in a world of lies on a ball of confusion. Fighting does not solve anything, the resentment lingers until the next fight. Life is not about winning and losing. What a mess we are in. Hope, I still have some. The God I believe in(but NO human created religion) obviously does not use command and control, but free
will and CHOICE.

Thank you,Bill,for the most stimulating and educational hour found anywhere on television. Your conversation with Susan Jacoby was both revealing and thought-provoking. As for the ignorance of our society, the blame lies with us, the American people. We demand job training instead of education. We accept ideology and indoctrination instead of philosophy and logic. Our school systems never challenge us or our children with the big questions about life, civic responsibility, our support of corporate greed through consumerism, and our place in a global society. While some see television as one of the causes of the decline in American thinking and discourse, we all know that TV only "sells" us the programs and products that we demand. Public fascination with celebrities reveals that our problems "...lie not in our stars, but in ourselves."

As Susan Jacoby pointed out, we get the government we deserve, but we also get the educational system and entertainment that we deserve. We are the enemies of reason and responsibility because we choose to settle for less rather than demand the best. While what we watch reveals a great deal about ourselves, we don't want to be confronted with having to think about ourselves. That's why we're more interested in Oprah Winfrey's most recent interview than we are in the Journal. Entertain us, sells us what we want or think we need, but don't challenge us to know ourselves or examine the lives of "quiet desperation" that we all live.

Since watching this program Friday night with Susan Jacoby, I'm still thinking about the discussion in general and the use of the words "troops" and "folks" in particular.
So struck by Ms. Jacoby's views was I that I was tempted to email the Barack Obama website and tell them that I object to his use of the word "folks" when speaking to us. However, last night while I listened to his speech in Wisconsin, and his use of the word "folks", I realized that I really don't believe that he is talking down to us. I thought about the fact that I was born and raised in Arkansas, and that language is always in flux, thankfully, and not a static thing. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, knowing that the African American community in Chicago probably uses the word "folks". As for "troops', my father was a master sergeant during WWII and he used the word troops all the time.
When Jim Lehrer shows the pictures and names of the men and women who have been killed in Iraq, I certainly don't think, Oh, well, that's just a troop. I look at the face of that soldier and feel an overwhelming sorrow for the loss of their life, for them and their families. I ferverently hope Obama wins and will end the war in Iraq. Then I will truly be one of his "folk".

I wish for once that someone in the media would give us some credit for thinking for ourselves, and know that we don't believe everything we hear on TV.

At present, I'm reading David McCullough's biography, John Adams, and one of the themes throughout the book is Adams' love for the language and its proper use. I cannot imagine Adams himself objecting to either word.

The reason people have survived this long is their ability to recognize problems and deal with change making necesary corrections to guarantee their survival. It has become self-evident that there are fault lines in our democratic system. The most serious fault lines are giving the president unlimited power so that he can become a dictator, the action to change the constitution to remove people's rights and the institutionalization of lobbyists who corrupt the politicians who then support vested interests Instead of their constituants best interests. Many people have died to protect our rights and freedom which the government is presently undermining. "It is our right; it is our duty to throw off such government and provide new gaurds for our future security". that is the sum total of american patriotism.
If we want our country to be what it was intended to be; we need to do what is necessary to change our present course.
Preemptive stike and torture is not consistent with our noblesse oblige. It undrmines our moral fiber.

I believe mainstream American TV has a lot to do with this information gap. Most American media serves to sell consumerism and promote capitalism. As former advertising executive Jerry Mander asserted, when you let clutter into your mind, it never leaves. Much of the collective American consciousness has been cluttered by un-information. Mander says, "Technological civilization is destroying nature and human life."

Thank god for Bill Moyers! I've been a huge fan of his interviews going back the the great series with Joeseph Campbell. The voices of reason represented by his many guests continue with this latest conversation. The points raised by Susan Jacoby resonate clearly with my minds eye experience here in the conservative, Christian, ignorant community of Deer Park, (Spokane) WA. But like she points out, they are not listening. Just like in global warming, the critical mass time for the action of intelligent education is passing us (USA) by. The future will happen in spite of our decline, and the universe will continue to evolve without humans.

Thank god for Bill Moyers! I've been a huge fan of his interviews going back the the great series with Joeseph Campbell. The voices of reason represented by his many guests continue with this latest conversation. The points raised by Susan Jacoby resonate clearly with my minds eye experience here in the conservative, Christian, ignorant community of Deer Park, (Spokane) WA. But like she points out, they are not listening. Just like in global warming, the critical mass time for the action of intelligent education is passing us (USA) by. The future will happen in spite of our decline, and the universe will continue to evolve without humans.