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Bill Moyers on the Man Behind the March

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Thank you Mr. Moyers, for once again pointing out, in a respectful way, the truth about the hypocrisy of people who claim they're on their side, while looking out only for themselves. Unfortunately, the people who support Dick Armey and FreedomWorks, have little patience with inconvenient facts like the ones you presented; they simply want to attack the President, and this is their chance to. They're not going to change their minds, no matter who is heading the rallies, or why.

However, I do have to wonder how many poor people died after Dick Armey defeated universal healthcare because they couldn't get insurance (were denied) or pay the high premiums? All while Dick Armey actually sued the government to keep HIS government insurance??
(instead of buying that private insurance he said was so great, which he easily could have afforded, unlike the rest of us...)
Go FreedomWorks!

Mr. Moyers:

Is the proposed tax on "Cadillac" Health Care Insurance applicable to members of Congress and other federal employees?
Will Rep. Rangel and Sec. Treas. Geitner pay the tax?

Have a nice day.

This is priceless. Grayson stands up to a den of wolves. Finally a congressperson with guts.

Alan Grayson goes on the set of The Situation Room and fires back on the Republicans! http://crooksandliars.com/node/31678

Grady;

Just a few suggestions;
It seems to me, you would like to influence others and change minds.If this is your goal,you should take a look at your approach.I have found that changing anyone's mind about anything is a very difficult proposition.It is a mistake to demonstrate such poor manners and judgment by trying to insult and talk down to people to advance your agenda or philosophy,also there seems to be no realistic substance to your "solutions".People have very short attention spans under these conditions.Digression,rambling,and inflated posts seem to be your specialty.I'm sorry,but I just don't see this "Workers of the world,Unite!"stuff about to fly anytime soon.

A Critique of Impure Tolerance: Lee feigns surprise and pauses to "compromise" (not a good thing if you're a prurient victim). Capitalism corrupts and monopoly global corporate capitalism corrupts intensely.

We argue these issues as if citizens had input. This is less and less so over time within our governmental system. Our elected and appointed officials are so corrupted and "compromised" because the norm has been shifted by the needs of business that rivals government in scale and exceeds it in wealth. As soon as income and property were in so few hands, only those few had any appreciable power to exercise. The disparity of power cannot be addressed through reform and compromise because the disparity of power is already so great that whenever the stays of law and regulation are loosened for change they cannot help but shift farther in the oligarchy's favor. It is almost like the laws of physics with the wealthy full of steam and the populace in a vacuum. The engine of capitalism is presently in danger of mashing labor flat within its giant cylinders.

Just look at health care. What was labeled reform, and an easing of the worker's burden, is now a carving up of Medicare, a welfare program for the 5 largest health insurers and a potential police action of mandatory consumption, with no non-corporate outlet or alternative. And this in the face of public opinion, where as many as 80% want Medicare for all. Michael Moore points out that any shortfall in entitlements arises from failure of big business and the wealthy to pay a requisite share, but all we hear is "Social Security is going broke!"
(By choice of the powerful)

So it seems we must move outside the current framework of governmental infrastructure to get relief. And since the corporate charter is the root of disproportionate power, lack of accountability and bad citizenship, it seems the logical place to start. Let's stop implementing caps on judgments against corporate entities and implement caps where they are needed, on capitalism itself. Corporate immunity and secrecy must be rolled back and size limited. (Corporations have been broken up before. This will be a global project benefitting most people and the environment.

The capitalism of small enterprise (your heating and cooling contractor, the independent clothing or food store (now rare), the skilled tradesman, the seamstress or tailor, the 100 employee shop, the family farm are all miraculous and wonderful capitalist things. But we have let big business bury these ideals. We can retain these while also employing people in state sponsored endeavors, worker owned manufacturing, co-operatives and so on. Where these things pop up is like a ray of sunshine through corporate clouds. We cannot survive within the violent storm of Empire. Fair weather comes! May we all be genuinely surprised at the new calm.

DaveG;

I am surprised at the relative calm and civil tone of your reply.I have always felt that unbridled capitalism could bring injustice and suffering,and that the ideal economic system would be a compromise including the better features of all the alternatives.I just think we need to be very careful as we make adjustments.Lost freedoms, rights,and incentives are usually impossible to recover.Instead of slamming capitalism in general,maybe we would be better served to go for the corruption of our elected representatives.As citizens we are all stewards of this system, faults and all.Whatever changes we make must be constructive.I can see many flaws(lobbyists for instance),but I wouldn't trade this system for any of the others.

Lee -

At one point in time 'capitalism' referred to being able to make money from an idea or invention.

thats a good definition of capitalism.

In our society today, capitalism has come to mean "capitalizing on your neighbors weaknesses to your advantage". Our modern day capitalism is not good for our society.

We dont tolerate 'survival of the fittest' amongst our people. We shouldnt tolerate survival of the fittest amongst corporate "citizens".

Seriously...You would probably claim that you support competition but what you fail to realize is that without some restrictions and rules, the ONLY thing you can end up with is LACK of competition. As the strongest corporations get bigger and bigger they are more easily able to devour any and all competitors. thats why we have anti trust laws.

Monopoloies are bad. didnt you ever play the game? It ends when one person has everything. It ends when one person has everything.

Dave;

While you are complaining about capitalism,don't forget that it is the system that allowed the United States of America to become the world's number one superpower,while affording the highest standard of living in the world for people here who call themselves "poor".Maybe you would prefer Venesuela's model.If Doctor Phil were there he would probably ask the people of that country,"How's that socialist dictatorship workin' for you now?"

Capitalism requires that the most greedy and selfish among us are the last ones standing.

thats why we make laws against such monopolistic predatory devouring of everyone and everything else.

Wow, Bill. What followers you have!


Show me one socialist who says he does not experience greed and I will show you a liar.


You teach your children to have pride, but not excessive pride. Likewise, it is excessive greed that destroys the soul. Whether you admit it or not, you teach your children to be greedy--to "get ahead", but not to be excessively greedy.


Now, the question becomes who is to decide how much greed is too much for someone else? It can't be done. You have no right to dictate what amount of absolute or incremental greed is too much.


The monopoly of capitalism is market dominance, which ends with creative competition. The monopoly of socialism is tyranny, which ends with bloodshed.

Posted by Kevin Totherow, "The people you see at the TEA parties all across the
country--those people are just plain Americans, not the puppets of Big Capital."
The facts, the Republicans that pledge and sign the contract "shows
by facts and figures... [TARP $700 Billions] there is no distinctly native criminal
class except Congress." -Twain


"ARMEY. Today we Republicans are signing a CONTRACT with America. We pledge ourselves in WRITING to a new agenda of reform, respect and renewal."
Bridge of contract, duties, intent, pledge, responsibilities, negligence etc.
are violation of the laws for not fulfilling the "CONTRACT"!
The corrupt justice system turned blind eye.

"Give me liberty or give me death." A school district denied the "students the
FREEDOM and LIBERTY to listen to the president speech!" The power of a "plain
AMERICANS" - class to indoctrinate the students to their political "BEIIEV and WILL!"
At the "TEA PARTIES,"
WOMAN: "No I said if they get out of my life."
WOMAN: "No, out of everything."
Was she just "plain American"?
Do we want to abolish the law and order - the police force? The Public schools?
The Social security, the transportation system, the public fire departments etc.
"Don't offer me a watered down Marxist deal!" "Are these watered down Marxist deal?"
The spirit of KARL MARX is alive, "it provides functions for social end economic
solutions in a contemporary society!"
"Why don't you start an organized way for working Americans to protest the Federal government runaway spending...!" We pay taxes and expect the government to operate as economically and
efficiently as possible for the benefits for ALL.
Have no doubt, people want "nothing but the best and to pay as little as possible"
for any services.
After spending trillions of dollars for the WAR, TARP, BONUSES the book by
Ralph Nader tell us "Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us!"
How wrong the public was in believing, that the GOD, RELIGION, EDUCATION
will save us? Did the printing press money economy broke down?

It was very well stated,"Dick Armey is the epitome of those people
with power and privilege who are insured against the vicissitudes
of life, and want no government assistance for any suffering ...
Except their own."



Watched the PBS special on healthcare tonight. I was blocked from posting at NOW's site. But it is probably due to a shortcoming in my own computer and not their fault. In any case, will post my comments here.

Show was OK, but the wrong questions and followups were asked. I laugh at the politician that suggest shopping around for an MRI or whatever it was will fix our woes.

If something cost $5,000 at one hospital, does he think it will cost $150 at another hospital? Well, maybe if one goes to Cuba?

Choice only goes so far. I needed a tooth capped. We have few dentist here. I shopped around and all were within $25 of the $850 cap cost. So big deal, I had lots of choices and the bill was still high.

The other M.D. politician suggested that neighbors help administer care. Well, fine, start selling people medical supplies, pain killer injections, syringes, scalpels, etc and maybe my neighbor or wife can cut out small skin cancer and cauterize it with a soldering iron.

We half joke / half serious discuss such options on the survival boards. But I thought it would only come to this when the SHTF (look it up)

Has America sunk so low?

http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-No-Doctor-Handbook/dp/0942364155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253848470&sr=8-1

Here is something to consider to broaden the minds of those stuck in the tunnel vision of their own little world.

I encounter such people when I discuss the Imperative Mandate (btw, not one word mentioned in the PBS special) these short sided people say "I like my med insurance, so all is fine with me." or "Sure, mandate that everyone buy health insurance or fine them."

Such people don't stop to think that many of the people in the uninsured camp were once insured. But through some hardship they can no longer afford the average annual premiums of $13,375.00.

You know, you may not have med insurance someday and be in the camp of the uninsured. And even if you are lucky enough to have some med pay, it may be shockingly different in benefits from what you have now.

"Kaiser forecast that the yearly family premium for health insurance could reach $30,803.00 in ten years if the 8.7% annual increase of the previous 10 years were to continue."

http://www.kff.org/pullingittogether/091509_altman.cfm

Will the fines related to the governments 'Imperative Mandate' increase as well on a pro-rata basis with the rise of premiums? If so, they would grow to a fine of $8,750 per year for those that can't afford a $30,803 a year premium.

And lets go out a further 10 years. Now, the average premium is $70,939.00 per year at an 8.7% annual increase.

Some of you say that is ridiculous?

Well, why so?

If it has happened on a continual and regular year in - year out basis for decades...what will stop it?

Betsy wrote, "Those who want justice and true freedom, within America for pete's sake, have to fight just as hard as the military to reclaim our rights from Washington powercrats."

Ah yes, the "war" within...I had to laugh at how many bullets have been sold in the past year.

It's the 187,000 mercenaries who walked out of Iraq as millionnaires. That's what started the stock piling - the "private army" of corporations.

Now the mercenaries are back here in USA and the REAL military of 18 year olds escaping institutional poverty are over there protecting opium fields and oil.

I know who is who in my town - do you, Betsy? Or are you talking down to us from "heaven"...?

Kudos, Bill Moyers, for telling truth to power. So Dick Armey really has been insincere and dishonest all these years. Who knew! The time for passive acceptance has passed. Those who want justice and true freedom, within America for pete's sake, have to fight just as hard as the military to reclaim our rights from Washington powercrats.

The only health plans worth having are either the one congresspersons have, or HR676.

It's time for people to claim their right to medical care.

NLF wrote, I think, but maybe it looks like I wrote the same thing - LOL) :

"I am in Arizona and am sueing the employer in the federal court. Although everybody in the government system and the private system has told me to get up and run, I will still fight it although I have no clue of the court system."

It's not because everybody is a big chicken and you are braver. Study up WHY you will lose read the posts here on this site under the topic - "Balancing Big Money and Free Speech".

And pay attention to Sotomayor's arguments when you follow the link to the Supreme Court site...you might not have the "friends" you think you have in the halls of justice when it comes to being a nurse who got fired.

Allenwrench wrote, ini part, "There are many other factors at play to drum up new 'forced biz' for the HMO's."

When all options are on the table, and nut jobs were considering letting industries like "railroads" and "autos" disappear, health insurance companies are to be made more predatory than they already are?

Restoring "trust" is no longer talked about, is it?

Thailand lowered its unemployment from 10% in January to 1.8% now.

Meanwhile, they're still sucking up all they can in real estate to cover 40 times over leverage. Houses selling for 15K in Detroit. Bernacke extended the buying of mortgages today because unemployment was extended.

It is an utter and complete hate-based economy.

Dickie A. should be arrested for conspiracy to start a riot, shouldn't he? And the leverage geniuses should be arrested for conspiracy to bring down USA infrastructure.

Jeffersica Pointdexter:

I wrote the same thing you wrote. I am in Arizona and am sueing the employer in the federal court. Although everybody in the government system and the private system has told me to get up and run, I will still fight it although I have no clue of the court system.

My one point is that nobody accuses me of wrongdoing and keeps it on my record. I will fight and when I lose, I will take pride in that I had done my best.

This "Will to work" rule is a slave law, and all these senators and congressmen made-up this rule. They should be treated with this kind of law, whenever they prostitute themselves, by having illegal affairs.

Why bother with trying to "Democratise" the whole world when there is a BIG BEAM in your eye.

I am apalled at this hyprocracy.

DaveG&Grady;

I really hoped at least one of you were capable of a more intelligent response.It's beginning to look like the Huffington Post around here.Somebody please open the cellar door and let some light in on these guys.

Respectfully, Lee

An interesting concept the gov has invented here. Check it out Moyers and do a show on it, if it is in fact true.


http://www.justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Obama-Health-Bill-Allows-Government-Real-time-Access-to-Bank-Accounts.html

Apparently, forcing Americans to buy healthcare has been in the works for a long time.

I recall something about forced healthcare back in the pre elections with McCain talking about it. In any case, here is something about forced health insurance back in May of '09. way before Baucus brought it up

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=1222

There are many other factors at play to drum up new 'forced biz' for the HMO's.

Some companies are now starting to limiting med insurance to 'actual employees' and not family members. So insurance would be mandated for every family member not covered under the employees plan.

Companies are trying to fill jobs with part-time workers, so they do not have to offer med benefits. So the old full-time now converted to the part-time workforce will be in the forced healthcare camp.

And once the forced healthcare plan goes through, the HMO's will have a captive audience to raise fees on a continual basis, just as your cable provides raises fees every January like clockwork.

The trend with your average health plan is to make it so the insured never uses it. The deductibles are high and will continue to rise. So the insured pays for the majority of the med bills other than catastrophic hospital stays. And there are so many loopholes that excuse the insurance companies from having to pay claims.

But, isn't that the dream of every insurance company? To collect premiums, yet never have to pay out any claims?

I was curious how much a healthcare plan would cost me and my wife. I have not had med insurance since the late 1980's since I can't afford it. Back then it cost about $75 a month for Kaiser. Although my wife has had med insurance off and on with jobs she had.

I called BlueCross Blue Shield, whose slogan is "Be part of the solution - Support healthcare reform"

http://www.bcbs.com/

This was the quote I received for a husband and wife age 55.

$500 deductible. After deductible BCBS pays 80% and insured pays 20% for doctors visits. And CO-pay for doctor visits is $25 after deductible.

Yearly premium: $14,490.84

Same plan as above with $5000 deductible

Yearly premium: $9778.20

...I can see why BCBS support mandatory health insurance proposal.

Lee -
quote from you:
I wish I could better understand the context in which you present that question.I don't know for example if you include voluntary military service.Please rephrase and dumb it down for me.
endquote.

thats kinda my point. You include Glenn beck and Rush Limbaugh as two of
your "only remaining sources of factual news in America".

President Obama made a call for people to get involved with volunteering to
help out in America at the Americorp.gov website here:http://www.americorps.gov/

On the same day Rush Limbaugh claims that Obamas call for voluntary service
is a subversive socialist plot to advance the liberal agenda here: http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200909110023

and then there is Glenn Beck who has also concluded that Americorp is evil.
just one of his opinions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgSBumvA11M&eurl


Both Beck and Limbaugh will spout off on some issue which they know little to nothing
about and they say ridiculous things (like the idea that Americorp is a liberal socialist plot)
and they push these ridiculous views as long as they can and when people outside
their little group of faithful followers start taking notice and debunking their BS then they
move on to yet more BS.

they get disproven on a regular basis but they hardly ever acknowledge it. this has the
very bad effect that their listeners will no beyond a shadow of a doubt that some valid argument
was made (even though it wasnt) and that they have the right to be angry (even though they
usually dont).
Id be willing to bet that you are still angry that their will be 'death panels' and the liberal
media isnt covering that issue. You are probably angry about a lot of totally false issues.

Beck and Limbaugh both call themselves 'commentators'. Beck has stated that he doesnt do
any fact checking (see the View 'ambush'). Beck is a story teller. Hes nothing more
thanthat. Conservative journalists are starting to call him on it.

So if you're too timid to scapegoat people of color, or immigrants who do the repulsive tasks, then lump all Palestinians together and blame them for the Inside Job (9/11). I smell the Reichstag ashes and the "ovens" on someone's hands. Or do you selectively deny historical events? Swine flu is on you; wash yer hands, wash yer hands, wash yer hands...
Some people make only a pretense to discuss, then restate talking points. (Dave G. will never be able to "dumb it down" enough.) Who am I talking about?
I call no name but then pigs will squeal when their tails are pulled.

Dear Mr. Moyers,
Those individuals who disrespect you have no respect for themselves. As Shakespeare, God rest his soul, would have said “Mr. G. Ingersoll speaks an infinite deal of nothing”. Mr. G. Ingersoll, could you kindly enlighten us on the meaning of a civil discourse? One might tolerate ignorance out of compassion, but one must never tolerate disrespect.

DaveG;

I wish I could better understand the context in which you present that question.I don't know for example if you include voluntary military service.Please rephrase and dumb it down for me.

While I'm here I would like to echo the sentiment of Arianna Huffington as she wrote on her post "Thank You Glenn Beck".I agree.Thank you,because when you turned on the light the cockroaches(Van Jones) vanished.I'm looking forward for you to cast more light in the area,because as is known about cockroaches,when you see one there are usually many more.

Mr. Moyer - if you think the person/people behind the march are bad or have a bad agenda - then why don't you start an organized way for working Americans to protest the Federal government runaway spending and continued laws on how private lives of citizens. I would come to your march too. I would enjoy civil debate of any issues with you or any liberal pundit - and I am just an engineer and businessman. I do read however, am an astute historian and I am a conservative first - and Republican, not because they are right but because they are less wrong than Democrats. BTW: saw your interview with Sam Tanenhaus. Educated, intellectual, prejudiced, wrong. I'd love to chat with him too. Ciao

Lee -

Is voluntary service to your country socialist?

Christine Hartley -

You might also enjoy:
http://glennmccarthybeck.com/2009/09/09/funding-becks-witch-hunt/

Grady;
I used to like Jimmy Carter in spite of his incompetence as president.I thought of him as a well meaning and kind humanitarian.I have a very vivid memory of the mountains of fire and debris slowly cooking and cremating the particle-sized remains of 3000 Americans,while simultaneously viewing footage of Palestinian men women and children,singing and dancing in the streets,in celebration of the event.Jimmy carter seems to love these people,that's why I feel he would be very happy there.He could could use some of our tax money Obama is giving them to build houses and call it Habitat for Hamas.I do not assume to know what is in people's hearts.There is a very real possibility that Joe Wilson may in fact be a racist,however that is totally unrelated the very obvious fact that Obama is a liar,and a very frequent liar at that.All you have to do is listen.Some of us do not believe in hell in the afterlife,or seventy-two virgins either for that matter.we are hoping to avoid hell here in the USA.

Lee wants to exile elderly Jimmy Carter to Gaza (not exactly the West Bank). It was not the Palestinians who made Gaza a living Hell or Jimmy Carter that made Congressman Joe Wilson a racist. It was ill-informed or frightened or xenophobic people who elected Wilson, and parasites like Senator Joe Leiberman, who embarrassed the rest of us. Lee, you need better candidates, maybe awoken ones like Jimmy Carter. (He is only trying to avoid Hell, in the Afterlife. Are you?)

In addition to Mr. Armey's hand in the "astro turf" movement to undermine healthcare reform, please check the following link. It names names of the sponsor of misleading commercials and allows one to "follow the money" to those who believe their way of life is threatened when the lives of many are improved. "Americans for Prosperity"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/drm604/44

This post enraged me. I think every member of Congress should give up their government sponsored healthcare plan until the healthcare debate is resolved. Particularly, if their healthcare is being subsidized by my tax dollars. It's absurd that our representatives, who do nothing to represent us collect big, fat welfare checks while whining about big government. Are they insane, or are we, the people insane? It looks more and more like we, the people need to begin making demands of our representatives.

It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native criminal class except Congress.
– Mark Twain

In no time at all, our personal lives would running just as smoothly and efficiently as our politicians run our government.

Posted by: George Corneliussen


That would be great! Who doesn't want to have their own rigged slot machine?

After decades of observing politicians, I've noticed that they never answer a question put to them with a simple yes or no answer. Also, I've noticed that while the answers they give are factual, they are in no way related to the actual questions put to them . I've come to the conclusion that this must be one of the perks of their chosen profession. How else can we explain the fact that no one ever rejects the answers politicians give despite the fact that their answers are in no way related to the questions ?
Wouldn't it be nice if we were all politicians ? None of us would ever be required to answer a question with a simple "yes" or a "no" again, no matter who was asking the question or how important the question was. Think of how much of a "value-added" perk this would give to our lives. Say, for instance, we were driving drunk and a police officer pulled us over and asked , " Have you been drinking ?" Instead of risking the negative repercussions of a " Yes." answer or the guilt of a "No." answer, we could instead answer, "Officer, while I believe drunk driving is a serious offense, I do not believe the people of this country support the current tax on alcohol proposed by the driver in the car behind me". By accepting this technical, but not specific, answer to the question, neither the police officer nor the drunk driver need pursue the issue further, saving everyone involved time, money and resources. Imagine how much more enjoyable our "life experience" would be if we had the same ability to answer questions in the same format our elected leaders currently use. In no time at all, our personal lives would running just as smoothly and efficiently as our politicians run our government.

I want to respectfully suggest Mr. Carter consider travel to Gaza for an extended vacation(the rest of his life),the vacation of course being ours.They might even let him fire a rocket or two.I watched Mr. Tannenbaum's continuously fixed smile as he spoke wistfully about the death of conservatism.I wondered if his plastic surgeon is the same one Nancy Pelosi uses.Some salesmen and politicians never stop smiling,'just a little creepy.Sean,Mark,Glen,Rush,and a few other similar people are now the only remaining sources of factual news in America.I noticed that the last statement by Moyers' last guest was an expression of his concern that the insanity of the birthers might bring things down in a very bad way.Hmm,surely he didn't mean that President Obama might have to produce one,nah,I don't think that's what he meant.

Jack Martin wrote, in small part, "Esoteric procedures and customary tricks of con artists might be inspirational to the system, but it is the wholesale manipulation of rules and standards through governmental regulation and deregulation that have the greatest effect."

So much effort to say what everyone is really thinking - "the inmates are in charge of the asylum".

And it really is an asylum, isn't it? A well guarded fortress surrounds the place where "math" spits out factoids like "collectively, USA households lost 12 trillion dollars in value".

And Timmy G follows up with "Yes it's unfair." But you can hear the na-na-na-na-na of a vicious geek saying in his head the rest of the sentence - "...and there's nothing you can do about it..."

You'd think that maybe that kind of info would go viral and be repeated as often (what? a million internet hits, or more?) as the tennis match brouhaha.

But nope. The tennis match brouhaha is that photo op that VISUALLY PROVES that 12 trillion was lost because every household in the USA is occupied by "stupid" people who don't know how to maintain the twin sister of Ms. Greed, Ms. Cheap.

"Why are Americans so angry?"

uh, because we're stupid?

Now can I get a job at the asylum? That was the right answer, right? I have the cheat sheet that says it is!

Enter in the "faith based" provided $$$ ala Warren Jeffs...they're STILL following the dogma that a delusional from thirst in the desert prophet wrote down - WOMEN don't have the right to "own" a house...a dogma which inspired me today to go throw the bird in my tree out of her nest and take the eggs she was sitting on to go throw the eggs at the neighbor I disagree with politically. Hey, I just wanted to help "feed" him. But then the neighbor on the other side called PETA and said the bird has a right to a nest. And guess what? I think she works for the IRS and her husband works at the bank. Ooops. There goes my right to a nest.

Soon they'll be waking up to march off to the asylum and keep doing the math that disconnected both all human beings from receiving any "profit" and the necessity of "maintenance" - yes, even "built in obsolescence" is gone from the math formula.

Go ahead and pass another scam in favor of for profit "health" care.

Guess it's not clear that there are no eggs left in the nests, huh?

That's how bad the math is. They don't even KNOW there are no eggs left.

Your Friday show with author Tanenbaum and later the union movement specialists was a welcome dose of information and insight into social movements and current political crises(s) in the U.S.. There has been a paradigm shift in the way Americans look at our government and ourselves, away from a shared culture and reverence for our ability to work together to achieve goals, to the shouting, blaming, irresponsible and violent finger pointing of the mob in Washington last week. We have been small business owners for 40 years, and saw the shift during the Reagan years, when his administration hammered our business with new taxes while giving tax cuts to the big corporations. Nixon and Reagan both worked to insure that health insurance became a "for profit" industry. Year after year of "reforms" slanted to aid the wealthy corporations at the expense of the middle class, all came to a peak in the last Bush presidency.
When will the middle class and the poor realize that they are being led by a group who care for the rich only? Obama is not exactly a heroic warrior these days in his support to the most of us, but at least he makes a stab at trying to level the playing field.

"I have nothing against a community that is made up of people who are Polish, or who are Czechoslovakians, or who are French Canadians or who are blacks trying to maintain the ethnic purity of their neighborhoods. This is a natural inclination." April, 1976


How do you feel about Carter's opinion?

Posted by: Prospector


It certainly kept out the drug dealors, pimps, and other sub-prime ingredients to be a tight knit community! And we are talking about self-sufficient peoples from civilized countries establishing free trade within the big picture economy.

Also, "ethnic" people liked to be clear about the deployment of violence (war) to clean out the 'hood.

The current media frenzy to create mindless street violence is psychotic. No one has a moral obligation to "tolerate" psychotic behavior - even when "power" can still be achieved through depravity.

Ben -- "And today you have Rush Limbaugh calling for a return to a segregated bus system."

Ben, I don't listen to Limbaugh and the other opinion entertainers, but I do listen to important men like President Carter. Back when he mattered, he said:

"I have nothing against a community that is made up of people who are Polish, or who are Czechoslovakians, or who are French Canadians or who are blacks trying to maintain the ethnic purity of their neighborhoods. This is a natural inclination." April, 1976


How do you feel about Carter's opinion?

Let me jump ahead to preview an upcoming Journal segment, one not yet scheduled, but which may be in the nascent planning stages. It concerns the Obama Administration’s Financial Consumer Protection Agency as described by Elizabeth Warren, a sometimes Moyers guest, a commonsense Harvard professor and chairperson of the panel reviewing the bailout and stimulus.

This is important because “radical conservatives” have wished for failure, and predatory corporations are astro-turfing the field of discourse. The shoes on the ground may not understand that failure of the economy under President Obama will include their households.

Astro-turf leaders and business advocates are already saying that this new agency will “stifle innovation.” The fearful element with the “you lie” signs need to realize that if they are being oppressed by the machinery of government, that they are also hemmed in by the power of big business to extract income from them, and that alliance with government has historically been their only defense.

A good way to examine their dilemma is to ask what is this “innovation” that is in danger of being stifled. But to do so we must, like a weatherman peering out the window, describe the economic conditions of scale in our country. Clearly, under the capitalism we enjoy, those who possess some wealth are eager to loan it at interest , for interest and related service charges are the primary basis for “unearned income, “ and no modern American would choose the “sweat of the brow” route as described in Genesis. Even an apartment lease consists of a contract to loan a tenant the use of minor specific real property for a limited time. Those not possessing sufficient wealth are faced with the sting of interest every way they turn.

The withdrawal of credit in this current recession was said to be like a mighty engine suddenly losing all of its lubricating oil. So Elizabeth Warren is worried that bad oil has been added that is corroding our economic engine. We may suffer another mishap down the road. This is vital because wealth and income are so widely gapped between the haves and the have-nots, who outnumber them ten to one, that widespread easy credit has become absolutely necessary to commerce as currently conducted.

If we examine the simplest elements of financial education, it is those who possess accumulated wealth who stand to benefit from our current business culture, the established institutions, and the roles to which our society is accustomed. Warren is concerned that these tendencies have produced such a strong imbalance that the future of the system is undermined. “The rich get richer…” goes the old folk saying, but how rich does the oligarchy have to become before the system seizes up and collapses inward? It is after all, a structure composed of real workers and households, goods and services; and rules: It is as fragile as the flesh of the workers and the morality of the wealthiest investors.

Those lacking funds to “invest” (loan out) in some fashion are doomed to exist paycheck to paycheck (when employed), and to have a healthy bite taken from even that meager income (as interest and service charges) whenever they are forced to borrow. If an evolutionary winnowing were in progress it might be seen as detrimental to the process to protect the interests of these “losers,” and maybe even more merciful to speed the process. But what we have is parasitism and not winnowing, so that it is in the interest of the extractors to prolong the process (suffering?) as much as possible. (Sounds sadistic doesn’t it?)

So again, what is this innovation? Esoteric procedures and customary tricks of con artists might be inspirational to the system, but it is the wholesale manipulation of rules and standards through governmental regulation and deregulation that have the greatest effect. Say my net worth is 20 million dollars. Such is the minimal fortune today with the means of legally and strategically defending itself. If said monies are encumbered or somewhat illiquid even the sum of 20 million dollars is in danger of withering away just from the frictions of present day commerce. So, lesser fortunes unprotected by governmental regulation are like a paper boats in a mighty river of global exchange; a few survive in the short term, but most are immediately awash: Awash in debt.

Pension funds and such-like are invested by managers. Small holders have little choice or comprehension so that they resemble retail customers. (Warren wants to protect retirement accounts.) So, when we discuss the volitional economy we are speaking of those individuals and concerns, well-managed, in excess of 20 million dollars. Such is the threshold of a capitalist operator. And such little sums are the minnows, the creel even, in the great global capitalist pond.

Players with hundred-billions and trillions establish the milieu. And the result is, as expected, substantially to the advantages of scale. The innovations they approve become general operating procedure all the way down to the used car lot and the payday loan office. And yet, the giant operators are able to step outside governance and dabble in a gray world of “black money” to produce inexplicable miracles and wonders within the mundane mercantile universe. (Regulation of high crime is presently beyond government capacity, so we must deal with the visible system only.) Usually, it is the upstart competitor who suffers the rebuff of applied regulation. Yes, in the realm of great wealth there exists an active winnowing; and such has become the role of modern government under implied contract: Implied by economic bribery and blackmail.

(Let’s be optimistic!) Well, say I have 20 million dollars, and that I am able to loan out 10 million for real estate development and new industrial enterprise. I must hold the rest for my upkeep and ready for legal and tactical defense. But a billionaire (at threshold) can leverage his entire worth with impunity, multiplying its force 30 or 40 times, using corporate and banking vehicles, by derivative and credit default swap agreements. A large tower of obligative potential indebtedness is thus built, poised to fall on the citizenry in general. (Towers crumbled last year and our government rushed our future income to the rescue. No regulation to prevent a replay has since been enacted.) Billionaires and greater continue to bet all likely outcomes of a proposition, and the highest “unearned income” may result from a general disaster in any or all economic sectors. This liability continues to metastasize at a geometric rate. The wealthiest one tenth of one percent of humanity then can become ten to one hundred times wealthier than they formerly were at the expense of us all. That is truly Innovation! (How long before the well runs dry?) And yet, misinformed homeowners and social security recipients will bustle to street rallies to complain that caps on credit card interest and plainly worded mortgages are socialism.)

Simultaneously, shenanigans at a lower level go by the name innovation. When banks add new credit card fees, raise interest terms and shorten the billing cycle, this too is called innovation. Innovation is interest only mortgages with pending balloon payments, multiple late charges on consumer loans and unsecured checks where funds arrived only minutes late due to digital limitations. But what we might term knit-picking innovation agglomerates into vast amounts because the majority of us are its victims. What Elizabeth Warren has chosen to tackle first is this nickel and dime taxation (without representation) levied by your corporate creditors.

Elizabeth Warren is the best of upper middle class women, but is loathe to attack the greater superstructure established by mega-billionaires and their corporate vehicles. As a government servant she sees the smooth freeway corporate financial vehicles speed upon as the very embodiment of the “success ethic” capitalism we are trained to adore and depend upon. The big players make the rules in our global chicken house, and government dances within that framework: Such is conditional security.

The welfare of the big owner driving his corporate behemoth on the economic freeway exacts a heavy toll, for the working people outfit that owner and build that exclusive freeway through twin governmental and corporate taxation, and they forgo many fruits of their labor, so that the oligarchy will not suffer any outlay to underwrite or insure itself. And this is what financial innovation really means. We have returned to a feudalism of industrial strength, where we serfs pay extortion to a royal class, and obligate our offspring generations to an increasing debt. Does Elizabeth Warren understand that?

It is not as if these “innovations” (really taxes and extortions) at either the knit-picking level or in the oligarchic heights amount to intellectual property, unless the recipes of scheming frauds and deteriorating ethics, and the systematic planning of mass crimes have become intellectual property. To the typical working American these things amount only to puzzlement and misery, anxious fears. Elizabeth Warren can sense these things and see the statistical results in falling incomes and rising unemployment, swelling poverty and lack of access. She hopes disciplining the knit-pickers will be enough to save our economy.

The saddest irony is that the segment of society who wishes Obama to fail doesn’t realize that they too might be sucked down the drain. But they have a genuine gut feeling of distrust stemming from the crimes of the oligarchs and their government accomplices. The segment that supports Obama believes fixing the small injustices will be sufficient, but it will not. Both segments are manipulated and misinformed. The advocates of failure and of minor regulation actually share the same interest but are unwilling to risk their security and tiny nest eggs to correct the real problem. The failure advocates scapegoat minorities and the minor regulators scapegoat the failure advocates. Both groups are living on half-truths and borrowed time.

Mr Moyers,
You asked Tanenbaum why the conversation in the media is now being dominated by conservative voices.. Mr. Tanenbaum gave a crazy answer that did not get even close to the reality of our times. Why don't you do a favor for journalism and be a man...grow a pair of balls for gosh sakes.... Call up Levin, Linbaugh, Beck and any other of these Leading "voices" and interview them. It is interesting to note that Mr. Tanenbaum as a book editor for the NYT works for the very section of that paper that has not done book reviews of the No. 1 best sellers these conservative authors have written. Its time for you to ask the questions of these people and then LISTEN.

I was Born in Cleveland Ohio, moved to Birmingham Alabama in 2000. I've notice the media with Larger sponsor pick and choose who and what's too be reported. The really problem is the Right two work laws States have put in place. Which gives them all rights and employees none. Corporate America wants GM and American car makers to disappear. Then unions will disappear. Thank you for your form I wish more America would see it.

Why didn't I see this on TV Friday night? These are important facts the public really needs to know. Thank-you, Bill, for being the voice of facts and reason. Please air this commentary so more people will see it.

Naomi, you want Michelle Malkin and Sean Hannity to serve up the "conservative" response? As I said, you've completely missed the point. Those are precisely the type of hollow talking heads that Tanehaus is referring to when he discusses the complete lack of ideas emanating from today's conservative movement. Malkin is an angry xenophobe, and Hannity simply espouses a contradictory view to whatever is being proposed by the left. This is not a "movement", nor are they an appropriate counter to tanehau's argument. In fact, they are the living, breathing definition of what he is talking about.

And today you have Rush Limbaugh calling for a return to a segregated bus system. These people aren't conservatives, they're just nuts.

Naomi, you want Michelle Malkin and Sean Hannity to serve up the "conservative" response? As I said, you've completely missed the point. Those are precisely the type of hollow talking heads that Tanehaus is referring to when he discusses the complete lack of ideas emanating from today's conservative movement. Malkin is an angry xenophobe, and Hannity simply espouses a contradictory view to whatever is being proposed by the left. This is not a "movement", nor are they an appropriate counter to tanehau's argument. In fact, they are the living, breathing definition of what he is talking about.

And today you have Rush Limbaugh calling for a return to a segregated bus system. These people aren't conservatives, they're just nuts.

Health care reform is long over due and remains a huge black hole in our American heart. Until a reasonable system of health care is available to all, we should all feel ashamed. The world is watching our citizens resist what should be fair for all and back the corporate profit$ that have driven health care co$t$ to impo$$ible level$. I once thought apathy was the problem, until I heard the loud mouth idiots yell out socialism & commuism, etc... these same idiots yelled out the same crap with Medicare & Medicaid. Capitalism or competition is not the American way because Democracy can not exist with unbridled greed. Health Reform is the ultimate conflict between the rich & the poor. The middle class is stuck between giving their hard earned tax dollars to the filthy rich or to the less fortunate. Personally I prefer that my tax money goes to help those in need rather than support the lifestyles of the filthy rich. Instead of people being angry at the rich for confiscating all the wealth without paying taxes, they blame the poor for taking more than their share. This will never make sense to me... Lets think about it, instead of blaming the guest who ate most of the pie, you get upset with the ones left to eat the crumbs. What's going on?

Well, I'm sure this will go nowhere, but I have to try: public TV here has 5 different streams of video (if that's the correct term) on their over-the air signal. This is just terrific programming. However, I can no longer print out a weekly guide from my computer using the PBS web site, and the station only supplies a guide for one of the streams, the one that is already listed in the TV guide in the paper. I used to be able to print out a guide for the whole week, one sheet for each stream. It was great - if I missed Bill Moyers, I could look over the guide and see if it was on another stream later in the week. Now the only way I can catch it is to constantly watch the onscreen guide on my TV. I would have to check it every few hours all week. Screw that. PBS has taken a GIANT step backward.

Dave G wrote..."Why in the heck are we(mankind) subserviant to any man made thing? both money and corporations are man made things."

------------------------------------------------

Why Dave?

Because we are not self sufficient.

TURBO Capitalism as Moyers or someone coined the phrase, has the populace in a stranglehold of sorts. They feed them bad food that makes them sick.

http://www.amazon.com/Super-Size-Me-John-Banzhaf/dp/B0002OXVBO

Then they make the healthcare unaffordable and work hard to keep them deep in debt.

So they MUST work and be demoralized and sick within that work and powerless to change their lives.

You see what they did to healthcare hopes Dave?

We had hopes of nationalized healthcare that would be affordable?

Now we hope they just do nothing, as the Imperative Mandate they propose would make thing much worse for many of us.

Many of us couldn't afford healthcare as it was. Now they propose we have to pay a multi-thousand dollar fine for not being able to afford healthcare.

Back in the day, (prairie and turn of the century) homesteaders were more of a self sufficient nature. Some raised cows and produced milk. If they had excess milk they made butter and cheese out of it. They may have traded the excess with their neighbors that had a bumper crop of potatoes and carrots. And others specialized in poultry and eggs and traded or sold their output with the farmer's making honey or maple syrup...and some did it all.

Sure, few were people were 100% self sufficient. They always looked to the railroad to bring in seed or other things. But they possessed a certain ability to survive that is lost within the society nowadays...a society that is obsessed with downloading the perfect ring-tone or fondling their electronic communication device in the sweaty little palms as they dream about what to buy next in the hopes of satisfying inner fulfillment with outer possessions.

Most of us have lost that skill of self sufficiency and we have shifted gears to be dependent on gov and a few other such as farmers or oil producers or China to take care of the whole pop of the US. The problem is, it is very hard to go back without causing a lot of pain. (Actually a lot of deaths)

Hell, the impotent people of modern day and age can't even make pancakes or peanut butter sandwiches and have to buy them ready made in the store...it's really scary.

Now maybe if our energy supply was stable and affordable and Peak Oil was not in our future and global warming was not an issue, things would be different and we could keep on consuming and expanding ad infinitum as our world overpopulates itself.

But...IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE TO DO A 180...Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption funded by unaffordable debt, we would fail as a country.

Our world is upside down. good, prudent and honest advice will bring our world down. The only thing to do to keep the Ponzi scheme going is to do just the opposite of prudent advice.

What would happen to our economy if we did as that poster suggested?

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/keepitlow456/victorygarden.jpg

Since our economy if fueled 70% by the consumer, we must stay in debt and consume by any means necessary.

We must make shoddy products that self-destruct quickly - so new products are in constant demand to keep the workforce of drones working.

We must not grow our own food and buy poisonous food from chemical laden farms.

And we must squander fossil fuels as fast as possible to keep the economy booming.

On an a more global level, lets say everyone becomes voluntary simplicity and frugal squirrel devotees. We recycle, reuse, repair and just say no to buying more crap. If we stop buying all the stuff that America imports from China - who keeps the 1.3 billion plus people in China from starving, so they do not go back to old ways of trying to take over the world?

We can see we have created a time bomb. Even the highest level brainiac economists can't fix what ails us. Our whole system is based on an unsustainable model that will eventually collapse no matter how much money that is printed up by the Fed. (...they don't even need to print money nowadays, all that needs to be done to create billions is to magnetize a silicon chip!)

Moyers, get Tony Benn on your show. He would enlighten many of your viewers to the real state of affairs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4&feature=related

Bill, I listen to your show religiously and have jokingly told my husband it should be required viewing for Americans of most ages. Mr. Tanenhaus' comments Friday evening raised my hackles however. I am a lifelong resident of South Carolina. I am white, middle aged and female. I voted for O'Bama and consider myself informed & free thinking. I am concerned about global warming, health care, the evangelical movement, and the obsession of this country with money. I am one of many in our fair state who try to stay informed in order to support appropriate sides of major issues. Mr. T's lumping all South Carolinians under the same label as supporters of the likes of Joe Wilson and those who would support seceding from the Union is narrow-minded and prejudiced. There is plenty of racial bias in the South (and in the North, West, etc.) but my opinion of Mr. T and his opinions dropped considerably when he painted us all with the same brush.

Bill, I listen to your show religiously and have jokingly told my husband it should be required viewing for Americans of most ages. Mr. Tanenhaus' comments Friday evening raised my hackles however. I am a lifelong resident of South Carolina. I am white, middle aged and female. I voted for O'Bama and consider myself informed & free thinking. I am concerned about global warming, health care, the evangelical movement, and the obsession of this country with money. I am one of many in our fair state who try to stay informed in order to support appropriate sides of major issues. Mr. T's lumping all South Carolinians under the same label as supporters of the likes of Joe Wilson and those who would support seceding from the Union is narrow-minded and prejudiced. There is plenty of racial bias in the South (and in the North, West, etc.) but my opinion of Mr. T and his opinions dropped considerably when he painted us all with the same brush.

Jane,

When people like you talk, we ought to know the millions of dollars you are holding on to or in shares.

America is you, and until, just like all other rulers beginning from time, who have ruled and have gone out of existence - like the Tartas, Romans, The Azstecs, the Anazasi, the British, and now Americans will soon never rear their head again.

Amen.

There will always be "Rick Wind Millers," till the end of time, but there is no time for the "Rick Windmillers" in todays society.

My one disappointment for all of The American society is this big bible they CUDDLE, and cradel in their arms like if not for it, there will be no tomorrow, is the constitution.

No other civilized country has a constitution, and they don't treat their people with slave laws. This system is implemented in all walks of the American society.

The excuses that the two people gave is that there must be somebody to fight for the rights of the people. They have "Civil Rights". What good does it do when people are being treated as dirt, fired for no good reason, and not given any form of help in the federal or state courts. They are completely ignored and stepped on, if they are not on par in defending themselves, from a lawyer who has 3 to 4 years experience.

You all call this "Democracy". Ask John Mccain why is Arizona having "The right to work state", and the "Will to" work rule implemented in THIS STATES LAW.

I hope its OK to post this here.

Its a youtube video from NewLeftMedia where they inetrview some of the tea party attendants. It just shows some of their perspectives in their own words. What I like most about the video is that they all had different reasons and some were diametrically opposed. Its kind of like the way Bill OReilly recently supported the public option. they're just 'against' whatever it is that Obama does. It doesnt matter what it is. they are just 'against' it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

one more thing...

I have a theory. I have no way of proving it.

Ive encountered a number of current day Republicans who listen to Glenn Beck and FOX news religiously and they all tell me that they used to be liberals. Some have stated that they attended rallies in the past to show their opposition to whatever it was they were oposed to at that time.
i wasnt 'politically aware' until about the time of Reagan. (and even then I had no idea)

I think todays right wing fringe IS yesterdays left wing fringe. they are the exact same people. they just claim to have switched sides. somehow I dont think it was they that went anywhere. Its all about how our politics are framed at any given time.

I used to be Republican. I thought they cared about people. that was my fault for not knowing.

I now support progressive democrats.

down with money! the love of money is the root of all evil.
down with corporations who only serve their own interests. let all corporations be good citizens. we dont tolerate bad citizens. why should we tolerate bad corporate citizens.

Why in the heck are we(mankind) subserviant to any man made thing? both money and corporations are man made things.

Does anyone think God is pleased with this direction we have taken as a nation to put such emphasis on money?

sorry...got off on a tangent...

My point Ben is that if you are going to have a liberal like Tanenhaus define conservatism, you'd better also have a conservative on your show to debate what conservatism really is. Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Michelle Malkin [whose book "Culture of Corruption" is on the NYTimes top seller list]would have served up far more balance to this debate than this one-sided drivel. Incidently, Sean Hannity also has brought ultra liberal Michael Moore on his show to debate the issues. Can't say the same for liberal shows like Bill Moyers, can we?

My point Ben is that if you are going to have a liberal like Tanenhaus define conservatism, you'd better also have a conservative on your show to debate what conservatism really is. Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Michelle Malkin [whose book "Culture of Corruption" is on the NYTimes top seller list]would have served up far more balance to this debate than this one-sided drivel. Incidently, Sean Hannity also has brought ultra liberal Michael Moore on his show to debate the issues. Can't say the same for liberal shows like Bill Moyers, can we?

This post is not about Dick Armey. Its about the tea partiers and FOX news.

Here is a quote from a New York Times article written in June of 2008 :
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/arts/television/28rati.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1214706226-ypwVnaLN3ssAG6z74IAgkQ&oref=slogin

quote:
Meanwhile, Fox's hosts have seemed to struggle on camera to find a new voice. Three times in less than three weeks in late spring, Fox acknowledged making inappropriate references to Mr. Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee. It said on June 12 that it should not have referred in an on-screen headline to Mr. Obama's wife, Michelle, as his "baby mama." Previously, a Fox anchor, E. D. Hill, apologized for likening a seemingly affectionate fist bump by the Obamas at a rally to "a terrorist fist jab," and a Fox analyst, Liz Trotta, expressed contrition for making a joke about a possible a.ssa.ssination of Mr. Obama.

Those comments notwithstanding, a pillar of Fox's strategy, at least in the weeks since Mr. Obama vanquished Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, has been to bash him relentlessly.

On Monday night, for example, the viewer did not even have to listen to an interview that Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes conducted on their prime-time program with Dick Morris, a Fox contributor who has written a new book, "Fleeced," at least partly about the Obama campaign. During the interview the screen flashed continuously with dire warnings set off in quotation marks - "Obama would take this country to the far left"; "Obama would open the door to illegal immigrants"; "Obama would lower penalties for dangerous drug criminals"; "Obama's tax plan 'might trigger a stock market crash' " - apparently distilled from Mr. Morris's book.
endquote.


FOX has been pushing its viewers towards hatred of Obama for quite some time. It seems to me that some of it has to do with his race and some of it is simply that FOX news (Rupert Murdoch) want Republicans in power becuase Republicans are much more 'corporation friendly' than Democrats. progressive democrats are more interetsed in what is good for the people.
The tea partiers 'want their country back' from people who have not taken it. they are prepared to be violent and their reasons are wholly fabricated by people like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

Both Beck and Limbaugh have had interesting perspectives (SICK PERSPECTIVES!!!!!) on Americorp. Apparently FOX news, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh all consider service to ones country to be an act of socialism (and therefore wrong??).

I wonder if they know that they are making kids wonder "So why is socialism wrong if socialism is caring about your own country?"

Mike @ 12:16 what is the point of this conceit??? It goes nowhere;SHAME ON YOU.

Your attempt to throw a red-herring-curveball failed miserably. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. These cretins haven't a clue that DICK's intent is to further DICK'S agenda, and to hell with affordable healthcare for them. If he succeds, PRICES WILL DOUBLE W/IN A YEAR. Now that's evil.

As for the framing set up of Acorn, I ASK THIS: Where were these freaks when Bush's DEPT. OF INTERIOR were doing meth, and having sex w/ any and every slouching, belly-crawling, vermin-of-a-lobbyist they could sniff out?????? To hell w/ the republicons.......don't ever use the word CONSERVATIVE when reffering to the BUSH CORRUPT CREW. Gale Snortin' Norton will see jail time.

We record your show every Friday, and watch it at breakfast Saturday morning.

I WAS NOT SURPRISED to find that our local PBS in Tampa DID NOT air this show on Friday night. I AM MAD AS HELL, AND DEMAND AN EXPLANATION. The rest of you here who experienced the same censorship from your local stations, I ask you, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS???? ANYONE?? Mr. Moyers, any suggestions??

Peter Maier's post is particularly interesting. These protesters are incredibly tribal and run on emotion and instinct, IMHO, not logic.
There are over seven billion of us on this planet. We have to think bigger than tribal and display global cooperative behavior. This is not the opposite of freedom. It is survival.

If a politician's hypocrisy meant their cause was automatically wrong, then you would have to say environmentalism is wrong because Ted Kennedy refused to let there be any windmills on the horizon that would have been visible from the Kennedy compound.

And it's a cheap shot to pick out a few of the dumber looking protesters, certainly many of the people who show up to leftist protests are dirty and smelly communists, does that mean that everyone at their protest was stupid?

Dick Armey is a bad person but it doesnt mean that the protesters are wrong or deserving of your disrspect in this piece. Do you think ACORN is all bad because some of their members tried to help put latino children in sex slavery? of course not. shame on you!

I listened to your discussion with Zweig and Fletcher--organized labor, "social justice," and the "irrational" Right. In the atmosphere of your discussion, you would probably label me a member of the Irrational Right. In fact, I am simply a concerned American--well educated in the fields of cultural anthropology, sociology and linguistics, a small businessman, science consultant. I found it very interesting that for all their pleading that workers want the brand of social justice offered by Big Labor and the dire need for "reforms" thwarted by the Irrational Right, there was no mention of the vastness of corruption found in Big Labor and their community organization partners both historically and at present. There were no statistics to back up any of their claims that "Capital" is suppressing the worker except for a few isolated examples--and that what we are seeing today is a continuing class struggle. There was only the vague mention of some history of militantcy in the labor movement today and that past resistence to Marxist philosophy in the United States was labelled as "witch hunts." Please, gentlemen. Don't insult my intelligence. The plain truth is that the "social justice" espoused by the Left cannot survive without Americans giving up many of the constitutionally guaranteed freedoms that we enjoy. The people you see at the TEA parties all across the country--those people are just plain Americans, not the puppets of Big Capital. The Radical Left is obviously afraid of just plain Americans. Why else would they attempt to smear our efforts to put our country back on the track of a constitutional government. Instead, we are labelled, "Right Wing Extremists." We simply want our country back from the restrictive noose offered by the Left. We like our country of opportunity. We don't want the central government to make decisions for us. We don't want the government to provide us with our needs, because that kills individuality and incentive. "Social Justice," straight and simple leads to depressed production and robs us of our will to grow and to be all that we can be as individuals in deference to the collective "good." Don't offer me a watered down Marxist deal. Give me liberty or give me death.

Why wasn't The Journal aired last night, 9/18, on KAET in Phoenix? Tavis Smiley was aired instead. No explanation was given, nor was this edition of The Journal rescheduled. I happened to see some of its content on the Huffington Post and the segment dealt with an expose of Dick Armey and his Freedomworks "Astroturfing" organization. Please tell me this program substitution was inadvertent and not content censorship. I see from another comment here that The Journal apparently did not air in Denver, either.

Why wasn't The Journal aired last night, 9/18, on KAET in Phoenix? Tavis Smiley was aired instead. No explanation was given, nor was this edition of The Journal rescheduled. I happened to see some of its content on the Huffington Post and the segment dealt with an expose of Dick Armey and his Freedomworks "Astroturfing" organization. Please tell me this program substitution was inadvertent and not content censorship. I see from another comment here that The Journal apparently did not air in Denver, either.

Dear Jane,

To answer your question, Vann Jones resigned due to public pressure stirred by the misinformation espoused by Beck and his friends. That says nothing about the veracity of their claims. Two, ACORN is not going out of business. In fact, it's shameful that organizations like that (which have done a lot of good for working/lower class families) are targeted in this manner. Moreover, it's even more depressing that a few scandals are used to define the entire organization. If we do this with ACORN, why not the Catholic Church? Why not the Republican and Democratic Parties? They all have experienced scandal, but are still viewed as legitimate. Finally, accusing liberals of name-calling and not conservatives is ridiculous. Both sides do it. It's apart of politics. By exclusively scolding Moyer's, you are revealing your own biases and exposing yourself as a partisan hypocrite.

G

Bill,

My wife and I were eagerly awaiting the "Bill Moyers Journal" last night to learn more about Dick Armey and "Freedom Works . . ." and waited and waited and waited. Well, it was NEVER shown. No explanation was given as to why, or that it would be rescheduled. It troubles me that public television would censor the news and, to cut such vital information from a program designed specifically to inform and NOT give opinions, is incomprehensible.

There are too many people in this country like the lady “who wants government out of her life.” And “out of e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g” who drove on a public highway, protected by public police to a public park to exercise her First Amendment rights and was able to be heard on Public Television. Do these individuals understand what Government does? And that the people, like Dick Armey, are using their tax money for his health care and retirement benefits, which are considerable.

I have to say that I went to the Huffington Post to view the Dickey Armey, “Freedom Works” segment because KRMA Denver did NOT carry it. I found it enlightening and should be used to combat the naiveté of those who want government out of their life. And to catapult health insurance or health care reform to the forefront of the legislative agenda to be done as quickly as possible (with the public option) for the benefit of all. Sincerely, IRC61

Bill,

My wife and I were eagerly awaiting the "Bill Moyers Journal" last night to learn more about Dick Armey and "Freedom Works . . ." and waited and waited and waited. Well, it was NEVER shown. No explanation was given as to why, or that it would be rescheduled. It troubles me that public television would censor the news and, to cut such vital information from a program designed specifically to inform and NOT give opinions, is incomprehensible.

There are too many people in this country like the lady “who wants government out of her life.” And “out of e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g” who drove on a public highway, protected by public police to a public park to exercise her First Amendment rights and was able to be heard on Public Television. Do these individuals understand what Government does? And that the people, like Dick Armey, are using their tax money for his health care and retirement benefits, which are considerable.

I have to say that I went to the Huffington Post to view the Dickey Armey, “Freedom Works” segment because KRMA Denver did NOT carry it. I found it enlightening and should be used to combat the naiveté of those who want government out of their life. And to catapult health insurance or health care reform to the forefront of the legislative agenda to be done as quickly as possible (with the public option) for the benefit of all. Sincerely, IRC61

Typical reaction from a Lib. Glen Beck is a liar,and American's are dumb. Name calling is a very frequent way of getting their radical views accross. If Beck lied, why is Acorn out of business and why is Van Jones collecting unemployment? Being a bully and name-calling is what libs do best, kind of like what goes on during recess at grade school.

Mr. Moyers,
After watching and appreciating your programs, I suggest you promote reading “The Naked Ape” by Desmond Morris, according to The Sunday Times in late sixties, life changing.
Dr. Morris is a zoologist and has studied the human being as the animal he/she is, surviving for thousands of years in social groups, called tribes. During the past 1000 years these much smaller tribes grew out to entire nations, but the tribal gene still impacts our individual behavior, clearly noticeable lately. Many societies (like in Europe) evolved from ‘similar kinds of tribes’ and that may explain why they now do not have any problems with what some in the USA calls socialism.
The latest developments, especially dealing with public healthcare, shows how easily one can manipulate this tribal gene in all of us and it would be especially interesting to see what will happen in the close future when people will have to share employment in the reducing labor markets of industrialized societies, where machines and computers can do work better and faster than humans.
If we really want to solve social problems, we first have to acknowledge the existence of this ‘tribal’ gene and try to neutralize its impact. A huge task for the media, but the question as always is, “can we handle the truth”?

Mr. Moyers,
After watching and appreciating your programs, I suggest you promote reading “The Naked Ape” by Desmond Morris, according to The Sunday Times in late sixties, life changing.
Dr. Morris is a zoologist and has studied the human being as the animal he/she is, surviving for thousands of years in social groups, called tribes. During the past 1000 years these much smaller tribes grew out to entire nations, but the tribal gene still impacts our individual behavior, clearly noticeable lately. Many societies (like in Europe) evolved from ‘similar kinds of tribes’ and that may explain why they now do not have any problems with what some in the USA calls socialism.
The latest developments, especially dealing with public healthcare, shows how easily one can manipulate this tribal gene in all of us and it would be especially interesting to see what will happen in the close future when people will have to share employment in the reducing labor markets of industrialized societies, where machines and computers can do work better and faster than humans.
If we really want to solve social problems, we first have to acknowledge the existence of this ‘tribal’ gene and try to neutralize its impact. A huge task for the media, but the question as always is, “can we handle the truth”?

Naomi - Way to completely miss the point. The very fact that you consider Sean Hannity a legitimate conservative speaks volumes.

Mr.Moyers,

I watched your show with Tanenhaus and it became abundantly clear to me that you appeal to the left-wing liberal kooks on this program using of course our taxpayer dollars [PBS]to promote YOUR liberal agenda. You would have had more creditability had you brought in a conservative like Sean Hannity on your show or even Rush Limbaugh to answer these false charges that your guest Tannenhaus was spouting off in his book. Social Security is going bankrupt, medicare is a mess, our education system indoctrinates rather than educates, the stimulus package is not working, cash for clunkers has fizzled to non-existence. Let's see now--what do all of these have in common...gee they are all government run programs. And now you want to add universal healthcare to the failed mix of government-run failures. Where does Tanenhaus think the money is coming from for all this? This is what conservatives are upset about.

It was good to hear Tanenhaus. Thank you.

It was also odd to hear him, since I have evaluated the situation much as he does but found him to sound like he was bluffing rather than spelling out the arguments. This is not a terrible thing, and one can recognize it and a vulnerability to fall into bluffing, particularly under the pressure of a stage presentation, but.... Does the center hold?

I had thought he was right. I thought there was a residual rabble of radicals who call themselves "Conservatives." I thought they were a shrinking group, and hoped they wouldn't kill our President or visit some other horrors on us before shriveling away.

Sam kept returning to these assertions, but didn't muster the supporting data or even clearly argue the assertions. He more rushed through them.

So what about the 2010 elections? What about the compromised "Centrists" now on The Hill? What about all the districts with large minorities of radical "Conservatives" and know-nothing Yahoos?

I was left feeling like understanding "The Death of Conservatism" is more an act of faith than of rationality. That scared me. I guess I didn't know the situation as well as I had thought.

Glen Beck of the Fox media held his rally for the right wing fringe to misinform Americans, and hail those who are ignorant and gullible enough to believe the nonsense he and his cohorts have dished out all summer.

It is time now for you, Bill Moyers,representing the PUBLIC MEDIA to rally true normal caring and knowledgeable Americans to a similar media event and rally us to present our case. You are an articulate, respected and credible reoprter, you are most well equipped to lead this rally.

PLEASE INITIATE THE CALL...WE WILL COME BY THE MILLIONS! The liberals...and I am proud to use that label...need a champion to lead us...not the compromising politicians...As a true and honest champion your leadership will educate Americans.

WE ARE WAITING! America is waiting

Dear Bill,

I wondered what question you might have asked Sam Tanenhaus about 'the corporation's influence on
the conservatism of the last 30-50 years.

Thanks for all the recent shows. Your are making a difference in confronting the questions of our social direction as a people and a country.

Sincerely yours,

James Donaldson

P.S. I'll see Sam K in October.

I enjoyed your Broadcast about the labor movement with Michael Zweig and Bill Fletcher. I believe the labor movement is struggling these days largely due to our global economy. We have some very highly skilled and hard workers in the country, but with labor rates around 1/10th the cost in foreign countries it is a hard sell to keep the jobs in our country for corporate America. I believe the Labor movement can can still bring a lot to the table for the American workers though, by encouraging the workforce to find new ways to add value into production in our country. An incentive base structure would help provide a reward for those that work hard, and encourage us all to pull our weight more. I worked at a plant with the UAW that was shut down due to contract negotiations breakdown. We need to prevent injustice within the Labor movement itself, for example, I've seen multiple instances where one person was working "Too Hard" and many others gave him a hard time because it was making the others look bad. I've also witnessed normal work hours being stretched out so overtime is required to finish out a shift. All the extra pay, on top of lack of efficiency was a large part of the decision to take the plant off line I was in. The truth is, with the Labor movements help, we can promote a more efficient work environment, and provide better job stability to benefit us all.

MISSING FROM THE CURRENT WILSON UPROAR IS ANY COMMENT ON THE SCOTCH IRISH FROM ANTIQUITY- A VIOLENT GROUP WHO HELPED THE GREEKS AGAINST THE PERSIANS, BUT BROUGHT VIOLENCE INTO THE SOUTH SUCH AS SOUTH CAROLINA. FOX BUTTERFIELDS BOOK IS THE POWERFUL CONDEMNATION OF HOW THIS RUTHLESS BEHAVIOR DESTROYED BLACKS AND THE SOUTH.
THE BARBARITY FEARED BY YOUR GUESTS TONIGHT MAY HAVE ITS ORIGINS SEVERAL MILLENIA PAST/ AND

A friend in Canada pays $38 a month in taxes for better care than I get for the $1000 a month I pay to an insurance company. I still have an annual deductable of $1200 and a co-pay for prescription drugs. Most of the young people I know do not have any insurance.

Readers in DC will know that these protesters against government spending complained to a congressman from Texas about DC's Metro (government funded, natch) not being quite prepared for 50,000 of them that Saturday.

The very definition of hypocrisy.

Enjoyed your video Moyers.

But it should be no surprise to anyone that Reps and as bad as the Dems and Dems are as bad as Reps. The ignorant American public gets sick of one party so it votes in another party and then acts surprised that the stink is still in DC?

Without cleaning out the cesspool, how can the stink disappear?

Do you remember what I told you last year and why I have not voted since the 1`970's?

Posted in 2008...

"Do we have a 50% chance of getting the right man in DC or a 100% chance of getting another lying rhetorician in the white house?"

Maybe my words don't seem so extreme now do they?

But, a socialized health plan was never really on the table.

It made good fodder to distract the public over the threat of turning America red.

The 'real plan' all along, may have been to enrich the HMO's with new 'forced' business and ram the latest scam, the 'Individual Mandate,' down the publics throats. I was told by one person that the lobbyists for HMO's have thrown more money at DC over this issue (healthcare related or not) than any other issue in history.

Lets take a look at how it all went down. After all, it is quite a change from what Obama promised. And links or no links for "hearsay" - actions speak louder than words or links.

From...

"Lets Spread the Wealth. Lets set up a Socialized Healthcare System for All Americans paid for by taxing the rich 5%."

To...

"All uninsured Americans MUST buy healthcare insurance. And you must submit such evidence of coverage on your tax returns to the IRS or you will be FINED a penalty up to $3800."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072103410.html

The hope of striking it rich, within a capitalistic society, is all that most citizen can cling to, as they go through a life of slavish dependence, working until they die.

Some of these worker drones may have given up the hopes of striking it rich long ago. Their hopes may be more along the lines of retiring in a one room sweat box and being able to afford some canned dog food to eat.

But the greedy Ponzi capitalists, along with the full faith and backing of the politicians, have taken that little dream away from many of the retirees as well. I often wonder how the old folks get by nowadays with 1/4 of 1 percent on money market funds and if they are lucky, maybe a whopping 1-1/2% in CD's.

Why are the rates kept so low? Can you imagine if the government had to pay high percentage rates on all their debt? so they keep the rates artificially low and to hell with the retirees.

If we look at the data, we can see that only 5% to 6% of the households are making more than $250,000 per year. That doesn't make them all rich, but we can generally say $250,000 a year would be a nice income for most of us reading this. (With mine being less than 9% of that figure.)

And if one is talking millions of dollars per year in income, then the figure is just a couple percent of the households in America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

So capitalism favors 1% to 2% of the population and the other 98% end up as slaves to the capitalists.

Now, I'm not promoting communism or any other extreme views. Even the so called selfless communist governments get weighed down with egocentric leaders. If one is selfless such as ants or bees communism works fine. It is only when human selfishness is injected into the equation that communism fails miserably.

The reason the ideal of communism fails is because imperfect humans have to apply the perfect ideals. Same goes with our imperfect democratic elected leaders. But the problem is not so much that we elect imperfect leaders, the problem is that we have no oversight committee to change the wrongs that they do. Nor do we have punishment for them for doing such wrongs.

Just look at Bush and the rest. As soon as they leave office, what is said? "Well, they may have done something wrong...but lets just move on."

Politicians have a free reign to rape and pillage the US and Americans as they wish...because there is NO OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE nor PUNISHMENT for the evils they do.

Socialism, in its most ideal form, puts society and social issues first.

Capitalism puts profits and greed first.

But the way things are set up, social ethics goes out the window, all in favor of the cult worshiping the almighty dollar. Social ethics cost money. And spending money for such things is against the capitalists religion. Capitalism is not the religion of humanity, it is the religion of greed, power and money.

That is just how things are. We may wish things were different. But wishful thinking will never change a thing.

Dear Bill,

As always, you deliver the goods. Problem is, the people who must hear this are the ones who tune into to the propaganda channel.

This man is evil, IMHO. Truly, truly, evil beyond comprehension. He should be ordered to state all this information in written, and spoken language before every speech this disgusting thug delivers.

HOW CAN WE MAKE THAT HAPPEN, CITIZENS???

You continue to be a beacon of truth, and hope in a country bereft of it.

mr. moyers. i have shared your concerns and opinions for many years and wish to express gratitude and admiration for your courage in the battle to shed light where it is so badly needed. yes, i am in the choir. but there is my concern. how can those "tens of thousands" who were at that unfortunate display of willfull ignorance be exposed to information based on fact when you are tucked away "over here" and hidden from "plain view" (meaning mainstream/broadstream news)? the logistics of light, eh what. jesus had no less of a problem with it. darkness spreads so easily; just ask carl rove and company. well...i do thank you. jb in denver

I recall a man named Dick-Army, taking out a contract on a man he called Barney Fagg. We saw into his heart that day, and he hasn't changed. (I was in working in the Capitol that day.)

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