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Web Exclusive: More from Mark Danner

The taping of last week's interview with journalist Mark Danner included more valuable insights and analysis than we could fit into the JOURNAL broadcast. In the web-exclusive video below, Danner shares his thoughts on the nature of evil:
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D.C.Eddy wrote, in part, "I think we are basically on the same wave length and I respect your opinions."

I try to get beyond "opinion" now and then to some rational explanations.

Basically, I came to the conclusion that something very UN-"Natural" dipped its toe in the "normal" and "natural" course of human events a long time ago.

Since WWII, "war" IS the technique of the selective extermination of the BEST human stock.

A lot of our "modern" problems have to do with the OVER-elimination of the "producers" of civilization by the CONSUMERS of civilization.

The "cabal" believes it has the magik formula for how many slaves it will need to keep the 1950s "economy" going "global" - forever and into eternity and will eventually suck up "paradise" into it's black hole :-))

That's NOT "knowledge" supplied by either "nature" or "nurture", or mimetic rivalry or any other "theory". Nor is that kind of "revolution" "revelational" from "god" or some other cosmic pool of "knowledge".

It's just nuts.

And it means that the selective elimination of the BEST human stock through WAR works.

That's it in a nutshell for me about why I am in the "peace" column instead of in the "war" column - for now.

IRONIC that in this global age of "communication", it's still the same news all day every day, ain't it?

We're all being held hostage by the crazy freekin' INMATES who do NOT want to "feel" better - they're freekin' happy as a pig rolling in mud to be in their free will HELL ON EARTH...

The numbers are very bad in the favor of the INSANE...

THAT'S the reality we are in, my friend. I'm with Obambi in this one - don't like ANY of the "options"...for EITHER "war" front...

Anna D.
I do not post AT you; I post in your general direction. If it applies; the "ball is in your court"...
While I believe there is a God from personal experience; it is my opinion that not only do we not know everything; we cannot know anything for certain. Everything we know is either nature or nurture. All of our knowledge is second hand.
I do believe that there is a central system of Universal Knowledge that is a source of knowledge and has the ability to create functional reality from random chaos. Many religious people do not understand that God has a free will and does things His way not ours.
I think we are basically on the same wave length and I respect your opinions.
It is my nature to say what i mean and mean what i say which means i am probably on lots of lists. While I often think I am "posting into the wind". I am hopeful that my words will not return to me void. (:-)>

The 911 tragedy, The Afghanistan tragedy, the Iraq tragedy, the typhoon tragedy and now the fort Hood tragedy were all The results of unpreparedness and wrong response.
Prayer is a good thing but it is meaningless if we fail do what is necessary to avoid problems and fail to do what is necessary to fix the problem. Leaving everything up to God and sticking our head in the sand, calling victims heroes and white washing failures does nothing to solve problems and prevent reoccurrences.


Posted by: D.C.Eddy


I'm not sure why you keep talking AT me in your posts...?

I'm "agnostic" about the "god" that the governor of Louisiana, for instance, who instead of using the school buses to move everyone to higher ground told them all to stay home and pray THE CORRECT WAY so that the eye of Katrina hits her neighbor states, instead. That was NUTS and no one mutinized against her to save their own lives and the lives of their neighbors - that's CRAZY. Crazy on both sides, right? Hers and everyone who followed that edict to "pray"...and who got put on the POLITICAL WTC (watch him/her closely) "list" by the crazies...? Those who did NOT believe in HER "god" and who did not obey? See, the "list" contains the COMMON SENSE people and/or, the list of people who weren't going to use the opportunity to watch how many days the "poor" would survive ("passive" elimination of the "weak" - then why did they live so long that everyone SAW the deliberate attempt to watch them die?). "Katrina" was the most revealing "natural" force in USA history - might take 1000 years, even in nanosecond time, to erase the "truths" of USA "religion" at that point in time.

I am also "agnostic" about the "god" that was used as "evidence" for land grabs and massive refuge-ism post WWII. Scheesh, if all the "isms" sprung from the protocols of darkness have imploded, in PRACTICE, in their own self-created dark hole, then what's TODAY's rationale - without those "isms" - for who has the right to "survive"...?

I am also "agnostic" about the supreme being god who has gifted my town with "global capitalism" - quagga from China. And then to bend our knee in homage to the global god, it is NOT registered as a "paying job" to pull that quagga out of the water intake valves...

I am NOT guilty of any of it - the chaos of darkness or the "unpreparedeness" or the "wrong response"...so why are you preaching AT me?

I wanted to put Usama up on the "pile" so that he could preach about HIS "god" in the proper context.

Putting aside your weird abuse of psychology AND religion - attaching the crime on to the survivor (not a "victim" - I WAS prepared and responded in a way that makes it possible for me to be typing to you today from the "mothership" and for all 5 or less people reading along to keep trying to trap me into some cut-n-paste proof of MY insanity). Nothing more dangerous than a "survivor", though, is there?

Enough useless psycho-babble techniquing...here's THE point du jour...

The origin, the genesis, of ALL the "praying in the dark" is/was/and continues to be the SELECTIVE elimination of the BEST HUMAN STOCK.

Propagandists were quick to jump on the "irony" of a psychiatrist going postal...eugenicists have yet to acknowledge the "irony" of a SECRET CABAL of "chosen ones" who do "the stalin" - KILL (whether with a bullet or made up "debt") off the ones who make it impossible for them to claim, in comparison, that they are the brightest bulb in the pack.

Their "acts", as you note, speak to their COMPETANCE...they CHOSE to create hell.

And we're back to the most fundamental divergence of "god"....will the real "god" emerge...?

"Free will" or "no choice"?

Operationally, secularly, we all have the right to survive.

Pay the people pulling out the quagga and the dead carp and those who would have "volunteered" to make enough vaccine (that "choice" not even offered, eh?) and stop calling that "pay" - "DEBT"!

People DO own the "fruits" of their labor (AND their "jobs") just like caesar owns his "gold" coins.

As for a "god", well, a "god" still "owns" the sunlight and look how smart and generous and friendly that "god" IS - it shines in just the right measure for there to be "life" on the planet.

:-)

There's a new "list" in town...and you're the one who is on that one - dueling "lists", you were "prepared" for this day to come, right?

Anna D.
We are all in "the valley of the shadow of darkness".
Instead of solving problems we are making them worse. Instead of marching towards peace and prosperity; we are marching toward war and poverty. Sunday, a Fort Hood Army chaplain asked mourners to pray for the accused Fort Hood shooter and called on them to focus less on why the tragedy happened and more on helping each other through "the valley of the shadow of darkness".
The 911 tragedy, The Afghanistan tragedy, the Iraq tragedy, the typhoon tragedy and now the fort Hood tragedy were all The results of unpreparedness and wrong response.
Prayer is a good thing but it is meaningless if we fail do what is necessary to avoid problems and fail to do what is necessary to fix the problem. Leaving everything up to God and sticking our head in the sand, calling victims heroes and white washing failures does nothing to solve problems and prevent reoccurrences.

DCEddy, "I could be wrong but I always thought that RED is usually the color of imminent danger."

Naw, it's pure "science" - no drama....red is a LOW FREQUENCY wave - even a bull can see it :-) Color blindness happens with the higher frequency waves - test for color blindness are blue and green...can you tell the difference. And blood turns "red" when it hits oxygen - look at your veins - is it red?

DCEddy, "Predicting disasters and getting people to respond are probably the biggest problems."

Disaster, bubbles, war - all are part of the game to vacumn up everything and everyone into the Supreme Being...so the "biggest problem" today is the sheer mass and volume of the growing clog (about 45 million) of enemployed "waste". Surely shipping the "waste" - 45 million - "soldiers" to the next "war" game is expensive, no? And will burn up a lot of oil...? So get them marching up and over the Arctic circle...away from D.C.?

Yup, no matter how you do the math, it doesn't work in favor of peace and prosperity, does it?

The "red button" at a power plant, for instance, it used to SHUT OFF destruction. That's the red button I was talking about - the one that shuts down the "process" gone awry...

Posted by: Anna D.

I could be wrong but I always thought that RED is usually the color of imminent danger. Red is also the color of blood. In both the case of a nuclear meltdown and the case of a nuclear attack there would be much death and destruction.
An economic meltdown could also be considered a red button event. We need a RED button to stop the corruption of our government and the destruction of our economy.
We also need a mental evaluation of any prospective President of the United States of America which is the most important job in the Union.
On the subject of "The car without Brakes"...
I think it would be possible to know how much hay it would take to stop a car at 35 miles per hour. The hay was against a brick wall of a building so you could start with one bail of hay and add bails of hay until the car did not hit the wall. There are also several more sophisticated ways of calculating the amount of hay needed to stop the vehicle by testing the hay to get the crush rate. Hollywood would probably be able to tell you exactly how much hay it would take to stop the car.
There is a possible metaphor involved...
Striking the wall would be the disaster and the prevention of the disaster woud be the bails of hay. Each bail of hay needed would be an action necessary to prevent the disaster.
Predicting disasters and getting people to respond are probably the biggest problems.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" would also apply. (:-)>

The "elite", Bush clan et al, have "cadillac" health care - but even all the king's horse and all the king's men could not put back together the organic brain damaged by YEARS of alcohol consumption, could they? Guess it wasn't politically correct to even admit that, huh? Especially when he had so many "bar buddies" across the USA who all thoought they were from the same "genius" pool....?

We survived having a skitzo-paranoid president for eight years with his finger on the red destruct button. We need to back away from extinction and get our priorities right.
Sorry about the facts of life but they have to be dealt with realistically.


Posted by: D.C.Eddy

I guess that once I called it the "red button", you equated it with "destruct".

The "red button" at a power plant, for instance, it used to SHUT OFF destruction. That's the red button I was talking about - the one that shuts down the "process" gone awry...

Back in "catholic" high school, a few classes each year were dedicated to "wealth management". In the existing paradigm back then, it took 5 generations of FAMILY coooperation - from first generation of immigrant as baseline - to achieve the kind of "wealth" that could be used to "influence" progress. And the kind of "jobs" that could build up to that "wealth" were what the education system was preparing us for - engineering, medicine, architecture, natural resource management, CIVIC contribution in a democracy, etc. - the whole "...ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country..." philosophy.

The "families", such as Bush et al, have been in USA a LONG time - long enough to produce many "rich man's idiot son/daughter".

As long as "he with the most toys wins" is the RULING philosophy, there should be no surprise that "pre-emptive war" is how THAT game gets played.

And we DON'T have a red button to shut off the destruction of that "process", do we?

How much hay stopped the car? :-) You're an engineer - use this as a "teaching" math moment.

And to end confusion, since we are all in such a "visual" information age, what color should the ANTI-destruct button be?

Any "experts" in the psychology of color reading along..?

Songweasel wrote, in part, "while they may not wield machetes, their ruthlessness is manifest often in utter disregard for the people who they are supposed to represent. evil, no. ambitious, yes."

I respectfully disagree. How can "ruthlessness" not be "evil"? If you want to squirm to rationalize the obvious, how about this psycho logic?

Ruthlessness is pre-meditated "evil". Which makes it iniquity. A greater "crime" if you still believe in seeking law and order.

Why seek law and order? Without it, the "fittest" that survive (ruthless blind ambition) are the worst potential of humanity taking over progress.

Progress no longer exists because ruthless blind ambition is INCOMPETANT. It consumes everything the "weak" produced - refinement, delicacy, beauty, justice. "Weak" in the world of the psychotic and narcissistic sociopath is targeted for consumption, ownership, and ridicule because they KNOW that they don't have those "weak" qualities in them.

I'd do a little more thinking about ruthless blind ambition before I'd come to the conclusion that it is NOT "evil".


Anna D.
There is no way to stop the development of technology; we have to have a system to regulate technology so that it is used for good not evil. Evil being what is going to get people killed, injured or a loss of their economic security.
The quality of people's lives needs to be the Prime Objective.
I was driving down the road and a connecting rod broke and severed my brake line. I was heading towards a dead end road and had to make a turn at an excessive speed. I moved to the far side of the road and made the turn on two wheels and had to let the car coast to a stop after some high speed up and down hills. It was like riding a rollercoaster. I came to the crest of a hill and at the bottom of the hill was a small town. Fortunatly, there was a bail of hay in the front of a building and I slammed int the bail of hay and was not injured.
I agree brakes are very important and so is the management of technology to keep it from destroying people's lives. That is why we need to bring our level of civilization up to our level of technology.
We survived having a skitzo-paranoid president for eight years with his finger on the red destruct button. We need to back away from extinction and get our priorities right.
Sorry about the facts of life but they have to be dealt with realistically.

oh my...hate to say it but that last description could apply to some of the candidates and office holders we have right here in the united states. while they may not wield machetes, their ruthlessness is manifest often in utter disregard for the people who they are supposed to represent. evil, no. ambitious, yes.

DCEddy, "However, it would be nice if you could be a little more focused. (:-)>"

I already told you, only 11% of the minds of this planet are capable of seeing the "big picture".

Your "focus" lacks insight into the "invisible" force that your "technology" leaped-frogged over in the first place and that's the tragic flaw in being a philosophical mechanist partially in charge of the new world order.

Which means YOU need to UN-focus on your ideas about how we DON'T blow ourselves up...did you forget to build the "red button" - the emergency shut off...?

Anna D.
Beam me up Scotty;; we are surounded by overwhelming alien forces...
I was a member of a Star Trek Club at the Boing Company. I was also a Engineering Planner for the Aerospace Division of the Boeing Company. I attended meetings of the Technocrats and received magazines from the Futurists. I used KATEA computer drafting systems for assembly illustrations.
I was required to maintain up to date training on all of the Advanced Engineering Technology.
My Reason to Exist is to try and bring our civilization up to the same level as our technology. If this does not happen, we will become extinct in a lot of horrifying ways.
I respect your exceptional intelligence. However, it would be nice if you could be a little more focused. (:-)>
I had thought we would probably go out with a Big Bang but it looks more like it will be with a whimper.
Our future depends NOT on better technology; it depends on being able to live together in peace and prosperity with human compassion as our Prime Objective. There I am in full agreement with you.

DCEddy wrote, in part, "Despite the Prime Directive it was obvious that the Star Trek series stories had some major affects on the alien cultures they contacted."

When did I say that the Prime Directive ignored the "affects" of "first contact"...?

The Prime Directive curtailed the amount of damage to the natural course of technological EVOLUTION in a less "evolved" culture...?

The space mission, itself, was adventure and exploration...

I'm guessing that you aren't a trekky and I catch the insistence on structuring any and all conversation back to your propaganda language...I've already caught the acrid smell whiff that today it is all "end times" all day long, so I'm not going to waste my time.

I made my point about "war". Literature in the 1990s had already moved WAY past the depravity of "end times"...I think insisting on amnesia of the FACT is iniquity.

China is recreating the hell on earth that was "industry" in USA in the 20th century. None of that "engineering" was ever "nurturing", was it?

People aren't going to be waiting for the psychotics and the sociopaths to have an moral epiphany and release the levers of civilization...

Anna D.
I agree that we need to let the many ethnic cultures seek their own path as long as they are not forcing other cultures out of existence.
Life would be boring if it were not for the variety of cultures and the variety of personalities.
Despite the Prime Directive it was obvious that the Star Trek series stories had some major affects on the alien cultures they contacted.
My concern is that we would be more of a threat to an alien world culture than a help. Our objectives are self- serving on earth and would be even more so in an alien world scenario if we had the upper hand.
I would think we would want to become civilized ourselves before we venture out into space.
Our technology far exceeds our civilized behavior as it is. It is just a matter of time until we self-destruct. Another four years of Republican rule and we would have been dealing with a third
world war.
We are already a threat to world stability with the introduction of a fraudulent preemptive war and a disastrous occupation.

"To be a catalyst is the ambition most appropriate for those who see the world as being in constant change, and who, without thinking that they can control it, wish to influence its direction."
Theodore Zeldikin

Posted by: D. C. Eddy

I'm much more of a trekky "Prime Directive" philosophist :-)

Could be the major difference between the female mind (think "Kate and Leopold" flick) and the male mind. Instead of "influence" which, operationally, is no different that "manipulation", "nurturing" is a completely different way to build "mechanisms".

I have no experiential evidence to the contrary of the FACT that cultures have UNIQUE contributions to make and should be given every opportunity to solve life maintenance problems in their own way.

Watching a documentary, I could not help but notice the sullen expressions on the faces of the women in a remote Chilean village who were "taught" to ride the bicycle for hours in order to generate the battery to light the village at night.

I don't like to see so many unhappy female faces, again.

I started to wonder what they would have preferred to "buy", or even better, if taught the "physics" that the whole planet operates under, what "mechanism" could that village have, eventually, evolved for itself - IF it wanted electricity at night.

See the difference?

I still think we need a global world's fair kind of event and let each culture make its own decisions about what it wants to do with regards to uplifting their standard of living. It seems like we are at a time and place where there are so many choices, we just need to put them all out there in the marketplace.

Let cultures evolve UNIQUELY and organically.

Anything else is "evil", no?

Jumping Jelly Beans,
While I never quit thought of my Philosopy as mechanical; It is probably about as close as I could call it.
My parents were Salvationists. The Salvation Army is a church group that is concerned with the idea "take the slums out of the people and then take the people out of the slums". Because of this fact; I have a deep concern for people's welfare which is consisent with your concern, "I prefer to focus on "iniquity" - which is the treatment of human beings as "what" instead of "who"."
My theory is that we need a society that is capable of a just and equitable society. My employment has been in Engineering Design and Manufacturing Planning. My education has been in Engineering Design and Technology as well as the Humanities.
I have been a member of the American Philosophy Association for many years. I went to China with a group of philosophers from the APA on a special request by the president of the APA at the time. I presented my book and my theories at ten universities in China. It is a strange coincidence that since then the Chinese economy has out done the US economy.
My economic theory is a multiplier economy that uses resources efficiently through a system of seeding funds as necessary. It is also based on promoting investments in quality human lifestyles.
While my Theories are God inspired; My ideas are based on secular concepts.

We are all voyagers on the good ship Earthland.

"To be a catalyst is the ambition most appropriate for those who see the world as being in constant change, and who, without thinking that they can control it, wish to influence its direction."
Theodore Zeldikin



These concepts would help us understand how good and evil are generated.


Posted by: D. C. Eddy

You are a philosophical mechanist, DCEddy.

Free will is what generates "good" and "evil".

I prefer to focus on "iniquity" - which is the treatment of human beings as "what" instead of "who".

The kind of censorship being practiced in the USA is INIQUITY.

Factals are not something new under the sun...
There are fractals and iteration and reiteration that proceed factals.
How about considering the validity of a new word "interfactal"?
The definition of "interfactal" would be the patterns of human interactions that form the network of human affect on reality. An example would be the daily cause and effect of our influence on reality as we make choices and take actions which cause waves of change in the annals of reality.
An example of an "interfactal" pattern would be all of the things that would transpire if an object is purchased causing a series of activities related to that purchase.
To relate this word
"interfactal" to this
thread; it would be the good or evil that is caused by human affect on reality. It would make it possible to understand the biorythems of life. These concepts would help us understand how good and evil are generated.

Anna D.
I wish you would read my posts more accurately.
Factals have nothing to do with goats or mind melt down.
factals has to do with the creation of repetative forms that can be examined for geographic dimensioning. It is also about measuring irregular forms by breaking their contour into smaller units that can be measured and then added up to find the total distance around an irregular shape. This same method is used to determine the contour of a road.
The concept of factals can be applied to any number of applications including repetative human interactions.
While in deed I do operate out of my own personal universe just as you operate out of your personal universe our interaction is based on factals.
May the force of factals be with you Anna.

The following is a mathematical axiom:
Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.

Just because a D-cell makes your flashlight come alive does not mean God makes batteries. The point of living is not to make a goat fall over with your hypnotic gaze, but to sit up all night feeding a lost lamb until you fall over. (As I held the lamb my flashlight died, but the Sun came up in the morning, and one confused ewe realized from smelling that she'd actually had twins. I named that lamb Elian (after our Cuban visitor) and he is still fathering offspring at age 9. You can value life without knowing its origin. Not admitting this causes ethical confusion. Although I am now a "Frankenstein" I continue loving life.

DCEddy wrote, in part, "Many repetitive waves of activites occur as I go through the day interacting with other people."

Ah, here's the point of confusion.

The laws of physics discerned through Mandlebrot's fractal are NOT, I repeat, are NOT in operation in people relationships.

So you are discussing Planet Eddy "reality" from a fundamental philosophical confusion - you ARE staring at goats.

As a possessor of, supposedly, a higher computing system (organic brain), the TRUTH why a goat falls over after you stare at it should be easy to discern if it wasn't for the fact that the "experiement" was merely set up to "prove" a pre-fabbed conclusion.

Pulling quagga out of water pipes is NOT being funded - not sure whether doing such "charity" work as cleaning up the biological mess from global shipping qualifies as "heroic" or not...? I'll leave that judgement up to Jack Martin.

All the ancient carp in th eriver died off this past spring - that was fun. Dead fish lying along hundreds of miles of river shoreline in 100+ dry heat and blazing sun - even cayotes stayed clear of the mess after a while...

You never built a civilization from the ground up (agriculture), either, have you?

PBS has a TV episode that is clever look at plants - did you see it?

Not everything can be "traded".

And all the billions of $$$ flowing to algae as fuel research is sick - Obambi needs to read Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" before he thinks his poker player buddy in lalaland is a genius...while everyone is worried about "warming" up, no one wants to consider all the "liquid" pollution - last thing we need is a new "liquid" fuel - scheesh...especially an algae derived one...

What WERE 2-3 generations of kids being TAUGHT in schools - how to stare at goats?

If you have FACTS that prove that fractal physics is ALTERED by YOUR thoughts, then the burden is on YOU to share that information not on me to disprove what has not been proven.
Anna D.

HMMMM...
It seems to me that when ever we interact with reality there is a wave effect like when you drop a rock in a lake.
If I buy an African wood carving at the local Pier One outlet there is a series of effects that transpire from the time I buy the carving until the carver in Africa replaces that carving with another carving to sell. This also includes the transaction of funds, shipping and packing and many other activities.
Many repetitive waves of activites occur as I go through the day interacting with other people. I do not have to stare at a goat to get any of these factals to transpire.
Any thoughts?
Is this fact of reality I suggest a proof?
Does it change the geometry of reality?

You might want to stick to facts about factals.


Posted by: D. C. Eddy

There's a movie coming out called "The Men Who Stare at Goats" - which from the ads appears to be about the whole cult that BELIEVES that thoughts alter the laws of physics.

So I am NOT deviating from the facts when I state that a human's thoughts do NOT alter the laws of physcis by which the fractal operates. The amount of time and space that any human has to alter "reality" is limited to the time and space in which they interact with the material world. But when the fractal repeats, it excludes YOU and Me and everyone else....seems perfectly lucid to me.

If you have FACTS that prove that fractal physics is ALTERED by YOUR thoughts, then the burden is on YOU to share that information not on me to disprove what has not been proven.

Anna D.
You seem to have selective perceptual seeing. I also posted,"I do appreciate your amazing intellect. (:->)"
What is with the strange hallucination about goats. That I recollect, I said nothing about goats. It was you who posted about goats. Are you trying to tell me I "get your goat"?
Personally I appreciate smart and self-confident women. I make no Claims to being savant. However I have spent many years of study and research and like you think in different terms than other people making it very difficult to communicate. I spend a lot of time editing everything I write.
I wish you the best and look forward to more of your posts. You might want to stick to facts about factals.

DCEddy wrote, in part, "When all is said and done; factals are a fact of life that cannot be dismissed as non-design....and "While I have a problem with your disjointed assumptions""

Look, kiddo, first off I have studied to death by psycho babblists mostly for nefarious reasons...but back in the rip-roaring 1970s, I did not attend many of my classes at the inner city U because I had my pocketbook ripped off my shoulder my first day on campus but I got a 3.6 cum anyway...that triggered a test and I have the kind of "thinking" that only 11% of people have - so YOU are the one who feels that your kind of thinking is superior to mine - trust me, its not. Anyone who ends up "staring at goats" as a reality check obviously did a logical two-step providing false data for a pre-fabbed conclusion.

YOU are the one who doesn't get what I said, the hyper-intellectual, mental masturbation slop you throw on TODAY's accessing of reality does NOT come anywhere near altering the LAWS in operation behind the fractal pattern.

How that heck did what I wrote get translated in your brain to ME "dismissing" fractals is, obviously, a problem with YOUR reading comprehension.

You have been jerking around with your fellow neocons in virtual reality for far too long...unless you can tone down the noise in the rut you've created in your brain from the conceit you have that you are beyond learning anything new - you could be a candidate for ORGANIC dementia...

There are PLENTY of women you can parade around as logical evidence of the inherent stupididty of women but crapping all over the 11% (or less) of women who happen to be at least as smart ina completely different way than the "genius" men is only a sign that your immediated ancestors must have been some undomesticated animal like a havelina pig :-))

The LAWS of physics of the fractal repeat and YOUR temporary impact on REALITY is not part of the pattern.

You are not even smart enough to realize that the "culture" that does NOT smack around the "smart" women will have ALL other "cultures" beat - especially in the long run...even the "romans" are starting to "get it"...

Just the facts, Ma'am

Anna D.
The fact of the factals is a design factor in the manufacture of practical repetitive refraction of replications.
It is a design tool that can determine dimensions of abstact proportions.
When all is said and done; factals are a fact of life that cannot be dismissed as non-design. Nature is awash with factals. Therefore, nature is a designed system. Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other. If there are factals in the design works of human beings and there are also factals in the design in nature then both man made objects and nature made objects are designed.
That is the factals of life. (:-)>
Have fun with that one Anna.
While I have a problem with your disjointed assumptions; I do appreciate your amazing intellect. (:->)

DCEddy keeps preaching that, "Our decisions that change reality can be based on rational or emotional considerations."

All we do is ACCESS the material world.

Look at it in this way, the LAWS of physics, the material world, is very much a mathematical fractal - Mandlebrot's fractal of primary pattern.

Yes, through FREE WILL steeped in the error of selfishness, you can slop black paint on a white background, but the next time the fractal repeats, your black spot isn't there because you did NOT change the laws of physics. You don't have that "power" to create laws. You only have the power to throw a wrench into the spokes so that you can, personally, learn something from that exercise of destruction.

However, I agree with you that FORCING people to repeat that mistake is socially unacceptable, has been for millenia, btw. We have enough history behind us to discern that sometimes thousands of years go by and everyone is retarded into recreating the wheel. What "spiritual force" is retarding people is perhaps the question on deck...

That's the way it is with the material world. The damage that any one life form can do to it is contained to a single time frame.

Is there "something" that created the material world?

If you imagine that there is a "reality" that is outside of time and space, then you'll say "yes". Your "thoughts" may be in harmony with that "reality" but all you would see if they were in harmony in "time" would still just be the repeating pattern of reality and not the WHY of reality.

Now go stare at some goats :-)) Animal abuse, if you think about it, though....

The goat is unable to walk away back to the herd and say, "...that human has a personality disorder...".

:-))

Nathan Prophet,
Most myths are based on some real happening. The
"Human Predicament" Is just as real as is rock formations. they are both the product of physical conditions.
When it comes to people, much of our life is based on situation as well as physical conditions. Our decisions that change reality can be based on rational or emotional considerations. Jumping off a cliff because we have been jilted has just as much a physical affect when we hit the ground as the emotional affect of being jilted.
Despite the disparities in Religion; it still has made it possible for people to work together for common cause. we would have been extinct a long time ago if it were not for moral values and human compassin. The Star Trek story Borg are a prime example of what humanoids with only perfuntory function would be like.
As far as miracles are concerned. I have witnessed several and have no problem with the fact that there is more to reality than normal cause and effect. Our present sociopathic entertainment has a direct cause and effect when it comes to our present disastrous situation.
Sorry but I do not agree with your rather unrealistic assumption that earth has no rational design when all of reality is designed to be functional and comprehendible. This earth has been designed particularly so that it is capable of supporting life and that abundant. Not all information in text books is consistent with reality. Why deceive people when people's accurate concept of reality is critical to their survival?

The least original "opinions" being written on this blog has to be the "religious" stuff in regards to "evil"...

In its "feeling", it reminds me of that sarcastic and angry quip that indicates a mind still in control - "...I'd like to dig 'em up to kill 'em again...."

When did sticking Jesus up on a stick once a year become not often enough?

This is "evil" in my book - heck, I'll even call it INIQUITY:

From The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion:

"MONOPOLY CAPITAL
7. Capital, if it is to co-operate untrammeled, must be free to establish a monopoly of industry and trade: this is already being put in execution by an unseen hand in all quarters of the world. This freedom will give political force to those engaged in industry, and that will help to oppress the people. Nowadays it is more important to disarm the peoples than to lead them into war: more important to use for our advantage the passions which have burst into flames than to quench their fire: more important to eradicate them. THE PRINCIPLE OBJECT OF OUR DIRECTORATE CONSISTS IN THIS: TO DEBILITATE THE PUBLIC MIND BY CRITICISM; TO LEAD IT AWAY FROM SERIOUS REFLECTIONS CALCULATED TO AROUSE RESISTANCE; TO DISTRACT THE FORCES OF THE MIND TOWARDS A SHAM FIGHT OF EMPTY ELOQUENCE.

8. In all ages the people of the world, equally with individuals, have accepted words for deeds, for THEY ARE CONTENT WITH A SHOW and rarely pause to note, in the public arena, whether promises are followed by performance. Therefore we shall establish show institutions which will give eloquent proof of their benefit to progress.

9. We shall assume to ourselves the liberal physiognomy of all parties, of all directions, and we shall give that physiognomy a VOICE IN ORATORS WHO WILL SPEAK SO MUCH THAT THEY WILL EXHAUST THE PATIENCE OF THEIR HEARERS AND PRODUCE AN ABHORRENCE OF ORATORY.

10. IN ORDER TO PUT PUBLIC OPINION INTO OUR HANDS WE MUST BRING IT INTO A STATE OF BEWILDERMENT BY GIVING EXPRESSION FROM ALL SIDES TO SO MANY CONTRADICTORY OPINIONS AND FOR SUCH LENGTH OF TIME AS WILL SUFFICE TO MAKE THE "GOYIM" LOSE THEIR HEADS IN THE LABYRINTH AND COME TO SEE THAT THE BEST THING IS TO HAVE NO OPINION OF ANY KIND IN MATTERS POLITICAL, which it is not given to the public to understand, because they are understood only by him who guides the public. This is the first secret.

11. The second secret requisite for the success of our government is comprised in the following: To multiply to such an extent national failings, habits, passions, conditions of civil life, that it will be impossible for anyone to know where he is in the resulting chaos, so that the people in consequence will fail to understand one another. This measure will also serve us in another way, namely, to sow discord in all parties, to dislocate all collective forces which are still unwilling to submit to us, and to discourage any kind of personal initiative which might in any degree hinder our affair. THERE IS NOTHING MORE DANGEROUS THAN PERSONAL INITIATIVE: if it has genius behind it, such initiative can do more than can be done by millions of people among whom we have sown discord. We must so direct the education of the GOYIM communities that whenever they come upon a matter requiring initiative they may drop their hands in despairing impotence. The strain which results from freedom of actions saps the forces when it meets with the freedom of another. From this collision arise grave moral shocks, disenchantments, failures. BY ALL THESE MEANS WE SHALL SO WEAR DOWN THE "GOYIM" THAT THEY WILL BE COMPELLED TO OFFER US INTERNATIONAL POWER OF A NATURE THAT BY ITS POSITION WILL ENABLE US WITHOUT ANY VIOLENCE GRADUALLY TO ABSORB ALL THE STATE FORCES OF THE WORLD AND TO FORM A SUPER-GOVERNMENT. In place of the rulers of to-day we shall set up a bogey which will be called the Super-Government Administration. Its hands will reach out in all directions like nippers and its organization will be of such colossal dimensions that it cannot fail to subdue all the nations of the world."

Mark Danner is quite a snob isn't he. He referred to a group of people he disapproves of and doesn't understand as "mediocre" people. So, does that imply somehow that he is a "superior" person? Is someone with an intellectually complex reason for carrying out violence somehow not "mediocre"? This ingrained bigotry in Danner is a kind of evil.

Evil is simply the label we put on a collection of attitudes and acts carried out by some humans, and those acts have changed over the history of humankind.

We don't say that a male lion taking over a pride and then killing all the cubs evil; we call that animal instinct and necessary for the survival of the pride. So, can we say that "she is an evil person"? Or, "What he did was evil?" Is Mark Danner evil for thinking of others as mediocre?

Well, "D.C.", you make a little sense to me, but very little. First of all, "Adam and Eve" and the "Garden of Eden" never existed; they are religious-based myths used to illustrate the concept of creation, human nature and the current state of affairs humans found themselves in at the time of the conception of the myth. It was an attempt to explain the human predicament.

My claim is that it is evil for those in authority in all types of religions to preach about an "all loving God" who "knows the hairs on your head" who knew you before you were born, who has a plan for your life, who is all compassionate, who answers prayer, who wants everyone to be rich, who heals the sick and suffering; who performs miracles, and so on. This is just not so, unfortunately. Anyone who has taken the time to seek the truth through objective reasoning with a pure and open mind, by applying common sense and historical analysis to so-called "holy books" must conclude that these preposterous claims by religions are patently false. We are what we have discovered we are: descendants of the Great Ape; we are primates and evolution tells the story of all of life on this and possibly other planets. Yes, there may be some creator "God", but it most certainly is not the type of God put forth by world religions. God may have kick-started life and may have created the mechanism of evolution, but then went on "vacation" and let things go the way they have gone.
,br>Only when we see that it is up to humans to save our environment (this planet) will we have any hope to survive for much longer; maybe 100 years; perhaps a thousand. Unless we get away from the religious superstitions that say that everything happening on the planet is according to God's "plan" and God's "will", we will surely go extinct.

The overwhelming number of humans on the planet still need religion to have a meaningful life, so we have a ways to go before this trait evolves out via natural selection. Hopefully, that will come sooner rather than later or our species will join the ranks of the extinct life forms which constitute 99.5 percent of all flora and fauna species that have ever lived.

"D.C.", I can see how you may believe that our world is not a random occurrence-- it is indeed a complex and remarkable thing; however, there is no evidence of any kind of "intelligent design" or "designer" - there is only evidence of blind, random, amoral, pitiless chance that we are here and we are as we are. Our future is up to us, not up to Thor, or Zeus, or Vishnu, or Buddha, or the Jolly Green Giant. Let us acknowledge that truth, and build a sustainable world that will ensure the survival of our species and other species.

I don't thing journalists are the most qualified to answer questions about evil. I know Joseph Campbell is no longer with us but surely you can come up with someone better than those you've had when it comes to such questions. The concept of the archetypal shadow is a beginning in understanding of evil but it so often is the projection of that thing within all of us onto others that really answers so many of the questions surrounding evil as it flourishes in the USA. It's an easy call to blame the animal nature but Christ was much more concerned with sins of spirit than sins of the flesh. M. Scott Peck had some great things to say about it in PEOPLE OF THE LIE, but of course lying is so widespread that few wish to open that bag of worms. It was a lie Yahweh spoke when he told Adam that if he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge that he would surely die, it was the truth the serpent spoke when he said you will not die but become like gods, knowing the difference between good and evil. Why in the world would God not want humankind to know the difference between good and evil? It's scapegoating that causes so much evil and so many supposed Christians base their beliefs on this original lie and scapegoating of the woman and serpent. It's the whole patriarchal bias against the yin side of life that creates this imbalance that perpetuates so much evil. There's no reconciling the difference between "an eye for and eye" and "turn the other cheek," either. Let's face it, Yahweh was a schmuck and self admitted originator of much evil. Christ was a mystic of the highest order but too advanced for most to come close to understanding, especially the spirit of what he said.

I wrote this as a way to structure the REALITY of life maintenance as a human,

"When we look at other life forms who reproduce on the planet - mammals, animals, reptiles, fish, insects, bacteria, amoebas, plants -the lower the life form, the more likely the life form shoots out into the world "swimming" and with all the knowledge it needs to "survive"."

Human beings have the longest time of growth to "self-maintenance" of any "mammal" on this planet.

If you're going to try and explain "religion", you have to explain it in the context of the time it takes for a human to reach a mature status. And what is the LABOR required during that maturation time?

There is no doubt that progress is the "process" of life. It takes WISDOM to know what is worthy of "worship".

Wisdom is NOT held in trust for all of humanity by a Big Giant Head.

Wisdom is a distribution among humans - "...the sun shines equally on the saint and the sinner...."

What cracks me up about the worshippers of psycho logic is their - genetic? - inability to acknowledge what p-sses-off absolutely everyone, at one point or another, on the planet for thousands upon thousands of years - introducing yourself as a "chosen one" when even judging by the laws of the jungle, it's obvious you ain't.

Have we completely lost our common sense to see through this type of evil, or are we just too afraid to confront it?
Nathan Prophet

Pie in the sky Religion is to no avail other than to comfort the down trodden.
The fact of the matter is that life is not all fun and games.
It may have been a paradise in the beginning but that all ended with the fall of mankind with the help of womankind.
What is really ironic is that Adam and Eve had no concept of good and evil before their disobedience.
Unfortunately, we have to deal with the world such as it is. While most people make the most of life and appreciate it; There is plenty to complain about.
There is supposed to be a new world without all of the faults of this world but that is yet to be seen.
Common sense aludes most people, complicating life to say the least.
Hopefully, we will have more common sense in the new world.
Even God is convinced that the Jews are contrary and disobedient.
It is no small miracle that people are not already extinct.
A major lack of common sense is to think that this world is a random occurence. It is probably the most obviously created phenomena in the universe.
The creative force mostly called God that provided this unique planet is a free agent and we need to respect that fact.

A type of evil is religion knowingly deceiving its believers that an all loving, all beneficent, all powerful God created this world in which immense pain and suffering happen every day on a massive scale when this God does nothing about it; and that this same God required a human sacrifice in order to be appeased of some original sin that never happened, and that this God has a "chosen people" to which he gave an entire country, an act that caused the death and maiming and virtual imprisonment of an entire population, and this same God has a plan for each human life, even the profoundly deformed baby who is stillborn. And, this loving God set up this world such that billions of innocent people will burn in agony forever. Have we completely lost our common sense to see through this type of evil, or are we just too afraid to confront it?

Bonnie Calcagno has an interesting perspective, but in my opinion, it is much too complex and abstract, and misses the mark -- too Zen, too much Eckhart Tolle. Come down to earth; come out of your ego-trance. The world is not that complex on the human scale. To call "orginal sin" the result of evolution is stunningly superficial - there are many examples that completely nullify this claim. One example is giving up one's life for another person which happens quite often. The statements about quantum theory are too sophomoric to address. You also need to brush up on the real Mother Theresa. There aren't any "saints among us." Deliberate deception of the masses for self-interest and self-aggrandizement is evil indeed.

Bill, I have a different perspective of evil than taken by you or your guest:

What Is Evil?

You can’t be an organized gang stalking target without thinking about the question – What is evil? I remember when I interviewed a gang stalking target. One of his thoughts on being gang stalked was – could the world really be this way? My answer is yes. Religions have known this for ages. It was a “mob” that asked for the killing of Christ. In the religion I was raised in they call what is wrong with man – “original sin.” I have thought about that. It all started when man ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. I have thought about that, too. Eden to me is the state of present moment awareness. We can achieve it when we are fully present and in the moment. It’s then that we really see – a leaf, a tree. It’s for that moment without memory of the past or anxiety about the future – when we are fully in the moment – in “I-Thou” relationship as the philosopher Martin Buber with another person, with nature etc. – that we are one with nature and we achieve bliss or as close as we can ever come to it. That I think is what the physicist (all these perspectives are talked about in my book, The Search for Being) David Bohm, I think, called wholeness.
The original sin is the result of our evolution – hard-wired in as a result of evolution is our instinct for survival, our preoccupation with self-preservation, with Self. It’s why we all run around pursuing our own self-interest. And it is this illusion of Self, this narcissism, that is the cause of sin. Bohm and various religions call it “missing the mark,” whereas, relativity paints a picture of reality as a flux of events and processes, the world of illusion we build up in our mind, based on our language (instead of reality), gives us the notion of entities such as the Self. The sin of the sinner – who in the Garden of Eden eats of the tree of knowledge thus trying to be God – is living in this world of illusion where he/she thinks they “know,” when in truth what they think they know – that the Self exists that they can do things to promote its self-interests is illusion.
This is where the “sinner” misses the mark.
Quantum theory – based on science which is not about what we know but knowing – the constant forming of hypotheses – which in the end are always superseded by further knowing – as we always reach for truth – but never find it – never find knowledge of the Whole (God some like to call it) – quantum theory describes a world where there is non-continuity, non-causality, and non-locality. I discuss the perspective of the physicist, David Bohm, in my book, The Search for Being, but the bottom line here for us now is that the universe since quantum theory and relativity theory must be regarded “as an undivided and unbroken whole.” This is the real message of religion. Christ taught – love thy neighbor as thyself for the world is ONE. Man/Woman’s sin – the sin of the organized gang stalkers is not to know this. Whereas, the saints among us – the Mother Theresas not only know this: they live it everyday. When you think of any “meltdown” – our economic crisis – the moral crisis that is organized gang stalking – the people who engineer these crises do it based on notions of the Self, pursuing their own self-interests at the exclusion of the interests of others, operating under the illusion that “I” and the “Other” are separate. They, in the case of the organized gang stalkers, know what the “Other” should be and that if the other is not what they “Know” the other should be – then the other must be neutralized, nullified, destroyed as the COINTELPRO program (the embodiment of evil/narcissism) taught.
I have given thought to why law enforcement in what has been termed “mission creep” start out going after terrorists and inevitably end up going after members of animal rights groups, people who oppose wars etc. And I think Carl Jung as well as psychoanalysts could explain what they are doing. Carl Jung would say it is a shadow phenomena. Law enforcement goes after those who represent their shadow. Psychoanalyst explains it better. Intersubjectivists explain, what we allow to become conscious is the result of the intersubjective contexts we function in. When articulating an experience jeopardizes a vital tie we do not encode that experience in symbols. Hence what is unconscious in us is unsymbolized. We surrender to unconsciousness the parts of our experiential world that is too dangerous for us to articulate. This is the “nurture” in the nurture and nature (genetics) that determines our personalities. Thus our knowledge of self and others, our memories based on experiences, may be repressed or dissociated because they threaten ties with caretakers or cause us conflict or threaten us with fragmentation or self. The parts of our being we thus cannot express is called by the intersubjectivists our dynamic unconscious.
Now let’s go back to our organized gang stalker which I say is the result of a new COINTELPRO program. Let’s look at the law enforcement officier who thinks he is fighting the War on Terror, but because of “mission creep” is now targeting peace activists, animal rights people etc. Let’s say our law enforcement officer partially went into his profession because he has a low level of arousal and needs “excitement” to feel alive. Let’s say his personality type is extraverting sensing thinking perceiving. He’s well suited to his job. With his dominant extraverted sensing he/she is quick to recognize the realities of the moment. He is a resourceful, trouble-shoorter. She is good at her job because this type notices everything in the outer world with her focus on information coming in through the five senses. What this type often ignores is past traditions (our American values – privacy, due process, First Amendment rights etc. embodied in the Constitution, principles) and future possibilities (that by using COINTELPRO as a means they are creating the end – a totalitarian state – they are fighting against). Their opposite in personality would be the intutives who they see as living inside their heads. Now let’s bring on such an intuitive such as myself, an introverted intuitive feeling judging type . I would be the opposite type of the ENTP, law enforcement officer. What he had most developed in his personality – I would have undeveloped/unconscious in mine. What I have most developed in my personality – he would have undeveloped/unconscious in his. Since what was undeveloped in his personality was unconscious when he saw it in another person he might attribute to them, project on them, the attributes of his own undeveloped shadow. Our law enforcement officer would likely project his negative intuition by attributing meaning to an isolated minor occurrence. Hence an intercepted email might lead to an inference about some impending event. A letter written to the editor might be taken to mean the INFJ writing it was dangerous. With his inferior introverted intution ENTP’s erroneously read things into all kinds of actions by others. Extraverted sensors often experience great apprehension when forced to make decisions about distant possibilities (the threat of a terrorist attack) and the tendency when one is confronted by more anxiety than they can tolerate is to act (let’s collect data on everybody about everything, let’s surveill anybody who poses the remotest threat). Overwhelmed by their inferior function – introverted intuition – this type becomes overpowered with negative thoughts. They start to feel they have to get control of the situation. They feel internal confusion, inappropriately attribute meaning where there is none, “above all the repressed intutions begin to assert themselves in the form of projections” (read Naomi L. Quenk’s book – Beside Ourselves – which is about the eruption of our inferior function). My thesis is that law enforcement attacks peace activists, animal rights people because of projection. They are trying to destroy people who embody their shadow qualities, parts of themselves that have been disowned, that is unconscious. To keep those parts down they must destroy it in the outer world – which because of their inferior function they distort.
They do what they do because of the illusion of the Self. Their problem is narcissism. Extreme narcissism is how I would describe sin (missing the mark – confusing the part with the whole – appointing themselves God who separates light from darkness – labels themselves good, their shadow projected on the Other, evil). The solution to the evil law enforcement is doing as a result of the personality type of the people who go into this profession – is to embrace their opposite, to become more like their enemies, to develop aspects of their personalities that are undeveloped, unconscious, to become more whole, less narcissistic.
We can think about this in terms of the War on Terror. For it to end – the capitalistic, materialistic West would have to become more like their enemies. Their enemies die for principle (we in the West die for oil). We in the West need to rededicate ourselves to the principles our nation was founded upon as embodied in our Constitution (the antidote to the narcissistic lawlessness of law enforcement who is trashing the Rule of Law with its COINTELPRO programs). The East must develop its Shadow, its materialistic side to give its young people something to live for, so that their only hope isn’t to die and gain heaven in a Holy War against its Shadow, the West. In this way both sides will be more Whole.
Consciousness is key. That consciousness is embodied in the intuitive awareness of religions which teach us it’s when we lose Self (narcissism, preoccupation on self-interest) that we gain our Self (true self, participation in the WHOLE/GOD/ONENESS) that relativity theory and quantum mechanics as well as religion (God is immanent, we participate in God, we as individuals are not God) tell us reality is. In the part of my book on the perspective of the physicist David Bohm, his ideas about Wholeness are expounded upon. That consciousness of Wholeness is lived out when we embrace our enemies and try to develop in us the qualities they possess, the qualities that lie hidden in our own Shadow. This essay presents only the bare outlines of that process. To begin an exploration of the concept of the Shadow I recommend a series of tapes entitled “A New Model of Psychological Type” by the noted Jungian therapist, John Beebe.

"When we contemplate 'evil' as a concept I think we often make the mistake of separating ourselves from our animal past."
David Durham,

Civilization is only skin deep. Underneath that skin is the material world in which we must survive and thrive.
As a part of a complex material world; we have to construct our material life as well as our cerebral life. It is essential that we deal with reality realistically.
It is also necessary to transcend our natural nature to work together as a society for our own benefit and that of other human beings.
We are a product of our nature and nurture and must be constantly aware of the need for social skills as well as physical skills.
"So much depends on a red wheelbarrow Wet with rain" is an important concept that reminds us that there is a physical world to contend with as well as a practical and spiritual comprehension of existence.
What we do and say has a direct influence on the outcome of reality.

When we contemplate 'evil' as a concept I think we often make the mistake of separating ourselves from our animal past. Humans are animals, as much a part of the natural world as a bug or a whale. It is incorrect to codify any human behavior as 'unnatural'. To pollute is natural, animals foul their habitats quite often or destroy food sources they depend on. It is said that nature is cruel and so it is. Every weakness will be exploited and mercy is not part of the equation. That is the natural order of living things.
In the 60's and early 70's I remember a popular notion of the time was 'Only man murders.' or 'Only man kills for no reason.' and many felt animals had a nobility that we humans had somehow lost. But it is humans that came up with the concepts of mercy, of charity and compassion. These things are not really seen in the animal world. They seem almost 'unnatural'. Morality is a human conceit not mirrored anywhere in the natural world. Could it be that 'good' is a rising above our base instinct and that 'evil' is that part of us that lurks deep in our reptilian brain?

Evil people use "religion" to define "good deeds".
Anna D.

I think it is more like evil people claim that the evil they want done will have a future good result. The problem is that the good result never happens.
Evil people also frighten good people into doing evil which is the "Rove Effect".
Then there is the "Sheep to the Slaughter Effect" which is a byproduct of religious fatalism. The sheep follow evil people who make false promises.
The solution is good people that recognize evil for what it is and do what is right and good.

Posted by: george ricketts, in part, "We decide to "care" for someone or others based on how much empathy we can muster in each situation."

When we look at other life forms who reproduce on the planet - mammals, animals, reptiles, fish, insects, bacteria, amoebas, plants -the lower the life form, the more likely the life form shoots out into the world "swimming" and with all the knowledge it needs to "survive".

It sometimes appears that humanity leap-frogged over itself because it is so damn determined to BE something more than it is and only the material world can provide the "proof" that some are "chosen".

I am amazed that the perfect amount of sunlight reaches the earth to support all these life forms.

I am equally amazed when humanity leap frogs over the natural phenomena of lightening "science" right into "atomic" science.

Between over-crowding - and we ARE over-crowded as noted by the "math" formula: More misery for others = more money for me.

and having a bunch of technology being propped up through "worship" without the pay out of that technology being of benefit to MOST of the increased population,

we really DO need a time out AS A DEMOCRACY.

There is no way to educated a human being, anymore, that could give the being a NORMAL chance at biologic life form "survival".

Think about it, it's absolutely true....people snip back, "...what is normal...?" I snip back, "...we better HOPE there IS a "normal"..."

We leap-frogged over "love" and right into "kill".

Tim,

Go do your obscene mental masturbation on the neocon websites - or are there so many like you there that it's too sticky?

The discussions on "evil" seems too religious and black and white. We deal with "evil" every day in degrees. People ignore the person next to him or her who is suffering from poverty, pains, loneliness or aspects of suffering. We evaluate others in reference to our group or ourselves. We decide to "care" for someone or others based on how much empathy we can muster in each situation. Someone is given a "job" to perform as mundane as collecting garbage to running a nation. Choices are made in our material society to gain wealth or not to gain wealth. Capitalism rewards people who decide to gain wealth and those who gain much wealth are regarded more successful than others. Green is a human weakness and perhaps a "sin" again in religious context. It makes people make decisions that they would not normally make without the injection of amounts of money. The more the money, the more the chances of unwise decisions. People also live in their own realities with their own rules formed over time. Through rationalizations and generalizations someone can justify anything. They can brainwash themselves to accept an "evil" position and do evil acts. The first attempt at the act is the hardest but soon someone finds the acts easier. A conscience is learned although it is deep in the psyche of everyone. we are aware of right and wrong but can live with decisions what are different from the majority because we have convinced ourselves of their necessity or worth. Good thoughts, wide reading, spiritual involvemet and a balanced life helps to counter the lower desires of human emotion and confusion. Bankers need to volunteer time in the community and work with the poor, politicians need to take courses in anthropology and spiritual variety, criminals need to study and revitalize their egos and think of themselves as not "evil" etc. in order for the situations to change in life. Prevent people from acquiring weapons and getting too powerful or "evil" will continue unabetted.

Here's an old joke.

Q: Why has there never been a military coup in the United States?

A: There is no US embassy in Washington, DC.

After viewing this "web exclusive" of more discussion between two US white professional journalists sitting in the heart of a global empire as they try to locate "evil in the world" [their topic and words-- amazing], what strikes me most is the UTTER AHISTORICAL NATURE OF THEIR DISCUSSION!

I may have well been listening to two not-so-bright right-wing Christian evangelicals pondering the location of evil in the world. Really, gentlemen! George W. Bush could have fit in nicely as a third person at the table.

Mr. Danner and Mr. Moyers, maybe your quests to find some irreducible "devil figure" located in some foreign individual human being are "never ending" because the "devil" lies in the system that individuals must operate within-- say, globalize capitalism as enforced by either US neo-liberal or neo-conservative foreign policy (take your pick-- each faction seems to produce the same catastrophes in the end).

I am amazed and greatly disappointed at how provincial and timid (cowardly?) and self-satisfied both Danner and Moyers are in their discussion. Gentlemen, can the "devil" be located in Washington, D.C.? Is that possible?

Neither of you approach that question. Does that question hit too close to home?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing."
Leo Tolstoy.

Somedays as I read the scene from that Tower of Babel we call modern media(increasingly consolidated and coopted media Moyers rightfully beats the drum about) -- I feel like I am about to drown in the out of control 'evil' (threats to LIFE, well-being, balance, sanity) that is our modern world.

I think of scenes from the Film 'Children of Men' - and other flashing lights from artists and the 'canary' crowd.

Maybe it's the universe's mysterious and horrific way of trying to wake us up NOW, on THIS planet, in THIS (my - our) time? Well, that's a THOUGHT.

So one more poem, or part of one from David Whyte:

So when you finally step out of the boat
we find everything holds us
and everything confirms our courage.

And if you wanted to drown you could.
but you don't because finally after all this struggle
and all these years
you don't want to anymore.

You simply have had enough drowning,
and you want to live
and you want to love.

--- o ----

I now suppose it's going to take (millions of) acts of courage (minimally, think Gandhi) and awakening, personally and collectively, to lessen the sort of evil rampant and REAL in our world.

It's hard to (even)look and listen and ACT. But it seems - I/we need to, like the air we breath.

We could learn from history, but it seems we only repeat history, embellishing.

Will new neuroscience or a more 'compassionate witness' Buddhist or ? approach help, or a new appreciation of our limited fundamental assumptions of 'what a child is' or what is our place in Nature do it? Can and will we 'evolve' in time - and begin to change and heal the human species with it's hardwired (?) POTENTIAL for destruction, ignorance, 'evil' and confusion?

What about the great mistakes we make from the get-go, starting from where and what the 'ego' is, in this 'terrible beauty' plan of EVOLUTION. A professor I knew once called it 'the 'waste in nature'. Very expensive. Beyond our ultimately fragile (human) means.

What does THAT mean?

Can we just in time outpace the out-of-control advance of technology and population growth which will require new actions based on new kinds of awareness, like the planetary mythology that Joe Campbell pointed to in the end?

Is there to be global action from 'good people', Internet-linked and whatever all else, that could CHANGE our planetary direction (since evil/fear-based people use these same powerful tools now?)

How will we get back in our bodies and wake up our minds out of the 'adaptive unconsciousness' we swim in -- being 'the fish who doesn't know he's in water?'

How to start in that saner place or at least start with the consensus REALITY fact that we are all MORTAL, standing now in the RUBBLE of this planet/our time's countless old cosmologies, poisonous pedagogies, killing political and tribal groups revealing themselves everywhere. How to distinquish between necessary' and unnecessary suffering - and learn about those who are gifted at amplifying our killing potential and manipulating fear?

Evil.

You may be able to get my attention by pointing a gun at my head or killing my children or Mother and Father. Or telling me someone is out to get me (they indeed may be.) Now what?

Right now, I'm just TIRED OF, in one form of fear or another and from the overwhelm, the stench of ignorance.

And I just want to live, and I just want to love.

So I guess (damn it) that means keeping my sanity. It seems to take things like crying, laughing, doing some laundry, listening, speaking out and then organizing and taking ACTION. Maybe praying too.

Evil. I've had enough drowning....

And, thanks, Bill Moyers.

Bettina Z

Anna,
Your point being? Hopefully it is not that a drug cartel using religious texts and terms implies in any way that a particular religious group is on the same moral plane as the cartel. That is certainly a logical fallacy.

The newest and most vicious drug cartel calls themselves "La Familia" - a RELIGIOUS organization.

As a way not to start taking meth themselves, they endlessly read and quote from the bible for clues to the "end times". They really dig torture and slicing off heads. They want to establish their own "state".

Just thought I'd throw this "reality" into the conversation about "evil"...

Look folks, this is just asinine. By calling Bush a dictator you show you have absolutely no concept what went on in Stalinist Russia, Nazi Germany, or in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. It is the same mental stand that labels Obama a Communist. Talk about the right wing being mean and unreasonable, what about the left? Why no stories on the vitriol against Bush? This is just lunacy, people...

We got eight years of a deviant dictator who undermined our civil liberties and it looks like it will never end.


Posted by: D. C. Eddy

Yes, it "looks" like it will never end - is that the "hope"?

Star Trek Next Generation in 1991 aired an episode called "Drumline".

Picard wrapped up the episode noting, paraphrasing here, how doing "good deeds" is how "evil" people hide.

Evil people use "religion" to define "good deeds".

Personally, I am 100% convinced that the level of incompetance is so severe among the "elite" 1% (how is that % NOT tyranny?) that people would rather believe in there being a deliberate "conspiracy" with an ultimate goal in mind rather than believe that we've been so duped by stupidity.

There is a level of incompetance that makes it possible for so much error to be commited by the Big Giant Head, that "evil" - megalomaniacal egos - rise up as "leaders" by brutal force. That's in The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (a hoax) as a repeating "bubble" tactic.

Are we living by hoax "rules"?!

Do I have a MORAL OBLIGATION to believe that God really DID put GWB in the right place at the right time?

Or, as noted that we are ALL human, maybe GWB et al stepped on enough faces to get into position?

The 2000 election year Republican Platform, in retrospect, is stll very revealing in its own way.

Case in point, though, about incompetance from CNBC bobble heads - "....The 90% of the people who still have jobs can go out and spend...."

First off, it's 90% of the workforce is NOT "employed", more like 60%. And unlike the sociopathic world view of "reality" of business media "reporters", the employed are trying to take care of the unemployed.

Next genius "data reading"...?

How about this "interpretation"? The 99% with only 10% of the currency that is needed to be in circulation to remain a properly watered "civilization" should have detached ourselves from the 500 trillion paper "derivatives" DELUSION a LONG time ago...

After MILLIONS spent in lobbying "the government" to get rid of regulations, now that the regulations are gone, the "government" is being called "incompetant to enforce regulations".

Now why is this kind of "thinking" still working?

Well, if I was TRULY jesus-like, I'd be "dead"/raptured by now and not here to experience "boys will be boys"...

George C.
I am sorry but there is no excuse for torture or preemptive death and destruction based on lies and deception. All of that supposedly to eliminate one dictator who was holding together a fragil ethnically divided nation.
Worse yet; according to Greenspan; it was all about oil.
On the subject of torture; we were paying desperate people rewards for turning in suspected terrorists who more than likely were ethnic people they hated.
Killing innocent people as callateral damage or just because they might do something are uncivilized and immoral behavior. There are enough ways to die without killing each other and it is a waste of human resources.
It is prophetic that we became the victims of our own greed and inhumanity.
We got eight years of a deviant dictator who undermined our civil liberties and it looks like it will never end.

When "evil" threatens "good", there always seems to be a "fight fire with fire" response from the "good" side. I'll be the first to admit, that as a person who hopes they are basically good, I'd probably do the same if attacked. What I don't understand is the attempt to somehow categorize the evil used to fight evil as some sort of mystical version of good.
The truth is, we humans are far from perfect and far from willing to give those who attack us a free hand in their attacks. The torture used against those who attacked us was and is wrong. Now we, as a nation, have to face and deal with the fact that we are capable of doing what is done to us.

Dear Mr. Moyers,

I have always respected your thoughts on many different subjects but I have to part ways with you when you talk about evil. I am afraid that you are playing to the crowd that thinks there is some thing really controlling the actions of bad outcomes that happen.
It kind of gets them off the hook for what they do.
The devil made me do it.
Sorry there is only us humans here.

Personally, I think that some people get sadistic pleasure out of destroying other people's lives. They throw a monkey wrench in any system that is intended to help someone other than themselves.
When there is a group of children playing with building blocks; there is alway one of the children that gleefully knock down the other children's structures. When destructive children become adults; they do the same thing on a much larger scale using deceptive ploys. People like this are the Roves of the world.
In nature, there are the
composers and the decomposers of nature. They are built into the system. It is all part of the process of creating change. As intelligent beings we should be managing these processes to assure that change is in people's best interests. Otherwise, entropy sets in and the decomposers destroy all that is good and meaningful.
One of the decomposers favorite games is undermining the value of life and causing strife.
They also strive against religion and compassion and promote fear in order to make people volnerable.
Constant vigil is required to maintain and improve life's quality and society's stability.

First, I want to address these worries of gang-stalking and hi-tech surveillance. For every hi-tech intrusion there is a low-tech countermeasure. A tank can be made worthless with a can of spray paint. Lies foul databases. Is someone following you? Stop moving. Follow them as they pass by. Check out many differnt kinds of books, then leave them on tables in the library. The bus goes to the same places every day, but who knows where you will get off? A phone with a cord requires more effort to tap than a cordless one. Converse with the stalkers. Make them deal with you as a person. I do not fear RFID because I know how to defeat it. You must know technology in order to overcome it.

Now, to the bigger picture: In my experience, evil is the result of being 'caught up in time'. There is the past trauma the revisits us, there is the present danger to be overcome at any cost, and there is the spectre of a horrible future if we do not act. This drives desperate action. Desperate action causes pain and harms others as well as ourselves. I pity those who tortured in the name of national security. Not only are they changed by this, but they can not speak of it. To the tortured I offer my sincerest apologies.

I leave you with this: If a man thinks he slays another man, or that he is slain then he knows nothing, for the eternal does not slay and can not be slain.

Seems like there is a wide variety of views here- no moderator?

Keep up the good work Mr. Moyers. You are an asset.

Thank you.

I guess the 1% who owns 90% of everything in USA and the fruit of everyone's (past, present, and future) OLYMPIC LABOR are wondering why their psycho logical tactics produced unexpected blowback.

What percentage of USA population is willing and able to pull the same lawless crap that they pulled on "good" people to become the 1% elite?

At the heart of the matter seems to be the question that maybe "we" ARE evil, after all! That IDEA is the origin of all the other "fears".

Perhaps instead of focusing on "evil", why not hash out why everyone seems to BELIEVE that "good" has less sell "power"?

"Religion" and "philosophy" have gone off the deep end under the leadership of "minorities" with dark agendas, they are basically useless HUMAN tools in problem solving.

We could start with recognizing that if they were still useful (religion and philosophy), none of 20th century chaos would have happened.

So we need to examine whether any kind of realitic, evolutionary, and experiential culture is actually present among the "game" - which "gang" can rip off the biggest piece of the 10% carcass "left behind" for 99% of the game players with blind ambition.

Biggest damage done to "good" people was the "Left Behind" series. Reverse social engineering, no? Rabble-rousers making you question whether you are "jesus-like" enough in THEIR judgement. And the "sign" that you are - well, you'd be dead/raptured by now if you were.

I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn...

All this talk, by Mark Danner, with no public investigation of the attack on 9/11/01? Is it assumed that our government was telling us the truth. Lies are what we are all used to. And yet, it is just understood, that horrible attack, was done by Ben Laden? And what does the Taliban have to do with Ben Laden?
Just for the sake of argument, let’s say that our own government or military complex was responsible for demolishing the world trade center buildings. The question becomes: What have we done to protect ourselves, as citizens of the USA, to prevent a repeat of that operation?
See “Loose Change 2nd edition with extra footage”. Or is it politically incorrect?
Can you see me clearly? Where are the numbers in which safety can be found?
Tp

Dear Mr. Moyers,
The mainstream media is almost totally silent on the issue of civil liberties even though Senator Feingold held hearings on "Restoring the Rule of Law. " Below is the Home page of my web site. Would you do a show on the surveillance policy of the United States?

For more than three years I have been an organized gang stalking target. Imagine what it is like to be stalked by 10, 20, or 30 people a day, to have one of them there when you leave your house in the morning, there when you come home at night. That is what organized gang stalking targets go through. They are stalked at intersections, in parks, in stores, as they walk along streets, as they enter or exit buildings, everywhere they go. Now imagine that this organized gang stalking happens not for one day or for a week or for a month, but for years.
A target’s property might have trash thrown on it. There might be car alarms set off or beeping of horns if they try to take a walk. There might be honking or siren sounds if they try to sit in their yard or go to pick up their mail or take out the trash. There might be noise scheduled to disrupt their sleep. Neighbors might be enlisted to join in the harassment in attempting to socially isolate them. Dogs might be used to intimidate, running up to the target, or jumping out of car windows. There might be wrong numbers to the target’s phone, vehicles stopping and standing in front of the target’s home, neighbors' cars scheduled to exit or enter every time the target leaves his or her home. Everyday things might be repetitively used by the gang stalkers to create double-binds where if the target tries to talk about what is going on they sound crazy – the intent of the gang stalkers.

Who Is In Back Of Organized Gang Stalking?

The articles on my web site represent my search to find who is in back of organized gang stalking and how it works. Some of the things you will learn from reading the articles on my web site are:

1. What the FBI did in the past under its notorious COINTELPRO program.

2. That the Attorney General's Guidelines (under Bush) released on May 30, 2002 rescinded anti-COINTELPRO regulations which the Bill of Rights Defense Committee tells us, "Opens the door to COINTELPRO operations: government spying, disruption, and infiltration, which were used in the past to harass and intimidate people who exercised free speech and the right to assemble while protesting the Vietnam War and demanding civil rights."

The Bush administration granted the FBI "wide-ranging authority to investigate individuals or groups, regardless of whether they are suspected of criminal activity," Daphne Eviatar of the Washington Independent said in an article written April 21, 2009 entitled Bush-Era Rule Grants FBI Unprecendented Investigative Powers.

3. Just before leaving the White House, Attorney General Mukasey under Bush "instituted new guidelines that authorized the FBI to conduct 'assessments' of suspects without requiring any factual basis for suspicion," Daphne Eviatar also said in her article.

The Attorney General under Obama has not changed the above Attorney General Guidelines.

4. When the Mukasey guidelines were announced in August 2008, Senators Feingold, Durbin, Kennedy wrote a letter to Mukasey expressing their concern that these guidelines could lead to "long-term physical surveillance of an innocent American citizen."

5. You can read the leaflet I pass out about organized gang stalking under the section of my web site named "Organized Gang Stalking."

6. In response to two Freedom of Information Act lawsuits the FBI published on its website its Domestic Investigations and Operations Guidelines. It deleted almost the entire section on the "undisclosed participation" by the FBI or its informants in domestic groups.

7. The Bill of Rights Defense Committee said, under the Attorney General's TIPS program under Bush, a system of up to 2 million Americans was set up "to secretly provide information to the government about any persons whom they consider suspicious, and for the government to set up files on these persons." Such, the BORDC said, "may potentially damage someone's record due to innocent activities that are misunderstood or are invented or enhanced by the caller because of a personal vendetta. How the 'tips' would be used has been neither reported nor approved, nor have there been assurances that anyone who is reported as 'suspicious' will be confronted with the evidence against him/her and given an opportunity to correct it."

8. Over 1.1 million people have been put on government Watch Lists.

9. 71 Fusion Centers have been set up around the country, "with no overarching guidelines to restrict or direct them," the American Civil Liberties Union said. Of them, former Congressman Bob Barr said, "Using the resources of federal and state law enforcement to encourage the citizenry to submit to the government information on the political, social and even religious views of other people, is in itself outrageous. For the government to then data-base that information, disseminate it widely, and clearly imply that views with which it may disagree provides an appropriate basis on which to surveil citizens and collect information on them, is beyond the pale. It is also a poor and inefficient use of police resources."

10. Fusion centers include firefighters. Fire chiefs have been given federal security clearances to integrate them into Homeland Security. They are being trained to watch for hostile or uncooperative individuals or those expressing discontent with government.

11. From the web site of Bob Barr: "law enforcement can use GPS devices to track you anytime, anywhere without bothering to secure a warrant showing a court that they have a legitimate reason to track your comings and goings."

12. The State Secrets Doctrine has been used by both the Bush and Obama Administrations to deny citizens the ability to challenge improper government policies or activities in the courts.

13. The Senior Counsel at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law School, Frederick A.O. Schwarz Jr., in testimony given to the Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Property Rights - on the topic of RESTORING THE RULE OF LAW - said the White House (under Bush) "had arrogated to itself unprecedented powers of coercion, detention, and surveillance." He said, "It is of the utmost importance to review our policies and practices, and to make changes where we find unseemly and illegal programs or inefficient and counterproductive policies." To do this he recommended a bipartisan independent investigatory Commission be established "to determine what has gone wrong (and right) with our policies and practices in confronting terrorists since September 11, 2001 and then to recommend lasting solutions to address past mistakes." He further recommended, "a series of specific reforms should be adopted aimed at reforming the executive branch and ensuring no repetition of recent abuses. Among the topics I touch on are the need for a clear rejection of the 'monarchial' presidency theory; improved oversight and accountability mechanisms; responses to the pathological secrecy that today characterizes executive branch operations; and coercive interrogations."

14. Obama said in speaking at the Joint Terrorism Task Force Headquarters on October 20, 2009 - "I'm going to be standing behind you each and every step of the way." I guess that means he won't be investigating the FBI for using COINTELPRO-like tactics today.

15. President Obama has yet to nominate a full complement of members to The Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board.


In a Nutshell What Is Going On

The crazies who designed the domestic surveillance policy are using people who actually bought red cars, red trucks, and who wear-carry red to gang stalk people (neutralize) on "lists". They use the GPS on the target's car to track them. Because of that, they can usually be found in front of the target. My guess is they alert these gang stalkers - who I am sure think of themselves as being very patriotic - that the target is in the area, maybe through text messaging. Then whoever is in the area goes where the target is. In this way at every intersection, in entering, exiting stores etc. there is always a gang stalker there. You would be shocked who beside "citizens" is doing the gang stalking (or maybe you wouldn't be). President Obama is continuing the surveillance policy started in the Bush Administration. Senator Russ Feingold is one of the few outstanding leaders we have in the area of civil liberties. But if he is to accomplish anything, he needs an informed public to support him. Click the links below to see his "report card" on Obama's civil liberties record and testimony from his hearings on restoring the rule of law in America.

www.feingold.senate.gov/ruleoflaw

www.feingold.senate.gov/ruleoflaw/hearing.html

Be sure to read the section of my web site on "Model Ordinances" or go to www.constitutioncampaign.org/ordinances to view the Model Legislation for Local Governments put forth by the Bill of Rights Defense Committee to solve the surveillance problem and many other problems caused by our federal government's assault on the Constitution as part of the War on Terror.

Jan, you wrote, in part, "Mob violence and hatred that is fanned by the elite can spring up and flourish anywhere, even here."

Everybody realizes this and from the many different angles that "refugees" and "survivors" bring to the conversation based on their personal experience.

MOST of the military, MOST of local city and state PEACE/law officers,

(but please note, NONE of the PAID mercenaries, er, "contractors"),

have publically declared that they will NOT follow any orders from the "executive" branch of government to round up USA citizens because of what they are "anti" or "pro" and herd them into "detainment camps".

I imagine maybe it's already been "suggested", "inferred" (or maybe a secret gesture like baseball players have?) to them and they are getting in front of an actual MEDIA MEGAPHONE "order" coming...?!

Everyone is AWARE that health insurance companies are going to be saved instead of LIVES and hands-on health care,

and everyone is AWARE that Skull and Bonesmen (figures it would be Kerry) are making deals with the heroin lords in Afghanistan, which means more "troops" for THAT gang war "victory" for S&B boyz...so their PLAN is on...and like I said before, MOST of us know who the mercenaries are in our 'hood.

The mercenaries ARE embedded among us AND conducting psycho logical anti-insurgency "tactics". We see that, also, Jan.

Spying on a hot chick via "unwarranted surveillance" is one thing, but throwing her into a concentration camp because she might be "anti" or "pro" some politically correct, psychobabble bs..?

Is that why we all should remember the "holocaust" - to recreate it with a new-age gang?

As we all are learning, scum bags at a bank just want her house, even if they have to throw her into a concentration camp to get it to pay off their "contractors" - one giant loop of blackmail.

I'm figuring out how many election cycles until everyone in D.C. is a "freshman" AND competant in something besides flapping the lips...

MORE proof about "stimulus"? Visit the ProPublica website and see how the money is NOT flowing to where it is suppposed to go - quite revealing...

Dear Bill,

The illusiveness of evil is as mysterious as the cosmic reality of the Infinity in which we live. Even so, evil is as recognizable as the stench of a decomposing body. And cupidity, or just plain old fashion greed, represents an important notch in the destruction of the community, a goal of the dark forces. And the “banksters” of Wall Street, riding high on this tsunami, are the present day mask of Darth Vader.

The Sages of Tibet, through the perennial philosophy, address cupidity and community in this clear fashion:

“Cupidity is coarse ignorance. Only true cooperation can save from such a malignant mange. A greedy man has a stamp on his face. He is not concerned with the heart; his cup is a bitter one. And for the greedy man the Subtle World {the spiritual realm} is only a source of torment.” New Era Community, 113.

“The cooperative is not a shop but a cultural institution. There may be also trade within it, but its basis must be one of enlightenment. Only along such lines is it possible to apply cooperation to the new life. Such unity is not easy; people have been accustomed to combining commerce with cupidity. Such an error is difficult to eradicate. But undeferrably, by way of school education, should the significance of healthy exchanges be brought out. Earning money is not greediness. To receive wages for work is not a crime. One can see that labor is the one just value. Thus, without agitations and confusion it is possible to expound everything under the banner of Enlightenment and Peace.” New Era Community, 271.

We can hold these men accountable for their evil deeds, for the destruction of the community, but we must remember that they come from our ranks. They are the product of an educational system which affirms a man’s dollar to be worth more than a man’s soul. Albert Einstein says, “This crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism. Our whole educational system suffers from this evil. An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worship acquisitive success as a preparation.” In other words, whoever ends up with the money is the winner. And nothing else matters. These, of course, are the principles of the mafia, of the cosa nostra. Capitalism, along with narrow nationalism and the military, are the crown jewels of our illusory reality, of our educational morass.

People like Mark Danner and yourself are the present day “Luke Skywalkers”. Expect no mercy from the Death Star: Mark’s close call in Haiti is indicative of the harshness of the battle: the battle of evolution, the battle against ignorance, against evil. You represent enlightment and peace. You are on a mission. And it is not easy. And you and Mark have all my support and love. You inspire me.

“It can be seen that the path of those who bear a mission is not a restful one. People think of a procession of some kind of magicians, almost as with the cap of invisibility.
“But the World Community is built with human hands and feet, and therein lies the beauty of the construction. Yet rarely in the cities does the messenger of the Community meet with a welcome. The very soul of the city growls at him. Indeed, the very existence of the Community is denied in the city. The very atmosphere does not permit the messenger to take any rest.
“Here he, the lonely one, crossed, swam, flew through the prescribed spaces, and he already communicates and transmits his message. Who has received him? First, distrust: does the Community exist? Second: can the Community be active and take part in distant matters? Third: is not the appearance of the messenger and the need for the indicated action simply a coincidence? I recall that one such messenger, indignant at the mediocrity of the last remark, replied:You who talk about coincidence, do not forget that you yourselves are a coincidence of particles of matter. But if your coincidence has been unsuccessful, the laws of matter provide a reason for it. However, when monetary matters are turned to, and those dealing with the transmission of objects, thoughts begin to coincide propitiously. Facts and warnings are listened to attentively. The city dweller is not averse to squeezing out a useful information, even though it be from the Community. Thus, outside of a few coworkers, the messenger encounters about him an abyss of greed. Give money, give advice for the morrow, do away with the enemy, then vanish quickly and do not disturb our digestion with thoughts about world fellowship.
“Indeed, realization of cooperation and community goes on, but the thinking of the average citizen is sunk in stagnation.
“We summon those co-workers who know the difficulties. We call to those who will not turn back. We summon those who know that joy is a special wisdom.” New Era Community, 156.

allenwrench wrote, in part, "It is a hard fact of life that the Survivor must be Selfish in order to SURVIVE."

This "philosophy" is just further proof that some people are about half a million years BEHIND in what is REAL.

The tribes that survived, over thousands of years, to spawn you LEARNED that cooperation raises the standadr of living for everyone - meaning it took the whole tribe contributing to the slaying of the predatory animals.

Your IDEALOGY is utterly bogus - to quote Greenspam, "I found a flaw"...

As for "Jesus" - I thought that the rabbis kept accurate records of birth and deaths - try looking up Joshua ben Joseph instead of "Jesus"...or were the pharisees ALWAYS producing redacted documents to cover their tracks...

Have a great winter!

In other words, when we look at people that commit murder and/or genocide we are looking for monsters in the hope of reassuring ourselves that the evil that lives in them is not in us or our neighbors and that we're safe from those who might commit such horrible acts. Of course that isn't true.

Mob violence and hatred that is fanned by the elite can spring up and flourish anywhere, even here. You learn that real quick when someone, very nice in person who you know and like at work, makes a comment to the effect that they hate liberals or when you see some dimwit go to an presidential rally carrying a gun and no one takes him or the gun away till Obama's gone. Then you know that what has happened in Haiti and elsewhere has the potential to come here too.

I watched a few minutes and turned it off. Too boring for me Moyers.

It is a hard fact of life that the Survivor must be Selfish in order to SURVIVE. We got plenty of woes here in the US of A and I don't have enough time or mental energy to worry about Haiti.

Seems to be many trends chipping away at our very survival before the SHTF comes knocking at our door Moyers. So even if none of our SHTF scenarios come to fruition - living life itself can be a quite a survival feat nowadays.

Every year about this time I pack up and head for some cavern diving at the springs in N. Florida. So this will be it for me for a while. But I wanted to leave you with this last tidbit before I go Moyers.

Many of you rant and rave about how the gov is screwing you. Well, as a token message to show your displeasure, may I suggest you boycott Xmas and don't support the spending season.

It is said that some businesses get 40% of their sales during this season. So without Xmas things would be a bust.

I guess this financial windfall from Xmas is one of the big reasons that the fantasy and lie that Jesus was born on Dec 25 never makes the headlines.

You religious devotees check it out for yourself before you get all huffy at me. Yes, Jesus was not born on Dec 25 and the facts show Jesus was never born at all. But don't worry so much about that fact - just concentrate on the Dec 25th fantasy for now.

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born-on-december-25-faq.htm

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

So, tell all the greedy bastards running our world you will not support their fantasy any longer. And even if you are the religious / delusional type. Send them a message that you are sick of the status quo.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/keepitlow456/victorygarden.jpg

BTW, if you grow your own food, recycle, reuse, repair and refuse to consume all that unneeded crap - you will collapse our economy and destroy our country...what a screwed up world we live in Moyers. But what a good way to send a message to the lying rhetoricians in DC.

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