POV

This is why I donate to the ACLU. One way to fight hate is to donate to the ACLU or PBS.

by OneActivist
June 30, 2009, 11:03 PM

Not surprised

I am not surprised that in this day in age. People should live in fear. After having a wonderful pride parade.I am sad for this mother and father that had to bury their son. What can those three monster share but a lunatic idea that it was their right to take someone life.

by Lucy
June 30, 2009, 11:42 PM

Beyond Hatred

It was an incredible story of love and generosity of the people who suffered such a terrible loss.

by mary reidy
June 30, 2009, 11:53 PM

Electronics Engineer whose job went overseas

From Marty's comment: "What is amazing is that folks like PBS and this filmmaker are brave to stand in the face of Evil and expose it for what it is.
Then they also have to ASK FOR DONATIONS TO SURVIVE.
Spending your money and time in the things you believe in is the only was to change a capital society."

I assume "was" in the last sentence is "way". It's insane that PBS has to ask for donations! It's the place where we get intelligent programming that tackles real issues, going way deeper than most newspapers & many regular political TV shows (though programs like MSNBC's "Countdown" are excellent). There is good information to be had on “Nat Geo” & History too, for example, but nobody brings consistently good programming like PBS!

OK, it’s that “capital society” that caught me! I think the recent Wall Street crisis; among other things (take healthcare) are examples. No, the free market will NOT take care of everything. We need a more social society, maybe there should be tax money used for PBS. Heck, there’s plenty for wars & finding ways to kill people!

PS: thanks to Wall Street & the "free market", many don't have any money to spare to change things! Greedy corporations leave the average Joe with less time to "donate" as well.

by Thrash
July 1, 2009, 12:39 AM

yes, but

Hi, and thanks for POV.

As a French person myself, i'll venture that many viewers may have missed the point that the defending attorney for the accused neo-nazi white supremacist youngsters is himself of north African descent (Either Morrocan, or Algerian, or Tunisian), with a muslim name. And apparently he tried his best to lighten the coming sentence on them.

I would've have liked to hear from some psychiatrists, in addition to the POV of the attorneys. All we got was a quotation from one such doctor, and even then, i don't recall for sure, but that person might have been talking about another previous similar case.

It seems to me that everyone in there didn't dig much into the social class clash which is certainly also at the basis of this catastrophe. Sure, the poor souls were not raised properly, they are "des cas sociaux" (meaning "social cases", as in the "social disease" bit in the lyrics to "Officer Krupke" in "West Side Story"), but no one showed any remorse/guilt for having ignored such compatriots for the longest time. Okay, so they do pay hefty taxes which provide social programs such as health care and other stuff for most everyone in France, but that's often where it stops: my accusation here is that little individual care on a personal level is sacrificed between those "different" families (not that the victim's family looks like anything close to aristocratic, or even high bougeoisie, but still, you could tell that we're dealing with two distinct spheres; actually one female lawyer said so at some point). Consequently, i think that the study of the matter is incomplete.

To continue on this aspect, the letter read by the victim's parents at the end is, of course, interesting, to put it mildly, as it is a rather good demonstration of the current French mentality (which i am proud of); however, its nagging and patronising tone has me think that those people are certain that their opponents in this affair are unable of a thought of their own, and therefore must be taught the right way (kindly so, i acknowledge, but); certainly those youngsters will now have time to reflect on the horror of their misdeed, without it being hammered into their heads: they too have some ability to reason. But i'm an idealist, and i'm not in their shoes, so i might have skipped this paragraph altogether, but perhaps it'll open a constructive debate somehow, where either someone else is able to articulate what i started, or i am proven dead wrong. Or a mixture of both.

Other than that, the content tended to be unstructured, typical of the French way, which is often interesting and entertaining, but in this case, i rather deplore it. So i grade it with a medium note, 3/5.

Thanks again, though.

This comment has been edited for content

by Jérôme Potts
July 1, 2009, 12:46 AM

Swift and Long-lasting Justice

Forgiveness begins only when those who have committed horrible acts pay for their crimes. In a case where someone is attacked with no provocation, nearly beaten to death, and then thrown into a river to drown, that would require (to my mind) an extremely long stay in prison. A life for a life, in this case, three lives. Forget "reform" and "rehabilitation": these things begin in the hearts of the offenders; they are not something that can be legislated or debated over cocktails and cigarettes with sleezy defense lawyers.
I pity that poor man's family, feeling the need to write letters to these punks who have victimized them(and their beloved son) in an attempt to reason with them, "to find closure." I hope for their sakes they find it.
And I hope that those three killers one day find it in themselves to realize that what they've done is wrong and that they deserve to be punished, that they need to be men--not vermin--and take their punishment, and perhaps they will never let it happen again. In fact, to take a public stand against what they have done would be the bravest, most honorable thing these cowards could ever imagine doing.
And that is where forgiveness could truly begin.

by William Martin
July 1, 2009, 3:37 AM

Remarkable family, thank you for your pride in your gay son, your courage to face his attackers, and the honesty and integrity of your grief. Sense cannot be made of your loss, but your struggle to come to terms with it in this film has caused me to reassess my too-quick notions of justice and reconciliation, and moved me immensely. Merci.

by sean
July 1, 2009, 8:23 AM

beyond hatred

extremely moving account. needs wider exposure.

by richard reitzes
July 1, 2009, 9:51 AM

Smoking

I was astonished by the almost constant smoking by many of the participants. I saw more dead people in the making than the victim. Also, I found the legal procedures most confusing and the film did little to make the process clear. I was never sure who was doing what.

by Roland Hartley
July 1, 2009, 1:26 PM

BEYOND HATRED

This is about disability access. My wife & I need closed captions - the font used was horrible. We could only read about 50% of the words.

by ronald schlosberg
July 2, 2009, 3:51 PM

prior homework

Hmm, i now notice it'd be a good idea to read the discussion guide (web link is on this page) prior to posting here.

by Jérôme Potts
July 2, 2009, 10:58 PM

Very moved, but

I was extremely moved by this film but am among those who found it hard to follow, especially the subtitles. It was slow moving and hard to follow in general, for me; I "knew" I had to stick with it though and am one who believes there is always always hope for change and rehabilation of anyone. Would love to have a copy of the parents' letter. Forgiveness and hope of family members of murder victims is the most awesome and touching thing for me; would that we could all...

by Maura
July 3, 2009, 10:08 AM

Forgiveness?

I was deeply moved by the Chenu family tragedy and their response. This was not a documentary I wanted to watch, but when my partner turned it on I found the film so compelling I could not look away. I was impressed by the quiet way in which the film-maker chose to tell the story and sincerely hope he was as unobtrusive to the family as the film appeared to be (in contrast to how appallingly insensitive were some of the documented questions from the press).

The film has a deeply reflective quality, one which does indeed make me think. I have not been a victim of violent crime, but as a gay man I have been on the receiving end of a variety of shades of intolerance: from drunken death-threats shouted in a parking lot, to denial of access to housing, to verbal harassment, to what I can only describe as spiritual abuse and abandonment.

My point is that hate lives in more locales than extreme violence. It exists day by day in little insults and negations of integrity. It wears the faces of our friends, families, acquaintances; at times it appears in my own mirror. The little slights, sure I can ignore them, laugh at them, get past them, even forgive them. Personally, I am deeply challenged to forgive the church that raised me, gave me my faith and identity, and taught me how to love – and then abandoned me when I came out. That taught my parents the only way to bring a homosexual son “back to Jesus” was to stop talking to him. That taught my friends that listening to my doubts was to encourage evil. As if ostracism was a tactic that could make me undo my personality in order to conform.

The Chenu trauma and grief is so much deeper than mine – yet unlike the Chenus I find that I do not want to forgive. I do not want to forget how I have been made to hurt. I do not want to release that church from the debt they owe me for the years of self-loathing I was made to endure while I believed in their teaching that I was an abomination… nor the congregations that have recently battled so hard to commit a sacrilege against the holiness of my family by making it illegal.

As horrific as it is, at least the three young men were honest about their hatred. The people who abandoned and mistreated me claimed their motivation was love for my eternal soul, all the while insisting on a change (sexual orientation) that is for me suicidally impossible. Insisting that I was possessed by the devil. Insisting that the most loving thing they could do was to having nothing to do with me. Insisting that because I began to see the world in a different way that I was no longer an acceptable part of the community. Refusing to allow me to see that as a gay man I could find love, work and family. Refusing to allow me to see that I could be happy, healthy and self-actualized as a gay man. Refusing to allow me ever to have a glimpse of the fact I could have both a love life and a loving life.

I know of the work of Mel White and Soulforce, their values are very much in line with those expressed by the Chenu family.

Still - I cannot forgive. Not yet.

Maybe not ever.

by Fiddler
July 5, 2009, 11:33 PM

Dear POV  

This evening I watched a documentary titled "Beyond Hatred" on out PBS Station here in Boston. To say that I was moved by this documentary would be an understatement.

Its taken me all of my adult life to appreciate the value of human life. I can honestly tell you, I do know that value. For I killed a man back in 1974 and it was my hatred of myself as well as for all of mankind.

I guess why I'm writing to you is to tell you that the documentary hit me right between the eyes. What affected me the most was the boy's parents at the end. When they read the letter they had written to their son's murderer. To be open enough to want to forgive the man who took their son's life so needlessly. That's a truly brave and unselfish thing to do. I never knew people could be so forgiving and to open the door for the young man to respond to them.

When the show finished I sat there and cried for a good half hour. I guess that for me it opened a door inside me. I guess I long for the chance to be forgiven by my victim's family.

I just wanted to let you know that the documentary touched someone and made its point felt and it also made me feel like a human being again. I sometimes forget that I'm human and not just some con[convict] number.

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for making it possible for "Beyond Hatred" to be shown.

by George Whitham
July 6, 2009, 4:25 PM

Beyond Hatred

I thought this story was a most poingnant reminder of how far we still have to go to reach tolerance and acceptance even in these modern times. It saddens me as a mother and grandmother to know this is the world i leave my children and grandchildren to. I cannot imagine the pain and heartbreak his parents have had to endure. Even though they have lost their son in the most hideous way they have the courage and faith to offer forgiveness to his murderers. I'm not sure i could ever go that far.

by Shelly Kraklow
July 7, 2009, 9:59 PM

Passing it on

I happened to be flipping through channels, and passed through my PBS station tonight. I was stopped by the rare sight (as others commented) of subtitles, and stopped to watch. In fact, I was about to turn it off, when the scene changed to mother and daughter in the cafe, and I knew I was about to witness something rare.

What a beautiful film - though frustrating at times, and not easy to watch - like much fine art. I will pass this on to many people I know. As folks have already stated - it's the Chenus' way of handling their grief, and moving through their lives that is inspiring. But so are the others profiled here - the attorney of North African ancestry who defended the murderers (and yes, Jerome, we understood), the Chenus' attorney, even the journalists - it was fascinating. I felt as though I'd spent time with people who mattered.

I do wish we'd learned more about Francois, though. He deserves to have the story of his life, not just his death, told. Still, I thank the filmmaker and POV and PBS for bringing this to us.

by Double P
July 23, 2009, 11:13 PM

The Year in Hate Number of Hate Groups Tops 900

A disturbing but important report on the rise in hate crimes by The Southern Poverty Law Center

splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1027

by Eliza
July 29, 2009, 12:12 PM

Thanks, George in Boston

...for your comment, where i learned (among other things) that you were able to see the program from where you are. I have had the extraordinary luck to see a huge amount of great documentaries on PBS, and i have often had a thought about you incarcerated people, wondering whether this type of TV programming is available to you, or whether only the obnoxious commercial junk is what you get. Of course your situation does not speak for all inmates everywhere, but that's a start for me (as you can see, i have neglected to go visit the facilities myself. Perhaps some day).

by Jerome Potts
August 20, 2009, 2:12 AM

Beyond Hatred

Thank you to the Chenus and the filmmaker for using pain and art to raise awareness, for showing a courageous path through horror.

by Eileen Charles Hyatt from Denver, CO
October 5, 2009, 1:01 AM