FRONTLINE/World

What was life like in the Khmer Rouge labor camps?

There was a lot of hunger, there was a lot of loneliness and confusion for me as a child. ... I remember just yearning to be with Mom, for the normalcy I used to know.

What did the Khmer Rouge tell you in the camp?

They orchestrated our lives. Basically, they just said, well, you go, you're supposed to go work and you go, and the (Khmer Rouge) informants would come and herd you like cattle. And we all went. Every morning at this camp, the informants would wake us up at our makeshift huts at 3 or 4 in the morning ... if we didn't go, they would punish us. And that could mean torture or execution. We did not know.

How did you get involved with the Khmer Adolescent Project?

In Portland, there was a high school teacher, Dan Dickason, who began to hear stories from his Cambodian students about what they did, what they had to eat when they were in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge time -- they began to generally share their suffering ... They talked about cannibalism and stuff, and he couldn't believe them. And then he started to observe more strange behaviors: One of the students went on a fieldtrip and she unearthed a piece of bone and she started screaming ... He talked to Dr. [David] Kinzie, from the Indochina Psychiatric Program, and so began these interviews [of Cambodian refugee students] with Dr. William H. Sack, Dr. Kinzie and Angel. And they found that half of us had some problems of depression, and we had PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. A number of years later they got a grant from the federal government to study war trauma on Cambodian adolescents. ... Dan Dickason said that I would be a good person to act as a liaison and also as an interpreter, so that's how I became involved ... .

I guess one of the factors that made me successful with recruiting the subjects was that I was honest and I was not worried about stigma ... . I told them, "You know, I'm also one of the subjects in the early group for this project and so I'm OK."

Were you suffering from PTSD at the time?

I probably have some symptoms of PTSD ... I remember I hated going to bed because I would have nightmares and I would hyperventilate, missing my parents ... . And it would be way exhausting at night, and then during the daytime I helped conduct psychiatric interviews. But a big part of me wanted to do it even if it was painful and taxing ... I told myself that I can go through this and that someday our studies will be helpful to Cambodians.

Did you see yourself in the stories you heard from subjects?

Yes. ... this one subject was very young, she was probably only 5 years old when the Khmer took over, and she was scared when I asked her if she could participate in our studies and said no ... . I said, "Look, you don't have to do it," but I told her an experience in college when I wrote in this composition about my experiences during the Khmer's time, and that once I went through it and read it and edited my writing I noticed that I cried less and less. I said, "In the long run, it's going to help you, but for now it's going to be painful. If you're interested, here is my phone number, call me." And you know, she called.

What are some of the concrete things you tell traumatized people to help them feel better?

First of all, if you have trouble with these feelings that have to do with this war trauma, just find someone who you trust and talk to them, let that person be an outlet for you ... . When you have nightmares talk to your friend or your teacher or whoever you trust. I could have done that but I wouldn't -- I felt I was an Amazon queen ... .

I just thought, "If I work hard and be strong, it will be OK." I didn't understand the psychological effect of that.

Here in America, how do you see the cultural gap between Cambodian-American youth and others?

When I first came to this country ... I was used to eating steamed rice and stir fries. And when I went to Cleveland High School, the smell was just so different and just so foreign to me. And I finally I decided to get something, it was a cheeseburger, and I didn't like the cheese and I just clawed it off the burger and then I began to drink milk and it was bland. I said, "How can Americans like bland milk?" Then a teacher explained to us diplomatically, "Well, that's what they're used to, you know. We like condensed, sweetened milk; Americans like this kind of milk." ...

There was also the etiquette in school, where I (had been) taught to sit straight up and stand up when our teacher came in and say hello. It's different in American culture. When I first came, I had that culture shock ... . But I think you can laugh about it, and be proud of the differences between us ... . To me, I'm American, Cambodian-American. I don't know what it means ... there was still Cambodian culture being thrust on me by my elders and aunts and uncles early on in college, and it was really stressful dealing with this living between two cultures.

Right now, the international climate is anxious and militaristic. People are vengeful. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I'm just so sad for the crisis in the Middle East and Afghanistan ... I was thinking about the suffering of the children. What if the United States did attack Iraq? I think about Iraqi people, the children, because I was one of those children, and I just thought. "How can he [Saddam Hussein] be so insensitive to the suffering of his own people?" ... You know, kids fight, kids pick on other kids, and my mom made clear to me that the whole world wants to fight, but I was not that kind of kid. During the Khmer's time I asked questions: When my mom taught me in this way, why do these people cause problems? Why do adults make Cambodia a nightmare for me, for my family, for everybody?

And I see it from a child's point of view: These leaders in Israel and Palestine, why can't they get along? ... The little girl in me says, "Grow up. Why don't you tell these leaders to grow up? Make some compromises ..."

You know, people don't understand war. I want to make them understand what could happen to their own kids ... so we would not be likely to go into war.

What do we gain by sharing our own stories? Why should we tell our stories to others?

We are not all that different. The bottom line is that we all want love ... sometimes people try to seek that love in a different way -- through domination, through oppression. I think by sharing our stories with others, we can try to help each other out and don't have to be so negative or so abusive ... .

When I learned that the Khmer Rouge leaders wanted to be infamous ... there's a great sense of anger in me. Not to get a gun and shoot them, or revenge, but to be something positive, be a positive force ... I understand their need to have power, their obsession, and I feel sad for them ... .

I learned to forgive the Khmer Rouge, and even learned to forgive the man who executed my dad. I learned about him last year ...

The two tough questions I asked myself last year as I was going through this forgiving process -- I jog every morning and I thought when I was jogging, "Will I forgive this man, the man who killed my father?" The answer was easy. I just said yes. But, I asked myself, if this man asked me to help him financially, will I help him? And I just broke down and cried, and the answer was yes. And I realized for the first time in my mind that I'm capable of forgiving because of my ability to understand that's how human nature is.

Did you ever feel moments when you were writing When Broken Glass Floats that you couldn't continue writing because it was too painful to relive some of those memories?

Many times, many times ... .

I continued because of that determination to overcome the evil forces, the destructive forces of the Khmer Rouge ...

It's this burning desire that defines me ... I just do it because here it is, I'm still suffering. And I see Cambodians still suffering, and they cannot confront it, and some of my own relatives can't confront it, and that makes me angry ... . I remember telling this friend, "You know, if the Khmer Rouge wanted to be infamous, wanted to go down in history for doing all these things to us, I'm going to be in history and expose the injustices that they did ... from the power of writing, from my voice ... ."

I pray a lot for strength and guidance from God or from my parents. I have a picture of my dad on the wall and sometimes when I am down, I just talk to him. I pray to his spirit and my own spirit to help me ... .

When I wrote the dedication, I just broke down. It was a long time in coming to finish it, and I couldn't write any more and I prayed for help. And there were invisible hands to comfort me, and I just finished it ...

If you believe in spirits, which I do, you know I wanted to write about my parents or my friends who died during the Khmer's time. I wouldn't be surprised if they were close to me when I was writing, that all together they speak in one voice. And I speak for them too.

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Photos courtesy of Chanrithy Him and W.W. Norton & Company