Ethics committee member DeSaulnier says Senate needs to see information from Gaetz probe

Amna Nawaz:

Well, as Claudia referenced, the Ethics Committee largely operates in secret. Democrats and Republicans are always equally represented on the panel with five apiece, regardless of which party's in power.

They conduct their work and investigations entirely behind closed doors without public notice and generally avoid sharing details outside of finalized published reports. But this investigation and its potential to upend the nomination of former Congressman Matt Gaetz is straining those norms.

House Speaker Mike Johnson has called for the report to be buried, while Senate Democrats are looking into whether or not they can subpoena it.

Representative Mark DeSaulnier of California was in the room today, one of the five Democratic members on the committee, and he joins us now.

Congressman, thanks for being with us. Welcome to the "News Hour."

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier (D-CA):

Thank you so much for inviting me.

Amna Nawaz:

Claudia just reported there your Democratic colleague on the committee Susan Wild came out and confirmed there was a vote, that committee members disagreed over whether to release the report.

We're reading between the lines here. Can you confirm that it was a deadlocked vote, that Republicans voted to not release and Democrats voted to release it?

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier:

Unfortunately, Amna, I cannot.

The rules of the House Ethics Committee is that I can't talk to you about anything that happened in the room and that that is deferred to the ranking member or the chair. I can talk to you generally about what I think is happening here, which we're trying to work through consensus, as we always do in the Ethics Committee, as you said, five to five.

But the Republicans being in the majority have the chairmanship. So we're trying to work through it. And I have faith and have before today and after today that we will ultimately get to a point of transparency, not as quickly as I would like and my colleagues would like. But I have faith that we're going to get to where we need to go.

The Senate in, an advise-and-consent role, needs to have all the information available to them before someone is nominated to attorney general.

Amna Nawaz:

Well, Congressman, Congresswoman Wild also said the committee is going to meet again in two weeks on December 5. So what happens then and what happens between now and then that you think could break the impasse?

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier:

Well, there's some question about — as was reported earlier, about whether the report is done or not.

There's a difference of opinion, as has been publicly expressed by the ranking member and the chair, of whether it's done or not. I support releasing it. But if there's more work to be done and there's a disagreement about process, I'm OK with that. We take a little bit longer to get consensus as to what the next step will be.

And, in my view, that should be releasing the information.

Amna Nawaz:

So can I take that to mean that you believe the report is done? There's actually disagreement on the committee about whether or not the report is finished?

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier:

I believed it was done. We have — Mr. Gaetz has been under investigation for some time by the Ethics Committee on a consensus basis about his role as a member of Congress.

The only thing that's different about this is everyone before who didn't have the report released to the public resigned and wasn't nominated and never went on to serve in public office again. What makes this different is, he has been nominated for attorney general of the United States.

Amna Nawaz:

What's at stake here, as you mentioned, is just this, that there's an incoming president's nomination for the next attorney general. It's an incredibly consequential and powerful post.

Just a couple of hours ago, you were asked about this and you said: "The scope and the scale and the danger to this is higher than anything I have ever lived through."

What did you mean by that?

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier:

What I meant by that is, this is attorney general of the United States in a time in our country's history where there's very little trust in the Congress.

I feel very strongly that our ultimate message or job here in the Ethics Committee is to keep an eye on the public's trust in the institution and specifically in this instance on the 10 members on the Committee on Ethics.

Amna Nawaz:

Your committee has been looking into this since May of 2023. I guess the question is, at this point, if you're at a deadlock and it doesn't seem like there will be a break in that impasse, to have worked on this for 18 months and not have a report to show for it, does that cause a lot of people to question both the relevancy, but also the potency of this committee itself?

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier:

You know, I liken the Ethics Committee in many ways to a grand jury.

We're not meeting in secret.We're meeting in secret in the context of those are the rules and there's good reasons for those rules. But the process is different because our times are different. The process was different because of the outcome of the election, to be honest, and the winner of that election, Mr. Trump, to pick this person, who happened to be under investigation as a House member.

So, to me, that's the issue. And, ultimately, the issue, as I said, again, is the trust by Republican and Democrats in the institution. I'm talking about average voters. They don't trust us now. And it's really important for us on the Ethics Committee, I think, to rise to the occasion and make sure we're honest and open with the American public, accepting the fact that we have a different perspective.

Amna Nawaz:

That is Congressman Mark DeSaulnier of California, a member of the House Ethics Committee, joining us tonight.

Congressman, thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier:

My pleasure. Thank you.