Exploring ways to build faith and security in U.S. elections

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• Lisa Desjardins:

  As House Republicans have grappled with their own divisions this week, it reflects a larger sharpening partisan chasm in America. The split is far more than rhetorical with renewed and rising threats of violence amid the House speaker's race and as the 2024 election ramps up.

  Last month, a group of election experts warned that American democracy is under great stress, adding we can no longer take for granted that people will accept election results. Their report outlines 24 recommendations spanning law, media, politics and tech to protect American elections.

  Rick Hasen is the director of UCLA Law School's Safeguarding Democracy Project and convened a panel of experts that drafted that report. Rick, thank you for joining us.

  You know, 2020 was three years ago now. But clearly, there are still many Americans on in power, who deny or doubt 2020 results, including one who was nominee for Speaker of the House just this past week.

  Can you help us with where are we in terms of that questioning of basic election results and where are we headed if nothing changes?

• Rick Hasen, UCLA Law School:

  Yeah, well, you know, it's become a political talking point to not admit that Joe Biden legitimately won on the last election of United States, that's actually the optimistic story so I would hope that someone as intelligent as Jim Jordan would know that if you looked at the reliable evidence, the last election was fairly conducted.

  So it's a way of showing fidelity to Trump, it's a way of sticking it to the establishment and hoping that it's cheap talk, a little bit worried about 2024, because many of those people who stood up to Trump, who said the election was in stone, many of them are gone, they lost in primaries, they've retired, they've been forced out of office, if they're election officials, or they're just fed up.

  And so we're having this turnover. And hopefully, we'll be able to make it through another election cycle without it actually mattering. When people who are in power, are deciding that they want to overturn the election and not play by the rules that we set up.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Rick, your report is all about how to make it through that next election. You have a lot of recommendations in here. But several of them deal with speed, trying to, you know, build up confidence by posting election results more quickly, for example, but how could that happen? And make sure it's accuracy? Is it just a technological and resource issue?

• Rick Hasen:

  It's not just a technological and resource issue. So, as you know, we have a decentralized election system. So the rules are different county by county, not even state by state. And different jurisdictions do things differently.

  So just to take two examples. In some jurisdictions, you can't process those absentee ballots until Election Day or near Election Day. That takes a lot of time. That's why we saw such a delay in places like Pennsylvania, by election night, Trump was way ahead of the ballots that had been counted, because he was ahead among ballots that were cast in person.

  But over the days afterwards, it shifted and Biden ended up winning the state fairly comfortably. In some other states like California, there are many days after Election Day by which ballots can be returned. So it's not a question about processing the ballots. But the question about how long and just the volume in California, some of it is also how they deal with ballots that are problematic, maybe someone forgot to sign it, or there's some issue.

  So, we have a lot of technical recommendations for how we might speed up the process. Some of it can be done by law, some of it requires more resources. But the idea is in that period, between the time that the election is over, and the time that results are, at least unofficially finalized. That's a dangerous period that we've recognized. And if we could shorten that period, it would be better for everyone.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  I know you also focus on transparency, and also on protecting election workers. In fact, looking at your report, that's the third recommendation that you have in here is trying to buffer security and protections for some of those election officials. What needs to happen there that hasn't already happened. Are we way behind in that or no?

• Rick Hasen:

  Well, the biggest story about election officials, election workers now is attrition. We're losing tremendous brain power and experience because people are fed up. Election workers and election Officials are not paid all that well. It's a very high stress job. And then you add on top of a death threats and people harassing you, you know, why would you continue in this job?

  So first and foremost, I think we need to boost the pay of election officials and election workers, we need to have public officials from both sides of the aisle support them say they're doing good job. And we need to provide different kinds of security for them.

  For example, maybe their home addresses should not be easily available through voter registration databases or otherwise, just like we protect victims of domestic violence. We need to provide security at places where ballots are being tabulated. But we also — we can't keep the public completely out of that. Because if you close and lock all the doors, then people are wondering what's going on behind closed doors.

  So in some jurisdictions, you can watch a 24-hour feed, a very boring feed of here's the room where the ballots are being kept. And here's where they're being tabulated. And you know, so there are things that can be done. They're not really, you know, controversial things. They do require resources. But they're really necessary because those election workers are the frontline for our democracy.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  And just in the last seconds, we have left, perhaps a tough question. One of your recommendations is that those losing elections should accept the results, which seems simple. But it's a core problem here. How does that change?

• Rick Hasen:

  So, you know, Donald Trump has claimed that there has been fraud in every major election he's participated in even elections he's won. You're not going to convince a certain segment of the Republican Party, that elections are fairly conducted unless Trump wins.

  But providing evidence to people in the middle that elections are being unfairly conducted, which starts with conducting fair elections. Do that, be transparent. The idea is to convince most people that elections are being fairly conducted and to have channels of communication so that people who want to get more facts who are concerned about whether elections are being properly conducted, can have confidence that they actually have been and that the people are doing the right thing or behind the scenes, ensuring that our democracy continues to function.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Rick Hasen of UCLA. Thank you for joining us.

• Rick Hasen:

  Thank you.

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