Former Homeland Security chief Jeh Johnson issues urgent call to protect U.S. democracy

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• Amna Nawaz:

  American democracy is under threat — that was the starting point for a task force assembled by the American Bar Association two years ago and led by former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson and former federal Judge J. Michael Luttig.

  Their mission was to investigate the causes and potential solutions for this growing problem. Since their work began, the country has seen a turbulent election, the transfer of power, deepening political polarization, and an alarming rise in political violence, witnessed again this week with the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

  All of this highlights just how fragile the American political experiment truly is. That ABA task force has released its final report and recommendations.

  And Jeh Johnson joins me now.

  Secretary Johnson, welcome back to the "News Hour." Thanks for joining us.

  Jeh Johnson, Former U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security: Thanks, Amna. And thanks for your interest in the report.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So I need to ask you about the context in which this report is being released, this moment where we have just seen the assassination of a major political figure in Charlie Kirk, this time of rising political violence that we're in.

  How do we interrupt that trend?

• Jeh Johnson:

  That's a good question.

  Much of America is drowning in conspiracy theories, extremist views, and there are a number of elected officials, politicians, that pander to those views. So we wanted to issue a set of recommendations that would have long-lasting impact, that would be as relevant a year from now or even a decade from now as they are today, rather than try to respond to the crisis of the week.

  And so we have put forth a number of things, like recommending open nonpartisan primaries, citizen redistricting commissions, and a rededication to American civics education, on the belief that Americans tend to distrust things that they don't understand and trust more things that they are more familiar with.

• Amna Nawaz:

  I want to point out the task force was assembled, as I noted, by the American Bar Association. So we're talking about lawyers here, right? It was started under the Biden administration and you continued your work under Mr. Trump's.

  And you say in the report that lawyers have an essential role in upholding the rule of law. I have to point out there are lawyers involved in the efforts now to challenge democratic norms, lawyers around the president, lawyers in the Department of Justice, declining to prosecute his allies, going after his political adversaries, advising him not to adhere to court rulings.

  So how do you reconcile that in this moment?

• Jeh Johnson:

  Well, first of all, our report — the task force that authored our report were not just lawyers. We had historians, scholars, businessmen.

  And so we do say in the report that lawyers have been part of the problem and lawyers must be part of the solution. Lawyers are uniquely trained in the Constitution, in the law, in the rule of law, in how our democracy works.

  And so what we're recommending is that, at the state level, where professional responsibility is regulated and disciplined, there be an oath of admission that includes a dedication to the democracy, to rule of law, and the independence of our judiciary, respect for our judiciary.

  And we're recommending that state level bar associations, state supreme courts, regulators take a hard look at whether existing professional responsibility rules have any gaps in them that could be filled to more forcefully bolster our democracy and the rule of law.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You mentioned the redistricting piece of this, which has obviously been in the headlines. Your report recommends citizen commissions to lead that effort. We're speaking now as Texas Republicans work to redraw their maps to gain five seats, California Democrats now pushing forward a plan that would go around their commission, if voters agree to it, to add five seats for Democrats there.

  You have worked for Democratic presidents. Is this the right move for California Democrats right now?

• Jeh Johnson:

  What we have learned is that, when you put it to the citizens on ballot initiatives, do you want to have apolitical citizens drawing district lines, legislative district lines, versus the politicians, the answer is a resounding yes, so long as the political forces in a state don't beat the effort back.

  We have a system now — and we have to blame both parties for this. We have a system now where the politicians get to pick their voters, and the voters do not get to pick their elected representatives. And we believe that there is a large public support for changing that. And what underlies that is electing representatives who are more accountable to the political center.

  Right now, we have a system where most legislative districts in Congress are not swing seats. Only about 10 percent of them are swing districts, swing seats. So the elected representatives in Washington spend more time worried about a primary challenge from their extreme right or their extreme left, and compromise coming together becomes a dirty word.

  And one way to make elected representatives more accountable to the people that elected them is redistricting on apolitical lines, on an apolitical basis.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Your report talks about this context of deeper divisions, of political divisions that we're in right now. We are speaking on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, and you have said before it would take a crisis in America to bring us together, which we did see after 9/11.

  But, as you have also pointed out, we didn't see that after the crisis of the COVID pandemic. Our divisions got even deeper.

• Jeh Johnson:

  Yes.

• Amna Nawaz:

  If there was another similar attack, a 9/11-style attack today, what would happen?

• Jeh Johnson:

  I worry about the answer to that question. I worry that the American electorate, the American population, American citizenry has become so divided along partisan lines, extremist views, conspiracy theories, that if there were another 9/11-type attack, we would quickly drown into a heated debate about who did it, what was the cause, and how to respond, and our elected leaders would follow that lead.

  I used to say that it would take a crisis to bring us together. We had a crisis five years ago, COVID. And, as you saw and as we all know, there was a heated debate about whether or not a 35-cent mask should be required, the suspicion around vaccines. And, unfortunately, an unnecessary increased number of Americans died from COVID who probably didn't have to die.

• Amna Nawaz:

  That is the former Secretary of Homeland Security and the co-chair of the ABA Task Force for American Democracy Jeh Johnson joining us tonight.

  Secretary Johnson, great to speak with you. Thank you.

• Jeh Johnson:

  Thank you.

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