Retired Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski reflects on his long, illustrious career

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• Judy Woodruff:

  Finally tonight, one of college basketball's most successful coaches on his almost-50-year career.

  I sat down with recently retired coach Mike Krzyzewski, known to many fans as Coach K.

• Mike Krzyzewski, Former Duke University Men's Basketball Head Coach:

  Go right away!

• Judy Woodruff:

  A college basketball legend has hung up his whistle.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  After you scream, come right to the ball.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Duke men's coach Mike Krzyzewski retired this season as the winningest coach of all time after a 47-year career.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  When you're going, you take a quick look at him. And then, if you don't get it, get back up there.

• Judy Woodruff:

  He came from humble roots, raised in Chicago in a Polish-American Catholic family. His mother, Emily, encouraged him to attend West Point, where he was a standout basketball player under head coach Bobby Knight.

  He served in the Army, before coaching his alma mater. From there, Krzyzewski went to Duke, where, for 42 years, he was a force in the college game. Coach K won five national championships with the Blue Devils and set the NCAA record for all-time wins. He also led the U.S. National Basketball Team, winning three Olympic gold medals.

  And, at his side, his wife, Mickie, their three daughters and 10 grandchildren.

  I met Mike Krzyzewski in his office at Duke for an exclusive conversation about his life and legacy.

  Mike Krzyzewski, I try to be a fair reporter always, but I have to say being here at Duke, my alma mater, the chance to talk with you, it's a real treat. Thank you.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Thank you.

• Judy Woodruff:

  This is a big change for you…

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Right.

• Judy Woodruff:

  … coaching for, what, almost five decades.

  Has it sunk in yet?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  You know, it's seeping in, but in a good way.

  I have done what I wanted to do since I was 16. I wanted to be a coach. I have loved it. And in order to do something you love, sometimes, you have to do things you don't like to get it done. I think I would still like to coach, but I wasn't willing to put all the time and effort of all the recruiting. And the rapidity of it got too much.

  I mean, 47 years is pretty good.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Coach K's office is a museum of mementos, from the Army.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  I did serve. I was never in combat. And I was an artillery officer. That's a helmet. Could have used those for an away game.

  (LAUGHTER)

• Judy Woodruff:

  There are keepsakes from those five national championships and the U.S. National Team wins.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  People say, what's the greatest moment? It's that, because…

• Judy Woodruff:

  More than any Duke win?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Well, and that's not to minimize that.

• Judy Woodruff:

  I mean, not that — yes. Yes.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  But this is the world.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Photos from fans.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  I have three groups of nuns around the United States that I write to. And they pray for you. They say rosaries.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And family photos.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  My brother who passed was a captain in the Chicago Fire Department. And my mom probably had the most influence of anyone in my life.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And, of course, his wife, Mickie.

  Married 52 years. She's been in on all major decisions you have made in your life.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Right.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Explain how that works.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  A lot of people say it's the coach, but it's the family that makes the sacrifice.

  And she's really talented. I was blessed to have her and my three daughters. And I learned, sometimes the hard way, the wisdom of a woman. And the way that she looks at things and my daughters do, that's helped me immensely grow and change along the years.

• Judy Woodruff:

  I have heard it said that, among your many qualities, Mike Krzyzewski can be stubborn.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Yes, I'm stubborn, but I'm also very flexible when I hear a better solution. It doesn't have to be my idea.

  In fact, in the mid-'90s, I changed my leadership style a lot, because I had been kind of a micromanager. Maybe I was too stubborn then, up until the mid-'90s. But, after that, I had some health issues, physical and mental health issues in the mid-'90s. And I got through that, and it helped me immensely.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And you have been open about that.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Yes.

• Judy Woodruff:

  I mean, you have talked openly about that, because you think it helps others who may be going through similar challenges?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  It's human. I mean, so many people who have problems, physical and mental, in the old days, they would say, well, you're crazy.

  I'm not crazy. I'm crazy if I don't get help. And I had no feeling during that time. And maybe the greatest man I have ever known, who was a precedent here, helped me during that time, Keith Brodie, one of the top psychiatrists in the world. And he worked with me for three, four months.

  And thank goodness I was around good people again.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Krzyzewski spent more than four decades here at Cameron Indoor Stadium. The court is even named after him.

  We walked out on the floor he spent so much time on.

  What does this place mean to you.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Well, once we started going, every home game, when I walked out here, I knew our crowd would be ready. It was a rush.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Krzyzewski thinks the pressure got to his team in his last home game here, a loss to archrival North Carolina.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  This is the youngest team I have ever coached this year. They were terrific. They were one of my closest teams.

  I thought everything got really big for them. And Carolina's good.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Coach K is stepping off the court at a time of flux for college athletics.

  What do you think the state of college basketball is right now?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  It's in chaos, really.

  College sports, because of the NCAA not evolving and not adapting over the years, to where now it — the old way of doing it and being structured, it hasn't worked. It's a business. And things like the NIL have opened that up.

  And the NCAA is not equipped to handle. It's got to restructure and figure out how you put like people, like institutions in certain places to govern themselves and maybe come under one total umbrella concerning certain rules. It's got to be something like that.

• Judy Woodruff:

  NIL, names, images, likenesses.

  It has begun to change.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Judy, it is — the horses have — what, have they left the barn, or whatever those sayings are. It's a whole new world.

• Judy Woodruff:

  You have the argument, on the one hand, it's time for these players who are a big reason for their teams doing so well to reap some rewards from that.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Right.

• Judy Woodruff:

  But then you have the other argument that it's turning college athletics into a professional league.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Well, that's because it hasn't been something that's evolved.

  In the early 1990s, our guys, our players could go out in the summer and speak and make money at camps and whatever. Really, it was name, image and likeness. And the NCAA put the kibosh on that. That was it.

  Imagine if, in 1993, they did not do that, and the iterations that would have occurred in adapting, where we would be at today. You would learn how to control that and how to govern that. When it all hits you like a tsunami, it doesn't work. It's not going to work.

• Judy Woodruff:

  In addition to that, you have the whole Transfer Portal issue, the idea that now players can transfer to another school…

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Right.

• Judy Woodruff:

  … the way other students do…

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Without sitting out.

• Judy Woodruff:

  … and immediately play a sport.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Yes.

• Judy Woodruff:

  What does that mean for college basketball?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Well, it's chaotic.

  And they're — basically, we don't have any leadership right now. And we haven't had it for a long time. The lack of leadership and adapting over decades has caught up to us, knocked down the door and said, you know what, you all are really behind. It's time to build a new house.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Can you be part of figuring that out?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  I'm more than happy to talk to somebody about it, but that's not what I'm going to spend the rest of my life doing.

  It'd be like me beating my head against the wall here. I'd like to know who's leading before I do anything. It's been very frustrating for me and for a number of coaches over the years to give up so much time in ad hoc meetings and whatever to try — to try to influence change, because it went nowhere.

  And so I don't want to be involved anymore in anything where it's not going someplace. I want my bus to go someplace.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Players now, if they are stars, as freshmen can earn a lot of money. Are you comfortable with that?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  It's the way it is. It's not going to change. We have to make it — make that work well.

• Judy Woodruff:

  I'm asking partly because some people look at what's going on in college basketball, and is there just too much money?

  People looked at your salary. They learned last year you earned $12 million, year before this…

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  That's not right, though, because it compiles a couple of years.

  Do you realize how much we raise for the school, besides making money? In every capital campaign, when it's a $3 billion, $2 billion campaign, sports is a big part of the marketing structure to make that happen. So, yes, we make money, but we make money for everybody.

• Judy Woodruff:

  One other big area I want to raise is international sports.

  You coached the Olympic team. Teams of countries have played against other countries. Does it matter if you're playing against a team like Russia right now after it's gone into Ukraine?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Right.

  Well, when there's been a World War, there are no Olympics. There's no competition or whatever. Personally, I wouldn't do anything with them. But that's at the next room where it happens, not in my room.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Over the course of his career, Krzyzewski has never shied away from voicing his opinions.

• Protesters:

  Black lives matter~!

• Protesters:

  Black lives matter~!

• Judy Woodruff:

  In 2020, when the murder of George Floyd rocked the nation, he released a video statement after a series of conversations with his current and former players.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Black lives matter. We should be saying it every day. It's not political. This is not a political statement. It's a human rights statement.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Do you think college sports have done as much as it could have to address systemic racism? We all agree there's systemic racism.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Yes.

  No, I think it's done a really good job, and especially in providing opportunities. Sport has given people who — youngsters who did not have the economic ability to go to a college to go to college in so many sports, and Title IX for women and helping in that regard.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And how do you think we're doing in the rest of the country when it comes to race?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  No, we're not doing well.

  I mean, why does one part of Congress sit on this side and the other sit on that side? And, yes, my thing is, two is better than one if two can act as one. Dammit, it would be a hell — we would hell of a lot better country if two can act as one in every regard. And that's not the case.

  And both are at fault.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And yet a major hangup right now is over one issue.

  And that's whether the 2020 presidential election was fairly decided or not. And one group of people…

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  But that's crazy. Yes. Well, that — to me, that's nuts.

  Look at the other thing is, everyone in our country should have the ability to vote in the easiest possible manner.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And yet there are active efforts right now to make it harder.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  Crazy. I think that's nuts.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Every corner of Krzyzewski's office is a living monument to a man who has achieved success through regimen and structure.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  That's the price you have to pay, the preparation. The night before practice, I would write out a practice plan.

  So, in 47 years in U.S., I have probably written 5,000 practice plans.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Now, for the first time in nearly half-a-century, his entire routine will change.

  So, as you sit back and — or sit forward, at this stage of your life and your career, what do you take with you right now?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  For my whole career, I was a car that never had a rearview mirror.

  Once I did something, it was done. I call it next play all the time. No regrets. Gave it my best. Is that going to bother you, they beat you or you won? You know what? It doesn't make any difference. I'm on to the next thing.

  Now I have reflected some, but not so much about games. For me, it has been very emotional, but very gratifying, in not remembering that we won a national championship or we lost our last game or whatever, but what really matters is people.

  And we have had a tremendous impact on people during the five — almost five decades we have coached.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Still no regrets?

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  I have no regrets.

  I mean, send out so many autographs. And, for youngsters, there are two things that I write a lot. One is, always try your best. And, to me, you're a winner if you always try your best. And another thing is, follow your heart in the pursuit of your dreams.

  I have done both of them. And I have been a lucky guy.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Mike Krzyzewski, a lucky guy, thank you very much.

• Mike Krzyzewski:

  You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And we were glad to have that conversation.

  And he says he is taking his time to figure out what he's going to do next.

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