The potential fallout for the country as Trump and Musk escalate public feud

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• Amna Nawaz:

  We begin tonight with the fallout from the extraordinary public feud between President Donald Trump and billionaire Elon Musk that followed their public rift over Mr. Trump's massive tax and spending bill. The president this morning reportedly said he thought Musk had lost his mind and that he won't be speaking with Musk for a while.

• Geoff Bennett:

  For his part, Elon Musk sparred publicly throughout the day with former Trump adviser Steve Bannon on social media, calling him a criminal. That came after Bannon suggested that Trump should have the government seize control of SpaceX and investigate Musk's immigration status.

  Musk, who was born in South Africa, has been a naturalized U.S. citizen since 2002.

  For more, we're joined now by Tyler Pager, White House correspondent for The New York Times.

  Tyler, thank you for being with us.

  So you and your colleagues have new reporting on what triggered this Trump-Musk rupture. What set it off?

• Tyler Pager, White House Correspondent, The New York Times:

  Yes, thanks so much for having me.

  And I think it's important to note that this relationship has been eroding over time. There's been several points over the last few months where Trump and Musk have distanced themselves from one another. But one key flash point that my colleagues and I are reporting today in The New York Times is the decision by President Trump to withdraw the nomination of Jared Isaacman for — to run NASA.

  He is a close ally of Elon Musk. And NASA is one of the most critical agencies for SpaceX, Elon's space exploration company. And Elon grew very upset with the decision by Trump to withdraw the nomination.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Today, though, neither side seemed to see the benefit of escalating their rhetorical attacks.

  What are you hearing from the White House about what might come next?

• Tyler Pager:

  Yes, the White House has made clear the president is not all that interested in engaging right now with Elon Musk.

  At the same time, as you note, the president has not continued to attack Musk on social media. Both have sort of laid down after a tit for tat yesterday over the course of several hours. That was just remarkable to see play out in the open, though I can say White House officials have told me the president is considering selling the Tesla he bought in March.

  And that was done as sort of a goodwill gesture to Elon Musk, whose company had faced some backlash from his association with the Trump administration.

• Geoff Bennett:

  And, this morning, we saw that Tesla still parked on the White House grounds.

  Well, after this spat, Tesla shares dropped by 14 percent. According to Bloomberg, Musk's personal net worth dropped $34 billion. So the president has shown that he's willing to wield the full power of his office against his perceived enemies.

  What would that look like in Musk's case? You mentioned the relationship between NASA and SpaceX. What else?

• Tyler Pager:

  Yes, the president said yesterday on TRUTH Social, his social media platform, that maybe the government should consider cutting all the contracts and tax subsidies that they give to Elon Musk's companies, that, over the years Elon Musk's company, particularly SpaceX, but also Tesla have received billions of dollars in government contracts and subsidies.

  So it would be a significant hit to those companies if Trump followed through on that threat. It seems that he has not continued to make that threat. But it shows you just how intertwined Elon Musk's private business is with the federal government.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Yesterday, Elon Musk appeared to flirt with impeachment talk, impeaching President Trump, hinted at forming a new political party.

  Trump allies appear to be closing ranks around him. But is there any long-term political risk here for President Trump?

• Tyler Pager:

  Yes, President Trump, as my colleagues reported in this new story, has been going around telling people in the last few days that his poll numbers are better than Elon Musk's, a sign that he is not all that concerned about Elon Musk's political influence.

  But one thing that is important to note is that Elon Musk is a huge financial backer, not just of the president, but of the broader Republican Party. And Musk had signaled to Trump aides that he would give $100 million to groups controlled by pro-Trump allies. Our understanding, as a few days ago that money, had not yet been received.

  So there is a financial component to this relationship. And that is uncertain going forward.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Is this more than just a personal feud, Tyler? I mean, does it reveal a deeper fracture between the populist right and Silicon Valley or even within the Republican coalition itself?

• Tyler Pager:

  Yes, I mean, that is exactly what Steve Bannon, one of the president's former top advisers, told me yesterday when we spoke on the phone.

  He has long railed against Elon Musk's role in the Trump administration and the broader MAGA movement. And so I think there is some people that want to use this as an opportunity to separate the MAGA movement from some of the billionaires and yank it back to Bannon's view of populism.

  I think it's too early to say whether this is a permanent fracture or just more of a personal falling out that maybe recovers in the coming days. But there are real repercussions for the broader Republican Party should Trump and Musk not repair this relationship. Elon Musk has shown that he's willing to use his fortune and his social media platform to wield it against critics, whether that is Democrats or Republicans.

• Geoff Bennett:

  In the 30 seconds we have left, when Steve Bannon says he's pushing the president to use the Defense Production Act to seize SpaceX or to investigate Elon Musk's immigration status to make sure that his immigration papers were handled properly, how seriously is that being taken within the White House, based on your reporting?

• Tyler Pager:

  I mean, I think it's a little premature to say that that is the next step the administration is going to take.

  I spoke with numerous White House officials today who said the president is not solely focused on Elon Musk today, rather focused on the economy and the legislation he's trying to push through Congress.

  But Steve Bannon is an influential voice in the MAGA movement and has a relationship with Donald Trump. So it's important to keep track of what he's saying.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Indeed.

  Tyler Pager, thanks, as always. We appreciate it.

• Tyler Pager:

  Thanks for having me.