The significance of the prisoner swap between the U.S. and Venezuela

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• Geoff Bennett:

  In a high-profile prisoner swap, 10 Americans are heading home tonight after the U.S. freed a top ally of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Six of the Americans were judged wrongfully detained by the U.S. State Department.

• Amna Nawaz:

  As part of the deal, the Maduro government also agreed to free 20 Venezuelan political prisoners and a fugitive defense contractor, Leonard Francis, will be returned to the United States. He fled before sentencing in a massive bribery scandal involving the U.S. Navy.

  President Biden, returning to the White House tonight, took questions on the swap.

• Question:

  hat can you tell us about Venezuela, why is it okay for the U.S. to negotiate with the Maduro government, sending back people in Justice Department custody?

• Joe Biden:

  It's okay because we're freeing Americans, people who are held illegally, and we made a deal with Venezuela that they'll hold free elections, and so far they've maintained their requirements and that's it.

• Amna Nawaz:

  For more on the significance of this deal, we turn now to Jonathan Franks. He's an expert on crisis management and has worked on the successful release of several other Americans detained overseas.

  Jon, welcome back. It's good to see you.

  You represent one of the families of the Americans freed today, 38-year-old Savoi Wright. What can you tell us about the timing, about why he and the others were released today?

• Jonathan Franks, Founder, Lucid Strategies:

  Thanks for having me.

  I'm not sure exactly why today came. I mean, I imagine just the negotiations came to a conclusion. But this is obviously a great day both for my clients in that Savoi is back and also for our whole hostage community.

  I mean, I think we lost four or five families today out of Bring Our Families Home Campaign, and I'm really excited about that, because that means there's four more, five more families that have been made whole.

• Amna Nawaz:

  What else can you tell us about some of those negotiations? We know Savoi was held since October, I believe, right? He was the most recently detained American, but the others for much longer.

  What can you tell us about what happened to those negotiations over time?

• Jonathan Franks:

  I — honestly, I'm not privy to it. I mean, I have got to give the administration credit. They have done an amazing job. This is a historic deal.

  I think that they — those who say that this was a tough decision to send Mr. Saab home don't know much about what Mr. Saab is accused of or the collateral damage that that prosecution caused.

  So, a 10-for-1 deal, 10 Americans for one, plus 20 Venezuelan souls, is a heck of a deal. The president had a moral obligation, and I'm proud of him for doing it.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So what about that businessman, Alex Saab? I'm sure you have seen there are some folks criticizing the deal. This is a man who was awaiting trial in Miami on federal money laundering charges, right? He's a supporter and an ally of the Maduro government.

  There are those that say this exchange incentivizes foreign governments, especially adversarial ones, to take more Americans' hostage because it means they can free their allies and friends. What do you say to that?

• Jonathan Franks:

  It's a complex situation. There's no actual evidence that that is true, that it incentivizes more hostage-taking.

  But, obviously, I concede that it logically follows. I think what we have to keep in mind, right, is Mr. Saab was a white-collar criminal. He's a Colombian national that allegedly stole from Venezuelans, right? He was arrested in the Cape Verde, and we extradited him.

  There were real-world consequences to that decision on hostages being held in Venezuela. It turned the Maduro regime into the leading collector in the world of American hostages. So I think there's a — it's a double-edged sword, right? In a sense, we incentivized a lot of hostage-taking by taking Mr. Saab.

  And, no, I don't think that bringing Americans home today incentivizes more hostage-taking.

• Amna Nawaz:

  What about Leonard Francis? We know he's more widely known by his nickname Fat Leonard. He's behind a $35 million bribery scheme. It's the largest corruption scandal in U.S. military history. As part of this deal, Venezuela is returning him to the United States.

  What does that part of this negotiation tell you about the deal?

• Jonathan Franks:

  I think there was a desire to clear the decks, right?

  And Mr. Francis, or Fat Leonard, as he goes, needs to face justice for what he's done. And it's my understanding he's already convicted. So, he needs to face responsibility. So, I think it's another positive to this deal and a piece of it that perhaps the administration isn't getting credit for.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Finally, we mentioned earlier, six of the Americans freed, including your client, Savoi, were deemed wrongfully detained by the U.S. government. That means four of the other Americans who were freed were not deemed wrongfully detained.

  What should people understand about that? Does that mean that their detention in Venezuela was justified?

• Jonathan Franks:

  I think it doesn't necessarily. Just the — the process to be designated wrongfully detained is difficult.

  And in countries like Venezuela, the government often prohibits defendants from getting copies of court documents. And it is really hard to provide the kind of documentary evidence that is necessary to qualify for designation under the Levinson Act when the person holding your loved one refuses to provide you even one document.

  We didn't even have a charging document in Savoi's case.

• Amna Nawaz:

  What else can you tell us about how Savoi is doing today or his family?

• Jonathan Franks:

  The last time I talked to his family, they hadn't heard from him yet, but they are incredibly excited.

  It has been a difficult several months. And when I entered this case, this family was being actively extorted for a very healthy five-figure sum. And there — just nobody was there to help them. So I very much enjoyed getting to know his family. I can't wait to meet Savoi. He sounds like a fascinating guy.

  And I think, if he's guilty of anything, it's falling in love with Venezuela.

• Amna Nawaz:

  It's a good day for that family and many others.

  Jon Franks, thanks for speaking to us tonight on this historic prisoner swap between the U.S. and Venezuela. I appreciate your time.

• Jonathan Franks:

  Thanks for having me.

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