‘We had an awful choice’: Schumer defends voting with GOP saying shutdown would be worse

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• Geoff Bennett:

  Democrats have few options for challenging President Trump and the GOP majorities in the House and Senate. But some on the left say they had a chance to do just that last week, when Senate Republicans needed votes from their Democratic colleagues to pass the government funding bill.

  The top Democrat, Senator Chuck Schumer, however, voted with the GOP and supplied the needed votes, angering many in his party.

• Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA):

  Let me be clear. In my time in Congress, never, ever has one party written partisan, full-year appropriations bills for all of government and expected the other party to go along without any input.

• Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-PA):

  I would have liked to see when Chuck Schumer had leverage here to say, we need A, B, C and D for the Democratic Party and force the Republicans to meet him halfway.

• Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY):

  To see Senate Democrats even consider acquiescing to Elon Musk, I think it is a huge slap in the face and I think that there's a wide sense of betrayal if things proceed as currently planned.

• Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA):

  I myself don't give away anything for nothing. And I think that's what happened the other day.

• Geoff Bennett:

  We spoke with Senator Schumer earlier today about that criticism, Democrats' path forward and his new book, "Antisemitism in America: A Warning."

  Leader Schumer, welcome back to the "News Hour."

• Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY):

  Glad to be back.

• Geoff Bennett:

  I want to start with your support of the GOP funding bill and the criticism that you have received as a result.

  I know that you maintain that a shutdown would have been far worse than passing the Republican bill. What do you see that the vast majority of Hill Democrats don't see? Why are they wrong in saying that you should have blocked?

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Well, Geoff, I knew when I made my decision there'd be a lot of people who disagreed with it, but I felt it was imperative that I do.

  The C. — we had an awful choice, a Hobson's choice, between a C.R. bill, which had no Democratic input, a continuing resolution to fund the government, and a government shutdown. As bad as the C.R. bill was, the shutdown, I'd say, would be 15, 20 times worse, and let me explain.

  In a shutdown, the whole government shuts down, and then the executive branch solely determines what is — quote — "essential" and what is not essential. So they could say on day two of the shutdown, SNAP, food for kids, not essential. On day four, no transit funds, mass transit or other, are essential. We will only declare as essential in the transportation bill air traffic controllers.

  On day six, Medicaid, half of it not essential. We can cut Medicaid, cut rural hospitals, cut community health centers. And who has the power to do this? The executive. The courts have ruled that they have no say, that the executive makes the sole determination.

  Now, in the old days with a shutdown, they might do little things around the edges, but look who's in charge now, Musk, DOGE, and probably worst of all this man, Vought — you spell his name, V-O-U-G-H-T — he's in charge of OMB, which determines the shutdown. They want to slash the federal government. They want to cut it in half, all so they can give tax breaks to their billionaire friends.

  And making it even worse, there's no exit strategy. In other words, how long do you stay in the shutdown? It's totally up to those evil people who hate the federal government, who hate all the good things that we have been able to do.

  One of the Republican senators told the Democratic Senator, if you go to shutdown, we will be in it for six, nine months until we destroy the federal government. So, while certainly the C.R. was bad, when you just had those two choices, in my view, the shutdown had to be avoided.

• Geoff Bennett:

  But when you hear the governor of Pennsylvania say that you squandered your leverage, or Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi saying that you gave up the votes and got nothing in return, how does that strike you?

  There are Democrats who say that, if the government had shut down, you force Republicans to own it. All the pain that Americans would feel that you just described, Republicans would pay the political price. Why not be as tactically ruthless as Republicans have shown themselves to be?

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Well, first, there was no choice. The Republicans had given us, when they sent it over from the House, just two choices. C.R. as is or shutdown. There was no other choice.

  But, second, if you think that these Republicans would come to us and say, oh, we shouldn't have shut down the food stamps, we shouldn't have shut down Medicaid, we shouldn't have slashed the federal government, I don't think that's at all an accurate reading of who they are and what they are.

  And the danger that my prognosis is correct, which I believe it is, was so, so great, in terms of destruction, they could furlough employees forever and just have the federal government shrink to half its size en masse. That would have been the worst, worst, worst alternative. And there was no — no — to rely on Republicans, oh, we surrender, we will come to the table because what we're doing is bad, doesn't make sense to me.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Beyond the questions about this bill, there are deeper questions, as you well know, about the approach, the sense among Democrats that the Donald Trump of the second term is more emboldened, more defiant, more divisive, more dangerous, many Democrats believe, than the Donald Trump of the first…

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Right.

• Geoff Bennett:

  … and that Democrats appear divided…

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Geoff, I believe that too. I believe that too.

• Geoff Bennett:

  … and ill-equipped to put up a fight.

  So what's the strategy to meet the goal?

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Yes. Well, look, OK, so we — there were divisions, as I said. I knew that some — many people would disagree with me.

  I felt, Geoff, as a leader, my job, if there was such danger, such tragedy, such horror a little bit around the curve, that I as leader had the obligation to make sure that didn't happen, even though I knew there'd be disagreement.

  But, going forward, we are all united, Hakeem and I and all of us. And what are we united doing? Focusing on how bad Trump is.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Channeling what I would imagine would be some of the pushback from the Democratic base, it would be that naming and shaming with Donald Trump doesn't work. That's what Democrats have done for the past two years.

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Well…

• Geoff Bennett:

  In this last election, he won the popular vote, the Electoral College, every battleground state. So the rules of political gravity, press conferences and bold statements and coordinated tweets, it doesn't work.

  (Crosstalk)

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  No. No.

• Geoff Bennett:

  I mean, what does the fight look like in 2025?

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  We're going to go after — we're going after him in every way.

  And, by the way, the people before who said he'd be shamed and come to the table, that's the exact opposite of what that is. So you can't have it both ways. But I would say this. We are — we — in 2017, when he was last here, Nancy Pelosi and I said we're going to go after him on health care. He was very unpopular with that. We're going to go after him on tax breaks for the rich.

  And then we won the House and picked up some seats in the Senate in 2018. Same thing is going to happen now. And we're going to go after him in so many different ways. We are doing much better on the social media led by Cory Booker and Tina Smith in our house. And so we're reaching people who were not reached before.

  We are — we are mobilizing in New York. We have people going to the Republican districts and going after — going after these Republicans who are voting for this and forcing them to either face — change their vote or face the consequences. This is a long, relentless fight that we fight every day.

  And I am confident that we will bring Trump's popularity numbers and strength down if we keep at it and keep at it and keep at it.

• Geoff Bennett:

  There are those who believe that we are in real time living through an assault on the constitutional order. Do you believe that we are in a constitutional crisis right now?

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Yes, our democracy is at risk because Donald Trump shows that he wishes to violate the laws in many, many different ways.

  The good news here is, we did put 235 judges, progressive judges, judges not under the control of Trump, last year on the bench, and they are ruling against Trump time after time after time. And we hope that the appellate courts, when it gets up there, and the Supreme Court will uphold those rulings. They restored the money to NIH. They required that 8,000 employees, federal employees, have to come back.

  We're in over 100 lawsuits against them, and we are having a good deal of success. It's only at the lower court level right now.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Let's talk about your new book out now, "Antisemitism in America." That's the title of the book.

  You are the highest-ranking Jewish elected official in America ever. And you write that you once felt that your Jewish identity could be worn lightly, but that you now feel it's your duty to alert our country to the rising tide of antisemitism.

  There are a number of audiences for this book, but you have a particular message for people on the political left. What is it?

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  So, my book is aimed at five groups, first, my generation, to show people, I know you're feeling alone. Jews tend to feel alone in these times. We're all united in solidarity.

  Second, to their children, our children, the children of our generation. They're pro-Israel, they are pro-Jewish, but they know — don't know the history, the struggles we have had. Third is aimed at non-Jews of goodwill who are friendly with Jewish people, and they know antisemitism around, but they tend to think, oh, it's not that bad. Why are they making such a fuss?

  They don't carry 5,000 years of Jewish history on their back. Fourth is the left. There's always been vicious antisemitism on the right. In fact, I was within 30 feet of the hooligans who invaded the Capitol on January 6. And one of them said: "There's the big Jew. Let's go get him."

  They wore sweatshirts that said: "Six million was not enough."

  But on the left, it's in a different way. It is a little more subtle, but it's equally harmful, because when people — legitimate criticism of Israel, fine. I do it. I have — I have gotten some people in the Jewish community mad because I have done it.

  But crossing it over, going on a subway car and saying, all right, who's a Zionist on this subway car? Stand up. We want to get you out of the subway car, telling people that Jewish people are vicious and nasty and horrible and exploiters, these kinds of things have created such huge problems for us in the past that I just — I warn the left, be really careful.

  Don't let that anti-Israel criticism slide into antisemitic criticism, which it all too often does. The final group, by the way, I'd like to read it is the kids of America, the younger people of America. I'd like every college to have this book and have their students read it, every high school.

  Do you know that 20 percent of people under 25 believe the Holocaust was a myth? Another 50 percent don't even know what the Holocaust was. And so we need education, because that has always been one of the greatest antidotes against antisemitism, teaching people the actual truth.

• Geoff Bennett:

  In the Oval Office days ago, President Trump condemned you, saying that you aren't Jewish anymore. He called you a Palestinian, using that word as an insult.

  In the past, he has questioned why Jewish Americans would vote for the Democratic Party, which many people see as deeply offensive. And yet the White House makes claims of alleged antisemitism on college campuses as a way of cracking down on universities. How does that strike you?

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  It strikes me as Donald Trump has always regarded Jews as transactional, people he can use. He regards them, oh, he needs money, he needs votes. He can use the charge of antisemitism, even going way beyond where it is.

  And he's done lots of things that encourage other antisemites. He sat down with this guy Fuentes one of the greatest antisemites in America. When — in Charlottesville, when they rioted against the Jews and wanted to harass or even burn down a temple, he said both sides have merit.

  He has allies who have this Great Replacement Theory, which is an antisemitic theory, which says the Jews are trying to bring immigrants into America so it will no longer be white. And so far too often Donald Trump has just encouraged or turned the other eye when there are antisemites around.

  As for calling me a Palestinian, don't tell my mother.

• Geoff Bennett:

  The book is "Antisemitism in America: A Warning," its author, Senator Chuck Schumer.

  Thanks again for joining us. We appreciate your time.

• Sen. Chuck Schumer:

  Good to be here. Good to be here. Thank you.

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