The FRONTLINE Interviews
Andrea Dew Steele
Harris Adviser
Andrea Dew Steele served as an adviser to Kamala Harris’ 2002 campaign for district attorney of San Francisco. Dew Steele was a co-founder of both Emerge California and Emerge America, an organization created to increase the number of Democratic women serving in politics.
The following interview was conducted by the Kirk Documentary Group’s Mike Wiser for FRONTLINE on July 23, 2024. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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Kamala Harris’ Early Political Promise
Well, let's just start at the beginning.When do you first meet Kamala Harris?
I moved to the Bay Area in 2000, to work for Susie Tompkins Buell.She was the co-founder and co-owner of Esprit Clothing, and I was her political advisor, and I ran her foundation.And Susie started an organization called Women Count, to recruit women to vote.And Kamala was on the board of directors of that organization.So I started interacting with her in that capacity, as political advisor.
And I started observing her in board meetings, and just interacting with people, and that was when I started talking to her about running for office.Because, from the beginning, I saw that she had incredible charisma.She had a certain presence.She was a leader in the meetings.She often was able to make such great arguments, and bring people around.So that was when I met her.
So back in 2000, before you said, “You would be great for politics,” do you think that she had a hankering for politics?Was she interested in politics at that point?
I think that she wanted to make a difference.She really wanted to affect change.She was very passionate about all issues related to children and women and girls.And what I saw was, she was just trying to figure out how she could have the biggest impact.She was on boards.She was doing meaningful work at that time, in the city attorney's office.So I think that was always on her mind, how can she affect change.
What was she like as a person, when you talked to her, when you would meet her?
Well, I have to admit that at the beginning, I was quite intimidated by her.I was a young staffer.She was always very commanding.And so I had to get over that a little bit at the beginning.But once I started getting to know her, she was very warm and funny, and just a lot of fun to be around.
And it's interesting, you say that she was a little bit intimidating.And that's one of her political challenges, is who is she?Is she a prosecutor—sort of an intimidating figure?I mean, is that how you saw her then?Was that how she was defining herself, as a prosecutor?
She has this presence and confidence, that's part of why, when I spent time with her, I thought, this woman needs to be leading big things.Because it came across.And that natural confidence, that not everyone has, I really loved it.And at the same time, it was a little bit intimidating, because, you know, you wanted to make sure that you were just on the right side, when she was making an argument, because she could be so persuasive.
I mean, were you the only one at that point who identified, “This is a rising star, this is somebody who could have a political future”?Or did she have a reputation at that point?
I think a lot of us saw great things in her.She was being recruited to serve on boards.She was constantly in demand.And I definitely wasn't the only one who saw something in her.
Shyamala Harris, Kamala’s Mother
As you get to know her, did you talk to her about her biography, about her mom, about where she came from?
Definitely.She was always talking about her mother.Her mother was her big influence in her life.And I actually knew her sister, Maya, before I ever knew Kamala.Maya's husband, Tony West, was my first boss in politics.So I had known a little bit about the family already.And she was very influenced by her mother, very, very close to her sister as well.
I mean, because her mom's story is so remarkable, to come from India at such a young age, and against societal expectations, and to pursue science and become a cancer researcher.I mean, what was her mom like?And what influence do you think that had on Kamala Harris?
I think it had a tremendous influence.To be raised by a woman who was so confident that she could get on a plane, and leave India, and come to the United States, and forge her way, and raise these two amazing girls, who turned into incredible women.I definitely believe that her mother was just a tremendous influence in her life.And she is who she is, because of her.
And you met her?
Yes I did.She would come in during the campaign, during the campaign for DA, and sit, and volunteer, just like anybody else.
And what was she like?
She was just a worker bee, a lot like Kamala.She wanted to just get in there, and do the work, and help her daughter get elected to her first office.
Was she demanding of the girls?Did she set high expectations of them?What was that, if you have any insight into that relationship?
I think she had to have, to have raised these incredible, amazing women leaders.And again, both of them, because her sister is phenomenal too, she had to have had high expectations of both of them.
San Francisco Politics
… The world of San Francisco politics; you meet her in 2000, what is it like?And you've come from outside of San Francisco, so you might have an insight into how it works.What's the environment that she's operating in, as a politician, or a potential politician?
Well, like most cities, there is and was machine politics.And it's tough in cities.I think cities are very difficult places to run for office, in general, for your first office.Because people really care deeply about city politics, because whatever happens in their city, it affects them deeply.So, whether there's a stop sign, or whether their trash is picked up, or whether their child gets prosecuted or not, these are all very personal issues.
So I think San Francisco is like most cities, in that it's quite a tough, a tough environment.And at the time, we had these incredible leaders.I mean, think about the history of San Francisco, and Nancy Pelosi, and Dianne Feinstein.Barbara Boxer wasn't from San Francisco, but outside of San Francisco.Gavin Newsom was rising just at the same time, so he wasn't really on the scene.But we had these incredible leaders already in the city.So it was quite an interesting place.
In terms of women in politics, there were very few women.There were only two women out of 11 supervisors.We had only had one woman mayor in the history of San Francisco.Of course, we'd never had a woman DA.So women certainly had not achieved the certain, you know, certain success that they have now.So it was tough.It was tough for women in the city.
I read about—well, maybe you know what the statistics were for prosecutors.Just for the line prosecutors at the DA's office.I mean, was she one of a few when she starts in Alameda, and moves into San Francisco?
One of a few women, definitely, absolutely.Women were very underrepresented in the prosecutorial field.And certainly, women of color were even more underrepresented.And when she decided to run for DA, let's just say she was doing something that very, very few women had chosen to do.There had never been a person of color in the district attorney—any district attorney office in the state of California at that time.And very, very few women.
I've read a reference to an article where she was talking, I think to the Emerge group about what it's like to be a woman running in politics, and she said, “There's absolutely a double standard that you need to be aware of.Being a woman, that some would consider attractive, has its own baggage.People assume you're not substantial.If you step out, then you create enemies.” I mean, can you help me understand what she understood about the challenges of being a woman in politics in 2003-2004?
I think she realized that you have to walk a fine line, because you have to be able to not come across as being too strident, or edgy.You have to be likable—all of these things that we know are, quite frankly, still true for women in politics.So she recognized that she had to walk these fine lines.But I think, because she had been always doing it her whole life, she had been walking fine lines, she had been navigating race, and gender, she was uniquely positioned, and still is uniquely positioned, because of her history.
Harris Doesn’t Respond to Sexist or Racist Criticism
It's an interesting thing about her, because I saw an interview where she was talking about Donald Trump and criticisms of him that he'd made of her, that, you know, some considered to be sexist or racist.And she said something like, “I've been hearing it my whole life.” And then sort of moves on from it.I mean, what is her MO from her life in dealing with those kinds of attacks?
I have to tell you, that I think that is one of the secrets of her success.And it's a secret for other women in power.If you're able to take in the negativity, and not let it affect you, that is your superpower.And that was her superpower, from the beginning.She was able to just not let it get to her.And it's again, something I recognized in her, that I thought she can do hard things, because she has this inner strength.And the fact that she doesn't let things get to her, because a lot of us do, but she's not like that.
Do you think that comes from her mom, or from the world that she was growing up in?Or it's just her?
I have seen a lot of women in politics.And I do think it's a combination, always.It's something innate that is a part of who she is.But it's also because of her upbringing.So I really think it's a combination of all of those factors.
Harris Runs for San Francisco District Attorney
In between that time, when you first start talking about, “I think you should be running,” and the time when she does announce … does she have to lay a groundwork for her campaign?
So what happened is, I was suggesting that she run for office.And then, one day, she came to me, and she said, “Andrea, I'm ready to run.What do I do?” And I said, “Well, what are you doing this week?Why don't you come over to my apartment, and we'll figure it out.” So she came over to my apartment.We sat down at my green desk, and I poured a couple glasses of red wine, and we started typing up her bio.Because I said, “You have to have a bio to do anything.So let's get that done.” And then she said, “Okay, what's next?” And I said, “Well, let's get your contacts in order, because you're going to have to raise money.”
And she pulled out this Filofax, this old-fashioned book of contacts; so she had no contacts in a database at all.So that was how we started her running for office.It wasn't like she had been preparing for years, and had been putting her contacts in, or doing anything like that.She basically decided to run, like so many women, but didn't know even how to get started, or she wouldn't have known how to lay the ground.She had always been building up her contacts, but it was mostly because of the activities in which she was involved.So she cared about domestic violence, so she was on a board helping that issue.But it wasn't like she had been plotting, or doing anything to prepare.
When you asked her about her bio, I mean one of the things she has said, other people have said, either as criticism or not about her is that it's hard for her to talk about herself, to tell her own story.And did you sense that at the beginning, that this wasn't the area she was most comfortable in?
It was always hard for her to talk about herself.She always wanted to promote other people, promote ideas, talk about things she'd done.And I have to tell you, again, that this is something that a lot of women face when they're running, is this discomfort with talking about yourself.And so she was very uncomfortable promoting herself.And it was a challenge.
What's the tactic that she takes?How does she decide to sell herself, that she's the one who should be elected to become DA?
She talked a lot about the issues that she cared about.So again, women and children, domestic violence, keeping people safe.She was so passionate that her passion came through for these issues.And that was really what drew people into the campaign.She also talked a lot about competence, and how she wanted to bring competency to the office of district attorney, and make the office work for San Franciscans.So that was really very, very compelling, when she was running for DA.
Was it an ideological race?I mean, some people said she ran to the right, that she was going to increase conviction rates, that you know, she was going to be tougher on crime.Is that true?
I think it was, again, much more about competence, and running an effective office, rather than—she wasn't trying to be as ideological, at all.It was much more about, “This is who I am.I can run a great office.I can pursue these issues I care about.” So that was more or less what the campaign was about.That's what I felt it was about.
I mean, in that very first race, she's facing some of the things that she'll face later, and some of the questions, gender questions, and the Willie Brown relationship is brought up.I mean, how does all of that play into her very first election?
Well, I want to take you back, because she decided to run against an incumbent district attorney, a white man, whose nickname was “K-O.” His name was Terence Hallinan, but he had boxed when he was young.So she was going against a formidable opponent who had lots of establishment endorsements behind him.So she was really doing something very difficult.This was not easy at all.So, when she decided to do it, and we did our first poll, and she was at six percent, it was an incredible challenge that she decided to take on.
And I just remember thinking, “Okay, you want to do this?I'm there for you.It is pretty amazing that you want to take on this man whose nickname is K-O.” But those of us who were there, we just said, “We're along for the ride.We will be there for you.And we believe in your vision.”
And what did she say when you gave her a poll that said, “You're at six percent”?
She said, “Okay.Well, what do we have to do to get that number up?”
I heard a story about her, about the campaign, putting together a picture or a brochure of all of the previous DAs, and what it would be like if she were to break this chain of white men as the district attorney.I mean, was that part of the message?And can you tell me about how that was communicated?
She's never really one to run on being a woman, a woman of color.But, of course, it was a factor.It was exciting.And it's always a line you have to walk when you have an amazing woman candidate.So how do you get people excited around this amazing, once in a lifetime, candidate, and still focus on really why they will be really great in that job, so what they will bring to it?But certainly, she drew in women.She drew in people of color.When you have candidates who look like the people in the city, it's inspiring.And so, she really brought in people, because of the historic nature of her candidacy.And she had to walk that line.And she walked it brilliantly.
Why do you think she won?
I think she won for a few reasons.One, she worked her butt off.She is such a hard worker.There was no stone left unturned.She loved going and talking to people, and standing at the Muni Station, and standing in front of the grocery store with her ironing board.And so she worked herself really, I don't want to say to death, but she worked really hard.She raised the money she needed to raise.You can't win an office in American politics if you're not a good fundraiser.
She also is really able to build coalitions.So she brought in so many different groups of people in the city.And that was amazing.And that's also what you need to do to run and be successful in San Francisco.And of course, she was an inspirational candidate, as she is today.She's incredibly inspiring.So that was also exciting.
Because I've heard these stories about her setting up the ironing board, and on the first day, and just meeting people.I mean, and she does enjoy that?Or she does it because that's what she needs to do, and that's what a politician needs to do?
Oh, I think she absolutely really enjoyed meeting people, standing there, talking with them.It was something that she was really good at.She excelled at it.And I only wish she could do it a little bit today.But clearly, she has more territory to cover.But she was really great at it and enjoyed it.
Did you know she had ambitions to go beyond the DA's office, to run for attorney general?
Oh, I have to tell you, Kamala was very strict about doing what she was doing, and not thinking ahead.When people would constantly say, “What are you going to run for next?What are you going to do next?” she would say, “I am focused on being the best district attorney I can be.” And she would not talk about other offices, until she decided to actually run.But she was a little bit superstitious, actually, about just focusing on what she had to do, and not thinking too far ahead.
I mean, throughout her career, this is a thing that happens, where she's relatively new at something, and they say, “She is the next Obama.” The expectations on her are tremendously high from the beginning.I mean, how does she handle something like that, and people having those expectations because of who she is, in some ways?
I believe that she just stayed focused.You know, she just really focused on the job at hand.And would not allow that kind of talk.She just wanted to do the best job she could do.Again, I think that's one of her superpowers, being able to just stay focused on what her job is.And she's done that very well in all of her positions.
I mean, but as you were watching her career, did you see her changing or learning?By the time she's running for attorney general, had she developed as a politician, or who she was?
She definitely developed as a politician, in a great way, in that she had learned the ropes in one of the toughest places in the country, in San Francisco, and felt like she could take that to a larger stage.But more than anything, I really believe she just thought, “I can affect more people if I'm in that bigger office.” So it was this drive to have a greater impact.And attorney general was a natural place for her to go, and a place where not many women had been.So it was exciting.I was thrilled when I learned that she wanted to actually run for attorney general.
Harris’ Background as a Prosecutor
And she talks about, she just—today, where she was talking about what she did as attorney general.I mean, how much of her identity as a politician comes from being the DA, comes from being attorney general, comes from that background as a prosecutor?
I think it really impacts her, tremendously, to this day.She is able to prosecute a case, make a case.She has such a strong feeling about justice.And I really believe it's who she is.It's a big part of who she is, and what will make her a great president.
And how does that change how she approaches things?We just had Joe Biden, who came as, you know, a lifetime in the Senate.And Donald Trump, who was a developer and real estate—I mean, and a reality TV star.And as she comes from the background of being a prosecutor, how does she approach that differently?Because you've worked with other politicians who don't come from that background.What does that background mean?How does that shape who she is?
Well, we have seen several women take this route.Jennifer Granholm was attorney general.Now we have Maura Healey in Massachusetts, she was attorney general and now is governor.So it's a great path to take, because it's really important for women to be perceived as being strong, and being able to keep people safe.So she has shown that she can do that.She's strong.She cares about people.But she can keep them safe.And that's what we all want.So I really believe it's a great, great background for a woman in executive office to have.
Harris Goes to the U.S. Senate
Did you know, before everybody, that she was going to run for Senate?
I didn't, actually, no.I had sat down with her, her campaign advisor, Ace Smith.And I actually wanted her to run for governor, because we have never had a woman governor of California.So I went, and I said, “Well, what is she going to run for?” And he said, “Senate.” And I said, “Oh, but she's an executive.” She has these incredible skills as an executive.And it's much harder to get women to run for executive positions.Women are more inclined to run for legislative positions.So I really wanted her to be an executive again.So I was a little bit, actually, disappointed, that she wasn't running for governor.
Were [you] worried maybe she would get stuck in the Senate?
Yes, yes, yes.And she is such a talented executive.So I knew she could do a good job as senator.But again, I wanted to see her break that glass ceiling in California, and be the first woman governor ever.We still haven't broken that glass ceiling to this day.But clearly, she wanted to do something different.And, of course, when she decided to do it, I was there to support her.
I mean, in that year, it must have been a bittersweet moment to be elected, and to have a woman running who loses to Donald Trump.How does that scramble Kamala Harris' life, as she comes in under Donald Trump coming into the presidency at the same time?
I think it was devastating for her, for all of us, for all of us who care about our democracy.And for her to go and serve in the U.S.Senate, with a president like that, must have been very difficult.And I really appreciate how she rose to the occasion.I mean, her grilling of Kavanaugh, it was incredible.She was able to bring her skills.Thankfully, they put her on the Judiciary Committee.So she figured out a way to really utilize her skills at a very difficult time in our history.And it must have been very difficult for her.
… Help me understand who she is in a moment like that, and how it comes from her background, and sort of the unique role she's playing in the Senate during those hearings.
I really believe that it was a unique role, because of her career as a prosecutor.And because she's not afraid of standing up to bullies, or people that she doesn't think really are telling the truth.So she's had to deal with that all her life.So she was uniquely qualified to go and do what she does best, to try to stand up and get the truth out of somebody.
But do you think that she drew more criticism, that she became more of something that was of interest on Fox News and other places, because she was a woman?
Oh, I think that all of our strong women candidates, look at what's happened to Nancy Pelosi.Look what happened to Hillary Clinton.It's incredible what they have had to go through.So yes, I think absolutely, she has endured tremendous sexism, racism, criticism.And she is stronger because of it.And I am confident that she's going to be able to handle it, because she's had to deal with it for so many years.
Harris’ 2019 Run for President
Were you at the Oakland announcement for 2020?
Yes I was, yes.
Can you take me there, and tell me what that was like?
It was a very, very momentous occasion.A big, big crowd.It was an amazing crowd in Oakland.And a very diverse community, which always, all of her events throughout the many years that I've known her, have always been just incredible in their diversity and excitement.And so, it was just, just so momentous and for those of us who had been there for so long, it was incredible.
Were you surprised that she ran so soon after getting into the Senate?
No, I wasn't surprised, because I think it was the right thing to do.It was a moment when so many women got in.We had five women.And it was a moment, let's not forget, Donald Trump had been elected.We had unfortunately not cracked that glass ceiling in 2016.And she was one of a pack of women who said, “Why not?Enough is enough.Why not me?” So I wasn't surprised, no.
And was she in it to win that, to win that race?… Because some people want to run for president to get attention, or raise their profile.Was she in that race to win it?
Absolutely.She's always in it to win it.She's a competitive human.She wants to run and win.So absolutely.I am confident she wanted to win that race.
I mean the moment, of course, that stood out, and is the debate moment with Joe Biden, when you watch that, what do you see in Kamala Harris, and who she is, in that moment?
I just see someone who is really able to stand up and not be afraid to say something challenging, something hard, something that might ruffle feathers.And I found that moment to be extremely moving, because she isn't someone who talks a great deal about her own personal experience, that I really was moved by her, and thinking of her being a young girl, getting on a bus.And I had never heard her talk about that before.
The version of that election that says it was a bad year to be a cop, to be a prosecutor, I mean, was that her problem in 2019-2020?
I absolutely think that we were in a moment where people didn't understand that being a good prosecutor is an amazing credential.It wasn't, in that moment, something necessarily that was appreciated.So I do believe that was a problem, that she couldn't just lean into her prosecutorial experience.
I mean the other criticism of her in that campaign is that it was hard for her to articulate a case.Do you agree with that analysis?
No.I just think, whenever you can't fully lean into your experience and who you are, and she was district attorney, and attorney general, those are big pieces of her experience, that I absolutely think she should be leaning into constantly.Because, again, you know, keeping people safe, being smart on crime, those are amazing credentials and experiences that she has, that I value, and one of the reasons that I'm supporting her.
Harris is Elected Vice President
How important do you think she was as the vice-presidential running mate to Joe Biden that year?
Oh, I think she was very important, very, very important.Because it helped Joe Biden.I mean, he's an old white guy.And we were, those of us who wanted to see a little more diversity, it really meant a lot to have her on the ticket.It really did.So I do think she brought a lot to the ticket.
I mean, when they were elected, did it feel like a historic moment, to you, who had been working with women in politics for much of your career?
It really did.I have to tell you, it was hard, because it was during COVID.So we weren't able to go and see her speak at the convention, or do all the things that we might have done normally.But it was very historic.And I really had to pinch myself, many times over.And I still pinch myself often, and when I—when I say, “Madam Vice President,” because it's—it's an amazing journey that she's been on, over these last 24 years.It's incredible.
Harris Becomes the Democratic Presidential Nominee
I mean, take me to Sunday, you know, as President Biden announces he's not going to run.And there's a 20-minute gap between when he endorses her.But take me to that moment, and what you're seeing as you read the letter, and eventually the endorsement.
Well, I was actually walking to church with my two kids—Grace Cathedral in San Francisco.And I could not believe it, first of all, that it came out.And my phone started going off.And so I went into the church, and I just started looking at my phone.My son was like, “Mom, you can't do that in church.” But I couldn't help myself.And I was where I was wondering, and worried a little bit, is he going to endorse her?And then, after 20 minutes, I got a text saying that he had endorsed Kamala.And I was over the moon about that, because I was very happy that he had made that decision to endorse his vice president.
And so, who is she in this moment?I mean, stepping into a moment of crisis for the Democratic party, an election that she and many Democrats believe is about democracy being on the line.Who is she in this moment?
I really believe that she is the person who is going to help save us from this incredible existential threat that is Donald Trump.He is a demagogue, which is the most dangerous kind of person that you can let in the door in a democracy.And it's incumbent upon her to prosecute this case, to show the American people that she can do this job, that she has the qualifications, that she has the temperament, that she really can wrestle the controls, you know, make sure that Donald Trump doesn't get back into the White House, with his finger on that nuclear button.
And how high does she see the stakes?
I believe that anybody who's interacted with Donald Trump, or knows about what government does, and how important government is, sees the threat.And she was there on January 6th.She knows what that felt like, too, that historical event that happened.So I absolutely believe she knows how high these stakes are.And she, I know I'm really confident that she's going to work her heart out, to make the case, to convince the voters that we need to convince.Because a lot of us are onboard.And the excitement that she has generated in just two days, is phenomenal.But I do believe she understands the stakes involved in this election.
Presumably, she doesn't agree with the critics who say America is not ready for a woman of color to be president.Why?And how much confidence does she have in that belief?
I think she knows that a woman of color can do anything that a white man can do.Why wouldn't she be able to?And yes, I do think her mother always told her, she can do anything.And she knows she can do anything, because she's broken all these barriers.And we've seen women of color do great things in our country.We still have a lot of barriers to break.We've only had three U.S.Senators who are African American women.… So there have been a lot of barriers that haven't been broken.But she's seen a lot of women do amazing things, like Stacey Abrams, and you know, I could go on and on about these great women leaders.But I do believe she's 100 percent confident in her abilities.
… But here she is, a prosecutor in an election against Donald Trump, charged, convicted.I mean, help me just frame the election in sort of those terms.
I do absolutely believe she was made for this moment.Yes.A prosecutor going against a convicted felon.She is ready to prosecute this case.She's ready.She's been doing it.She's been doing it beautifully, really laying out the reasons why Donald Trump is not fit to be President.And she will continue to make that case powerfully, in every single venue.So I absolutely believe that she is uniquely qualified, and ready for this moment.And I'm glad that she's the one who's going to be doing it.
What’s the Choice on the Ballot?
And so, I mean, and the last question we ask everybody on this project is, what is the choice?What's the choice that voters will face in November?What is on the ballot?
Everything is on the ballot.The most dangerous thing in our democracy is having a demagogue in power.Our founders wrote about it.Alexander Hamilton wrote about it in the Federalist Papers.They were worried about it at the beginning of our country.And so, we have a crisis here, where we have a demagogue running for office, who doesn't respect democracy, the rule of law, institutions.And we have Kamala Harris, who has devoted her life to public service, who, from an early age, as a young woman, decided to take on a tough challenge, and run for district attorney, because she cared about people, she cared about women, and children, and issues like domestic violence.And we have somebody who is tough as nails, in Kamala Harris, but is also smart, determined, capable, and believes in democracy, and believes in our institutions, and wants to see Americans flourish, and won't pit people against each other, and try to incite violence and hate.
So the choice could not be more stark in this election.And I hope that the voters decide to go with Kamala.
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