The FRONTLINE Interviews
Carole Porter
Harris Childhood Friend
Carole Porter is a childhood friend of Kamala Harris. Along with Harris, Porter was in the second class of students to integrate Berkeley public schools through a busing program.
The following interview was conducted by the Kirk Documentary Group’s Mike Wiser for FRONTLINE on July 24, 2024. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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Meeting Kamala Harris as a Child in Berkeley
Well, let's start at the beginning.When do you first meet Kamala Harris?
So I met Kamala Harris maybe about 12 steps out my front door, in 1971, at the corner of Bancroft and Browning in West Berkeley, California.The neighborhood we lived in was a redlined neighborhood.It was considered the Berkeley flatlands.And back in the '60s and '70s, there was a way to segregate.There was yellowlining and redlining.Yellowlining was more South Berkeley.Immigrants, Asian people lived there, generally.And then there was redlining, which was considered the hazard, because that's where Black people lived.Although our neighborhood was very, very integrated with immigrants from Europe, with immigrants from Asia, Africa, all over.I mean, we literally lived in a mini United Nations.
So that's our beginnings, middle- to lower-income neighborhood in Berkeley.And we met at the bus stop, because we were desegregating Berkeley public schools together.Berkeley, unlike some cities, went ahead in 1968 and decided to desegregate the Berkeley public schools.And they did it both ways.So the white kids would come down from the Berkeley Hills to the flatlands for school, and vice-versa.The kids of color, immigrants, would go to the schools up in the Hills.
At that time, there was a lot of white flight from Berkeley, because a lot of those parents in the Hills did not want their kids to go to school in the flatlands.So it kind of changed the constitution of Berkeley during the period of time I grew up, where there were a lot more people of color that lived throughout Berkeley.
And before I ask you about her, were you aware of that as a kid?
No, I absolutely was not.Well, I come from an interracial family.My mother is white, my father is Black.My mother is from Massachusetts, and my father is from Mississippi.And there are a lot of mixed kids, if you will, who lived in the neighborhood.But no.I think, you know, my parents were activists in their life, in the way that they lived, in the way of buying a home, raising five interracial kids, and working, and taking care of their family.As I got older, I realized that was their act of activism.
With Kamala's family, you know, as she's described many times, Shyamala was a lot more active as far as taking the girls to the protests near UC Berkeley, and really getting involved physically into the activism, as a part of, you know, carrying signs, and protesting.But all of us living together in our neighborhood, I feel, was an act of activism, and civil activism, in that we all lived together.And we all got along.And it was a really great neighborhood to grow up in.
We didn't know what we didn't have.And you know, Kamala, I think, and Maya were a lot more aware of what was going on in our world and society at that time because of the education from their mother.I was less aware.I didn't think about it.But I never felt like I was inhibited.I felt I could do whatever I wanted to do.
And what was she like then when you first meet her?
When I first met Kamala, and to this day, she has amazing confidence.I think she always had amazing confidence, and just agency and awareness of who she was, even as a young child.And that's not to say she wasn't a child.She played.We all played.And it was normal.But, if I think back as I've gotten older, and just knowing how she carried herself, she was very responsible, as many of us were.She took care of Maya.You know, Shyamala often had to work late.She was a research scientist at UC Berkeley.And just people, I think sometimes, think, “Oh, you make a lot of money.” No, you don't.Not especially if you're, you know, a five-foot, dark-skinned woman with an accent, from Chennai, India.So she worked late.And, you know, cancer research was her passion, and raising her daughters was her passion.And Kamala took care of what she needed to, to help her mother, and help her family.And I think she was really responsible in that way.
The other thing I still see with her, and I remember from a young age, is her listening a lot more than she spoke, just being very aware and astute of what was going on, what was around her, who was around her.
Do you know where that came from?
You know, I can only imagine.I mean, her mother was 19 when she came from Chennai, India, by herself, as a woman, in the 1960s.So I can only imagine that that came from Shyamala, who was very courageous at a young age, and had to have sensibility and agency about herself in order to make her way.So I can only imagine that a lot of that came from her mother and her upbringing.
Her grandparents, her father, her grandfather, I believe, was a diplomat.I did not know him.I used to sometimes, when we'd get to the bus, she would tell me her grandparents were there.And I remember her taking me to the window.They lived above a daycare center.We lived very close to each other.And she brought me to a window, because she wanted me to wave at her grandparents.So they were at the window, and we waved.And she told me they were there to visit.She was very proud of her family.
‘The Other Girl on the Bus’
You were referred to as the other girl on the bus.What did that mean?
So, when Kamala ran for president in 2019, you know, I was always supportive of her, from the time she ran from DA with her ironing board and her Kinko's copies in front of Safeway in San Francisco, to now, I have just been supportive, and positive, and optimistic of her as I could be.In 2019, my kids were off to college, and off living their lives, and I had time.And when she decided she was going to run for president, I said, “I'm going to get in.I'm all in.I'm going to help her with whatever she needs.”
And we got—I got a friend of mine, Stacey [Johnson-Batiste], also Kamala's bestie from kindergarten, called me, and said, “Carole, CNN said that Kamala didn't take the bus.Or someone told CNN that Kamala was never bused to school.” And I was like, “Well, I was sitting next to her, so I know she was there.” Long story short, I ended up going to the Liberty and Justice dinner in Iowa, in 2019, and supporting her there.And we were in a room, there was a group of us, supporters, who were talking to her.And I was telling Kamala, I said, “Kamala, I want to see the girl I got on the bus with, and we went to Thousand Oaks together.” … And she kind of laughed.And she said, “That's the other little girl on the bus.” So that's where that came from.
And when you see that photo, that people put on T-shirts and things, what do you see when you see that picture of Kamala Harris as a kid?
I see the girl I met at the bus stop.I see my friend, I consider her a friend.I see just a really strong person in her, with a lot of conviction.Of course, we were little.I didn't see that then.I just, you know, “Oh, there's Kamala.” But, when I look at it now, I see a determined, thoughtful person in those eyes.
I mean once she got off the bus, and you were at Thousand Oaks, at school, did you have a sense of the racial tensions going on?Were there some kids who teased you, or teachers?Were there challenges?
Well, I'll say this.When we got to Thousand Oaks, I felt like I was back in my neighborhood.That's how well Berkeley, I believe, prepared for this busing, in that the teachers at the school, the administrators at Thousand Oaks, all were representative of the multiracial component of kids that were going there.So I felt very comfortable there, personally, I felt comfortable there.Now, I'm not saying there weren't, you know, bullies.You know, that happened through school.I did get teased a lot, you know, being mixed race.It was a challenge sometimes.But my memories mostly of school at Thousand Oaks were really good.You know, riding the bus, going to school.We went to school with a lot of kids whose parents worked at UC Berkeley.So, you know, I had friends from various nationalities, countries sometimes.I had a really good friend who was Swedish.And it was a place I liked to go.I liked to go to school.And, as I recall, Kamala liked to go to school.
We weren't in the same classes, but oftentimes, they would put classes together for story time, or singing songs, or whatever.And so occasionally, I would see her there.But mostly, I saw her on the bus, back and forth on the bus, and then in our neighborhood where we grew up together and played.
Do you think that was like that for everyone?I saw, I think with your sister, where she had a different—
Yeah.I think everybody had a different, you know, situation.Most of my teasing was from Black kids, it wasn't from white kids, necessarily.You know.I had friends who were Caucasian in school.But normally, a lot of my teasing was from Black kids.And it was because I was mixed.I had a white mother.And frankly, my sisters and I grew up in a very white culture, from Massachusetts.And I'm proud of that.But that was different, right.It wasn't something that you see every day, at least not then.
I mean, because I'm wondering if that was that type of thing, because you know, and Kamala is also mixed.And if she would have had to face some of those similar types of things as a kid.
I'm sure she did, in a different way.We never talked about it.We did not talk about that, that kind of stuff.So whatever was going on with us, interpersonally, or you know, with other kids, I might have talked about it with my sisters at home, but I didn't talk to Kamala about it.And I don't really remember talking to other friends, necessarily, about it.It happened, but it wasn't like something that was all-consuming, that really was, you know, just so awful for me.
Harris Shrugs off Racist Criticism
The reason I'm interested in it is because I saw an interview with her, where she was talking about things Trump had said about her, and you know, racial issues, and gender issues.And she said something like, “You know, I've been dealing with people saying things like that my whole life.”
That's right.
And then she sort of moves on from that.
That's right.
And I'm trying to see, where does that come from?
Well, and that's where we grew up.I mean, I don't want to say we grew up in a tough neighborhood, but we grew up in a tough neighborhood.I mean around the corner from us was a street, it was called Bonar Street back then.It's still Bonar Street.But there was public housing there.And you know, there were kids in our neighborhood who were mean, and who were bullies.…
So, I mean, we grew up in a place where people called us—I'm sure she heard as many names as I heard, you know.And, you know, so when you get older, and you start hearing grown people, who are saying those kinds of things, you're like, oh my God.I mean, it's just not even worth a response.That stuff is nothing for her, because of where we're from.It's more ignorant.And I think, my mother always told us, “Sticks and stones.” And, you know, when we were called names or anything, she, I guess we had the confidence within our household, and the support of our parents.At least for me, I just really considered the source of who was doing that, and what was going on with them, rather than what was going on with me.
Berkeley in the 1960s and '70s
And you described a little bit about Berkeley at the time, which sounds like one of the more politically engaged places in America, with protests.Can you just help me understand what it would be like to grow up in Berkeley, if we saw what it looked like at that time?
So our neighborhood had small bungalow houses.I grew up in a house with seven people, five kids and two parents and one bathroom.And for a while, we had two bedrooms only.And then eventually my dad added on.I know, from going to Kamala and Maya's house, they lived on top of Shelton's daycare, which was right around the corner from us, and a place we gathered often, and was a very enriching, loving environment, with a lot of information and history about really prominent famous Black people.She lived upstairs.There were probably two bedrooms and a bath, I would guess, at that house.I would go there sometimes and wait for her to get her hair braided.And when we started walking to school in fourth grade.
Across the street from where Kamala lived, and a few houses from me, was Mayor Warren Widener, who was the first Black mayor of Berkeley, and I believe he served seven or eight years.We had two Oakland Raiders that lived on our block.And Huey Newton was friends with a lot of people in our neighborhood.He started a breakfast program down the street, at West Campus, which was a school for ninth graders, I believe at the time.
And, you know, what's so funny about that, for me, is I always knew of Huey Newton and the Black Panthers as really great people.And as I got older, I heard all this stuff about them, you know, doing all of these things that, to me, was really kind of far-fetched that they would have done anything like that, because of who they were.
Angela Davis was walking around oftentimes.She had actually ended up being a professor, a women's studies professor of mine at San Francisco State.So you know, Berkeley was a really eclectic, wonderful—for me—place to grow up.I know Kamala and Maya spent time with their mom at the Rainbow Sign, which was on Grove Street.My parents didn't go there that often.If I remember going there, maybe it was once.But you had really famous poets from San Francisco, Maya Angelou, Nina Simone, you know, people who were just coming up in their careers, but activists who would be there.And it was communal.You would bring a potluck and share.And we rode our bikes everywhere.We walked everywhere.Parents didn't give us rides.It was, to me, for me, it was a great childhood.It was a great place to grow up.My mother always told us that it was really special.
Shyamala Harris, Kamala’s Mother
And her mom not only was an immigrant, but was a woman, and a woman of color in this field.I mean, do you think that that shapes Kamala Harris' expectations for herself, and what she could accomplish?
I mean, Shyamala, I think, was inspirational to all of us.To come here at 19, and be dark-skinned, and have an accent, and be small, and you know, but really, really big in her mind, and in her vision of herself, and what she wanted for her family, to me is just so inspirational.She always told Kamala and Maya—and Kamala has said this—is, you know, “Don't let anyone tell you who you are.” And, you know, “You're unburdened.Go.Go do whatever you want to do.”
And that clearly came from Shyamala's parents.I mean, for them to let their daughter go to crazy Berkeley, California, in the 1960s, by herself, and she had to navigate her way through, that's pretty phenomenal.I mean that, I'm sure, has driven a lot of what Kamala and Maya have done.I mean, they're amazing women.
I think all of the kids, many of the kids that came from our neighborhood are doing great things.And we had parents that showed us how to do it.Not necessarily told us how to do it, but showed us how to do it.And Shyamala was definitely that parent.
And it sounds like she was very aware, too, of the racial issues in America, and the way the world is going to see her two daughters.And she makes an effort to connect to the Black community in Berkeley.What was that about, about her?
I didn't assume that there was anything that happened.But I remember reading or hearing Kamala talk about it.My mother had the same conversation with my sisters, in that we are going to be seen as—and we are Black women.And my mother even told us, she goes, “I don't know what that is like.But I'm here to support you in doing that, and being that person who you are.” And I know Shyamala intentionally did the same for Maya and Kamala, because she knew how they would be seen in America.
And you know, she had the wonderful blessing of Regina Shelton, who was a blessing in all of our lives.She was just this amazing, wonderful, warm, kind woman, an entrepreneur, really.I call her the matriarch of the neighborhood.I mean, she owned probably three or four properties on that block.And had this thriving child care center that was really centered in love, and authentically gave kids a really strong sense of self.My son went there.My niece Lauren went there.
And, growing up in our neighborhood, my youngest sister, you know, she was a teenage mom like Maya.… So we helped to raise our nieces.
We raised our nieces as our own, as our own children.That's why, when I hear stuff recently in the media, from JD Vance, who speaks about Kamala being childless; he knows nothing about Kamala.Kamala was everything for her niece, everything for her sister, as well as Shyamala.And the same with my family.I mean, I raised, helped to raise my niece as my daughter.I mean, my kids and my niece are like brother and sister.
She's getting this message, “Don't let other people tell you who you are.” But when you go back to when you were a kid, I mean, was something like president of the United States even something you could conceive of as a goal, as a kid at that time?
I believe so.I never thought I couldn't do anything.For me, for myself, I wasn't thinking about being president of the United States.But I think it was conceivable.And I could easily see how someone thought about it.And you have to remember, Shirley Chisholm was running.I think it was 1972, I believe, is when she made her bid.So, my parents talked about that at home.I remember my mother being angry about Richard Nixon.So I heard about politics.I didn't necessarily engage in it, but I heard about it.It was all around.So yes, I do think that was conceivable.And I could see why anyone, at least who grew up with us, in our neighborhood, would think that they could do whatever they wanted to do.
Yeah, it is fascinating to think about that place that you both grew up in, at that time.Did you know her father at all?
No.I knew of her father.But I did not know Mr.Harris at all.I knew sometimes the girls would go visit.But I didn't know him at all.
I mean, do you think that he left any impression on her?That must have been tough.
I don't know him.I don't know him.So I can't speak to it.
At Age 12, Harris Moves to Canada
I mean, as you describe it, she's growing up in this warm, sort of vibrant, diverse, not perfect, place.And then, when she's 12, her mom makes the decision to move to Canada.Can you help me understand that decision, and if that was a difficult move for her, to a place that's so different, and colder, and they speak French?
So I can't say I know really anything on that, other than being a kid and hearing from my mother, who probably talked to Ms.Shelton, or talked to another neighbor.But I knew they were moving.And I knew it had something to do with challenges that Shyamala was having at UC Berkeley.I mean, she was working really hard, and she was trying to move up.And I didn't really know all of the intricacies of it until I got older, but she was trying to move up, and they weren't doing it.And she was kicking up dust, which is what Shyamala did.She took care of business, and she was not quiet about her ambitions, I'm sure, or about people treating her badly.And so I believe she left.I just heard from my mother that Kamala was moving.… And I knew Shyamala was going to be a professor.I didn't know she was going to McGill at the time.But I know that's where she landed.And I remember, you know, I kind of lost touch with Kamala at that time, because I switched out of Berkeley public schools at that time.And my mother put us in Catholic school.So I had kind of a new friend group.…
And then, I remember running into Maya in Berkeley.You know, we were at a football game, I think.And I was like, “Oh, you guys are back?” And she was like, “Yeah.” She was going to another Catholic school in the area.And that's how I knew they were back.And then, another close friend of mine, who I went to San Francisco State with, told me that Kamala was going to Howard.And you know, and kind of went on from there.
And she always thought of the Bay Area as home.
Home was Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco, I think for all of us, that's home.And that's where all her people are.That's where a lot of her people are, all of her people are.Some of her people are in Chennai, India.But she has a strong friend group, and work group, people she worked with for years in the San Francisco Bay area.And that's home, yeah, for sure.
Harris Attends Howard University
And how did you hear that she was going to be going to Howard?
I heard from a girlfriend.… And that, my freshman year, that's how I found out she was going.And I was like, “Wow, that makes sense.I could see her going to Howard.” You know, Howard was a faraway place for me.I knew that it was a historically Black university.I didn't know a lot about it.But I knew I had some other friends that were going there as well.
Why did it make sense?
It made sense because it was far away.You know, I stayed in the Bay Area.It was far away.And Kamala was accustomed to and comfortable with leaving, and going, and doing things that were outside of her comfort zone.And I know that there was a lot of activism that was associated at Howard.And that's how she grew up.So I could definitely see her making that choice and being in that kind of an ecosystem, to participate in that.
Harris Becomes a Prosecutor
Do you see her again when she's back for law school or working in the DA's office?
Well, Kamala and I went to the same hair salon.So her hairdresser and my hairdresser had chairs next to each other.So every now and then, I would see her at the hair salon, and we might catch up there.Shyamala went there.Shyamala and I had the same hairdresser.I actually ran into Kamala at a party—a mutual friend of ours was having a party, and that's when I found out she was in her second year at Hastings.And she said she liked it.I could tell she had a lot of work to do, but she was enjoying it.And we didn't really talk anymore about it, besides that.We just kind of caught up.And I think her mother had just come back from India, bought her a really beautiful purse.In fact, that's how we started catching up, is because I was complimenting her bag.
But you know, she was just going to school and figuring out what she wanted to do.And the next time I saw her, outside of the hair salon, was when I was working—I worked for Channel 2 for about five years in the '90s.And she was at the Alameda County DA's Office.So I would see her [at] downtown Oakland, called Old Oakland.And there was a restaurant that a lot of people used to go to, which was right across the street from the Oakland jail, called Ratto's.You know, people would be in there eating, and so I would see her there every now and then.
And she was doing good.She had her suit on, her skirt.She was buttoned up, and ready to handle some business.
Yeah.It's interesting, because she comes from that background of her parents being activists.And she talks about having to defend the decision [to become a prosecutor] to her mom.I think she says, “Like you would have to defend a thesis.”
I believe that.I believe that.Shyamala was hard.Shyamala was hard.So I'm sure part of that was Shyamala really wanting to know why she decided that.But part of it was really helping Kamala know how to defend her case, and defend what she wanted to do, and be proud of it, and be able to talk about that in a way that made her feel good, and helped other people understand.Because I know she got a lot of flack for it.
Harris’ Political Rise
And is she a natural politician?I mean, in a glad-hander, in the way that you think about a politician?
Not to me.I see Kamala as a natural leader.I see her as a person that cares about other people.I see her as a person who really wants to make life good for all people, that all people have an opportunity and a chance in life.And that's how we were raised.Those were the belief systems and values that we were raised around, raised with.So she is a politician, clearly, because that's what she's had to be to get where she is.But that's not how I see her.I really see her as a caring, loving person, who wants to do the right thing for people, and make sure people have a chance, and lift people up.Because we were all raised that, if you go, and you have an opportunity, then you bring someone with you.And you make sure someone else has an opportunity to walk through that door.
What is it like to watch her, as she's running, and she's breaking into the news spaces?And it's not easy.I mean, that first campaign, there's questions about her romantic relationships with Willie Brown.And there's attacks on her.What is it like to watch your friend be in that gauntlet of San Francisco politics, which is pretty tough?
Honestly, it made me angry.I thought it was sexist.It's stupid.They don't ask men those questions.They don't say that stuff about men.So I knew she could handle it.I just thought it was stupid.Didn't make any sense to me.
But it is a little bit like the Kamala Harris that we were talking about as a kid, who has some ability to move on, and doesn't get flustered by some of these—
No.When you come from where we grew up, that's a drop in the bucket.That's just silliness.Foolishness.Why would she even invest any energy in anything like that?That's not where the payoff is going to come.So the payoff is going to come by doing the work, and continuing to forge forward, and continuing to lift people up and move in the direction that she can be of value and of service.I see her as a servant leader.I really do, in the way that she interacts and engages with people.
As you watch her rise to state politics, and she becomes California attorney general, I mean, what do you think in that moment, as you're watching your friend?Does it surprise you at all?And does it feel like she's on an upward trajectory?
Doesn't surprise me at all, and it made me really proud.And I would tell anybody who talked to me about Kamala, I'd say, “That's my friend.That's my friend.That's the girl I grew up with.” And I was super proud of her, and excited of the possibilities, because I knew who she was, and I knew where she came from.And I know what she wants to do.And her leadership, I feel, is exactly what California needed, and what America needs, literally.I mean, she's bringing leadership right from where we grew up.And it's the right stuff.And I've always felt excited about it, and always just prayed and wished that she would keep going.And she is.She did.
Harris on the National Stage
When you see Senator Harris during the Trump administration, and there would be the hearings, and she would be grilling different administration officials, did you recognize that senator?
Yeah, I did.I did recognize her.And she was authentically herself.And I hope she continues to have the opportunity and the support to be authentically herself.Because you can be kind and empathetic, and you can also hold people accountable.And that's what she was doing.And that's what needed to be done.
I mean, it also exposes her to the national spotlight.And, in some ways, the right-wing media, and sort of social media, and people joking about her laugh, and other aspects of her.As we've talked about, it seems like she has a pattern, a way of dealing with things like that.But, as you're watching it, as somebody you care for, to see the focus on her, in particular, how did that feel?What did you see?
I knew Kamala was straight out of West Berkeley.We came from a place that helped us be tough, and helped us be Teflon, in some ways, you know.We could not absorb all of the issues other people had with us, or tried to put on us, to tear us down.We knew who we were.Our parents told us who we were, raised us who we were, raised us how they thought we should be, from the perspective that we had the space to be ourselves.We had the space to be Black women, and feel strong, and not feel slighted.And you know, we grew up in a neighborhood, and with schoolmates, and, like I said, on the bus, and on the school ground, I mean, we probably were called every name in the book there could be, or told, you know, somebody was talking about us, or talking about somebody.
So, when you get to the place that Kamala has been able to lift herself to, on the shoulders of all of her ancestors and parents and people who cared for her, you're focused on, really, the good work that you want to do.And you know, she is out there, making good trouble.And she will continue to do that, and push people's limits, and push what limitations people are putting on her, to, you know, make sure that she gets where she's determined to go, and to lift everyone else up with her.
Harris Becomes the Democratic Presidential Nominee
To come to this moment, where she's stepping into a breach in the Democratic Party, and with just a couple months to go in the election.… Help me understand what you see in her, in this moment of crisis that she's stepped into as the nominee.
I see the Kamala Harris I knew on the school bus, when we got off at Thousand Oaks.And some people weren't acting right, and they needed to be gone, needed to be dealt with.I see the fire in her eyes.I see the strength and the love for America that she has, and that she wants to make sure we get to the other side of this imminent threat, as I see it, to America.And she also wants to protect Joe Biden, President Biden, you know.He has done such fabulous work.His administration, I think, has been fabulous and amazing.They're not perfect.Nobody's perfect.But I have witnessed the policy in action that has been laid out in this administration, and I know that it's helping people, every day.
Is there more we can do?Absolutely.Is there more they can do?Absolutely. But I see her ready to lead.And I see her ready to move this country forward, in a direction that lifts everybody up, not just a few people, but everybody.And really gives people a chance to get ahead.And I know that, because her mother didn't buy her first house until Kamala was in college, when she moved back from Montreal, and they moved to East Oakland.I mean, her mother scrimped and saved, and she wanted to buy a house.And she was finally able to do that.Kamala knows this, because that's where she's lived.That's her life.And so, she wants folks to have an opportunity in this country.And I know that's what she's striving for, is to, make sure everyone has a share, has an opportunity to lift themselves up if they want to, and move forward.
… What will it mean, when you see her on the stage at the convention, accepting the nomination?
It will be everything.It will be amazing.It will be "her-storical."It's time.It's time.And I just feel so much optimism, and I feel so much hope.I felt hope when Obama came into office, but this is different.Because this is the girl I rode the bus to school, to desegregate Berkeley public schools together with, who lived around the corner, who my mother, you know, made tins of cookies for our bus driver, who reminded me of Willie Nelson, who was always waiting for us, and would not leave until we all got on the bus.My mother had four girls, and Shyamala had two.And we all had long hair.And you know, that's what I see.I see this woman who's pushed through every person, and everything that would tell her no, or that she couldn't do it.And, like she says, she eats “no” for lunch.I mean, there is no “no.” There's only, “How do we do this?What do we find?How do we find a way?” That's how we grew up.
One question we ask everybody when we do these interviews is, from your perspective, what is the choice that voters face in November?
The choice is peace, love, prosperity, and the ability to live your life, and raise your family, and get ahead for whatever that means for you, or to live in a world of lies, deceit, oppression, depression, racism, a person who wants to take everything away, and make people's lives miserable.That's the difference.And I know that, because I lived through that with this person in office, from 2016 to 2020.And it was awful and mentally depressing.So it's hope and love or it's darkness.That's the choice.
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