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Hogan Gidley
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Hogan Gidley
Deputy White House Press Secretary
Hogan Gidley served as principal deputy White House press secretary in the first Trump administration and in 2020 became press secretary for Donald Trump’s reelection campaign. He now serves as the vice chair for the Center for Election Integrity at the America First Policy Institute and as a consultant to Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
The following interview was conducted by the Kirk Documentary Group’s Michael Kirk for FRONTLINE on November 20, 2024. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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Trump’s Unlikely Comeback
How remarkable was it that Donald Trump was elected again?What does it say about him?
We will never see anything like this in the lifespan of this country, I think, ever again.It wasn’t just the most historic, most improbable, impossible comeback; it was a roar-back.He didn’t just squeak by.He won all of the swing states, won the popular vote, which a Republican hadn’t done since [George W.] Bush, I think.It says that Donald Trump has an ability to communicate a simple, strong, sharp message directly to the American people.
And what was so fascinating about this race is that it was both the longest presidential race in history and the shortest, because it started so long with [Joe] Biden, and then all of a sudden, it got condensed to 90 days with Kamala Harris.And so watching the ebbs and flows of this race, where an assassination attempt would have led the news for the duration of a campaign, but he had two.And then they changed candidates.I mean, the news cycle was so oppressive and intrusive in so many people’s lives.It moved so quickly.
But it’s just such an amazing story to have a president who could run on a campaign of not, “Here’s what I’m going to do.I promise, if you elect me, I’m going to try and do.”It's, “I did this before.I can do it again.”Both Biden and Trump—both Trump and Harris had records in office, which is very rare in these types of situations, and one of them actually was a president.So the fight began with talking about what he was able to accomplish the first time and what he could do again.Really a fascinating time in our country’s history.
You know him.What does it say about him, Hogan, that he did it?
You know, I was at Mar-a-Lago after the second assassination attempt.I had a meeting planned with him, myself, Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.And when we got there our phones started blowing up, saying, “Hey, there’s been another assassination attempt.”And we thought, that’s not real; someone is messing with us.And the Secret Service had contacted me saying, “Don’t think this meeting is going to happen.”So I started texting staff, and I was saying, “I don’t think this is going to happen.”And within minutes they said, “No, he still wants to meet.”I couldn’t believe it.
Now, as unbelievable as that was, it was totally on brand for Donald Trump.So I went to Mar-a-Lago with the speaker.We go into one of the ballrooms there for where our meeting is set.I’m sitting there with the speaker and his wife and myself, and we’re waiting for this meeting, because at the time, we were dealing with something in the House with the SAVE Act [Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act], trying to get a budget through, those types of things, and we wanted to make sure we were on the same page, coordinating with the president and his agenda.
And he comes in the room, and had you not known they had just picked up a second shooter, you wouldn’t have known a thing different about that day.He walked in and immediately started talking about what had happened and how they had the guy and how they found the guy.And of course he was telling me what hole it was on, because he knows I’ve played the course several times, and he knows I play golf.And he said, “You know where it was, Hogan.It was right there between the fifth and the sixth.”
And he looked at me, and he could tell myself and the speaker and his wife were concerned.We were hanging on every word.And in those moments, that’s when he’s his best, because he wants to make you feel comfortable.At his core, he’s a host.He wants you to appreciate his properties and his amenities, but he wants you to be comfortable, because he asks you about these things later.And immediately he turned on a dime.He looked at me and winked and pointed and said, “I was already one under.I was going to putt for two under as my second birdie.”
He wanted you to laugh and wanted you to be engaged in a way that didn’t put pressure on the situation.He was trying to bring everyone’s temperature down and just go, “I’m OK.”It was code for saying, “I’m OK.”So he joked around with us, and then we finished the import of the story, and then he wanted to sit down and get to work.And I remember the speaker had asked him, “Why are you doing this?Because one assassination attempt, it’s going to be hard for me to get on the road.Two, you know, I’m holed up somewhere in an undisclosed location for perpetuity.”
And he literally just, his face kind of got serious.He looked at us both.He said, “I don’t have a choice.I feel like the American people have been kicked in the teeth now for the better part of four years, and if I can have a small part in helping to make their lives better, then by God, I’ve got to try.”And I thought, "Who in the world thinks that way?"And fast-forward when he goes back to Butler [Pennsylvania] again for the second time, where the first assassination attempt occurred.As incredible as it was for him to be there, what I was struck by was that the people showed back up to that same site in bigger numbers than the first time.
That moment showed me, this is something I think bigger than 2020, even bigger than 2016.For people to understand the gravity of that moment, you’re standing on the same ground where someone got shot and someone did get killed, by the way, just for holding a political opinion and being at a rally.They went back, and they went back in bigger numbers.It just, again, something I don’t think we are ever going to see again in this country’s history.
I hope not.I hope we don’t have to test that.
Yeah, me, too.
It’s horrible.I’m always wrestling with this question of, "Who is that guy?"You said what I said, which is I’d have gone and dug the biggest hole in my backyard you could find and get down in there.
Yeah, yeah.When I was on the bus tour in Pennsylvania, I would always—I would tell that story, but I would use, “You shoot at me twice, I’m Punxsutawney Phil.I’m the groundhog in the hole.I come out once, I see my shadow, I’m back in.”And they all laughed.… But think about it this way, too.It wasn’t just an assault on his life in Butler.Now they’re trying to kill him at his home.It’s his golf course.This is his playground.It’s his backyard.That’s even in some ways worse than Butler, because the attack out on the grounds of some area in Butler is horrible, it’s horrific, but now they’re trying to kill him at his home.I just—somewhere you’re supposed to feel safe and comfortable and secure is no longer that way.I just—I don't know how the guy does it.
And since then, as you know, he did so many different rallies, so many different locations.And I’m sure he was driving Secret Service nuts.But he does have such a drive to succeed and a drive to win that he really did just kind of laugh off death and just say, “I’m going to keep going.”And I’m in awe of that all the time.
Trump and the Elites
… How important is it to understand his story in order to understand this moment?
You mean his story as a billionaire businessman or—
Life story.Yeah, anything.You know, how he grew up, what he was, whatever parts of it you feel comfortable talking about.
Yeah. I think it’s been pretty well documented, his scratching and clawing to kind of be part of the Manhattan elite, if you will.I mean, he changed the skyline of New York City.When he was not a traditional insider, blueblood, generational player in that world, he built all of these things.And I’ve been to his properties in Bedminster [New Jersey] and played all of his courses around the world in Turnberry and Doonbeg when he was in the White House, and just understanding who he is, the celebrity of Donald Trump I think kind of helps encapsulate not just how far he’s come but where he's headed with this administration.
Everyone knew him.Everyone loved him until he ran for president, and then you had a lot of people on the left who rejected him, who hated him, who scorned him when they were inviting him to all of their weddings, when they were having him over for cocktails and dinner even though he didn’t drink, inviting him to all of the parties.And then, all of a sudden, that was cut off, and he was shunned by a lot of people that he helped fund their organizations or raise money for their groups.
And I think that was probably jarring for him in that first administration because he was such a big part of the culture.But he did have so many friends across a wide spectrum of people.Regardless of race, religion, color or creed, he was kind of heralded as a hero.He was mentioned in something like 245 rap songs as kind of the ideal.And so it was I’m sure quite jarring and quite unthinkable that so many he dealt with over that last several decades just would throw up their hands and call him all of these horrible names.Obviously they weren’t true.
What do you think that does to him?You’re right about that. I hadn’t thought about it that way.What does that do to a guy?
Again, I think for most people, it would send you into some type of mental spiral of like, “Wait a minute.What is happening?” or “Am I wrong to be running for president?I thought these people were my friends.”There may have been some of that for Donald Trump, but if it was there, it didn’t last long.What he wanted to do was show them that he was going to get in the White House and perform and produce like no other president in history.
It’s a very similar mentality of that billionaire, brash businessman from New York who said, “No, no.You don’t think I can fix the ice rink?Everyone else tried.You watch me fix that ice rink.”And he fixed it.I think he relishes and thrives in the challenge of the moment.And he was elected with the most diverse coalition of voters in the history of Republican politics.
In fact, the only demographic he went down with from the previous time he ran was with whites, and it was 1%.He went up among Blacks.He went up among Hispanics.Up seven points with women.1So I think he likes to try not just to defy odds but prove people wrong, that he is in it for the good of the country, that he is in it to make people’s lives better.He feels as though he accomplished that the first time and he can do it again.And I would argue the voters agree.
Trump After the 2020 Election Loss
… Let’s go back to 2021, Jan. 21, 2021.Biden is being inaugurated.Trump is getting on the plane going back to Mar-a-Lago.It’s not exactly a happy day in the life of Donald Trump.What do you think that moment meant to him?
Well, I was there.It was very cold.And the speech was quite depressing for most of us in that crowd who had been in these fights with him now for what was four years.2Interestingly enough, if you go back and watch that speech, at the end, two things struck me.One was how he finished the speech where he basically said, “We’ll be back in some form or fashion.We’re going to be back.”And little did we know he would be back [as] president again.But also leaving with a Frank Sinatra song, “I did it my way,” which is so perfectly Donald Trump.As many people know, he’s prone to DJ quite a bit at Mar-a-Lago and on the plane and other places with his iPad.But that song kind of showed both the somber nature of the moment but also the victory that had been, and the victory in some form or fashion I think people thought to come.
Now, most in that crowd thought it was in the form of him endorsing a candidate or helping somebody run.They didn’t think he’d probably run again.But it was evident pretty early on that’s what he was going to do.But that moment, that day, it was sunny—like I said, it was cold—but a lot of people felt just such a heavy sadness for what had just occurred.And so for him, I think, as is with all things Donald Trump, there may be a moment or two of—a brief, fleeting moment or two of what just happened, but then he's always figuring out how to move forward in the face of adversity, and nowhere is that more evident than in that speech and then in the hours and days to follow.
And when he got to Mar-a-Lago, he had to have been down.Even [Sen. Mitch] McConnell and all of his allies were jumping on him.They stopped the second impeachment, but still, you’ve got to think that for any human, any normal guy, especially a guy who’s been raised by a dad who says, “There’s winners and there’s losers, Donald, and you’d better be a winner,” you know that—you know him well enough to know that’s been drummed into him pretty deeply.What does he do?What does he do when he gets there?This is before [Kevin] McCarthy gets there, before things start to—he becomes a beating heart again as a candidate.What is he doing?You might know what’s he thinking about.What is he planning?What’s going on?
Well, look, I can’t speak to the psyche on that plane—I wasn’t on it—or when he landed.I can just tell you, having been in some moments in that White House, where we would always say the highs are really high and the lows are really low, the low moments are times when he would surround himself with people he knew and people he trusted to help not just buoy his spirits but try and figure out next steps forward.I would imagine that pattern repeated itself either on the plane ride or in the days shortly thereafter.I think after that election, he wanted that extra four years to really solidify not just his legacy or what he was as president, but he wanted to build a really strong foundation for the American people.
What was interesting, too, about Donald Trump, I think, you know, the Mitt Romneys of the world who have run for president try to downplay their wealth.OK, this guy had car elevators and a dancing dressage horse, Rafalca, for heaven’s sake, and tried to downplay, like he was just one of you with rolled-up sleeves.Donald Trump, he wears a suit everywhere.He leaned into it.“Yeah, I’m rich. But I want you to be rich, too.I’m going to do everything in my power to open the gates to allow you to achieve that American dream and be a Donald Trump if you want to be.”
And that kind of charisma and that authenticity, you can’t teach a politician.I’ve worked in politics now for 30 years.My first job was working for a governor of the state of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee.And I thought to myself when I took that job—and I had left the media.I was actually a reporter and an anchor and went to work for Mike, and I thought, now I’m going to get to see this guy who professes Christ and does all these things.I’m going to see him behind the scenes and watch how he really is.And he was identical.
And I had been blessed to work with people like Rick Santorum.Also what you saw in public is what you saw in private.Elizabeth Dole, same way.What you saw in public, although she is more establishment, of course, and in private the same thing.Donald Trump is the exact same person you see in private that America sees.And when people ask me all the time, “How is he? What is he like?”“Have you ever been to a rally?”“Oh, I’ve been to five,” or “I’ve seen these interviews,” that’s how he is.That’s exactly how he is.And that authenticity I think ultimately wins the day.
A lot of times in politics, for lack of an articulate vision in some cases—I don’t mean that with Donald Trump, but anybody—I think if Kamala Harris would have been more authentic, been more true to who she was, that would have helped her quite a bit.You can’t teach a politician to be authentic if they’re not.You can’t teach a politician to speak plainly if that’s not in their nature.They’ll always revert to who they are at some point.And I’ve worked for a lot of them.Donald Trump is just who he is.And so it’s my job to make his job easier.Whatever he does, whatever he did, whatever he says, whatever he said, I’m there to try and make that better for him if it wasn’t pitch perfect in the first place.
What pulls him out of whatever that was?You know, he’s there.It’s awful quiet compared to the White House and the blowback after Jan. 6.What pulls him out?What pulls him back out?When do you know they are going to put the band back together and go on tour one more time?
Well, I don't know the catalyst other than some failings.I know the Afghanistan withdrawal really made him extremely furious, to watch the way they had done that.And if you go back to look at polling, that’s where Joe Biden started to go downhill was after that seminal moment.I think Donald Trump has those moments in his life that allow him to recharge and get a good grip on things.And there’s a reason he plays golf a lot.And the reason he’s good at golf, it’s a mental relaxation for him, getting out with the guys.And I’ve been on the course with him many times, and it’s just like anybody else.They screw around with each other; they make jokes; they taunt each other.
And that’s who he is.He’s laughing the whole time.He’s the center of not just the attention but the center of fun, if you will.And watching him in those moments, it allows him to recharge and replenish.And he’s making jokes obviously to everybody, and he walks around to the people on the course, the workers, and says, “Hey, fellows, how’s everybody doing?”And he does the total New York thing.He gets his hand in his pocket and pulls out a wad of cash and starts cash-handshaking people working at the golf course that make who knows how much money already?
And that kind of stuff I think rejuvenates him to some degree and level-sets him.We all have our ways of doing that, whether it’s going to the gym or just watching a football game or whatever.But Donald Trump, I think throughout the course of his life, has had those moments where he realizes he needs it, too.And the staff around him understands, all right, let’s get him on the golf course, or let’s get him up with one of his old buddies to have a conversation.Those kinds of things help center him and clean his mind a little bit to help him perform better.You saw that a lot in the White House, and I think you’ve seen it a lot since.
Trump’s Appeal in the Face of Adversity
There’s another thing that seems to happen with him, and you can verify this.It seems like the kind of things that would buckle everybody else’s knees help him with his voters, with himself maybe, with the people around him.Take the raid at Mar-a-Lago, for example, right, when they go in and they find the documents and everything else.How does that—I mean, we look at it, and we say, it’s possible that that actually ends up helping him—
Yeah.
—because it draws Fox News and others to his side.It feels like there is, hey, there might be something out there, a conspiracy to get the guy.Talk to us a little bit about that and that environment and whether you agree that that’s what’s going on in that moment.Start by, if you wouldn’t mind, by telling us how he reacted to that moment from what you know.
Well, in the entire time he was president to the entire time he wasn’t president, in the four-year period, he only got above 50 percent in likability, I guess for the first time after the Mar-a-Lago raid.3That day buoyed a lot of his supporters because it turns out the American people, regardless of where they stand politically, like fairness.They don’t like the government meddling around in their affairs.They don’t like a raid on their home.It was a bad look for what many view as a weaponized government.And we’d seen that beginning to trickle out, going after parents who were pro-life, going after parents questioning men playing in their daughters’ sports.We’d seen some of that with Catholicism and those who participate in the Latin Mass getting called domestic terrorists by the DOJ.4You saw weaponization of government at a level that I think most people were really offended by.And at the tip of that spear was Donald Trump.So he had the bully pulpit.He had the cameras outside of his home to be able to tell the real story and to tell the American people, “You elect me, and this is going to stop happening, not just to me but to all of you as well.”
4
Catholic News Agency: FBI director grilled after release of new report on targeting of Catholics
And you said something that—I grew up playing tennis for the most part.You made me think of John McEnroe.The angrier that guy got, the better he was.Most people, when they get angry on a tennis court or in any sport, they fall apart.That’s their Achilles’ heel.But that made McEnroe better, a stronger player.I think the more you attack Donald Trump, the better he becomes; the more precise he becomes.The more mud you throw at him, he doesn’t get dirty; he just grows bigger.He just soaks it all in and becomes a more resolute person in trying to get to that end goal of winning, whatever that may look like.Whether that be a court case against him, whether it be moving a green on his golf course, whether it be running for president, he wants to face those challenges head on, and I think he has a mentality of, "If I get knocked down or someone tries, I’m either going to keep moving, or I’m going to die trying."That’s something that in him—I’ve never seen that in another politician.I’ve seen them crumble.
Look, I say all the time—and I love Rick Perry, so forgive the reference—but no stage is bigger and no lights burn hotter than that on a presidential.You can “oops” yourself off of a stage really quick.You can’t win a presidential debate and then ultimately win the presidency in a moment but you can lose it real fast.Donald Trump faced scrutiny from all of the other candidates, from all of the moderators every time, and he just keeps plowing forward.I just don’t know anybody else who can do that. And—
Well, and he does something else, too, which is fabulous.He takes that mug shot in Washington, or in Georgia—
Yeah, Georgia.
—and turns it into a campaign tool and markets it in an amazing way.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
But that’s where I think so many people in the media, so many people on the left just misread the public in so many ways.Donald Trump faces that scrutiny, and instead of doing what typical politicians do, it’s a mea culpa, you go out in front of cameras, “I’m sorry.I maybe messed up here, but I’m going to fight for you,” he says, “No, I didn’t do anything.In fact, take the picture, and I’ll put it on T-shirts, and I’m going to put it on mugs, and I’m going to make a bajillion dollars off of it.I’m going to market the heck out of it because that’s what I’m good at.And I’m not taking any of this crap from anybody.”
Something that he does, you can take away all of the executive orders; you can overturn everything he did via legislation, whatever you want to do.I think what Donald Trump did, that is something that [is] without a doubt here to stay, he told Republicans, "It’s OK to fight back.You don’t have to take it; you don’t have to get kicked in the teeth.You can say no.You can come out swinging."Even when your back’s against the wall, Donald Trump said not just it’s OK to fight, it’s preferable if you fight.And if you don’t, you look weak not doing it.That’s something Donald Trump gave the Republican Party that I don’t think is going anywhere for a very long time.
Amazing.You know, when he gets convicted in that trial, and he comes roaring out of there, not tail between the legs, but he comes, forcefully coming out of there, and says the voters are going to render the ultimate verdict, who is he at that moment?
At that moment—this is going to sound like a—I don't know how this answer is going to sound.It’s going to sound like I’m giving you an obvious answer.But it’s deeper than just what I’m about to say, and I’ll try to put some meat on it.In that moment what we saw, what America got to see is precisely who Donald Trump is.You got to see Donald Trump, that defiance, that fight, that toughness, that grit that politicians in this country haven’t had for decades.He has it in spades.
And when he stepped to that camera and made those declarations, I think a lot of people, even [those] who don’t like him, thought, "Who is this guy, and what is he doing?"Anybody else would buckle in those situations, and he doesn’t.He thrives in them.And so, you know, it’s not the easy answer; it’s not the obvious answer.In that moment you saw who Donald Trump is to his core, someone who is willing to fight for what he believes in regardless of the challenges he faces in a given moment.
… We get to know his father, Fred, Roy Cohn and the influence of Cohn, “Fight back.Fight, fight, fight,” the legal side, the father-in-everything-else side.We see the bankruptcies.We see all the reality TV stuff; the book, <i>The Art of the Comeback.</i>So how much of the guy we’re talking about now comes from the experiences that I’ve just outlined in his life?
Again, I don't know too much about his background other than what I’ve read.I just—was it [Bill] Clinton—I’m from Arkansas; I’m thinking of a Clinton reference here—he got like third in New Hampshire, and he was labeled the comeback kid, right?This far surpasses something like that in our nation’s history.I just think, like any person in this world, your background helps shape where you are today.And Donald Trump, I think, still remains that bawdy, brash billionaire that looks to accomplish things that no one thought possible.
And I’m sure the relationship he had with his father and his mother and his brother helps shape that to this very day.He often talks about his brother who died from addiction.One of the reasons he never touched alcohol or drugs of any kind—there are videos surfacing, of course, him talking to Barron and his other kids about, "Don’t ever do drugs; don’t ever smoke; don’t ever drink alcohol,"—because he felt that was something that really ruined his brother’s life.And he’s spoken about that publicly.
And so he didn’t want that for himself.He wanted to be clear-eyed about what he was trying to accomplish, and he didn’t want anything to get in the way of accomplishing it, whether that be a controlled substance or whether that be a city councilman that he didn’t like or a property manager that was a problem.He wants to accomplish things for all people.
That’s what I think is so interesting, too, is that here you have a guy who’s background in business, his successes, he can go into a McDonald’s and put on a McDonald’s apron and still relate to people.Kamala Harris could have set that up and practiced it for a year, like she did that dinner party, and it still wouldn’t have come off authentic or genuine.It still would have been cringe.He just walks in there and starts cooking.And one of the things that kind of made me laugh in the whole deal was he takes the fries out, puts it in the container, and he says, “See?It never touched human hands.”He loves the fact that like there are no germs at McDonald’s.Like that’s his mentality, because people—he doesn’t like the germ aspect of it.People say he’s a germaphobe.He’s said, “I’m kind of a germaphobe.”
So just in that moment even, you got to see a glimpse into his psyche, and there’s a reason McDonald’s is on the plane every time he gets back on is because it never touches human hands, and he loves that about it.It’s just kind of funny.
But that kind of—again, one of the things that is difficult to impart on a politician if they don’t already have it is charm.He’s very charming.And when you see people who don’t like him who meet with him, they come out with a different sense of, this guy’s funny.He’s engaging.Those private moments that I’ve got to experience where—we were on a trip, I guess to—I’ve had lot of funny moments with him, but we were on a trip to Asia.Everybody was asleep on the plane, and Air Force One, don’t get me wrong, was amazing, but there aren’t beds on it.You have to sleep on the floor and on the couches.So we’re all—staff is in this big conference room.I get this tap on my head, and I look up, and there he is.And he is just like, he didn’t say anything, just, “Come on.”And I go sit on this 18-hour flight in the office on Air Force One, and he’s just telling these stories about golf in the past and Studio 54.And then we get into policy conversations.He can talk about any subject matter, and he’s got a story about them all.It’s just a fascinating thing.
And you’re sitting there thinking to yourself, first of all, it’s so humbling that I’m even on the plane, much less talking to the president.But he just wants to talk.He just wants to socialize and laugh and take his mind off something for a minute.He’s got stacks of newspapers and articles that he’s been writing on and pouring through.And he just wants a moment to talk about music, about James Brown or whatever the subject.He loves James Brown.But he was telling me interactions he’s had with different musicians.And it's just—it’s just charming.And that’s hard—no one has that unless they have it, and that’s something he has.
Trump’s 2024 Presidential Campaign
Let’s talk about the spring of [2024], Trump has the nomination, and Biden is super struggling.Help me understand Trump at that moment.
I think they were hitting a real stride at that moment where Biden’s mental and physical decline was becoming so obvious.It was tough for anyone else to ignore.I think the media was in a box because they had been propping Joe Biden up for so long, covering for him, carrying his water, that when the American people saw that debate, for example, and realized this guy wasn’t all there, all of a sudden the outcry from the media was surprise and shock.No one bought that.
You cover the guy every single day.He has a traveling press pool.The press corps is at the White House every single day.It was another log on the fire to add to the disbelief or the distrust of the mainstream media, for example.And I think Trump was in a stage where, the campaign was in a stage where they were glad that the American people were finally starting to see what we’d been talking about on our side for a long time.
And it was unavoidable.You could no longer ignore it.It was in the face of the American people.And then of course, as we knew, stories started coming out from a few years before that Cabinet secretaries were quite concerned about Biden’s acumen in these meetings.They were worried about his health, things that we knew, that we’d already heard but that the media wouldn’t talk about.It was another big moment of, Trump was right about that, too.And it became something where—I would just say real quickly there is a reason why mainstream media’s popularity sits somewhere between Congress and COVID.It’s because they, by their own making, have so eroded their credibility with the American people because they’ve lied on so many different topics, and a lot of them relate to Donald Trump and the time period when he was president up until that moment in that debate with Joe Biden, that it really went to take away their credibility.
And I think there was a sigh of relief collectively on our side, not just with Trump and the campaign but the MAGA movement and the Republican Party, writ large.They were like, OK, now everyone is starting to see what we’ve been talking about.
And how is candidate Trump feeling?He must be in full flower, full head of steam.He knows this guy is walking wounded, maybe the walking dead, and here he is.Just all he’s got to do is kind of basically keep on keeping on, and he’s going to win the presidency.
Yeah. I mean, again, they were hitting a stride at that point.I think the polling showed Joe Biden down big in a lot of states.Democrats were contemplating doing something a little bit differently, as we know.And I think in large measure, there was some concern if they were going to actually change candidates, what would that mean?The condensed timeframe, the protection that the media had given Joe Biden for the last three and a half years would obviously translate to Kamala Harris.Those same media that told us a year ago Kamala Harris was Joe Biden’s problem.That was the lowest-rated vice president in history.All of a sudden we knew they would flip on a dime and tell us she was the greatest vice president in history, not to mention the best candidate and would probably be the best president.There was some concern over how the Democrat Party would make that switch, if they would.But many of us still thought they were going to stick with Joe Biden because you couldn’t get rid of a guy who was in the White House.It was unprecedented.And there were all rules, questions and these types of things.But that’s minutiae for a lot of folks, right?They’re just going to want to do what gives them the best chance to gain or maintain political power.So I think at the time, the campaign was riding so high because they were winning on all of the issues that mattered for the American people.Joe Biden had so failed in so many ways.
And there is an "over complification" — I’ll say it this way.The media often tries to make this more complicated than it actually is.Can you afford gas and groceries or not?Is the border wide open, and are people pouring into your neighborhoods, draining your resources, or aren’t they?Are people dying, being raped, assaulted, burglarized by people in this country who don’t have a right to be here or aren’t they?Is there crime spiking in your city streets?Are there wars breaking out all over the world or aren’t there?
Donald Trump led in all of those major categories.All of those major concerns of the American people, Joe Biden was underwater in all of them.And every time he opened his mouth, it got progressively worse.And so the campaign was moving full steam ahead knowing that they had this thing locked if the trend continued the way it was trending.
The First Assassination Attempt
And then the first assassination attempt happens.
Right.
“Fight, fight, fight,” right?Tell me. Take me there.When did you hear about it? What did you see? What did you recognize?How did that feel?What do you figure it did to Donald Trump, the human being?Walk me in there, please.
I’ve got to unpack this one, because this is an interesting question.So I was not watching that when it happened.I got a text on my phone: “Shots fired.”And I thought it was a client I had, and I thought they were saying, “Did someone go after you on Twitter?”I didn’t know what was going on, so I turn on the TV, I pull up Twitter, and the first image I see is Donald Trump standing there.And someone had a MAGA hat.They were holding a MAGA hat up against his white shirt.I thought that was the gunshot, so I immediately just lost it.What just happened?And then I saw him walk off and realized it was a hat.And I thought, OK, maybe he’s OK.But I did see the blood.
And so I’m watching the replay of this happen, and I’m thinking the whole time, this guy, they’re going to rush him off there; we’re never going to [hear] from him again.… To watch that man stand up, raise his fist and look at the crowd and yell, “Fight, fight, fight,” in that moment I said, “He just won the election.”That’s exactly what I thought.It reminded me, later after the second assassination attempt—and by the way, the mere fact we have to differentiate between the first assassination attempt and the second assassination attempt shows you kind of what a dark, dangerous place I believe we’re kind of in in this country right now.
Remember when I told you he came into Mar-a-Lago and kind of wanted to make us feel better by telling jokes?That’s who he was in that moment.He wanted the crowd to know he was still going to fight.He wanted the crowd to know he was fine, and he wanted the crowd to know, you need to make sure you’re engaged in this, too, because this is what we’re up against.
I don’t want to overexaggerate what I saw in the moment, but knowing him like I know him, that was so perfectly Donald Trump, such the quintessential bulwark against all the powers that be, all the detractors that would try and stop him in any form or fashion.He was so defiant in that moment, I think a lot of people woke up to the fact that Donald Trump isn’t just here to stay, but he’s here to fight on their behalf.It was a seminal moment in the campaign.
He asks for his shoes, which is so Donald Trump to—he obviously goes to the car—
Why?
Well, I mean, Donald Trump cares about appearance.He doesn’t want to appear anything other than tough, and that moment was the perfect opportunity.Now, did he calculate in his head, “I don’t want to look weak here”?I don’t think so.I think he realized what had happened, and I think he wanted to articulate to the crowd, as I mentioned before, “You’ve got to fight, guys; this is important.”
And that assassination attempt I think was jarring enough for so many in this country to realize, yeah, they’re going after him legally.They’re trying to take his businesses; they’re going after his friends, his family, his coworkers, his colleagues; going after him, raiding his home.Now they’re trying to shoot him.It was an exclamation point on a long sentence of attacks Donald Trump had had to face.And I think for a lot of folks, it was an eye-opening moment, to say the least.
Trump Faces Harris
… Biden quits on a Sunday.And full gear, here we go. The mechanism is engaged.We’re starting over.
Yeah.
What’s that like for Trump, for Donald Trump, who thought he had it?It was in the bag.And you’ve even got the sympathy vote.And you’ve got Miss Congeniality, and you’ve got everything all working for you, and then boom.Tell me how Donald Trump probably reacted to that knowledge, that word that that had happened?
… I think the campaign early on was quite concerned that all of a sudden, the media, who had found Jesus on Joe Biden was not doing the same thing with Kamala Harris.This is the same media that said Joe Biden had a Kamala Harris problem just a year ago.Her approval rating was a 35. She wasn’t good.5People in Democratic circles were chattering behind her back.She had staff that was coming out saying she wasn’t good at this.There were stories about her just playing computer games all day long, practicing for dinner parties.When she’d open her mouth, it was always word salads, and that’s a disservice to salads, because at least you could get some nutritional value from salad.
And all of sudden they just propped her up as like the second coming with nothing to validate that claim.In fact, all evidence was to the contrary.And it was difficult because of course the influx of money started coming in, and they made it look like it was all because it was Kamala Harris.It was just because it wasn’t Joe Biden.But there was no question, life injected into the Democrat Party because what they had was a corpse for the most part.And it was undeniable.
And I think on our side, it took us a minute to try and figure out the best lines of attack, the best things to expose, the best issues to talk about in the campaign.And eventually, they obviously found it and exploited a lot of her weaknesses, a lot of her mistakes and ultimately ended up winning the election.
What do you think he learned over the years that helped him get to that moment, to overcome that moment, because that’s a—boy, you talk about, it’s like a guy who built Trump Tower, and just as you’re going to put the finishing touches on the sign on the door, a guy builds a building 10 stories taller or—you know, what do you do if you’re Donald Trump?
I’ll give you another analogy.It’s like, you know, you’re about to win a Super Bowl, and the quarterback for the other team that you’re beating badly gets hurt, and they bring in a younger, newer quarterback, and that quarterback all of a sudden is throwing the ball all over the field and scoring touchdowns.And all of a sudden the refs, who were realizing they should call the game fair, just giving all the calls to the other side.It was a very jarring moment in our political history because it hadn’t happened before.
And so attacking her early on for not getting a single vote, being installed by the powers that be, pushing Joe Biden out of office—all of those things were true, and they gained a little bit of traction, and there were some people angry about it.But what they realized, the Trump campaign, early on was, those are all legitimate arguments, but it doesn’t move the needle because she’s there now, so now you have to figure out how to go directly after Kamala Harris and her record.
And I think after that convention, they knew exactly how to do that.They’d been poll testing it; they’d been figuring it out.But there’s also a gut reaction, a visceral kind of understanding of the American people that Donald Trump has that I think few politicians do, and he was able to lean on some of those areas where it hurt her the most.And still, regardless of her being propped up, the campaign still knew their candidate led in all of the major issues that faced the American people.And so that moment was a gut punch, no question about it.But as Donald Trump is wont to do, he gets up, keeps fighting, figures out the best punches to throw and then does it.And there is nowhere that’s more evident than in this campaign.
… I don’t see a phenomenal change in him from one candidate to the other, other than I think he kind of missed Joe Biden.It was sort of fun to hammer away at Joe.And she had—obviously, the stakes were a hell of a lot higher for her.She was climbing in the polls.But he just kind of keeps on doing his thing.And there is a lot of outrage going on out there that’s being reported anyway, but it doesn’t stop him one bit.He’s not going to play by some other rules because she’s a woman or she’s a Black person, South Asian person.Tell me about that.
Yeah. I think, too, one of the things he recognized is that the mainstream media wasn’t going to help him.Of course they were going to help her.In fact, the study was something like 89 percent negative coverage on him and 92 percent positive coverage on her, which tracks pretty much where we were in the White House.6They write that off, so they find other ways to get the messages out.They do it through social media, of course, but they went to podcasters.You’re talking tens of millions of people who watch Joe Rogan, tens of millions of people who listen to Megyn Kelly.
6
Washington Examiner: ‘Unprecedented’ positive media for Harris, 89% negative for Trump
Going and having those conversations with people, advocates in that space, set[s] him apart and puts him in front of different people that the mainstream media just doesn’t reach anymore.There’s a reason their numbers are low.As I mentioned, their credibility is shot at this point.And so that strategy I think also was extremely helpful for the campaign, and also it scratches an itch for the candidate.Donald Trump likes to perform.He likes to get out there and talk to folks.He likes to build those relationships.He can do that with a crowd of 50,000 in some venues.
But if he gets down with a podcaster and has that long-form conversation, it also allows him to kind of loosen up and show his authenticity, his humor, his charm.And then that’s pushed out to tens of millions of people.I think that was a big change, too.
I will say another, I think, seminal moment in the campaign was the JD Vance-Walz debate, because again, this was a media who had told us JD Vance was a <i>Handmaid’s Tale</i> advocate, that he was a crazy, lunatic, right-wing, conspiracy theorist and all of this.So they’d set the narrative that this guy was a lunatic and a bomb thrower, and then this guy with a beard walks up and is like, “You know, my meemaw raised me because my momma had a drug problem.We had to fight to make ends meet.And I was able to go to a really nice school and become a senator, and this country is great.”And I think the American people were confused.“Wait, I thought this guy was going to come out and say, ‘Women should go to the kitchen and never come out, and men should be the hunters,’” and all of these—
That’s not what happened.People realized JD was OK.And I think a lot of the people watching that debate not just wrote off the media again or had another reason to kind of turn them off, but it saw a different side, too, of what Donald Trump saw in him, where he gets to make that pick.And the first chance he has to build a ticket, to show the American people where he is going to go, he went with JD Vance.Now, out of the gate, liberals tried to paint him as some lunatic, as I said, and that’s what they are going to do.
But out of the gate, we also heard Kamala Harris was moderating, that she was going to do things completely different than Joe Biden.And then when she had a chance to pick a vice presidential candidate, she didn’t go with the moderate.She went with the person who had enacted all of the radical policies that she wishes she could from the federal level at the state level in Tim Walz.And so watching those two on stage I think also was a very seminal moment because that debate gave an “It’s OK” to a lot of folks in suburbia, who were concerned about the pick to say, “Wait a minute.He’s not what he was portrayed to be by the mainstream media.And in fact, he seems like a pretty good guy.”
Elon Musk’s Influence
Talk a little bit about Elon Musk, the power of Musk when he arrives, when he brings not only his checkbook or his Venmo card or whatever he uses, but also his extreme aura.And what does it mean to have these two billionaires ganging up?What’s the effect on Donald Trump to have Musk show up, and how does it change things?
Donald Trump likes to have smart people around him.Elon Musk is very smart.And again, much like Donald Trump was the prince of the left for a long time in society and was shunned, Elon Musk was the best person the left had to offer because he was going to lead the way to having non-gas vehicles.And then Elon Musk started showing conservative tendencies, and then all of a sudden, he was persona non grata as well.So I think there’s a kindred spirit there.They understand that they used to be kind of the toast of the town, and then they were shunned because of their political views.They have an understanding there.
And Elon is obviously very talented, obviously very smart.And when you get to see what his rockets are doing and the money it saves and all of these things, Donald Trump looks at that as someone who has been very successful in the face of a bureaucracy that says it should be done this way all the time, and now you have someone bucking that trend much like he did, and he appreciates that.
The same thing I think applies to his purchase of Twitter.You know, I think it’s 80% of the traffic on Twitter is done by 20% of the users.He buys it, changes the name to X.And now the censorship isn’t there on conservative voices like it was.I lost tens of thousands of followers during the election of 2020.I’ve gained a lot of them back because now you can have an open conversation on X where you couldn’t before.… And now, when you have a voice like Elon coming out, who wasn’t really conservative, let’s say, but he just said, “I’m anti-censorship.I’m pro-First Amendment.This is going to be a town square where you can actually communicate with people, and we’ll put community notes in place, and we’ll have some safeguards, but you need to be able to express your opinion and your mind,” I think that was a good thing for Donald Trump.And I think it allowed people to have open conversations.And it also showed Democrats were so afraid of any pushback.They’re so afraid of getting outside of that bubble.Poll after poll shows Republicans are more apt to have Democrat friends than Democrats are to have Republican friends.We love to have those conversations.Democrats don’t.They shy away from them, they’re scared of them, and when they see a place like X become a more balanced public square, they either shut off their accounts or they dig themselves in deeper. …
It’s weird to think of two superegos across the table from each other, talking about the destiny of America.How long does Elon Musk get access to the inner circle, do you think, before something happens between those guys?Nothing personal on either one of them—just it seems like dynamite and dynamite make kaboom even bigger, right?
Yeah. But, you know, if they’re blowing things up together, it’s different than setting them at different sides of the issue.So look, I think they’re friends.I think Elon’s here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future.And, you know, Trump likes people around him who perform.What he has no patience for or tolerance for is just wasted time or wasted energy.He wants you to do the things he thinks the American people want done, and he wants you to do them quickly.So many conversations I’ve had with him where he would ask me to do something, and then an hour later he’d call me and be like, “How are we coming on that?”And you’re thinking, I just talked to you, and the people you wanted me to call hadn’t even called me back yet.But that’s his mentality and his mindset, to keep things moving so quickly.
So Elon’s one of those guys who’s a doer.And I think when you saw that rocket take off, and you saw the rocket come back and then get pinched by that chopstick apparatus, that’s just one of those things that you just go, this is what makes this country so amazing.Someone can think of that, build it, accomplish it.And now you’re not spending billions of dollars sending up a rocket and dropping the rest of it into the ocean.You can reuse it.That’s the innovation that this country is so known for.
Trump’s 2024 Election Victory
Where were you on election night?
I was at the convention center in Palm Beach.I was doing media for the most part all night long, until about 3:30 in the morning.
What was that night like for Donald Trump, do you figure?
I think they were cautiously optimistic going into it.And reporters were coming up to me around 10:30 saying, “He’s got this.Our modeling shows it’s going to be a slaughter.It’s going to be really big.”I was so skeptical, because I’ve seen enough football games where you think you have it won, or I’ve seen enough campaigns where you think you have it won, and then you don’t at the last minute for whatever reason.… We had all moved down to the floor, up to the front of the stage to watch this victorious moment, and I’m still just biting my nails, concerned.They called Pennsylvania, and everyone says, “Well, that’s it.”But we’re three votes shy at that point.So I’m like, “What is everyone excited about?Like, I’m freaking out here, guys.Like, we’ve still got three votes.There’s Wisconsin.You know, we could lose that.”“No, we’re not going to lose Wisconsin,” all that.And someone out of my periphery said, “Have they called Alaska yet?”And I thought to myself, well, they said voting had ended in Alaska, but they had not called it.And then I quickly pulled up my phone to verify what I knew, which was Alaska had three electoral votes.And I said, “Well, he’s going to win Alaska, so that’s going to be it.”
At the end of the night after the speeches, I still knew no other outlet but Fox had called the race.This was 4:00 in the morning, and so I was still terrified that something else was going to happen until I realized every one of those outlets had called Pennsylvania.So, since they had called Pennsylvania, they hadn’t called the race yet, but I knew Alaska was still going to go Trump, so I was a little more comfortable.
But the room was like something out of a Hollywood script.I mean, the tears from so many people, the hugs, the “We did this together,” the collective sigh, the release of all of this concern and worry was to me such a blessing, and to be part of that and in that mix.
Look, admittedly I say this a lot of times when I’m in speeches, but, you know, I don’t have that blueblood, political last name.I’m not a Bush, and I’m not a Cheney, a Kennedy. I’m not a Clinton.Thank God I’m not that, a Clinton.I don’t have any business going in the White House at all, but I got to go in it every single day and work there.And someone like me who was raised by a single woman, I mean, I’m a nobody from nowhere, but Donald Trump allowed me to go into the building every single day and stand in front of the Resolute Desk and give the president of the United States advice.Now, he never took any of it, but that’s not the point.The point is, only in this country would someone like me get to give it.
And I’m standing there on the floor with all of these people who are Cabinet secretaries that I briefed a lot of times or I prepped for Sunday shows, who still like me and know me.And you’re thinking to yourself, I couldn’t have done this with any other politician.It had to be someone from the outside who allowed me to even have access in the first place.And it’s not about me having access.I’m just saying, you’re at Mar-a-Lago, you’re in Palm Beach, places you’ve read about for decades with the social, the elites, the hoi polloi [sic], all these—and you have a bunch of ragtag folks up there who have worked their tails off to try go get this guy elected now three times.
And I remember when Trump won in ’16.I was up on set at CBS because I was a contributor for CBS.And you know, you see these other people working for Hillary, and I was there in the green rooms, so the night before they were saying things like, “Well, I’ll be up tomorrow in D.C., and I think I’m going to be at Treasury,” or “Oh, yeah”—I overheard the conversation—“I’m going to be at this or that.”And I’m thinking, OK, good for them.I think this is going to be a rough night for us.
When it didn’t, I remember calling a couple of them out and having private conversations and basically saying, “Look, I wouldn’t change the outcome at all, of course, but I’m sorry for you.I know how this goes,” because, you know, when you—it’s like football players play each other.At the end of the game you’re not punching each other.You’re giving each other hugs because you just went through the same type battles.And so in that room as you see all these people who’ve been in these fights, elected officials, staffers, just supporters, donors, and you see him come out on that stage, I can’t express the level of emotion and of elation that you feel in a situation like that.Anybody who wins a campaign would probably tell you that.
But this arc is so much different than anything I’ve experienced before that it makes it extremely special to be a small part of, if that makes any sense.
What’s different about it?
Well, first of all, I’m personally invested in it, having been part of it and so close to him and then the White House.But also, people are so quick to move on in politics.For all the talk about the mainstream media being irrelevant, they were still able to mobilize in two weeks to get a sitting president out of the Oval Office in exchange for his vice president.And to watch the ebb and flow of not just a White House but then the four years that came after, and then being in that campaign and watching the highs and the lows of that, too, makes this one of the most unique times in American history.
You had a president who was president before, fighting against a president who had a record as president, and then they switched the candidate.Now you have a whole new fight to fight.You’ve got to figure out your footing, go forward on that.And so it’s a long way to answer.It’s just to realize what you have gone through and been a part of for the last seven years, culminating in an actual victory after all the lawsuits, after the assassination attempts, after trying to replace Joe Biden, after all of these things, to come out on top, and not just a little bit but to have a sweeping victory, where it wasn’t called days later, it was called that night, early hours of the next morning, it just makes things a lot different.And to understand that—you know, we used to have to point back to [Ronald] Reagan in the ’80s to say, “Look how good things were.”This was a few, short years ago.And I think the jarring juxtaposition for the American people, having just had policies in place that made their lives better, now having policies in place that made their lives worse, it was incumbent upon us to try and message that in a way that just reminded the American people, this isn’t necessarily difficult.We can restore what you had a few, short years ago if you pick the right leader.
That message is a hard one to get out when, as I said, the left controls all the levers of power and influence.But it was able to be accomplished because of the person at the top of the ticket.We will never in our lifetimes see another candidate like Donald Trump who is a natural voter-turnout machine.Everything else is going to have to be done through the RNC and the DNC for future elections to come.Donald Trump got those people to the polls.Of course the blocking and tackling matters.In fact, it is really the only thing, the get-out-the-vote efforts, the voter mobilization, voter registration, poll watchers, poll workers, all of those things.
But you can’t sell a bad product.Kamala Harris was a bad product.Donald Trump was a good product, and it sold very easily to the American people.But no one is going to turn out voters like Donald Trump in our future.The amount of low-propensity voters who come out and vote for him, that have been forgotten men and women for years, I just don’t know how that happens again unless these entities can tap into them and tell them kind of what’s coming up next.He’s unique in that way.
When he’s standing there and you’re in the crowd looking up at him, do you think he’s running the list of all the things he’s had to overcome to do it and he’s standing there and this has actually worked?Is he astonished, or is he satisfied?
I think Donald Trump can be satisfied for a moment, and then he wants the next project.He wants the next fight.He wants the next challenge.And I saw his face when he came into that arena after the assassination attempt when we were at the RNC convention, a different face than I had ever seen him have before, a realization of what was at stake and of his safety, of the safety of his family.That was weighing on him. You could see it.It didn’t deter him, but you could just see that it had an effect on him.
Election night when he won, it’s like anybody who’s gone through a prize fight, who comes out and realizes just what happened.Whether you can actually grasp all of that in that moment is anybody’s guess.But I think in the days after it, having been around him at Mar-a-Lago since, talking to him since, I think he has a firm grasp of just what he was able to accomplish.I think he’s loose, I think he’s relaxed, and I think he’s more determined than ever to implement the policies that have been proven to make people’s lives better.
What do you think it was like for him to go to the White House, sit with Biden and shake his hand?
A couple of things about this.This was one of the most frustrating things for me during the campaign, the most frustrating thing, because even the left didn’t believe the threat to democracy, the Hitler, the Nazi, the fascist rhetoric.That’s impossible for me to believe that they thought that was true for so many reasons.Democrats running for the U.S. Senate were using Donald Trump, embracing him in advertising.Democrats like Chuck Schumer sat next to Donald Trump at the Al Smith Dinner while he was telling jokes, and they just yukked it up and laughed.Joe Biden put on a MAGA hat for heaven’s sake at a rally somewhere to kind of be funny.
If they really believed he was Hitler, they wouldn’t have done any of those things, not to mention the fact Kamala Harris has her own history of saying and doing things regardless of the outcome to try and hurt political opponents. …
The Democrat Party went way too far in that campaign rhetoric, and you know that, because when Donald Trump sits down with Joe Biden and you see that, the happiest person in that room is not Donald Trump; it’s Joe Biden.You could see it on his face.Joe Biden hadn’t smiled like that in months because he was in the catbird seat.If Kamala Harris had won, Joe Biden would say, “See? I saw in her something no one else saw.I plucked her out of the Senate because I knew she was the pathway forward.”If she loses, he can go, “I told you guys, I was still the better candidate.I’m the only one who’s beaten Donald Trump.And I was the transition. I was the change agent.”So he was fine either way.But good for Melania, quite frankly, when she was asked by Jill Biden to sit down and have tea, she said, “No.In large part because you raided my home.Your husband raided my home.”So there’s still some bad blood. Don’t get me wrong.
But I think the overheated rhetoric was kind of exposed for being just that, meaningless nonsense, because if you really believed Donald Trump was Hitler, you wouldn’t sit down and meet with Hitler.You wouldn’t try to have an easy transition for Hitler.You wouldn’t send Joe [Scarborough] and Mika [Brzezinski] down to Mar-a-Lago if you really believed he was Hitler.So that kind of stuff really infuriates me.But back to the meeting—
Wait. Does it infuriate him? Trump?
Well, look, I think if there is one thing Donald Trump loves more than a day one supporter it’s a convert.If he can convert them to his way of thinking, he likes that, because, again, he’s an entertainer, but he’s also a host.He wants you to be comfortable, and if his policies can bring you to his side, if his style can bring you to his side, that’s another accomplishment he can put out there, because how many never-Trumpers does he have around him?A lot.And he’s put some in positions of power, because they kind of came on.
JD Vance was someone who could speak to this beautifully on the campaign trail because he was the suburban mom who said, “I could never vote for Donald Trump.”He was the suburban mom who said, “This guy’s too erratic for me.”Then he got to work with him.Then he got to know him and said, “I’m one of you.Now I believe this guy is so great for the country, I want to join the ticket.”It was a very sincere track record that JD Vance could unpack for the never-Trump voter out there.
And so I think it infuriates him.It definitely infuriated him at the time.Now that he won, that cures a lot of anger and a lot of hatred, so we’ll see how far those relationships can be built out or built back.But nonetheless—
A Second Trump Term
You don’t think there is a revenge tour underway, and a lot of that is what’s behind the Cabinet he’s naming and the government he’s building?
Yeah. But I don’t think it’s a revenge tour to take people out of the DOD who allowed a Chinese spy balloon to go from the Pacific northwest across the entire width of our country, stopping of course at our military installations and nuclear sites to gather information, through South Carolina before it was shot down.7I don’t think that’s a revenge tour to root out people who allowed that, or get rid of generals who were fine with 13 American service members dying in Afghanistan at Abbey Gate, or those who allow drones to fly across Langley for a month at a time before they realize something is going on.8
7
U.S. Department of Defense: F-22 Safely Shoots Down Chinese Spy Balloon Off South Carolina Coast
8
The Wall Street Journal: Mystery Drones Swarmed a U.S. Military Base for 17 Days. The Pentagon Is Stumped.
I don’t think that’s retribution.I think that’s fixing a systemic problem in a lot of these agencies that have allowed rot to spread through many areas of these departments.So I guess it’s in the eye of the beholder.I don’t think he’s going to be punitively—he’s not going to punitively attack people.I think what he’s going to do is try and bring transparency back to the government and accountability.Those are two words I think that were undervalued during the campaign that the Trump people talked about that I think will really define a lot of this second term.
They’re going to bring stuff to the fore that I don’t think people have any idea is actually going on within the federal government.And I think they’re going to hold people accountable who are responsible for the problems.Something also is—everyone knows doesn’t happen in Washington, D.C.—this town is the ultimate fail-upward mecca.And so I think the more people know about what has occurred, the more people are going to be angry and want some accountability.And that doesn’t mean gulags.That means firing people who don’t deserve to have their jobs.
… What does Trump’s life suggest about what lies ahead?
If there’s any thought that the press or the Democrats are going welcome him back with open arms in this second term, I think that will be disabused quite quickly.Democrats want to gain and maintain political power, as do Republicans.The media, which again covered up for Joe Biden’s mental, physical failings, covered up for the Hunter Biden laptop being real, who signed onto 51 intel agents, when only one of two things could be true.Either those 51 intel agents really can’t spot Russian disinformation, which is a problem, or could and lied about it.9Either way it’s not good.
9
The New York Times: Officials Who Cast Doubt on Hunter Biden Laptop Face Questions
It's the same media that went after Trump time and time again.If you think you are going to get a fair shake from the D.C. press corps because you won all the swing states and have the popular vote, you’ve got another think coming.And I think the campaign understood that.I think the administration understands that, that this is not going to be an easy task.They are going to get fought.They are going to get enjoined with lawsuits when the first person gets deported, the first rapist, the first murderer they try to send back to another country, it will probably be fought with a lawsuit.I think they know that going in.
The difference is—it’s trite, but it’s true—hindsight is 20/20.Donald Trump comes back to this with a level of discernment and wisdom and knowledge of the institution he didn’t have before.He’s got that now, so I think in the first administration he had a lot of people around him, when he would try to accomplish something, explain to him why you can’t.Now I think you have people around him who are going to tell him, “Here’s how we can.”Way different.And so it will allow him to really proceed with his America First agenda really quickly.And the lessons learned in that first administration cannot be overstated.And so this second time around, he’s going to move to implement the policies the American people voted for in a way he didn’t do before, because now he just knows how to do it, and the people around him know better how to accomplish what he wants to accomplish.
I got you.Thank you, Hogan.Vanessa, anything we’ve missed? What do we need to touch before we end this?[Question from producer Vanessa Fica] Well, this will air the day after the inauguration, so if you could—I know it hasn’t happened yet—but like for someone whose father taught him the importance of winning, what does the inauguration mean?
Look, any one of his properties has hallways and hallways of photos from Donald Trump’s past, his accomplishments, his victories, golf trophies, awards given to him by organizations—because he’s led an incredible life and impacted a lot of people for the good.That inauguration is just another example of a man who faced adversity, got knocked down, got back up, fought and won.And so, standing there, giving that speech, I don't know what—“euphemism” isn’t the right word I’m looking for.What do you call it if there is like a—I’ll say cliché.But if it’s like a cherry on top, if it’s a, you know, he finished the race, he ran through the tape—whatever cliché you want to use.—it will be an accomplishment that I don’t think we’re ever going to see in American political history again, because of the track that he had to go down to achieve it.And the people in that crowd and the people in that audience saw something that they won’t ever see again in not just our lifetime but I don’t think in the history of his country.Donald Trump has a way of grasping those moments, understanding where he is, who he is talking to, how to communicate.And I think he’s going to—I think he was able to explain to the people not just how far we’ve come but where we can go with him as president and with those America First policies in place.And I just think he is keenly aware, and always has been, of the gravity of certain moments.And that was one of the heaviest moments, I think, in his life.And there will be many more in this administration, but to kick it off in that way was just spectacular.
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