The FRONTLINE Interviews
Mohamed al Salloum
Brother of Executed Journalist
Mohamed al Salloum's brother, Samer, was detained by Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) in 2017 and believed executed in 2019. Mohammed now lives in France, where he was granted political asylum in 2019.
The following interview was conducted on March 11, 2021, by FRONTLINE filmmaker Martin Smith. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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HTS’ Detention and Killing of Samer al-Salloum
So, as you know, I spent more than a week inside Idlib last month, and I spoke to Abu Mohammad al-Jolani probably for more than six hours, and one of the subjects I brought up with him was press freedom.And he claimed to support journalists and freedom of expression.I think your family’s experience has been very different.Can you talk—to begin, tell me about your brother’s activities as a publisher.What did you publish?What was he engaged in?
My brother is Samer al Salloum.He was detained at the the end of 2017 by Jabhat al-Nusra, which is now known as Hayat Tahrir al-Sham.Samer was a simple, civilian activist on Facebook, or the term we use is citizen journalist, by reporting on daily events on the streets, like bombings by Assad’s forces and violations against civilian rights by the different military organizations, whether Jabhat al-Nusra or others.
Samer was used to commenting and attacking Jabhat al-Nusra for the violations it was committing.He was taken by members of al-Nusra from our family’s home on Dec. 25, 2017.He disappeared since then at the hands of members of the famous al-Iqab prison that belonged to the organization.
Specifically, what was it that he said that you think triggered his arrest?
During this time, the organization was fighting with regime forces, and it was retreating, withdrawing from large areas in Idlib’s countryside.The regime forces were advancing, shelling and destroying the area which led to strong resentment among people against members of the organization since they always presented themselves as the saviors, the rescuers from the regime forces.Suddenly, people saw this organization handing over areas to the regime without putting any real effort in defending it against them, so they were attacked by everyone for that, including Samer.They were accused of being agents, of working for the regime, of handing over the areas to it.This disturbed them, especially as an increasing number of activists who were outside Syria were speaking comfortably about it, while Samer was speaking from the inside, which made him an easy target to be arrested, detained and to try to silence him as they had done with others.It wasn’t just about Samer.Tens of people were arrested.
Jolani explained to me that he believes in freedom of expression, but if someone is going to criticize them, if someone is going to criticize HTS, then they can be considered an enemy, and then they can be subjected to arrests.He said that this is an agreement with the journalists’ union.Have you ever heard anything like this?
No, not at all.You can ask the colleagues at the journalists’ syndicate.It’s there, and you can ask them.Of course he doesn’t recognize the journalists’ syndicate.Al-Jolani has his own syndicate, just like Bashar al-Assad.Of course, al-Jolani is a big supporter of journalism.You can watch the Jolani journalism academy in al-Iqab prison, where tens of journalists and activists were killed.You can also ask Raed al-Fares and Hamoud Juneid, who were assassinated by members of the organization.You can ask a large number of foreign journalists and activists who were kidnapped.Honestly, to be clear, I was not aware that my interview with you, my friend, comes after your meeting with al-Jolani.It’s not something to be happy about, to be honest, to meet with al-Jolani, to listen to him.It’s not something to be proud of.Thank you.
By that you mean—I’m not sure I understand.… Are you criticizing my speaking to Jolani?
Yes, of course.We feel that there’s now an attempt to polish the image of this terrorist organization, to prepare for it to be accepted in the community.Al-Jolani is therefore tapping into that and playing on such language and claims that he supports human rights, that he is fighting ISIS, etc.The truth is that this is a terrorist organization, and any attempt to rebrand it should be absolutely denounced and rejected.
My purpose was to ask him hard questions and to ask him to explain himself in the face of criticism from people like yourself and others.
Thank you.Trying to meet others to get to the truth is a good thing.It’s difficult to get to the truth in Idlib because al-Jolani controls most aspects of life over there.As we say, he won’t show you except what he sees, what he wants you to see.Al-Jolani controls most aspects of life, al-Jolani and his organization, all aspects of life: civil, military, education, even health, even use of internet companies, even the crossings with Turkey or the areas of contact with the regime.Everything is in the hands of this organization; everything is being controlled.Anyone who speaks a word he doesn’t like is arrested.There are no trials; there’s no judiciary; no legal counsel.
My brother was detained for two years.We weren’t able to see him at all.In the end, we found out that he was killed through other prisoners.We were not informed by any members of the organization of his execution.They simply don’t care about this, just like any other terrorist organization.They don’t care to inform you about what they have committed, and they don’t allow his children to even see him.Samer had three children.They didn’t see him, and he didn’t see them.He has a fourth child who was born after his detention, and he never got to know him.The organization did not even allow him to see his children, the children he had.And now al-Jolani speaks shamelessly about supporting human rights and the media.It’s an irony.It’s a laughable irony.
Let’s talk about your brother.Can you describe the day your brother disappeared?Where were you, and how did you receive the news?
I was in Turkey, in the Turkish city of Bursa.I had left around 10 months earlier from Syria to escape first and foremost from the organization, al-Jolani’s organization.I found out the news from Facebook.Some friends posted that Samer was arrested by members of the organization.There was nothing that you could do about it, honestly.It was more like a black hole that swallowed this person.Over several months, my family, father tried to contact [someone] to find out where he was, what he was accused of to no avail.Members of the organization, the security and intelligence officials in the organization were promoting different accusations and justifications.Every once in a while, they have a different reasoning.One time they claim that Samer was an agent of the Assad regime; another time he is a traitor and an agent of the Kurds.Then he became a Russian agent, then an agent for the Americans.
Then suddenly, and after long months of detention, prisoners who had been recently released and were with him in the cell confirmed that Samer was executed with around 19 others in a mass execution.Samer was one of them.They assured us that Samer was killed a month or two from the time we were informed.We had known that Samer was alive and missing.Members of the organization were giving my father hope that he might be released in a little while, when Samer had actually been killed at that time.They are good at lying and claiming things.When we posted the news that Samer was killed by them, the organization—to justify and exonerate itself—posted a recorded video where Samer is seen giving a confession.
According to former prisoners who were with Samer, this video was recorded under torture.Samer lost toenails and fingernails twice due to torture.The first time he refused to record a confession.The second time he recorded this confession, as they promised him that “If you record this confession, it might be good for you; maybe you will be released.”He was killed.
In the confession video that was published, Samer says that he killed members of the organization.So Samer suddenly became a murderer.The organization forgot all of its previous stories that it promoted and started a new story.By the way, this method was used by the organization in all detention cases.It was used with my friend Yasser al-Saleem.He is a lawyer who was also detained, and they promoted endless accusations.In the end, due to popular pressure, Yasser was released.It was also used with the friend, the journalist and media personality Marwan al-Hamid, who was also Samer’s friend.He was also detained for months, and he talked to me about how they deluded him into thinking he will be executed more than once.When Marwan’s father died of grief and sadness, they released him.
Torture in HTS Prisons
Jolani told me there was no torture in his prisons.How do you respond to that?
You can ask former detainees.You can ask Marwan al-Hamid.At least these are my friends who I know.You can ask Yasser al-Saleem.You can ask a very long list of detainees.There is torture, and it’s brutal torture, and there are barbaric methods being used by these criminals, these terrorists.There are some tools known to be used only by them.We hear … out of all the torture methods used by Bashar al-Assad, used against prisoners, we never heard about something called the coffin.The coffin is a special torture method used in al-Iqab prison, one of the most horrific prisons of this gang.It’s a metal box.The prisoner is put inside it.Then it’s closed, but with his ends sticking outside the box to be used to torture him.In addition to pulling nails and lashings, and making them think they will be executed, to repeatedly take you to be executed, the knife is put over your neck to slaughter you.
This organization masters inventing torture methods, because it is an organization that claims to speak in the name of God, and when you speak in the name of God, you speak with absolute comfort.There are no restrictions or redlines.The Syrian humanitarian organizations that documented the torture operations, the pictures that were published by people who were subjected to torture for short periods before they were released are available on the internet, and the testimonies are also available on the internet, and you can see them for yourself without needing to take my word for it.There are endless testimonies about the abuses of this organization and their practice of torture in a systematic way.
The Turks are supporting Jolani and HTS, and there are those in the West in some think tanks and some people even in the U.S. government who say that Jolani has changed, that he is reformed and that he deserves a chance to prove it.How do you respond to them?
Yes, the Turks support al-Jolani.There is no question about it.It is very clear.There are Turkish military posts in Idlib.The Turkish convoys pass in front of the members and checkpoints of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, Jabhat al-Nusra, and there is no friction between them.There are members of Jabhat al-Nusra’s security who attend meetings in Turkey with Turkish security.There is some sort of coordination between them, and there is a sort of acceptance by Turkey of these abuses.
It is deeply regrettable what we are seeing today, whether in Britain, America or other places, the attempts and calls to accept al-Jolani because he has changed.I don’t know where are you seeing change.I don’t know what change you are seeing.In which aspects?In which place?We don’t see this.We, the Syrians on the ground, we only see more arrogance, more terrorism, more oppression, more confirmation that this organization exists by silencing other voices and abusing everything, including the livelihood of simple people, to impose themselves.
This organization is based on terrorist ideology.Its members are consumed with hatred for the other.In one way or another, they will hate the others; they will consider any foreigners—and I don’t think you entered Idlib and left comfortably or simply on your own.There must have been people who worked on securing your visit, or you would have now been kidnapped like others.There would have been negotiations for a ransom, and that’s if you’re not killed.Therefore, I hope that those people who are now claiming that al-Jolani has changed would watch the violations committed by this organization closely, and to think of this organization as a terrorist incubator as is the case with Bashar al-Assad.It is a terrorist incubator that creates hatred, rejection of the other and violence.
What would happen to you if you tried to return to Idlib?
I wouldn’t be able to meet you and talk with you, to begin with.
You had said, Mohamed, that you learned about the circumstances of your brother’s death from three former prisoners that were in prison with him, and one of them told you about Samer’s last moments before he was killed.
I told you that we were not officially informed by the organization that Samer had been executed.All the news we got about this was through former prisoners.By the way, this is totally similar to the state of the prisoners of the regime, al-Assad’s regime.It’s the same.You would never be informed by the regime that your son had been killed, or a detainee.… You also receive the news through the prisoners.There are great similarities between these two parties.
The first prisoner told me that Samer was assassinated, executed, but without details.I thought that it wasn’t true.Honestly, I just refused to believe.The second prisoner also confirmed this.Still, I insisted that this might be a set-up by the organization or an attempt to play with the family’s nerves.But then this was later confirmed by a third prisoner.The third prisoner recounted details.He told us that there are some kind of masked men.These men don’t come unless there is an execution order to be carried out.These men enter [the cell] and take the prisoners after they read their names.They read the names of around 19 people.They read their names, including Samer’s.They thought that they were going to be transported to a different location, so they carried their stuff, the few pieces of clothes they had and some food.The jailer told them not to take anything.The person told us that Samer was horrified.He wasn’t able to stand on his feet, so he was pulled.He tried to take his fourth child’s picture, the one who was born while he was in detention.
When we got news from the prisoners, they would sometimes tell us Samer needs clothes or some other stuff.My father used to leave the clothes at one of the organization’s checkpoints, and they would claim that they will take it to Samer without us even being able to see him.Among the things that we had sent Samer at some point was a picture of his child, so Samer took his child’s picture with him.The jailer asked him to leave it.He refused to leave the picture, so he grabbed the picture from his hand and threw it on the floor, and they pulled Samer outside with the rest of the prisoners.They tied their hands to the back, blindfolded them and took them outside.And it was over.During his last moments, Samer asked the prisoners to “tell my family; tell Mohamed; tell my father.”He left and did not return.The prisoners know well that he was executed.The jailers told them that—the specific sentence they used was “This pig was killed.”Until today, we did not receive Samer’s body.This feeling that this person disappeared and did not return is painful.You refuse to believe it; you refuse to live with it; you pretend to forget it.
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