JOSH BAKER:
Oh, it’s like a roller coaster, this road. Going up and down, we’ve got these oscillating hills that make your tummy go.
HANA:
Can you hear me?
JOSH BAKER:
There we go, that’s better.
HANA:
You want me to sing a song?
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
My colleague Hana and I are in the mountains of northern Iraq.
JOSH BAKER:
Hold on. We went the wrong way.
HANA:
Really?
JOSH BAKER:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we need to turn around. We've gone too far. Excellent.
HANA:
Excellent, Josh.
JOSH BAKER:
Excellent navigating, Josh.
HANA:
I gave you—
JOSH BAKER:
—one job.
HANA:
To direct me on the road.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Like any road trip, navigating is a point of contention.
HANA:
And now you’re saying?
JOSH BAKER:
We’re going to turn right.
HANA:
Right. Check it, please.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
You’d never know I'd been here before.
HANA:
So, right?
JOSH BAKER:
Right.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
The road gets narrower.
HANA:
End of the road.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Then it’s not much more than a dirt track.
HANA:
[Laughs] Wait, I have to ask someone. One minute, I'm coming back to you.
JOSH BAKER:
We’re kind of lost in a very remote village, where we no longer have roads. Oh, Hana’s making friends.
Now we’ve got three different men simultaneously giving directions, it’s really good. Man in red shirt is pointing back to where we were. Man in yellow and black striped shirt, he's drawing on his hand and is laughing lots. And for added measure a little boy has just arrived and is staring at all of us. What this situation needs is more men giving directions.
Oh, she’s coming back to the car. She doesn't have a happy look. Oh! Oh, no, are my directions going to be wrong? Uh-oh.
HANA:
We are totally in the wrong place, Josh.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
The reason I’m subjecting Hana to all this is because I’m looking for someone I haven’t seen in years.
We head back up the dirt track and along more mountain roads. And then, finally—
JOSH BAKER:
Ah. This is their home. I remember this now.
HANA:
Oh, thank God, you remember now.
AYHAM'S UNCLE:
Hello, Mr. Josh!
JOSH BAKER:
Hello, nice to see you again!
AYHAM'S UNCLE:
Ayham.
JOSH BAKER:
No! That's Ayham?
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Ayham is the young Iraqi boy who was bought by Sam and her husband, Moussa, as a slave.
JOSH BAKER:
Ayham, you're so tall!
HANA:
Oh, Ayham!
JOSH BAKER:
Oh, my God.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
I’m Josh Baker, and from BBC Panorama and FRONTLINE (PBS), this is I’m Not A Monster, “Episode 12, epilogue: ‘Those we leave behind.’”
At the end of the series we heard from Matthew and his family in America about how they're all doing now. But we didn’t hear from those on the other side of the world, in very different circumstances. People like Ayham.
So many of you wanted to know how he's doing now. So I called his uncle to ask about coming to visit.
I’m conscious Ayham’s been through a lot, so I wanted to check it would be OK. His uncle said yes; he wants people to know the reality of their situation.
AYHAM (archive):
One banana, two banana, three banana, four. Four banana, big banana, [inaudible] any more. You can listen?
JOSH BAKER (archive):
Where did you learn this song?
AYHAM (archive):
From this family American.
JOSH BAKER (archive):
From the American family?
AYHAM (archive):
Yeah. They learn me this song.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
I first met Ayham more than three years ago, just after he’d escaped the Islamic State group with Sam and her family.
JOSH BAKER:
Do you remember English? Shway shway? A little bit? Can I sit next to you?
AYHAM:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
How old are you now?
AYHAM:
Eleven years old.
JOSH BAKER:
Eleven years old?
AYHAM:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
So when I saw you, you would have been . . . 8 years old? Seven years old?
AYHAM:
Eight.
JOSH BAKER:
Eight years old.
AYHAM:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
And you had just come back.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Back then, he’d just been reunited with his Uncle Tahsin in Iraq. I’d found them outside the same half-built house we’re in now.
AYHAM (archive):
I have camera, just there’s no battery in it.
JOSH BAKER (archive):
Do you want to see my camera?
AYHAM (archive):
Yeah. Your camera is bigger from mine. Mine is really small.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Ayham was playing with a camera, but it didn’t work, so he’d pretend to take pictures.
JOSH BAKER:
Oh, you’ve got a proper camera now. Wow! Ayham’s got his camera out, and it works. Are you going to show me some pictures? Ah, it's your uncle!
AYHAM:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
Who’s this?
AYHAM:
I don’t know.
JOSH BAKER:
It's a very good picture.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
It’s a portrait of a man in a leather jacket.
JOSH BAKER:
I like it.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Ayham takes my headphones and puts them on.
AYHAM:
Hello?
JOSH BAKER:
Can you say [blows raspberry].
AYHAM:
[Blows raspberry, laughs]
JOSH BAKER:
[Laughs] Try again. [Blows raspberry]
AYHAM:
[Blows raspberry, laughs] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.
JOSH BAKER:
Can I do Arabic? [Counts in Arabic]
[Ayham repeats in Arabic]
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Ayham’s uncle tells me he’s doing well in school. He’s top of his class.
JOSH BAKER:
What would you like to do when you're older? Do you know? Do you have a dream?
AYHAM:
Doctor.
JOSH BAKER:
You want to be a doctor?
AYHAM:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
Really?
AYHAM:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
Do you a have favorite lesson?
AYHAM:
Football!
JOSH BAKER:
Football. Football’s not a subject. [Laughter]
Let’s play football. Yeah? I'm going to go. Oh, no, he’s got it through my legs!
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
The boy running rings around me has changed a lot. He’s still got that big, toothy grin, but he’s much quieter. His English has faded, too. It's been a long time since he lived with Sam and Matthew.
JOSH BAKER:
Can you show me your house?
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
As we spend the afternoon together, I look out for any signs of discomfort. I want to make sure Ayham's not upset by me being here. But thankfully, he seems relaxed.
JOSH BAKER:
Ayham, who are these two?
HANA:
The one in the black T-shirt is a cousin.
JOSH BAKER:
Cousin. And this person?
AYHAM:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
Brother? How do I say "what is your name" in Kurdish? [Josh speaking Kurdish]
ANNAS:
Annas.
JOSH BAKER:
Annas?
ANNAS:
Mmm.
JOSH BAKER:
Hello, Annas. How are you?
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Annas is Ayham’s younger brother, but they’ve only lived together for the past few years.
NEWS ARCHIVE:
Death and desperation in the mountains of northern Iraq. Tens of thousands of people, many of them members of the Yazidi community, are trapped on Mount Sinjar.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
They're part of the Yazidi religious community in Iraq.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (archive):
They’re without food. They're without water. People are starving and children are dying of thirst.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
In August 2014, ISIS attacked their hometown, committing what the U.N. has called a genocide.
NEWS ARCHIVE:
Those that have made it to safety tell harrowing stories of men being slaughtered and young women taken away by the militants.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Women and children were kidnapped and enslaved in their thousands. Ayham was among them. So too were his mom and brother Annas.
HANA:
They kidnapped both of them in the hospital. So the mother was giving birth when in the same date that the Sinjar was fallen.
JOSH BAKER:
Really?
HANA:
Yeah. So when they kidnapped him, ISIS kidnapped him, he was just three hours born.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
With Hana translating, the uncle tells me that ISIS snatched Annas and his mom from the hospital just hours after she’d given birth. For years he had no idea if they’d survived. This is common amongst the Yazidi community. Thousands of people are still missing, their families unsure if they’re dead or alive.
But Ayham’s uncle says in late 2017 he got a call from a man who was trying to reunite people with their relatives. Annas was alive. He was with a family in Syria.
HANA (translating):
The family, they said, "We are not ISIS, but ISIS gave us your son." So they sent us a photo and video of the baby, and then we recognize yes, this is our baby.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
It may sound hard to believe—that a baby who disappears from a hospital in Iraq could end up being reunited with his family years later. But there are underground networks spanning Iraq and Syria which have brought home hundreds of Yazidis. When they find a missing person, they share photos and videos amongst the Yazidi community hoping someone will recognize them. When Ayham’s uncle was sent a picture of a young boy, he knew immediately that it was his nephew because Annas has a distinctive birthmark on his face. A local foundation agreed to cover the cost of bringing him home.
HANA (translating):
So he was in Syria, so they paid money to rescue him. They transferred him to Ankara, Turkey, and from Turkey, by smuggler way, they brought him back here.
JOSH BAKER:
So you paid smugglers to bring back Ayham's brother.
HANA:
From Syria to Turkey they paid $5,000, and from Turkey to Iraq they paid $3,500. So, total $8,500.
JOSH BAKER:
To save the boy’s life?
AYHAM'S UNCLE:
Mmm.
HANA (translating):
He don’t remember anything because when we brought him back he was just 3 years old.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Ayham’s uncle tells us it means the world to have both Ayham and Annas home and to be able to see the brothers grow up and play together. As for what happened to the boys’ mother, he says he’d rather not talk about it.
JOSH BAKER:
Can I ask, how are the children doing mentally? Are they OK? Are they healthy?
AYHAM'S UNCLE:
[Speaking Kurdish]
HANA (translating):
They are good right now, mentally. They are really good. The youngest one, Annas, no, he was not having any problem, but Ayham, yeah, for one year, he was thinking about Sam and Yusef and the children. But right now he’s good.
JOSH BAKER:
What happened when he was thinking about Sam and the children?
AYHAM'S UNCLE:
[Speaking Kurdish]
HANA (translating):
He was asking to go and live with them. But after one, two, three years passed, he got used to the situation. But he is right now good.
JOSH BAKER:
What do you want for Ayham and his brother's future?
HANA (translating):
He said, "I just want Ayham and his brother to go abroad, not stay here, even for my family, for my children. I want all of them to live in a place where there is law and justice and humanity, because in Iraq there is no safe here."
JOSH BAKER:
Ayham, I’m very happy that you’re safe and well. It was nice to see you. Goodbye!
AYHAM:
Goodbye.
JOSH BAKER:
Bye! He’s so shy now.
HANA:
Yeah.
JOSH BAKER:
He’s very different.
HANA:
But the uncle, he's really an amazing man. Taking care of children beside his children.
JOSH BAKER:
The difficulty is, it feels like they're healthy, but they don’t really seem to have much of a future at the moment.
HANA:
Yeah. Imagine, it's been seven years. We are in the same place, in the same point without changing.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Iraq has seen decades of conflict. The town of Sinjar, where Ayham and his family are from, is still mostly in ruins seven years on from its destruction by ISIS, and accessing health care, education and even clean water can be tough.
Some of the Yazidi community have been able to start rebuilding their lives overseas, and that’s what Ayham’s uncle wants for his family. He says they've applied for visas to Australia, but their application was turned down. He doesn't know why and says he will try again. He fears that no matter how well Ayham does in school, there’s no future for him here. That Ayham needs a chance at a new life.
They all do.
In a town not too far away, there’s someone else I want to see.
JOSH BAKER:
I’m so nervous. Can I go? Wow. [Laughs] Suad! Hello. Tamam? You look so cool. You look so well! I’ve been waiting to come and see you for years! I’m so happy.
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
I’m happy, too.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Like Ayham, Suad was kidnapped by ISIS, taken to Syria and bought by Sam and her husband Moussa as a slave. Last time I was here, she was working in a clothes shop, but the business failed. Now she works as a cleaner in a children’s center. Hana chats to Suad’s boss while I try not to get in the way of her hoovering.
HANA:
Her manager, she said that in the beginning when she came here she was almost covering her face with a scarf and wearing—not wearing normal trousers or anything, or jeans. But she become much better. The smile appear on her face, we can see. You know in the beginning when we saw her, she was shy, even she was not looking to us. You remember?
JOSH BAKER:
Yeah, yeah.
HANA:
But now she's laughing and you can see she's happy.
JOSH BAKER:
No, you go in the front, it's fine.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
A short drive away is where Suad, her mom and her sister still live in tents by the side of the road.
Last time Hana and I were here, Suad’s tent was lit by a single bare bulb.
JOSH BAKER:
Where shall I sit?
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Now it’s got more lights and two big fridges that are linked up to a noisy generator. It's kind of cozy and neatly organized, but it's still a makeshift camp.
JOSH BAKER:
I think it's in this area that I first talked to you.
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
I’m so happy to see both of you again.
JOSH BAKER:
There’s so many things I want to ask you but also to tell you and to update you on. I had so many people writing me emails, texts, tweets asking, "How is Suad?" People really came to care about you and respect you. So, how are you?
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
So thank God, I'm OK. The sadness will not disappear, but thank God, I'm fine. I'm OK now. In the beginning when I came back I was really sad. I wasn't going outside at all. But now, I'm going out with my friends.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
Suad also tells me how she still struggles, that at night she’s haunted by memories of what she endured in Syria. She was bought by Sam from a slave market and suffered terrible abuse in Sam and Moussa’s home. But despite that, Suad has always told me she feels Sam tried to protect her and ultimately helped her escape.
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
Sometimes I’m thinking I’m missing her a lot, I'm missing the children. But I cannot do anything. I’m missing her.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
I explain to Suad that Sam pleaded guilty to financing terrorism and is now in prison in America.
JOSH BAKER:
Does that change the way that you think about Sam?
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
Maybe she made a mistake, but I don’t know.
JOSH BAKER:
Do you still feel that Sam saved your life? I saw you nodding.
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
Yes.
JOSH BAKER:
Do you want to ask me anything?
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
She asks me about Matthew and if I have any photos.
JOSH BAKER:
This is his father, and this is Matthew.
HANA:
Yusef.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
She smiles when she sees him—Yusef, as she calls him.
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
Yusef looks like his father. Matthew looks like his father.
JOSH BAKER:
He looks like a mini version of his father, isn't he?
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
I ask Suad what she wants for her future. It’s similar to what Ayham's uncle said: She wants to leave, go abroad.
SUAD (voice actor reading in English):
We don’t want to stay here, in the camp, in the tents. It's difficult even working, earning money. It's not enough for us. No one is helping us. I just want to have a normal life like other people. A nice life, a good life like other people. I just want to leave.
JOSH BAKER:
I'm so happy to see you.
[People speaking in the background]
Bye, Suad. Take care. Will you say goodbye to her?
Just leaving Suad's, and it’s kind of bittersweet, because she's much happier and healthier, and her life is a bit more stable than it was when I first met her, but she's still suffering the nightmares of what she experienced with ISIS. It’s stuck in her mind. It wakes her up at night. It keeps her from meeting new people. Her mother was saying that she's had men want to marry her and that she has no interest because it’s too painful. She's really in some ways a lot better, but in others the lasting impact of what she's been through is just—it’s very real, and it's—I don’t think it’s ever going to leave her. She’s desperate to get out of this country and she has no way to do that.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
For Ayham, Suad, Matthew and Sam, life is more stable than it's been for years. But the difference is, Matthew is back with his dad. He’ll have a shot at a decent future and has been given support to overcome his trauma. Even Sam will get a second chance when she gets out of prison. But Ayham and Suad’s ability to shape their future, like many in the country, is limited. And that’s the stark difference between going home to America and returning to Iraq.
And this is where I’m Not A Monster ends—for now.
But there’s something else I want to tell you about. It's a new series I’m working on for BBC Sounds, because when the ISIS caliphate finally fell, the people who were with the group didn’t just vanish.
Sam may be back in America, but today thousands of men, women and children are held in prisons and detention camps in northern Syria. And countries around the world are divided on what to do with them.
JOSH BAKER:
So I'm driving along a road that snakes through this sort of fairly barren landscape. It’s 42 degrees, so the grass is definitely no longer green. And we're just passing through a Kurdish checkpoint because we're heading to a camp called Camp Roj. Now, it’s kind of I guess what you would imagine a refugee camp to look like. There are lines and lines of white tents. I can just see it now as we're coming over the crest of this hill. You have thousands of women and children here, but they're not so much refugees as they are people who have been with ISIS. Now, I'm here to see one specific woman that I have been waiting to talk to for about six years. I don’t know if she’s going to talk to me, but we’re going to find out.
BBC ARCHIVE:
Why was a 15-year-old girl able to go and travel to Syria? Was she trafficked? Was she groomed?
NEWSREEL:
I don't trust her. I think she’s dangerous. I think she’s completely indoctrinated with these assassins.
FOX NEWS ARCHIVE:
Media outlets have simultaneously painted a sympathetic picture of these terrorist brides now yearning for their homelands.
NEWS ARCHIVE:
It does seem as if we're using Shamima Begum as an embodiment of our hatred of ISIS.
NEWSREEL:
So the Shamima Begum debate goes on.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
The British government believes she's a threat to national security and has taken away her citizenship to stop her coming back. Others argue she's a victim who was just 15 when she was groomed into leaving her London home and trafficked to Syria by ISIS.
At times it feels like everyone has an opinion about her. But so little is known about what actually happened. For months, I’ve been speaking to Shamima Begum, trying to piece together who she really is, investigating how she ended up with ISIS, what she really did, and asking what do we do with the thousands like her who remain in Syria.
JOSH BAKER:
What would you say to your 15-year-old self now?
SHAMIMA BEGUM:
"Don’t do it, bitch. Just don't do it." She wouldn’t believe me anyway. She was too arrogant at that time.
JOSH BAKER (narrating):
We’re still working on the new series. So to make sure you hear about it first, subscribe to I’m Not A Monster on BBC Sounds. Next week we’ll have a question-and-answer episode, so look out for it wherever you get your podcasts.
You've been listening to I'm Not A Monster. It's a collaboration between BBC Panorama and FRONTLINE (PBS) for BBC Sounds. The series is written by me, Josh Baker, and Joe Kent. We produced it together with Max Green. Lucie Sullivan is our production assistant. The composer is Sam Slater. The editor is Emma Rippon, and it was mixed by Tom Brignell. There's a huge team behind the project. At BBC Panorama, Karen Wightman is the editor. At FRONTLINE (PBS), Raney Aronson is the executive producer. The commissioning executive for BBC Sounds is Dylan Haskins. We've made a film as well as a podcast, and if you're in the U.K. you can watch Return From ISIS on BBC iPlayer. In the U.S., you can watch it frontline.org. And you can subscribe to I'm Not A Monster on the free BBC Sounds app.
