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Responses and Comments #13
May 23, 1997
Question:
I was just reading David Breashears interview in regard to
the recent tragedy from the Northern route. David made the
comment that Everest is this huge magnet that draws people
to it so that in their quest to fulfill a dream and
accomplish it some give up their lives and that this a
natural consequence of high altitude mountaineering. I
understand that even under the best of situations, and with
the most experienced there can be mishaps...but are these
large numbers of deaths on Everest in the last two years a
lack of preparation and experience and due to the sheer
number of expeditions? Or the ambitions and motivations of
these expeditions to blame? I am sure David and his NOVA
team are patient and prudent. But don't these other teams
endanger those that are experienced? And where is that line
drawn? When will one team not come to the aid of another due
to either ambition of its own...or lack of resources...or
possible danger to themselves? Or is life in the death zone
one of every man for himself? I suppose one cannot protect
someone from himself, that one will reap the consequences of
one's actions. But can those actions endanger others? Good
luck to David and the rest of the NOVA team. God speed and
safe climbing.
Thomas Auyong
Diamond Bar, CA
Response from David Breashears:
With the dramatic increase in the number of people on
Everest along with the commensurate increase of people
trying for the summit in a short weather window, it follows
that there would be an increase in fatalities. It is as much
due to bad weather as poor decision making in climbing. It's
worth noting that inexperienced and experienced climbers
alike have been dying over the last years. It is up to each
team to decide who aids those who need assistance. When in
the death zone, there is an extraordinary level of self
preservation. This is often much stronger than the urge to
help others, when this could endanger oneself. But there are
also very heroic acts of selflessness seen at high altitude
and we've also seen similar acts of deep selfishness. It is
an interesting question as to how climbers in a hypoxic,
sleep deprived, dehydrated extremely exhausted state should
be held accountable for the decisions they make at high
altitudes. You can also read my essay written several years
ago for the American Alpine Journal, titled "Every
Man for Himself" which addresses this issue.
Question:
It is ironic that mountain climbers are willing to risk
their lives to obtain high altitude views, yet when these
same views are available from a high flying passenger plane,
the passenger is often urged to close the blind in order to
facilitate the watching of a movie that could be seen
anytime on video.
John Harding
Washington, DC
Response from Pete Athans:
Actually, viewing from an aircraft the same panorama a
climber would view is impossible. Further, there is a
distinction in succeeding in the process of climbing
Everest—not just arriving by public
conveyance—that makes the view satisfying.
Question:
I have visited other Mt. Everest web sites and I noticed
they mentioned the "gorak" as a type of animal that they saw
on their climb. I know that this is a bird, but I was
wondering what does it eat, what are its predators, what
does it look like, and what are its behavioral
characteristics? Please write me the answer if you know.
R.G.
Pennsylvania
Response from Base Camp:
Goraks are scavengers, living off any scraps they can find.
They do not have many predators, but do have to brave the
elements such as the cold and wind.
Question:
Where can I get a copy of your book,
Everest, the West Ridge. I have tried quite a few
book stores and dealers that specialize in hard to get books
with no success. I have just finished Jon Krakauer's book,
and I am starting it again tonight. My prayers go with the
team.
Tom Walsh
Denmark, Maine
Response from Pete Athans:
Try Michael Chessler Books in Kitteridge, Colorado for Tom
Hornbein's book.
Question:
In recent years there has been a growing trend in
individuals with relatively little mountaineering expertise
paying for guide service to be escorted on a summit attempt.
Based on your experience, is such commercialization
inherently flawed or have technological advances actually
brought an Everest summit attempt closer to the general
population? Have you had any contact with such individuals
on your current trip?
Scott Kennedy
Huighland, CA
Response from Pete Athans:
The trend is not growing. People's awareness of it has
grown. Some individuals have the skills and training to be
guided, others do not.
Question:
Hope everyone continues to enjoy good health there and
things progress for you guys. I have a couple of questions.
Many of the more successful Everest climbers are more
"mature" (sorry guys!). At least compared to the typical
rock-jock/gym rat set anyhow. My question is, given that
some of you have had multiple Everest experiences, have you
noticed a change with age that in some way might give you an
edge that you might not have had the first time you were
there? Certainly it's true that a person's physiological
makeup (breathing/heart rate, etc.) changes with age, and I
just thought that maybe age here might at times be an
advantage (separate from experience). Also, a quick question
about weather. There have been a few winter ascents if I
remember correctly. Besides the cold temperatures that one
would have to deal with, I was wondering if the jet stream
moves and stays away from the mountain for long periods of
time during the winter months, thereby possibly decreasing
the wind factor that otherwise always.
Doug V.
La Jolla, CA
Response from Pete Athans:
Experience being on a mountain is always a positive asset.
Knowledge of the route provides a security when climbing.
During the winter months, the Jet Stream is right over the
mountain.
Response from Dr. Howard Donner:
There is current evidence that intracranial dynamics play a
role in the development of AMS and Cerebral Edema. There is
preliminary suggestion that some of the cerebral changes
occurring with aging may protect older climbers from
developing symptoms as readily.
Question:
I remember reading somewhere about a film crew that was
producing an IMAX film while climbing and attempting to
summit on Mt. Everest around the same time as the tragedy in
1996. Do you know anything about this, and whether or not
they ever succeeded in summiting and making the film? Also,
have any of you climbed any of the other 8000-meter peaks?
Good luck on your summit bid! (I can't think of climbing
anything higher than14'ers!)
Jolene Fox
Denver, CO
Response from Base Camp:
The MacGillivray Freeman Films' sponsored Everest Film was
shot by David Breashears and crew. They summited
successfully and shot precious film on the summit. The film
will premier in March of 1998.
Question:
Since I have been following your climb, I was amazed to
discover the number of climbers and groups attempting the
summit at once. I was disappointed because it seemed like a
'tourist' stop. But then tragedy strikes and your snapped
back to the reality that the mountain is rock and ice and
unforgiving. I know you know this, more than anyone of us
flat-landers, I would like to know how you brace yourself
for this? How do you go on finish what you started?
God bless,
Byron McClure
Response from David Breashears:
If one of your friends of family died in a car, would you
quit driving a car? There's nothing about climbing Everest
that's dangerous—most people die of human error. We're
experienced, we're cautious, we watch the weather. We don't
think climbing Everest is a death sentence. If you're
willing to make the right decisions, such as turning around
in storm, we don't think that climbing Everest then has to
be governed by fear.
Question:
I've stumbled across your web site and I'm completely amazed
that in this day and age, we can communicate our thoughts to
the top of the world with the press of a button! Great Job!
I called my Aunt who has been trekking in Nepal and spent a
wonderful evening discussing your journey and the
fascinating information that has been provided on the web
site. We came up with a few questions for you: At one time,
the bell of the monastery at Thyangboche was an empty oxygen
bottle. It made a wonderful reverberating sound. Is this
still the case and did the bell tower suffer in the fire in
1989? With the large numbers of climbing groups that come in
every year, is all of their food imported or are there
enough local vegetables, etc. grown to supplement the
climbers diets? What kind of equipment will you be using to
perform your physiological tests? Does this equipment behave
differently at altitude than at sea level? How is it
transported and how does the transportation affect the
calibration? Thank you for the response! Good luck and safe
returns to each of you!
Scott Connigham
Stillwater, OK
Response from Pete Athans:
Aside from meager foundations, the entire monastery was
destroyed by a fire in 1989. Most of the expeditions here at
Base Camp bring in half of their food from their own
country.
Question:
I am overwhelmed with the number and quality of questions
and responses coming from the climbing team and base camp
(BC) support group. Do you keep all the info flow in
electronic form? If you were to print out all the
communications, BC would be a massive clutter of paper and
used supplies. Usually camping requires a major plan to
conserve resources to the very minimum. Does having a yak
train and lots of porters mean that you can plan a 3 month
stay at the base of Everest to have lots more amenities than
you would if you were hauling the materials yourself? Do you
hear the cry go out each day that "The 12:52 yak train is
arriving on Path 7?" How do you decide what records to keep
for later film production out of the massive flow of
information that you have established at BC?
Peter B. Clark
Hamilton, MA
Response from Liesl Clark:
Hey, great last name. Yes, we do keep all information
flowing in electronic form as we have to respond to the
e-mails and then retransmit them back to NOVA. We also print
out all of the e-mails, which results in about 15
pages-worth of cut and pasted e-mails every two days or so.
It's nice for those who are unable to hover around our two
laptops to be able to read the e-mails on a hard copy and
then respond in ink. Associate Producer Kate Churchill and I
then type them up. Our resources are conserved to a relative
minimum, but since we're producing a live web site, we need
to have laptops, satellite phone, printer and paper for
that. Our 'office supplies' are confined to two medium size
cases. Yes, having yaks and porters enables us to carry in
much more than we would if we were to carry these things in
ourselves. For example, I would've immediately nixed the
three hole punch if I knew I had to carry it in on my own
back. The CD player and stash of CDs from home certainly
helps for ambiance up here, too. Yaks do come and go,
carrying in local foods (sometimes even beer), but we only
see the large "trains" when an expedition is moving in our
moving out of Base Camp. To answer your question of how do
we decide what records to keep for later film
production—we keep all records. Basically all info is
stored in the computers in a folder called "get high" aka
"going higher." We then have folders for camera notes, sound
notes, climbers' e-mail (in and out) from the Web site,
personal e-mail, research, newsflashes, text for the
website, still photo logs, digital images, images
transmitted by sat phone, pulse oximeter readings,
transcriptions of all interviews conducted on digital audio
tapes here, vital statistics of the climbers at various
camps on the mountain, notes on the neuro-behavioral tests
we're giving, etc. All of this info will be useful (and
imperative) for the film.
Question:
Thank you for sharing the expedition with us! We are all
looking forward to a safe and successful outcome, both in
terms of the summit and your findings. A few years ago, I
did some research on the effects of Acetazolamide on max and
submax exercise at normoxic and hypoxic conditions. It was
the treatment of choice at the time for AMS. Can you tell me
why Nifedipine is now the preferred treatment? How long does
it take to reach therapeutic levels? One of the potentially
negative side affects of Nifedipine is periferal edema, and
it is contraindicated in cases of CHF. Is periferal edema a
problem in climbers on Nifedipine? Is it used to treat
already existant HAPE or merely to prevent it? Thanks again
for this exciting venture!
Barb Engebretsen
Laurel, NE
Response from Dr. Howard Donner:
Acetazolamide is still the "treatment of choice" for AMS and
prevention of AMS. Nifedipine is considered the drug of
choice for HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema) especially
when lacking the availability of supplemental oxygen.
Therapeutic levels of Nifedipine are reached very quickly
especially when initiated with a 10mg bite and swallow dose.
This can be followed by the 30mg sustained release form once
or twice a day. Peripheral Edema is not typically seen with
Nifedipine administration at altitude (unless pre-existing),
because cardiac function in HAPE patients is usually quite
normal. The biggest clinical side effect would be
orthostatic hypotension, but this is rarely seen in hydrated
climbers. Nifedipine has been used for both treatment and
prevention of HAPE.
Question:
Read all the comments with great interest...best of luck.
With all of the pressure you must be feeling, does anything
FUNNY ever happen up there, and, if so, what (other than
getting silly notes like this...) ?? How do you keep a sense
of humor?
David Jamieson
Tampa, FL
Response from Pete Athans:
Medication helps! Our Sherpa team reminds me of the juvenile
band I "studied" with in Junior High—pure comic
relief.
Response from Base Camp:
Things got pretty hilarious when Howard Donner arrived with
various tools from his trade: 1) a big plastic eye with
veins popping out of it for use in a retinal hemorrhage
sequence we were shooting (it's called a "gurgling gutz
eyeball"); 2) a plastic arm that appears in the strangest
places (imagine, an arm lying underneath the entrance to
your tent); 3) a yet-to-be-placed rubber excrement (poop)
that will surely appear in someone's sleeping bag in the
next few days. David Breashears is the most likely
candidate; and 4) SPIN, our crash test dummy friend who will
hopefully be the first plastic hero to the summit of
Everest. Also, the daily radioed-in rap songs sung by our
virtuoso, Pete Athans, have kept us hooting. We need to find
him an agent.
Question:
As we were reading your previous information we noticed that
the first two weeks of May were considered prime time for
summitting Mt. Everest. How long into the season can a
successful climb be attempted? As May turns to June, July,
and August how does that effect the climb? Also, I was able
to listen to your interview of May 14 and was amazed and
pleased. Tears of joy came to my eyes to realize that my
students and I were able to hear from the "top of the
world". With all your efforts and duties there we wish to
express sincere appreciation that you and your team are
willing to share this experience with the rest of us. Take
care and tell Liesl Clark that my fifth grade class still
thinks of her!
Sharon Simon/Helen Smith
Barboursville, WV
Response from Pete Athans:
The spring or pre-monsoon season is over on the first of
June and we are not allowed to be climbing after that date.
The last summit dates are the 27th and 28th of May.
Response from Liesl Clark:
Hello to Sharon Simon's Class from Base Camp. The pressure's
building up here and we're so pleased to know that you're
with us on this expedition. We've just received a weather
report stating that a projected cyclone is moving north from
the Bay of Bengal, but weakening. That's good news for us as
we only have a handful of days to get this show on the road.
Keep your fingers crossed.
Question:
I find your medical information of sats and vitals to be
quite interesting. When climbing, what flow of O2
do you use and what are the sats and vitals with activity?
Do you ever consider high dose steroid injections (decedron)
in times of distress? Also, how about the use of free
radical inhibitors or carbonic anhydrase inhibitors?
Scott Hardeman
St. Louis, MO
Response from Dr. Howard Donner:
The flow rate is set at 2 liters per minute. As an example,
during a test, David Breashears' oxygen saturation at 21,400
feet was 94% on 2 liters per minute. Our climbers usually do
not use bottled oxygen until they are above 26,000 feet.
Decadron is used along with descent for cerebral forms of
severe mountain sickness. Carbonic anhydrase inhibitors
(Diamox) are often used for prevention and or treatment of
AMS (acute Mountain Sickness). Our climbers prefer to
acclimatize at a rate which avoids symptoms without the use
of pharmaceutical agents.
Question:
This question is for climber David Carter.
I understand that you are native to Indianapolis and was
just wondering how you be came interested in climbing and
taking expeditions in such uncharted and dangerous areas
when the area around Indianapolis is flat with just a few
rolling hills. I would also like to inform you that I am a
7th grade student at Franklin Township Middle School, on
team 7-2 we recently studied Mount Everest. Our Social
Studies teacher Ms. Carnine has spoken about your visit to
the Middle School several years and she has told us about
your first trip to Everest and many of the things that you
mentioned when you came to speak to team 7-2 at the middle
school. I hope that you have a good climb and return safely,
thanks for your time.
S.C.
Indianapolis, IN
Response from David Carter:
I went on a vacation when I was 15 and challenged my dad to
climb Mt. Rainer. The next year we went and climbed Rainer
and fell in love with the mountains. It beats watching corn
grow in Indiana. It's good to hear from you at Franklin Town
Middle School.
Question:
David Carter,
I saw in your response to a letter that you climbed Mt.
Rainier in your first days of climbing. I did that climb in
'88 and the guides said they train for Everest on Rainier. I
was wondering how much more of a technical climb Everest is
compared to Rainier. Good luck to all of you during climb.
Peter Gatchell
Cincinnati, OH
Response from David Carter:
Rainer in every aspect is like Everest except in altitude.
There are some technical areas on Everest such as the Khumbu
Icefall, Lhotse Face and the Hillary Step which, at
altitude, can be quite challenging.
previous set of responses
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