Weyrich: Yes, he has a guiding vision. But I think it is one which will ultimately prove to be a problem for him because it's not based in truth. It is very technologically oriented. It is very much oriented not in the Judeo-Christian principles that are the only principles that work, but in some more nebulous notions of contemporary philosophers.

Now, you know, Newt is a very smart individual and if he finds that some of this experimentation doesn't work, he'll change. I mean, one good thing about him is he does not stick to error forever as some people do. He's willing to look at a different alternative.

Q: But it seems to me that it's inevitably so, and that every movement needs men and women of ideas and men and women of action, and they're not always necessarily embodied in the same person. You-all have a distinct view of the revolution --it's not over I gather in your mind?

Weyrich: Oh, no. No.

Q: There are still things to be done?

Weyrich: Oh, absolutely. Got a long way to go. In fact, I question the term 'revolution' because revolution suggests a really fundamentally different way of doing things in Washington and that's not really what's happening. I mean, there are changes that are taking place and some of them are significant. If in fact a Welfare Reform Bill that does away with AFDC is signed by the President, that would be very significant. But, it is not revolution. Many of the most troublesome programs have survived and it remains to be seen whether, when all is said and done, the troops that Newt has behind him will have the stomach for the long haul.

Q: Do you have any indication of what degree Newt is devoted to carrying on reform --if we shouldn't use the word 'revolution.'

Weyrich: Oh, I think he wants to carry on reform. I think that is the primary objective that he has in mind. The question is whether he would carry this on in his current position or whether he would attempt to become President and carry it on. I think that's the issue. But I don't think there's any doubt about his devotion.

Q: To what do you attribute this solidarity and loyalty in this freshman class to Newt?

Weyrich: Well, they believe that he was very much connected to their victory when all other political analysts and even Party officials were writing off the chance to win a majority in the House of Representatives. Newt Gingrich was there telling them, 'No, it can be done, and if you'll just push a little harder, and win your seat and the other guys win theirs. We're gonna do it.' He was the only one that was telling them that. And if you're out there and you're battling against odds, and you're 22 points behind and it's three weeks before the election and you're having trouble raising money because nobody thinks you can win and Newt Gingrich says, 'No, I think you can win. And furthermore I'll come to your district and I'll campaign for you and I'll try to help you and so on.' I mean, you can't buy that kind of loyalty.

Q: I was not suggesting that he was doing it for cynical reasons, but even if he was, it certainly paid off.

Weyrich: I don't think it was cynical. I mean, I think he is the one person who actually believed that this was going to happen. I have to confess to you, I did not. I mean, I thought they would gain significantly, and I thought that Newt would probably have operating control of the House, but I did not think the Republicans would get a majority in this election.

Q: I wonder to what degree you believe that Newt seized upon the conservative urge as a conveyance toward the end of his own attainment of position and power.

Weyrich: No, I think it's more complicated than that. I don't deny that ambition is connected with it, but I think that Newt has genuinely wanted to reform the way things have been done in Washington. That was true even in his Rockefeller days. There is a large coincidence between the need to reform and the conservative agenda. For a long time, he never referred to himself as a conservative. It's only very recently that he speaks of being a conservative. He always spoke of him being an ally of the conservative movement. And I think his words were very carefully chosen because I think he understood that convergence between the conservative agenda and the reform agenda that he represented. Now he sees himself as the leader of conservatives in the country, I think primarily because conservatism is so much more mainstream than it was when he began in the political process 20 years ago.