Speaker Habit, if we just start at the beginning. When did you guys meet?
Speaker You know, I can’t remember when I met David. I mean, my my recollection of actual years is pretty bad. But I know I met him a long time ago because I I played on the first Jackson Browne racket of on a track called Redneck Friend.
Speaker And David asked me to do that. I met David Whalid way before that. David was in my consciousness because he was involved with Laura Nyro. Laura Nyro was one of my favorite singers of all time and writers of all time. So I knew that David was involved with Laura Nyro. So he he, you know, plunge into my consciousness by being involved with her. And when I met him, I was very excited because of his connection with Laura. Anyone who spotted someone that talented had to be special, kind of special. Let’s face it, because Laura was special. Laura never met Lauren. One of the greatest. What can I say? It’s it’s it’s not a. Let me set up meeting low, not meeting Lauren hours. Something I always regret. And I’m unfortunately, she passed away so early in her life, I never got to tell her how great she was. But she was great. And David was involved with her. And I thought, well, his name is. He must be good. Little did I know at that point that David’s career would go through the roof. I didn’t know anything about him being a male boy at William Morris or wherever he was. But then, I mean, I can’t remember when I met him. I really can’t. But I mean, I know I know that he was involved with music, with Joni Mitchell, with great music, with the Eagles, with Joni Mitchell, with Neil Young. I know he had the asylum record label, which had nothing but good things on it. And he was the whiz kid and the one who had his had the ear for good music and good American music. You know, he was the one. And when he formed Geffen Records, his first re acquisitions were Donna Summer, who was the biggest disco artist of the time, me and John Lennon. And the first rule was we put out were disaster, unfortunately for him. Except, of course, John then got shot. And then the album Double Fantasy became a success. But I’d always wanted to work with David. I wanted to be involved with him because I thought he he knew all about the music business. He was an I was a great businessman, but more because he was he really loved the music. You know, he had a great year for music, but I actually can’t remember when I first met him. Known him a long, long time. And he’s been a friend for a long, long time.
Speaker You must’ve been Roxy, the Troubadour, the Roxy.
Speaker But I mean that. No, I must have been. I must have been. Yeah. In fact, I think. Have a picture. Well, then you know things better than I had for days. Yeah.
Speaker He was one of the idler. Yeah. Partners in the club. Ellie Roberts, the club opening night.
Speaker Now, if you say I was there, I was there. I mean, I went to so many things when I was younger. And I just don’t have the memory for them. But the other thing, of course, that drew me to was, David, with the fact that, you know, he was a gay man and I was one of the few artists out there that was gay. So I felt very safe and protected with David. We had that much in common, which was very important to me at the time. I came out at quite an early stage of my career when I was at the top of my game. And I did ask his advice on and, you know, he just said, well, most people know anyway I was in the business. I’m not sure I knew. I just couldn’t believe I had been asked that question. Debbie was always very supportive, has always been very supportive of my career. Even still, up to this very day, he’s all, you know, we keep in touch. I had dinner with him last week. He’s someone that I always would refer to or defer to if I needed to ask a question.
Speaker He’s a good advice giver.
Speaker Yes, he is. Yeah, he’s the easy thing. David is no mucking around. He gives it like it it he tells it like it is. If you don’t like it tough, you ask the question, you know, he’ll give you a very, very sincere and blunt answer here.
Speaker Trying to get his bluntness.
Speaker Yeah. I mean, I mean, it’s sometimes it’s hard to take for an artist, but, you know, in retrospect, I’d much prefer that than to someone who, you know, is jivin you around and, you know, saying one thing to your face and another behind your back. David, with always being honest towards me and, you know, my time getting record, I didn’t deliver the best records I could have possibly delivered. They weren’t. They were. Some of them were not bad. And I had some hits there. And Johnny Bobbitt, who’s become a lifelong friend. But no, I’m you know, I, I. I had that kind of tenuous relationship with Geffen. But part of that was my fault because of the stuff I was giving them. So I know I’ve always appreciated. I’ve never lost David’s friendship. I’ve always, always respect his honesty. And, you know, sometimes that’s not what an artist. Stay here. But I’d also say I’d rather have that than the other side of the coin.
Speaker Is it true that at some point he sent you on a trip to Hawaii or something with Bernie because he said, I want you to try to get some better stuff. You guys go off and create.
Speaker Probably, yes. I mean it. Bernie and I at that point were kind of on the cusp. We were giving each other a little space and I was writing with other people. So that was the experiment that was going on at that point. You know, he always tried to advise me on my career, whether I took that advice sometimes like I probably didn’t. I might make probably should have done that. But, you know, David was a personal friend. He came to stay with my house on holiday, you know. So he was more than just someone that I did business with. He was someone I trusted, someone I enjoyed being with, someone who I loved his company. We had a lot of laughs together and we still do.
Speaker What do you remember that he asked you to go on Cher’s first show?
Speaker Yes. Did the pilot show for Cher, which was me, Bette Midler and Flip Wilson? And it was fantastic. You know, that was one of the great television moments for me because he was the pilot show, which obviously was picked up because it was such a great show. And George Schlatter did it. And I think and the costumes by Bob Mackey, they were outrageous. The show was outrageous. Cher was in the form of a life and so was bad. And we had the ball. We had a ball Flip Wilson, and we didn’t see much of him. He was you know, he had a very big drug problem. And I’m 40, passed away a few years later. But share me and Bette consequently will meet up at the same building in Las Vegas, playing at Caesar’s Palace. So you know where there’s a sketch in the show where we do an old folk folks home sketch. And lo and behold, here we are, 30 something years later. And they were all at the Caesar’s Palace playing slightly older. But, you know, still in the same place. So that that was a great thing to do. I loved that show so much.
Speaker So we have the footage and we’ll use it.
Speaker You know. You know, it’s a great show. It’s for now.
Speaker I just took it.
Speaker Yeah, I do. I don’t know what else I did, but I did. And I shared the time. She was probably the America’s top comedienne. She was definitely one of the top pop acts. She was an actress. You know, she was you know, there’s nothing that girl couldn’t do.
Speaker And she was David’s girlfriend. Yeah. Were you surprised?
Speaker So I was. Yeah. But, I mean, you know, I got married. People were most surprised about that. So I got married for six years. I and we both. We both had our affairs with women. And it’s I enjoyed my marriage to an art. And I’m glad I live with her. I’m so glad that David enjoyed his time with Cher, because until you spend time with women and I live with them on a personal basis, you don’t really get to know how they function and feel. So, I mean, I’ve I found my time in my marriage very valuable for me.
Speaker You were you. Did you actually hang out with David and Cher at all? I can imagine. Was hilarious together.
Speaker It was funny. Yeah. I mean, it was the odd couple. It really was Hollywood’s odd couple. It was some. There’s been a few couples and that’s definitely out there amongst them.
Speaker So just jumping forward. Am I right that you were there that night that David came out, 1982?
Speaker I don’t think that award. No, I wasn’t there. No.
Speaker Well, David was the first person I was on the phone to observe when John was shot. I was in Australia and I was on a plane going from Brisbane to Melbourne and I landed in Melbourne and we were told to stay on the plane. And we knew something had happened.
Speaker And that was one of the hardest things that I had to go through. And David was obviously very much thank God David was there in New York. Oh, I don’t know what would have happened because he was able to expedite things much quicker. Yoko and everybody. But that was. I done that. I was there when he came out.
Speaker He came out to me years ago. I didn’t I didn’t have to be at the official unveiling.
Speaker Did you know that he did you know officially?
Speaker Yeah, I think I was good for him. I mean, it’s but he’s been far better since then, I think. So it’s all good when you come out. I think, you know, it’s living a life of secrets is no good for anybody. And I think David’s always been comfortable with his sexuality. But it’s always nice to actually say, well, here I am. And it’s enabled him to do great things in his name with, you know, with charities and with the theatre and film and stuff like that. So, no, I was I was proud when he did that.
Speaker I mean, I think released a lot.
Speaker Yeah. And I you know, I’ve noticed the change in David. Now, I know David was a workaholic. I mean, David was the person to not become involved in records, but films and shows brought by shows, Dreamgirls, blah, blah, blah. I’m very successful. And he had a finger in every pie. And if I shoot forward to now when I see David and he’s, you know, Maurice retired, although he’s you know, I had breakfast with him the other day and now he’s still on the computer and he’s still on the phone. But I’ve seen an enormous change in David. I’ve seen one from a person who didn’t have the time to enjoy his access to someone now who’s spending, you know, like three months on a boat, which, you know, you’d say that said to me ten years ago that David Geffen would spend three months on a boat and I would laugh my head off. But he’s learnt to be at peace with the world. He’s he’s out of the film business. He didn’t like the film business. I still think he likes the music business because that’s that’s his first love, you know. That’s that’s David. David will always love music. But the film business drove him crazy. And, you know, there there are some idiots in the music business, but there are like triple up by five million. And then you got the film business. So I think he doesn’t miss that. He’s very happy within himself. He’s happy with his relationship, with his life. He’s enjoying his house. I remember when he bought the day the Jack Warner house, and he said, I’m not gonna live in it. And he had it done. And it’s so beautiful. And he’s like, I live at the beach now. He lives there. And it’s all because he’s so contented. It’s a different David. That’s far different, David, that I’m seeing now. And I’m much happier, David. And one who’s really at peace and calm. And I’m. I ever tell us how much. David, I’m so happy for you. This is what you’ve worked all your life for. And this is what you should be doing. And, you know, he’s he’s he’s deliriously happy.
Speaker And he has. And Jeremy is fantastic guy. And.
Speaker And you know that that is something in itself that David is isn’t a long term relationship with someone who’s now really loves him and vice versa. And he’s had relationships before. But I think at this time in his life, this is this is the one and David’s far more available for I mean, being a relationship with David Geffen was not going to be easy. It was not gonna be easy being interation with me years ago because I work him first. And so you came last. So that’s never gonna work. But now there is a you know, there’s a balance to David’s life and he’s loving it and that’s why he’s enjoying it. And I’m so happy for him. He’s got a smile on his face. He’s just nice, relaxed. He’s you know, it’s adorable to see him like this again.
Speaker Yeah. Still back in just a moment, please. We just got that. I’m going to ask you another Geffen Records one. We’re getting down 20 percent. So. So David just talked about this. This is not like off limits or anything, but just about the Neily on lawsuit rogering when because the only reason I ask you is because you were an artist on his label. And obviously that was kind of. I mean, you’re Elliot. We interviewed Eliot and he was like.
Speaker We were shocked, you know, about the fact that he that he brought this lawsuit against the oil for making non-commercial. And that was a real downer time. But where was that coming from? I mean, as an artist on the label, what were you thinking?
Speaker I didn’t understand.
Speaker I mean, I knew David and Neal went back so long and I didn’t understand what was going on that I didn’t get involved in it. But it’s very hard to understand. Knowing Neil was well, as I know, David and Neil is one of the nicest people in the whole world. I don’t understand where that came from. I don’t know if, David, if you had the chance to do things over again, whether he would have handled it differently. But I really didn’t get into it. I didn’t know. I just was trying to focus myself being at Geffen Records and staying afloat there, too.
Speaker Eventually, eventually left.
Speaker I eventually left and went to Universal. And it was fine.
Speaker It was my temper. I took down Johnny Balbus with me. So I inherited Johnny Babas from Geffen and Geffen Records, and he’s been with me now for 30 years, still still works for me and manages me in America. And so, you know, I know I still love David and I’m still with him and, you know, spiritually and with better friends now than we ever were.
Speaker He’s a one day, which is something we ask everybody. 40 interviews. David Geffen in three words.
Speaker Brillant. Sincere.
Speaker And neurotic.
Speaker OK, so I know you’re not expecting much on John Lennon’s watch. What is this for? I don’t even know. It’s.
Speaker So, look, you know, the series American Masters, we do these, you know, but and we try to do a pretty comprehensive job. This particular film, we’re focusing on John’s New York City years, but it’s basically 1970. Yoko is cooperating, but. Okay. It in the fall. It’s going to be a big anniversary. What’s his 17th birthday would have been? So what’s the big film?
Speaker We’re cooperating with her, I hope. OK.
Speaker So do you remember when you might have met him with a friend of Michael, Tony King, who was working for John and John was out here in L.A. actually making the rock and roll arm as Phil Spector was a crazy time. And John was doing a video and I think Tony was playing the queen and one of them dressed as the queen. So that’s when I’m first met him. And I liked him immediately because of Tony’s friendship with John and his working relationship with John. I got to meet him more and loved every minute of it. I mean, I can only say every minute that I ever spent with John, I treasure.
Speaker And I was like, oh, my God, this is John.
Speaker Of course. You kidding me? It was like I was. But he was so great at putting people at ease for me. He put me at ease straight away because of his humor. It’s like the Liverpudlian humor. George was the same, pulls the same. Ringo’s incredibly funny Liverpudlian humor just put me at ease so quickly.
Speaker And, you know, we just hit it off. You know, I was the big cheese at that time.
Speaker And John was just enjoying his life and getting on making records. And we had a relationship for about two years. As far as, you know, seeing each other hanging out. And it was two years that can never be taken away. And I treasure that time together. And he was incredibly kind to me. And he took my parents out to dinner. And we went out to dinner together. He used to take my band to go my band to the airport. I mean, he came on stage was nothing for the first time in years and years at Madison Square Garden when whatever gets to him, whatever gets you through the night had been a number one record. And that was our deal. If if I sang on the record he played on the record, he would come on stage. If he got to number one and it did.
Speaker And he came on stage at Madison Square Garden after being physically sick in the toilets beforehand and came on to the greatest ovation I’ve ever heard of anybody in my whole life, I it makes me very emotional when I think about it. Even now I get goose bumps every time I talk about this. But for ten minutes, the New Yorkers stood up and, you know, the the floor at Madison Square Garden is sprung and it bounces. And it was I think he was overwhelmed. I was totally overwhelmed by him. I’d never seen an outpouring of love like that for anybody at that particular time in my life. And we did three songs together. Yoko came at night and gave him, I think, a magnet, not a magnolia. What do they call a gardenia? Give me a gardenia. We went afterwards to the Pier Hotel and there was I always remember that because I was sitting with my manager, John Reid and John and Yoko and or Uri Geller was there bending spoons and forks and withdrawing stuff. And it was it was a really happy, wonderful night. I think he was happy. I don’t know. I’ve never talked to him about it cause but I think for Tim, it was reaffirming of his right decision to stay in New York. And wow, maybe I should get out here a little bit more, you know, maybe I should do a little bit more shipment, more shows, because this was something that was so moving and it was all about him as a human being and him as a musician. Now, he’d only done the the peace concert in Toronto before that. So, I mean, it was a big deal for him to do that.
Speaker Why did you make this?
Speaker Well, Tony was very much a catalyst in this Tony King, because we know it’s like he’s like, come on. If he plays on record and gets number one, you’ve got to go on stage. All right. So he came up to Boston to see the show. And I was at that time wearing things that would make Lady Gaga blush. I think I mean, a little a of like a bikini swimsuit made out of a chocolate box. I thought. And stop. John Scott. Oh, my God. Is this what it is now? But, John, it really lost touch with sound systems and light shows and whatever. I never went to shows. And so he said yes. And it was thank God he did, because I have that memory.
Speaker New York has that memory for people who were there. And it got him back with Yoko. What was that was like his hit list. She came to that show and it was that was it. And I’d you know, I’d I’d been hanging out with him and May. And, you know, I didn’t know that Yoko was gonna be there. And it was a. Rise and whether he invites, you know, I don’t know. But there she was. And that was it. John was back with Yoko and Sean was born. And it was a wonderful end to that point to two to a great love story.
Speaker Did you after you then got back touch with them?
Speaker I let them be.
Speaker I went to see them at the apartment. And I enjoyed it. And, you know, I let them be. They were just so delirious to be back together again. It’s kind of like, you know, you’re so happy. I’m giving you the private space you want. And I didn’t really see much of them now.
Speaker Well, John sort of became a dad. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know.
Speaker It’s like you don’t have to be friends by finding every each other up every day. I mean, that friendship to me was the fact that they made me Sean’s godfather. And I’ve become so touched. And so it was like I had something to do with him coming back together. And it was something I’m so proud of and so happy that that happened for him.
Speaker Good for you. Can you imagine there’s a beautiful concert footage.
Speaker Yeah. Can’t remember. No.
Speaker I do so many concerts. I know. I don’t. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1984. Meeting in concert in Central Park. In fact, it was a very, very you.
Speaker Oh is that the one I did other with the Donald Duck outfit. And I sang Imagine. Yeah. Well, that was because John lived in Central Park. That’s probably why I wanted to do something. I. I’ve forgotten this is good. Could you bring this up is good for me because I don’t remember half these things we didn’t imagine I set for quite a while because, you know, John still stays with you even to this day.
Speaker He’s like, there’s a wonderful film out in England by a friend of mine called Nowhere Boy. By Sam Taylor. I dunno if you’ve seen it. Have you seen it yet? No, you will. Yoko is so in love with it, and quite rightly so. It’s a wonderful story about him. Me, me and Julia. So nice. Still stays with me, sis. How could you? He’s one of the most incredible people I’ve ever met. And one of the most vibrant, kindest, funny. I never experienced the nasty side of John Lennon ever. You know that. You know, John could turn and, you know, I had that the ability to turn nasty. And I think all artists do that. But I never did that with me. In fact, we had so much laughter between the two of us. In the two years that we hung out and made music and he came and sang on my record. And what was that experience like?
Speaker When he asked you to do whatever, it was terrifying.
Speaker I mean, he’d already done the track. And Jimmy Ivin, who’s now head of Interscope Records, was the engineer. But one of the engineers and I had to play piano, which wasn’t so difficult. But then singing with him. Everyone’s got their own way of phrasing stuff. And it was that was hard. I was singing to his. His phrasing. I did another track as well. And that I was very nervous.
Speaker Barinov Not about the piano so much because that’s what I do, but singing with John. This was, you know, was tough and but it was great fun. God, I can’t take that away from me. I played on a Bob Dylan record and I sang with John Lennon. You know.
Speaker No.
Speaker Okay. I don’t have much more. I’ve got one more question.
Speaker I said one more thing. So a quote from The New York Times, December eight, 1980.
Speaker John mine, one of four vehicles was shot and killed last night while entering the apartment building where he lives. The Dakota on Manhattan’s Upper West Side.
Speaker With my band, we arranged a memorial service service in Melbourne at the cathedral. The exact time of his funeral in America, in New York. It was something I wanted to do. We all sang it. It was it was one of those things that you could not believe what you were hearing. I was very, very alarming. Very upsetting. And there was a lot of people in that church that God knows what time of day it was at night or whatever, but we timed it that it would be exactly the same time as the funeral service in New York. It was something I’ve never done for anybody else. I just felt it was the right thing to do. I didn’t know. John wasn’t particularly religious, but I just wanted it’s a norm. I just wanted to go into a church and sing the twenty third psalm. Pray, pray, pray for him. Get send our love to him. And it was so sad. Kardos was overwhelmed with grief.
Speaker Did you speak to Yoko? Yeah. I mean, it was tough. I mean, what do you say? There’s nothing you can say. Was with her. I know. I didn’t think of it.
Speaker David tells a story that he tells the story that when he went to the hospital first I thought it was a crank call. Well, they first called him up. He was a hotel. They called him up and then they called back a minute later. And it was a friend of Yoko’s. It said, get over here, you know? And he went to the hospital, to Roosevelt Hospital. And they went into the doctor, came to him and said, you have to go in and tell her.
Speaker To David and David, so I can.
Speaker It was thinking about it now, I just can’t believe the shock when we were on the plane and told to stay there. And then the news, you couldn’t comprehend it. I was sort of like when I left, my grandmother was, you know, getting up in there either. Maybe my every time I left home, I thought, oh, my grandma, I hope I’m going to see her again. And, you know, that was the last thing I thought. And, you know. We live in strange times. We still do. And I’ve had a lot of people who I know murdered in their problems, shot outside their home, Gianni Versace. That happened to me was my best friend. A friend of mine was murdered in his apartment in Monte Carlo. Friend of mine was battered to death in her apartment in New York. I lost Princess Diana in a car crash. It’s been very strange life I’ve had as far as losing people to violent circumstances. You never, ever expected and never can believe it.
