Speaker I was actually on vacation in Colorado when the parolee shoot first came about and requested it Dick’s office tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. and look good. I was just told pretty much that I was doing the Pirelli calendar. I was up for the Pirelli calendar. I had no clue what it was. I had no clue who Richard Avedon. I was really clueless. But I should be there the next morning.
Speaker So I get on a plane, come back, wake up, get dressed up to 70s, the street.
Speaker I think it lives and walk in the door and Dick standing there and I had no clue. That was a day. And at that point, I was very nervous after I had seen a little bit of his work prior to that, after I was told about him in the job and became quite frightened of the whole idea of shooting with someone with such prestige in the business and felt very honored, but would have been extremely disappointed if I hadn’t walked out of there with the job.
Speaker I went in and said, oh, you must be.
Speaker Mm.
Speaker I’m fair. It’s nice to meet you. And you sat down on the sofa and dune and Dick informed me of somewhat of what was gonna be happening. It was probably tya calendar and it’s going to be Naomi Campbell and Christy Turlington and myself. And it was going to include nudity of the breasts, which I had known prior to that. But then it also became complete nudity. And I was very I mean, I’m a little girl from Colorado, so I was very. I’m not so sure about that, and I’m just kind of sat down and kind of tried to ease my way through it.
Speaker Wasn’t so.
Speaker And then he wanted to do some Polaroids to kind of give him an eye, an idea of what we were gonna be doing that day. We went in and put on my bathrobe, not with it, an end of the studio and did the one, two, three. Drop the robe thing. And managed to get the robe off and did some pictures. And they came out actually quite beautiful.
Speaker Very rob it. Quite beautiful. And was hired.
Speaker Let me ask you just back talk about this concept of this calendar, something beautiful or strange, or is there an and the idea was the seasons to carry nature throughout the calendar by interpreting it through women.
Speaker I think that we were trying to get away from last year’s calendar of sex where a lot in this calendar there’s a lot more nudity than actually the year before.
Speaker But it’s so understated that it’s much more beautiful, which is actually very surprising. The concept was just interpreting women, interpreting the seasons through women. And I think that that was. The key throughout the whole thing is trying to get feeling and emotion, using props and the model to express the actual season, the special things about the seasons and sometimes the bad things.
Speaker This season. Would you give it a shot? I was spring.
Speaker I was the new little chicken that just arrived.
Speaker I think that I was supposed to be new and unaware of anything extremely naive, looking very happy.
Speaker But at the same time, very frightened and kind of scared and very. Unaware. And the ideas for that were being covered in gasoline from head to toe and rolling in grass with snakes crawling on Menagh, Dragonfly on my hip and vines growing from my buttocks up around my neck is kind of the new thing. When picture I had supposedly just eaten a bird had just gotten the nest and eat it, kind of the savage had egg yolks dripping down my arms and. Was I think I was chosen because no one knows who I am. That was. That was Dick’s reasoning behind it, because Bridget Hall was actually supposed to have my job to Perelli wanted to do it because it’s actually a very prestigious calendar and I have none. That’s why he wanted me, because I had none. And I was supposed to be spring. And why put someone with such a name as spring when it’s supposed to be something new? So I think that I really inspired him by being something new and being something that no one had seen. It’s kind of like being transplanted to another world.
Speaker Jim standing there and he says, OK. Do you know? Close your mouth. Open your mouth. Get your position. We need Sam on our arm, please. And all of a sudden something comes out and you have no clue where.
Speaker And I couldn’t find an adjective to describe this. If I tried. It’s just I think it’s very actually me.
Speaker Whereas most things I mean, they spread you out in some terrible high heels with, you know, entirely too much makeup on and shoved you on a set and say, OK, look like a demon or a devar, you know, little devil, little sexpot. And it wasn’t it wasn’t presented to me like that. It was. Look how you think the pictures should be done most. I mean, that was never said there was minor direction in it, but it was almost directed. I think the emotion more by myself than by Dick.
Speaker Say what special Raptor would, after giving space to giving you.
Speaker I think that he gives you indirection a lot of space.
Speaker Until you mess up, he’ll give you that space until he sees something he doesn’t like, come out of that space. And then the direction takes hold. When you’re doing a picture and he doesn’t, you smile. He doesn’t want to smile. Then it comes out. Don’t smile. I don’t need a smile in the shot, please. No smiles. Stick to what you were doing before it was better. And I think that think that the direction starts. I think it’s more on a mental level than actually ever being said. I think you just kind of have a mental connection. At least I did immediately with Dick. I just had an idea of what he wanted for me and really went for that. I was supposed to be, you know, just born. I just had shot of my egg. I was new. I’d rolled around in the grass naked. I didn’t know what I was doing, but I was here and I was kind of excited but fearful at the same time, I think I mean, that was the basis for it. But when I held it, it turned into something else. I think it turned into something more real, more tangible and. I think other people can understand it a lot better than if I had gone. Like, I’d just really come up and, you know, come to this world. I was like, you know, wide eyed and bushy tailed. And I think there was a lot more to it. I would think that it show a lot of apprehension to this new world and not quite sure, you know, of what’s going on. Instead of being so thrilled to be here.
Speaker So what is unique about the Extoll directions?
Speaker Is it a group?
Speaker OK. I think that Dick Style Direxion with me was very unique because he really catered to me. He really made an effort because I was 16 and because I had never done nudes. He was very shy about the whole thing and didn’t quite know what to do. I think that he kind of left it and he really helped me out by just saying, OK, you know, this is it. You know what you need to do? Do it. And I think that more his direction with the people other than me helped me out more than what he actually said to me. There are a lot of problems in the studio with them filming me when I was getting makeup put on my breasts, things like that that are totally unnecessary and are just not right. When you’re 16, it’s it’s not necessary. That’s me. I mean, getting put makeup, you know. That’s me being on set. That’s not me. That’s a pretty face and a beautiful smile or a great body. That’s not my soul. And on a day to day basis, that is me. And when I’m not on that little box doing my pose, that’s me. And I think that he really respected that had a real go that day. And he totally agreed with me.
Speaker Protected that protection.
Speaker I think that Dick was really protective of me from the beginning. I think that he kind of saw that I was a new girl in New York and really didn’t know where I was going and didn’t know what I was doing here. Straight out of Colorado, which is not New York City by any means. And I think that he really saw that from day one and just kind of took me under his wing, so to speak, and said, OK, she’s mine now and no one’s gonna hurt her and no one’s going to make her feel violated during this whole thing. And although he was, you know, the one that took the picture, he was also the savior of the day. I think when I was standing up there, if I had said, you know what, I feel really uncomfortable nude, I think everyone in the studio also needs to undress. It would have been an order out of his mouth. I think that’s been that was his approach to me almost. He was very I was very delicate for me. And I think that he really made that possible. And at the end of the shoot, we had a great meal after, you know, he gave me my 17th birthday party. I mean, he really he really made an effort to become more than a photographer, whereas most don’t. Most of it. Thank you very much. You know your great bye. Maybe I’ll see you again. And Dick really stuck by me. You know, he really did. You know, my family comes to town and I, you know, probably is not out yet. So when my family comes to town, we have been tracked. Studio and are happy. A little cowboy boots and a dick. Can we see the Pirelli pictures? You know, and if he’s there, he’s more you know, he’s more than happy to show everyone him. And he really holds a special place in me because he just came into my life at the right time and said the right things.
Speaker Very good. I think he does that with everyone modeling. I don’t. I just see modeling is I guess my way of looking at it is down the road, because for me, it’s like something that I can’t quite reach.
Speaker But if I want it, I can lean over a little bit and grab it. And I like being a supermodel or whatever that word means is very close for me. But I don’t it’s something that I look at the big models and I see them not having a family. And Stephanie traveling all over the world, having her children at home, you know, and not being able to go with her.
Speaker And for me, I don’t want that.
Speaker Know, I want to be home with my children everyday and see that first step and be there. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing for them not to be there. It’s their decision. It’s just what I want. And I think that in this business, if you stay in it long enough, you’ll end up marrying a rock star or a fashion photographer or something like that and never really going beyond the model. I think that you lose touch with the real world. You see girls come in from Kansas every day wearing jeans and some Beatle up old t shirt and a pair of sneakers. And if you see them in a year, they’re wearing, you know, the latest Versace, you know, little leopard print skirt with some types and some four inch platform, you know, and I think that I really try to keep myself connected to the real world because the world isn’t modeling. In fact, it is completely unnecessary, I think. I mean, it’s really not necessary. People are going to buy clothes, whether there’s a beautiful girl in them or not. It may help having a pretty face, but it’s not necessary.
Speaker Dick’s great themes in his photographs. He talks about great deals, the isolation that comes.
Speaker It’s very true.
Speaker I think that isolation definitely comes through beauty. For me, I definitely think so just because I’m 17.
Speaker And I think that people are very taken back by me and don’t quite understand me and are very intimidated and never quite go that extra step to say, let’s really get to know her and see what she’s like. And I think that that comes with everyone. I mean, men are intimidated of you. Women are jealous of you. That’s all there is.
Speaker You’re really left with a lot of nothing and you’re left with your family and your dog.
Speaker And I think that that’s definitely true. It’s very hard to keep. It’s very hard to keep. I woke up three months ago and decided that I wanted to be five hundred pounds and have nappy brown hair. And like, when I’m missing, you know, because it’s very difficult. I mean, even, you know, it sounds ridiculous. I mean, other girls would watch this. Oh, God, I’d die if I was, you know, a model. You know what? It’s not great. You know, we all have our problems. I think my my nose is the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen in the whole wide world. And my sister and I, we have the same nose. I was sitting on the subway. We were looking at this woman. And we’re like, there’s something wrong with her. But what is it? It turned nose and then to exactly like ours.
Speaker And that’s, you know, I mean, I definitely, definitely think that, you know, you definitely become very lonely.
Speaker I think Dick likes me because I’m a real person. And I think that he knows where I’m coming. You don’t have to talk to Dick. He’s like the grandfather. Who knows? Like the wise old man, I guess, is the way to put it. He just he can’t. He has that sense about things.
Speaker And he thinks he treasures me because I am a real person, because I don’t care. And that’s basically my philosophy. No modelling doesn’t work out for me. I’m 17 years old. I have my whole life ahead of me, you know, and if one photographer, you know, decides that he wants to spread vicious rumors about me, you know what? Who cares? It really doesn’t matter because I’m 17 and I can go to college and become, you know, the best stockbroker in the world or the best architect in the world. That’s I think that’s why he likes me, is because he knows that I don’t have to clean to this. I’m not starving for it. And I think a lot of photographers respect me for that because I don’t care. And I mean, it might be a very bad blasphemed, but I think it keeps me it keeps me going in it because I have the room to state my opinion.
Speaker And if they don’t like it. Oh, well.
Speaker He the dangers of.
Speaker I think the most that Dick said to me about that type of thing is to stay yourself and to remain a real person.
Speaker You had a talk with Dune Norman one about that and then just said, stay.
Speaker You don’t change. Don’t let this business change you. I told him I was far too stubborn. That’s very true.
Speaker Talk to me a little bit about your response as a model to this stuff. Stephanie Seymour portrait, describe it for us. Is this because it’s not here right now and you have a very strong suit?
Speaker Favorite. My favorite photo I’ve ever seen. Um.
Speaker It’s the 70 Seemore portrait is incredible to me because it is just for.
Speaker OK.
Speaker OK. Stephanie Seymour, portrait of her lifting her dress, exposing her so extremely strong to me with a black transparent sewn in her legs crossed is extremely strong to me because it’s her me personification. I mean, she’s not Stephanie Seymour. She looks like a cat. I mean, she is so seductive and mysterious and overwhelming in that portrait. It just. It really shows. It really shows a strong woman. And you can definitely tell that that, you know, Stephanie Seymour is a strong woman by looking at that show. So much confidence and power. And I mean, because it’s not just, you know, that her crotch is exposed. She’s exposing it. She’s saying, well, if you don’t want to see it, you get to because I’m showing you. And that’s really it’s an incredible thing to me because women are so mean. They’re so well, you know, it’s mine and, you know, they’re so meticulous. And she she just has this attitude of, you know what. Huh.
Speaker You know, I mean, it’s it’s very. Know, and I think that some people look at that as pornography, but it’s not by any means. You can do a much worse picture with no, quote, you know, fully clothed.
Speaker I think patience is the biggest key remodeling. Let’s talk about the craft, his craft.
Speaker I think the craft of modeling is actually very difficult and involves a lot of patience. And it just it’s hard work. You’re very isolated. You’re traveling all the time. When you get to this shoot, you have three hours of hair and makeup, which you really don’t want people touching your face at seven o’clock in the morning. You finally get on set at 11:00. The lights aren’t right. You sit down, you back up. It’s just a lot of doing nothing. And then you finally do what you get to do and it takes two minutes or it takes seven hours. And you can’t get it right because someone made the mistake of taking a Polaroid and wanting to duplicate a Polaroid. It’s not possible. You can’t duplicate a Polaroid. I’ve tried for hours upon hours before, and it’s not possible. And it’s just it’s one of the things that I think the hardest part for me is patience, because I can pose. I can stand. I can I mean, I can stand in a position that the human body can stand for hours just because I’ve gotten used to it. But I think that the patients I really have none in the lighting and the hair and makeup and everything. It kills me. By the time you get home, you just you don’t want to talk to anyone because you have people playing with you.
Speaker Said he just got back. That’s a really great models, for the most part, made by great photographers. Definitely.
Speaker The models are definitely made by the great photographers. Um, I’ve had so much help on my way up. Um. I wouldn’t you know, just a little girl arrived in New York my first day, I shot with Patrick to Marché. And it just got better from there. For me, it was very easy and and there’s a lot of struggles, but they definitely do make it because everyone looks up to them. And if they find a new little toy to play with, then everyone wants that little toy. And that’s what the modeling business is about. If someone great wants you, then of course, everyone else wants you to. And that’s what makes a girl’s career. Everyone wants you all at once. You’ve got some money and, you know, calm down a little bit, then you’ll do something else with somebody else. That’s supposed to be incredible. And then everyone wants to again. And eventually you will become the new Christy Turlington, Naomi Campbell’s caliber of model. They definitely make you they help you so much just by putting their name on a photograph.
Speaker I’m sure there’s a lot of talk among models as to what each photographer can or cannot do with what their signature is or. Mm hmm. There’s a lot of talk of delicate doesn’t table. What is the talk about dick models and what would be possible if he could tell them models? Actually, I actually don’t know.
Speaker No one I’ve ever met. None of my close modeling friends have ever worked with Dick. And I don’t know any of the big girls, so I don’t know actually anyone had their picture taken by Dick personally, so I can’t really answer that.
Speaker But it was a different experience working with Dick than all the other photographers. Oh, definitely. Just once again, the last question is, do we go over that again?
Speaker And the experience with Dick is one of. Family. He really makes it a family effort. Everyone I mean, everyone is really in there to do an amazing picture, whereas somebody places they don’t care if you get along with everyone else. It really doesn’t matter. And he really made an effort for everyone to get to know each other, to remain, you know, together after the shoot. I mean, they added the stylist and I did a shoot in, you know, two days after work, after, you know, the job with DEC because we got along so great. I’ve seen the hairdresser numerous times. And I mean, he took us all out to a great dinner on him after Perella. I mean, that was the. No other photographers to do this. And they don’t care. They got their picture and that’s what they’re after. And he’s not after picture. He’s after the emotion of it. He’s, you know, the realness of it. And to know that that picture came from somewhere and wasn’t just like a freak, a little tangent in someone’s mind. He wants to know that that was it’s real and that he really tried and that everyone really tried.
