Ronald Neame: Mark Colvin. Well, the studio is rather like a small airplane hangar with corrugated. And like a big shed really. And that Elstree studios was divided down the center. It was divided into half. And on one half, there were three pictures being made. And I was on I got a wonderful job as a messenger boy. Gopher, you’d call him a gopher on this picture. And of course, there was no soundproofing because they were silent films. We we turned the handle in those days. There was no motor. We even had an upside down viewfinder. So when you look through the viewfinder, the picture was upside down. That’s how primitive, primitive it was. Now, there were three pictures on the other side. There was a very, very important film being made which occupied the whole length, occupied the space that these three pictures occupied. And this picture was called the farmer’s wife and was forbidden. We were not allowed to go on that set. It was a locked set. However, one day about about the second day there, I was sent on an errand of some kind and I slipped onto that set and I could see all kinds of farmyard sets and and farm buildings and tractors and things. And I could see light at the far end. So I went towards the far end and there was the boy genius. Twenty eight year old Alfred Hitchcock, who was even then somewhat on the plump side. And I remember standing there and watching this man at work. And young as I was, I was 16. I think you couldn’t help but be immediately impressed. The authority, the at ease that he had, the way he so was so completely in charge of everything. And. I also met and introduced myself to the cameraman, Jack Cox, who is Hitchcock’s camera man on all those early pictures. And then. By sheer piece of good luck. A year later, I found myself actually working on a film with this great man.
Interviewer: Right before we get there, I just want to get some sense from you. This story sort of gives me a hint of that. What was Hitchcock’s place? A British international sort of. Was he considered an important director? Was he treated well by Hitchcock?
Ronald Neame: Hitchock had complete autonomy on his own pictures. He wrote them for the most part, although he had writers helping him. He was, in fact, his own producer. There was a Scotsman called Maxwell who sort of gave him that position in a way, but nobody interfered in any way, shape or form with Hitchcock. He was the king of the castle in those days at Elstree.
Interviewer: And how did that work in terms of then how resources were allocated in terms of what you saw, just in terms of the way the studio was even set up? Well, we’re going to hope for the play. Just to give you an opportunity again to to to talk about that first day when you did this very nicely. The idea. Just just. And we can wait and do it another role if you’d rather not have it. Just sort of, you know. Yes. Get go on with it, just love the idea of, you know, you walking in and you’re 16 years old and you’re on the set. Telstra is divided this way. And there’s just two that, you know, you can ease your way into was a lovely little bit.
Speaker You want me to tell it again? You mean it in a way that you feel comfortable again. You know the whole thing from the beginning. But without, you know, with sort of with less. I think less embellishments just, you know, sort of as you saw it at that time and, you know, without without turning to it, without turning Hitchcock into an Orson Welles figure quite, quite yet. Do you know does that is that or that unless you saw. No. No. I mean, I was I was a vet. Oh. Seeing this man at work. But right now. OK. OK, folks. It’s hard to watch a squeaky chair my chair. Much, much more to. Run that, you know, you paint this beautiful picture of Hitchcock as a man, really, where he isn’t being told what to do, find his producer. And how does that then manifest himself itself and how he is just sort of allocated resources? And how much more does Hitchcock fit into the.
Ronald Neame: Well, is he? Well, as I’ve told you, there were four films being made there. One was starring Madeleine Carrolls. Remember her? One was starring a very important actress girl, Betty Balfour, a mother starring Jack Buchanan. That was the one I was working on. Well, very important people at the time. But the important picture, the picture that everybody felt was the picture was the one that occupied the space of all the three other films. And that was Alfred Hitchcock with who was considered to be the boy genius. He had already made, of course, the larger. And he came to Elstree with a with a big reputation for those days. And he got whatever he wanted. I imagine that he had to keep within a budget of some kind. I’m sure there was a production department. There were there were watching there. But I at age 16, was not aware of any of that as far as I was concerned. Here was the man of the day, and I never talked to him at that time. I mean, I just watched him. And one could see, even at my age, I could see just how much in charge and in control this man was.
Interviewer: So when you get to work. How old were you? What was your what was your job like for you?
Ronald Neame: Well, after I’d been in the studio about six months, seven months, I became an assistant cameraman, a focus puller, you know, not the absolute dog’s body on the camera department, but very nearly. And. I was offered the chance of being on blackmail, which was a silent film, also being directed by Hitchcock and was obviously the most important production, again being made in the studio because it was a Hitchcock picture. And so I found myself working for this great man on the camera. Now jumping ahead 50 of 60 years. When I met Hitchcock at the end of his life, I said, Do you remember me? Hitch Ronnie. Name is Ronnie. You were one of my boys and I was one of his boys. He can’t very much about the young people that worked for him. And, well, I knew him all his life.
Interviewer: We had a great picture. Cracking.
Ronald Neame: Well, you see, that’s the first job you learn in a studio is how to turn a camera. Sixteen pictures a second. I can still do that today. And that. It was only when sound came in, which we haven’t got to yet, that we had motors that turned the camera.
Interviewer: How long before we get to the intricacies of the fact that it was a silent picture that was turned into an all those difficulties? What kind of asset was it? Was it was it was.
Ronald Neame: It was congenial because Hitchcock enjoyed practical jokes. He really enjoyed making fun, really of members of the unit. And he had one particular fellow on this unit, young prop man called Harry. And Harry was a sort of unit clown, really. He was there for Hitchcock’s enjoyment. And Hitchcock used to play jokes on this young prop man all the time. And in fact, they were somewhat sadistic. Hitchcock’s joke. He had he had a rather sadistic sense of humor. I must admit, I’m not always very kind. But we accepted it because that was Hitchcock’s way of enjoying himself. For example, we had in Blackmail’s, there’s a tobacconist’s shop and there’s a flame for lighting cigars on the counter. And one day I saw a hitch with a pair of pliers heating up a half crown, which is a big coin in those days, like a dollar. And he was heating this up and I saw him at a moment, sort of drop it onto the floor. This half crown. And then a second later he’d say, Harry, there’s some money on the floor there. Pick it up. William and Harry would come over and pick up this white hot half crown and squeal, jump and drop it and so on. Now, that was Hitchcocks or have been enjoying himself. And there were many of those kind of jokes that he played on the set. He didn’t like people playing jokes on him, by the way. He he liked to make the jokes. But, you know, that is only a very small part of him. Yes. Do you think hearing you I mean, you know, Harry was. Absolutely. He knew exactly all about it.
Interviewer: That’s a really raw deal. That was. Do you think Harry had a sense I mean, you saw his hitting here? No, this was.
Ronald Neame: Harry new. Harry played the game. He he did very well. Hitchcock wouldn’t make a picture without Harry. Harry knew exactly how to be on a Hitchcock picture because Harry knew how to respond to hitches, practical jokes. And there is one occasion, for example, where we had we had handcuffs on this set. It was, you know, blackmail was about criminals and things. And we had handcuffs. And Hitchcock one day said, Harry, I’m going to make a bet with you. And if you win, gonna give you a nice and a couple of quid or something like that. And I said, What’s that guy? What’s that? What’s the bet? He said, Well, you see these handcuffs, Harry? I’m going to put them on you now. And if you’re still wearing them tomorrow morning. I will then consider that you won the bet because I don’t think you will be still wearing tomorrow morning. I said or I I’ll try. And so the hat, the handcuffs were put on. And Hitchcock, of course, immediately pocketed the key. So there was no question of Harry being able to get out of it, even if he wanted to. And the story goes and how true it is, I don’t know. The story goes that a laxative was put into Harry’s cup of tea. As you know, we drink tea all the time, a British says, and Harry drank his team, went home and he had a pretty bad tummy that night. But he came in the next morning. With the handcuffs on as bright as a button, and when asked how he’d managed to cope with it all, he said, Well, my wife gave me a hand. My wife took care of me and it wasn’t all that easy. But here I am. And the hitch said, you won the bet. Well done, Harry. And that was that went on all the way through the film. I mean, whenever Hitch felt like relax. And that was his way of relaxing. But, you know, Hitch was. Even in those days, he was what he became later. He was in many ways an introvert in many ways, but not somebody that you could have very easy conversations with. I mean, much later in life, I was when he asked me to dinner once when I was here. He liked to be at the head of the table. He liked to be in in charge of everything, but not the easiest person to talk to.
Interviewer: I would have said a very private person. Did you know him private? It’s private.
Ronald Neame: I didn’t know anything about his private life. No, not at any point. Except at the very end of his life, which we’ll come to later. No, I end. And you have to remember, I was a very, very young man. I was one of the most junior people on the unit. I was not a part of your work. And I wasn’t on the set at all at that time. I didn’t meet Alma at that time. But you see, the whole film making in those days was so different. To start off with, we would get in the studio at 8:00 in the morning. We’d work right through the day until about seven thirty at night at seven thirty. Hitchcock would say, OK, we’ll break for an hour. Hitchcock would then with his cast, with his actors and with Jack Cox’s camera man, he would go by cars to a pub in Elstree, which is about two miles away. That served wonderful food. Hitch loved good food and he would sit down and have dinner with his cast and probably it would be an hour and a half before he’d be back at the studio. Now we wee junior chaps on the unit, we were given one and sixpence to buy a sandwich. So we would go to our local pub just opposite the studio, which didn’t have food, and we would eat our sandwich and drink a glass of beer. And then at around about eight thirty, Hitch would come back and we’d start shooting again. And we go on perhaps till eleven, twelve, twelve thirty. Of course there were no more trains to take us home. So they had to send us home, my car and we were sent home by car. And the next morning we were back on the set at eight o’clock and that was the working day with no overtime, nothing like that. But Hitchcock, that was the way Hitchcock like to work.
Interviewer: What kind of we have his family with. And I guess the first question is, how did that how do we how did you come to shoot?
Ronald Neame: Well, it Hitchcock obviously trusted me. I can’t think why, because he really didn’t know me very well. But he said, Ronnie, I want you to take this 16 millimeter camera and I want you to shoot any of the film that you think is interesting. And I remember shooting the murder scene from behind the curtain, which is which is not shown on the screen in the film, but it’s the backstage bit. And I’m not sure how good I was. I was just a focus puller. I never really handled a camera, but I did take a few of those shots and then later he took the camera. So I think it was probably one of the very, very early sixteen millimeter cameras.
Interviewer: You look at this, those things that you shot, that you get a sense of a quite good kid.
Ronald Neame: Well, he was playing a part. You see that at that at that time when he was with several Richards, you know, and showing any Andre how he should sheesha kids, he was really, in fact, being an actor. But that was not the sort of Hitchcock that was normally on the set. I mean, he wasn’t like that. That was as he was doing that for a special occasion. He was hamming it. He was having himself up because he, you know. And he was a part of him that rather liked to be in front of a camera. I mean, as you well know, he played a little cameo in every one of his films and he played one in black now. But the interesting thing about black men really is that it was a silent film. It relied entirely on visuals, not on dialogue. And if you remember, or rather you’re too young to remember, but I remember that in those days a good film was judged by how few subtitles you had to have. If you see a Charlie Chaplin silent movie, there are very few captions because the whole story is told beautifully visually. Now, that was Hitchcock’s strength. One of his strengths and. It because the film was silent. He could use that visual ability to the full.
Interviewer: And actually it’s one of the reasons why a lawyer with such a stand up was it? I mean, that the British films did have a lot of titles and the Lifebook more German. It had fewer titles.
Ronald Neame: Yes. I mean, Hitchcock knew how to tell an audience. Visibly, things of great importance. He was brilliant with the camera. I mean, if you think much, much later, there is the film where there’s poison in the in the. Is it in the glass? Yes. And the way he used that glass of poison, it featured in every shot. It was always there in the foreground. Large. And you couldn’t help but look at it. And you knew there was poison in it.
Interviewer: When I want to move on, because it’s such an important for me, especially reason really why we’re here this morning. Like it was it was like always, you know, how did you get shot? What were it?
Ronald Neame: Well, blackmail was a silent film. I think I jonge it about halfway through. And it was made a complete silent film. It was completely silent. And indeed, as you read, there is a silent version, which I think is better than the sound version. Now, when we were about halfway through shooting the film, sound suddenly happened. The jazz singer, I think, was over here. Suddenly, everybody said it’s going to be sound for movies, are going to talk pictures in a talk. And a lot of people say, oh, this is this is just a flash in the pan. Who wants sound? It’s a visual art. This will come and go just like these 3D films where you have to wear glasses, where a lot of people that felt that. But there were others who thought, now this is a breakthrough. This is really going to change the industry. And Hitchcock was always willing to try anything new. And it was decided, obviously, I wasn’t part of it because, as I said, I was a junior assistant. But it was decided that to try since blackmail had been a play to remake a part of it, using as much of the silent version as we could to remake parts of it with sound timing.
Interviewer: That’s. What the decision is made to go to talking picture, what’s the first problem that has to do with?
Ronald Neame: Well, the first problem with sound itself, which caused a lot of headaches, as you can imagine, because the camera was very, very noisy. And if we just didn’t do anything about it at all. But one of the problems that might have stopped it being a sound picture at all.
Interviewer: Speaking of which. Comes in. I just roll out. Well. Jeanne. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s just what happens? That’s the only. Good, the Quemoy three different. OK. Right. That’s what technical problems did you have with the leading lady once the decision was made to give?
Ronald Neame: Well, any Andrew is a check. Right. Her English was very, very poor. But since he was a silent film, it didn’t matter. But she was supposed to be a London girl, a little London girl. And so when it was decided to make sound sequences, we immediately were in trouble. We could not recast any ENDRE because we were going to use three quarters of the sound film. But Annie Endre could not speak English. And there was no such thing as dubbing. I mean, that had not been invented. There was sound on the film on the set. And that was it. And Hitchcock, typical Hitchcock solved the problem very easily. We engaged another actress called Wendy Barrie, and she worked with Andy Ondra, and they used to work in the evenings together. And when it came to shooting, Wendy Barrie would stand on the side of the set.
Interviewer: What what becomes the problem with the leading lady once you make the decision to go to south?
Ronald Neame: Well, as you know, any order was a check and her English was very, very poor. And in the silent version, it didn’t matter because it was silent. But since we began to use at least three quarters of the silent version in the sound version that we made, we couldn’t recast any older. And the question was, well, perhaps we can’t even make this into a sound film. But Hitch overcame the problem. In a typical Hitchcock manner, he engaged another actress called Wendy Barry, who is as British as anything could be. And she worked with any ondra. And when it came to shooting, Wendy Barry would stand on the side of the set with a microphone and any endre would mouth the lines. She. She couldn’t speak them loud because we hadn’t got to a point where we could allow her to do that. So she literally had to mouth the words. And Wendy on the side of the set spoke them into a Mac. And they think themselves up somehow or other because you couldn’t do that. No, it’s no dubbing, you see. No, there weren’t. There was no technology. I mean, the sound people thought they were the kings of the castle. They were a terrible nuisance to us. We just wish to goodness that they’d never be. They’d never been there. Oh, never. But they were there. They were. And it caused big problems for us. I bet the anti endre problem was probably the biggest cause that could have prevented the film from being made.
Interviewer: So what other kinds of problems that this department is with you?
Ronald Neame: Well, first of all, the camera was very, very noisy, you see. And there was nothing. It was those blimps. And I think to make the camera sound so we had to go into a booth, a soundproof booth with our camera, with a panel of glass in front to keep sound from the camera, from coming out. When we did a track shot, we had to track the whole booth forward or backward, if we wanted to pan more than about there with the camera. If we wanted to go beyond the glass panel, then two men would turn the booth, which is how we panned the camera. Hitchcock would be outside the camera booth with earphones on and there was another booth for the sound department because the sound camera was just, as always, easy. Our camera and then all the lights we were using outlines and the lights had hums, all the arcs were humming away like mad. So the sound department. So we can’t use outlines. So the camera department said, but we have to use outlines because we’re not don’t have enough light without them. And somehow or other, we managed and I must say through it all this Hitchcock emerged as the as brilliant. I can only say he was brilliant. And he used sound in a way that I thought was brilliant. For example, there’s a murder in this scene and the girl is responsible for the killing and the murder is done with a bread knife. And the next day, nobody knows she’s committed this murder the next day. There’s a lot of talk going on about this knife, this this terrible murder that was committed with a knife. And who would think of doing something so dreadful with a knife? And Hitchcock clung on to this word knife. And in the scene, you have the people, the dialogue, the rest of the dialogue drops away and all you hear is knife. Knife. Knife. And this nearly drives girl crazy. Now, there was a way of use that was a way of using sound that nobody would have thought of the sound. People thought we were absolutely out of our minds that we would want to do this.
Interviewer: Well, if I can interrupt for a second, I mean, it seems incorrect. His fox using sound cinematically, almost visually when everybody else is just trying to get sounds pristine.
Ronald Neame: Absolutely. Tell me that. Well, here’s the sound department wanted perfect sound as perfect as it could be in those days. They wanted it to be meticulous and be correct. Hitch wanted sound to be dramatic. There are times when one word becomes much more important than all the rest of the lines. So Hitchcock thought, right, that one word knife. That’s the word I want to emphasize. So he used it as cinematically. And of course, it’s been done a lot since then. Sound has been used in in dramatic forms and wonderful forms. But at that time, everybody was so happy to even be able to see people talking on here, people talking on the screen that nobody wanted or nobody thought about doing anything as clever as that.
Interviewer: Quite radical. Yes. How do you that? That’s shocking. How did you achieve that shot then?
Ronald Neame: Well, it had to be done at the time with the with to be absolutely honest, I was too busy working with the camera to know exactly how they brought it about. But all I can I can tell you is that it was done on the set, that they had to bring up the word knife and they had to play with it. But it all had to be played with at the time because you couldn’t take it into the cutting room and do all kinds of tricks with sound, which you can do today.
Interviewer: You were limited, actually, somebody was talking about if you were listening to music on the radio, you actually had to have an orchestra playing next next to the radio.
Ronald Neame: Yes. I don’t think you could have had music afterwards. I think the music had to be added at the time. It’s unbelievable when one thinks back.
Interviewer: For Hitch, there are some lean years at VIP after Black Caucus number 17. The V.A. walls. How important to your are living in England at the time? Obviously not working with him was the man who knew too much, 39 steps stage possible. What did those two things do?
Ronald Neame: Well, they see Hitchcock had had made a reputation for himself. So any Hitchcock picture automatically became an important picture. There were not many films being made in England at that time. In fact, it was one of the low up, just around about the end of blackmail became one of the bad times of British films. And Hitchcock survived it because Hitchcock, if there was anybody that could raise money, it would be people who wanted to raise money for each got. But for the most part, the industry was was in in the doldrums. Which is why I think Hitch Hayek’s Hitchcock wanted to come to America. He wanted to get away from it. But I am afraid I didn’t have a lot to do after blackmail. In fact, after blackmail, I left the film industry for two years.
Interviewer: But I’m curious, just being in England at the time, if not not not on a Saturday. So what do you think the magnitude of the 39 steps did for Hitchcock, for his fame or for his career?
Ronald Neame: Well, I don’t know, you can probably see that better than me.
Interviewer: They were the first big international. Yes, I think for in somewhere, I mean, they were they were British travel.
Ronald Neame: Oh, yes. They became international films because of Hitchcock, because Hitchcock was a star. You know, it’s it’s it’s interesting to me. Most directors are not stars nowadays. There are more star directors than there used to be. The director in those days was somebody that was behind the camera that did not impose himself. On the film did not want to star in his own film, but Hitchcock was the star of his film. It was a Hitchcock film. And he was bigger than any of the people that played in his films. So he his name became international. And because his name became international, the films he made became international.
Interviewer: And they are actually quite good film.
Ronald Neame: They were they were good films to watch because they still hang on to a great extent to the idea that the film is a visual thing rather than a dialogue thing.
Interviewer: By the way, I was ever worried about our performance.
Ronald Neame: We know she was very young. She was very homesick. She was longing to get back to Czechoslovakia. She once said to me, or running, I do not have a boyfriend. I would like so much to have a boyfriend. I mean, she she she was of a very young woman. Very pretty. Very nice. And I don’t suppose she felt or thought too deeply about anything.
Interviewer: So our films about Hitchcock and their relationship for Southlake, which some of his best for you never saw that relationship. But can you understand what kind of a producer, Michael?
Ronald Neame: Well, Michael Bokan was was, I would say alongside Alexander Korda was the most important British producer of that particular period. And Michael Bokan was in many ways the perfect producer. I would say for Hitchcock because he was a support a friend, but not interfering. You’re now a director is rather like a chef. The producer is rather like the major to tell the image, to tell it makes everything nice and beautiful and easy for the chef. And the chef cooks the meal, which is the film. Now, Hitchcock is the chef. The chef gets very irritated if the match they tell says you want to put a little more salt in that soup. And that’s the kind of producer that I could never understand. Hitchcock being able to work with, but Wulkan didn’t say put more salt in the soup, which he let Hitch make his own soup and then encouraged him. And was there, if ever he was needed as a friend. To help Hitch or any of that young directors that worked very for Baucom, by the way.
Interviewer: It was just get Michael Bolton who would come on that world.
Ronald Neame: What did you know about Michael Bolton would hardly ever come on the set. There would be days when we wouldn’t see Michael Bolton. Michael Bolton didn’t believed, as indeed I do, that if the film is going beautifully and you’re producing it. Let it go on. Who wants to get in the way? And, you know, producers are automatically regarded a little bit as being the enemy by not only the director, but the cameramen and the people on the set, because the producer is liable to say, you got to get off this set this evening. We’ve got to get rid of this actor tonight because he’s going to cost us too much. They have him in tomorrow. So. So director always thinks of a producer as somebody who’s going to come in. What’s he doing here? We’ve done something wrong again. Which is a great pity, because if a producer does his job in the way, I think it should be done. Be supportive, but stand back and not try and direct the film yourself. Then he’s a wonderful person to have there.
Interviewer: Michael Boeken, then the wonderful.
Ronald Neame: Michael Baucom was not only a wonderful producer for Hitch, but he was a wonderful producer for a lot of young British talent that he supported the dealing. Later on in years to come. But if I can just go. Yeah. Oh I see. Yeah. In my opinion, Michael Bokan was a perfect producer of each cock. He was there to support him and he was not there to interfere. Now, I don’t know what happened to Hitch when he came to Hollywood, because Hollywood at that time was producer dominated. And I can’t imagine Hitchcock ever working under the direction of a producer. It was so against it and if anything to do with the man. But obviously it worked because he worked with Selznick very satisfactorily.
Interviewer: You know, he was against the person. He never had any experience. Whether like that.
Ronald Neame: No, no. I don’t know how you put up with it, but you obviously did put up with it. Maybe you had no option. You know, I. I wasn’t on the set. I it would be very interesting to know whether they were flaming brows or what happened.
Interviewer: Well, you know, hip hop’s not the kind of person I was.
Ronald Neame: No, I wouldn’t think so. How can I describe Hitchcock? Once Hitchcock was directing a scene. And the husband of the actress he was directing happened to be on the set. And the husband came up to Hitchcock, made a suggestion about his wife. And Hitchcock said, oh, please be my guest. And he brought his chair, his director’s chair. He put it down in front of the camera. And he said, Mr. Sound. So we’ll be taking over this scene. And he walked off the set. So the terrible embarrassment of this man. Now, that would be Hitchcock’s way of dealing with it. He wouldn’t be a flaming row. He just be very cleverly sarcastic.
Interviewer: Very passive in his control. Yes.
Ronald Neame: Always, always, always in control. And you have to remember, and it applies to any director. The director has got to be in control and in charge. Because the second director shows insecurity or indecision of any kind. There are 10 people that will try and tell him how to do it. The actors being the most difficult in this area.
Interviewer: And Hitch, you know, and Peggy Roberts and any number of people have all talked about how he detested conflict, how he completely detested conflict in any aspect of his life. Most of all, he says. Did you remember, though, why Why do you think after this history is you you paint a very vivid picture of Hitchcock in command of all this? I mean, the king of cinema. Why? Why do you think he would want to?
Ronald Neame: Well, Hollywood was the Mecca. Hollywood was the center of filmmaking. Hollywood. All the all the good directors from Europe wanted to go to Hollywood at some point because that was that was a sign of success. And Hitchcock was no exception to this. Now, a lot of them, when they came over here, did not enjoy it. They just could not. Lubitch came over and Lubitch hated Hollywood. He became a producer here, which he really wasn’t because he was a director. And a lot of particularly the European directors that came over just did not like it. But it was it was something we all wanted. I just when when I had became a director, one of the first things I wanted to do was to direct a film in Hollywood. Same applied to actors because Hollywood was the center of filmmaking and we were on the periphery and British films did not do well out of England. They were colloquial Americans couldn’t understand what we were saying. In us clipped accent, no card accents. And so the way to become an internationally famous man in filmmaking was to work here. And although Hitchcock was was very well known at the moment, he came over here. He was even better known worldwide. Yeah.
Interviewer: It would. The moment, if you could tell me again, if he comes to me. Was he well known internationally before then?
Ronald Neame: You see, I wouldn’t know how well known Hitchcock was here. One at that time of America was Hitchcock, well known outside of outside of America, Hitchcock’s name, even at the time of blackmail. I would suspect even before blackmail on pictures like the larger Hitchcock was a star. As I’ve said before, he was a star in his own films, directing his own films.
Interviewer: If I can. But there’s there is certainly the element of wanting to be an international director. But is there not also the element of if you can’t help me see this in the way that the technical stuff, the better equipment that you had, more money, you could do more a film if you cared about it in Hollywood than you could Islington, right.
Ronald Neame: Yes. How do I answer that? Well, as I say, you haven’t answered your question.
Interviewer: But you know what? If I find talking, I care about what are my restrictions.
Ronald Neame: It is well, to start off with, we our studios at that time were ill equipped. We we did not have the modern lighting. Mel Richardson lighting that you had over here? I think we had one, perhaps two Mitchell cameras, which was the only cameras to have. And Hollywood was that the opportunities were far greater. Also, you had you could have a cast, you could have well-known names. You could have Clark Gable, Cary Grant, all these people. Whereas over in England, we couldn’t afford to bring these people over to England. We made small pictures for our own country. And Hitchcock obviously wanted to be worldwide in his activities. And if it was an obvious thing for anybody to want to do to come here. But then when they got here, they found that although there was plenty of money, although there were they could do all kinds of things. They could they could shoot through the lunch hour without the union saying you’ve got to stop for lunch now. They could work late into the night. And by this time in 39 or thereabouts, I’m 40. The union restrictions in England were very heavy. It was all made much easier. Yeah, but the studio controlled the situation. Darryl Zanuck was the boss of 20th Century Fox and he what he said happened then. There were the various others in the various studios. Selznick certainly. And so that was that. That was the miners, as it were. That was the negative side for a director who wanted to be. The important figure, the all important figure.
Interviewer: What? What do you remember of the sentiments in the British press version? And it’s just the British population about Hitchcock announcing that he was going to work in Hollywood with David Selznick.
Ronald Neame: Well, I suppose it was a feeling that our perhaps our only international film director was about to deserters for Hollywood. But but one wouldn’t be surprised about that. I mean, one would have expected it. I think also we were coming up to the war. Nobody knew whether we’d ever gone making films during the war. I mean, I. I expected that within six months of that, we need three months of the war starting. I would be in uniform carrying a rifle. You know, we none of us thought that it would be recognized how important films were for propaganda films like in which we said that I worked on an all the films we made during war. We never thought that that would happen. We thought that the industry would come to us as a whole stop. And somebody like Hitchcock, who, quite frankly, he wasn’t British. British now Balkan was Balkan, wouldn’t want to make films anywhere other than in England. And he wouldn’t want to make films that even appealed to anybody else, particularly other than England. He was British. Up to the, you know, wherever you’re British up to. But Hitchcock wasn’t like that. And Hitchcock, you know, he wasn’t he was knighted. Hitchcock at the very tail end of his life because it was sort of thought, well, Hitchcock is Hitchcock is a Hollywood director. He’s not a British director any longer, although he did come back to England. But none of us would’ve expected him to be any different from that. But a lot of directors that had the opportunity, Robert Stevenson, who did who came over here.
Interviewer: I think you always had a fascination with America.
Ronald Neame: Yes, I’m sure. I’m sure. And I’m sure he loved living here. I mean, he had a beautiful home here.
Interviewer: Oh, it. Especially if you remember that during the war. Michael Ball could have asked about this before, sir. The comments the Balkan made of the people that I was trying to avoid, this was 40 to 41, 42, he was trying to avoid war service, that he was not helping the war effort during the controversy over that.
Ronald Neame: I don’t particularly member remember controversy. I’m sure that Mickey Balkan would have been sad that Hitch had left us. And because, as I say. But Mickey was with such a patriot. I mean, he just loved Britain. I’m sure that he couldn’t believe it when we found we didn’t really have an empire anymore. He would he would be shattered, was shattered.
Interviewer: When did you read Hitchcock again? If you can help me understand how different Hitchcock was, it seemed for me.
Ronald Neame: Well, I didn’t after blackmail. I didn’t see Hitchcock for many years. Well, when I say many years, right up till 1944. And the reason I saw him in 1944 was that Arthur Rank sent me over here to take a look at the American studios to see what we needed in Britain to catch up technically with with America. And that was why I was here. I had a wonderful six weeks here. And I phoned Hitchcock up and I said, Do you remember me? And that was when he said, You’re one of my boys, Ronnie. And he invited me to dinner. And I think it’s Bel Air is home. I think it was embarrassing. But I remember I was overawed because I was sad. I was sitting next to Ingrid Bergman, with whom he was working at that time. And Hitchcock obviously was sitting at the head of the table. I think there were about 12 or 14 of us. And he was right at the height of his career, end of his fame and of his enjoyment of life. I would say here was the really successful man, the really successful director. And he loved it. He loved every moment of it.
Interviewer: What Harry? Harry caught the brunt of a lot of Hitchcock actually sounds like ball the brunt of the Hitchcock practical jokes on the set of blackmail. What’s the one that sort of. Most you most uncomfortable.
Ronald Neame: Well, I suppose the handcuff handcuffs scene. We had you see, this was a crime film. And so we had a pair of handcuffs on the set. And Hitchcock one day said to Harry. Harry, if I handcuff you in these handcuffs, I’ll bet you that you won’t be able to keep them on until we start shooting tomorrow morning in Harry’s. Well, I’ll have a go. How much are you going to give me? And Hitchcock said you’ll get a nice gift if you can really do this. And so he and I believe he put Harry’s hands behind his back. So, Harry, it was, you know, like that. And Hitchcock put the handcuffs on and then pocketed the key. And it is sad how true this is, I don’t know. It is said that somebody and it would have been under Hitch’s instructions, somebody slipped a laxative into Harry’s tea so that they knew that a few hours later it was going to be very uncomfortable for Harry wearing handcuffs. But the next morning, Harry arrived in as bright as a button, handcuffed, and he won his bet. And Hitchcock was very impressed with him and gave him whatever he promised. And we I remember saying to Harry, how on earth did you manage, Jane? He said, well, my wife helped me. My wife helped me right through the evening. And it was all right. It was fine. Now, Harry was his. Harry was his court jester. And he knew everything was going on.
Interviewer: I mean, Harry did something. I was sort of. Something funny about something about something that just sort of makes you uncomfortable.
Ronald Neame: Hitchcock’s humor was a little bit on the sadistic side. I mean, there are those that said he was very he was sadistic and there was a certain kind of cruelty. But it’s somehow something that one would expect of Hitchcock. You know, people can do things that other people can’t do because somehow or other. That’s what you expect. And one would have expected Hitchcock’s humor to be a little that way.
Interviewer: When you met Hitchcock again. 40S. How different do you.
Ronald Neame: Well, he was just that much more successful, that much more affluent. Other than that, he was the same man. He he he always remained the same man. He to me, when he was 28, he was very similar to when he was old, except when I met him for the last time. I would never have believed this would happen, could happen that this young assistant of 16 years old me would one day present the great Alfred Hitchcock at the British American Chamber of Commerce as their Man of the Year. But I found myself here and I was asked if I would present Hitchcock on this very important occasion. And I met him and he was in a wheelchair and very sad and very frail. And remember, he looked up at me, I said, Do you remember me? And that was when he said again, Ronnie. Yes, I remember. You’re one of my boys. And then you say, quiet out of the blue for no reason. You’ve grown sideburns. He said, well, you know. We’ll all get into a bit look a bit like Dickens characters, aren’t we? And we had a nice little chat and they will demand to the luncheon. And he read a little speech it had been given. But he was he felt deserted. He felt it was he really was unhappy and he really was sad.
Interviewer: Well, when he was shooting, like those 20, you talked about how important the jury influence was. Did you ever see any of that sort of spill over?
Ronald Neame: Well, I believe somebody said that he used to come. I vaguely remember that. He used to say at all instead of action. And I seem to remember that he did that. Maybe that was an inference from Jeremy. You know, action is a very important word. It is really an atom is just as important because it makes you jump to attention. And I expect he thought that that Tom made you jump to attention even more than action on a very. Well, you see, you would expect Hitchcock to do that and everybody would take that as. Well, as you said, we got. I think that’s Greg. Well, you see, as I said, the camera was very noisy, so we had to put it into a booth, a soundproof roof with a piece of glass on the front through which we shot and people on the set would not know where the camera was or that we work a camera. And we had this terrible aggravation because we would be watching a scene and then an electrician would move and stand in front of our booth. And we couldn’t see because he didn’t know the camera was there because he couldn’t see the camera. And so in the end, we put that we put a notice on the front of the camera, don’t stand in front of the camera because they couldn’t hear us. They couldn’t hear us say, hey, get away from the camera, will you, please? They couldn’t hear that because we will. We will. Soundproofed off. Actually. We had a live. He has, you know, a British units have to have their tea. And I know it was my job to make a pot of tea. And we had enough room in that booth to have our tea partner kettle. We could have a little Tea Party and then nobody knew we were having it.
