Susan Stroman: Well, The Producers is really about pure musical comedy. Of all the musical comedies I’ve ever seen or been involved in, it really is jam-packed with comedy. And I think it’s that old cliché of seeing them rolling in the aisles. I’ve actually seen people fall out of their chairs and roll in the aisle laughing. . Well, the character of Max Bialystok is not really an exaggeration. In fact, all of those characters in the producers, Roger Debris and Carmen Gia and Leo Bloom, they’re all characters that we know. And I think that’s why this show is so dear to theater folk because, in fact, we know those people. I run into Roger De Bris a lot. I run in to Max Bielystok a lot, and in fact, the Leo Bloom character. Is really the audience because we follow, through Leo Bloom, his whole journey about how to become a Broadway producer. But Max Bialystok is really someone who, for all of us who have a great deal of passion for the theater, Max really wants to have a show. He wants to become great empresario, and of course, he wants to make money also. So I think for all us who are in the theater. All the artists, all the creative people, we all know Max Bielystok.
Interviewer: Is there one guy in your experience that he’s sort of close to or at Broadway or did Mel Brooks ever sort of suggest who might have inspired him?
Susan Stroman: Well, yes, in fact, Mel, when he created all these characters, he did say that there was a fella that he met many, many years ago that was very much like Max, that was always trying to find how to make money in the quickest way. But yet had a great deal of passion for the theater. He, that person is probably long gone now. But there, I think there is a little bit of Max Bialystok in most producers that we meet.
Interviewer: There’s a bunch of them, right? Why is it not just, you know, Max B. O. Is Dr. Who are they?
Susan Stroman: Well, the thing is it’s very different now than years ago. In the last decade, you’ll find that there are many names above the titles with the title of producer. And it’s different. When I did Crazy for You, it was Roger Berlin. There was one producer. When I Did Show Boat, it Garth Jabinsky. There was producer. And, of course, the famous David Merrick. Those days are gone now. It has a much more corporate feel. And that has to do with the finances of Broadway. It’s very different now. What it costs to put on a show, what it costs to build a show is very different, even from when Cameron was here. Cameron was probably, you know, one of our greatest producers who really did it all and had not only the financial smarts of how to put it on, but also the creative smarts, of how put it in. But it’s even, I think, for Cameron, he would admit now how difficult it is to do something on Broadway. It has to do with the finances of the unions and the houses and the rents of theaters. So it is a different time now. So in order to put on a show, you need more than one producer. So those days of empresario are long gone, sadly. Thank you very much. Have a great day.
Interviewer: Cameron McIntosh assumed the mantle of the great Broadway producer from someone like Merrick.
Susan Stroman: Well, I think Cameron is, he has a great deal of energy. You realize he’s one of those people who, who, there’s, there’s a handful of people that you meet in this business that have, are like what we refer to as theater animals, everything about them, they need the theater, they love the theater. And Cameron is one of these people. And he, he also is one of those that loves to take chances. Now, you know, there are not many of us that would have thought. You could put a bunch of cats on stage and actors dressed as cats and that that would all work out. And that would have all, it would all worked out for so many years. But he, everything Cameron did was groundbreaking. And he was able to take that song through a musical like Les Miserables and make it into a Broadway show. Make it into, of course, a big hit on the West End first. But make it acceptable for the audiences in America. And everything he did had. Had groundbreaking results in the sense that someone took a little bit of what they learned from that hit show and applied it to the next show. For example, all of Cameron’s shows changed, I think, even the vocal quality of Broadway because no longer was the soprano the one, like in the Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals where the soprana was the star. Now it was someone who could belt up to a high D and belt out on my own. And so now musicals are taking on that. That quality, and I think that has to do from the musicals that were written when Cameron produced. For example, even as something in an old-fashioned musical now like Thoroughly Modern Millie where the principal would normally be a soprano, she’s a big belter, and that’s because those shows took on that vocal quality then, and now we’ve applied it to the next generation. Thank you very much.
Interviewer: What about the fact that those shows in the 80s, well, how would you characterize Broadway in the eighties? Merrick does 42nd Street in 1980. And then, what happens?
Susan Stroman: Well, I think in the 80s, two people were looking for change. They were looking something different. And that idea of the epic sweep, also something like a Victor Hugo novel being put on stage was too, I know for Americans, was something we had never seen before and never thought possible. But that had a lot to do with the director, Trevor Nunn, also that would take something that he learned in doing Nicholas Nickleby to then now apply. Musically and to see how you can make that into a total evening. And I think in the 80s people were looking for something different and the idea of doing something sung through was appealing at that time. I do think musicals have their own sort of journey in the sense that they have their different chapters. And I thing now definitely the musical comedy is back in a sense I think it’s a reflection of September 11th. It’s very difficult now if you have a musical that has a dark side to it or a dark quality, it’s very hard for one to find investors for that and one to find an audience that would be interested in that. I think as we go along through the decades, the musicals do have their own time period. And during the 80s, it was trying to find something new. And I think that might even have been left over from… Jesus Christ Superstar, people had never heard or seen anything like that. And that someone would do an epic sweep of the Bible was very groundbreaking. And I think for the designers, for the composers, and for artists, for singers, and I think that the 80s was a little bit of a left over of that.
Interviewer: Speak if you would to your impression of cats. I mean, it’s in particular, you know, many people think of you as the preeminent director choreography. And that was driven by, what was cats driven by?
Susan Stroman: Well, cats truly was a phenomenon, but I think it was that sort of daring choice to have actors not only dance but to become animals. The idea that the choreography was not just dance, that they would act like cats, that they move like cats. That they balanced and had quick moves like a cat would balance and have quick moves. So it wasn’t just It was, they were taking a chance, a real chance on this. And I think the fact that they used the poetry of Eliot that it gave it a classy feel to it. It was something that wasn’t just lyrics about I’m this kind of cat and I’m that kind of cat. It was very poetic. So in every way they took all these mediums and put them together. You know, they did. Sung through like an opera. They did, you know, poetry. They, and then they did something that might be considered children’s theater, but then it was very much adult-oriented about, you, know, the older cat dying and going up to heaven. So somehow that they were, they managed to take all these different mediums and put them together. And I think that was the triumph of cats.
Interviewer: Don’t you think all these shows, be it cats or producers, need to have some kind of emotional hook? Like you think of cats and there’s one song that jumps out. What was the emotional hook in cats? And then speak to what’s the emotional hook in producers? Not just, can’t just be.
Susan Stroman: Well, the emotional hook in producers really is that we really root for not only for Max Bialystok and Leo Bloom to become great producers, but we root for their friendship. So at the very end of the show, it’s really a love story between these two men who not only become successful as producers, but become dear, dear friends. And then when we see them at eight o’clock at the beginning of the show, they don’t know each other and they’re very lonely. And one has a dream of becoming a Broadway producer and one has dream about rising on top again. So I think that’s something that hasn’t been around in a decade or so because people can relate to that. I think in the last, the musicals in the last 10 years. What’s been appealing is that they are more accessible to an audience. People can relate to being Leo Bloom and learning how to become a Broadway producer or they can relate to Max Bialystok if they’re in their own business, you know. And I think even a show like Contact, what I think the success of that was the characters. People imagine themselves as that particular character, Michael Wally, who couldn’t dance and was… In a sea of thoroughbred dancers and had to reach out his hand and ask some girl to dance. They related to that or they related to the abused wife in the second piece who needed to be free and the only way to do that was to daydream. And I guess if they were lucky enough, they imagine themselves the girl in the yellow dress. But different from the days of Katz and Les Mis, I think now people. Need an accessibility they need to relate to the characters that they see on stage and i think something like uh… Contacting and the producers uh… Really really comes through on that end well i think i think people would love to become a broadway producer i know i would now that i’ve worked on the producers but there’s something about knowing that you have uh… Made so many people happy you have entertains so many of people that you have put a team together. That worked and that gelled. I know that the team that put the producers together had a fantastic time. It was, you know, the idea that the show won all the awards and has become such a hit is just really icing on the cake of a time that was unbelievably collaborative and unbelievably joyous, you knows, because we worked on writing the producers for about a year and a half. And we didn’t even have a producer in mind until we were finished and knew we were ready. Then we went out to pick the producers, which I think was probably different from what’s normally done, where a producer goes to a creative team and says, can you do this? But the writing of it and watching Mel Brooks become all those characters, because in order for him to. To write a joke, he does have to become Carmen Gia or Roger Debris or even Ola in my kitchen with a bagel in his hand. So to spend the year doing that was joyous. And a lot of times when you work on these musicals, you just immerse yourself in a sea of talent, the designers, the actors, your collaborators, and you don’t really come up for air until opening night. So you don’t really know what’s going to happen, you just sort of hope for the best. So the idea of coming up for air on opening night of the producers and seeing the reaction from the audience was overwhelming, it really was.
Interviewer: Did Mel Brooks ever talk about, you know, in the 30s seeing a Cole Porter show, or just somehow, it sounds like he ate all those characters and then he became part of them and now they were coming back out. But did he ever speak to what Broadway meant to him and how, I mean, clearly it was Valentine’s Day.
Susan Stroman: Mel loves Broadway, and in fact, in every single movie, if you think back, he takes a nod to Broadway. Every movie he has, there’s a song and a dance, whether it be, you know, Sweet Georgia Brown and To Be or Not To Be, or even he gets the Frankenstein’s Monster to dance putting on the writs. So he loves singing and he loves dancing. And I think doing a big Broadway musical was always in the back of his mind, because I think after the producers. Had a cult following when it first opened. Many people approached him about trying to get the rights for that. But I think he always thought in the back of his mind he might do it himself someday and then the timing was perfect. And I think the timing is also perfect about what was happening in the theater. I think idea of the audience really seeing a pure musical comedy was perfect timing. Thank you.
Interviewer: And then tell us how you hooked up with, just pick the lead producer who then assembled.
Susan Stroman: Well, putting producers together, looking for producers, is very different from what’s normally done. Usually I have a producer approach me. For example, Michael David of the Dodgers approached me to do the Music Man, a revival of the Music man. And so that seed came from a producer. Andre Bishop at Lincoln Center said to me, if you have an idea, I will help you develop it, come and work at Lincoln center. So that was instigated by a producer or an artistic director. And the thing is with the producers, it was Mel Brooks, who was a writer, who said let’s, I need help writing a Broadway musical. And it was me and Mel and Tom Meehan. And we started putting the musical together and then brought Glenn Kelley in, who was wonderful arranger. And we spent, you know, a year together in my kitchen. And seeing how we could make the producers into a musical. Because when Mel first came to me, it was just the screenplay. So it was collaborating with Tommy and who did Annie, of course. And worked with Mel on To Be or Not To Be and on Spaceball. So they had a collaboration. And it was now taking it and putting it into the structure of a musical, which meant… Getting rid of or allowing a new path from that original screenplay. A lot of writers would be against that or upset with that, but Mel was completely open to that. And I think that’s because he comes from writing with a team. Like he did the show of shows where he wrote with a circle of writers and he feeds off of actors. So he. He really feeds off the life force of other artists when he writes as opposed to another writer who goes and locks himself in a room. So the collaboration was natural for Mel. And the other thing is I know a lot of people try to take a movie and turn it into a musical and it doesn’t quite work. But in this case, the man who had invented these characters originally was now going and make them. So it was a very natural progression for Mel to now put lyrics into the mouths of these characters he created so long ago.
Interviewer: What did the producers do, like when you work with, you know, you hook up with the producers, what did they do?
Susan Stroman: Right. Well, what we did when Mel and Tom and I and Glen Kelly, our arranger, got to a point where we felt we had a show, we now had to find a producer. So what we do was call, I called several producers that I know and I liked very much, and we said we’re going to do a reading of the musical. And we picked a day, it was in April. And we had all these producers come and sit in chairs. And we hired ten actors to read. One of those actors, of course, was Nathan Lane. And it was the first time for us to hear the musical, too, being read out loud. But we thought this is a perfect opportunity. Not only will we learn from what we hear read to us by these actors, but also to entice some producers. And what was. Very funny and almost a Mel Brooks scenario in itself is, you know, Nathan launches into this one speech about, I was no good, I was rotten, I, I I was terrible and I, but I was a Broadway producer and the people who were sitting in the room loved that and they started to throw money at it. You know, just the idea that they were in a room where someone was insulting them. Seemed like out of a Mel Brooks movie to begin with. So by the end of that reading, we had a lot of producers that were very interested in jumping on board. And I actually think it was really because they had an emotional connection to that story because it was the ultimate backstage story, ultimate backstage musical. And we talked to different producers. Rocco Landesman, of course, was the first one up. And I think because the movie to him resonated very strongly when he was younger and knew those characters very well. And then Richard Frankel who I had known from different social situations and liked his personality. And then, Richard wrote a beautiful letter about why he should become one of the producers of The Producers. So, it was sort of our way of picking and choosing who will now be in charge of The producers. But as we said before, it is very different. You can no longer just have one empresario. We have about 13 on the producers. Well, it’s very true when you’re writing a musical. You really need to get them right in the opening, right in the first 10 minutes. And that’s with not only the information, the song, and the dance, but it’s also even the design, even the costumes. You’ve got to pour all your money into that first 15 minutes. And so for us, there was, what was very important is to let people know we were in the world of Mel Brooks. And every time I do a show, I do lot of research on whether it’s the decade or the geographical area, you know, whether it in Crazy Few is the 1930s in New York City or out in the west or it’s in Showboat. It’s the way people dance in the south. Versus Dancing in the North. So you do all this research on the decade and the area in which the sociological conflicts and problems of that time in America or in Europe, wherever you are.
Interviewer: How does the show, how does the producer start?
Susan Stroman: And when the curtain comes up there at the St. James Theater, what we come up on is actually a beautiful set designed by Robin Wagner of the Schubert Theater in Schuvert Alley and out run two little usherettes. And the two little Usherettes are so excited because it’s an opening night. It’s an open night of Max Bialystok shows. And it, you see how excited they are and they don’t know whether it will be a hit or how the audience will respond. So they So the whole opening number has that sort of anticipation of what it’s like to be at an opening night of a Broadway show, which is one of the greatest nights of your life if you get the opportunity to be at an open night and out pours the audience. And you see them having a little gossipy conversation and you see that they’re talking about the show and then you start to hear the lyrics that they are talking about the the show and all of a sudden they look at the audience and say. It’s the worst show in town. And they talk about how terrible it was, but they do this with a smile on their face. So it still has a lightness. You have the opposite, which is a very Mel Brooks thing to do, is to talk about something terrible, but to do it with a small on your face. And then the end of that opening number, of course, is a star entrance for Max Bialystok. And you realize that that is the empresario they have been referring to. And they say, what a bum at the end, which is also very Mel Brooks. We have a series of, you know, what a bum, and it stinks, those kind of things. They’re very Mel Brooks. But what we’ve done is told the audience that we are in the world of the theater. We have spoken about a man, our lead character, and that we also how important it was for this lead character Max Bialystok to have a hit. So what you need to always do in an opening number is do some, an explanation, an exposition. Of what you’re about to see, and set the tone. You need to set the ton in the opening 15 minutes also to let the audience know they can relax and that this is what they’re going to see for the evening. Well, an opening night on Broadway for, you know, for any of us who actually create Broadway shows is one of anticipation and excitement and. And you’re rooting for the actors on the stage, really. You’re in the back almost like at a football game, rooting for them. And a lot of times you have changed a show up until opening night. You have tossed new lines to the actors. You have given them new dance steps. You work right into the bitter end. I know people, there’s a phrase that says the show is frozen, which we try to do a few days before opening, but really you’re tweaking that show until the critics come on opening night And it’s that sort of anticipation that you have in butterflies in your stomach where you’re just rooting for a whole team of people. Because, of course, if you not only that sort of artistic fulfillment that you’ve done something that has either made an audience laugh or an audience cry or affected them in some way or given an audience more information, you’re also even, you know, as someone who creates, you are also thinking Well, now all these people can work for a while. So there’s a little bit of that riding on your shoulders, too. So not only artistically, but even the livelihood of about 200 people is sort of riding on you shoulders. But the thing is on these opening nights, too, it’s, you have to get to the show to the point where you really believe in everything that’s up there. And if, you know, someone doesn’t, you have to accept that that was just some one person’s opinion. But, in fact, you have to believe in your work up until that opening night. The greatest thing about doing a show, really, is the rehearsal and being in the rehearsal room. Because that’s when it’s most fulfilling, that it’s when its most artistic, when it most sort of nurturing where all these artists are together. And a lot of times, the day that we have to leave the studio is sort of the worst day for me because I would love to just stay in the studio and never leave.
Interviewer: Speak if you would to that. As you were talking about opening night and the critics and so on, I thought of that phrase, you can’t make a living in the theater, but you can make a killing.
Susan Stroman: Yeah.
Interviewer: Is that true, and do you think that’s what attracts this kind of big money interest that now seems so interested in Broadway?
Susan Stroman: Well, I think it can’t only be the money for a lot of these producers who want to become Broadway producers, these different corporations. I would think they would have to, there would be something in their heart that has taken them back to when they were a child or growing up or some first show that they saw. I think. It can’t only be that because it’s not easy to put on a Broadway musical. It takes a village to put on a broadway musical. And to, you really have to have something in your heart because you’re dealing with live performance. It’s always live. That’s the thing, when once you make a film and it’s done, you don’t have to deal with anybody any longer. The film goes out and is distributed. But with live theater, it’s constant. It has a constant change. It has constant breath of its own. So these producers have got to be on it all the time. It’s not about just handing a can of film somewhere. It’s wondering if your lead actor is feeling okay. It’s wonder if the understudy is good enough. It’s wandering if our press ideas are good enough, it’s constant because it is live. Well, I think, and now it is different because… In fact, when you create a musical, I think probably back in the 20s and 30s, there were, for example, a lead character could come down center stage and sing a song about Bill. And there was no Bill in the show. And it was just a star turn for that person. And that was okay for the audience. But now, theater is very different. Theater needs to be story-driven. That means the choreography needs to story- driven. The dance needs to be part of the plot. The set and the costumes needs to part of this story and the plot or an audience will no longer accept a star coming down and singing a song that has nothing to do with the show, which they did in the 20s and 30s. And I believe that is just because an audience today has a more cinematic eye in the sense that they’re used to seeing TV, seeing film where the story is constantly told plus, you know, the amount of just the novels that are written now and the amount that people, information people have is different from what we had in the 20s and 30s. So now when they go to the theater, they not only want to be entertained, but they want to informed. And even in something like producers, which is pure entertainment, it is also informing people of what it takes to become a Broadway producer. Well, I think that the trend of now taking movies and making them into musicals is not a bad one in the sense of they are from movies that… Are entertaining and also have a story people are interested in. The idea of something like hairspray is wonderful because it is funny and it is of a time period that people look back to fondly with the wild hair and the wild costumes. And it’s almost the look of it is the real star of hairsprays. But it’s also that idea too where they try to talk about this young girl who tries to integrate these dance contests. And that’s a very important thing. So they’ve taken a very important subject and made it into complete entertainment. So I think it is a trend, but I think is one that will only work if there’s still a good story involved. I think the hardest thing that producers have to do is really assemble that team because the true success of a Broadway musical is the collaboration of that team. And there’s been many times where people have taken the best of Broadway and put them together and it hasn’t gone so swell. And that’s just because of that collaboration wasn’t smooth or there were different egos or different personalities that did not gel. So I think for someone who wants to become a producer, it’s putting that team together that you believe will be strong collaborators. And that is not only the writers and the directors, but it’s also the designers and then whoever your lead actors are.
Interviewer: And what’s the power of musical theater, what can it do, how can it take a movie and make it into a movie.
Susan Stroman: Well, I think the difference from the movie of the producers and the musical of the producer is the difference is great in its emotion. For example, in the movie, Max and Leo don’t really become best friends. They sort of every man for themselves. Yet, they do become successful producers in their jail. Whereas, in a musical, they become great friends and they really become successful producers in life. And, um… The thing is, it’s these, when you get to sing, for example, Leo Bloom gets to sing I Want to Be a Producer and what that means to him and it means to him being surrounded by beautiful girls and tap shoes and being able to sing and dance. He imagines that what that is indeed what producers do is sing with beautiful girls around them. But we don’t get to see that really in the movie. But we get to sing about it in the producers and that adds a whole nother level or dimension of emotion. Also, in the musical, we have a love interest between Ulla and Leo Bloom, which in the movie, Ulla was just sort of a secretary that was the brunt of many jokes. But in fact, in a musical, Ulla is someone who believes she’s very talented and falls in love with Leo Bloom. So not only gets the man, and… And is the main love interest of the producers. But she does become a great song and dance gal because she is one of the principals in the show, Springtime for Hitler. So we’re able to do that with music. We’re able show that Leo Bloom really, really loves Ulla because he’s able to sing that face, that song, that face. And it shows, it heightens the emotion when you add music to it. The producer’s open in the spring of 01. And it seemed the perfect time to do the producers. I think just what was going on in the world at that time and just the sort of, I guess I would say just, I know New York was at a point where they needed to laugh. They needed to just what happening financially, what was happening politically. And the idea of the producers hitting there where someone could go. And forget all their troubles for three hours seemed perfect. And then, of course, shortly after we opened, 9-11 happened. And at first, it seemed inappropriate that people should laugh. But in fact, it became almost like medicine. It became like a tonic. And historically, musical performers were always there during the war or always there during a catastrophe. And Broadway seemed to be the only place that did thrive during these times where people would reach out to go to the theater. And what ultimately happened after 9-11 is that people did indeed need a relief. And I think it was very important in New York because you know when there is grief that happens to you, you are by yourself or you have a few people around you. But when 9-11 happened The entire world was grieving and especially New York was grieving and there was no relief from it. You could go nowhere where there wasn’t someone else who was grieving. And I don’t think any of us, we had not experienced that at all. But to go to the theater and to be with another group of people, group of who were being entertained and. Top notch performers who were doing their best to make you have a little relief from that grief was not only appropriate but completely healing for New Yorkers at that time. So producers really served a purpose during that time after 9-11 for all audiences.
Interviewer: We’ve got a copy of a commercial. Were you involved in the sort of make a brand new start? Just speak to that moment of, you made this commercial that Nathan Lane implores people. Let’s go on with the show.
Susan Stroman: Yes, I think, well I think at the time 9-11 happened too, the Broadway community really pulled together. They, of all the communities in New York, the Broadway communities I think were the ones who really rallied and really went out there and spoke to the nation about please come back to New York. Please come into New York and they volunteered and did their, you know, volunteered not only. Down at the site, but volunteered also to doing commercials, to doing radio commercials and TV commercials, of trying to win people back into New York City. And I think the Broadway community probably extended themselves more than any community.
Interviewer: What happened to American Broadway choreography?
Susan Stroman: Well, in the 80s, choreography disappeared pretty much in that decade from Broadway with shows like Les Mis and Miss Saigon and the, for some reason, it just took a back step I think because we started to do these epic musicals which had epic sweep and dance was no longer part of that. And I believe that when Crazy For You appeared in 91, it sort of, I think part of its success was people loved to see dance again on Broadway. And it caused a resurgence in dance on Broadway once more. And I think it was just because it was people were looking for something new. And also we lost so many of the wonderful director choreographers at that time, like Bob Fosse and Jerry Robbins. So, the directors that were now appearing were directors who had come from a more classical background and that were from doing straight plays and now had chosen to try the musicals. When that happened, dance disappeared. Well, I think Disney changed Broadway in the sense that it has now. Opened up the doors for a whole new audience for children to come to the musical. And because as we spoke about the finances of the musical are very difficult now, and it’s trying to bring in a new generation. And children are so. Used to television and videos and the computers that they don’t have a live sensibility of what live performing is like. I know Alan Menken who wrote the Disney musicals also wrote a Christmas Carol down at Madison Square Garden, which I do every year. And when we are at Madison’s Square Garden the audiences are usually audiences that don’t go to the theater, they usually take their children to wrestling matches and hockey games, but we know that during Christmas time, that story, A Christmas Carol, which is the greatest story ever told, these children are being exposed to this story and they’re being exposed to live theater and they are seeing a real orchestra down there, and that is the great gift of all to give to our new generation, to try to. Not hook them into the theater, but surely expose them to the theater whereas normally they would, their parents would not think to take them to the theater. So Disney with Beauty and the Beast and with The Lion King of course, they are creating, you know, these children now as a new generation for us for the theater.
Interviewer: What do you think, Fossey?
Susan Stroman: Well, Chicago was really ahead of its time when it opened. And I think it had to do with sort of the sarcasm in it. And at that time, America was not ready for that. And, but in fact, candor neb are specialties with doing cabaret and Chicago. And they write that way. They write. You know, they take a very serious subject and they make it entertaining, but they’re also always informing. And Chicago at the time, they were letting us know with their lyrics and with their song that how people can become movie stars and huge celebrities by doing some crime. And that was even before I think O.J. Became famous with his white car down the highway. But it’s it was ahead of its time. And now I think when it has had its revival, it hit at a perfect time. So now to have a revival to run this long is really a triumph for Cannes-Renneb. And Fosse had a certain style and it was almost like, always recognizing a Picasso. There was a certain style that Picasso had that he didn’t stray from. And Fosse had that same style that he would then put on every story and put on top of every character. So you always know who painted that musical. It was always Bob Fosse.
Interviewer: What about, would you say there is one most important choreographer in Broadway history? Or why?
Susan Stroman: Well, I think probably the Jerome Robbins is most inspiring in his work because he had a great deal to do with creating the musicals that he was involved with. And also, he was well-rounded in the world from ballet to jazz to tap, he did it all. And he was able to take these characters and make it believable when they launched into song and dance. He could take three sailors and make it believable that they would start singing and dancing down the streets of New York or put bottles on people’s heads and filler on the roof and make them do the famous bottle dance. But he was able to take those characters and have them sing and dance as an extension of their characters. And I think… I know my role as a director and choreographer is to do that, is to make it believable when someone launches into song and dance. And I think Robbins was the one that really introduced that to Broadway. West Side Story was very important to Broadway because it took a chance with having a tragic story. That story, though, was based on Romeo and Juliet. So it had a classical feel to it. Jerome Robbins was adding ballet on top of that, Hal Prince was the producer, so he, you know, he was able to put this incredible team together. But it had, it really had all the elements, the, the with the dance and the music, Leonard Bernstein music and Sondheim lyrics, it, it really had total fulfillment of every department in making a musical. And I think it really also the… The fighting between the jets and the sharks to do that choreographically, to make choreography be fight-oriented. It was groundbreaking also. And it really, from then on, we were able to now always refer back to like when they did it in West Side Story or just like in West side story. It so fulfilled every element of the musical. Plus, it took a great chance of having a tragic ending. With the death of… It was able to sustain because you really believed in these characters. You totally believed in their love. And I think that was the first time a musical was able to not only be entertaining, but had the emotion of the characters. And that’s something that we did indeed lose, I think, during the 80s and now has come back again. And, but it was started with West Side Story so long ago.
Interviewer: You know, you talk about it taking a chance with the tragic. Isn’t that sort of the unspoken rule of Broadway? Like, oh, you look at Oklahoma, there’s farmers and a woman churning butter and West Side Story. Isn’t it that you have to kind of break the rules or no?
Susan Stroman: Well, yes, I think if you are really an artist and you are a really creative person in your business, then you do break the rules. Contact opened with someone who was hanging themselves and it also had a woman who was being abusively treated by her husband and that’s not a normal entertaining evening. But it somehow is, when you start to bend the rules, you’re able to create even more visions, more visuals, more ideas. It’s sort of those purists who stifle the creative mind, the ones who don’t want you to bend the rules or break the rules, but in fact, once you start doing, so it allows for creativity and greater results. Well, Shobbo was, I was so, uh, fortunate to have had that opportunity to choreograph Showboat with Hal Prince directing. And that revival was an epic sweep. And for me, as a choreographer at that time, I was able to do choreography that was definitely turn of the century with steps that were, would be considered immigrant steps, from Irish steps and steps that were, you know, from the south on the levee. And then go all the way to 1927 in Chicago with steps from the Charleston, you know, genre that whole period. And so it, even choreographically, it had an epic sweep to it. And then, of course, you had Jerome Kern’s melodies, which, you, know, loving that man of mine is one of the most perfect melodies ever written. And I think it also had a very important theme to it, the miscegenation scene about Julie not being able to work on the showboat because they thought she might be part black. And that was a very scene to put in a musical. And so that was very groundbreaking at the time. And it was also about a family of theater performers, these theater performers on a showboat. So once you start talking about theater performers or backstage musicals you are allowed to sing and dance and so whenever, not unlike the producers, but which is all about people who work in the theater, but in Showboat it was about that family, Magnolia and Captain Andy and Parthi and they loved the theater and had that theater on the showboat so it was very natural for them to launch into song, very natural to launch in to dance. So that is definitely one show that was groundbreaking in its serious themes, but also very accessible to an audience of people believably singing and dancing. I think the musical right now, people do want something that is lighthearted in nature of story. I believe that right now. People don’t want any tragic events to happen on the stage. However, I think that will change. It just right now, after September 11th, I think people want more of an escape, you know, as they did after World War II with those musicals. But I think right now they want an escape. And so I think for the next five, 10 years, I think we’re going to see more musical comedies, more. More shows that are entertaining and fun. And then it will change again. And then someone again will write a story based on Romeo and Juliet. I think when big corporations get involved, it depends on the particular people running the corporations. Because I think something like the Lion King hiring Julie Taymor was genius. And the idea that a corporation thought to do that was, I think, a surprise. And it paid off for them because they hired someone who… Was not only talented, but of course brought a new vision to the stage. It’s when corporations that don’t have that heart in the theater come in and are more worried about theater rentals and the actual real estate, it’s when we get our corporations that have a little real estate background. I think that’s a… That’s when we suffer because they don’t actually really want to hear about how important it is that I have a yellow dress or how important is that have, you know, beads here or how it important it that this girl can kick her leg high or how this person is a great actor. They just want you to do it and finish it and see how they can get bums on seats. So it’s, it’s it’s You’re always gonna be better when you have, whether it’s a corporation or one big empresario, when you someone who has their heart set in the theater and some sort of background or love of the theater. If you don’t, you can never leave the art of it. Once you leave the arts of it, then you do get in trouble. Well, it is true. I think because of the finances of Broadway, many producers really look for the revival to believe in it as a sure thing. That’s not always true, but I think they think rather than taking a chance sometimes on new piece, they would rather, especially first time producers, I think, they would invest in something that was tried and true. And as far as an artist is concerned, though… I’ve been very lucky to have done probably three of the greatest musicals when they were done originally, one being Showboat and the other one, Oklahoma, and then The Music Man. And I learned from revisiting those pieces. And so as an artist, selfishly, I love the chance of being able to work on something. For example, the Music Man, I, it was. I was able to take a town in Iowa and make those characters real and give them back stories and relationships with one another and know and not have to worry, of course, about the song they were going to sing because I know when they sang there were bells on the hill until there was you. And singing Iowa and 76 trombones that I wasn’t going to have to worry about the score. But it was wonderful to be able to reach back into the rich background of the United States at that time and put that on these characters. And also, you know, whenever you, well like whenever I read a novel, I always wonder when I shut the book what is happening four months later. And it’s, every time I read a book, it’s… I don’t want it to end because I want to know what these people are doing. So after I worked on the Music Man, I thought, well, what are these people in Iowa doing? And I thought well, they’re probably all playing the trombone. So, in fact, at the last moment of the Music Men, the entire company is playing the Trombone and they are all playing 76 trombones. And that was a great challenge for the company because. For one, it’s quite difficult to play the trombone, but every day at 4 o’clock I put them into trombon class. And I thought, well, this will either work or they’ll come out and take a bow and that will be the end of it or they will really play the Trombone. But when they all came out and played 76 trombones on the trombeone, it was not only a pride of the town, it was also a pride to these particular actors that they had accomplished this. So, taking a show that has already known, tried, and true of different moments, for example, a score. And being able to revisit it is wonderful for someone on this side of the table. In Oklahoma, I was very lucky that the Rogers and Hammerstein estate allowed me to bring in my own choreography and to have my own arrangements to match the choreography, and that was something new for them. But again, as an artist, it was the only way I would want to do Oklahoma. And instead of doing the research on Oklahoma the way it was done before It was doing the research of the west at the turn of the century. And of course, at that time, it was all about fighting for territory. So for me, the choreography became fight-oriented or filled with steps like can you top this or challenge steps. So it gave me, doing that kind of research of a history of America at that, gave me an in for how to choreograph the show. Now, when Oklahoma was originally done by… The wonderful Agnes DeMille, I mean that was very groundbreaking because she was able to bring ballet into the musical and that was a first and also it was showing how dance could move the plot forward. So at the end of Act One you have a dream ballet where Laurie has a dream about what could possibly happen if she goes to the party with Judd. And so there’s a whole foreshadowing of these characters. So that was the first time that dance was incorporated as very much a part of the plot. And so we all sort of stand on the shoulders of Agnes DeMille today, those of us who want to use dance and story as one. A musical can touch someone very differently than, any other genre. It is, because it has so much music and music really touches the heart, it sends you another level of emotions that you usually don’t get from TV or a movie or from even a play. And when two people confess their love for one another on the stage and then sing about it, it adds an emotion. And adds a level of love at that time that you don’t normally get. I think when people in real life tell each other that they love one another, what could be better than actually singing about it, if they really could. So I think it has that effect on people, especially also the sound of an orchestra and in knowing that an orchestra is supporting those actors that you’re seeing. It is all about the music. It takes you to the heavens really when you hear people sing and sing their thoughts and sing their emotions and that live feeling also that anything can happen and that anticipation of an audience of sitting on the edge of their seat wondering what could possibly happen and then having it completely supported by music just adds a level of breath that you don’t get from any other medium. Well, the power of Broadway is like a party, really, because I know the actors and the producers feel like they’re at a party every night because they hear the laughter. And I think it is an event. If you really think about it, many movies that you’ve seen, you forget about them. You can’t remember the movie. Can’t remember what it was called. You forget about the whole evening. But when you go to a Broadway musical, you remember every moment of that night. You remember where you ate, where you parked, and you remember the star that you saw that night, and you member what the story was about, and you remembered your favorite song from that Broadway musical. There’s something about seeing live theater that affects you that you remember and you place in your lifetime that no other medium will do.
