Speaker Well, more so to make it short. A friend of mine that played without loss was a fan of my bass playing from playing with Jeff Beck and a few other guitarists. And Lou had to say, managers ready. Salem and they are his manager wanted to know, do we know a bass player? And he recommended me. And Lou came down to the club and heard me with my band and asked me what I like to work with them and which was really funny. I was eager to work with him, but he's like more eager tonight. Candidly, I felt funny. He said, Do you really want to work with me? So I would say, yes. So he is, like, really humble, you know. He wasn't like this party. He wasn't like what I expected.

Speaker You know, like someone that's like cold or, you know. Yeah. The legend of Lou to come out. He just came down to earth and was and I. And I felt very comfortable and I talked.

Speaker And that was what, years?

Speaker Like 1981?

Speaker Yes, 80. It was 80 because it took a while to get into the next record, you know. I think I met him seven months before. And then we started to he's sending me tapes with Bloom Me.

Speaker This was the first time you ever recorded any water came out.

Speaker I think it was recorded in the fall.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker Let's talk about the mask. Tell me about this wonderful.

Speaker God, this is all about the lyrics and how you sort of see this movie and then you put it to music.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah. Martha, what happened with Lou is like obviously I my big thing I know of, Lou, is walk on the wild side. It's hard to speak production, you know, for a while side with the girls and the strings and the saxophones. When I heard this raw tape, he sent me stock and I said, well, I was I wasn't used to. I'm kind of spoiled way. I can like when I do tapes or other people put more production. Bolu left this thing open for the musicians to put their artistry into the recording. So City, as I said, well, what I'm going to do with this, you know, without the hearing where it's gonna go and what happened, I said getting into the lyrics, I start inventing like bass parts and making it like out like a movie. I was making my music like a scene, you know, or more so like to sound a gun. The lyric was so strong I and I and I popped it with this bass part sound sounded like a person walking on the street with a holsters with the gun and, you know, and so on. And someone with pretty much Del Mar the same thing with that song. You know, I felt like we were the song called Our House. I actually felt that he was there in the room at that moment.

Speaker The presence of the force that my thoughts of. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker The same thing happened with Del Mar Swarts this song on my house. We had the same kind of magic happen. We're sitting there and we like looking at each other. We felt like he was there. And and that song especially is a very visual kind of visual song musically. You know, you can see the scene through the music.

Speaker You know, you can see very short.

Speaker Yeah.

Speaker And then secondly, too, it just rains. I was wondering why he wanted me to play with him, because I, I play a lot of varieties of music and I don't know what to do. And I had his own private things that I do with myself on my own. So I played some harmonics and a few things are. That's what I want. So I made it easy for me to hear pretty much. I was able to be myself and to be creative again.

Speaker So the lyrics are so real.

Speaker You see it as a movie music just sort of say maybe say that again.

Speaker You're the one great thing about Lou's lyrics is that the. More did make it easy for me, it's made it my way, as I always saw Lou, like John Coltrane or Miles Davis lyrically, you know, and in the end I notice he always, always into people like Ornette Coleman and Don Cherry and. And I I felt that was one good reason why he had me there. So when it got to the point of it was a little bit of a struggle to figure out what to do with Lou. So what happened? I started. I'm a big fan of visual arts and I decided the best way to get through this is to stop making the music and my contribution to his music more as making the music, the colors around his music to express each title of the song or each moment within the song to get to different areas in the song. Like it was something about someone being shot or someone about a cry. I would do like harmonics or things like that to to help express the songs.

Speaker So I use your words. It's so clear. You said you you you listen to the lyrics, you see it as a movie, and then you put it to music.

Speaker Can you just say, oh yeah.

Speaker The lyrics are so real that I see them as a movie.

Speaker And then I put it, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, one great thing about Lou is that the lyrics are so real and so strong that I was able to take the music, the lyrics and put music to it to make it into a movie star in there.

Speaker Yeah, that's right.

Speaker Yeah.

Speaker That's what I said earlier, which I think are so real.

Speaker And you you you think of it as a movie. And then you put it to you.

Speaker Okay? Yeah. The lyrics are so real.

Speaker They take them and put things like when you when someone actually tells you, you know, you should have a taping in there. Yeah.

Speaker Well, uh, Morsell. Um. Yeah. More so. The lyrics are so real. I was able to take them and put my music around them to make it to like a movie and to a scene.

Speaker And what you're really saying to me. I want to do too much for you. Lyrics are a service that you would see it as a movie and then you make sort of music.

Speaker And that's what I said. Yeah.

Speaker I guess that's why I was saying the lyrics are so much like a movie and in a scene with them themselves that I was able to take my music and put it around it to make it into this masterpiece.

Speaker Yeah, that's great. That's very clear. Yeah. Let's just jump to waves of fear. Mm hmm. Just tell me that, you know what happens when you say that, like, you know, waves of fear with some.

Speaker Was like it was like that. That's where the all about the bonding happened, you know, maybe discovery. Well, I would do musically from our house. And then what was going to happen with the and the level we're going to go to musically was that all happened with waves of fear. And what happened is that first, while we spent like a couple hours getting the most strange is an unusual sounds to me to express again, the same thing I was trying to figure out the sounds who expressed fear. So I didn't really use my bass as a bass. I use it as a distortion, like a wall or light trucks and like New York City and harmonics. I was using like screams, like people screaming like waves of fear. And it's like, you know, I was like this whole thing happening. But what happened with this song? We kind of like did it in one take, two takes. And we all were standing there and it was a holiday. I can remember like what holiday was going on. And we were sitting there, we looked at each other and then let's say, let's go out and, you know, take a break and go have some food. So we went to the restaurant and it was so powerful. What happened to get that song down? We had to take a break for that day. We always called it. We could say, let's call it and let's go home.

Speaker And parents that worked for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker To like what I told you before, we kept experimenting with this.

Speaker Oh, yeah. Right.

Speaker We start with waves of fear. Mm hmm. Experiment harmonics. Mm hmm. Close it. And it was so powerful. By the time we finished, we couldn't.

Speaker Mm hmm. Would you maybe for was the house. When I said our house.

Speaker You said our house got us kind of just sort of see where we were going musically. Here was a kind of bonding. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Speaker But does she want me to mention our house in connection with.

Speaker Yeah. It's too long. It's too long. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Say, let's start with waves of fear.

Speaker The bonding moment for me.

Speaker Okay. Okay. Yeah. Oh. The song Waves of Fear was a really special bonding thing for me, Lou, especially because we it was a little hard. And for me, I felt like a kid there trying to figure out which way to go with this. And. But I kept in my mind that he liked what I did with our house and I was using harmonics. So when we got to the song Ways of Fear, I decided to to express it through, like making the bass sound like a mack, trucks and taxis and then people screaming and heart morsal. And my specialty was using harmonics in different directions. So I used the harmonics and screams and that even affected me emotionally. I mean, pretty much actually there were goose bumps on Lou's arm. Lewis I really emotional person and open. And he he said, look at that. And he showed here in his eyes, you know. And you know and I know you know, Lou, that way. And from there, we went out to eat and making sure we just realized that it's no reason to go back in there is too high of a moment. And let's just take it and go back the next day. And that's kind of like what happened.

Speaker Is a really one. Like we played waves of fear in the studio, that we played our ways.

Speaker This fear in the studio that day and we can do anything else afterwards was too powerful.

Speaker Perfect. That's great. Right.

Speaker I'd love to jump to this mask. Oh, let me think about the mess.

Speaker The day John Kennedy died was was a special song and. That's what I got to see the other side of of that he even though he has this twisted and dark way of showing, but he's a very emotional, romantic person. It's a lot of soul and heart there. And from that song, when I saw that happen, when I heard that, it made me see even another part of him. You know, we got really close because I felt something. There's something there for me to relate to, you know, even though it was it was more of a struggle the first few days. Personality not getting not the we or not getting along, but just to find each other, you know. Because Lou had to warm up to me more. So they are the song of the day John Kennedy died was a special song. And that's when I became like a big fan of Lou's. And I felt like, oh, my. In a strange way, I felt that the world should hear this guy. And I felt like I was could be responsible and or be helpful in helping him get to that level. You know, during that period.

Speaker Yes.

Speaker Yeah, that is, you know, make it is that's pretty much was a flashback when we were doing that of weights. Oh yeah. September eighty three, we're in Italy. And we weren't playing ways if you're actually for a while. And he decided, let's do a ways off. What's really funny about waves of fear. We got teargassed onstage that night. And I don't know what was going on. It was first of all, vodka bottles are flying up on the stage and we were playing that song and we're sitting here playing the slogan. I don't know what I'm thinking, like we're being attacked by an audience or something. And moreso, I'm having a flashback at the same time. But the song Waves of Fear. You know, why were you playing in the song? Kill Your Sons, you know, and we were kind of like that.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah. I got confused. You said Wavves is here I with some for your side. Yeah. Mm hmm. No. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to relate.

Speaker Yeah. Morsell. We were nineteen eighty three in September. We were in Italy. And that's always a fear Lou. Kind of like wanted to go the set a little bit because he wanted to get away from those darker kind of tunes. But we kept playing. I say Lulu. Let's, let's, let's do this. It's like really great. So we decide to do this song. Kill your sons. And what's really strange, when we start doing this song, bottles start coming on stage and teargassed was. And then meanwhile, we're sitting there like having flashbacks of the of the moment of doing a wave of fear at RCA Studio. And at the end of the night, it was even crazier.

Speaker We had to escape out of there, an ambulance, you know, get out there and not to be attacked by the rioters.

Speaker Well, the riot is kind of like, you know, in Italy, people at that time, you know, people can afford to get in. It's about two people can't get in. And what they do, they crash. You know, they have to let them in, you know, so the police were not letting them in and they were starting to get in themselves. And that's where the tear gas came in. Well, it came on my speaker and went over to him. And then obviously we had to keep playing. We just, you know, we smiled and kept. But it's no way we can stop if we stop. I heard initially they come up on the stage and. Take the equipment and take you.

Speaker That's great.

Speaker But then the the deepness of chaos on that. I can honestly go back to but I related it to first what I know about looms. That's how I related a lot of songs to songs I did with him. You know, Waves of Fear and KERO songs were all related.

Speaker And also waves of fear. You met in the 80s. He's talked about being sober.

Speaker He steps away. Here really is a song that certainly talks about.

Speaker Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Speaker About that. He said that, you know, from the 80s.

Speaker Yeah. He, he just he didn't related to me which is really he related it to people and things he I've seen and people have who live like that. And it's the song, the song Waves of Fear. Lou didn't really relate that song to himself. Personally, I really didn't know Lou's whole thing. I'm kind of naive sometimes. I don't know what was what has happened, what happened or didn't happen, really. But he did talk to me about things that he have seen happen to people. And I'm sure that song is related to a lot of people that were around him doing that period. And they probably all saw each other, you know, whatever.

Speaker And in the way that song could be part of autobiographical. Yeah. About what? Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's very true.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Morsal is autobiographical and and things that he is observing within that period in his life. Know, it's maybe it's a mixture of autobiography, you know, but it was sort of a mixture of autobiography and things you observe. Right.

Speaker Right. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Speaker Like the robot. Yeah. What's the background of that. Yeah. No, no, it's okay. Yeah.

Speaker I said again and the robot was originally for video violence.

Speaker Yeah. What happened when. You know, I was what I was doing a co-production with them, with their record, and we were with mistrial. Yeah, I was doing. Got to the point where I was working with Lou for so long that Lou offered me coal producing. He felt that I was kind of like being its partner throughout the period and and that I deserved to start having credit, you know. So we got to the album Mistrial. And then we went to his country house at that time. And we you know, we worked pretty intensely for a month programming stuff, working on arrangements and, you know, being prepared for the studio, more so with the guitars. And the idea was getting guitars and drums down first and then at the colors around him again. But more more accessible thing, but still keeping his lyrics and more. And tell us, you know, his you know, the direction of his lyrics not changing, Lou, which is kind of difficult to change, Lou. But but the record was what was wrong with you?

Speaker Sorry. Your video violation. Yeah, right.

Speaker And what happened is that we got to the song Video Violence, which has this amazing groove. And Eddie Martinez was did some amazing guitar solos. But it got as we took a break around Christmas. And then Lou felt the song, even though Eddie Martinez has done and other people are done with it, didn't express violence. So what happened? I don't know why this record and put the song up, but moreso everything was geared for video violence. And he did this video with Gotlieb Cream with the robots, which they did Rocket, you know, for Herbie Hancock video. And what happened, it became a switch of songs, no money down for some without them promoting it. No money down. Start jumping up into the top 40. And then the videos became four. Video violence became the video for no money down. Love is trust.

Speaker I read that, Lou. I don't mind you doing a video. You don't want to be in it. That's true.

Speaker He probably probably did.

Speaker It probably did actually say that it happened to be in the video. Yeah. You figure out a way. Yeah.

Speaker Yeah. Right, Lou. More so than one to deal with the typical MTV video with more so on the on video recording of nobody.

Speaker Yeah, yeah.

Speaker Yeah. More so the robot for no money down. That came up that had me cause more so little. I didn't want to be involved with the typical MTV video scene and he decided to get Gartland Cream to make a video at his place so he'd have to be there and have it. And in the video, kind of like scared some people to know Falu mentioned that to you. It kind of like in a sad way, took away the energy of the song, you know, of love and trust. You know, they got phone calls that some kids were scared, different from the robot, cause it does video. It does want video violence. But still to this day, people I know I work with Falu. That's what that video pops up as, the most amazing video that was done for MTV.

Speaker It's still considered one more.

Speaker The video for video violence robots, even though it was like for.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah. Even though it was for the. Yeah.

Speaker The the robot for no money down, even though it was. Not quality, where MTV considers the quality is still to this day is we related to us. I wanted to great videos for MTV. Oh.

Speaker Yes, sir. So.

Speaker In the video, the robots for the song No Money Down.

Speaker In my opinion, even though it was like kind of banded from MTV and people can understand it, whether it was wasn't ethic at that class of what MTV was suppose to be about, the songs, the video itself still to this day is like very powerful. And people talk about it a lot. You know, where I go, people say that, you know, people should make more take more chances like that, more so like RBM with religion or something like that, I think is at that level.

Speaker Just consider it. Yeah.

Speaker Yeah. It's still considered one of the top pop videos.

Speaker Right. Right. Innovative.

Speaker Guess you said you said magic. So with a twisted way of expressing.

Speaker That's your word.

Speaker You know what I find magic. So. All right. Yes.

Speaker A very interesting way of expressing it.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah. What's really strange about Lou and would make me get even closer with him lyrically is that he he has he has a very romantic and soulful way to to express his lyrics, even even though that's twisted. And then he has a dark side to it. And coldness is very romantic and has a lot of heart and a very given. It's not negative, actually. I see shows the dark side more clearer than average person. Most people go to that, go there and sneak out. Lou stays there for a while to get you in there. But he does romance.

Speaker You know, he will stay there for a second. Go out quickly this day. Yeah. He does like you.

Speaker He he digs at it and he wants to he gets he wants you to get his you know, he's got a four. He wants to scare you. But he like incident gentleness. You know, he's always like that pretty much in life. He's like that, you know. Don't be mad at me, Lou.

Speaker You know, like I said again, beautiful life gets you into this scary part that you romances you.

Speaker Yeah. Well, the one great thing about Lou is that his lyrics are a very stark dark and cold and and and frightening. And then he he enjoys that with the lyrics he and he'll suck you in there with and he'll sit there for a while where the topic artists mekhennet some kind of pain, but they play it safe or more so, Lou. He does. And he's not wearing a mask if he's more so and telling the truth and the things he experienced and what was really great about it. He does have an optimistic, optimistic. He's optimistic about things he. Right. There's always a nice ending. You know, it's not like it doesn't end in tragedy. He is always has some hope, you know.

Speaker Say he romances you. He romances you out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker I mean, man, I mean, I've been romantically, romantically right to a dark spot that you romance. Is you out of it? Yeah. Yeah. He takes you into a dark spot, but he romances you.

Speaker He takes you into a dark spot, but he romances you out.

Speaker That's right.

Speaker Yeah. Write a new song. Give me the hit.

Speaker You know, it's kind of for me.

Speaker That's so. It's like that.

Speaker Yeah. I'm trying to get too fat to go back on. No one really tired.

Speaker The lyrics.

Speaker All right.

Speaker Hey, I was getting one of the songs mixed up because one of them, he was writing for Laurie. And that's not the one I said again.

Speaker Any thoughts on that song?

Speaker Yeah, it's Twilight rolling again, especially for Lou and I. We. That album itself is like the closest record to the Blue Mask, you know. And he hasn't done anything like that for a long time. The Blue Mass, Velvet Underground kind of thing.

Speaker So we tell me why.

Speaker Because on this record, we all are producers all in there. You know, obviously, we all are helping each other. But this record was like it's kind of like Lou wanting to be Lou again and wants to express himself, which is kind of like. It's like kind of way loose, having a new start again. Like when he did with the blue mass, he was like a little quiet period. He had definite had this big hit and this great thing with the New York album. And and I guess he did the magic a lot. And at that point, he just kind of like laid back for a while anyway. And then for him to call him again, for him to call me, which is really funny to people mentioned that they say Lou wants to go back to its old roots and that period. So we started doing the Twilight Willy, really, Lou. And I like sat smiling at each other because we were back at ways of fear. Again, a different way and in a positive way. Yeah, because to me this all the time really was kind of like, I'm closing a period of all the things have happened to him in his life, his personal life, whatever, and him acknowledging it and realizing that he has went to this next level, you know, with with his martial arts and whatever else and his lifestyle of living in. And so then then what's really strange about the song, too, we. When we finish this song and lose that, I'm not really religious. The song came out so beautiful that Lou looked up to the sky and said, you know, thank you, God, for this. Thank you for this. And then more so that it stopped raining. We walked outside was a big story was which was really strange, which is relating to the you know, the whole, you know, ways that and Rob tied together. Those were that happened that day.

Speaker Yeah. And it's all about to start.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To me, I was getting phone calls from people about that album. Majano say, well it shows you want someone to love how they and how they can express. And a lot of people I see, Lou, are romantics, you know.

Speaker They felt American Express.

Speaker Yeah, and his relationship with Laurie, I guess, is as open up another person, maybe I guess the eldest in him obviously is a great writer. So is it maybe one person makes you stay darker, one person brings the light out? I think Laurie brought the lighter part out, you know, lyrically.

Speaker That's right. Karen, anything off? I'm not talking to fans.

Speaker I'm in the 70s was a very different 80s, so. A more serious writing, really strong.

Speaker Yeah, yeah, right, you're right.

Speaker The 80s seem to me from listening to the pass off that they get his whole catalog. They sent me a box of because I like to study things. I studied his whole paths and extra household. And if the Velvet Underground. And my opinion of the of the 80s was of Lou trying to express where he wants to be in a way where he's going and at other hand, sharing a lot of his personal life with with with with the world and then letting it go. And I think that helped him. Sometimes you got to take your clothes off. You know, more. Someone told me Eric Clapton. He said, you have to you have to let yourself out completely. You know, in order to for for people to come to you or to or to understand where you are, where you want to be. So that to me, that was like Louis showing his audience and the public that, hey, I'm a Lulu. And this this is what I went through. And this is where I'm going. You know?

Speaker So, yeah, that's right. We were just talking about your emotions.

Speaker Yeah.

Speaker Let's just talk about. You want to think about when you play these songs. It was in the studio, too.

Speaker Yeah, well that was yeah. That was happening to them in the period of the 80s. A lot of those songs were very personal to him and a lot of, you know, things I don't even know until later after we recorded, you start telling me the experiences he. Oh, and when he said, discuss that with me, I start realizing why we could do two songs. We're able. The musicians he had around him doing the record. We could have done the recording in the day, you know. But we did it in nine days, actually. But the songs were so emotional was there's so much you can put out, you know, a day, you know. So that's pretty much why a lot of the tunes took a little while. No, we had a lot of breaks because of the emotional level of the recordings and the lyrics. And I might add, all any musicians emotional tool in that it musicians, the drummers you weren't and the guitarists were just banging. Everyone had like Robert Quien ways of fear that that's fear, that guitar part. It's like the meaning, you know, fear. So it pretty much was going on. We all were seriously trying to paint this picture throughout the whole record. We all became like visual, like you lose.

Speaker What was going through was translated to you guys.

Speaker Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. More so during that. After the third song, I saw what, Lou? Say like fear. That's the best. Save that one, right? Yeah, right. Uh. Our house on the blue mass record was a very emotional song, and then when we got to the gun, that's when I start hitting all the musicians in the studio. We start feeling as if we wrote the lyrics like that. It was so powerful where we are putting each musician was putting to those songs. We felt that were our songs and it became even more intense for us. And just as intense for Luke, you know, where we all were like at that we were all kind of like equal with Lou at that point, you know, and. And we had to, you know, take a break, you know, and go outside and go for walks many times. Just have to be released. And then to get back to keep going.

Speaker All right. Anything else? Just one more time.

Speaker Well, I'm trying to make sure that the song with the song.

Speaker Well, no, no, I'm it's it's really, really a little bit. We've ripped hackers within a month or so. Super. Yeah.

Speaker Riptides one having with the rainstorm about it just to be out in general.

Speaker It's really saying they're saying this is a new direction.

Speaker Yeah.

Speaker You actually hear the album. We'll try to be willing to me. And. And. And Vernon Reid, even he a couple. He called me after you heard the race I found. Oh. How you know, like Lewis, such a romantic person, you know, and. And he's. You must be happy. Is he happy? No. And the album to me was Lou finally having a chance to release romance. You know, I don't think he had a chance in the past. He was hinting at it and he was all that optimistic. And I think even his early record was in hope of this, the dream of this romance or whatever happened to him in this future. And I think this record was a release of putting all the pathway, closing all those doors at the hands, showing how he feels and where he wants to go.

Speaker Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I. Anything you want to say, Whitney, means a lot to you.

Speaker You play or one other question. What's it like? I might say this.

Speaker You just sell this house. You see Sterling. You see what you see when you're playing.

Speaker Well, I'm not egotistical, but I see myself now because he has, Lou, always when we're playing. He said, I want you to Fernanda. Is it.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Maurice, I want to give them to you. Right.

Speaker Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah. Pretty pretty much. When I was as I was wanting to see myself as the velvet bass player, you know, and but every time I would do that, Lou, I wanted to see myself in a position and how we feel, you know. And every time I would do these things, Lou, it come obviously. No, no, no, no. I want you to Fernanda. Is it so. So it's not like I even know this the the Fernando Ising with something that Lou discovered. I didn't know I had it. You know, that's something that was discovered on the Lou Reed project, you know, but my. Wow. I see my what he wants is through you know what something he given me, you know, through the front end.

Speaker I think whichever way you want to call that, what's it like compared to other musicians? You're very generous.

Speaker Yeah. This is strange. You ask that, because before then I was working with a lot of. Great musicians who are great musically, like Lewis, great lyrically, like John McGlothlin and John Hammer and Larry Young and I had I was at a young age, had a privilege to work with these people.

Speaker And I was like my school and working with.

Speaker Lou is with us.

Speaker I felt I which was really strange, what these people like John McLauchlan and Jeff, they never let me off. To be free where you think that and that kind of surrounding of music that I was I would be able to do what I do musically. And you would think with Lou. I would be more restricted because it was rock music. But what happened is I. Lou wanted to feature the melodic playing and all my abilities, you know? So I must say that far as my whole career and my musicianship was expressed through Lou's music, the simplicity of it, because when we were recording the songs, he's his thing. His songs are pretty much pretty much like very simple. And. And he talked to me. He said, you hit that one chord is a lot of notes in it. You know, you don't have to. It doesn't have to be a thousand chorus. And from there, you go inside that and you start making it. I was like, kind of like. The horns and the trumpets and the strings for that period. No. And he gave me the freedom to be that, you know.

Speaker Let's just say you hear that or they would say you a lot of.

Speaker LeWitt tell me like many times. Sometimes I would try to fill the whole thing. So you had this chord is simple. You know, it's a lot of music. And there just, you know, pick the right spot. You know, pick your place. Save it.

Speaker You make comparisons from that to the way that's the way you write his lyrics down. Very concise. Very few were.

Speaker Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lou, lyrically, even though it's very powerful, it's very simple in a way. And he doesn't say he's not busy, but it it gets you there. And it's even now sometimes I try to figure it out like like the song Emotion with the Hattan catch scratching. And, you know, it's like it's very clever and it's very simple. And a lot of great writers have spoken to me about, you know, Lou's writing, you know, like he'd write songs. So if I got in my car and cut my motorbike on and ran down the street. But it's hard to write that way. People think it sounds simple, but it's not. It's very difficult.

Speaker And when he tells you usually to keep it, try that.

Speaker Yeah. He more so he doesn't like you to just to over power the lyrics and to get too complex because he wants everything to be heard. Like a note is in his eyes. One knock can hence the lyric, you know, and they bring that lyric to light, you know, things like that.

Speaker Last question was just when you told me in the press that when you would walk on the wild side, the base to show people like, you know, it's simple, but it's really.

Speaker Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it was strange of me meeting Lou before I met Lou. I used to use the song Wildside with musicians. They were wanting to play a lot. They were busy. And I say, you know, listen to the song. You know, you hear how simple this is, how powerful it is, you know? And that always was. That song always became like a definition of simplicity, but with power and passion, you know.

Fernando Saunders
Interview Date:
American Archive of Public Broadcasting GUID:
cpb-aacip-504-pn8x92263k, cpb-aacip-504-h12v40kj7m
" Fernando Saunders, Lou Reed: Rock And Roll Heart." American Masters Digital Archive (WNET). 27 Oct. 1997,
(1997, October 27). Fernando Saunders, Lou Reed: Rock And Roll Heart. [Video]. American Masters Digital Archive (WNET).
" Fernando Saunders, Lou Reed: Rock And Roll Heart." American Masters Digital Archive (WNET). October 27, 1997. Accessed January 23, 2022


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