Barry Shelly, Lucy Williams, and Sharon Wright, members of the Church of the Covenant in Boston, talk about same-sex marriage and mainline Protestant denominations.
Barry Shelly, Lucy Williams, and Sharon Wright, members of the Church of the Covenant in Boston, talk about same-sex marriage and mainline Protestant denominations.
Watch additional excerpts from our interview about same-sex marriage with Reverend Pam Werntz of Boston’s Emmanuel Episcopal Church which does not perform any marriages, gay or straight, but instead provides blessings for couples who are married by the state.
BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Finally, this week of Holocaust Remembrance Day, the story of Father Patrick Desbois, a French Catholic priest whose grandfather’s World War II legacy led to what became for Father Desbois a sacred mission to seek out the aging witnesses of the Nazi massacre of Jews in Ukraine. They told him what they had seen as children, and what they had even been forced to assist with. Then they led him to the mass graves.
Father PATRICK DESBOIS (Yahad-In Unum): I began by Ukraine because, in the beginning, it was a private story. I wanted only to find back the memory of my grandfather, and also where was the corpses of the Jews, and to bury them with dignity. And suddenly I discovered it was an extermination — not camp, but a continent of extermination.
In East, they shot the Jews in public. Holocaust was in public. Secret was from West, but no secret in East. All the village was watching; all the neighbors were watching.
They were poor people, and the Nazis, they used the Soviet system of requisition to force them to work. They were forced to dig the grave, to carry the Jews in carts with horses from the village to the mass grave, to fulfill the mass grave at night, to bring back the furniture of Jewish houses and to sell them, etc.
And all these people, who have been children forced by the Nazis, they want to speak today before to die.
(From Video of Ukrainian Witnesses):
UNIDENTIFIED MALE WITNESS # 1: The people were put in a line, completely undressed. I saw this with my own eyes.
INTERVIEWER: Could you show us where the graves are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE WITNESS # 2: They’re over there. Seeing those people who were still moving inside the grave, I felt sick.
Fr. DESBOIS: You know, 60 years after they still remember the last words of the dead people. They kept this secret. One woman told me, “Father, I was dreaming all my life to find somebody to say that.”
(From Video of Ukrainian Witnesses):
UNIDENTIFIED MALE WITNESS # 3 (sitting with woman): They had rifles with bayonets. The bayonets were used to push the people in the grave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE WITNESS # 4: We cried when we said goodbye. They were my friends, my schoolmates, David and Gricha.
Fr. DESBOIS: They know I don’t come to judge. I come to know the truth, to establish the evidences because of the deniers, and also to find back the corpses so they will receive a prayer and the dignity. If I don’t do it, who will do it?
DAVID MARWELL, PhD (Director, Museum of Jewish Heritage): Many will say it took a Catholic priest to travel all the way to the Ukraine and to unlock these memories and to locate and identify these graves. There are literally millions of people who are unnamed and whose graves are unmarked for whom Patrick Desbois has carried out a kind of sacred mission to identify their final resting place.
Watch an extended video of our interview with philosopher and author Michael Walzer, who explains the story of the deliverance of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt.
BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: At the start of this year, in Kenya in East Africa, terrible, largely tribal violence took more than a thousand lives and drove hundreds of thousands from their homes. But there were a few compounds of safety, among them the clinics run by an American doctor. There, Kenyans of different tribes found common ground in their Christian faith. Such sanctuary was one of the many outgrowths of a ministry that began with one small anti-AIDS clinic and now serves 60,000 patients with the back-home support of a church in Indiana. Fred de Sam Lazaro has the story.
FRED DE SAM LAZARO: From its location on the edge of the city, the North United Methodist Church in Indianapolis boasts a number of global ties.
Reverend KEVIN ARMSTRONG (Pastor, North United Methodist Church, Indianapolis, speaking to Joseph Okuya from Kenya): Joseph, please come here and join me as we welcome you.
DE SAM LAZARO: None are closer than those to Kenya.
Rev. ARMSTRONG (speaking to Mr. Okuya): As you know, we’ve been praying with and for you, for the people of Kenya. It helps us to know a little bit from you. How are things now?
DE SAM LAZARO: The honored guest told of the deadly post-election violence in his country.
JOSEPH OKUYA: Of course, we see that at the peak the leaders have made some kind of an agreement. But down in the grassroots, it’s still smoldering.
DE SAM LAZARO: The Kenya connection traces back almost two decades to one couple from this congregation. In recent months, Joseph and Sara Ellen Mamlin have brought them news from the frontlines of a distant conflict.
Dr. Joseph Mamlin first visited here in the late ’80s to set up an exchange program between his employer, Indiana University School of Medicine and a med school in the western Kenyan city of Eldoret. He returned a decade later to a worsening AIDS problem here and decided stay on and set up a small HIV clinic — or so he thought.
Dr. JOSEPH MAMLIN: It grew to where I had 1,500 patients out of this one room and just lying all around on the ground. We had the largest village-based HIV clinic in Kenya, and we were just working out of this one room. And then I was home visiting my children and grandchildren years ago, and someone called my wife and asked to meet her at J.C. Penney at a shopping mall. And she just anonymously handed her a check and said, “Joe needs a clinic.” And this is what you see here. This is all from an anonymous donor in Indianapolis from the church.
We had the National Minister of Health and the U.S. Ambassador dedicating, but, that’s not the real dedication. Here I see a beautiful lady coming by here. This is Rose Beargen. She’s one of the very first patients I treated here many years ago. And I’m the one looking sick now instead of her. And — but she was essentially dying of PCP pneumonia. She was almost a dead woman.
DE SAM LAZARO: Today she runs the clinic’s outreach program. The miracle of her recovery began in this pharmacy. It’s well-stocked with antiretroviral drugs for HIV, thanks to a major grant from the U.S government’s President’s Emergency Program for AIDS Relief or PEPFAR.
Dr. MAMLIN: Look what we have here. This is PEPFAR in action. People who’ve been in this business and watching people die in Kenya will walk in a room like this, they will cry. To see this umbilical cord to life made available by the American people free of charge for all of these patients is a miracle. And it’s just simply wonderful.
DE SAM LAZARO: Today, some 60,000 patients receive care in 18 regional centers. Mamlin notes only two American doctors work alongside several hundred Kenyan colleagues and staff, a staff so dedicated, he says, that many were on the frontlines of emergency care during the turmoil. None of the acrimony from the ethnic violence that followed December’s elections spilled into the compounds of their clinics.
HENRY MUITIRIRI: I think in the organization we didn’t have any inciter who could come and incite us to fight. We work as one.
DE SAM LAZARO: Many employees took shelter in the project’s compound. Even though they were from tribes fighting each other on the outside, they drew on faith to stay together inside.
PANINAH MUSULA: We had a Christian group. We had prayers. We had to sing together. We had to pray together. That united us that we could not rise against one another.
SAMMY KIMANI: We need to believe that we can have peace back, and we need it. We had hope.
DE SAM LAZARO: But all around them the devastation did not spare even churches — the toll not just in death and property damage, but also interruption in the careful drug regimens for AIDS patients.
Dr. MAMLIN (talking with patient): You missed two days.
UNIDENTIFIED PATIENT: There was no means to come here.
Dr. MAMLIN: I want you to know that missing your medicine even two days is dangerous. I know you could do nothing. It’s not your fault.
DE SAM LAZARO: The most immediate challenge was in tracking down the thousands of patients who fled the violence, making sure they were supplied with their drugs. Many scattered into makeshift camps for displaced people, some of which still remain. Thirty-seven-year-old Purity Wambui took shelter in this church. She got a coveted indoor spot since she has a newborn. That makes life easier, but hardly easy.
PURITY WAMBUI: The health becomes deteriorated because you have nothing to eat. Before, we used to have balanced diet, but now it’s hard to get that balanced diet. We just rely on maize and yellow peas. Milk — milk is a dream.
DE SAM LAZARO: Nonetheless she’s grateful, not just for drugs that have kept her alive but for provisions the Indiana partnership distributes to her entire family. It’s the middle step in restoring patients, says Mamlin.
Dr. MAMLIN: When I first pick up a patient who’s wasted, they look up at me and you can tell, even if they say nothing, they just want the drugs so they can live. And about six or eight weeks, when they see that they’re living, they kind of look back at you and say, “I’m hungry!” And then let another two or three months go by as they are walking around and looking normal, they wonder how do I get back on my feet and become a whole person again?
DE SAM LAZARO: That takes clinics into matters far beyond the immediate medical needs. Each day there are tough calls to make on how to disburse limited funds.
Dr. MAMLIN (speaking to patient): You have no school fees?
DE SAM LAZARO: Mamlin turned down this mother’s request for school fees.
Dr. MAMLIN (reading request from patient): “To whom it may concern.” That’s usually my middle name. No, you have to see Diana, the social worker. There are so many of these it’s impossible for me to do all of them
DE SAM LAZARO: The next patient, a tailor named Clement, was luckier.
CLEMENT (speaking to Dr. Mamlin): When I went out to vote, but when I came back they looted my house.
DE SAM LAZARO: Luckier, that is, for someone who’d lost all his belongings, including his sewing machine.
Dr. MAMLIN (to Clement): I have some friends in U.S., and they’ve donated a little bit money for me to use. So I’m going to qualify you for that, and I’ll get you a machine, and I’ll get you materials to get back in business.
CLEMENT: I thank you very much, sir.
Dr. MAMLIN: Do you want to reconstitute immune systems or do you want to reconstitute lives? And those are two totally different problems, and we’ve decided to go after lives. We’re taking care of the poorest of the poor.
DE SAM LAZARO: It’s a choice that may be rooted in faith, but faith is a matter Mamlin does not share publicly.
Dr. MAMLIN: I have much more concern about what needs to be done as an expression of whatever faith system we have. I guess I’m raised in tradition that tends to avoid putting things like that on your shoulder.
Rev. ARMSTRONG: There’s a wise old church leader who said preach the Gospel and, if necessary, use words.
DE SAM LAZARO: Back in Indianapolis, Pastor Armstrong says what began as a public health program has also spawned numerous exchanges between worship communities here and in Kenya. For the Hoosiers, he says it’s widened their understanding of a distant land and a complex epidemic, and it’s helped them spiritually.
Rev. ARMSTRONG: Who are the people you want your children to learn the Christian faith from? The Mamlins would be at the top of that list. And so for us to be able to find some way to be alongside them in their journey not only was a way for us to strengthen our friendship but also for us to deepen our own faith.
DE SAM LAZARO: For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, this is Fred de Sam Lazaro.
An African American running against a white war hero was elected president by a margin of roughly 6 percent. This is an extraordinary event no matter how pollsters slice and dice the returns and no matter how rebuilding Republicans spin the outcome. Yet it portends — or, perhaps more accurately, it ratifies — significant social and cultural changes in American life rather than major shifts in United States economic and foreign policy.
Obama is the first Democratic presidential nominee since Jimmy Carter in 1976 to win a majority of the major party vote. The Democratic congressional gains are also notable. Yet neither victory is nearly as impressive as the Lyndon Johnson-led Democratic landslide of 1964 or the Republican capture of the Senate after 26 years in the Reagan semi-landslide of 1980. In 2008, while many Republicans apparently stayed home, Democratic constituencies were retained, expanded, and mobilized. Some swing voters were switched — primarily because the country has entered a recession.
Yet there are notable continuities. Despite media hoopla about the latest “new evangelicals” (the children, literal or metaphorical, of the earlier “new evangelicals” of the 1970s), 74 percent of white Protestant theological conservatives voted for Republican John McCain; the small fall off from 2004 can be attributed to the recession and a bit of generational change. Similarly, McCain carried non-Hispanic white Roman Catholics. Although little noticed, the Electoral College remains a nightmare waiting to happen — again. The switch of a total of a million votes in Ohio, Florida, Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, and Colorado would have made the outcome very close. Indeed, if Obama’s popular margin had been 2 percent, he might well have lost the Electoral College and been denied the presidency by this constitutional relic.
A president does not need a “mandate,” whatever this ubiquitous cliché may mean to pundits and politicians, in order to accomplish important things for good or ill. He needs loyal support from a congressional majority (as Woodrow Wilson demonstrated despite having received roughly 40 percent of the vote in the multiparty election of 1912), a demoralized and cowering opposition party (for example, the Democrats Ronald Reagan intimidated during the 1980s), and/or a widespread sense of national crisis (which empowered Franklin D. Roosevelt during his first term and Reagan to a lesser extent). Given the oscillation between missionary triumphalism and apocalyptic foreboding that characterizes the American temperament, the sense of crisis can derive from a real emergency, such as the Great Depression and the rise or Nazism during the 1930s, or from serious problems that nonetheless can be managed through relatively small adjustments in a rich and stable country.
With customary irresponsibility, the mainstream news media have recently suggested that the world teeters on the verge of an economic crisis comparable to the Great Depression. Campaigning Democrats joined in the hyperbole — though sometimes they referred with greater (if little noticed) nuance to the greatest financial crisis since the 1930s. A replay of the Great Depression with 25 percent unemployment is unlikely, not least because of government programs created then. We should contemplate how recent bank runs would have cascaded if the New Deal had not begun insuring deposits.
Still, the economic situation looks bad enough without hyperbolic allusions to the 1930s. Nor do we need to look back that far for a useful analogy. From the early 1970s to the early 1980s, the United States along with most of the world struggled through a chronic economic mess. The persistence of “stagflation” then was different from the classic recession building now, yet the problems were comparably serious. Both unemployment and inflation rates routinely approached 7 percent and often rose higher. The draconian solution to stagflation, engineered jointly by President Reagan and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Paul Volcker, centered on a deep recession in the early 1980s with unemployment reaching roughly 10 percent.
Reagan used the widespread sense of crisis to mobilize support for venerable conservative goals only tangentially related to the immediate economic problems. This story is complicated. Simply put, however, the conservative Republican program included union busting, compulsive deregulation, and an ideological assault on activist government. Reagan ironically mirrored his youthful hero FDR, who supported, albeit sometimes reluctantly, a large liberal agenda tangentially related to and sometimes inimical to quick economic recovery. The results included Social Security, mass unionization, and an ideological affirmation of an activist federal government.
Obama’s situation is much closer to Reagan’s than to Roosevelt’s. The most optimistic economists and business leaders predict a recession lasting at least a year, with unemployment rising at least to 8 percent. Even if these prognosticators are correct, and they are probably too optimistic, an economic recovery in some technical sense will bring no quick relief to most of the population. Nor, judging from past behavior, will voters be much more consoled in the near term about the country’s “right direction.” Unemployed and under-employed Americans were unimpressed when, in late 1976 and 1992, Presidents Gerald R. Ford and George H. W. Bush respectively kept asserting, as their economic advisers assured them, that the recessions had ended. Fairly or unfairly, after a year voters will regard the recession as Obama’s responsibility rather than George W. Bush’s legacy.
As Obama has said, economic recovery is his first priority. His administration’s specific actions will depend largely on the depth and length of the recession. Ten percent unemployment lasting several years would increase public support for government-created jobs as well as expenditures to repair the decaying national infrastructure. Whatever happens, Obama should take advantage of the sense of crisis and (partial and perhaps temporary) conservative demoralization to move beyond the politics of immediate economic recovery. Now may not be the best time, from an economic perspective, to pass some sort of national health insurance, but it may be the only time, in political terms, for a long while. Even with the best of luck, further expansion of the welfare state will be difficult. Without openly admitting it, conservatives have lost almost every battle in the four-decade-long ideological conflict over race, gender, and sex; only in abortion policy can we find an ambiguous draw in national opinion.
Without this liberalization in everyday life, Obama would never have been nominated, let alone elected. Conversely, conservatives have won the ideological debate over the role of government in the economy. In his famous 1962 speech endorsing Keynesian economics, John F. Kennedy mocked the notion that government was “big and bad — and steadily getting worse.” Since 1976, however, Democratic presidential nominees have joined in the ritual of assailing the big, bad government. Jimmy Carter believed what he said. Bill Clinton did not. Neither does Obama, if I read him correctly between the lines. His gut feeling seems to be that government policy should enhance economic equality. As he wrote in THE AUDACITY OF HOPE, “The rich in America have little to complain about.”
Obama has shown no sign that he will try to govern on the basis of his gut feelings. Indeed, such an approach runs contrary to his intellect and personality. His desire to think through hard issues is admirable. His willingness initially to seek agreement with opponents may also serve him and the country well — as long as he knows when to stand firm and recognizes that many opponents have no interest in compromise. Since the so-called Progressive era before World War I, conservatives have typically over-reacted to the incremental creation of a regulatory-welfare state that is small by Western European standards. Even their rhetorical continuity is impressive. Senator McCain’s charge that the Democrats planned to usher in a vaguely un-American “socialism” would have sounded depressingly familiar to FDR, Harry Truman, and John Kennedy. Unlike McCain, many conservatives really believe this allegation. Equally evocative of old times is the denunciation already begun, not only on Fox TV but also on the business cable channels, of the frequently blocked liberal proposal that would allow workers to unionize by checking a card instead of voting in full-fledged elections. These conservatives are neither demoralized nor conciliatory.
Perhaps the best sign that conservatives have thus far won the economic debate since the 1960s is the conventional wisdom issuing from establishment pundits at places like CNN and the Washington Post: Obama must govern as a “centrist,” which means he must beware of pressure from such lefty liberals as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. If Hubert Humphrey is looking on from somewhere, he must be laughing or crying. On economic matters, the Democrats in Congress are less liberal than their counterparts were during the Carter administration — who were less liberal than their counterparts during the Johnson administration. Moreover, the so-called center is not a fixed point on some cosmic ideological tape measure. Leaving aside the issue that the right-center-left model of politics did not become the standard in our political talk until the 1940s, we can at least recognize that Obama and the Democrats have a chance to redefine what voters consider the legitimate middle ground.
At some propitious point during his first year President Obama should consider declaring, in a reversal of Reagan’s famous quip, that government isn’t the problem but often the solution to problems. And if the dominant public response ranges from neutral to positive, he should say so over and over again. On some level Americans grasp this reality. Even many office-holding conservatives acquiesce in it. When the Great Depression engulfed Herbert Hoover, the federal government constituted less than 4 percent of the gross national product (GNP). For the past generation, including the Reagan evolution, the government share of the GNP has bounced around 19-20 percent.
Judging from Obama’s longest single discussion of the subject, his chapter on “The World beyond Our Borders” in THE AUDACITY OF HOPE, his characteristic thoughtfulness extends to foreign policy. He rejects the standard celebration of nineteenth-century expansion, acknowledges the moral ambiguities of American actions during the Cold War, and understands that the Bush Doctrine of preemptive intervention has precedents stretching back at least to Theodore Roosevelt’s decision to police Latin America. The question nonetheless remains: how much does presidential thoughtfulness matter in the making of foreign policy, especially during crises or perceived crises. Sometimes quite a lot. We probably would not be here if President Kennedy had been unwilling during the Cuban missile crisis both to empathize with the Soviets and to accept a secret compromise. Even so, the missile crisis might have been avoided in the first place if Kennedy had reconsidered his Cold War premises beforehand.
The Cold War is over and, despite glib claims to the contrary, the world is much safer now than it was then. If an escalation of the Cuban missile crisis had cost 3,000 lives instead 30 million (a standard estimate of casualties in a “limited” nuclear war), Americans would have been grateful indeed. The problems of the past only seem simpler because they happened in the past.
Thoughtful or not, anyone currently electable as president accepts American assumptions about the world that have changed less in fifty years — or two hundred years — than our approach to domestic issues. These attitudes were codified most eloquently by Woodrow Wilson, and Obama, like all presidents since Wilson, is a Wilsonian of sorts. He aspires to spread American ideals, which he characterizes with the customary pairing of “free markets and liberal democracy.” Beyond this basic framework, Obama on the campaign trail engaged in some ritual bashing of Russia, China, Middle East oil states, and even Iraq. We can hope that such comments reflect political opportunism.
In private in the dead of night, a thoughtful and cosmopolitan Barack Obama may mull over some questions considered heretical not only by Republican neocons but also by the post-Cold War cold warriors who dominate the Democratic foreign policy establishment. Shouldn’t we try to understand why Russians did not want NATO pushed to their borders and now oppose parts of a missile defense system in Poland? Isn’t it hard to fully democratize the most populous country in the world, and shouldn’t China’s extraordinary recent accomplishments receive greater public respect? Don’t the oil states have as much right to keep their petroleum in the ground in order to maximize profits as the United States has to refrain from mining coal in order to protect the environment? And isn’t criticizing Iraq for anything at this point the classic case of blaming the victims?
Even if such questions never cross his mind, Obama sounds like one of the relatively prudent Wilsonians. He is “skeptical that we can single-handedly liberate others from tyranny.” He urges consultation with foreign governments not only as a diplomatic nicety, but also because their doubts about a policy might help the United States to “look before we leap.” This is the good news. The bad news is that establishment advice and political pressure may cause him to leap no matter how lousy the landing looks. Jimmy Carter, a fellow devotee of Reinhold Niebuhr’s Christian realism, knew in his mind as well as his gut that admitting the deposed Shah of Iran to the United States posed a terrible risk. He was persuaded to leap anyway.
–Leo P. Ribuffo teaches history at George Washington University.
When I gave a talk for Obama in a Pentecostal church in central Pennsylvania and was warmly received, I knew the Keystone State would be OK. My home state, we had hoped to carry it by 7 or 8 percent, but carried it by 11 percent. I noticed, after the election, a kind of “reverse Bradley effect.” Some people who did not want to talk too openly about voting for Obama planned to and did vote for him.
We are in for a roller coaster ride now. Rarely if ever has a president come in with such huge hopes and expectations, and rarely with as many pressing issues to confront. He is bound to slip here and there, and to annoy some supporters (as he already has). But I hope the press — and the rest of us — cut him a little slack for a while.
An interesting thought: What if Barack Obama really is a Muslim? How much difference should that make?
–Harvey Cox is the Hollis Professor of Divinity at Harvard Divinity School.
BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Religion played a significant role throughout the long campaign and here to help assess that role is RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY managing editor Kim Lawton who led our program’s political coverage, and from Akron, Ohio John Green, a senior fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life and director of the Ray C. Bliss Institute at the University of Akron.
John welcome. Let’s get right into it. How did the religious groups vote?
Professor JOHN GREEN (Senior Fellow, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life and Director, Ray C. Bliss Institute, University of Akron): Well, on his way to a sweeping electoral victory, Barack Obama made gains in almost all of the religious groups. However, he made the largest gains among groups that had been voting Democratic in previous elections. For instance, he made some big gains among black Protestants and among unaffiliated voters. He also made some gains among groups that have been voting Republican, such as white evangelical Protestants. But there the gains were somewhat more modest, for instance, about five percentage points. So Obama got about 26 percent of the white evangelical vote. This varied a little bit from state to state. As you might imagine, in the Deep South it was smaller. But in some of the swing states in the Midwest that were decided by just a handful of votes, Obama came close to getting 30 percent of the white evangelical vote.
KIM LAWTON (Managing Editor, RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY): And that was really significant, I think, because the Obama campaign targeted white evangelicals, evangelicals in general, in many of these battleground states. His campaign people were at evangelical colleges, and they really saw some openings there. So even though I think that the overall numbers of evangelicals didn’t swing dramatically toward the Democratic side — no one expected that. But in some of those key battleground states, I think it was very interesting that he did make some movement, and, you know, that could have had a real difference in the outcome.
ABERNETHY: John, back to you. People had been — some Democrats had been concerned about Catholic votes and about Jewish votes. How did they do?
Prof. GREEN: Well, Obama actually did quite well among Catholic voters, although white Catholics voted on balance for John McCain. Obama made gains over John Kerry’s vote among white Catholics, particularly in some of the key states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, so some pluses there. There also had been some concern that some of the Jewish community were skeptical about the Obama candidacy, but on election night the exit polls showed him actually picking up votes over the votes that Kerry got in 2004. So some pluses among Catholics and Jews for the Democrats as well.
Ms. LAWTON: Catholics have really become a key swing vote in the elections. They went for George Bush last time by slight majority; now slightly for the Democratic side. So it’ll be interesting to see in the next few years how the parties address that. But clearly Catholics are emerging as a group that’s hard to peg and very important.
ABERNETHY: And what do each of you say about how this leaves the religious right? Where are they as a power in politics?
Prof. GREEN: Well, the religious right has a mixed assessment coming out of this election. On the one hand, white evangelical voters did stick with John McCain in many parts of the country in a lot of key states. They’re one of the most loyal Republican constituencies. On the other hand, many Republican strategists wonder if some of the concessions made to the religious right in order to attract a high vote from evangelicals may have driven off other key constituencies that Republicans have to have if they’re going to come back in 2012 and win the presidency. So the religious right finds itself where it often is — in the midst of considerable controversy.
Ms. LAWTON: John McCain was never a favorite of the religious right to begin with, and so he never did have that special connection that George W. Bush had with evangelicals and with the religious right. Naming Sarah Palin helped him a little bit, but even that wasn’t enough. And, you know, Republicans are seeing they can’t win without these religious conservatives. They need them to be part of the coalition. But, as they saw this time around, they can’t win with only them. And so that does leave the religious right, I think, in a precarious position.
ABERNETHY: John, how do you assess the impact of the use of religion in political ads? I’m thinking about the ad in North Carolina, about somebody not being a believer, that kind of thing? Jeremiah Wright?
Prof. GREEN: Well, religion is a very powerful appeal to many Americans, precisely because they take their faith very seriously. But it can often backfire, and some of the examples you mentioned at the minimum didn’t do any good as far as we can tell from the exit polls in the final election results. But they may very well have done some harm. Americans respond very positively to what they see as sincere expressions of faith. But they’re very skeptical of hypocrisy, of intolerance, or what they might perceive as religious exclusiveness. So some of those appeals didn’t work that well in this election.
ABERNETHY: I’m interested in what you both find in these results, as some kind of indication of what to expect in years ahead.
LAWTON: Well the Democrats, for the first time in a long time, put a big, concerted effort in faith-based outreach, and, you know, again religion was also — then became a weapon in some of these contests. But it became a real tool for outreach. It was ultimately successful, and so I would guess that the Democratic Party is going to continue doing that. This is something Republicans seemed to have a lock on in recent years, and so I think that’s one change we will see.
ABERNETHY: John, can you see anything here that tells you something about what’s to come?
Prof. GREEN: Well, you know, despite the changes, the increase of support for the Democrats across the religious spectrum, some of the underlying differences are still there. For instance, by worship attendance the differences between white and black evangelicals, between Catholics and Protestants, are still very evident, only this time the Democrats were able to make those differences work for them. So I think that religion will continue to be a subject of political discourse because both parties will struggle to have an advantage.
ABERNETHY: John Green, many thanks.
Joining us for more reflection about the implications of Tuesday’s election: Eugene Sutton, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Maryland. He’s the first African-American bishop of that diocese. Bishop, welcome.
Bishop EUGENE SUTTION (Episcopal Diocese of Maryland): Thank you, Bob.
ABERNETHY: A lot of us have been trying to find words to describe the meaning of Tuesday’s election. What does it mean to you?
Bishop SUTTON: Well, words are difficult to describe significant moments. More than words on our lips, I think we have to see what’s happening on people’s faces and bodies. What it means to me was that I was crying on Tuesday night. My wife and I, sitting there and watching the screen, tears coming down our faces, tears coming down the faces of people such as a woman on my staff who said that she voted this morning, and this older African-American woman just stopped and cried. We see it in the dancing, the crying in that crowd and people all over the world. The words will come later, but right now the meaning of it was something touched deep in their heart after that election.
Ms. LAWTON: It seemed to have touched a deep place not just for African Americans but people of many races as well. I mean, have you see that?
Bishop SUTTON: Yes. Yes, it’s a moment in our nation, but also in the world — a moment, I believe, of redemption, and I like to use that word, meaning opening a door for a new possibility rather than closing the doors of what has happened in the past, and we know about the past history of our nation, of oppression, and of closing doors and building walls. So this was a redemptive moment, I think. I think for people in my generation and older, we look at this as a redemption of the past, all of the work that our forefathers and mothers put in to make sure that we could see a day of a truly multiracial society, where barriers of race and gender and misunderstanding are broken down. That was our redemption. But for my sons and daughter, and for people in the younger generation, it’s a redemption, yes, but of the future. They’re looking forward. They’re looking ahead.
ABERNETHY: You mean more opportunity?
Bishop SUTTON: More opportunity, and also they read the headlines as we do in the newspapers today. We’re reading that output is declining and unemployment rising. Our financial system is on government life-support. Everything is out of whack. In Barack Obama’s election, no matter who we voted for, I think people realize that, you know, he’s giving us a more hopeful future. That’s a redemptive moment.
ABERNETHY: Do you see — several people have spoken to me about this, a sense that we can be better in some way. You know, that somehow those better angels of our nature have been revived and that there’s a possibility that we can behave in different ways?
Bishop SUTTON: Yeah, I think so, Bob. This election at this point — shortly after the results were announced, it no longer became about politics; no longer about Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative. I think right now everybody knows something extraordinary has happened and is happening now. Around the world, people are looking at America that much more hopefully, and certainly in a different manner. They are seeing that the United States of America can still be a beacon of not only freedom and democracy, but of opportunities, of a vision of society that certainly Jesus had, and all of the great religions, that we can live peacefully. We can reach out to one another, and we don’t have to build these barriers anymore. So yes, it’s no longer about politics. It’s about possibilities at this point.
LAWTON: But, just very briefly, there’s also an acknowledgment in Barack Obama’s acceptance speech that the road ahead is difficult, too. This is not just, you know, the end of everything.
Bishop SUTTON: Well, of course, in that little speech of his, he recalled the great orators of the past, the prophets, including Martin Luther King Jr. and, when he said in that speech that the road will be long and our climb is steep and he says “we may not get there very soon.” But then, in the most extraordinary words that I’ve heard in a generation, he said, “America, I have never been more hopeful than I am tonight that we will get there. I promise you,” he said, “we as a people will get there.”
ABERNETHY: And you agree with that?
Bishop SUTTON: I agree with that or I wouldn’t be wearing a collar. I wouldn’t be a Christian. I’m a man of hope. I’m a person of hope. We’re a people of hope.
ABERNETHY: Eugene Sutton, Episcopal bishop of the Diocese of Maryland.
Bishop SUTTON: Yes.
ABERNETHY: Many thanks.
Bishop SUTTON: Thank you.
In a conversation continued from the Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly broadcast, managing editor Kim Lawton talks more with Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life senior fellow John Green about religious voting patterns on November 4th and the implications for American politics.