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Robert:            There was kind of a hope in the 70s that one of the effects of the women's movement was to equalize pay and in a sense equalize, in that sense, the power dynamic within couples...

Marianne:        That's true.

Robert:            ...so that men would live longer. They would live richer, less competitive lives.

Marianne:        I haven't seen that.

Lipsyte:           No, neither have I.

Marianne:        I don't think they're wired to give up. Although with be ascent, if you will, of women to power, there are a new breed of men, there is a new breed of men, who are content to stay home, invest in their children in a way they never have before, plan the social schedules, run the maintenance of the home. But I'm interested to find that they...

Lipsyte:           Does that really exist, or is this kind of a style section picture story?

Marianne:        No, it really does exist.

Lipsyte:           Do you think it's a sizeable...

Marianne:        With not great satisfaction for all of the men involved, and many of them maintain what they call a home office, and I see a lot of these men, because they're the husbands of the women that I take care of. And there's an uneasiness about their position, a sort of embarrassment, which they deny until we really get down to what they're really feeling, and I think it's a time of transition in which men have been relegated, or let's say delegated, to do new things that they have never done before.

Lipsyte:           Now, if so much of this is biology, chemistry and hard wiring and neurons, in gender specific psychiatry of the future, will there be no drugs or therapies that men and women...

Marianne:        Well, we already know that the treatment of depression in men and women requires, usually, different drugs.

Lipsyte:           Um-hum.

Marianne:        That women will respond other to the so-called serotonin reuptake inhibitors, why men, while men respond better to a whole different category of drugs, the tricyclics or the, that kind of medication.

Lipsyte:           Is that because different parts of the brain are involved...

Marianne:        Yes.

Marianne:        Yeah, no, because the chemistry of the brain is different. Men have, to begin with, a serotonin level that's 52% higher than women, which has been faciley suggested to be the reason they're "less frequently depressed than women". I don't think they are less frequently depressed. Although my friend the great doyenne of depression, Myrna Weissman, tells me I'm crazy and that men simply aren't depressed with the frequency that women are. I just think we haven't learned how to diagnose depression in men.

Lipsyte:           Well, men also have outlets. I mean, rage seems a way of keep depression at bay.

Marianne:        Ever seen a woman have a temper tantrum?

Lipsyte:           Yeah.

Marianne:        Right.

Lipsyte:           Um-hum.

Marianne:        Men don't have a, a hold, an exclusive hold on rages or temper tantrums.