Thank you great. Honor and the like. Images would have

alen air purifier
air purifiers
enviracaire air purifier

Michael V.; I assume you forgot about James Guckert/Jeff Gannon, the homosadist prostitute and erstwhile White House press corps member assigned to ask Dub "softball" questions. Records indicated regular visits far in excess of those necessary for news gathering, and at odd hours. These visits correspond to the President's presence at the White House (He vacationed plenty and often raised funds out of town.). Closer scrutiny might uncover Camp David, Kennebunkport and Crawford Ranch sessions. They might even have met in a secure undisclosed location or mile-highed on Air Force One. Dub has a history of same sex activity in Skull and Bones and other all male organizations. Gay is OK, except when the partaker is a gay basher and rights denier.

everything but a blowjob in the oval office. however, I'm sure Bush has been on his knees in front of Chaney once or twice.

I was wondering how Bank of America morphed into a South Carolina firm owned by Saudi Royals? Anybody know? I was once a customer there and it was an Italian bank centered in California, San Francisco.

Bush is the worst president in American history. Bush facilitated the 9/11 attacks. Subsequently, Bush lied to Congress and the American people relative to the reasons for invading Iraq. Bush purposefully misled Congress and the American people. Then, Bush murdered more than 4,000 United States service members. And Bush wounded more than 30,000 United States service members. In torturing prisoners of war, Bush patently violated the Geneva Convention. Bush unlawfully wiretapped United States citizens. In using “signing statements” to challenge hundreds of laws passed by Congress, Bush violated the Constitution. Bush has ignored global warming. Bush is guilty of criminal negligence relative to the response to Hurricane Katrina. Bush disobeys our democratic values and Constitution. Bush is a disgrace to the United States.

Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA

Two questions:

Last week, when questioned about the cover of the New Yorker Magazine, Senator Obama concluded his answer by stating that the New Yorker has their 1st Amendment rights. Ironic because just days before the New Yorker incident Obama voted to kill the 4th Amendment. How regal to be able to select and choose which Amendments to support and ignore. Will the 1st Amendment be next?

A few weeks ago Carl Rove failed to appear for a Congressional Hearing. Rove says he will testify but not under oath and not if recorded. Why does Rove expect a right to secrecy & privacy when he and his cronies can wiretap & record any American Citizen without their knowing it?

Sorry for the double posting. My mistake.

Jeanne Zindorf
San Luis Obispo

Re: Congressman Dennis Kucinich’s Resolution for Impeachment of President George Bush made before the House of Representatives on June 9, 2008. I immediately responded to my Representative with an open letter to Congress, Speaker of the House Pelosi, with a follow-up call. I also contacted Congressman Kucinich expressing my full support. Mainstream media is ignoring this most historic event. Please Mr. Moyer do not allow Congressman Kucinich’s most historic and critical Resolution for Impeachment to disappear without a whimper. Make it the News that it is. This is the letter I sent to Congress.

Dear Congresswoman Capps and Members of Congress,

Thank you for the update on bills you have helped get passed. It was helpful in understanding all that is being done on our behalf. However, my primary concern at this point is if President Bush is able, and the Patriots Act did enable him, to declare war on Iran without Congress, and then using his commander-in-chief status to declare martial law. When that happens all your works and efforts are for not. Congress will not have any power to make any laws, block, prevent or control a President who has declared himself the sole authority on all matters of governing.
Congress's inability to actually stop the war, stop the funding for the war, control gas prices, or influence the president in matters of the greatest concern to us is merely a prelude of things to come. Congress has already shown itself to be so afraid of this president by giving into him on issues we have clearly expressed as non-negotiable, end the war, that I doubt you will have the where with all to act on critical issues in a timely manner.

Representative Dennis Kucinich's impeachment resolution is such an issue. And you have shelved it. An impeached President cannot declare war. An impeached president cannot declare himself commander-in-chief, or declare Martial law. An impeached president is powerless. By spending your time and effort on legislation unrelated to the issue that is of the greatest importance to us as a democracy, which is our Constitution, is indicative of our confidence in your ability to recognize those things that are going to make a difference now and in the future.

This president is unworthy to be representing us as a leader of a democracy. I am ashamed of what we have done under this president and what we have become. The American people have spoken. We do not want this war. We do not want another war. We want peace and prosperity. That is not going to happen if president Bush is allowed to continue to bully Congress.

Does Congress really think they will be able to get their act together in time to stop Bush from declaring war on Iran and declaring himself commander-in-chief? I do not think so. Except for one very brave representative from Ohio, Congressman Kucinich, who has introduced a resolution to impeach President Bush, there is little trust in this Congress that they will not turn over our government to Bush on a sliver platter whenever he wants it.

I beseech you to embrace Congressman Kucinich's resolution and unite with all your other fellow devoted Americans in Congress and stand up to the bully Bush. This will unite us again as Americans and prove to us you can be trusted with our democracy with our very lives.
If you ignore the historic significance of this resolution or doubt or mistrust Rep. Kucinich's intent and devotion to our democracy then you doubt every soldier and American’s devotion and love for this country. Nothing at this moment in time is as important to us as a nation than to be able to remove that which is the greatest threat to our hope, dreams and well being. This President is a threat as the impeachment resolution so plainly and clearly proves beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you shelve this resolution, ignore it; cover it up, then you are ignoring the reasons why we are Americans and everything that America stands for.
Please make this resolution a reality for all our sakes and for the sake of mothers, sons, daughters and fathers everywhere. It is your duty and responsibility to act on those issues that insure our well-being, protect, defend and uphold our Constitution. It is your duty to sign the Resolution for Impeachment.
Most sincerely yours,
Jeanne Zindorf, San Luis Obispo, CA

Re: Congressman Dennis Kucinich’s Resolution for Impeachment of President George Bush made before the House of Representatives on June 9, 2008. I immediately responded to my Representative with an open letter to Congress, Speaker of the House Pelosi, with a follow-up call. I also contacted Congressman Kucinich expressing my full support. Mainstream media is ignoring this most historic event. Please Mr. Moyer do not allow Congressman’s Kucinich’s most historic and critical Resolution for Impeachment disappear without a whimper. Make it the News that it is. This is the letter I sent to Congress.

Dear Congresswoman Capps and Members of Congress,

Thank you for the update on bills you have helped get passed. It was helpful in understanding all that is being done on our behalf. However, my primary concern at this point is if President Bush is able, and the Patriots Act did enable him, to declare war on Iran without Congress, and then using his commander-in-chief status to declare martial law. When that happens all your works and efforts are for not. Congress will not have any power to make any laws, block, prevent or control a President who has declared himself the sole authority on all matters of governing.
Congress's inability to actually stop the war, stop the funding for the war, control gas prices, or influence the president in matters of the greatest concern to us is merely a prelude of things to come. Congress has already shown itself to be so afraid of this president by giving into him on issues we have clearly expressed as non-negotiable, end the war, that I doubt you will have the where with all to act on critical issues in a timely manner.

Representative Dennis Kucinich's impeachment resolution is such an issue. And you have shelved it. An impeached President cannot declare war. An impeached president cannot declare himself commander-in-chief, or declare Martial law. An impeached president is powerless. By spending your time and effort on legislation unrelated to the issue that is of the greatest importance to us as a democracy, which is our Constitution, is indicative of our confidence in your ability to recognize those things that are going to make a difference now and in the future.

This president is unworthy to be representing us as a leader of a democracy. I am ashamed of what we have done under this president and what we have become. The American people have spoken. We do not want this war. We do not want another war. We want peace and prosperity. That is not going to happen if president Bush is allowed to continue to bully Congress.

Does Congress really think they will be able to get their act together in time to stop Bush from declaring war on Iran and declaring himself commander-in-chief? I do not think so. Except for one very brave representative from Ohio, Congressman Kucinich, who has introduced a resolution to impeach President Bush, there is little trust in this Congress that they will not turn over our government to Bush on a sliver platter whenever he wants it.

I beseech you to embrace Congressman Kucinich's resolution and unite with all your other fellow devoted Americans in Congress and stand up to the bully Bush. This will unite us again as Americans and prove to us you can be trusted with our democracy with our very lives.
If you ignore the historic significance of this resolution or doubt or mistrust Rep. Kucinich's intent and devotion to our democracy then you doubt every soldier and American’s devotion and love for this country. Nothing at this moment in time is as important to us as a nation than to be able to remove that which is the greatest threat to our hope, dreams and well being. This President is a threat as the impeachment resolution so plainly and clearly proves beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you shelve this resolution, ignore it; cover it up, then you are ignoring the reasons why we are Americans and everything that America stands for.
Please make this resolution a reality for all our sakes and for the sake of mothers, sons, daughters and fathers everywhere. It is your duty and responsibility to act on those issues that insure our well-being, protect, defend and uphold our Constitution. It is your duty to sign the Resolution for Impeachment.
Most sincerely yours,
Jeanne Zindorf, San Luis Obispo, CA

The Bush administration’s actions and policies have been so detrimental to our nation (the campaign of deceit that led us to war, the justification and practice of torture, the establishment of secret prisons, the abrogation of basic human rights) that it seems the essence of our country is dying. The precedents that this president will leave behind are malignancies that need be excised. For the sake of our democracy, our future security, our standing in the world, and our souls, President Bush should be impeached.

I am more proud than ever today to call Congressman Dennis Kucinich my friend. Despite the fragile state of our country we need to prosecute this serial felon, traitor and mass murderer George Walker Bush before he leaves office.
I was watching him on the BBC last night all coked up and reciting to the Slovenians a retard version of his Iran lines. What an abomination! What a "sack of feces"!

Impeach Bush now.

It isn't too late. Our leaders should be impeached then tried for treason and crimes against humanity.

Could it be that all members of the house are afraid of this pair? Or is everyone receiving gratuities they prefer to not be made public? What hold does our pres and vice pres have over the entire congress?

With the rise of Blackwater, are they all fearful for their lives?

Hopefully this attempt of mine to post a link to Congressman Wexler's web page will succeed. See comment I posted below earlier today which lacks a link. In short if you want hearings to begin, please put your name on the list for reasons given in the comment below.

http://wexlerwantshearings.com/

If you would like to see Cheney impeachment hearings begin, and if you haven't already done so, put your name on the list at US Representative Wexler's web page,

WexlerWantsHearings.com.

Yes, another "petition", but for a unique opportunity where timing is important.
The name list was set up about December 14 and may be taken down in January after it has served its purpose.

The creation of the name list web page about Dec 14 was a next move after major media, mainstream media, specifically large newspapers, out and out rejected an op-ed calling for immediate hearings which had been written and signed by Representatives Wexler, Gutierrez, and Baldwin - all members of the House Judiciary Committee where the impeachment resolution, H Res 333 / H Res 799, has been on hold.

The list of names of Americans who want hearings to begin is to be plopped down, figuratively, in front of the HJC after they get back to work on Jan 15 as evidence that the impeachment effort is not of a fringe group but of a substantial group of Americans. The larger the list, the more likely to convince. So far it is not that big when you consider the number of voters.

But n the same way major media rejected the op-ed, they have been reluctant to mention what the Wexler group is doing and plans to do. The names accrued so far are a result apparently of blogs, diaries, meet-ups, social networks, etc. the extent of which can be seen by Googling on the web for relevant words like WexlerWantsHearings.

In Raw Story: Spurned by major newspapers
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Spurned_by_major_newspapers_Dem_Congressman_1214.html

The OpEd: A Case For Hearings
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/14/5839/

The three Committee members may have been joined already by another, Congressman Weiner, also of the committee.

There are on the Committee five others who are actually are co-sponsors of the resolution. Baldwin is also a co-sponsor. Thus, there are probably a total of at least nine members who will be, soon after the persuading begins, for hearings.

The reasons these happenings are significant include:

I don't understand why we are here, 7+ years into the Bush "Presidency", and wondering about impeachment at this point. The fish rots starting at the head, and in year 2000 it should have been clear to anyone who wasn't brain dead that George Bush was (and of course still is). The really troubling thing is that this individual was foisted on us, and it was done with half the American electorate voting for him and his cast of evil puppeteers. We still need to impeach him and the "Vice President", yes. Of course that's true. But better yet, we need to institute a baseline test of neurological competency to hold that office. If such a test had been in place in 2000, we wouldn't be in the fix we're in now.

This isn't about democrat or republican, it's about America and our constitution - it could be either party abusing the presidency. We have a group of individuals in this administration, not just Cheney and Bush, that are on the path of authoritarianism, or fascism for that matter. They behave ignorantly with no knowledge of history, geography, human rights or the constitution - which is specifically written to limit the power of a president. The fact that most of this administration's top legal advisors have resigned on an ongoing basis over the course of this administration is telling. When their mandated periods of silence expire, I believe this administration will have enough evidence against it to put them behind bars. That is, however, if the judiciary and media aren't all corporate friends and relatives and we as citizens still have freedom of speech!!!

This isn't about democrat or republican, it's about America and our constitution - it could be either party abusing the presidency. We have a group of individuals in this administration, not just Cheney and Bush, that are on the path of authoritarianism, or fascism for that matter. They behave ignorantly with no knowledge of history, geography, human rights or the constitution - which is specifically written to limit the power of a president. The fact that most of this administration's top legal advisors have resigned on an ongoing basis over the course of this administration is telling. When their mandated periods of silence expire, I believe this administration will have enough evidence against it to put them behind bars. That is, however, if the judiciary and media aren't all corporate friends and relatives and we as citizens still have freedom of speech!!!

So Bush is like Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin... is this really where we're at? Didn't Naomi Wolf work for the Clinton/Gore campaign... good source to use

To Lee Partide commentary on July 14:
Regarding the comparison of Bush to Hitler....
Please read the book "The End of America" by Naomi Wolf. She has researched history and has found a pattern or a blueprint for destroying democracy for the purpose of establishing a dictatorship. She found that the Bush Administration is employing all the techniques that Mussolini, Hitler, & Stalin have used to gain more power for their own agendas.

I fail to understand why so much money and time was spent to impeach Bill Clinton, and NOTHING is done about Bush and Cheney who have committed so many impeachable and even treasonable offenses.

Is everyone just asleep, or is our entire government in the hands of Corporate Globe?

If we are hated around the whole world, then why has Europe been electing "pro-American" candidates? What laws have been broken? Clinton broke laws. Didn't Sandy Berger go into the National Archive to steal all documents pertaining to Clinton's strategy on Bin Laden just before the 9/11 Commission was about to meet? Didn't he do so by stuffing the highest of classified documents down his pants and socks? Isn't he a "unofficial" adviser for Hillary? Why did Berger do this? There is only one reason he would.

What a shame that this is even a debate.

The Bush Cheney administration have lied to and spied on American citizens, have broken laws, have disregarded and disgraced the Constitution, have made made us one of the most disliked countries on earth.

Remind me what the reasons for not impeaching them are?

Kucinich is my favorite long lost Beatle

How can you have a discussion about impeachment and not include Dennis Kucinich, the only true democratic candidate for President in 2008, and his bill HR 333, calling for impeachment?

I suppose if I said things you liked you would be okay with me posting as much as I do. Instead of actually trying to argue the points I make you insult me. I have chronic kidney failure so I can't do much, so that explains my availability. My question to you is, why are you paying attention to what times I am posting? I have yet to look at what time someone has posted their opinions.

Jesse Norman,
You sure do post a lot here. Long, long angry messages at all odd hours. Might want to take a break there, bud.

Every President would be impeached then

In deference to the late Johnny Cochran . . .

IF THERE IS A BREACH !
YOU MUST IMPEACH !

Come on Jay, you're about as independent as Kato Kaelin. The only way you're independent is if you hover between the democratic party and the green party. "Refuse to believe the obvious" is your code for saying "I have no proof of what I'm talking about". I blame Bush for a lot. He did nothing about Bin Laden before 9/11, even though he was only President for less than nine months. Bush should not have given the Taliban a month so Bin Laden could hide in the mountains. It was his ego over our military might that had him give the Taliban time to hand over Bin Laden. That was a foolish thing to do. He has yet to seal both borders even though we have good intelligence showing terrorists have come over both borders. They stopped building the fence that was put into law a while ago. Bush is allowing illegals keep on stealing our jobs and lowering our wages of jobs we do have because of competition by the illegals making less than minimum wage. We should rescind NAFTA because of the outsourcing of our jobs and made Mexico even more corrupt than it was. Oh, Clinton adopted NAFTA with the help of a republican congress. Still, Bush is all for NAFTA and outsourcing of jobs, which I am dead set against. I want universal healthcare. I want regulation over the oil industry. I want a ban on assault weapons. Bush kept the idiot Rumsfeld in way too long even when it was clear he had no idea what he was doing, and wouldn't change strategies. Those are some big issues I'm against Bush on. I'm afraid that just because I defend Bush on points of why he shouldn't be impeached, it doesn't mean I worship the man. I know as "independent" as you are and those like you are, yet you all still have trouble believing that there's a middle ground on this. I bring up Clinton a lot because he did things that were worse but I didn't want him impeached. I'm sure none of you yelled at the top of your lungs wanting Clinton impeached for every conspiracy theory under the sun.

9/11 was done by mostly Saudi terrorists. Accept it and move on. We didn't kill 3000 of our own citizens. Bush isn't causing global warming. Mars has gotten even warmer than Earth in recent years. Explain that one. Republicans didn't hold a secret meeting in the Batcave with Bush saying "we need to take Iraq for ourselves. MOO HAHAHAHAHA". Believing in conspiracies doesn't mean you're smarter than everyone else. There are things that happen but many of you just won't accept reality. When most CLEAR thinking people know things just happened, people like you excuse it by saying "you're misguided" or "you fell for their propaganda". There hasn't been a historical event that ever happened that's not come into question by you people. You come up with these ridiculous conspiracies because it helps you feel smarter than you actually are. What is funny though is that you think you have the "real" answer on things. The "real" history of what really happened. Got a bunch of Dale Gribbles from "King of the Hill" around now. "That's not really black you know. Bush had the Navy come out with its own color so that way they could build the foundation for the dumb conservatives to fall for their future propoganda. They had help from the Israelis because as you know, the Israelis are always in on everything we do, man." Maybe you should all look in the mirror and realize that's a real reverse image of you, and not some high pixeled computer image brought to you by the CIA and following your every move like you're in The Truman Show.

Well spoken! The question is WHY? Then it is WHAT CAN BE DONE?

Impeachment may not happen, those in Washington do not seem to be listening. It may all come down to our vote in the next ellection.

I had an advisor tell me one time that “the best predictor of the future is the past.”
It is undeniable that history tends to repeat itself once it fades from social consciousness.

When it comes to deciding how to vote in the next election, it may be wise to take a lesson from the past and vote for someone who is in favor of Getting Out of Iraq and moving toward a diplomatic/mentoring/facilitation solution.

Below are some comparisons that point out the importance of this decision.

Her are some facts I looked up comparing the death statistics of Iraq and Viet Nam.

Iraq Deaths
First 4 years = 3794

Viet Nam Deaths
First 4 years 1956- 60 = 9
Second 4 years 1961-65 = 392 (Linden Johnson)
Third 4 years 1966- 69 = 35,751 (Linden Johnson)

Forth 4 years 1970-73 = 20,863
Next 24 years = 1178
Total = 58,193

The next President is critical if we want to avoid the mistake of escalating this situation and letting it get out of hand.

The lesson of Viet Nam is not what some have determined -- that we went in with out an intention to win. This is an erroneous conclusion.

The lesson to be learned form Viet Nam is that when the US interjects itself into the middle of another country’s civil war, a military solution is a futile strategy. Iraq is a war we cannot win. Linden Johnson's, came to power in 1963 and decided the US should WIN the war in Viet Nam by sending more troops, fire power and money. The numbers show the failure of such a strategy.

We must elect someone who will change the strategy and work for a solution to the mess we have gotten ourselves into. Winning is no longer the issue. Damage control is the issue. And, wouldn’t it be the right thing to do to admit this now before tens of thousands of our men die.

I was in high school between 1962 and 1973, I have lived through the disruption and societal upheaval already, take my word, we do not want to repeat this.

Let’s not waist time, money and lives we could be spending on shaping the new world we live in for the progress of humanity.

I am a New Yorker as well and I second your notion. There are many unanswered questions and debate is silenced and dying.

The neo-con republicans are unmistakably sophisticated in their ability to manipulate debate through talking points and character assassination. No other political organization comes close to approaching their cohesiveness, dogmatism and funding. They are shaping the world to benefit an elite cadre of ultra-wealthy and have displayed moral ambiguity and killer instinct that liberals lack.

How does this relate to 9/11? Because 9/11, regardless of truth and the cloud of misinformation seeded by the neocon republicans, has become a tool for their accretion of wealth and power. Because regardless of neocon talking points, easy-on-the-brain mantras, and general misdirection, our Constitution and the foundations of Democracy are being and have been corroded.

Whether Republican or Democract or Non-affiliated independent, the fact of the matter is the majority does not benefit from the neocon rise to power.

9/11 at its heart is a tragedy of exploitation. Exploitation of the American people and regardless of our differences, the net effect has been suffering inflicted by Americans on Americans.

Who will shoulder the burden of a trillion dollar war? Why is a public fresh with the memory of Enron so complacent when this looming spectre of economic mismanagement and book cooking threatens the masses? Perhaps the wrong talking point is being used? Perhaps the public should be told they are being "taxed". This war inflicts a tax that will be paid by each and every citizen and their children for generations to come. It will be paid by regular folks that are struggling to maintain quality of life taken for granted by our parents. When the government buys 300 billion dollars of fighter planes, that money is coming from us. That's 300 billion less for schools, for hospitals, for roads, for police, for every thread in the fabric of our community. And none of that money was spent to make us safer.

Millions of innocent lives have been destroyed by US military action in Iraq. Are we so egocentric as a society to ignore the injustice in attacking and invading a sovereign nation? Or lacking in empathy to see the Iraqi anger that is fermenting from this invasion? The reality is that the US has caused destruction that destabilizes an entire region, affecting hundreds of millions of lives. The reality is that the neocons continue a drumbeat of war to renew their coffers. The reality is that the current administration uses terror as tool, no less so than the terrorists they purport to battle.

There is an elemental wisdom that transcends time and place. That wisdom offered by Socrates, Buddha, Confucious and others is that we should ask questions, of ourselves and of society. For knowledge, for enlightenment, for responsibility, we must question. In light of this simple wisdom, we must ask questions of our leaders. "Why" is a pillar of freedom. Why were we systematically lied to about prior knowledge of the 9/11 plot. Why was French intelligence ignored? Why did the towers collapse like a controlled demolition. Why were there no explosives forensics allowed on the rubble. Why was there a powerdown of security systems prior to the attack. Why were bomb sniffing dogs removed. There are so many questions unanswered, so much debate silenced under the the suffocating muffle of flag and cross.

We repeat history's mistakes. A nation stands by as innocents die. Was Nazi Germany so different? Is our jingoism and religious fervor no less manipulated? When we stop questioning, when we allow debate to be controlled by an elite cadre of avarice, we allow atrocities to be committed. Our government has not been investigated nor have they been held accountable for its hand in 9/11. Nor has it been held accountable for the crimes it has committed in Iraq. Why is the question we should all be asking.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am a regular viewer of Bill Moyers Journal and applaud you for giving voice to so many courageous people. I'm dismayed, however, that you have not incorporated any of the dozens and dozens of questions being posed by the 911Truth.org movement. There are critical holes in the official 9/11 story regarding WTC7, the Pentagon crash, the Twin Towers collapse, and the Pennsylvania crash. Polls are registering huge percentages of people who believe that key members of the American government were complicit in the attack (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040830120349841). Many of the brightest technical minds are on board with this. Many key people in positions of authority are also.
I personally believe, after much reading and investigation, that 9/11 was a false-flag operation that allowed the present government to go to war and take away civil liberties. These latter two issues are frequent topics on your program.
Please take a moment to look into events of 9/11 with a fresh perspective. It is a brave step, but it is one that could lead to the real truth, the truth that we must have. Please do not dismiss the questions, nor the inconvenient answers until you have read the arguments. Droves and droves of people are seeing the light as I see it. Please come along with us on this quest. - ricep, New York City

Jesse, you refuse to believe the obvious when it comes to Bush but quickly believe anything negative about Clinton. As an independent I hold all accountable.

That's more reality for ya. 9/11 an inside job... puleez.

I am a regular viewer of Bill Moyers Journal and applaud you for giving voice to so many courageous people. I'm dismayed, however, that you have not incorporated any of the dozens and dozens of questions being posed by the 911Truth.org movement. There are critical holes in the official 9/11 story regarding WTC7, the Pentagon crash, the Twin Towers collapse, and the Pennsylvania crash. Polls are registering huge percentages of people who believe that key members of the American government were complicit in the attack (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040830120349841). Many of the brightest technical minds are on board with this. Many key people in positions of authority are also.
I personally believe, after much reading and investigation, that 9/11 was a false-flag operation that allowed the present government to go to war and take away civil liberties. These latter two issues are frequent topics on your program.
Please take a moment to look into events of 9/11 with a fresh perspective. It is a brave step, but it is one that could lead to the real truth, the truth that we must have. Please do not dismiss the questions, nor the inconvenient answers until you have read the arguments. Droves and droves of people are seeing the light as I see it. Please come along with us on this quest. - ricep, New York City

Your reality I think is peyote-laced, with all due respect. I think your continual posting of "The real reason we're in Iraq" is something you have saved on your computer and you post that same thing on every blog you find. No way someone repeats themselves like that in verbatim unless they have it saved. If that's true, then that's really disturbing. You can have your own take on reality. I want no part of it.

To: Jesse Norman

Go ahead and live with your attitude against Clinton if it makes you happy. If you have time open your mind up to reality.

I hate people that's the one true emotion that calls me out to challenge them to a difficult round of it...I was born to stick the needle in the balloon heads of the world...
gary alan brumley

You guys really are funny with your views. What if I don't get rid of the chip on my shoulder over Clinton? Get real. Jay P, if you were speaking on this thread you'd sound like a tape recorder. This is the third time you've said that same exact thing, one on another thread. Guess what I asked three times to you... in case you didn't answer correctly, it was "WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?????!!!!!" I still haven't got an answer.

To: Jesse Norman
You seem to make many assumptions when it relates to Clinton but are very defensive with Bush. Get rid of the big chip on your shoulder.
The Real Reason We're In Iraq:
An influential group of conservatives convinced President George W. Bush that it was in America's best interests to conquer Iraq as a first step toward dominating the oil-producing nations in the Middle East. There was no "exit plan" because we never intended to exit. The plan was, and is, to build military bases in Iraq and stay there forever. Our leaders see Iraq as a place to make money. So Bush & Co. have set up their friends to cash in on the rebuilding of Iraq.

If you have not let your congress critters know your views on impeaching the current occupant and his puppet master I strongly encourage you to do so. If you do not know how to contact these people here is a URL that will help resolve that small item http://www.conservativeusa.org/mega-cong.htm

Let your elected officials know what you are thinking and what you'd like them to do, while there is still time and before all your rights are taken away by the imperial shrub.

While the Congress hesitates to impeach the President and Vice President, what are the alternatives for citizens who think that the President and Vice President have committed crimes against the nation? For instance, is making a collective citizen's arrest a possibility?

"A strong argument can be made that the right to make a citizen's arrest is a constitutionally protected right under the Ninth Amendment as its impact includes the individual's natural right to self preservation and the defense of the others. Indeed, the laws of citizens arrest appear to be predicated upon the effectiveness of the Second Amendment. Simply put, without firepower, people are less likely going to be able to make a citizen's arrest. A random sampling of the various states as well as the District of Columbia indicates that a citizen's arrest is valid when a public offense was committed in the presence of the arresting private citizen or when the arresting private citizen has a reasonable belief that the suspect has committed a felony, whether or not in the presence of the arresting citizen." (For details, see http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm.)

If committing a felony is the benchmark for determining whether a crime has been committed, are violations of their oath of office felonies. For instance, if they violated their oath to support and defend the constitution of the United States, is that violation a felony?

You've said quite a mouthful Deep Throat. Let's see if I can break down your list:

1. Failed to prevent 9/11: well Bush wasn't even in office for 9 months when it happened. Although I don't feel he did enough if anything at all to prevent it, Al Qaeda was hitting us all over the world when Clinton was in office and Clinton did absolutely nothing about any attack.
2. Failed to kill Osama: you're right, he did. Here's something you won't like reading though. Sudan offered Clinton three times for them to capture Bin Laden, ship him to Saudi Arabia where we could then take him. Clinton said "we can't get him on anything under international law" so he refused. He denies this, but he was caught on audio tape not only getting these offers but declining.
3. Manipulating emotion for Iraq war: I totally disagree, but that's just my opinion as it is yours.
4. Blaming Katrina on Bush is just foolish. While he may have not acted quick enough, the citizens who were trapped in New Orleans were supposed to have been evacuated. Mayor Nagin released a free dvd a year before Katrina saying if there was a Cat. 3 hurricane or higher that they would evacuate the city. Those who had no way of leaving would have school buses escort them out of the city. This didn't happen in Katrina. New Orleans didn't evacuate and the buses were left under the water just like everything else. Is Bush supposed to tell the mayor and governor to evacuate their own citizens? No, that's their job. Blaming Bush for this is ludicrous.
5. Partisan Supreme Court: Bush is President and can nominate who he wants.
6. Corruption in congress is Bush's fault? Republicans had Abramov and the democrats have Hsu. What's the difference? There is one... Hsu was a fugitive from the law for larceny when he did his fundraising. Wound up giving $850,000 to Hillary Clinton. The addresses of those who donated, collected by Hsu gave as much as many of their homes were worth.
6. I'll skip down to global warming: Did you know Mars is warming even at a faster rate than Earth? According to NASA Mars has gone up .65 degrees celsius while Earth has gone up .60 degrees celsius. NASA came to that conclusion because of Mars' polar caps. When I was a kid I remember the consensus among scientists was that we were in an ice age. Remember that one? Made the cover of Time magazine even. Since they have talked about global warming for the last twenty years or better, that means within a decade scientists went from ice age to global warming. How does that happen? Can man create such a warming? Nope. Only the Sun can. That explains the warming of Mars too, unless you believe Bush is warming Mars by lasers.

Most of these are too easy, but you get my point. I agree with the outsourcing of jobs big time, but who adopted NAFTA? Clinton did. Remember Gore arguing with Perot on Larry King in that debate where Gore was arguing for NAFTA? We're still losing jobs to NAFTA and Mexico has only gotten worse. I can play these games all you want. Gotta do better than this. Dividing our nation happened when the left cried about how Al lost the election with all of those silly allegations about how Bush stole it. Even Bill Maher admitted nothing illegal or wrong happened and he hates Bush. Those votes in Florida with the hanging chads were counted by the press. According to the media who was in on the counting, Bush gained votes, not lost them. They probably wanted Gore to win in their count because that would have been a huge story. Bush gaining votes obviously wasn't. Releasing spy ID... the woman sent her own husband. DUH! Who's not going to know? She even said she doesn't know whether or not she was undercover at that time. Did you watch her testimony on Capitol Hill? Sorry, had to get to a few more.

Carol, the info I got I found online which was done by the media research center. Glad you don't like the extremist views because a lot do. Moveon.org will be emboldened since NONE of the democratic presidential candidates not only denounced the ad, but gave it credence by parroting it.

Deep Throat, those were too easy.

With all of these failures, there's gotta be something to impeach this one.

1) Failed to prevent 9/11
2) Failed to Kill Osama
3) Manipulating 9/11 emotion to lead us into Iraq War
4) Katrina
5) Partisan Supreme Court.
6) Corruption in Congress
7) Corruction in Business
8) Tax relief for Haves.
9) Uncontrolled Medical coverage.
10) Record deficit/debt.
11) Rising oil costs.
12) Global Warming.
13) Ignoring Genocides and world pandemic diseases.
14) Ignoring War on Drug.
15) Illegal Aliens.
16) Off-shoring US jobs.
17) Dependency in foreign manufacturing facilities.
18) Failed financial regulations.
19) Shrinking middle class, increasing gap between haves and have nots.
20) Loss of credibility in the world and weakening world alliances.
21) Violating Civil Liberty.
22) Releasing spy ID.
23) Refusing to cooperate with GAO, FBI, CIA, Congress by hiding behind executive privileges and national security.
24) DIVIDING OUR NATION.

Thank you, Jesse. We do agree on some things. You have a point. Personally, I take extremist comments with a grain of salt. I don't believe we had much choice but, to trust the President's decision to go to war based on what he and the media presented. If it's technically a war, a not is debatable. I don't know where you are getting your information but, I understood Moyer's to say that the D.C. press tend to be the President's righthand man. At any rate, I don't believe anything should be based on surface value and find a complex world deserves better. The transparency we often hear about and that is so desperately needed becomes the center when we turn away from lies and deception in times of desperation or otherwise. It starts with each of us(me).

Finally we seem to agree on something Carol. There is another thread on here from a show done by Moyers about how the press was complicit in convincing the country in going to war in Iraq. Of course many people actually bought this. No one in the press was "afraid" to criticize Bush because they have done it from day one. Is that a bad thing? No, of course not. But Moyers trying to convince people the press was Bush's right hand man is ludicrous. There's further evidence of the liberal bias in the media when Moveon.org received a hefty discount for putting that ad up about General Petraeus by the NY Times. Supposedly they received a $100,000 discount. The Times gave some bs excuse as to why they did, but anyone with any keen sense could see through that. Carol, your point to me beforehand was that the press wasn't honest. Which side were they going towards dishonesty? It would be the left wouldn't it? Obviously the NY Times weren't thinking of profits when it gave Moveon.org their discount. Obviously the print media isn't thinking about profits since their bias has turned many away from buying newspapers. Actually they can't resist themselves. Newspaper subscriptions are dwindling by the day. I don't think they really care about profits because their profits are down. Sounds logical, right?

I'm a realist and I don't try to see things just to validate my own opinion. I don't twist and turn things to suit my suspicions. I don't cheat myself with that kind of logical thinking. MLM you said you were a republican for many years but hated the rhetoric of the right. Have you heard of the rhetoric on the left, which is by far worse than the right? Moveon.org owns the democratic party. What happened this week when democratic politicians accused the General of the same thing as the Moveon ad did was despicable. You had a compulsive liar in Hillary Clinton call an honored General a liar. Dems all over the place called him a liar after many sang his praises as they casted their vote. None of them dared to question Petraeus as to why he would lie and then soon send off his own son to Iraq. When Bill Clinton was called a murderer by the far right over the death of Vince Foster, the republicans denounced it. When Moveon.org says anything the democrats nod in agreement. How many times have you heard Bush called "a nazi" or "Hitler", yet the democrats are loudly silent. Listen to the rhetoric on the left and see how it's NOT denounced.

Wait til '08 and see the rhetoric on the left with a more powerful Moveon machine. You might have heard in the '00 election about how if you vote for Bush another black church will burn. That will be nothing. When the american people see the rhetoric on the far left and see how it's not denounced by dems and vote for the republican, I really see Moveon.org possibly totally taking over the democratic party. They do say they have bought and paid for the democratic party. I have to agree with them.

Good point, MLM. Blogs can be addicting but, please, pace yourself. I believe your input is quite valuable and wouldn't want to lose touch. I believe that there are more that strive for the center are in more numbers than we've heard from or about. It gives me a sense of hope.

These Blogs are too addicting.

When it comes to the press, these old ideas of Right and Left leaning really no longer apply.

Today the press and the media have been consolidated into huge Corporations.
The driving force is profit, shareholders, and stock prices.

If anything they have all shifted to the right, because the right is completely pro business and deregulation.

One thing for sure, the idea that the media plays a valuable roll in keeping democracy in check is lost.

The reason this blog appears so one-sided is that it seems to be the only place where this point of view can see the light of day.

I am not excited about either party either. But not participating is NO option. My family heritage goes back, on at least three branches, to the 16 and 17 hundreds on these shores. Radical passionate individualism just runs in the family.

My political strategy at this point is to use my vote to try and bring the pendulum back closer to the center.

Thanks for your comments, MLM. I'm glad you just took a break and weren't away for long. Sadly, I'm not very impressed with any of the politicians. Right now I don't see myself at any party affiliation. Facilitating the truth in for democracy and freedom takes a joint effort in diplomacy and understanding without deception. It is a process that requires civil contemplation and debate. The occurances and exposure of that is, sadly, not a standard that is used enough today. We all have choices as well as responsibilities that must be addressed. Jesse, I don't know anyone is naive here except maybe the politicans, if they think the lies and deception will work for them, at least, in the long run.

You know I grew up believeing this BS about the press.
This is the debate that is truly irrelevant and trivial -- this seeking to demonize the opposition. It is a totally non-productive debate that diverts the masses from debating the real issues that affect our lives.

In order for America to work, it takes both the Left and the Right. What makes our County GREAT and keeps everything in check is the DEBATE between the two, NOT the annihilation of one over the other, as if it were a cockfight, as seems to be the mission of the Republican Party.

And, I say that not out of what I hear from the press but by the language of the automated phone calls and letters soliciting donations from the Republican Party. (I was a card-carrying member until recently) Also I receive this same rhetoric from my Republican representatives when they respond to my letters. Having been a conservative for 52 years, it is the Right Wing Rhetoric that has changed my viewpoint. Everything about the current regime is about shutting down debate by demonizing anyone that disagrees. THIS IS A DANGEROUS TREND.

I have lived through total Democratic control and now total Republican control. I speak from my own experience, I personally have NEVER experienced fear that my fundamental constitutional freedoms were in jeopardy until today -- freedom of speech, separation of church and state (which is the fundamental key to freedom of religion), freedom to be secure in my affairs under the 4th amendment. I see all of these eroding into an Elitist Theocracy reminiscent of 18th Century England -- conservative vs. liberal has just replace the 18th century protestant vs. catholic. The world has traveled down that road and we don’t need to revisit it, to do so is truly unAmerican.

In fact the key threat her is Elitism, which is running rampant on all sides.

Sadly, I don’t see any hope in the Democrats either

Well I'm not naive. I realize we don't live in Utopia where everything is at it seems or right. My friends think I'm actually quite savvy. Even the liberal ones. A lot don't like what I have to say, but they definitely respect what I say since they do know I know what I am talking about. Hey, it's a gift.

I know most on here won't agree with this, but the press mostly is left leaning. This story and others on PBS are just a small example. Do you recall the Moyer's piece "Let's Get Clinton Impeached"? I don't either because it never happened. MSNBC collected data on 143 journalists who made donations from the 2004 through the start of the 2008 campaigns, 125 gave to democrats or liberal causes while only 16 gave to republicans. 2 gave to both parties. Can't say MSNBC is right-wing since Joe Scarborough said the MSNBC newsroom booed when Bush was speaking at the State of the Union address in 2003.

In 1992, 89% of Washington based reporters voted for Clinton. In 2004, 52% of tv and newspaper journalists voted for Kerry, 19% for Bush, and 21% refused to answer. Let's split those who didn't answer and say Kerry had at least 62% of the vote from journalists. When asked "generally speaking do you consider yourself a democrat, republican, independent, or something else?", 33% said they were democrats while 10% said they were republicans.

Foxnews does lean to the right. The only reason why they look so far right though is because everyone else leans left. No one would care if Foxnews leaned to the right except they are doing very well in the ratings. See how I'm willing to admit Foxnews leans to the right? Will anyone else here admit most of the media leans to the left? I doubt it. Who's the naive one?

Jesse, I give President Bush, Republicans and even Democrats a fair chance to prove themselves worthy of govering us, but if you think that all journalism can be trusted and facilitates the truth in democracy and freedom such as the stories 9/11 and subsequent outbreak of war in Iraq, I find you quite naive. What I would like to know is... when does the healing begin with such outright "picking?" When we are not diplomatic enough, there is no choice but, war. A new administration would at least give us hope for peace, if, and maybe if, we can show them by example.

Meant dyslexia. Darn typos.

The evidence is in the 9/11 Report which was done by a bipartisan commission. Looks like they posted my comment afterall, only a day after I sent it. I'm sure some postings don't get through for whatever reasons but if you look at the other threads and it's at least 99-1 against Bush or the war. I've also seen the wackiest contributions on here as well. A lot of anti-Israeli sentiment, too. Yeah, blame the only civilized country in the region for protecting it's sliver of land against the continent scale lands of arabia.

Didn't know you were dyxlexic. In my first post I did ask if you meant WWII and really didn't know what you meant about "freighting". I assumed "frightening" but didn't know.

Jessie

I am sure your posts not getting uploaded is due to user error, the same has happened to my post and I never took it personally, as I have reposted from a word document and they uploaded just fine.

Thank you for pointing out my typos, and obvious problem with dyslexia. I really appreciate that, so kind of you. Of course I intended to say WWII.

I disagree that Bush “never” said that Iraq was responsible for attacking us on 9/11. I listened to him with my own two ears. He clearly connected the two and NO one would have made that connection with out the Bush propaganda. But I am sure you hung on his every word and were able to catch his every speech.

Show me the evidence that Saddam and Al Qaeda were connected, because the opinions and reports I have listened to say differently. The nonpartisan analysis that seems most reasonable points out that Saddam saw Bin Lauden as a threat to his power, he was much too paranoid of a dictator to allow Al Qaeda to operate out of Iraq. In my opinion this rings true.

Saddam was focused on two things, the local power play to control the Persian Gulf between Iran, Saudi Arabia and himself and his insane tribal hatred for his own citizens. These two things are what prompted him to invade Kuwait, which prompted the first Gulf War. He wanted Kuwait because the other two major players control so much more coastline and this inhibits his ability to compete in shipping his oil. Saddam was an insane, ruthless and evil character with no redeeming qualities. I am sure he is burning in hell. But, it is quite likely he never really had plans to attack the US, his neighbors for sure, but the US … his world was much, much too small.

Oh and by the way, I never supported, liked or voted for Bill Clinton. In my opinion he is just another sleazy Politician who cannot control his behavior. I have always agreed that he inherited the good economy rather than create it. And failed to see or take action to prevent 9/11. Passing the looming crises on to Bush. This is why I defended Bush in the beginning. But, I also do not think that anyone, including the terrorist could have anticipated what actually happened – the two buildings collapsing. So blaming in hindsight is really not a productive thing to do.

I still believe that if we give up our most basic freedoms we have let the terrorist win.
And I still believe this is what is happening. This administration response is DEAD wrong as far as I am concerned and rather that winning the war on terror we are just fanning the flames, giving justification to their hatred and feeding our own irrational fear.

I am really honest when I say I would rather die in another terrorist attack than to give up my basic liberty under the Constitution and live in a country that is not free.

I have grown weary of this discussion so I am signing off. Have a happy life.

Please excuse any typos or misspellings, spell check and unfortunately I are not perfect.

I guess I'll have to repeat what I tried to send earlier but wasn't posted. I think it was my nicest post too. Weird that I have read some postings calling Bush a murderer made it with no problem. No bias at all though.

I have never heard anyone in the administration say "Iraq was behind 9/11". It never happened, so what the poll shows is people will believe anything and certainly will believe what they want to believe. I can read postings here and say it's definitely not a one-sided flaw. Saying Bush or the administration tried to convince us that Iraq was linked to 9/11 is completely false. It never happened. What the Bush administration however said was there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda, which there was. It is evident from the documents we've recovered as well as the knowledge that Al Zarqawi was treated in Baghdad before the war.

As far as comparing war speeches go, you can do that with anyone. You have to be smarter than that. What are speeches that rally people to war supposed to sound like? It doesn't even have to be about war. I bet if I had to I can find similar statements from Reagan and Ghandi. Were Ghandi and Reagan alike? No. What does 'freighting' mean? You lost me there. Hitler wasn't around in WWI either. I do strongly agree that the administration was very adamant about admitting mistakes, which made things worse. Rumsfeld was horrible and I celebrated the day he finally resigned. If I had more money I might have even invited all of you. Okay, I wouldn't have. I've never done drugs and I don't want to get a contact high. I guess also Jay P. is having trouble obtaining that evidence I have been waiting to see.

In an effort to rally support for a war, any speech will have similarities. That's just common sense. If I had to I could point out things how Reagansaid things that sounded like Ghandi. See, one can do that without comparing speeches on war, so that means nothing. Were Reagan and Ghandi two peas in a pod? No. Did you mean WWII? Because Hitler wasn't anything in WWI.

As far as the poll goes people will believe what they want to believe. What you accuse the administration of doing is simply not true. I have never heard of anyone in the administration say that Saddam was responsible for 9/11, therefore not being able to persuade people of believing such a thing. They did say there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda which was true. The more time went by the more documents were found linking them together. Al Zarqawi was in Iraq before the war and received treatment on a wounded leg in Baghdad. There are other things linking Saddam with Al Qaeda which you can find on the net. If anything the administration didn't differentiate one terrorist or terrorist organization from the other, which it shouldn't do. There are many with the same objective and there's no amount of appeasement that will make them change their minds.

While I agree we should have concentrated more on getting Bin Laden, the status quo of the Iraqi situation was unacceptable. The UN loved Saddam despite his crimes because they got money and cheap oil. Who are the real criminals? Who really should be impeached? Why does the UN even exist when it runs away from its own charter time and time again? My question for all of you is do you believe we should go into Darfur even if and when the UN says 'no, we won't do anything'?

Several people have objected to the comparison of this Administration and Hitler. I agree that this is a strong statement and of course has a strong element of hyperbole. I in no way wish to say that the leadership in Washington even comes close to that level of insanity and evil.

Still there are, I believe some freighting similarities, in the tactics and inflammatory rhetoric that have and continue to come from this Administration. Rhetoric used to build support for the invasion of Iraq when our justifiable retaliation for 9/11 belonged with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The use of fear for persuasion, the demonizing of opponents, the unwillingness to admit mistakes, the refusal to change the tone of this rhetoric even after it was made clear that the basis for entry was false…is what concerns me most.

According to a Harris poll

In 2004 41% and still in 2005 22% of Americans believed Saddam Hussein helped plan and support the hijackers who attacked the U.S. on September 11, 2001.

In 2005 24% of Americans still believe several of the hijackers who attacked the U.S. on September 11 were Iraqis.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=623

Neither of which has been proven true. This belief was fostered by this Administration.
This is clearly, in my opinion, cause for alarm. I cannot say why this Administration was so intent on attacking a country that, no matter how evil and corrupt it was, did nothing to provoke our attack. And posed no immediate danger to the US.

I am reading a book about WWI at the moment. In it are several quotes form Hitler, to me there are obvious similarities to the tactics used by this Administration to sell this War.

“I shall give a propagandist reason for starting the war no matter whether it is plausible or not. The vector will not be asked afterwards whether he told the truth or not. When starting and waging war, it is not right that matters by victory.” Adolph Hitler

“The broad mass of a people…falls victim to a big lie more easily that to a small one.” Adolph Hitler

“ But the masses are slow moving, and they always require a certain time before they are ready even to notice a thing, and only after the simplest ideas are repeated thousands of time will the masses finally remember them…” Adolph Hitler

Absolutely, Jay P. Still didn't tell me where your evidence is.

Sorry, to intrude Jay P but, you might be over simplifying the situation. Technically, Bush & Company's motives to directly benefit from Iraq's oil would be a conflict of interest and, I believe, grounds for impeachment. I'm glad the military study came out in the news today that we need to take "lighter steps" in Iraq and move closer to ending the war without occupation and it's a relief to hear from hearts that may be in the right place. How the President responds seems to be the difference between him being able to then keep his job to the end of this term or not. It'll be interesting how it plays out. It also seems that the executive branch is watering down the responsibilities of the legislative and judicial branches as well... other items in Pandora's Box.

To: Jesse Norman
Thanks for your comments. Let me ask you this, if this war was started so Bush and Co. could benefit from the oil and taxpayer expense, would that be an impeachable offense?

Jay P, where is your evidence of this? You know what evidence is, right? I can make up stuff all I want too but just because I can come up with it in my mind, it doesn't make it fact. Please tell us if you were a fly on the wall when all of this was supposedly discussed. I'd be interested in reading it. I'm tired of all this "American imperialism" talk. Name a country we have really taken over and kept. I don't recall ever hearing the saying "the sun never sets on america". If we went into Iraq because of oil, then how come oil is so high-priced throughout the world, not just in our country. Why do I have a big chip on my shoulder because of Clinton? Because he was very corrupt and I'm sure hardly any of you actually accept that he was. The only thing he really got credit for was a good economy and that was falsely accredited. He was just president at the right time with the internet boom. Just as he was leaving we had the internet bust. Al Gore should have gotten the credit for the economy since he invented the internet.

Carol, you make a very good point. One side pits against the other almost like in a play. There's the good side and the bad side. Each side sees the other as the bad side, although I never heard Clinton compared to Hitler on the right like Bush has been nearly on a daily basis. It's almost like it's a setup. While most of America is in the middle, both parties play to their bases and nothing gets done. They worry more about playing "gotcha" than solving our nation's problems. My points have been consistent that selective anger does nothing because both sides have it. When a president is elected, he will have selective outrage pitted against him. That's the state of our country right now. If we left Iraq right now, what happened in Vietnam after we left would pale in comparison. You can argue whether or not we should have gone in and if we screwed up or not. Saying Bush lied though is delusional considering every democrat who said Saddam had WMD's along with every country in the world, Clinton, and Hans Blix must have been in on the lie. We all know that's not true I hope.

It's obviously too easy to point fingers and take sides. Does truth in democracy and freedom require that we choose either Democrats or Republicans? I'm glad the discussion goes on. As far as what the majority thinks or does about impeachment now or what was previously done remains to be seen. Fighting a war is part of a process. There are battles won and lost, a journey. Is it our place to make Iraq a US occupation? The need for it remains to be seen. It's only then that will we find our destiny whether to end the war or not. We have not found the necessary leadership with the UN? It seems not. Discussion and Debate has it's purpose yet, let's not expect the required action to be proficiently done with too much delay.

To: Jesse Norman
You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder concerning Clinton. Why don't you focus on the present?

The Real Reason We're In Iraq:
An influential group of conservatives convinced President George W. Bush that it was in America's best interests to conquer Iraq as a first step toward dominating the oil-producing nations in the Middle East. There was no "exit plan" because we never intended to exit. The plan was, and is, to build military bases in Iraq and stay there forever. Our leaders see Iraq as a place to make money. So Bush & Co. have set up their friends to cash in on the rebuilding of Iraq.

Charles, who are the people? It seems like most of you think that the majority of the country wants impeachment. Maybe the majority of people YOU all know, but not the majority in the country. Accept it. Selective outrage over corruption gets nowhere because it's just that, selective. Clinton was the most corrupt of any President ever. Much more corrupt than Bush supposedly is. Clinton did so many things that people don't even remember the majority of them because the sheer number is too voluminous to take in. Clinton was said to have "a scandal a day". That was said by Jerry Brown who ran against him in 1992 for the democratic ticket. Not a republican. And that was BEFORE Clinton became President. It wasn't just about his affairs either. Why don't you all get mad at politicians on both sides who are corrupt? How many of you contacted your congressman or woman or senator and ask to at least censure LA Congressman William Jefferson who was found to have $90,000 in cold hard cash (literally) in his freezer? I reckon none of you. I contacted my representatives over this. I also contacted my representatives over the Tom Delay situation. How much outrage was there among you when Gerry Studds had sex with an underage male page and then when re-elected received a standing ovation by the democratic caucus? William Jefferson also received a standing ovation by the black congressional caucus. Where was the outrage? Democrats will say "well the people of Louisiana re-elected him. Let the process work itself out and see if he is convicted. Then he will be removed". Selective outrage means absolutely nothing because both sides have it.

I recently sent this letter to the Contra Costa Times in northern California.

In the July 28th edition of the West County Times, Representative George Miller explained the Democratic Party’s reasons for not impeaching President Bush and Vice President Cheney. According to Rep. Miller, the Democrats are so busy ending the war they simply don’t have time to impeach corrupt politicians.

Based on all the most recent Presidential approval polls, most citizens would disagree with Rep. Miller and the Democratic leadership. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the Democrats voted for the war. Now, of course, they claim they were ignorant of the facts leading to the invasion of Iraq. I wonder if they even bothered reading any of the many books and articles suggesting that the invasion of Iraq would be a horrendous mistake and that there was no justification for it. The Democrats have failed to bring an end to an illegal war, which they promised they would do. They failed to restore our constitutional rights and they failed to bring the perpetrators of war crimes to justice.

Rather than address these pressing issues, the Democrats focus solely on who will run for president in 2008. When we listen closely to what the candidates are saying we realize they have no plan to end the war. Our sons and daughters are dying and being seriously wounded on a daily basis in what Rep. Miller admits is an unjustified war.

Impeachment is possible. Members of the legal profession and constitutional scholars have prepared the case. All the Democrats need to do is start the proceedings. Republicans will see which way the wind blows once the evidence is presented and they will be forced to act responsibly or lose future elections. So what are the Democrats afraid of? They are afraid that if Bush and Cheney were removed from office, Nancy Pelosi would become president and have to deal with the real issue: how to end the war and restore our constitutional rights. Instead, they would prefer to allow the war to continue, blame the Republicans for the quagmire in Iraq and walk into power in 2008. In the meantime, the criminals are free to continue living the good life, while our soldiers continue to die and become disabled. Our taxes will pay for this insanity while our country’s infrastructure collapses and the quality of our lives continues on a downward spiral.

The people demand accountability, impeach!

Charles T. Smith
Richmond, CA

That is my point, Jesse, there is no place for complacency whether middle ground or not. Thank you for your integrity. I just see a lot of corruption in today's world and without firm, decisive actions in leadership or elsewhere like, at least, careful consideration of impeachment and possible removal from office of the President and others we are doomed to fail. We can do it by being diplomatic...direct, firm, and kind. I do not have the gift of gab for a lot detail but, with intent as a generalist I can readily focus on the big picture.

You do not seriously think Clinton only lied about sex in the oval office do you? If Bill Clinton told you the sky was blue, I know you'd look up just to make sure, just as I would. I laid out many things Clinton did and could have listed many more, and they're undeniable. I won't get into Whitewater even though something wasn't right there, to me it's not an issue. You don't think Clinton had Janet Reno stop those investigations that looked into his dealings on different fronts? Aren't those impeachable offenses? If you believe Bush lied about WMD's, then you must believe Hans Blix, Clinton, Gore, Senator Clinton, Putin, Chirac, China, Jordan, and just about every other member of the UN lied too about Saddam having WMD's. Clinton in the months leading up to the Iraqi war said Saddam had WMD's. None of those I listed I would consider "Bush-friendly".

For those who want to do something about impeachment:
H. Res. 333, the bill put forth by Dennis Kucinich to impeach Cheney, now has 19 co-sponsors. Sign the petition at http://impeachcheney.org/ and a message will be sent to your representative in congress. Over 117,000 have already signed.

I am still hoping that Bill Moyers will have Dennis Kucinich on to discuss H. Res, 333.

Dennis Kucinich has spoken out against the Bush administration's war on Iraq and now he is speaking out against war with Iran:
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/newsroom/bush-setting-stage-for-war-with-iran/

There are more reasons than ever to impeach Cheney; many are afraid that he will do anything to pull us into a war with Iran.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-gareth-porter/cheney-lieberman-and-ira_b_60705.html
http://saywhen.wordpress.com/2007/08/27/letter-from-mckinney-sheehan-tarpley-and-kaminsky-warning-of-a-cheney-backed-new-911/

And for those who are wondering where the protesters are: There are ongoing protests -- a good place to start is: http://worldcantwait.org/

Clinton lied about having sex with a woman in the oval office.

Bush lied to the American people and the world about the reasons for waging war against another country that was of no imediate threat to the US.

Bush circumvented the 4th amendment and continues to put American citizens under surveillance with out warrant.

Bush has circumvented international law concerning the treatment of prisoners of war.

I'd say what Clinton did and what Bush is doing cannot even be compared.

I do not take impeachment lightly, impeaching Clinton In my opinion was politically motivated. But, in this case I think we are talking about our core freedoms under the constitution.

Impeachment was put in place by the founding Fathers as a last resort way for the people to correct the situation when the balance of power becomes so one sided that Democracy is threatened. It is my opinion we are at such a point in History.

For me it is not about party bickering. This is about keeping American Democracy and Freedom alive.

I have felt for some years now that it is increasingly in jeopardy.

I agree we don't want to make this a trend. But that risk is a much less than the current one where the executive branch has more power than is cnstitutionally given or intended.

In this case it will be the people who call for this action not political adversaries.

I actually supported Bush in the begainning. Was impressed with hearing him speak in person before the first ellection. Agreed with the retalitory action on Afganistan who actually harbored and trained those who attacked us on 9/11. And, I was taken in by the lies about Iraq for a while. But it is now clear that there was and continues to be a hidden agenda, one that I do not support.

I do not see any aother choice here but for the PEOPLE to demand corrective action be taken.

Again thank you Bill for opening up the discussion.

First of all Jeff, I'm sorry for your health situation. I myself have chronic kidney failure, so I will be fortunate if I do see 49. Why I have my health problems is because my father was exposed to Agent Orange while he served in Vietnam. Because of his exposure, I have IgA which caused later on proteinuria and hematuria, so I know what you must be going through with your health. I understood your post just fine. If I worked for the republican party or Rove, I'd have to be a follower. To be totally upfront, I am a registered democrat. The reason why I keep bringing up Clinton's impeachment is because Clinton actually did impeachable things, but there was not a program called "Let's Get The Conversation Rolling About Impeaching Clinton" on any network. Not even Fox. I'm all for letting go of the past, but my point was that this is very hypocritical. Many of the ones who were saying bad things (rightfully so) about those who wanted Clinton impeached are now talking about impeachng Bush. That's hypocrisy to the Nth degree. People do disagree with leaders of both parties on major issues and still keep their reputation as being honorable people who's not impersonating Joe Bloke while actually working for one of the major parties.

Carol, as far as being in the middle being equal to complacency I fully disagree. Although my health keeps me from doing all I want in making my voice heard on issues, I do contact my congressman and senators pretty regularly. My congressman is Visclosky, a democrat, and has done a good job. One of my senators, Bayh has done a great job. If the democrats were smart, they'd really look into this guy. In order to impeach a president, they must do something REALLY bad in my opinion as is the opinion of most in the country. I don't believe what Bush has done warrants impeachment, and neither did Clinton. It would harm this country greatly to remove a president, and would be the start of a horrible road where impeaching presidents would be an issue with EVERY president from then on. Do you want to go down that road? I don't

It actually gives me the "warm fuzzies" to read a blog that attracts so many educated participants.

My knowledge is always expanded by watching the Journal and reading the blogs for this series.

Several nights ago, I had the pleasure of attending a lecture given by the lead attorney for Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, the case that challenged the constitutionality of military trials at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Neal Katyal won that case and his remarkable lecture truly gave me hope.

Katyal reminded us that Hamdan, a man with a fourth grade education who served as bin Laden's driver, was able to sue the two most powerful men in the world, Bush and Rumsfeld, and win. While I am disheartened that the suit was won only after a man who should have had a presumption of innocence had served years in Gitmo, suffering isolation, a lack of representation, and what anyone subjected to it would call torture, he did win.

After the lecture the host reminded us that the kind of freedoms we have taken for granted do not represent the systems under which most of the world lives now or ever has. There have only a handful of times in history when free societies flourished. They have been few and infrequent and have never lasted more than a few hundred years. The general thinking of the American citizen is that things are cyclical and that this too shall pass. History does not support that view. History reveals that the freedom we have is a fragile thing that will vanish if not vigorously defended.

If we allow what has happened over the last few years to go without serious consequence, we will lose the America we cherish. Impeachment is the only means by which we can declare that the actions of this administration are unacceptable and will not be allowed now or in the future. We failed to make this distinction when we accepted the pardon of Richard Nixon. That was a mistake for which we are now paying.

Compared to Watergate, the crimes of this administration, violation of the constitution they were sworn to uphold, violation of U.S. and international law, and violation of the trust of the American people, the crimes of this administration are truly high crimes and misdemeanors and some would argue, treason.

Many of you will undoubtedly think to yourselves "I can't believe she said that in a public venue!" That ill feeling you would have before you hit the send button if you wrote the same thing is the canary in the mine. As Wilson/Plame proves that this administration that is willing to act in retribution. That said, I believe the future of our nation is at stake.

I hope everyone reading this will speak out, write the papers, call your elected representatives and remind them of the oath of office they swore. Call Speaker Pelosi’s office and tell her she has no right to take impeachment “off the table”. Her job is to lead the “peoples house” and represent the people of the United States of America by defending the Constitution of the United States. That cannot happen with Alberto Gonzales in the office of the Attorney General operating under the mistaken belief that it is his job to protect and defend the incompetence and arrogance of the man who sits in the office of the presidency.

I know I am preaching to the choir and for that I apologize. But more and more frequently I voice my opinion and someone tells me that they thought they were the only one who saw what was happening. They tell me they don’t see the people on TV talking about it, “even on the Sunday morning shows”. We must be visible, we must show others that it IS acceptable to tell the truth and defend this nation.

We elected a Democratic congress in 2006 and yet the "lame duck" President continues to flaunt the Constitution and act more like a monarch than a public servant. Congress does nothing. Too many are in the thrall of the special interests.

Impeachment seems like a taboo subject--but I think everyone's just afraid. Two things are different from the turbulent 1960s when the people stood up and made the President and the Congress listen: in the 60s the citizens went out into the streets and the media covered all points of view. Where are the protesters and WHERE IS THE MEDIA? Complacency will destroy Democracy and, ultimately, America.

In the words of George Orwell: "In a time of universal deceipt, telling the truth is a revolutionary act". Please continue being revolutionary. For the sake of keeping our Constitution as it was intended and not allowing it to be subverted, both Cheney and Bush should be impaeached.

In the words of George Orwell: "In a time of universal deceipt, telling the truth is a revolutionary act". Please continue being revolutionary. For the sake of keeping our Constitution as it was intnded and not allowing it to be subverted, both Cheney and Bush should be impaeached.

Thanks Jeff for trying. I wouldn't acknowledge the personal attacks. The point is promoting and tooling an intelligent, diverse discussion as indicated in Bill Moyers Blog rules. Anger divides. You needn't defend yourself that way. Peace to all.

To Jesse: YOU DID NOT read what I was saying-Please try it again.

1) I asked if you "worked" for Rove or the Republican not if you "followed".

2)I never stated anything about whether you were for or against Impeaching Clinton-I asked why you keep bringing him up?

3)I may suggest that you check out the Hegelian Dialectics in order to help you understand the point I was trying to make. If you cannot figure it out, let me know & I will try to help you. Our society is "side" oriented which I feel divides us and that events are intentionally created to keep manifesting this mentality. I feel ALL people, no matter what race, nationality, or religious beliefs need to recognize this and come together as one-if we all wish to continue as a species. The world has gotten too small to continue the way we have been-we need to stop thinking borders and nationalities and remove greed and personal ego from our thoughts if we wish to live in peace with each other.

You are absolutely correct about me-I I am not as smart as you nor as young or good looking and I am retired-Mainly because I am no longer able to work-I have both Rheumatoid and OsteoArthritis along with HIV+ status-I am middle aged with glasses but a full head of hair. the middle age will happen to you too. I probably won't be alive when you reach 49. I am doing what I can to make up for what I did not do earlier in my life politically and environmentally because when I die, I want my soul to be able to look back and say to itself- I tried, I at least tried. I still feel sorry for you-you can personally attack me all you want-If that makes you feel better.
I watched the Ken Burns Cival War series and what I was most impressed with was the the integrity, honor, and passion people had in our Country during that time period which is so lacking in todays society. You seem to have that - don't loose it-share it and spead it just stop being so self absorbed and stop attacking others-it devides us
"Peace In"
Jeff

Watching the God’s Warriors program on CNN was so depressing to see so many fanatics in our world presenting their fundamentalist ideas under Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

To comfort myself I came to Bill Moyers Journal as it rescues me from despair every week by meeting decent people.

Thanks Bill

complacency.

Good point, Jesse. Yet, complatency is not appropriate in the middle ground either. Impeachment has a purpose and whether a President is permitted to finish the term, I believe, depends heavily on his actions. Let the Constitution work.

You do have a neanderthal iq from what I could read. Is it possible that maybe, just maybe I can disagree with you without being a republican follower of Karl Rove? What you wrote is downright silly and further explains people who are on your side of these issues. I clearly stated that I was against impeachment with Clinton, but can't take my word for it because it describes me as somewhat in the middle. It doesn't make sense to you that someone would be ok with Clinton finishing his term as well as Bush. Great tolerance there. Loved the conspiracy theory you pushed there too. I know people on the left can't resist a good conspiracy. I'm sure some read what you wrote and said "yeah maaan, that makes sense". Define "large percentage". There was a large percentage who wanted Clinton impeached, but it wasn't most. I think "most" is key here. I am quite sure you are not in the majority on this issue. What's my point with Clinton? Gotta be kidding. I'm sure you didn't raise up a fuss when Clinton did terrible thing after terrible thing is what my point was. There was hardly a peep in the media about Berger stuffing his undies with documents containing Clinton's strategy against Al Qaeda and Bin Laden just before the 9/11 Commission was about to meet. I know it's probably not a big deal to you that he did that. Hardly anyone questioned why Berger did it. I guess the reason was obvious. He didn't want to show that Clinton HAD no strategy on Bin Laden. Most of the country is not conservative and it is not liberal. Most of us are in the middle. Far be it from me to speak for the middle, but I will anyway. We do not wish to see our leaders tore down. We didn't like the foaming at the mouth republicans when Clinton was President (still sound like a Rove guy?) and how they kept trying to tear him down. We don't like the democrats coming up with "Bush is a Nazi" slogans while laying onto us peyote-laced conspiracy theories, such as yourself. We elected them. They serve four year terms. End of story. -Me, a handsome (if I must say) 36 year old man with a head full of hair. Not a bald, middle-aged man with glasses who's reaping the rewards of recent retirement. You should put the bong down

Dear fellow citizens and people of the world.

My father John Edward Kwiatkowski was a career foreign service officer with the Department of State of the United States of America for 35 years retiring in 1995 as an FSO-1.

As a fortunate son I grew up around the world where many times I was the odd one out a little blonde haired blue-eyed kid in south africa or the bahamas..

I was at College Du Leman in Versoix, Geneva Switzerland from 1977-1979 on the same bowling team as the sons and daughters of the shah of iran and the ayatollah khomeini of iraq not to mention the sons and daughters of other semi-royal families from a variety of countries.

Remember rod stewarts Do ya think I'm sexy album?

I was 11 years old when that came out and those royal family children and I were on the same school bowling team with miss fisher the math teacher every friday on the bus to the lanes. We drank coffee and wine, and smoked cigarettes and weed together like brothers and sisters often do. And all the while our parents were planning their little war games.

Guess what!

We will all see that bowling team in action again, sharing and playing together in love and appreciation of one and all.

Count me as one in support of impeachment proceedings against the current occupant and his side kick, Dick. What they have done to this country and our constitution, if not criminal certainly warrants impeachment. Bruce Fein and John Nichols, from differing philosophy's, have clearly stated that impeachment proceedings are valid, warranted and needed.

I would really like to see Bill, interview Chalmers Johnson and discuss the imperialism and militarism being foisted on us by the military-industrial complex with the elected officials either turning a blind eye or in league with empire building that has been going on for generations. With the elections coming on and campaigning heating up some sunshine cast on the imperial role of the US and our foreign policy would be very timely for the citizens of this nation to know about.

Dear Mr. Moyers: I just wrote to you about encouraging Oprah to feature a show about impeachment similar to the one that aired on PBS. All Americans and elected officials need to understand why impeachment is so important now. The Oprah Show reaches millions of average American viewers. You, Bruce Fein and John Nichols create compelling arguments, information and television. Contact her producers @ www.oprah.com and lets shine the light of truth upon the secrecy surrounding our government. Thank you for what you are doing!

To Jesse-You keep bringing up Clinton did this, Clinton did that, Janet Reno blah-blah-blah. What's the point? It's now in the past and there is not much anyone can do about it. Should have, could have, and would have, BUT we didn't. It's quite obvious Congress failed to uphold the Constitution then and they are failing to do it now the only difference is that they DID at least put the Impeachment process into motion. Whether you like it or not, large percentage of America is for impeachment. If Congress fails to start Impeachment proceedings against George W. Bush and Richard Bruce Cheney, then we will all be saying should have, could have, and would have-two years from now-and that will be a shame. We need to make sure these politicians are kept in line or at least give them a feeling that they MAY have a price to pay IF they break the law and WE The People are NOT doing a very good job at that-that is even more shameful.
This last statement is not meant to insult-your comments and responses raise a question in my mind if you are not who you say you are in here-as if maybe you work for the republican party or someone like Karl Rove-silly of me, huh?
Signed,
Average shmoe with a low, low, neanderthal IQ

Thank you for pointing out that the impeachment processes are NOT punitive to- but, in fact, favor - all of our long-held beliefs that are held within the Constitution.
We have allowed ourselves to perceive too much of our lives as battlegrounds.

The "liberal media bias", is a fallacy. If the United States had a liberal leaning media, the United States would have never attacked Iraq.

In the link provided below
you see 7 people 4 in color
& 3 in black & white...The 3 in b&w were captured 2 on
5/29/2004 & 1 on or around 7/25/2004...

(top middle)=AAFIA SIDDIQUI
(bot.left)= FAZUL ABDULLAH
MOHAMMED - these 2 were nabbed on 5/29/2004 from my
911 call & people in this administration are covering
it up - SO THAT THE REWARDS
WHICH ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY BOUND TO BE PAID - ARE NOT PAID...

Worse yet (F.A.M.)was held in U.S. custody for like 30
months & recently dumped in
Somalia - 1/2007 & he was targeted 4 assassination & the airstrikes missed him
then as well as in 6/2007..

Released from U.S. custody while under a U.S. Federal
Indictment from the Southern District of N.Y. 4
his alledged participation
in the 1998 African Embassy
all because the U.S. Govt. did not want to pay the reward...

(bot.right)= AHMED KHALFAN GHAILANI was found in AMERICA & flown 2 Pakistan
4 Pakistan 2 say they found
him there 2 avoid paying his reward as well...

The ARRAY of criminality & the numbers of crimes that were committed here alone -DEMAND A THOROUGH/RIGOROUS
INVESTIGATION & WARRANTS A IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDING AS WELL AS THE SWIFT REMOVAL &
THE IMMEDIATE FIRING OF ALL
THOSE HI-LEVEL CABINET GOVT
OFFICALS WHO ALL CONSPIRED & COLLUDED IN THE COVER-UP OF THESE VERY SERIOUS FELONIES...

My life was totally ruined
& destroyed 4 doing what FBI dir. Mueller asked all Americans 2 do which was 2 help them find these people
fast -- I do just that & my
life is ruined 4 telling members of Congress of the corruption that was going 2 happen over all of this -
my friend in the U.S.C.G.
found out that the federal govt. planned on covering these matters up -- so that
they (FED. GOVT.) did not have 2 pay the REWARDS...

CHECK THIS LINK
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/may04/bolo052604.htm


THE TRUTH THE PRESS IS NOT ALLOWED 2 SPEAK ABOUT & THE
TRUTH THAT THE GOVT. WILL NOT TELL CAN BE READ AT THE FOLLOWING LINKS...

http://national-security-4u.blogspot.com/ - 911 call
+

http://low_down69.livejournal.com/ - secret P.D.B. the
start of the colluded criminal conspiracy cover-up

http://360.yahoo.com/caspereraser1 - letter I sent to O.P.R. as well as DOJ's CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION - whereas bush deliberately denied security clearances 2 DOJ officials 2 investigate what ever it was they were going to investigate - "NSA" illegally monoriting my communications to stop me from ACQUIRING A CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY from taking
my case BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY & all my calls WERE HEARD/TAPED I AM SURE 2 BE PLAYED 4 BUSH & CO. - ALL CALLS 2 ATTORNEYS + THE
CALLS MADE 2 O.P.R. AS WELL
AS THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION OF THE DEPT. OF JUSTICE...

A LINK 4 MY REPLIES 2 THE HUFFINGTON POST BLOGS...

READ MORE FACTS TOLD 2 THE PUBLIC / TOLD 2 THE ELECTED
POLITICIANS & NO ONE IS THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATING IT...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/users/profile/NATIONALSECURITY4US

NO ONE IS TELLING THE TRUTH
& THESE CRIMES = TREASON...

Dear PBS-

Please, please, please stop airing Bill Moyer's program, "Buying The War." The more I see it, the more disgusted I get at this administration, and this rampant cowardice masquerading as patriotism among the populace. People, wake up! You were screwed over royally! There is no link between Saddam, WMD's or 9/11. Everyone in the administration knew it, they decided to tow the party line, and let Bush get away with this atrocity, and make no mistake, signing off on this war continues to wreck havoc on the
American economy, and is still needlessly, carelessly, and callously killing thousands of soldiers and Iraquis, and for what? Please, PBS, dont air this program anymore. Nobody, nobody is willing to step up to the plate and demand our elected officials DO THEIR JOB, and initiate impeachment proceedings. Perjury over fellatio is impeachable, but a senseless war isn't? Being deliberately lied to isn't? Premeditated murder isn't? Feinstein, Pelosi and the rest of their ilk don't care about preserving freedom or democracy, they just want to keep picking up that paycheck. PBS can air this program till the cows come home, it wont do a bit of good until a collective "conscience" begins to take hold in this country. Everyone laughs about the so-called naivete of the 60's, but all I know is, this could never have happened forty years ago without reprisal from the electorate. So please, please, please PBS, stop airing "Buying the War."

Not a problem MLM. Jay P, where is your evidence? You didn't mention the UN keeping Saddam in power for a matter of oil. They did that didn't they? The UN kept a dictator in power who they knew killed hundreds of thousands of his own people for oil.

First: Jessie Norman, your point is well taken and you have my sincere apology for singling you out in this discussion. I respectfully agree to disagree.

Second: Thank you Bill Moyers for opening up this discussion. I felt I was alone in my conclusions -- that no one else was seeing what I was seeing.

Third: I want to thank EVERYONE who has participated in this on-line debate. You have all helped me to refine and articulate my position. Especially the person who posted the quote used at the end of my letter below.

Forth: I believe in the collective power of the people. Below is a letter that I am putting in the mail today to the Representatives from the great state of Texas, and speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi.

Now I must get back to running my business.

August 20, 2007

Dear ,

I write to you to appeal and urge you to live up to your oath of office to defend the Constitution of The United States of America. I call on you to rise to the level of true Statesmanship for the continued future of our Republic.

Never in my 52 years have I been as concerned for my basic freedoms as I am today.
The issues that most concern me are:

Executive Powers – the unprecedented increase in executive power is destroying the delicate balance of power so masterfully worked out by our founding Fathers.

Surveillance of Americans – Is undermining of the Fourth Amendment and sets a terrifying precedent.

Separation of Church and State – The Neo-Christian Right, and this Administration’s adherence to it, is turning this country into a Theocracy – the very situation our founding Fathers fought so hard to avoid.

Preemptive Foreign Policy – Invading Iraq was based on lies and deception and motivated by imperialistic ideas of imposing democracy on a country that did nothing to provoke our attack. This strategy did not work during the “Crusades” and is doomed to failure today!

Freedom of Speech – the current Administration’s tactics of demonizing opposing voices is reminiscent of Adolph Hitler.

Freedom of the Press – the manipulation of the press to propagandize this War in Iraq is shameless. Allowing the consolidation of the press into huge media conglomerates is misguided and is destroying this vital component of our American democracy.

Privatization – the privatization of basic services and utilities, such as electricity, has effectively set up a state of taxation with out representation. For example, my Electricity has increased 80% since privatization. There is no competition – only billing options. I ask you what am I to do…go with out?

Individual Privacy – the covert gathering of information by US corporations and the use of technology to put consumers and the public under constant surveillance is sheer insanity. There must be accountability, guidelines and regulations put in place NOW!

Distribution of Wealth – never since the “gilded Age,” preceding the Great Depression,” has there been such a disproportionate gap between the rich and poor. Is a similar economic disaster on the horizon too?

Do not label my words as being from a left wing liberal. I have never voted for a Democrat in a Presidential election in the 8 elections of my voter eligibility. I am a devout Christian and a fourth generation United Methodist. Seven years ago I WAS a card carrying Republican. This is not about Party Politics. This is about our Constitution and the future of America.

The only solution I see is IMPEACHMENT of the current President and Vice President of the United States. Which ACTION I urge you take in order to preserve American democracy for future generations.

Please act. My country is starting to feel like the Capitalist Equivalent of the former Soviet Union.

Sincerely

MLM

"There is none more enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749 –1832)

The Real Reason We're In Iraq: An influential group of conservatives convinced President George W. Bush that it was in America's best interests to conquer Iraq as a first step toward dominating the oil-producing nations in the Middle East. There was no "exit plan" because we never intended to exit. The plan was, and is, to build military bases in Iraq and stay there forever. Our leaders also see Iraq as a place to make money. So Bush & Co. have set up their friends to cash in on the rebuilding of Iraq.

I also notice that while getting a few posts pointed my way (against me as shocking as that is), none have actually tried to argue against what I actually stated. The Sandy Berger thing is indefensible. As our country was trying to find out where we went wrong with 9/11, Clinton's boy Berger stuffed the highest of classified documents into his socks and trousers which pertained to Clinton's strategy (or lack thereof) against Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Janet Reno did block investigation after investigation. Isn' that corruption? Clinton did take in chinese agents and took money from China so they could be on the "Most Favored Nation's List". Those agents did steal our secrets. Janet Reno stopped that investigation, too. Al Gore did go into a buddhist temple and take money from more chinese agents in California. Remember this line? "It wasn't a fundraiser, but I was there to raise funds." Does most of the country want Bush impeached? No, we do not. He has low approval ratings, but congress' approval rating (controlled by democrats now) is quite a bit lower. You all are the ones blinded by hate, not me. The republicans stupidly impeached Clinton for lying under oath. Even though that is a REAL impeachable offense, the country didn't want it. They lost the next midterm election so they paid their price for their blinding hatred. As you can read, I'm no republican either, therefore not the Antichrist to all of you. I didn't like Clinton (don't like Bush either), but we elected them both. Clinton should have finished his term, and so should Bush. I want what's best for the country, and taking down a sitting President people clearly on the other side don't agree with is absolutely wrong. There were two big elections in Europe with Germany and France elected more "America-friendly" candidates and parties. So much for that "America is hated all over the world" rant. Or perhaps MLM is right and that these things never happened, and that I'm just brainwashed. Bush and Cheney took a person that doesn't like them and made him (me) part of their mind-numbed audience. Funny thing is MLM sounds like the rest of you, but I don't. Who's brainwashed? I don't go to a meat market and ask if there's any filet mignon and get a "no" and blame Bush, Cheney, or them zionists in Israel. And I don't get what you all are talking about with the silencing of people. What is this? I don't see any stormtroopers on my street. Stormtroopers in your eyes would be the FBI I'm sure. Go ahead and call me brainwashed and ill-educated if you want, but you can't argue what my points were. Plus, I'd be more than happy to take an iq test against any of you. Blind hatred gets you nowhere but a step closer to the left-wing version of the KKK who huddle in their own masses and talk about Foxnews, Bush, republicans, and jews, except the KKK talks solely about blacks, gays, and .... jews. I notice the jews are a common theme among all of you. Looks like that old hatred hasn't gone away afterall.

You just called me brainwashed MLM. So much for that "demonizing others with other viewpoints" thing eh? My iq is 174, what is yours?

I just saw a taped video of the July 23rd program on impeachment of Bush and Cheney. Thanks for proclaiming what I've been saying ever since I heard Charlie Savage talking about Bush's presidential signing statements. To save our democracy Congress must hold Bush and Cheney accountable by impeaching them. Then the media would have to shine the light on all their lies, evasions, high crimes and misdemeanors, and the American public may finally wake up.

However, I was very disappointed when Mr. Fein said that there are no statesmen in Congress to call for impeacement. Ohio Representative Dennis Kucinich is and always has been a statesmen, and he has introduced articles of impeachment and gotten considerable support. I am baffled that Mr. Fein and the media in general seem to ignore or dismiss Kucinich, even though he is also running for President. I hope that Mr. Moyers will correct this failure to give credit where it is certainly due.

Anybody who is still defending Bush and Cheney deserves an America, and a military, in the state that it is in right now. As for those of us who can still think for ourselves, without having Rush or O'Reilly filter information and feed it like baby food to us, we won't stand for it.

While some of us knew of Bush/Cheney's incompetence and poor character from the beginning, and millions of others who were suckered into voting for them--twice--(first out of anger and the second time out of fear) have finally come out of Karl Rove's sickly green fog, there are still, sad to say, many who would follow these criminals to the ends of the earth. I just hope they get there and all jump off the edge together.

I believe in the America we all loved and cherished not only in the pre 9-11 era, but the pre Bush-Cheney era.

It's never going to be the same again, and there's nothing more just than to put them through the impeachment process. Who cares about the right wingers who'll be outraged? They are in the minority now, and this act will expose them for what they are---weak-minded fearists who crouch in their living rooms watching Sean Hannity in the dark, waiting for the boogeyman terrorist to show up at their doors.

Whatever Bill says is truth. His dedication to expose that truth is saintly. PBS would not be PBS without Bill Moyers.
I am personality grateful to Bill for introducing me to Joseph Campbell {The Power of Myth}, back in the early 1990s. It changed me, and my life, and I have been on that path ever since. My website Myths-Dreams-Symbols reflects that journey.

“Find out to what people will submit and you will find the exact measure of injustice that will be imposed upon them” - F. Douglas.

As “the U.S. government is in shambles -- paralyzed, polarized, and mired in war, debt and corruption”, the excuse rational use by the leaders, “if we had known there were no weapons of mass destruction.”, “I don’t think we would have gone....”. These excuses does not justify to send our man and women to a war, to have over “3668 killed, over 27000 wounded “ at a cost of over $500 billions dollars.
“Ignorance of the constitution - duty, obligation, responsibility to not represent the people is no excuse”. Abrogating the absolute power – duty, obligation, responsibility.” based on a policy that is “fundamentally flawed”, does not justify the lost of life!
“The biggest ECONOMIC PERIL.. ignored” by the Congress and Senate is their fiscal irresponsibility"! “ The ECONOMIC PERIL” - “a tsunami of spending that could swamp our ship of state” was their duties, obligation and responsibility. The ongoing sub-prime mortgage crisis, a result of “irresponsible lending policies designed to generate commissions for....”!
Rampant corruption, lies, irresponsibility, breached of duties, obligation and plunge
our country into a war, debt and Constitutional crises is due to “transfer of absolute power.... and irresponsibility".
A measure to injustice, “religion turned into a weapon of political combat -- a battering ram,
aimed at....people”.
Justification to amend some articles of “THE CONSTITUTION” are,
The Congress and Senate no longer represent ALL THE PEOPLE.
The Laws by the Congress are for benefits of special interest groups [at 2:27 am.]
The Congress and Senate Abrogated the “absolute power ...”.
Declare war based on a policy that is “Fundamentally flawed”
The “Economic Peril” - ignored.
The “will of the people” to directly “express their will on issues, laws, wars” is denied.
“ Power construed liberally” results in corruption and no accountability.
“The truth as always it hurts”!

To Jessie Norman:

Your comments here are a clear reflection of the level of brainwashing that has occurred in this country. No rebuttal is really necessary your words speak to this reality.

The real key to America Democracy lies in the debate. Can we have a democracy if the opposing viewpoint is demonized? Is this not how all repressive regimes, dictatorships and even the terrorist operate and control the minds of the masses?

Way back on the 14th someone was upset that people have compared Bush with Hitler. My reaction is this: I remember Hitler. I noticied the similarity within a few days after 9-1-1. Wishing doesn't make it different. We all are judged according to how we behave, not according to our motives or our wishes.

The more I read and learn about the Bush regime, with its obsession for getting Saddam Hussein and the propaganda campaign on the run up to the war. The only thought I am left with about impeachment is why haven't proceedings begun?

It is amazing that after the orchestrated propaganda campaign with it's imagery of mushroom clouds, and tons of biological and chemical weapons ready for immediate. That the American public accepts a "whatever" from the Bush regime as rationale for attacking a country that never did anything to us is pathetic. Even more onerous is the Orwellian tactic of redefining our purpose as the calling to bring Democracy to those people anyway.

The more I read and learn about the Bush regime, with its obsession for "getting" Saddam Hussein and its fear mongering campaign on the run up to the war; the only thought I am left with regarding impeachment is, why haven't proceedings begun?

It is amazing that after the White House orchestrated propaganda campaign with it's imagery of mushroom clouds, and tons of biological and chemical weapons ready for immediate use that the American public accepts a "whatever" from the Bush regime as rationale for attacking a country that never did anything to us and that had no tie to 9/11.

Even more onerous is was the Orwellian tactic of redefining our purpose for attacking Iraq as a calling to bring Democracy to the people of that region.

The institutional corruption, war profiteering, and systematic looting of our treasury to turn the greatest republic on earth, the nation that was the preeminent example of Democracy for the world, into a fascist dystopia is indeed criminal.

I really don't care if Pelosi and other corporate sponsored Democrats lack the spine to save this nation. We are on the brink of the end of our nation. Stop these fascists before it's too late!

I implore you to write your representatives, support people like Kucinich and Wexler. Demand Impeachment Now! Explain the truth to your friends and demand that they step up and do their part to make their voices heard.

We are in a fight for the very soul of our republic. Don't leave this task to someone else. If the real "grass roots" common sense people of this nation sits idly by watching CNN and the latest installment of Linsay Lohan's sorry life, then I assure you that within 5 years you and future generations to come live in theocratic fascist state.

Bill Moyers has created many great pieces throughout his career. This piece on Impeachment is another. However, he dropped the ball on one very pertinent piece of information. Articles of Impeachment have already been brought against Dick Cheney in the US House of Representatives in HR 333 by Congressman and Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich. This Bill already has 20 cosponsors and is the opening volley in a battle that will hopefully set our country back on a constitutional course. Every true American should urge their members of Congress to sign on and support this bill while we still have a country to save.
G

If President Bush gives up the extra powers he gave himself he should be allowed to continue on as President. If he continues to "Stay the coures" he should be impeached and held accountable for his actions, which should include jail time in one of the dungeons he has been keeping suspected Al Quida members. He should also have to endure the same conditions and "questioning methods" employed there.

I wasn't talking about people. I was talking about the media on the far left. By the way, I'm not asking to impeach someone I don't agree with. Keep your pity.

From a posting on July 14:

Quote
"Ken, July 14, 2007:
I just caught the end of your show waiting for the British comedies to come on. What a bunch of crap! The democrats don't have the guts to stop the war or impeach Bush or Cheney. What congress should do is remove public funding for this show and send it to the troops in the war."
Unquote

Huh? Listening to uncensored democratic debate between constitutional scholars may have come as a shock to this commenter, who no doubt is used to feeding on a particularly scrofulous diet of propoganda purported to be "journalism" on Fox "News" Network. The same applies to others who have chosen to post similar, inane remarks. I despise people who obviously disagree with points made on the show but cannot properly articulate reasons why they object beyond what appears to be purely ideological grounds. This feeling goes beyond "despising" -- it goes to the roots of how much I am willing to sacrifice to have the privilege to live in a free, democratic society. Lest we ever forget that the gift of freedom comes with a high price of constant vigilance towards those who would so quickly and eagerly take it away from us. Yes, that means American citizens who live among us, not just Al Quaeda. Congress is an extension of the people, Mr. Ken, and if the people don't debate, Mr. Ken, how can Congress be properly informed through the democratic process to conclude that impeaching Bush and Cheney is in fact in the best interests of the country? Mr. Ken is one of these henchmen, these brownshirts in pinstripes, making up a minority population but nevertheless always out there in the millions among us. This minority hates the democratic process with a passion, and wishes to subjugate us to their own fascist, extremist ends. Of course, this is nothing new and as history tells us, fascism's ugly head inevitably pops up if we aren't quick enough to chop it off. This minority would like nothing more than for us to turn off Bill Moyers Journal and turn on ESPN or Fox "News" Network and forget about our civic obligations to fight for our rights, and debate real world problems and the needs of a functioning, democratic society. The militarist, extremist, fascist Christian Right and the military-industrial complex make up a large bulk of this minority in our country. Mr. Ken, if you don't like your freedoms, why don't you pack your bags and move to any of several US-backed fascist regimes? (Sorry, I couldn't resist the irony.)

Consider please the following short sequence of events:

8/12/07, early morning: The Cincinnati Enquirer runs a story revealing that “[d]espite a federal judge’s order to preserve all ballots from the 2004 presidential election--in which Ohio provided President Bush’s margin of victory--boards of elections in 56 of Ohio’s 88 counties lost, shredded or dumped nearly 1.6 million ballots and election records.”

8/13/07: Karl Rove resigns.

8/17/07: Dennis Hastert, former Speaker of the House, officially announces his intention not to seek reelection in 2008.

8/17/07: White House Press Secretary Tony Snow announces that he will leave his post sometime before the end of the Bush presidency.

After this, therefore because of this? Maybe not, but I wish someone would look more closely into this missing ballots story. The major media outlets seem to be ignoring it.

To Jesse Norman:
Why are you so angry? Why are you name calling the people you don't agree with as "Loons"? I feel sorry for you.

Does anyone know about these Fema Detention Camps-The 600 to 800 FEMA Detention Camps?
http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1062
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4
Doing research I came across information on Herbert Walker Bush and the ties he had financially with the Nazi Party thru Union Bank-there was legal action taken by our Government in the 1940's against Union Bank because of these ties. Then I came across the Skull & Bones Societythat all the Bushes seem to be lifetime members of. So, I did some research on that. It seems the origin of the Skull & Bones Society came about in the 1820's or 1830's and it's three founding members studied the Hegelian Dialectic Philosiphy-The same philosiphy that Karl Marx embraced and the one the Nazi Party seemed to have used.
This brings me to some questions-the first is where does GW's first loyalty REALLY lay?According to Wikipidia, 10 other members of the Skull & Bones have had positions in his administration, second-there seems to be simularities in the WTC demolition-er I mean attacks and the Reichstag fire in Berlin-why?
I also did some research on PNAC-and my goodness! there are so many familiar names on the list of members.
I suggest to all who question and doubt this I have presented that use the computer in front of you and google it- whether you hate people like me or not-just google some of this instead of calling me names-what are you afraid of? that maybe there is more truth to it than you want to know? what-are ya chicken? I dare ya -I double dare ya! Google skull & bones, google PNAC and google FEMA prison camps.
If you have chosen a side, like a conservative or a liberal, You have become part of applied Hegalian Dialectics-That is exactly what they want of us and you are playing out the thesis verses anti-thesis which the eventual synthesis=an improved society. Then you do it over & over until you have a perfect-NEW World Order! Sound familiar?
Impeach them before it's too late.

Funny how you again didn't post what I wrote. Wonder why that was. Who's talking about impeachment but you left-wing loons? Even some of the most liberal democrats won't even hear of it. That's because MOST of this country doesn't want it, and it would be political suicide if they do. Clinton actually broke the law and the republicans paid a hefty price for impeaching him, and rightfully so. What is so comedic to me is that you think you have some real credibility here. Left-wing bias? What left-wing bias? Oh, this one. Yes, bias indeed. What is the impeachable offense? Seriously because I want to know. It's funny how all of you bring up how Bush is tearing the constitution into shreds, but I heard not a peep from the liberal media about how Janet Reno stopped investigation after investigation into Clinton. Where were your cries when former NSA Sandy Berger STOLE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS BY STUFFING THEM IN HIS PANTS AND SOCKS that pertained to Clinton's position in dealing with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda just before the 9/11 Commission was about to meet? I know you will go ahead and act like it's not a big deal like Dan Rather did. Rather even made the story more about the TIMING of the release of the story than Berger stuffing the highest of classified documents into his clothes. What liberal media? Oh, that one. Berger even admitted to throwing most of the documents away and couldn't produce the others. So why did he do this? Maybe, just maybe it would implicate Clinton, showing he did absolutely nothing about Al Qaeda and Bin Laden while President. Please do your best efforts to FAIRLY argue against that. Isn't stealing the highest of classified documents a crime? Bush didn't want Berger to serve anytime. Did he get a 'thank you'? Nope. Instead he gets bombarded over the Skooter Libby deal. The press is so blinded by their hatred of Bush it keeps them from thinking straight. It blinded Rather to where he lost his job. Yes, he was rightfully terminated. Presents false documents 50 days before the election because as he says "I felt the story itself was true". Great journalism. Wonder why PBS didn't confront Rather about that. Simple, they're on the same side. What liberal bias? Oh, that one. I know PBS likes to preach to the choir. Woops, I made a mistake. The words "preach" and "choir" are probably making you all convulse like Linda Blair. Instead of looking forward each morning and meeting with friends at a coffee shop or book store and talk about Bush, Foxnews, christians, Haliburton, Cheney, and jews, why don't you talk about family? Talk about fun times. You're even more blind than the republican dopes who kept talking about Whitewater and Lewinsky. I, unlike you am fairminded. I'm not a republican or democrat. I'm pretty much like the rest of America, right down the middle. I've posted a few things on PBS websites and never cursed or anything but seem that not even half of my posts make it through. Which one of the three monkeys is the blog administrator. I bet it's the one with his ears covered.

I signed the petition to Impeach Cheney-Senator Feinstein sent me this:
Dear Mr. Findeis

Thank you for your letter concerning impeachment proceedings against Vice President Richard Cheney. I appreciate the time you took to write and welcome the opportunity to respond.

In our most recent elections, the American people expressed clear disapproval with the path this country was on. They are tired of partisan politics and of an Administration that pays little heed to the wishes of the American people. They want-and deserve-a Congress that holds the Administration accountable and fulfills its Constitutional responsibility to check and balance the Executive branch. I share this sentiment and am determined to work hard and across party lines in the United States Senate to promote issues that are of real concern to most Americans, including the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, homeland security, global warming, and lobbying and election reform.

At this time, however, I believe that impeachment proceedings against President Bush or Vice President Cheney will only divide the country even further, frustrating our hopes for a meaningful change in direction, while having little chance of success.

I have been deeply disappointed by many of this Administration's actions and have been outspoken in those instances. Nevertheless, given the challenges our country faces I believe that we need to focus on constructive and cooperative steps that would lead us in the right direction.

Again, thank you for your letter. If you have any further questions or comments, please contact my office in Washington, D.C. at (202) 224-3841. Best regards.

Sincerely yours,

Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

Why do I feel like responding to her with "But, Mommy-I want him impeached now! I want, I want, I want! Now,now,now! Yup, they do talk to us like we are children, don't they?!?

Because of the format of the blog, I seem to be saying what the chap below me said. I think the current administration should be thrown in prison for a long time.

I wish to reply to Jesse Norman's post.

I can assure you my views are NOT a liberal vs. conservative argument nor are they personal vendettas against Mr. Bush and Chaney. Actually, I have never voted democratic and have always considered myself to be a conservative -- until that term was applied to the neo-elitist at the far end of the spectrum.

For me this is about the Constitution and anger at the flagrant disregard for its fundamental core freedoms such as the 4th amendment, the separation of powers and the separation of church and state. These unprecedented measures have upset the delicate balance of power that our freedoms are built upon.

I am asking for impeachment because my vote of confidence has been betrayed.
I have been lied to, manipulated and played the fool. So it is not hatred but justifiable anger with an administration that has seemingly become as fanatically misguided as the enemy.

By the way I did not vote or support Clinton either and agree that the problem with terrorism, inherited by this administration, was due in part by unsuccessful efforts by previous administrations. It is how the current Administration has used the situation to push their own fanatical hidden agendas that they need to be impeached for.

Believe me my views have come a full 180 degree circle in the past seven years.

This is about the Constitution and not wanting to wake up to find I am living the capitalist flip-side of the former Soviet Union. This is the path I see we heading down and I am speaking up now and will vote accordingly in the next election.

The last poster is exhibit A as to what I said. "Enlightened"... give me a break. You people really need to get a life. Hopefully the federal government will stop funding this public television fiasco which is so left wing it only flies in clockwise circles. I'd say this channel and its shows preach to the choir, but the mere wording of "preach" and "choir" will have you all convulsing like Linda Blair. Go to France. They understand you and are enlightened as well. But better hurry quickly because their last election they look like maybe even they're starting to wake up. Perhaps you're liberal Utopia is receding as fast as your hold of common sense and fairness. What liberal bias in the media? Puleez!

I'm sorry, this makes good conversation but, I believe it's going to take more than talk to see the light of day with this.

I turn 61 this year and like many members of my cohort I have subconsciously made the cynical calculation that this republic need only endure for a few more years to satisfy my personal needs. We have as a people, suckled ourselves on the fruits of conquest and carefully cultivated our ignorance so as not to know how the great American sausage is actually made.

Unfortunate the cosmic wheel of justice inevitably turns and the chickens are finally coming home to roost. Corrupt governments such as the one we have now, rise to meet a need. Ultimately aggression and oppression are needed to keep the material aspects of the party going just a little bit longer. So it is that parents are more than willing to stack the bodies of their own children on the ramparts of our empire like so many sandbags to secure just a little more of that comfortable, blissed-out, Super Bowl cocoon known as "our way of life".

It's always great (and just a little too easy) to have villains like Bush and Cheney straight from central casting to personify the evil we have become. We can point our fingers in their direction and satisfy ourselves that they bare ALL the responsibility for our collective crimes. The fact is however, that IF their adventures had succeeded in delivering the promised goods at a reasonable price, all else would have been forgiven and Bush's approval rating would be in the 90% range. For the great bulk of the American people AND the people who represent them, there is no moral equation. The ONLY crime their president CAN commit is failure.

I’ve spent these 61 years in the arts out here on the west coast, so I am blessed with many politically “enlightened” friends who never the less, refused to lift a finger or raise a question when it counted BEFORE hundreds of thousands of innocent people were blown to bits at the other end of our “smart bombs” decent. Then as now, they washed their hands and shrugged their shoulders, preferring instead to be acceptable and well liked.

Courage delayed is effectively the same as cowardice and cowardice is the only word that describes the mass industrial murder of nearly a million people because of our unfounded fears. Cowardice is the only word that describes the surrender of our Constitution for the mere illusion of safety. This is neither the land of the free OR the home of the brave, we are just easily frightened people apparently unable to feel shame. So look in the mirror to observe the guilty party. As bad as it is, we still have a better government than we actually deserve and there is still time to redeem ourselves and some small portion of our self respect.

Forgot to mention this too... Why didn't I hear none of you liberals cry and scream when former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger was caught stuffing the highest of classified documents into his pants and socks that pertained to Clinton's policies with Bin Laden just before the 9/11 Commission was about to meet? Why did he steal those documents? Hmm? He even admitted to throwing most of them away. Where was your whining then? When our country was trying to find out our mistakes in not dealing with Bin Laden sooner, the former NSA stuffs his clothes with classified documents so his boss wouldn't be found out for his carelessness in dealing with Al Qaeda. Go ahead and mull all this over while you play pictionary.

Who's talking about impeachment but for you left-wing loons? Seriously the problem with you people is that you hate Bush so bad that you can't think straight. You gather together with your friends at the book stores and coffee shops and talk about these things: Bush, Foxnews, Haliburton, Cheney, Karl Rove, and jews. Don't tell me you don't because I've seen you do it. You wake yourselves up out of sleep by yelling "BUSH!", drenched with sweat. I bet none of you are asking why Clinton turned down the offer from Sudan (three times by the way) where they were going to send Bin Laden to Saudi Arabia where we could pick him up, since Bin Laden was drawing unwanted attention to Sudan. I know Clinton denied this, but there's an audio tape confirming yet another Clintonian-sized lie. How about how Sudan told us what flight Bin Laden was on and Clinton did nothing about it. Or how we were attacked left and right with Clinton doing absolutely nothing about it. I know none of you are asking why did the UN keep Saddam in power so they can make money and get cheap oil from him. Kofi Annan's own man Benon Sevan was indicted as well as his son Kojo. I barely heard a peep from you liberals. I know none of you are asking why the UN is paying one billion dollars for renovating the UN building instead of building an entirely new one at a third of the cost. I know none of you are asking why Janet Reno stopped investigation after investigation into Clinton. I know none of you are asking why did Al Gore go to a buddhist temple in California and take money from officials from the chinese government. Or why did Clinton let in a chinese spy named John Huang and gave him top security clearance without any background checks (as ordered by the late Ron Brown). In an investigation by the CIA they found a four year plot by chinese agents with Huang that took advantage of lax security by the White House. Huang allowed agents and associates access to the highest levels of the administration. Huang went to the White House over 70 times and met in the Oval Office 10 times. The crux of those meetings were how the chinese government would donate millions to the DNC in exchange for Most Favored Nation status, which meant billions to Beijing. The agents went too far though. The chinese spies infiltrated top security secrets that dealt with US trade. The Chinese had advanced knowledge of America's negotiating positions in trade and economic talks as well as access to trade deals subsidized by America. Ron Brown died in a plane crash and then subsequently took the blame post mortem by administration officials. This story wasn't by some far right-wing rag like I know you wish it would be. This story was reported by the London Sunday Times. Now look at all the trouble we have with China. Recall after recall with poisons going into our pets and perhaps our children. I don't recall hearing any liberal anger for those things. Why? Isn't that far worse than Bush declaring war on a dictator? I'm not a republican or a "Bush man". I just know bias and delusion when I see it. Impeach Bush? Impeach yourselves.

I really enjoyed your show on WWII. My father served in Belgium, Luxembourg and other places under General Patton. I was never able to get any information from him regarding his military experiences. He was a very quiet man anyway but was really closed mouth regarding his army experiences. All I know is that he served in the infantry. The book by Howard Randall seems to fit the bill for information I have been looking for regarding these conflicts. Is there any way to purchase a copy of this book? If so please let me know. I appreciate the time and effort you put into reporting this series because it has helped me so much to understand why my father was the way he was--he passed away in 1989. His name was John Sherman.

Thanks again,
Jan Mills

I live in a very conservative town in washington state, who refused to vote for a mayorial candidate because he didn't go to church. But trouble is brewing here agaisnt Bush/Cheney because these same people, who once viewed these two in nearly God like terms, want them out, preferably in reverse order.

Impeach both Cheney and Bush!!!

The discussion was one that I wish more of the mainstream media would have and one in which I wish the Congress would have. Thank you for making time for this very informative show.

The most vital and critical issue raised by far is that without impeachment the abuse of power by President Bush and Vice President Cheney will be handed down to future administrations. To believe, or trust for that matter, that this power will be relinquished by the next elected President, whether Democrat or Republican is insane.
An excellent book written in the form of a fictional grand jury indictment charging the Bush administration with conspiracy to defraud the United States was written by Elizabeth de la Vega, a former federal prosecutor for 20 years, before retiring in 2004. It is published by Seven Stories Press in association with tomdispatch.com.

The most vital and critical issue raised by far is that without impeachment the abuse of power by President Bush and Vice President Cheney will be handed down to future administrations. To believe, or trust for that matter, that this power will be relinquished by the next elected President, whether Democrat or Republican,is insane.

An excellent book written in the form of a fictional grand jury indictment charging the Bush administration with conspiracy to defraud the United States was written by Elizabeth de la Vega, a former federal prosecutor for 20 years, before retiring in 2004. It is published by Seven Stories Press in association with tomdispatch.com.

In many stories a counselor influences a weak simple king affecting the populace in negative ways. Sometimes the King is not so bad himself. Sometimes he is. Or as in this case, he has become completely convinced of his more intelligent advisor's points of view. I believe Cheney, Rice, Rove, and others in President Bush's administration will be remembered by history as the most unilateral administration we have had since Nixon's. May the next administration have the strength to fix many of their wrong doings. The most unfortunate result of having had this shrewd corporate minded administration is that they placed two Supreme Court Justices. That will not be negated by an impeachment. I've thought of 'sticking my head in the sand', but have not. Thank you for providing a much different type of broadcast than what is typical of todays ever merging media distribution channels.

Why doesn't Bill Moyers have Dennis Kucinich on the program?? He's the only candidate who supports impeachment proceedings against Cheney and Bush. Why not give this "dark horse" some more visibility??

Why is Carl Rove stepping down now? A time is coming soon when Carl will no longer have Presidential Privilege. By stepping down now he will still have a Presidential pardon available if things go bad. If he waits, he will lose both at the same time. Very risky.

I was wondering why Dennis Kucinich was never mentioned during this impeachment program? A little ironic, don't you think?

I doubt anyone will read this because there are so many posts.....I just feels good to post on a forum that for a change offers a little hope for what is left of my country....Up until now despite all of the letters I have written and forums I had blogged on I still had pretty much resigned myself to the fact that my country as I knew it.."Pre-Bush/Cheney" was gone forever....
I have served 20 yrs as a Marine in defense of this country....Only to have to sit by and watch a hand full of politicians take it apart like a tinker toy...throwing parts helter skelter like pigs in a trough....At the end of the day they care nothing for the America the rest of Love and would die for...they care only about where they will be sitting in their "global economy" and what wealth they will accumulate as America is sold to the highest bidder

I only hope other Americans have the courage to come forth in the numbers it will take to turn this tide and save what is left of this country before it is gone....

The Real Reason We're In Iraq: An influential group of conservatives convinced President George W. Bush that it was in America's best interests to conquer Iraq as a first step toward dominating the oil-producing nations in the Middle East. There was no "exit plan" because we never intended to exit. The plan was, and is, to build military bases in Iraq and stay there forever. Our leaders see Iraq as a place to make money. So Bush & Co. have set up their friends to cash in on the rebuilding of Iraq.

Since Nancy Pelosi would be the President if both the current president and vice president were impeached and convicted, it would not be appropriate for her to be the one to instigate and promote the impeachment. She should not; however, stand in the way of it. Lets each push our own congressional representative to take the action that the country so desperately needs right now. Time is extremely important, if we wait another year the damage will be irreversible.

Some of the proponents of war and this administration are what is truly frightening and pathetic. The number of Americans who still live in denial is the example par excellence of the denial, the ignorance and the misoneism that got us all in this sordid quagmire to begin with
-here and worldwide. Instead of looking at our own latent unconsciousness we attack others that don't follow the herd mentality, and eschew and avoid our own darkness. This becomes catastrophic on a collective level and we refuse to see that have become the very thing that we hated. The psychological aspects of our actions an behavior are overlooked and ignored while so much suffering and man's inhumanity to man continues unabated. We are lost and apparently don't even see the signs that history and, for instance, the Fall of Rome taught us.
Never have the words of German Shakespeare, Goethe been more true: "There are none more enslaved that those who falsely believe that they are free."

Nancy Pelosi has most likely taken her "impeachment off the table" position because (a) she has not yet consolidated her powers as Speaker; and (b - the bigger problem) if she calls for impeaching both the President and the VP, she would be subject to relentless attacks from the right wing because it would look like an attempt to grab the Presidency for herself since she's next in line. Pelosi needs the political cover of someone else from the House Judiciary Committee to take the lead by instigating the call for impeachment. House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers should stand up to this task and be the public champion of this cause. If Pelosi reluctantly agrees to a popular public DEMAND, then she can be the modest, reluctant supporter and largely avoid the inevitable smear attempts on her own motives.

I am always impressed by Bill Moyers's ability to ask profound and insightful questions of the right people on topics that most journalists are afraid of.

I scanned the responses below. Most viewers of this show are the kind of thinkers that can hold several different points of view in their minds at once. All of the contrary responses simply spew regurgitated propoganda and loaded language that has nothing factual to add to the discussion.

All: please continue to hold this discourse. Ask the tough questions. Act based on the facts you observe.

Powerful. Now...it is time that WE THE PEOPLE do as our founding fathers intended: To immediately urge our congresswomen/men and Senators to take steps to protect our country and our U.S. constitution from the on-going assault, abuses and the disconnected values of the Bush Administration. Their barrage on the very pillars of our democracy...our individual liberties, the separation of powers, to name just two, do indeed rise to the high crimes and misdemeanors which our founding fathers took pains to create an orderly process to cure. This cure is called the Impeachment process. Every citizen and patriot must know that if our fundamental rights and the laws of our land are ignored by the Executive branch, we as a people, and this country we love will suffer permanently. Successor President's will take office and know that WE THE PEOPLE have a track record of remaining on the side lines, permitting any future Executive Branch unchecked powers. Call, email and visit your Congressional reps and Senators. Include Nancy P. and demand that they take action and start the Impeachment process now. Urging the start of an Impeachment process is not radical, this is THE cure and what our founding fathers wrote into the constitution as the plan to follow in just such a situation. As the panelists pointed out, the founding fathers were very concerned that all of us learn about and invoke this constitutional process of law when it is called for. They were very deliberate, so much so that the founding fathers repeated this "I" word six times so that WE THE PEOPLE would really understand how critical that this process is to us as individuals and in maintaining a viable democracy. It IS our duty to rise up and call for it. Make that your next email or act.

A case might be able to made for impeachment of president bush for usurping powers and violating laws. If so, someone should be working on it.

However, if we look at the history of wars and conflicts in America … presidents have often during wartime taken extraordinary liberties. From Lincoln to Roosevelt … the kind of legal grounds for impeachment that the two commentators were talking about could probably also have easily been applied to them.

It is far from clear whether American jurisprudence needs to be applied to non citizens or even citizens deemed to be enemy combatants during a time of war… In the days of the civil war for example Lincoln took extraordinary liberties in regard to freedom of the press, censorship was a regular thing (something that this president has not done) and a confederate prisioner had no real constitutional protections or “due process” to speak of.

The commentators spoke of a zeal to go after president Clinton because he was hated by republicans… But if liberals are honest with themselves, they also have a zeal against the much hated president bush. There has probably never been a conservative president who inspired so much hatred among political opponents as the current president.

I am concerned about government becoming unaccountable and becoming too powerful… and I find many things about our current administration troubling. However, I think the program this evening would have better been served had there been a balance in commentators … those laying out a case for impeachment and those laying out a case against impeachment. I would have found the argument for impeachment much more convincing if the arguments had not been so monolithic, uniform and without any opposition.

LET U.S. WASTE NO MORE TIME...Let U.S. - We The People ACT NOW to force our elected officials to act upon the will of a clear majority of American citizens to bring forth Articles of Impeachment against President Bush and Vice President Cheney. If we do not we have only ourselves to blame for the lowest point in the of history of our country. We are at a tipping point...either we right our ship or our ship will sink.

Every time I watch a program about the current political situation it reminds me of the information that I have heard regarding black operations. We as American people must take action against big government which is currently undermining the core freedoms owed to every man and woman. American's must reunite as a people and understand that our country has become more economically divided and the only way the lower and middle classes will survive is by speaking up. TBC

Bill,
I watched your program on impreachment. It is such an important lesson on constitution. Because of your quality program, I pledge my support of PBS. Keep hope alive. Thank you!!!
-Wen

Thank you for making it clear that we need to limit presidential powers now so that future presidents don't go down the same path. It isn't just the year and a half left for this president it is following the Constitution. Now is the time to impeach!

SINCE THE LAST BROADCAST OF THIS PROGRAM IN MID JULY, CONGRESS VOTED ON AN EXPANDED FISA LAW, OUR 4TH AMENDMENT IS GONE.
CINDY SHEEHAN WAS ARRESTED IN JOHN CONYERS OFFICE FOR ASKING HIM TO KEEP HIS WORD, DO HIS DUTY AND IMEACH. JOHN CONYERS HAD SHE AND 44 OTHERS ARRESTED.SO WHAT DOES THE CONSTITUTION SAY TO DO NOW?
I AGREE DC ON SEPT.15TH, LETS ORGANIZE AND MAKE IT HAPPEN! AMERICANS HAVE TO SHOW UP TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

Impeachment is the only answer. I knew Amreicans wouldn't let King George get away with this. MARCH IN WASHINGTON, SEPTEMBER 15 (ITS A SATURDAY) FOR IMPEACHMENT!!!!BE THERE FOR YOUR COUNTRY!

Bill Moyer, would you please consider running for President of the United States? You would by far be the most qualified candidate and definitely get my vote.

Where is the Legislative branches spine? No doubt hiding beneath a bushel somewhere in Washington.
The Bush/Cheney/Rove machine has divided the country to the point it is a wonder that any two individuals can find common ground.
Impeachment, if it comes, will be much too late to repair the damage that has been done to our country.

John Adams once wrote: "Is the present state of the national republic enough? Is virtue the principle of our government? Is honor? Or is ambibition the avarice, adulation, baseness, covetousness, the thirst for riches, indifference concerning the means of rising and enriching, the contempt of principle, the spirit of party and of faction the motive and principle that governs?"

I ask the same.

MJA

Like Dan Rather, Impeachers will demand confession/proof and then demand impeachment for refusing to comply. When will 'ambassador Joe' get his day in court ? He made his trip to Niger for the CIA ? All information should be classified property of the CIA, NOT for his personal vendetta. ( 007 Joe outdoes James Bond, scouring all of Nigeria by himself ) Sounds like treason/sedition to me. Rather never stopped demanding proof W missed weekend dominoe games while Clinton signed an ROTC contract before skipping out of the country.

If Bush wants Rove to write a book (or isn't telling him not to), then how can he claim Executive Privilege about the subject matter he's apparently going to publish???

By the way, you know, I criticize Bush for his secrecy. And Bill Clinton was vastly better many ways, such as waiving Executive privilege. But particularly in this environment, Hillary should release her records as First Lady. Hillary should be against, not a part of, the ridiculous secrecy surrounding Washington. Hillary knows that sunlight, as it is often said, is the best disinfectant for rotten politics.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-clintondocs14aug14,1,1086895.story?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true

HR 333, submitted by Representative and Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich along with 17 (and growing) co-sponsors, is comprised of three Article of Impeachment against Dick Cheney. It's a shame that PBS seems to be online with the intentional corrupt corporate media "disappearing" of the ONLY Presidential candidate who has the courage to stand up to the political machine, the corrupt corporations, AIPAC, and the miliatry industrial complex and speak the TRUTH and do what is right by ALL of the American people, not just the privileged few.

The White House duo ahould have been impeached in 2004 when the N.Y,Daily times first advocated it. Pelosi's oversight is failing since 80% of congress still represents corporate America and the administration. Either the Republicans squash a good bill,or it passes and the President vetoes it. The public is between a rock and a hard place with this imperial-military gov't,only 30% of congress to represent them,and an autocrat in the W.H.. Because of this an impeachment will never happen,and the two branches of gov't will have another year+ to destroy what little democracy we have left.

Dear Mr. Moyers,

You blatantly neglected to discuss, let alone mention, HR 333 - a current bill before Congress introduced by Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich to impeach Dick Cheney. Please counteract the major media's blackout of Congressman Kucinich and revisit this important legislation in one of your future programs.

General STRIKE 9-11-07
no work, no school
take to the streets
EVERYWHERE>>>>>

I think that viewing this program should be required of every member of a Congresional Legislative Committee, maybe even of every member of Congress. Those who swear to uphold the Constitution (including the President and Vice President, should be required to understand it. Thanks Bill, for rebroadcasting this amazing program.

Wow!
Mr. Moyers, you have hit the bull's eye again (as you did with Barbara Ehrenreich, as well). Last Friday's encore for Mr. Fein & Mr. Nichols was as powerful as the first visit. And the postings are as hopeful as anything can be these days. I'm encouraged that there are many of us out here. Maybe we can save this nation yet.

I am sending the attached to every member of the California delegation:

BARBARA H. BERGEN
Attorney-at-Law
1834 Stoner Avenue #8
Los Angeles, California 90025
(310)444-9663
email: barbara.bergen@gmail.com

November 19, 2001

California Congressional Delegation

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing to all California members of Congress and the Senate about the unprecedented crisis facing our nation and all of us individually who you are mandated to represent. You will find that my views are neither extreme nor partisan but are motivated by my deep love of country and desire to preserve all that I and millions of others value.

The citizen-statesmen who founded our nation understood that the rule of law must be preeminent in light of human flaws and foibles. They refused to accept the arbitrary rulings of a monarch whose self-interest was paramount to the interests of his subjects. The Constitution that resulted from the founders’ deliberations rivals the Magna Carta as the most brilliant codification of mankind’s highest aspirations in all of history. Each carefully crafted word, phrase and sentence was designed to provide the most security and freedom possible to the most people in the newly-formed democracy. The ideas memorialized in the document were formulated with the intent that they would survive the people in each subsequent generation responsible for their implementation. Many of the framers were young farmers and merchants with little political ambition but with the commitment to establishing a nation where citizens were truly supported and encouraged in their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.

In these times, I fear that my children and grandchildren will never know the pride I have always felt in my country and the gratitude I have known of being born into a magnificent model of democracy. I call on you individually and collectively to turn your attention away from politics and toward upholding the constitution as you promised to do in your oath of office.

Today, the health system is broken, the school systems are broken, the infrastructure is aging and becoming dangerous, the justice system is broken and the income gap is growing exponentially. Of utmost importance, however, is the encroachment of the Executive Branch on the constitutionally mandated powers of the Legislative Branch. The White House fails to negotiate nor consult with Congress on matters that are clearly in the purview of the legislature. Signing statements, usurpation of war powers, disregard of requirements of access to justice, endorsement of extreme interrogation methods that may amount to torture, suspension of habeas corpus for certain detainees, incarcerations without charge or timetables for hearings and release, disinformation on combat deaths and disregard of foreign policy evaluations by experts are overwhelming assaults on the vision of the founders. You in the Senate and House of Representatives are consumed with ensuring re-election and jockeying for position at the expense of your primary responsibility to uphold the Constitution.

I urge you to put partisan politics in perspective and to take responsibility for engaging in a careful re-reading of the Constitution and, perhaps, the Federalist Papers. Make no mistake, our nation is in crisis. There is little that I can do as an individual and I therefore implore you to provide the courageous and carefully-considered representation that is your duty and responsibility. All options, including impeachment for violation of the Constitution should be under consideration. I respect your differences in positing solutions but can find no justification for your failure to recognize the profound problems we face. Politics will not resolve these grave national issues – only statesmanship can provide hope for a future that will serve us all.

While I feel essentially powerless, I am willing to participate in any way that any of you deem useful. At the end of the day, however, the final responsibility rests with you. The United States is starved for your leadership. Please don’t disappoint us.

Very truly yours,

Barbara H. Bergen
Attorney-at-Law

I too believe in Our Constitution, However I have lost faith in the Congress and The Senate.THey are too busy worrying about being re-elected, and are not going about doing business as it should be done.
Checks and Balances are important and the current Politicians are too busy worrying about keeping their positions rather than
representing "We" the people...Be Bold and Brave and give partisanship a rest.The oath taken was to the constitution not Republicans, Democrats or any of the other parties.

your voices,letters,emails and telephone calls will not change anything
both cheney and bush are international war criminals and still they are not impeached
you are under dictator rule congress cannot act
or the bush regime will bring down the other boot
which is total dictatorship
you all dont understand you no longer have a free country
it staggers me to read what you people are writting you think you still live in the jeffersonian era
today america is finacially banckrupt
its over its been since reagan took power
only a shuffling of cards and the ppt at the fed keep things afloat along with drug money
you have been looted by a series of wars, pork barrel spendng and theft as in the 1.3 trillion missing in the pentagon no one is fired over it its a sham
what don't yopu understand
China owns you outright
the un owns all your national parks
you owe more than you can pay and its all by design they elite thinkers have done it under your noses
it is thier insurance that the constitution is dismantled for good
brake the back of the economy so that if Americans should protest the NWO and choose to fight for the constitution then they would simply pull the plug to make you beg for the NWO
and the new deal
the AMero wipes out the debt but only when you capitulate and give up the constitution and I mean all of the constitution
the people that refuse to go along will be rounded up and jailed its a simple and straight forward plan yet the media is playing blind mans bluff with the news
and the American people have not had free and open news media since 1961 when jfk dies and arguably long before then
it is over those with delusions of impeachment
are dumber than dumber it is the same as the german people demanding hitler be impeached or the chineese demanding that mao be impeached or russians demanding lenin be impeached
get with the program you have been soundly out done
when bob Dylan wrote the times they are a changing everyone clapped but no one did a damn thing to help their country
today everyone is yelling impeach but the times they have really changed its too late
your words go on deaf ears no matter who you send into congress or the senate
the Decider now tells you what will be
if that should be toxic foods from china then you will eat it or starve as simple as that
can you all not hear the black water goon's boots hitting the pavement in your neighborhoods well you soon will not long after your military is burntout in the desert

the time for talk is over if you want to think in jeffersonian dreams do what they did you criminals in those days
take them down to the oak tree and the rest I leave to you

during the lead up to the war in Iraq Americans cheered for president Bush
The Press was like a rabid dog urging war
all of the media outlet's
news personel were like zombies Pro war
what have you become in America ? animals with rabies !
your Govt has looted your economy
your govt has and is killing your children both with war and drugs
your govt is your nemesis your news media its mouth piece with only lies and propaganda
what has become of the proud Americans
ask any of them on the street they are so iliterate that they believe America is suppose to be a democracy they dont even know it is suppose to be a constitutional republic
now you will face your worst nightmare your own govt and the elites will turn on you
your freedom will be gone forever
and if you should buck the NWO they will see to it that your dollar is worth only 10 cents (indeed it is well underway )and then you will fall to your knees and beg for the NWO
your forefathers spit on all of you from their graves their most cherished gift to all of you has been given up without a wimper
the worst attack on American soil was never even investigated in your press any version other than the official one is shuned and labeled anti AMerican you are like the zionists now if someone quetions the AMerican myths they are labeled anti American
what is left of America
the war in IRAQ is lost
NYC was turned into a toxic dust bowl
and all eyes are on anybody but your true nemesis yourselves
is this what America has become is this what you all have become
liars who would rather look the other way than face the reality of what is happening around you
the true weapons of mass destruction Saddam had was his oil and his switch to the petrol dollar
in the end America has forgotten the most important lesson of it's
existance of how it became a nation
America did not defeat the British in the war of independence the british were the most powerfull empire of the day and was long after America broke away
Britain's mistake was that it had become
drunk with power and arrogance which led to it being over stretched in the world and it could not fight so many wars and supply the troops half way around the world
today America is drunk with power and full of arrogance it to has not learned the lessons of it's past while the wise sages of the islamic world prod you to over extend yourselves will you do just that
today the American dream has truely turned into the American nightmare
and that nightmare is an on going crecendo which will culminate to the point where every American will gnash their teeth and knock their knees
The NWO is here today and will continue to rape you have let it take hold since JFK died you have sown your own end your forefathers now disown you
the price you pay for your failure to take back your country 1961 in which the Media played a major role
is your freedom and all that it entails you are your own nemesis
may god have mercy on you all

To sit and watch this program and see the bi-partisan passion of Nichols and Fein--so convincing as to why Impeachment needs to happen but yet knowing full well that it never will leaves a very hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach!

Mr. Moyers, thank you for this episode on impeachment. I'd never before considered that, as your guest said, "impeachment isn't a constitutional crisis; impeachment is the solution to a constitutional crisis." Thanks for making me think.

It is truly shocking that you failed to mention HR 333, the bill congressman Kucinich has introduced to impeach Dick Cheney.

For those wondering what they can do to move impeachment forward, start with writing your local congressional representatives and asking them to sign on to HR 333. Your representatives need to know that there is support for this bill among their constituents.

Dennis Kucinich introduced HR. 333 to impeach Dick Cheney. Why don't you mention this on your program?

Kucinich in 08!!!

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzalez should have been impeached long ago. Shame on both houses of Congress

Thank you for the repeat and original program w/Fein & Nichols. To listen to men supposedly opposite thinkers and hear their agreement is exciting. I learned much re: the Federalist Papers and the Constitution.
This administration is Criminal and Contemptible..all of them MUST be CHARGED and
Jailed if possible.

Appreciation for The Rule of Law needs to exceed 12 inches, a litre, or several meters; it needs to fill infinity to the brim and overflowing. It is the glue of civilization. Without it, and the order that it imposes, we are a lost world in the vastness of dark matter. Black Holes belong in the cosmos; not within our government. Cheney and Bush need to resign, or be impeached by the people that they have so cowardly attempted to betray calling their actions, leadership.

I have emailed Nancy Pelosi and what else can I do? What else can any single voter do except write outraged emails to members of Congress (their own reps et al) and wait for a "power that be" to act. Where does the power of the outraged American people reside these days?

Thank you for provoking thought and exercising free speech. Well done. The well deserved criticism re: the DK bill in Congress that you all failed to mention requires a response from such thinkers as you.

I watched your presentation on the case for the Impeachment of the President for the second time. I agree with your guests that this is a serious Constitutional crisis. I also know that this President will not be impeached. The country may be inclined to such an action, but it remains paralyzed by division. Most people I know are looking to the next election for a correction of the excesses and violations of this Administration. As a nation, we are in the position of those in Orwell's nightmare vision of the future, a future that is the now of an ill-informed, manipulated and fearful herd of consumers. We have abandoned the position of 'citizens.' This country is now in decline and no one can predict with any certainty how fast it will slde into chaos and tyranny.

Thought provoking show but there were a couple of points missing. As others have mentioned Dennis Kucinich has a pending bill. But the least clear statement was the contention that a "true statesman" needs to come forward to put the Constitution first and politics second to start impeachment procedings. The example given of such an indvidual was Barry Goldwater. But the commentators never specified that this seminal moment was a Republican statesman confronting a rogue Republican President. Nancy Pelosi is absolutely correct that if she or the Judiciary Committee starts impeachment procedures without that kind of Republican ( and I very much emphasize Republican) statesmanship than it will be a political move and not a Constitutional one. As she has said, it will be decried as partisan and divide the country. The two commentators needed to specify that it is necessary for this statesmanship to come from the minority party in Congress--the President's own party or no Constitutional correction will occur.

Thank you Bill. The show was refreshing and educational. It is time we as Americans retrieve our civil rights. There is no excuse for endangering out constitution, our rights, and liberties. Not to mention the respect of the world. We need to respect the rights of citizens and our country first and if our leaders cannot then they should be removed.

I can add little to the positive comments already posted in regard to Bill's conversation with Nichols and Fein except to include my own praise. Like others, I have felt rather politically isolated for the past six and a half years, especially as a resident in Texas. What disturbs me as much as the failure of Democratic leaders to use the levers of power to correct the abuses of the Bush administration is the number of citizens who continue to defend it or who fail to realize the seriousness of its excesses.

I have written letters as well on impeaching Cheney first then Bush...it seems many democrats have gotten quiet...or changed there goals... Rangel, Reid, Pelosi.....do you ever think maybe they or their families have been threatened with violence or whatever?

I appreciate the feeling of empowerment I got from the 2 guests; they well summed up what I have been feeling all along about this administration. The balance of power is greatly in peril. I need to press my representatives to act.
Congress has been complicit. For example, we all speak of the war. Does anyone recall our congress declaring war? No, instead they abdicated this responsibility by handing the president a blank military check.
Read the quotes of James Madison. You'll get a chill down your spine.

How is it that you failed to mention Dennis Kucinich and his bill for impeachment?

As others here have pointed out, this is unforgivable. Appalling journalism!

I think it is an oversight not to have mentioned Dennis Kucinich's HR333 to commence impeachment proceedings on Bush and Cheney.

This discussion of impeachment is long overdue, but very informative. I'm also wondering why Kucinich was not given any credit here. I refer to this comment by JOHN NICHOLS: --there may be such people but their first step, their first step must be something that is very hard in these days of extreme partisanship and these days in money and politics and a media that doesn't cover politics very well. Their first step has to be to say, "I cherish my country more than my party and more than the next election." And so-- probably. We're talking about a Democrat."
We're talking about Dennis Kucinich, and I think that you three gentlemen having this discussion should be giving him your support, rather than ignoring him!

Excellent job on pushing the case for impeachment but no mention of H.R.333! Why are you afraid to mention that Presidential Candidate Rep. Dennis Kucinich is already working actively to dispense with the constitutional menace posed by Dick Cheney? Kucinich at this point may well be the last guardian of the Constitution. Even Ron Paul won't take Bush and Cheney on. Where is the backbone in our government AND the media? Come on Bill! If your story isn't more smoke and Bull S. get out there and let the people know Dennis Kucinich is fighting OUR Fight! Working to right the wrongs done to our country and depose these war criminals.

Shame on you Bill Moyers for your one sided viewpoint on impeachment and for ignoring Dennis Kucinich. I wonder Who is paying you?A VERY disappointing pro-Bush programme.

Too many words here to get the average citizen to take action. 1st, we need a bulleted list of crimes (bullet-proof items, extremely well-researched, just the facts, NO hyperbole,no excess verbage). 2nd, buy a page in every major paper to present it. 3rd, make flyers of the list for people to print and pass out & hang on every bulletin board. 4th, call your local or national radio talk shows to note items on the list & explain where people can get it. 5th, organize a day for impeachment demonstrations across the country. Objective: every citizen should be able to cite at least 10 impeachable offenses of this administration. We have short term memories and are so stunned by the latest offense that we've forgotten the specifics of the crimes that came before. We need help to shake us out of our state of shock. Such a list would demonstrate the preponderance of evidence.
We can't just keep complaining--we need concerted action to reach everyone.

I support impeaching Bush, Cheney, and Gonzales. Mr. Kucinech really should have been brought into this conversation although it was a great broadcast. I really respect Mr. Fein.

George W. Bush: The Man in Retrospect

1), George W. Bush's lost year(AWOL) in 1972 reveals a cocky privileged son who used his family connections to avoid military service in Vietnam and spend seven months in Alabama partying. He clearly skipped out on National Guard duty and avoided a mandatory drug test, all while learning the politics of "dirty tricks," and deception.

2). Bush was arrested in 1972 for cocaine possession, and taken to Harris County Jail, but avoided jail or formal charges through an informal diversion plan involving community service with Project P.U.L.L., an inner city Houston program for troubled youths at the Martin Luther King Jr. Community Center in Houston's dirt-poor Third Ward. Community service was arranged by the Governor's father, ex-president Bush, after he caught Bush Jr. driving drunk.

3). It is not clear that George W fully understood the grand strategy that Wolfowitz and other aides were unfolding. The neo-cons took advantage of Bush's ignorance and inexperience. Unlike his father, a Second World War veteran who had been ambassador to China, director of the CIA and vice-president, George W was a thinly educated playboy who had failed repeatedly in business before becoming the governor of Texas, a largely ceremonial position (the state's lieutenant governor had more power).

4). Supported the actions of the Florida state government—headed by his brother, Governor Jeb Bush—to disallow the results of hand counts and discard the votes of thousands of Floridians, George W. Bush piled one falsehood upon another. As with all practitioners of the “big lie” technique, his aim was to convince not by the plausibility of his arguments, but rather by the sheer brazenness and repetition of his claims.

5). Considering each of the dozens of individual deceptions, lies and misleading statements that Bush and his aides used to push the US into war in Iraq, let's not lose track of the big picture. The Bush administration justified war, immediate war, because alleged weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Those weapons do not exist. They have not existed for years. The Bush administration knew this, because a top Iraqi defector told us this years ago, but they kept that information secret. And weapons of mass destruction were not the reason the Bush administration wanted to invade Iraq. Top officials have even admitted this, saying flat out that they had other reasons but chose WMD because it was the most effective argument politically.

6). Gonzales signs off on a political purge without so much as a second thought because he knew that's what the White House wanted. Gonzales did not question the merits of Rove's list, or look at the performance evaluations, or even give courtesy calls to the targeted attorneys. Gonzales fired them in a pretty brutal manner, but what would you expect from a guy who argued in favor of torturing people?.

7). Bush's decision to commute Libby's sentence. This Administration simply considers itself above the law, This case arose from the Administration's politicization of national security intelligence and its efforts to punish those who spoke out against its policies.

8). The war in Iraq has entered its fifth year and over 3,684 American soldiers are dead and over 27,186 have been wounded. Well over 100,000 Iraqi citizens are dead, mostly innocent civilians, and over 4 million have been displaced from their homes. Our government has already spent half a trillion dollars and the final cost is projected to top one trillion dollars before it's all over. A vast majority of the American people are now against the war, as are most of the U.S. military leadership and members of the U.S. Congress. So why are we still there? Answer: Because the Bush administration won't get us out,

This disgrace of a President not only should be Impeached but Tarred/Feathered and left on the White House lawn as a reminder to future candidates.

J.L. Hart

AHRC

An Article
GEORGIA JUDGES VIOLATE STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS TO DENY JUSTICE

When will the Department of Justice step in and defend the public's rights to DUE PROCESS?

August 01, 2007

By Bahji Adams
Copyright Bahji Adams 2007
Cobb County, Georgia -

On Friday the 13th of July, 2007, Judge KREEGER, of Cobb County Courts in Georgia, held another hearing in direct opposition to Federal (ADA) American with Disability Title II of the 504 Act of 1990, and State mandates such as the "rule of law', case precedent in regards to the "accused" must have "17 days" before the show cause hearing in contempt proceedings.

to read full article go to:
GEORGIA JUDGES VIOLATE STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS TO D...>

Is Online

Aug 11 2007 11:46P

Robert M. LaFollette, Sr. -American Political & Reform Leader -1925:

"let no man think that we can deny civil liberty to others and retain it for ourselves...When zealous agents of the Government arrest suspected 'radicals' without warrant, hold them without prompt trial, deny them access to counsel and admission of bail..we have shorn the Bill of Rights of its sancity as a shield to every American citizen."

"Crime is contagious. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law."

---Louis D. Brandeis - U.S. Supreme Court Justice 1856-1941

The Journal with Fein Nichols and Moyers was awesome. Some one who is good at their job is a beautiful thing to watch. I guess it took Moyers to come out of retirement and back on the air to start this conversation AGAIN (Kucinich and HR333). Bruce Fein is right about everything he said but mostly he’s right about the fact that their is no one in congress that seems to know how to impeach or what impeachment is for. To quote the panel "Impeachment is not the constitution in crisis but the cure for the constitution in crisis" The only way we can sell democracy to the rest of the world is not at the point of a gun but to show them that there are provisions in our system of government to deal rogue officials who make it through the election process but don’t hold the Constitution or the rule of law in high esteem. Impeachment also shows that we believe it when we say that all men are created equal and that no one is above the law. Without that we only show the rest of the world that we are a land of confusion and why would anyone want that?

James O Burns Jr.

This whole idea of impeachment isn't new...Kucinich started it Months ago. I'm offended that mr Moyers left any mention of Dennis Kucinich out. Maybe he is afraid of endorsing him directly, I don't blame him, but he's sorta pathetic to not stand up for himself

Impeachment should proceed to ensure the balance of power is restored. Congress must impeach Bush and Cheney to eliminate the secracy that holds us hostage to their power.

Regarding impeachment—Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi don’t want to pursue impeachment due to the distraction from many pressing issues which have been brought on largely by this administration. I see their point. However, apparently half of the population and I believe this administration needs to be removed. Like most things in life, to move forward mistakes of the past have to be corrected, afflictions cured, infections lanced. Remove this festering boil.

How can you talk about H Res 333 and not talk about Dennis Kucinich?

Why no mention of Kucinich and HR333? We're already going for impeachment, why can't we let it be known that the congress can already start the process?

I am tired of the corporate media ignoring actions already taken. HR333 a resolution to begin impeachment against Cheney was submitted by Rep Kucinich of Ohio months ago. You don't even mention this in you program. I truly believe the media has been corrupted by its corporate owners and refuses to pass the new on to the people.

YOU are a waste of time if you can't provide accurate coverage of a topic. SELLOUTS.

We must be mindful we are dealing with a system. Look for the workings of the unseen hand. To a certain extent we must essentially close our eyes in order to clearly see the truth. It has been clear, our own eyes cannot be trusted. Who could tell four or five years ago what we heard and saw was a deception?

We question if the ball is red, or is it blue. Maybe my friends, there is no ball at all. Maybe the image of the ball was created in order to give teeth to a more outlandish and grand plan, one that is still in the making, even as we deliberate the virtues of our society.

Impeachment is only the begining. Each man, woman and child must be reminded and taught the values of our society. They must understand that each citizen is responsible for the paths of this country. They must be reminded this system is a system of rule by the citizen of this country, and as such it is their responsibility to be informed and to participate in the government. It is a right and a duty,..to mantain and keep the light of democracy burning.

For too long we've taken for granted, it is someone elses problem. For too long we have sit on the sidelines seeing what we can glean without any risk, price, or harm to ourselves. Safety has become such a big marketing ploy, it has essentially become one of the largest noose around our necks dragging us into the life of slavery. Certainly our founding fathers did not deliberate the efficacy of the consitution based on how safe it will be. We need to wake up.

We hear of the word "Freedom" How ironic it is we are engaged into the greatest conflict of the age. Fighting a nation to bring them freedom. The last time I checked - Freedom : "was the right to self determination". Are we saying we have a monopoly on this right as Americans?

I would like the right to my self determination, I would like the right to unbiased news, I would like the right to vote for the leaders of my choice. I would like the right not to be manipulated weather through covet or overt means. If I would like this for myself then so would I for those around,..Including people in Iraq.

So the question is back again to impeachment. This is a tool provided for in our constitution, for the very situation we see evolving in our beloved country. We need to be brave, we need to be wise in our actions. May God help us in these times.

An entire show on impeachment and not one mention of Kucinich's bill on Cheney impeachment?

Your show seems as biased as any media outlet which tries to sideline everyone who is not in the mainstream.

Why the complete blackout on who wrote and sponsors this legislation for impeachment of Cheney and Bush? Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich wrote HR333, the legislation for impeachment and your program never mentions it. He speaks for the people!

To the Editor,

I am not naive to believe, “our country is safe”! The Congress and the Senate “abrogated their constitutional obligation”- “the absolute power...”.
They transfered the “authority to the president to declare war ” based on a policy
that is “fundamentally flawed”. The leaders “breached their duty, trust, obligation and responsibility”. Over 3668 killed, over 27000 wounded at a cost of over $500 billions dollars. “Abrogating constitutional duties, obligation” - justifies impeachment and clean both houses!
“The biggest ECONOMIC PERIL.. is being ignored” by the Congress and Senate! “The most serious threat to the USA is not someone hiding in a cave in Afghanistan or Pakistan but our own fiscal irresponsibility"! The ECONOMIC PERIL - “a tsunami of spending that could swamp our ship of state”.
$500 billions for the war but no funds for health care insurance for all Americans!
$500 million dollars - grants for “the bridge to nowhere”, but no funds for prescription drugs, $700,000,000 million dollars for one district in California,
but no funds to lift the standard of living for all Americans.
“$50,000,000 for indoor rain forest in Iowa”. Our troops used “plywood,
sand begs for protection“ while $2 billions dollars was spent for aircraft - none of the military branches requested”! $13 millions for Katrina diverted for a museum, $22 million “lost at the disease control center”, $34 billion to save credit institutions etc.
“The Water and Energy HB 2419 of 600 pages, it passes at 2:27 am, no one bother
to read it”.
It is a well settled principal of law,“Climbing over second floor balcony at 2:27 am ... leading to a bedroom and fled upon arousing the occupants, is guilty of attempting to
commit burglary. The evidence of... overt act”.
Bring our troops home now – to day. The inflammatory statements, “unilateral military strikes in Pakistan, bombing the holiest Islamic sites of Mecca and Medina, nuke Damascus and Tehran” is enough to set the world on fire.
Rampant corruption, lies, irresponsibility, breached of duties, obligation and plunge
our country into a war, debt and Constitutional crises!

Chris

I watched a good half of that Bill Moyers panel on impeachment and was pleased to see that Bruce Fein happens to be touted as a CONSERVATIVE constitutional scholar. He certainly minced no words about why he thought that GW should be impeached. Well, Bill Moyers, the GOP looked for every possible rationale as to why Clinton ought to get nailed, even to using his sexual proclivities to try to drive him out of office. But when we are looking at a serious refusal by a president to recognize or respect constitutional law, treaties and so on, we have a serious and federal case to make for removing this man from office. GW, Moyers, has a long track record, even before his days as a politician, of being highly unethical in his conduct. Which may well be why he is forever trying to conceal from the public real knowledge of his actions.

Where that was known, the public did have an opportunity and an obligation to remove him from office in 2004. Because that did not happen, Congress now has an obligation to remove him from office beginning now.

In response to another poster, it is my understanding that Al Qaeda did have everything to do with 9/11/2001. It is also my understanding that GW wanted to ship out anyone who had immediate info on Osama bin Laden and also protected Saudi interests over that of the American people. Normally, that conduct would be treason. To date, the GOP aren't principled enough to recognize treason from a president (as long as he is Republican) when they see it. What I find amusing re the Iraq war, GW shakes his fist and whines at Iran for shipping in the weapons that kill our U.S. Armed Forces and Iraqis but insists on propping up with our military the Iraqi government that insists on making nice to Iran that ships in weapons that kill Iraqis and the U.S. Military. As far as I am concerned, Al Maliki insisting on publicly looking for closer ties to a country accused of killing his fellow citizens, would be reason enough to pull all U.S. personnel out of Iraq.

Thank you for airing the Impeachment program again. My PBS station or the cable provider always seems to have technical difficulties when a program like yours is being shown.
Anyway the truth is -
1. Bush and Cheney anr responsible for 911 happening. They were told AlQueda was going to use planes to attack us but did nothing at all to stop them.
2. Bush and Cheney were told by many sources Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction but using the fear factor he convinced most of the American population he did.
3. In a time of war Bush and Cheney gave the richest people in this country a huge tax cut not only putting the burden of paying for this Iraq war on the poor but also on the lives of the poor who can't find jobs other than joining the military.
4. Bush and Cheney have conspired to undermine the constitution of this country in the name of homeland security and our congress is letting them get away with it.
5. Bush and Cheney can't do anything unless it's about going to war or giving more tax payer money to the rich companies like the oil and drug companies.

When Bush first took office in 2000 there was a show on Comedy Central called "That's My Bush" and it made him look like the idiot he really is but after 911 it was against the peoples right to know the truth so the program was pulled never to be seen again. Bill Mohr lost his job because he was the only person with enough balls to tell it like it was.
Just because we are at war does not give the president or anyone else for that matter the right to do or not do what Bush and Cheney have done to America and the whole wide world.
Bush and Cheney should be impeached for so many reasons it's hard for me to list them all. After impeachment Bush, Cheney, Rice, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rove, and Powell should all be charged with crimes against humanity for this war in Iraq. They are not only responsible for the deaths of thousands of our troops and the crippling of tens of thousands more they are responsible for the same against Iraqi citizens only ten times over. They have mismanaged this war in the most incompetent way imaginable. A fifth grader could have done better.

Bush and Cheney are fools and we are even bigger fools for not impeaching them.

I am glad that Impeachment is on the table for more people but am disappointed that there was no mention of Dennis Kucinich and his efforts to Impeach Cheney.

It’s refreshing to see this is happening. Now I can contact Patrick J Fitzgerald and tell him that Jeff Fisher is ready to lower the big boom on Richard B Cheney. The American Turkish Council and its direct relationship with BayPoint School.

Mr. Cheney, meet the man who will defend the absolute truth.

I am going to have you placed in Shackles for so many crimes.

I was very upset the other day when Judge Roberts got ill. I gave to his Chief of Staff key information about you and the ATC and its connection to BayPoint School. Did you try to poison the Chief Justice?

When George went into surgery I prayed with many people in DuPont Circle that he would be OK. You are more evil than George could ever be and George is quite evil. Do me a favor. Tell Chertoff his days are finished along with Alberto Gonzalez and Karl Rove

I am so glad that James Earl Carter and Gerald Ford gave me the added courage along with my true belief in Jesus Christ to never forget about the 35 dead black teenagers I saw photos of on July 27th, 2004 along with so much other evidence.

Good night Richard.
The days of your dictatorship are about to end.

Try the link to my name also. The absolute truth
will be told.

Now for Brad Friedman.

Former NYPD member obtains deleted BradBlog info on Jeff Fisher
Submitted by John Carter (not verified) on Sat, 2006-02-04 22:24.
Jeff Fisher heard Medea Benjamin in Binghamton, New York during
the St. Patrick Four Trial. They did not meet because he was working
with Tarik. Ms. Benjamin will understand that it was important that
Mr. Fisher not risk his exposure to the media then for it could have been
disastrous for the Burn's family.

Unfortunately his photo was taken and was published in the paper and
somebody in law enforcement recognized him. Mr. Fisher got a warning
from an individual that he was going to be questioned for his anti-war
activities and within ten minutes he was on the road to Ithaca, New York
to catch a bus to San Diego with three dollars in his pocket after buying
his ticket. The trip took five days. He left with the clothes on his back
and just three weeks of medicine.

Now for the information that is in the header.

Blogged by Brad on 1/8/2006 @ 1:33pm PT...
Election Reform Sunday Double-Header
Mark Crispin Miller & Brad, Back-to-Back on Air America Pheonix...
Mark Crispin Miller and I -- he of Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the
2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them)

"Election Reform Sunday Double-Header"
(25 comments so far...)

For Comparison,this is what it was and if you click on the link, it is what it is now.
Rovian in nature, Bush in style. USA Patriot Act in restricting Free Speech.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002251.htm

This information was being classified as disinformation. Maria
said it is not. She is a former New York Police Officer.

Any statements that are in brackets are Maria and my opinion

COMMENT #1 [link]
...Ricky said on 1/8/2006 @ 1:54pm PT...
{ed note: Comment deleted. Pure misinformation. Knock it off, Ricky.}

COMMENT #2 [link]
...Ghostwriter said on 1/8/2006 @ 1:55pm PT.

:) Hi, I met Jeff Fisher today in San Francisco in an emergency room. He
has the flu and he seemed to be very feverish. I have been following this
story for a long time.

There is information on a web-site in the Bay Area that might interest
you. Go to Tribe.net and then tribes and search for Jeff Fisher.

I got an email with the link but I am not at home right now.

I am a member of the Green Party. I like this guy and I think you should
be following the story with more interest. I have found a lot of new
information in yahoo groups.

Thanks,
Mary Jane

Go California Bears
UC Berkley

{This has been verified that he was in
San Francisco that day, he was also seen at St. Francis Hospital that day.
Maria has been unable to get anymore information from them.}

COMMENT #3 [link]
...barryg said on 1/8/2006 @ 2:41pm PT...

Ricky the only thing I see dieing is the support for the GOP and the
goon squads hanging around the whitehouse. It was bad enough when
Governors did not want the president to campaign for them now
they will not even want thim in their state.

COMMENT #4 [link]
...Brad said on 1/8/2006 @ 2:57pm PT...

Mary Jane - Jeff Fisher's story seems to be little more than
disinformation spread by folk related to the LaRouche folks. I'd
recommend avoiding that story, like the plague personally. I don't think
Jeff has purposely spread disinfo, but is likely the victim thereof. You
can do a search for "Jeff Fisher" here on BRAD BLOG to read some of my
early reporting on his story when it first emerged just after the Nov 4,
2005 election.

COMMENT #5 [link]
...Shannon Williford said on 1/8/2006 @ 3:06pm PT...

I've read Miller's book (got an autographed copy for xmas...), and it is
strong. Y'all all need to read it.

COMMENT #6 [link]
...Tom Lowenstein said on 1/8/2006 @ 3:22pm PT.

Its not disinformation.

Go to
http://tribes.tribe.net/democraticsocialists/thread/9943ad68-1d81-4b7b-bf4d-deeafbf66e0f#c09723b5-fcc3-48ae-8930-a231cdb3cb1d

The information makes sense and explains a lot. I bet he knows more
than this. The FBI must have scared him. Read the article. I would have
been scared. I got an email from some guy in Hayward about him. He
has become some kind of champion for civil rights in the black community.

COMMENT #7 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/8/2006 @ 4:25pm PT...

Tom:

The Jeff Fisher story is disinformation.

I know its got interesting tidbits, but it is interlaced with so much fake
information involving child rapists its not funny.

I know that Mel Sembler really is connected to the mafia and involved
in some shady things, but come on the FBI stalked Jeff Fisher
everywhere and threatened him!??

The FBI doesn't do that. If that ever really happened, and some
reporter can prove it than those people who harassed him weren't FBI.
And they were probably harassing him not just because they were
whackjob type people, but because Jeff sounded crazy.

The schools out there who hacked "elections" are possible but there
has never been any proof that it happened. And oh I forgot, the real
money-trail for election fraud has since been found and in Ohio it was
connected to Thomas Noe. And most likely the real money trail is tied to
Greenberg Traurig, a lawfirm that is hooked into the mob and wouldn't
waste time hiring school students as hackers.

Doug

{What is interesting here is that Doug E. changes his tone about
Jeff Fisher by sending him an email telling him he believes him.
Maria was able to at able to attain this information from an
intercepted email from Doug to Jeff,

Its nice to have friends who work in Mclean, Virginia.
Yes, the Central Intelligence Agency.}

COMMENT #8 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/8/2006 @ 4:30pm PT...

PS:

For anyone who wants to read that story its right here.

Jeff Fisher story

If you're curious at all its something to look into, and if you know
clint curtis personally you can probably find out if he really sent any
emails. Curtis's emails would prove right away how much of it was
real or not.

Doug E

COMMENT #9 [link]
...Ghostwriter said on 1/8/2006 @ 4:54pm PT.

It must be something to stop the truth from coming out. The GOP is
crazy enough to do things under our noses. Why would a man give up his
own liberties for no money, because he knew the truth and that it must
prevail. I got an email from a Curtis Garner from Hayward that says it all.
I hope that Doug E. finds God and realizes that his actions are truly
unpatriotic and undemocratic.

Mary Jane

COMMENT #10 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/8/2006 @ 5:04pm PT.

Ghost Writer

Hope *I* find god?!??? No offense but you sound like a typical
NEOCON.
You seem to think the whole world revolves around you.

Newsflash: The Jeff Fisher story was most likely *PLANTED* to
prevent people from knowing the truth and nobody wants to
investigate it for that reason!

By the way the FBI, Federal Office I have talked to them before
and they have never been involved in any "Florida" fraud
investigation. They took tips from someone and that is it, I even
know someone who works in Florida. The FBI is who nailed
Tom Noe and sent him to jail for money laundering, money
laundered into Ohio campaign coffers all over the place. Why
would the FBI randomly harass citizens who claimed to have
evidence of crimes? Unless they were just impersonators like the Ohio
Homeland security lockdown in Warren County, Level 10 terror alert.

Doug E.

{Again Doug's professional remarks are proven wrong when Maria
had her friends in Virginia contact the FBI and verify that
Jeff Fisher and Al Rogers did meet with them in November of 2004.}

COMMENT #11 [link]
...bvac said on 1/8/2006 @ 6:39pm PT...

Ok, this is the same Jeff Fisher that appeared at Conyer's election
irregularities hearing and had to be shouted down by the
congressmen? He sounded downright paranoid at the time. Has he
ever offered ANY information beyond the type of ranting he's
become known for? His web-site has been scrubbed and the archive
cache doesn't show anything. A quick search doesn't show any
connections to larouche, but there were several others in attendance
representing him. Asa Gordon offered a strategy for turning over
the election in Ohio based on the number of people disenfranchised
which caught Conyers' ear. It's fascinating to see the different election
reform movements at work and tapestry of disinformation that
threatens them. Utterly fascinating.

COMMENT #12 [link]
...Robert Lockwood Mills said on 1/9/2006 @ 5:54am PT...

On Nov. 7, 2004, the day before the Conyers hearings in D.C.,
Common Cause held a hearing at which Steny Hoyer, Bob Ney, Prof.
David Dill,Nevada Secretary of State Dean Heller, and others
were present. I went to it.

As I was leaving to catch my train home from Union Station, I ran
into Jeff Fisher in the lobby outside the hearing room. He flattered me
by asking, "Are you THE Robert Lockwood Mills?" I said, "I don't
think so, but I didn't realize there was another one." He then told me
about how he had provided John Conyers with iron-clad proof of
fraud in Florida, which turned out to be the business about the kida
at the military-style school being trained to rig election machines.
He said that even his wife didn't believe him, but he was desperate
to tell his story and had traveled from Florida at his own expense
to do so. Since I was a writer, how did he know that, since we'd
never met before?, could I help him? Very odd.

{Mr. Fishers plane ticket was paid for by a friend from North Carolina.
Mr. Fisher told me about this man and how he would pay him back for
his good deed}.

He had been running for Congress from South Florida, so I didn't
Dismiss him out of hand as a kook. Plus, I had just returned
from Florida where I had seen actual vote flipping. We exchanged
e-mail addresses and phone numbers.

Nothing has developed in the last 14 months, so I'm skeptical that
Jeff Fisher actually gave John Conyers anything concrete about the
election. Don't know where Jeff is at this point. The idea that he was
an unwitting pawn in a disinformation plot makes sense to me, though.
Great Rovian-style trick; if you're cheating, create a situation where
someone accuses you of cheating according to an implausible scenario,
then debunk the scenario and ascribe the whole thing to
"conspiracy theorists."

COMMENT #13 [link]
...Tom Lowenstein said on 1/9/2006 @ 1:50pm PT.

I can't believe the misinformation that the Neocons are doing regarding
Jeff Fisher. Contact Al Rogers in Florida. He went with him to the FBI
the first time. Jeff revealed some information but not all because Al's
life was in danger also. Jeff Fisher wanted no harm to anyone. As for
Doug E., I can only assume that he is really the bad guy who wants to
hide the truth about the 2004 election. I got more information on Jeff
Fisher in yahoo web groups. I am glad that people can still tell us the
truth there. I am going to post information I received from Curtis Garner
on Jeff Fisher. Ok, lets see them debunk what they are telling us. I really
hope that Brad starts realizing that Mr. Fisher knew so much that it must
have been overwhelming.

What follows are emails that Tom Lowenstein posted

Received this today:
royromes@yahoo.com

{This story has been verified that it did take place}

I met Mr. Fisher last week in Oakland. He was stopping
another brother from beating up another brother. He actually kicked
a gun out of the brothers hand. He did not run away like most white
folk do. He stayed and helped the brother. Never in my life had I ever
met live a white person in the hood who was blacker inside than me.
I now have and am proud to know this man.

I play on the net and want this information about this dude spread
around California and our country, (this guy is like MLK). I also want
some information on a Tracey Dorsey from West Palm Beach, Florida.
The information on last years election is true and Mr. Fisher can take
down the boys in D.C.

My mama thinks he will probably get killed like MLK and Malcolm X so
lets spread the message fast to save our ass and maybe his. I want
this kind of man to support and work for my brothers and sisters.

Lets make it happen. Lets pray and protect this man and what he
did for us.

He has seen the Promised Land and this time we the people deserve to
see it and feel it too.

Roy Romes
Oakland

Another posting in Yahoo web groups

{Another true event that the NEOCONS do not want the black and white
communities to know about. They will go to any length to discredit
any fine Liberal American who does good deeds for humane purposes}

Its time to talk about getting a brother in the White House.I play
around on the net and search for cool topics on BBS's and the word
is that Al Sharpton has been meeting with Patrick Kennedy to consider
a 2008 run for the White House. This ticket would reveal racism and
poverty in our country that would get media attention like Katrina did.

Now that is Shock and Awe!!!

To get this to happen people on the net,(moderators)and in D.C. all of
you must stop hiding the truth about the greed and ignorance in our
own party.(Democratic) The Green Party has it together. Take notice
to this.

"Fool me once, shame on you" Fool me twice, shame On me".

Tell Kerry to drop out now. He did nothing right in 2004.
He sold us out.
Did he vote for the war?
Did he vote for the Patriot Act?
Did he call for a recount in Ohio?
Did he listen to informants who had evidence?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a Democrat.

What opened my eyes to the truth only happened in the past month, so
maybe you have the same excuse. After you read my email, I hope you
didn't live the same life as I did. If you did,then get your act together.

I met a Democrat in December that I think is an angel in the making. I
told my mama about this man and what he has done for me alone has her
going to church everyday thanking God for letting this man be exiled to
the Bay Area. My mama is right and our pastor has begun a crusade for
this man to get his message of saving the black community at any cost.

In the subject line is three names listed, these men will Give America a
real chance because they are different from the mainstream clergyman,
politician and activist. I now want to tell you about myself.

I'm 25 yrs old, have an MBA, Democrat, and Black and live in Hayward,
California. I also got hooked on cocaine and martinis in college
Seven years ago. I went to a very prestigious school in New England.
Five years later I was out of school and thinking I could take the world
by the(B&lls). Look out Wall Street, I was going to make a bundle
and live the good life. The market was tanking and I was still getting tanked.

College taught me some things that should not be allowed. I failed in
New York City, I went to Chicago and did worse than the White Sox's
and off to L. A. Well that is no place to make it when you have a drug
problem. Everybody uses drugs there. My parents rescued me but I
failed them too, They brought me back to San Francisco but I went to
UC Berkley to party and protest the Bush Administration for all my problems.

I was a mess and all the rich white and oriental kids didn't care about
what was happening in Oakland. They only cared about making money
but putting on a front by looking like hippies. It is pure Bull. Blacks
know Bull-Sh-T when they are confronted with it.

That is why we are not going to stand by in 2008 for the same lies from
our own party. We know Bush lies, its time to expose the lies the Dems
do.

Well I was wrong about some Democrats; I found out that these three men
were different and deserved respect, honor and the chance to spread the
word of MLK, Malcolm X and Robert Kennedy. Yes they are dead.

The message they taught America is alive in the black community.These three
men, Sharpton, Kennedy and Fisher can revive America and make us whole again.
Its time to elevate our nation and regain our dignity and respect as a
real democracy for all the people.

Last month I was about to commit suicide , yet for some reason I
listened to my mama and went to Trinity Church on Bancroft Street in
Berkley instead looking for help one last time. I am glad I went
because there is where I met a homeless federal politician from
Florida that was wise and had a soul of an angel. His actions saved
me. He offered me food (Big Deal), he offered me knowledge (Big Deal),
he offered me hope (That was a Big Deal), and I needed that. On any
other day I would have walked away and said NO and then I would
have gone to the Golden Gate in S. F. and got high and jumped. I was
that desperate and lost.

I am glad that I listened to my mama because I got a helping hand
that has changed my life and I am spreading the word that this man
can help all the brothers across the country. I have done a lot of
research and this man is real, honest and a true humanitarian. I will
send links of information on this man so you can read for yourself
why an angel in Berkley can save our nation by uniting with
Al Sharpton and Patrick Kennedy.

Its 2006 and I am clean for over a month. Thank you God (people on the
net have to understand that God can be part of our life without being
part of politics) (The black community accepts God but they knowwhen
it needs to be separate from the state) so chill, liberals.

The Republicans love to divide us on these issues. I want the party
to understand why we keep losing. I want the corruption, lies and
cover-ups to stop. I want an open and honest government. Perfection
of our leaders is impossible.

That should be a message that Democrats can tell Republicans. All we
have to tell them is that Democrats obey the law of the land. Men and
women make mistakes and we all know this. What our leaders must not
do is break their oath of protecting the law.

Both sides do it. Our government loves to delay any good things. The
last good thing was the Civil Rights Act which died when
Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were killed.

I have met Mr. Fisher four times since that day at Trinity Church.
Getting him to talk is like pulling teeth. He is quite reserved and
seems to holding back because he appears in my eyes to be
protecting someone who means a lot to him.

I believe that he is in love with someone who wants him to
not reenter the political arena. I hope that is not the case, he has
tremendous potential to be a driving force for mankind and
improving the horrendous living conditions that our brothers have
had to endure in urban America.

I can tell you he said he has one friend who helped him that means
everything to him when his family and many others decided that his
passion for justice was not necessary because it challenged the
powers that keep everything hidden from the populace. It must be a
woman because he was crying when he talked about that friend,
that person must be very special,

I am glad that they helped him. I hope they will continue helping him.
He appears to be alone at the present moment. I remember my father
Crying when my mama was diagnosed with cancer, he cried all the time.
My father loves my mama, that is why I think he must have a very
special love in his life.

My mama thinks the same and she told me that it is important to
tell everyone my story and let them know that there are angels in
America who want to help with open hands. I think that these three men
can offer our country those open hands. Trinity means a lot and this
must be a sign to get our act together so the dreams, words and actions
of MLK, Malcolm X and Robert Kennedy were not in vain.

I am including links to these three men so spread the word and Lets
Unite Democrats Now and bring back dignity and honest to the greatest
country that ever existed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21903-2004Jul28.html

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:4woqeje6WugJ:image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2003/01/14/sharptonX.jpg

http://www.patrickkennedy.house.gov/
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.patrickkennedy2002.com/images/foto_pk.jpg&imgrefurl=http://necdc.browndemocrats.org/info/nedemsspeakers/&h=207&w=156&sz=6&tbnid=jrEOcN4S9YoJ:&tbnh=100&tbnw=75&hl=en&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpatrick%2BKennedy%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001344.htm#65

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001344.htm#66

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002183.htm#41
{This link above is very interesting, it provides insight into Jeff Fishers
character and his constant fight for Floridas citizens on protecting their
right to vote and be counted.}

http://electionfraud2004impeach.blogspot.com/2005/12/att-maxine-waters-and-john-conyers.html
{What is interesting is that this blog has several links that are no longer working.}

http://web.archive.org/web/20040120191243/http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/dadnemo1.jpg

These are his children that he is protecting.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040120191243/http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/photo/Jamie&David.jpg

Yahoo group posting

{More Information that Jeff Fisher was able to reach our future, a college students mind. That must be scary to NEOCONS.}

My friends in L.A. told me about this cool cat at Berkley, (I'm from
Santa Barbara and go to school at UCSF) who tried to take on the
government last year. The Bush government has already taken away
our rights so this is nothing new.

Well, I thought that until my brothers and I did some real research on
this guy. Holy Sh-t, this guy did the government over and he is a force
to be respected.

I am spreading the word to a whole lot of people and they will spread
the word too. The information we have on Fisher is cool and it really
rocks. Power to the People.

Maybe this guy should be in Washington D.C. helping the Dean people,
the Kennedy people, the Wellstone people and my brothers all want him
to help the Sharpton people. We found out that he had two black women
who ran his operation against the will of his wife and the people,
(Democrats) of West Palm Beach. That is a cool thing to do.

He fought for our rights last year and we also found out that he worked
as a protester in 1966 and 1967 in Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia for
Martin Luther King Jr. This was verified by some friends who have a
close and quiet contact with the late Ron Brown's family.

For more information join 2004_Presidential_Election@yahoogroups.com
and then read message # 26041,26048,26058,26067,26071,26082 I also
sent this information to the DNC to see if they will act on this information
or if they are really what our worst fears could be, cowards to the American
Democratic Voter. I pray they be not.

{The yahoo group above is no longer in existence.}

The following is information on what Mr. Fisher did for the voters
and his support and plans he had for us. I wouldn't blame him for not
ever running again for public office but it would be nice to see him
working for the party promoting Progressive issues and defending our
voting rights.

E-mail Congresswoman
Maxine Waters at mike.murase@mail.house.gov
Her phone # is (323) 757-8900

E-mail Congressman John Conyers at jerry.omalley@mail.house.gov
or karen.morgan@mail.house.gov
His phone # is (313) 961-5670 or (734) 285-5624

Tell them that there is a lot of information that is new in
several Yahoo Web groups regarding Jeff Fisher and information
that he was not able to reveal to the Committee last December.

COMMENT #14 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/10/2006 @ 12:42am PT...

I've read the whole thing and I wish you could summarize it in just one
paragraph.

The DNC won't do a damn thing, so if there was proof or something and this guy brought it there, it was probably dismissed.

After witnessing the whole hacking demonstration in Florida using
banned-interpreter code, I am more curious than ever about this
story....I shall look into some items and contact VoteTrustUSA if I find
anything concrete.

Doug E.

COMMENT #15 [link]
...Tony Levy said on 1/10/2006 @ 5:06pm PT...

:) I am posting information from emails that show that Mr. Fisher is the
real McCoy. I am going to go through all my emails and start posting
them to Democratic Underground and BradBlog. This time America
will not be silenced.

Thanks Vicki, I am forwarding your message so everyone else can read it.
I have sent this email to Palm Beach County Democrats and they
seem to ignore any true action. Florida doesn't really want to put
Democrats in office that is true to all the voters. The information on
Sen. Bill Nelson is not what we want from our own party, how could
he have turned down election information in September of 2004 in
Martin County when it was presented to him. Did he not take an oath
to protect the voters?

Why did all the emails my wife and I have sent to the Palm Beach Democratic
Executive Committee has been ignored. We went to their web-site and posted
emails. I am asking for a response because I am going to send this blog
to every group I belong to and am asking for everyone to send this message
out to their friends who want the next elections to be fair and honest. How
many people must die because of the information that Jeff Fisher tried to get
to America and Congress last year.

Yes, my friends in Chicago have done research and discovered that people
have died due to his information that tied the election to Dr. Piotr
Blass, Sean Lennon, Clint Curtis and Karen Hughes. Yes that is new
information that has been leaked out of the justice department this
week. Bush is beginning to have his own people let the information out.
Rats run when the water gets to deep. The ship is sinking and the rats are
trying to save themselves. I will be posting more information on
Democratic Underground too.

The Truth is that the Democrats can not do business without the
Republicans and that it is an election year they will walk like roosters
but remember that in 2005 they did nothing to change the voting laws.
The Republicans can just sit back and watch and laugh at the voters for
believing that leaders such as Pelosi and Wexlar fight for us when the
truth is that they did nothing to stop George Bush from becoming
President on January 6th again.

Thank you Sen. Barbara Boxer for being the one Senator who stood up
to say no. Sen. Bill Nelson from Florida said yes. Democrats in both
houses should be ashamed.

You had the information since December and you did nothing.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE DEMOCRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE FIND A TRUE DEMOCRAT AND HE GETS
DESTROYED AND LEFT OUT IN THE COLD.
LETS GET THIS MAN "JEFF FISHER" WORKING FOR
THE DNC AND OUR LEADER, HOWARD DEAN.
WE NEED PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS NOW.

Vicky Davis wrote: Tony.... this is the means by which the radical
elements in the democratic party retain control. They set rules for
local party activities that dictate that they can only work on local
issues - not national. I got into the same situation in Idaho. I was going
to get involved with the democrat party because I was so disgusted with
the Republicans. I joined a local group... I was going to write articles
for their web-site. Before I could even write one article, I was told that I
could only write on issues local to my community - example given
(I swear to God this is the truth) - I could write an article about which
street the driveway for the new Walmart superstore emptied out on.

I was in shock... but I thought, well maybe the democrats in my town
are just inbred morons. So I joined another group out of Boise.... same thing.
I got into a discussion with a publisher in Colorado who was sponsoring
the web-site. He is the one who told me that it was the policy of the
democratic party to muzzle local groups... and allow the discussion of
national issues only by the national party apparatus.

Tony Levy wrote:
This information is not political. It is about an American who defended
your voting rights last year. Your attitude is why election problems
exist. Open your eyes and see what a true American did for us and how
our own government has covered up the truth. This message is being
sent to other groups so they can understand what is going on in
North Carolina and what information they are ignoring. To everyone
who receives this message pass the word on. The truth must not be
covered up.

Joyce McCloy wrote: Dear Tony:

Please take us off of your political mailings.
Our group is set up to discuss the developments in North Carolina.

Our members do not want political emails, they can subscribe to other
groups for that purpose.

This message board is solely for communicating about the verified
voting issues in North Carolina, not issues about impeachment etc.

Thanks.

Lets get Jeff Fisher who is in Berkley involved. We now have his direct
#. 510-843-6800 #778

Spread the word so everyone who believes its time for the truth to come
out to contact him. This is an impeachable offense. Conyers and Boxer
would then have two strikes on the President.

Just remember Mr. Fisher has been avoiding everyone because of the
FBI putting pressure on him. If you need further information regarding this
I will send you the emails that explain why this man was missing
over a year.

He is the 2004 Election Whistleblower and more important he has
the information that would have had Al Gore as the President in 2000.

I am sorry for the man who used foul language. I am going to send you
other information on Jeff Fisher because it was him he had the proof
that your election last year was rigged and the FBI made it hard on him.

Joyce McCloy

To the people in California: Berkley has a Florida hero (Sorry George)
that defended us (voters) last year and has been left out to the wolves.
Read about Jeff Fisher and spread the word to other Democrats and to
our Democrats in Congress. Its about time that they help this citizen who
defended all of us last year.

This message is being sent to Mike, Kindra, Geoff and a Palm Beach
voter. Our resources have gathered information that you all know
Jeff Fisher. We also know that you were friends of his. Please help spread
the word in your groups that he is alive but as of today Berkley has a lot
of Republicans who are infiltrating our life. They are coming from
Orange County.

Michelle Gabriel wrote:

Dear Dr.Homasey,

Our research has discovered that you traveled with Mr. Fisher to
Dearborn, MI in 2003 to an AAI Convention. We also learned that he
had written a Roadmap to Peace that was exceptional since it was
coming from a true Democrat that was looking for peace in the
Middle East. We also earned that it alienated many Jews against him.
If you have a copy of it could you send it via email or post it on the
Internet so people could read it. We believe that the Bush
administration learned of this through Congressman Wexlar's office
and that the Israeli's put additional pressure on Jeff Fisher following
the Election that led to his illness at George Washington Hospital
on December 16, 2004. He just appeared in Berkley about three weeks
ago. I hope that you can help this man. What we have learned is that he
would have been a great Congressman and what he should be doing is
working in Washington D.C. for the party or the state department as a
liaison bridging the gap between the U.S.and the Middle East.

{The Peace Plan has been found and linked.}

http://web.archive.org/web/20040610120547/walkingwithfisher.com/positionpaperpalestineisraelpeaceplan.htm{it only has two links not working.}

Tony Levy
Walnut Creek, Ca

Mike Smith wrote:

You could have had a better Congressman. Did you know that Mr. Fisher
was stuck in his home when the hurricane hit his home. He still got out
and helped his neighbors and saved a persons life by removing a piece
of wood from a child's head and not looking for the media to tell about it.
I got a call from a person who witnessed this.
Mark Foley was on TV handing out water. So did George. Big Deal

Ellyn Stevenson wrote:
You know how bad things are here when I tell you that Mark is not the
worst we have to deal with!
Good luck.
Ellyn

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 10:18 PM
To: Ellyn Stevenson
Subject:

I understand. Did you know that Jeff Fisher who ran against Mark Foley
did all this for everyone, not just his district or the state of Florida but for
our nation? Maybe you should tell people that this is what all of our
Congressmen should act like. Please keep in contact.

Ellyn Stevenson wrote:
Yes, but I use the group for members of my precinct. It is a small
neighborhood, and members are blocking the emails now because of what
you're sending. We are in a very Republican area and I am trying to keep
these folks interested and active on a very local level.

Thank you for understanding.

Ellyn Stevenson

From: chris hazelwood

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 13:10
To: People-v-Ohio-n-Florida@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [People-v-Ohio-n-Florida] URGENT - CSPAN to have
Jeff Fisher (Like in a few Minutes)

On C-Span at about (Time was a guess by Jeff Fisher) 11:30 AM
PAC TIME today (Thursday) is Jeff Fisher talking about Election
Fraud on C-SPAN (in front of Congress?) try to watch if you can.

I got a call from Jeff Fisher and he ask people to get the word out. He
was in a definite hurry, so It wasn't made clear if he's a speaker or if
he was a person in the audience who was asking questions of the congress
, but I think it's the later.

From what I could get from Jeff Fisher, he will be speaking near the
end of this event. I think it's on C-SPAN 1, but check C-SPAN 2 from
time to time in this next hour.

Mr. Fisher called me about 20 mins ago and was trying to get the word
out... It seems his Internet server is not working right, (is he being
blocked from his Freedom of Speech?) and so he had to call me and others
to get the word out.

Thanks to all.
- Chris

COMMENT #16 [link]
...Curtis Garner said on 1/11/2006 @ 9:31am PT...

I now understand the power on the Internet. My own email address has
been disabled and my information has been changed at mail.com I hope
that anyone who I emailed will get my new address. I know this happened
to Jeff Fisher and I will not let this man get stopped again.
My new email address is curtisgarnerhayward@yahoo.com

The cover-up of the 2004 election will not continue. The black community
will unite and protect this man because he has integrity that scares the
people who have sold us out.

{Interesting since Yahoo has been giving political web groups problem
the past two weeks.}

Curtis Garner

COMMENT #17 [link]
...Tom said on 1/12/2006 @ 1:20pm PT...

Ok you nay sayers

Tomorrow you can try to stop Jeff Fisher but he will be protected by
his brothers from Oakland, Los Angeles and San Francisco. We have
a following and he will get his message delivered. Its ordained this
weekend by the late Martin Luther King Jr. A child will lead us out of
bondage. That was more than 35 years ago. Mr. Fisher is 44 years old.
He is the child that MLK envisioned.

{Nothing can be more terrifying than bringing about a prophetic statement from the late MLK. That would scare any racist a.k.a. NEOCON.}

The message is posted below

To meet Jeff Fisher on Friday the 13th in San Francisco at 2 Stockton
at Market Codys Bookstore- Approx. 5:30 P.S.T. He will be talking
about the proof that he had to withhold on December 8th, 2004 with
President Jimmy Carter.

After the CSPAN broadcast on December 8th, 2004 where he has been
criticized by many individuals he openly admits that he was very scared
and nervous. The reason that nobody knew why his emotions were in
turmoil was because he had just received a blocked ID phone call that
told him that his companion would be in grave danger if he told the
committee too much. He has remained quiet because he wants to protect
this person at all costs. The person is safe now so he feels that the
time is right to expose the culprits.

He has told our pastor on the phone that he is bone tired of living in a
homeless shelter, but he says it was an important time to learn that
America has abandoned countless Americans at the stroke of a pen.
He also told us that it is time for a real change of leadership in America.

He says its time for America to elect a black man to represent us in the
White House. He says its not the color of any mans skin that makes him
a leader, its his soul. He feels that Al Sharpton and Patrick Kennedy
would make this country whole in spirit again.

When our pastor asked him what do you want?
He replied, All I want to do is help my friend who protected and
supported me when no one else would.

He also added, I would like to be able to work with the party on issues
that I have become experienced in, such as homelessness and the plight
of urban black America

On a final note he said that voting reform will only take place if
Democrats develop true strength and say No to the President and the
GOP on every issue.

He said that there are some that have attained that strength, they showed
that when they challenged the Electoral College on January 6th, 2005.
He said it was a shame to only see Barbara Boxer as the only Senator
to show such internal strength.

Call and thank her,

Barbara Boxer
(415)-393-0707 {This was the wrong number}
(415) 403-0100 {This is the correct number}
Fax (415)-393-0710 {This was the wrong number}
Fax (415) 956-6701 {This is the correct number}

COMMENT #18 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/14/2006 @ 8:47pm PT...

Al Rogers,

I have reviewed the allegations and now have a pressing interest
in this issue.....

Bottom line: Please see my message at your yahoo group immediately.

If the allegations are at all correct, and they seem partially correct
at least from who I've talked to, then its high time to stop sending out
useless emails and simply release the evidence.

Doug E.

COMMENT #19 [link]
...Maxine said on 1/15/2006 @ 12:29pm PT...

Secret Service-President Carter-Fisher working together.

January 13th 3 p.m. P.S.T.
Secret Service Agents assigned to President Carter met with Jeff Fisher
in San Francisco.

Fisher relayed pertinent information pertaining to the 2000 & 2004
general elections specifically to Florida and North Carolina. President
Carter will be viewing this info and keeping in contact with Mr Fisher.
The President and Secret Service have Mr. Fisher's Cell # and have
constant knowledge of his whereabouts.

Florida information 2000

Confirmation of pre election correspondence assuring the election
results for the November General Election of George W Bush over
Al Gore.

Evidence: email from Joe Klock to a prominent upper echelon
national campaign official connected to the Bush 2000 team

North Carolina

Evidence confirming hardware coding & specialized BIO"S that
could alter election results by affecting software in15 seconds
used by Sequoia, ES&S and Diebold.

Further Supporting evidence
E-mail from Sean Lennon in mid 2004 to West Coast IT CEO verifying
flawless results that were tested in Louisiana, Georgia, and California
training facilities.

Visit BradBlog.com and Democratic Underground.com for more updates
on the Jimmy Carter and Jeff Fisher meeting.

COMMENT #20 [link]
...Maxine said on 1/15/2006 @ 12:55pm PT...

Secret Service-President Jimmy Carter-Fisher working together.

January 13th 3 p.m. PST
Secret Service Agents assigned to President Carter met with Jeff Fisher
in San Francisco.

Fisher relayed pertinent information pertaining to the 2000 & 2004
General Elections specifically to Florida and North Carolina. President
Carter will be reviewing this information and keeping in contact with
Mr. Fisher.

The President and Secret Service have Mr Fisher's Cell # and have
constant knowledge of his whereabouts.

Florida information 2000

Confirmation of Pre-Election email regarding the election results in
the upcoming November General Election assuring George W Bush
defeating Al Gore.

Evidence: Email from Attorney Joseph Klock to a prominent, upper
echelon, national campaign official connected to the Bush 2000 team

North Carolina- Evidence confirming hardware coding & specialized
BIO'S that could alter election results by affecting software in15 seconds
used by Sequoia, ES&S and Diebold.

Further Supporting evidence- Email from Sean Lennon in mid 2004
to West Coast IT CEO verifying flawless results that were tested in
Louisiana, Georgia, and California training facilities.

Visit BradBlog.com and DemocraticUnderground.com for more updates
on the Jimmy Carter and Jeff Fisher meeting.

COMMENT #21 [link]
...Cecil W. said on 1/15/2006 @ 2:06pm PT...

Contact Boxer/Conyers/Kucinich/Rangel/Meeks/Franks/Kennedy

I have been following this and it has been verified that he did show up
at the bookstore and had his information passed on to the Secret
Service. Since this is the case, Its time to call Senator Boxer,
Congressman John Conyers, Congressman Dennis Kucinich,
Congessman Charles Rangel, Congressman Kendrick Meeks,
Congressman Barney Frank and Congressman Patrick Kennedy. T
hese Democrats must know about this transfer of vital information.

To reach them I am posting their phone numbers.

Start Calling them on Tuesday and every day for a week demanding
that they make this know to all Americans.

Tell them it is their duty to serve the Constitution and the American people.

Senator Boxer
San Francisco 415-403-0100 Los Angeles 213-894-5000
Sacramento 916-448-2787 San Diego 619-239-3884
Fresno 559-497-5109 San Bernardino 909-888-8525
Washington D.C. 202-224-3553

Congressman John Conyers, Jr.
Washington D.C. 202-225-5126
Detroit 313-961-5670

Congressman Dennis Kucinich
Lakewood 216-228-8850
Parma 440-845-2707
Washington D.C. 202-225-5871

Congressman Charles Rangel
Washington D.C. 202-225-4365
New York City 212-663-3900

Congressman Kendrick Meeks
Washington D.C. 202-225-4506
Miami Gardens 305-690-5905
Pembroke Pines 954-450-6762

Congressman Barney Frank
Washington D.C. 202-225-5931
Newton 617-332-3920
New Bedford 508-999-6462
Taunton 508-822-4796

Congressman Patrick Kennedy
Washington D.C. 202-225-4911
Pawtucket 401-729-5600

COMMENT #22 [link]
...Karen Anne said on 1/15/2006 @ 2:19pm PT...

Does anyone have a recent photo of Jeff Fisher? I live in San Francisco
and would like to know what he looks like.

I want to know who is the special love he is protecting. Is he cute.
I know he is divorced. Wow, if a guy did this for me I would want
to marry him. I don't care if he is homeless. This man is devoted
to his nation and to some very special person he must care about
to the endth degree. I think that is very sexy.

Karen Anne

{Fan mail -Maria said that out of twenty-five blogs, one looking for booty is nothing out of the unusual, especially in San Francisco.}

COMMENT #23 [link]
...Virginia Metze said on 1/15/2006 @ 5:55pm PT...

http://www.jefffisher.com/ has only one word on it -- Elaine
Don't know what this means if anything

{Maria is investigating this.}

COMMENT #24 [link]
...Bev Harris (the real Bev Harris) said on 1/15/2006 @ 8:54pm PT...

One of the posts above is confusing and misleading. It mixes a private
e-mail from me to a "Curtis Garners" with the author's own comments.

For the record, Black Box Voting has never been into the Jeff Fisher
story, I have not heard anything yet to indicate it is plausible.

The ONLY actual quote from me from the huge post above is this:

"There are many election reform organizations. Have you contacted
John Gideon of VotersUnite.org or Brad Friedman of bradblog.com?

Let me know how they respond to your tips. Thanks!"

It is in response to this private email from Curtis Garner, who was
sending emails around implying that I was looking for Jeff Fisher
information:

To Bev Harris, I am ashamed of you. Are you related to Katherine Harris?
You and the rest of the establishment are now banking on election
problems. You ask for money! Did Jeff Fisher ask for money when he
exposed the truth last year? NO! He doesn't even know about me posting
information on him. I told you he has become very quiet. Its time to
Wake Up America to the Truth. I am going to let the entire world know
that you have taken the position of hiding the truth. I am awaiting your
reply.

-----------------

Not wanting to be rude, I simply thanked him for the information and
suggested he take them elsewhere.

I also notice in the post above that the author includes various comments
by people completely unrelated to me and then sticks links to Black Box Voting
pages under them.

This does seem like disinformation tactics.

{Ms. Harris is good at election issues yet she needs to learn what misinformation
is. Maybe a lesson on understanding 9/11 and the lies from Condoleezza Rice to
the United Nation might give her a realunderstanding of what tactics are used
in the intelligence field.}

Bev Harris

COMMENT #25 [link]
...Raymond said on 1/17/2006 @ 1:09pm PT...

Our groups along with me know who Mr. Fisher is. We also know that he is in contact
with people like John Conyers legal staff.

Maria has been informed by the agency that Ted Kalo from the House Democratic
Judiciary Committee and Carol Patton, Lead Counsel for Congressman John Conyers Jr.
are investigating Mr. Fisher's information.

Our national investigative group has been watching him since his short time in
Binghamton, NY last September, when he was helping the Anti-War Group, the
St. Patrick Four.

Mr. Fisher was reported to have given key Constitutional questions to
the defendants to beat the conspiracy charges that the U.S. Government
was attempting to indict them on.

This was the charge that they were found innocent on.

The group was found guilty on misdemeanor charges only.

This was reported to Maria again by our friends in Virginia.

We have monitored his phone calls and whereabouts from Binghamton
to New York City to Philadelphia to San Diego to San Francisco.
The government must understand we are watching them too.

Mr. Fisher has been observed living in homeless shelters and hotels
in these cities. Somebody helped him at times and left him at times
to fend for himself.

We all know he is working hard to expose the truth. All of us also know
that he is in danger of being harmed. Everybody should respect
and admire a man who protects others and still doesn't sell himself to the
corporate world.

One of our operatives saw him in Sausalito yesterday on Martin Luther
King, Jr. birthday with a beautiful black woman. They were talking
and eating lunch overlooking the ocean. Is this the mysterious love?
We believe that he is moving on to protect someone else.

We do know that he is protecting more than a dozen people from being
put in harms way. We have not been able to intercept his conversations
with the Secret Service, however we have intercepted one of his calls
to an individual in Ohio and learned that the list he wants to have Carter
work on contains thirty names.

Raymond

{This information posted has Maria worried because her instincts
tell her that Jeff Fisher appears to being followed by the
National Security Agency.}

{For our security reasons and for Mr. Fishers we are going to
blog this entire letter.}

Brad Fiedman, you are now exposed. The truth must be completely exposed. Its like the oath of the land.

You either adher to it or you get out or office.

Tuesday, December 05, 2006
......MESSAGE TO BRADBLOG DOT COM.......
We are no longer playing games with you, or any of the media.

You witness a serious and threatening crime relating to National Security, you report on it.

http://thejefffisherfiles.blogspot.com
http://www.thestraights.com

http://www.erichufschmid.net/MasqueradeParty_Part_3.wmv
http://chicagobearssuperbowlchamps.blogspot.com/

http://uspolitics.einnews.com/news/mark-foley

We're doing this for a Jewish woman and her family, not for you. Its to show the world just how much censorship there truly is out there. You know it.

You see its a fact that not only the corporate media, is fully pro corrupt Zionist.

But the online media is as well, and we have the proof.

http://nomorefraud.blogspot.com/2006/11/whistleblowers-circle-theft-of-country.html
http://nomorefraud.blogspot.com/2006/10/musings-of-new-election-fraud.html

http://nomorefraud.blogspot.com/2006/11/future-of-voting-now-lies-in.html
http://nomorefraud.blogspot.com/2006/08/for-fbi-secret-service-us-marshals-all.html
You may think you can hide, but you can't. No other places censor CIA agent Seymour Hersh's comments when he spreads the word of this crime. There isn't another which censors his very name. It happens to be yours, DailyKOS, LittleGreenFootballs and the many right/left wing pro-Zionist sites. Are you that horrified of the truth, that your friends in AIPAC....corrupt Frankist Zionists, for a fact did this? Over and over again.

http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html
You knew everything going on there they will testify.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/12/09/foley.emanuel/index.html
"It was cursory only, rumors" Rahm Emanuel regarding Mark Foley

You see Brad in the end, we have millions more people who visit ours. Your name is going to be mud, just like the New York Times and many others. And not because of what we say by any means. Because of the simple fact that the uncensored truth is being exposed, and our whistleblowers are exposing it.

PS: Jeff Fisher & Nadia Sindi are only a sample of the many whistleblowers tossed aside by the entire system.

Go here to find out more: They can always use your help, always, and any is appreciated.

http://nomorefraud.blogspot.com/2006/10/musings-of-two-new-whistleblowers.html

Have a nice day.

Roger

posted by Roger Rancourt at 10:00 PM

Here is the link with screen shots of what a Zionist will do in America. 35 dead black teenagers just to start with and you think thats ok.

You are in Los Angeles Brad.

I hope the brothers in South Central find you. I lived there for a while when I was homeless last year. i get along with my brothers. You on the other hand are a racist.

http://nomorefraud.blogspot.com/2007/08/december-05-2006message-to-bradblog-dot.html

Now for more reasons to now what evil lurks in the mind of a Zionist named Brad Freidman.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/7457#comment-35073

Former NYPD member obtains deleted BradBlog info on Jeff Fisher
Submitted by John Carter (not verified) on Sat, 2006-02-04 22:24.
Jeff Fisher heard Medea Benjamin in Binghamton, New York during
the St. Patrick Four Trial. They did not meet because he was working
with Tarik. Ms. Benjamin will understand that it was important that
Mr. Fisher not risk his exposure to the media then for it could have been
disastrous for the Burn's family.

Unfortunately his photo was taken and was published in the paper and
somebody in law enforcement recognized him. Mr. Fisher got a warning
from an individual that he was going to be questioned for his anti-war
activities and within ten minutes he was on the road to Ithaca, New York
to catch a bus to San Diego with three dollars in his pocket after buying
his ticket. The trip took five days. He left with the clothes on his back
and just three weeks of medicine.

Now for the information that is in the header.

Blogged by Brad on 1/8/2006 @ 1:33pm PT...
Election Reform Sunday Double-Header
Mark Crispin Miller & Brad, Back-to-Back on Air America Pheonix...
Mark Crispin Miller and I -- he of Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the
2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them)

"Election Reform Sunday Double-Header"
(25 comments so far...)

For Comparison,this is what it was and if you click on the link, it is what it is now.
Rovian in nature, Bush in style. USA Patriot Act in restricting Free Speech.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002251.htm

This information was being classified as disinformation. Maria
said it is not. She is a former New York Police Officer.

Any statements that are in brackets are Maria and my opinion

COMMENT #1 [link]
...Ricky said on 1/8/2006 @ 1:54pm PT...
{ed note: Comment deleted. Pure misinformation. Knock it off, Ricky.}

COMMENT #2 [link]
...Ghostwriter said on 1/8/2006 @ 1:55pm PT.

:) Hi, I met Jeff Fisher today in San Francisco in an emergency room. He
has the flu and he seemed to be very feverish. I have been following this
story for a long time.

There is information on a web-site in the Bay Area that might interest
you. Go to Tribe.net and then tribes and search for Jeff Fisher.

I got an email with the link but I am not at home right now.

I am a member of the Green Party. I like this guy and I think you should
be following the story with more interest. I have found a lot of new
information in yahoo groups.

Thanks,
Mary Jane

Go California Bears
UC Berkley

{This has been verified that he was in
San Francisco that day, he was also seen at St. Francis Hospital that day.
Maria has been unable to get anymore information from them.}

COMMENT #3 [link]
...barryg said on 1/8/2006 @ 2:41pm PT...

Ricky the only thing I see dieing is the support for the GOP and the
goon squads hanging around the whitehouse. It was bad enough when
Governors did not want the president to campaign for them now
they will not even want thim in their state.

COMMENT #4 [link]
...Brad said on 1/8/2006 @ 2:57pm PT...

Mary Jane - Jeff Fisher's story seems to be little more than
disinformation spread by folk related to the LaRouche folks. I'd
recommend avoiding that story, like the plague personally. I don't think
Jeff has purposely spread disinfo, but is likely the victim thereof. You
can do a search for "Jeff Fisher" here on BRAD BLOG to read some of my
early reporting on his story when it first emerged just after the Nov 4,
2005 election.

COMMENT #5 [link]
...Shannon Williford said on 1/8/2006 @ 3:06pm PT...

I've read Miller's book (got an autographed copy for xmas...), and it is
strong. Y'all all need to read it.

COMMENT #6 [link]
...Tom Lowenstein said on 1/8/2006 @ 3:22pm PT.

Its not disinformation.

Go to
http://tribes.tribe.net/democraticsocialists/thread/9943ad68-1d81-4b7b-bf4d-deeafbf66e0f#c09723b5-fcc3-48ae-8930-a231cdb3cb1d

The information makes sense and explains a lot. I bet he knows more
than this. The FBI must have scared him. Read the article. I would have
been scared. I got an email from some guy in Hayward about him. He
has become some kind of champion for civil rights in the black community.

COMMENT #7 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/8/2006 @ 4:25pm PT...

Tom:

The Jeff Fisher story is disinformation.

I know its got interesting tidbits, but it is interlaced with so much fake
information involving child rapists its not funny.

I know that Mel Sembler really is connected to the mafia and involved
in some shady things, but come on the FBI stalked Jeff Fisher
everywhere and threatened him!??

The FBI doesn't do that. If that ever really happened, and some
reporter can prove it than those people who harassed him weren't FBI.
And they were probably harassing him not just because they were
whackjob type people, but because Jeff sounded crazy.

The schools out there who hacked "elections" are possible but there
has never been any proof that it happened. And oh I forgot, the real
money-trail for election fraud has since been found and in Ohio it was
connected to Thomas Noe. And most likely the real money trail is tied to
Greenberg Traurig, a lawfirm that is hooked into the mob and wouldn't
waste time hiring school students as hackers.

Doug

{What is interesting here is that Doug E. changes his tone about
Jeff Fisher by sending him an email telling him he believes him.
Maria was able to at able to attain this information from an
intercepted email from Doug to Jeff,

Its nice to have friends who work in Mclean, Virginia.
Yes, the Central Intelligence Agency.}

COMMENT #8 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/8/2006 @ 4:30pm PT...

PS:

For anyone who wants to read that story its right here.

Jeff Fisher story

If you're curious at all its something to look into, and if you know
clint curtis personally you can probably find out if he really sent any
emails. Curtis's emails would prove right away how much of it was
real or not.

Doug E

COMMENT #9 [link]
...Ghostwriter said on 1/8/2006 @ 4:54pm PT.

It must be something to stop the truth from coming out. The GOP is
crazy enough to do things under our noses. Why would a man give up his
own liberties for no money, because he knew the truth and that it must
prevail. I got an email from a Curtis Garner from Hayward that says it all.
I hope that Doug E. finds God and realizes that his actions are truly
unpatriotic and undemocratic.

Mary Jane

COMMENT #10 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/8/2006 @ 5:04pm PT.

Ghost Writer

Hope *I* find god?!??? No offense but you sound like a typical
NEOCON.
You seem to think the whole world revolves around you.

Newsflash: The Jeff Fisher story was most likely *PLANTED* to
prevent people from knowing the truth and nobody wants to
investigate it for that reason!

By the way the FBI, Federal Office I have talked to them before
and they have never been involved in any "Florida" fraud
investigation. They took tips from someone and that is it, I even
know someone who works in Florida. The FBI is who nailed
Tom Noe and sent him to jail for money laundering, money
laundered into Ohio campaign coffers all over the place. Why
would the FBI randomly harass citizens who claimed to have
evidence of crimes? Unless they were just impersonators like the Ohio
Homeland security lockdown in Warren County, Level 10 terror alert.

Doug E.

{Again Doug's professional remarks are proven wrong when Maria
had her friends in Virginia contact the FBI and verify that
Jeff Fisher and Al Rogers did meet with them in November of 2004.}

COMMENT #11 [link]
...bvac said on 1/8/2006 @ 6:39pm PT...

Ok, this is the same Jeff Fisher that appeared at Conyer's election
irregularities hearing and had to be shouted down by the
congressmen? He sounded downright paranoid at the time. Has he
ever offered ANY information beyond the type of ranting he's
become known for? His web-site has been scrubbed and the archive
cache doesn't show anything. A quick search doesn't show any
connections to larouche, but there were several others in attendance
representing him. Asa Gordon offered a strategy for turning over
the election in Ohio based on the number of people disenfranchised
which caught Conyers' ear. It's fascinating to see the different election
reform movements at work and tapestry of disinformation that
threatens them. Utterly fascinating.

COMMENT #12 [link]
...Robert Lockwood Mills said on 1/9/2006 @ 5:54am PT...

On Nov. 7, 2004, the day before the Conyers hearings in D.C.,
Common Cause held a hearing at which Steny Hoyer, Bob Ney, Prof.
David Dill,Nevada Secretary of State Dean Heller, and others
were present. I went to it.

As I was leaving to catch my train home from Union Station, I ran
into Jeff Fisher in the lobby outside the hearing room. He flattered me
by asking, "Are you THE Robert Lockwood Mills?" I said, "I don't
think so, but I didn't realize there was another one." He then told me
about how he had provided John Conyers with iron-clad proof of
fraud in Florida, which turned out to be the business about the kida
at the military-style school being trained to rig election machines.
He said that even his wife didn't believe him, but he was desperate
to tell his story and had traveled from Florida at his own expense
to do so. Since I was a writer, how did he know that, since we'd
never met before?, could I help him? Very odd.

{Mr. Fishers plane ticket was paid for by a friend from North Carolina.
Mr. Fisher told me about this man and how he would pay him back for
his good deed}.

He had been running for Congress from South Florida, so I didn't
Dismiss him out of hand as a kook. Plus, I had just returned
from Florida where I had seen actual vote flipping. We exchanged
e-mail addresses and phone numbers.

Nothing has developed in the last 14 months, so I'm skeptical that
Jeff Fisher actually gave John Conyers anything concrete about the
election. Don't know where Jeff is at this point. The idea that he was
an unwitting pawn in a disinformation plot makes sense to me, though.
Great Rovian-style trick; if you're cheating, create a situation where
someone accuses you of cheating according to an implausible scenario,
then debunk the scenario and ascribe the whole thing to
"conspiracy theorists."

COMMENT #13 [link]
...Tom Lowenstein said on 1/9/2006 @ 1:50pm PT.

I can't believe the misinformation that the Neocons are doing regarding
Jeff Fisher. Contact Al Rogers in Florida. He went with him to the FBI
the first time. Jeff revealed some information but not all because Al's
life was in danger also. Jeff Fisher wanted no harm to anyone. As for
Doug E., I can only assume that he is really the bad guy who wants to
hide the truth about the 2004 election. I got more information on Jeff
Fisher in yahoo web groups. I am glad that people can still tell us the
truth there. I am going to post information I received from Curtis Garner
on Jeff Fisher. Ok, lets see them debunk what they are telling us. I really
hope that Brad starts realizing that Mr. Fisher knew so much that it must
have been overwhelming.

What follows are emails that Tom Lowenstein posted

Received this today:
royromes@yahoo.com

{This story has been verified that it did take place}

I met Mr. Fisher last week in Oakland. He was stopping
another brother from beating up another brother. He actually kicked
a gun out of the brothers hand. He did not run away like most white
folk do. He stayed and helped the brother. Never in my life had I ever
met live a white person in the hood who was blacker inside than me.
I now have and am proud to know this man.

I play on the net and want this information about this dude spread
around California and our country, (this guy is like MLK). I also want
some information on a Tracey Dorsey from West Palm Beach, Florida.
The information on last years election is true and Mr. Fisher can take
down the boys in D.C.

My mama thinks he will probably get killed like MLK and Malcolm X so
lets spread the message fast to save our ass and maybe his. I want
this kind of man to support and work for my brothers and sisters.

Lets make it happen. Lets pray and protect this man and what he
did for us.

He has seen the Promised Land and this time we the people deserve to
see it and feel it too.

Roy Romes
Oakland

Another posting in Yahoo web groups

{Another true event that the NEOCONS do not want the black and white
communities to know about. They will go to any length to discredit
any fine Liberal American who does good deeds for humane purposes}

Its time to talk about getting a brother in the White House.I play
around on the net and search for cool topics on BBS's and the word
is that Al Sharpton has been meeting with Patrick Kennedy to consider
a 2008 run for the White House. This ticket would reveal racism and
poverty in our country that would get media attention like Katrina did.

Now that is Shock and Awe!!!

To get this to happen people on the net,(moderators)and in D.C. all of
you must stop hiding the truth about the greed and ignorance in our
own party.(Democratic) The Green Party has it together. Take notice
to this.

"Fool me once, shame on you" Fool me twice, shame On me".

Tell Kerry to drop out now. He did nothing right in 2004.
He sold us out.
Did he vote for the war?
Did he vote for the Patriot Act?
Did he call for a recount in Ohio?
Did he listen to informants who had evidence?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a Democrat.

What opened my eyes to the truth only happened in the past month, so
maybe you have the same excuse. After you read my email, I hope you
didn't live the same life as I did. If you did,then get your act together.

I met a Democrat in December that I think is an angel in the making. I
told my mama about this man and what he has done for me alone has her
going to church everyday thanking God for letting this man be exiled to
the Bay Area. My mama is right and our pastor has begun a crusade for
this man to get his message of saving the black community at any cost.

In the subject line is three names listed, these men will Give America a
real chance because they are different from the mainstream clergyman,
politician and activist. I now want to tell you about myself.

I'm 25 yrs old, have an MBA, Democrat, and Black and live in Hayward,
California. I also got hooked on cocaine and martinis in college
Seven years ago. I went to a very prestigious school in New England.
Five years later I was out of school and thinking I could take the world
by the(B&lls). Look out Wall Street, I was going to make a bundle
and live the good life. The market was tanking and I was still getting tanked.

College taught me some things that should not be allowed. I failed in
New York City, I went to Chicago and did worse than the White Sox's
and off to L. A. Well that is no place to make it when you have a drug
problem. Everybody uses drugs there. My parents rescued me but I
failed them too, They brought me back to San Francisco but I went to
UC Berkley to party and protest the Bush Administration for all my problems.

I was a mess and all the rich white and oriental kids didn't care about
what was happening in Oakland. They only cared about making money
but putting on a front by looking like hippies. It is pure Bull. Blacks
know Bull-Sh-T when they are confronted with it.

That is why we are not going to stand by in 2008 for the same lies from
our own party. We know Bush lies, its time to expose the lies the Dems
do.

Well I was wrong about some Democrats; I found out that these three men
were different and deserved respect, honor and the chance to spread the
word of MLK, Malcolm X and Robert Kennedy. Yes they are dead.

The message they taught America is alive in the black community.These three
men, Sharpton, Kennedy and Fisher can revive America and make us whole again.
Its time to elevate our nation and regain our dignity and respect as a
real democracy for all the people.

Last month I was about to commit suicide , yet for some reason I
listened to my mama and went to Trinity Church on Bancroft Street in
Berkley instead looking for help one last time. I am glad I went
because there is where I met a homeless federal politician from
Florida that was wise and had a soul of an angel. His actions saved
me. He offered me food (Big Deal), he offered me knowledge (Big Deal),
he offered me hope (That was a Big Deal), and I needed that. On any
other day I would have walked away and said NO and then I would
have gone to the Golden Gate in S. F. and got high and jumped. I was
that desperate and lost.

I am glad that I listened to my mama because I got a helping hand
that has changed my life and I am spreading the word that this man
can help all the brothers across the country. I have done a lot of
research and this man is real, honest and a true humanitarian. I will
send links of information on this man so you can read for yourself
why an angel in Berkley can save our nation by uniting with
Al Sharpton and Patrick Kennedy.

Its 2006 and I am clean for over a month. Thank you God (people on the
net have to understand that God can be part of our life without being
part of politics) (The black community accepts God but they knowwhen
it needs to be separate from the state) so chill, liberals.

The Republicans love to divide us on these issues. I want the party
to understand why we keep losing. I want the corruption, lies and
cover-ups to stop. I want an open and honest government. Perfection
of our leaders is impossible.

That should be a message that Democrats can tell Republicans. All we
have to tell them is that Democrats obey the law of the land. Men and
women make mistakes and we all know this. What our leaders must not
do is break their oath of protecting the law.

Both sides do it. Our government loves to delay any good things. The
last good thing was the Civil Rights Act which died when
Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were killed.

I have met Mr. Fisher four times since that day at Trinity Church.
Getting him to talk is like pulling teeth. He is quite reserved and
seems to holding back because he appears in my eyes to be
protecting someone who means a lot to him.

I believe that he is in love with someone who wants him to
not reenter the political arena. I hope that is not the case, he has
tremendous potential to be a driving force for mankind and
improving the horrendous living conditions that our brothers have
had to endure in urban America.

I can tell you he said he has one friend who helped him that means
everything to him when his family and many others decided that his
passion for justice was not necessary because it challenged the
powers that keep everything hidden from the populace. It must be a
woman because he was crying when he talked about that friend,
that person must be very special,

I am glad that they helped him. I hope they will continue helping him.
He appears to be alone at the present moment. I remember my father
Crying when my mama was diagnosed with cancer, he cried all the time.
My father loves my mama, that is why I think he must have a very
special love in his life.

My mama thinks the same and she told me that it is important to
tell everyone my story and let them know that there are angels in
America who want to help with open hands. I think that these three men
can offer our country those open hands. Trinity means a lot and this
must be a sign to get our act together so the dreams, words and actions
of MLK, Malcolm X and Robert Kennedy were not in vain.

I am including links to these three men so spread the word and Lets
Unite Democrats Now and bring back dignity and honest to the greatest
country that ever existed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21903-2004Jul28.html

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:4woqeje6WugJ:image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2003/01/14/sharptonX.jpg

http://www.patrickkennedy.house.gov/
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.patrickkennedy2002.com/images/foto_pk.jpg&imgrefurl=http://necdc.browndemocrats.org/info/nedemsspeakers/&h=207&w=156&sz=6&tbnid=jrEOcN4S9YoJ:&tbnh=100&tbnw=75&hl=en&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpatrick%2BKennedy%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001344.htm#65

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001344.htm#66

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002183.htm#41
{This link above is very interesting, it provides insight into Jeff Fishers
character and his constant fight for Floridas citizens on protecting their
right to vote and be counted.}

http://electionfraud2004impeach.blogspot.com/2005/12/att-maxine-waters-and-john-conyers.html
{What is interesting is that this blog has several links that are no longer working.}

http://web.archive.org/web/20040120191243/http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/dadnemo1.jpg

These are his children that he is protecting.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040120191243/http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/photo/Jamie&David.jpg

Yahoo group posting

{More Information that Jeff Fisher was able to reach our future, a college students mind. That must be scary to NEOCONS.}

My friends in L.A. told me about this cool cat at Berkley, (I'm from
Santa Barbara and go to school at UCSF) who tried to take on the
government last year. The Bush government has already taken away
our rights so this is nothing new.

Well, I thought that until my brothers and I did some real research on
this guy. Holy Sh-t, this guy did the government over and he is a force
to be respected.

I am spreading the word to a whole lot of people and they will spread
the word too. The information we have on Fisher is cool and it really
rocks. Power to the People.

Maybe this guy should be in Washington D.C. helping the Dean people,
the Kennedy people, the Wellstone people and my brothers all want him
to help the Sharpton people. We found out that he had two black women
who ran his operation against the will of his wife and the people,
(Democrats) of West Palm Beach. That is a cool thing to do.

He fought for our rights last year and we also found out that he worked
as a protester in 1966 and 1967 in Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia for
Martin Luther King Jr. This was verified by some friends who have a
close and quiet contact with the late Ron Brown's family.

For more information join 2004_Presidential_Election@yahoogroups.com
and then read message # 26041,26048,26058,26067,26071,26082 I also
sent this information to the DNC to see if they will act on this information
or if they are really what our worst fears could be, cowards to the American
Democratic Voter. I pray they be not.

{The yahoo group above is no longer in existence.}

The following is information on what Mr. Fisher did for the voters
and his support and plans he had for us. I wouldn't blame him for not
ever running again for public office but it would be nice to see him
working for the party promoting Progressive issues and defending our
voting rights.

E-mail Congresswoman
Maxine Waters at mike.murase@mail.house.gov
Her phone # is (323) 757-8900

E-mail Congressman John Conyers at jerry.omalley@mail.house.gov
or karen.morgan@mail.house.gov
His phone # is (313) 961-5670 or (734) 285-5624

Tell them that there is a lot of information that is new in
several Yahoo Web groups regarding Jeff Fisher and information
that he was not able to reveal to the Committee last December.

COMMENT #14 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/10/2006 @ 12:42am PT...

I've read the whole thing and I wish you could summarize it in just one
paragraph.

The DNC won't do a damn thing, so if there was proof or something and this guy brought it there, it was probably dismissed.

After witnessing the whole hacking demonstration in Florida using
banned-interpreter code, I am more curious than ever about this
story....I shall look into some items and contact VoteTrustUSA if I find
anything concrete.

Doug E.

COMMENT #15 [link]
...Tony Levy said on 1/10/2006 @ 5:06pm PT...

:) I am posting information from emails that show that Mr. Fisher is the
real McCoy. I am going to go through all my emails and start posting
them to Democratic Underground and BradBlog. This time America
will not be silenced.

Thanks Vicki, I am forwarding your message so everyone else can read it.
I have sent this email to Palm Beach County Democrats and they
seem to ignore any true action. Florida doesn't really want to put
Democrats in office that is true to all the voters. The information on
Sen. Bill Nelson is not what we want from our own party, how could
he have turned down election information in September of 2004 in
Martin County when it was presented to him. Did he not take an oath
to protect the voters?

Why did all the emails my wife and I have sent to the Palm Beach Democratic
Executive Committee has been ignored. We went to their web-site and posted
emails. I am asking for a response because I am going to send this blog
to every group I belong to and am asking for everyone to send this message
out to their friends who want the next elections to be fair and honest. How
many people must die because of the information that Jeff Fisher tried to get
to America and Congress last year.

Yes, my friends in Chicago have done research and discovered that people
have died due to his information that tied the election to Dr. Piotr
Blass, Sean Lennon, Clint Curtis and Karen Hughes. Yes that is new
information that has been leaked out of the justice department this
week. Bush is beginning to have his own people let the information out.
Rats run when the water gets to deep. The ship is sinking and the rats are
trying to save themselves. I will be posting more information on
Democratic Underground too.

The Truth is that the Democrats can not do business without the
Republicans and that it is an election year they will walk like roosters
but remember that in 2005 they did nothing to change the voting laws.
The Republicans can just sit back and watch and laugh at the voters for
believing that leaders such as Pelosi and Wexlar fight for us when the
truth is that they did nothing to stop George Bush from becoming
President on January 6th again.

Thank you Sen. Barbara Boxer for being the one Senator who stood up
to say no. Sen. Bill Nelson from Florida said yes. Democrats in both
houses should be ashamed.

You had the information since December and you did nothing.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE DEMOCRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE FIND A TRUE DEMOCRAT AND HE GETS
DESTROYED AND LEFT OUT IN THE COLD.
LETS GET THIS MAN "JEFF FISHER" WORKING FOR
THE DNC AND OUR LEADER, HOWARD DEAN.
WE NEED PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS NOW.

Vicky Davis wrote: Tony.... this is the means by which the radical
elements in the democratic party retain control. They set rules for
local party activities that dictate that they can only work on local
issues - not national. I got into the same situation in Idaho. I was going
to get involved with the democrat party because I was so disgusted with
the Republicans. I joined a local group... I was going to write articles
for their web-site. Before I could even write one article, I was told that I
could only write on issues local to my community - example given
(I swear to God this is the truth) - I could write an article about which
street the driveway for the new Walmart superstore emptied out on.

I was in shock... but I thought, well maybe the democrats in my town
are just inbred morons. So I joined another group out of Boise.... same thing.
I got into a discussion with a publisher in Colorado who was sponsoring
the web-site. He is the one who told me that it was the policy of the
democratic party to muzzle local groups... and allow the discussion of
national issues only by the national party apparatus.

Tony Levy wrote:
This information is not political. It is about an American who defended
your voting rights last year. Your attitude is why election problems
exist. Open your eyes and see what a true American did for us and how
our own government has covered up the truth. This message is being
sent to other groups so they can understand what is going on in
North Carolina and what information they are ignoring. To everyone
who receives this message pass the word on. The truth must not be
covered up.

Joyce McCloy wrote: Dear Tony:

Please take us off of your political mailings.
Our group is set up to discuss the developments in North Carolina.

Our members do not want political emails, they can subscribe to other
groups for that purpose.

This message board is solely for communicating about the verified
voting issues in North Carolina, not issues about impeachment etc.

Thanks.

Lets get Jeff Fisher who is in Berkley involved. We now have his direct
#. 510-843-6800 #778

Spread the word so everyone who believes its time for the truth to come
out to contact him. This is an impeachable offense. Conyers and Boxer
would then have two strikes on the President.

Just remember Mr. Fisher has been avoiding everyone because of the
FBI putting pressure on him. If you need further information regarding this
I will send you the emails that explain why this man was missing
over a year.

He is the 2004 Election Whistleblower and more important he has
the information that would have had Al Gore as the President in 2000.

I am sorry for the man who used foul language. I am going to send you
other information on Jeff Fisher because it was him he had the proof
that your election last year was rigged and the FBI made it hard on him.

Joyce McCloy

To the people in California: Berkley has a Florida hero (Sorry George)
that defended us (voters) last year and has been left out to the wolves.
Read about Jeff Fisher and spread the word to other Democrats and to
our Democrats in Congress. Its about time that they help this citizen who
defended all of us last year.

This message is being sent to Mike, Kindra, Geoff and a Palm Beach
voter. Our resources have gathered information that you all know
Jeff Fisher. We also know that you were friends of his. Please help spread
the word in your groups that he is alive but as of today Berkley has a lot
of Republicans who are infiltrating our life. They are coming from
Orange County.

Michelle Gabriel wrote:

Dear Dr.Homasey,

Our research has discovered that you traveled with Mr. Fisher to
Dearborn, MI in 2003 to an AAI Convention. We also learned that he
had written a Roadmap to Peace that was exceptional since it was
coming from a true Democrat that was looking for peace in the
Middle East. We also earned that it alienated many Jews against him.
If you have a copy of it could you send it via email or post it on the
Internet so people could read it. We believe that the Bush
administration learned of this through Congressman Wexlar's office
and that the Israeli's put additional pressure on Jeff Fisher following
the Election that led to his illness at George Washington Hospital
on December 16, 2004. He just appeared in Berkley about three weeks
ago. I hope that you can help this man. What we have learned is that he
would have been a great Congressman and what he should be doing is
working in Washington D.C. for the party or the state department as a
liaison bridging the gap between the U.S.and the Middle East.

{The Peace Plan has been found and linked.}

http://web.archive.org/web/20040610120547/walkingwithfisher.com/positionpaperpalestineisraelpeaceplan.htm{it only has two links not working.}

Tony Levy
Walnut Creek, Ca

Mike Smith wrote:

You could have had a better Congressman. Did you know that Mr. Fisher
was stuck in his home when the hurricane hit his home. He still got out
and helped his neighbors and saved a persons life by removing a piece
of wood from a child's head and not looking for the media to tell about it.
I got a call from a person who witnessed this.
Mark Foley was on TV handing out water. So did George. Big Deal

Ellyn Stevenson wrote:
You know how bad things are here when I tell you that Mark is not the
worst we have to deal with!
Good luck.
Ellyn

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 10:18 PM
To: Ellyn Stevenson
Subject:

I understand. Did you know that Jeff Fisher who ran against Mark Foley
did all this for everyone, not just his district or the state of Florida but for
our nation? Maybe you should tell people that this is what all of our
Congressmen should act like. Please keep in contact.

Ellyn Stevenson wrote:
Yes, but I use the group for members of my precinct. It is a small
neighborhood, and members are blocking the emails now because of what
you're sending. We are in a very Republican area and I am trying to keep
these folks interested and active on a very local level.

Thank you for understanding.

Ellyn Stevenson

From: chris hazelwood

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 13:10
To: People-v-Ohio-n-Florida@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [People-v-Ohio-n-Florida] URGENT - CSPAN to have
Jeff Fisher (Like in a few Minutes)

On C-Span at about (Time was a guess by Jeff Fisher) 11:30 AM
PAC TIME today (Thursday) is Jeff Fisher talking about Election
Fraud on C-SPAN (in front of Congress?) try to watch if you can.

I got a call from Jeff Fisher and he ask people to get the word out. He
was in a definite hurry, so It wasn't made clear if he's a speaker or if
he was a person in the audience who was asking questions of the congress
, but I think it's the later.

From what I could get from Jeff Fisher, he will be speaking near the
end of this event. I think it's on C-SPAN 1, but check C-SPAN 2 from
time to time in this next hour.

Mr. Fisher called me about 20 mins ago and was trying to get the word
out... It seems his Internet server is not working right, (is he being
blocked from his Freedom of Speech?) and so he had to call me and others
to get the word out.

Thanks to all.
- Chris

COMMENT #16 [link]
...Curtis Garner said on 1/11/2006 @ 9:31am PT...

I now understand the power on the Internet. My own email address has
been disabled and my information has been changed at mail.com I hope
that anyone who I emailed will get my new address. I know this happened
to Jeff Fisher and I will not let this man get stopped again.
My new email address is curtisgarnerhayward@yahoo.com

The cover-up of the 2004 election will not continue. The black community
will unite and protect this man because he has integrity that scares the
people who have sold us out.

{Interesting since Yahoo has been giving political web groups problem
the past two weeks.}

Curtis Garner

COMMENT #17 [link]
...Tom said on 1/12/2006 @ 1:20pm PT...

Ok you nay sayers

Tomorrow you can try to stop Jeff Fisher but he will be protected by
his brothers from Oakland, Los Angeles and San Francisco. We have
a following and he will get his message delivered. Its ordained this
weekend by the late Martin Luther King Jr. A child will lead us out of
bondage. That was more than 35 years ago. Mr. Fisher is 44 years old.
He is the child that MLK envisioned.

{Nothing can be more terrifying than bringing about a prophetic statement from the late MLK. That would scare any racist a.k.a. NEOCON.}

The message is posted below

To meet Jeff Fisher on Friday the 13th in San Francisco at 2 Stockton
at Market Codys Bookstore- Approx. 5:30 P.S.T. He will be talking
about the proof that he had to withhold on December 8th, 2004 with
President Jimmy Carter.

After the CSPAN broadcast on December 8th, 2004 where he has been
criticized by many individuals he openly admits that he was very scared
and nervous. The reason that nobody knew why his emotions were in
turmoil was because he had just received a blocked ID phone call that
told him that his companion would be in grave danger if he told the
committee too much. He has remained quiet because he wants to protect
this person at all costs. The person is safe now so he feels that the
time is right to expose the culprits.

He has told our pastor on the phone that he is bone tired of living in a
homeless shelter, but he says it was an important time to learn that
America has abandoned countless Americans at the stroke of a pen.
He also told us that it is time for a real change of leadership in America.

He says its time for America to elect a black man to represent us in the
White House. He says its not the color of any mans skin that makes him
a leader, its his soul. He feels that Al Sharpton and Patrick Kennedy
would make this country whole in spirit again.

When our pastor asked him what do you want?
He replied, All I want to do is help my friend who protected and
supported me when no one else would.

He also added, I would like to be able to work with the party on issues
that I have become experienced in, such as homelessness and the plight
of urban black America

On a final note he said that voting reform will only take place if
Democrats develop true strength and say No to the President and the
GOP on every issue.

He said that there are some that have attained that strength, they showed
that when they challenged the Electoral College on January 6th, 2005.
He said it was a shame to only see Barbara Boxer as the only Senator
to show such internal strength.

Call and thank her,

Barbara Boxer
(415)-393-0707 {This was the wrong number}
(415) 403-0100 {This is the correct number}
Fax (415)-393-0710 {This was the wrong number}
Fax (415) 956-6701 {This is the correct number}

COMMENT #18 [link]
...Doug Eldritch said on 1/14/2006 @ 8:47pm PT...

Al Rogers,

I have reviewed the allegations and now have a pressing interest
in this issue.....

Bottom line: Please see my message at your yahoo group immediately.

If the allegations are at all correct, and they seem partially correct
at least from who I've talked to, then its high time to stop sending out
useless emails and simply release the evidence.

Doug E.

COMMENT #19 [link]
...Maxine said on 1/15/2006 @ 12:29pm PT...

Secret Service-President Carter-Fisher working together.

January 13th 3 p.m. P.S.T.
Secret Service Agents assigned to President Carter met with Jeff Fisher
in San Francisco.

Fisher relayed pertinent information pertaining to the 2000 & 2004
general elections specifically to Florida and North Carolina. President
Carter will be viewing this info and keeping in contact with Mr Fisher.
The President and Secret Service have Mr. Fisher's Cell # and have
constant knowledge of his whereabouts.

Florida information 2000

Confirmation of pre election correspondence assuring the election
results for the November General Election of George W Bush over
Al Gore.

Evidence: email from Joe Klock to a prominent upper echelon
national campaign official connected to the Bush 2000 team

North Carolina

Evidence confirming hardware coding & specialized BIO"S that
could alter election results by affecting software in15 seconds
used by Sequoia, ES&S and Diebold.

Further Supporting evidence
E-mail from Sean Lennon in mid 2004 to West Coast IT CEO verifying
flawless results that were tested in Louisiana, Georgia, and California
training facilities.

Visit BradBlog.com and Democratic Underground.com for more updates
on the Jimmy Carter and Jeff Fisher meeting.

COMMENT #20 [link]
...Maxine said on 1/15/2006 @ 12:55pm PT...

Secret Service-President Jimmy Carter-Fisher working together.

January 13th 3 p.m. PST
Secret Service Agents assigned to President Carter met with Jeff Fisher
in San Francisco.

Fisher relayed pertinent information pertaining to the 2000 & 2004
General Elections specifically to Florida and North Carolina. President
Carter will be reviewing this information and keeping in contact with
Mr. Fisher.

The President and Secret Service have Mr Fisher's Cell # and have
constant knowledge of his whereabouts.

Florida information 2000

Confirmation of Pre-Election email regarding the election results in
the upcoming November General Election assuring George W Bush
defeating Al Gore.

Evidence: Email from Attorney Joseph Klock to a prominent, upper
echelon, national campaign official connected to the Bush 2000 team

North Carolina- Evidence confirming hardware coding & specialized
BIO'S that could alter election results by affecting software in15 seconds
used by Sequoia, ES&S and Diebold.

Further Supporting evidence- Email from Sean Lennon in mid 2004
to West Coast IT CEO verifying flawless results that were tested in
Louisiana, Georgia, and California training facilities.

Visit BradBlog.com and DemocraticUnderground.com for more updates
on the Jimmy Carter and Jeff Fisher meeting.

COMMENT #21 [link]
...Cecil W. said on 1/15/2006 @ 2:06pm PT...

Contact Boxer/Conyers/Kucinich/Rangel/Meeks/Franks/Kennedy

I have been following this and it has been verified that he did show up
at the bookstore and had his information passed on to the Secret
Service. Since this is the case, Its time to call Senator Boxer,
Congressman John Conyers, Congressman Dennis Kucinich,
Congessman Charles Rangel, Congressman Kendrick Meeks,
Congressman Barney Frank and Congressman Patrick Kennedy. T
hese Democrats must know about this transfer of vital information.

To reach them I am posting their phone numbers.

Start Calling them on Tuesday and every day for a week demanding
that they make this know to all Americans.

Tell them it is their duty to serve the Constitution and the American people.

Senator Boxer
San Francisco 415-403-0100 Los Angeles 213-894-5000
Sacramento 916-448-2787 San Diego 619-239-3884
Fresno 559-497-5109 San Bernardino 909-888-8525
Washington D.C. 202-224-3553

Congressman John Conyers, Jr.
Washington D.C. 202-225-5126
Detroit 313-961-5670

Congressman Dennis Kucinich
Lakewood 216-228-8850
Parma 440-845-2707
Washington D.C. 202-225-5871

Congressman Charles Rangel
Washington D.C. 202-225-4365
New York City 212-663-3900

Congressman Kendrick Meeks
Washington D.C. 202-225-4506
Miami Gardens 305-690-5905
Pembroke Pines 954-450-6762

Congressman Barney Frank
Washington D.C. 202-225-5931
Newton 617-332-3920
New Bedford 508-999-6462
Taunton 508-822-4796

Congressman Patrick Kennedy
Washington D.C. 202-225-4911
Pawtucket 401-729-5600

COMMENT #22 [link]
...Karen Anne said on 1/15/2006 @ 2:19pm PT...

Does anyone have a recent photo of Jeff Fisher? I live in San Francisco
and would like to know what he looks like.

I want to know who is the special love he is protecting. Is he cute.
I know he is divorced. Wow, if a guy did this for me I would want
to marry him. I don't care if he is homeless. This man is devoted
to his nation and to some very special person he must care about
to the endth degree. I think that is very sexy.

Karen Anne

{Fan mail -Maria said that out of twenty-five blogs, one looking for booty is nothing out of the unusual, especially in San Francisco.}

COMMENT #23 [link]
...Virginia Metze said on 1/15/2006 @ 5:55pm PT...

http://www.jefffisher.com/ has only one word on it -- Elaine
Don't know what this means if anything

{Maria is investigating this.}

COMMENT #24 [link]
...Bev Harris (the real Bev Harris) said on 1/15/2006 @ 8:54pm PT...

One of the posts above is confusing and misleading. It mixes a private
e-mail from me to a "Curtis Garners" with the author's own comments.

For the record, Black Box Voting has never been into the Jeff Fisher
story, I have not heard anything yet to indicate it is plausible.

The ONLY actual quote from me from the huge post above is this:

"There are many election reform organizations. Have you contacted
John Gideon of VotersUnite.org or Brad Friedman of bradblog.com?

Let me know how they respond to your tips. Thanks!"

It is in response to this private email from Curtis Garner, who was
sending emails around implying that I was looking for Jeff Fisher
information:

To Bev Harris, I am ashamed of you. Are you related to Katherine Harris?
You and the rest of the establishment are now banking on election
problems. You ask for money! Did Jeff Fisher ask for money when he
exposed the truth last year? NO! He doesn't even know about me posting
information on him. I told you he has become very quiet. Its time to
Wake Up America to the Truth. I am going to let the entire world know
that you have taken the position of hiding the truth. I am awaiting your
reply.

-----------------

Not wanting to be rude, I simply thanked him for the information and
suggested he take them elsewhere.

I also notice in the post above that the author includes various comments
by people completely unrelated to me and then sticks links to Black Box Voting
pages under them.

This does seem like disinformation tactics.

{Ms. Harris is good at election issues yet she needs to learn what misinformation
is. Maybe a lesson on understanding 9/11 and the lies from Condoleezza Rice to
the United Nation might give her a realunderstanding of what tactics are used
in the intelligence field.}

Bev Harris

COMMENT #25 [link]
...Raymond said on 1/17/2006 @ 1:09pm PT...

Our groups along with me know who Mr. Fisher is. We also know that he is in contact
with people like John Conyers legal staff.

Maria has been informed by the agency that Ted Kalo from the House Democratic
Judiciary Committee and Carol Patton, Lead Counsel for Congressman John Conyers Jr.
are investigating Mr. Fisher's information.

Our national investigative group has been watching him since his short time in
Binghamton, NY last September, when he was helping the Anti-War Group, the
St. Patrick Four.

Mr. Fisher was reported to have given key Constitutional questions to
the defendants to beat the conspiracy charges that the U.S. Government
was attempting to indict them on.

This was the charge that they were found innocent on.

The group was found guilty on misdemeanor charges only.

This was reported to Maria again by our friends in Virginia.

We have monitored his phone calls and whereabouts from Binghamton
to New York City to Philadelphia to San Diego to San Francisco.
The government must understand we are watching them too.

Mr. Fisher has been observed living in homeless shelters and hotels
in these cities. Somebody helped him at times and left him at times
to fend for himself.

We all know he is working hard to expose the truth. All of us also know
that he is in danger of being harmed. Everybody should respect
and admire a man who protects others and still doesn't sell himself to the
corporate world.

One of our operatives saw him in Sausalito yesterday on Martin Luther
King, Jr. birthday with a beautiful black woman. They were talking
and eating lunch overlooking the ocean. Is this the mysterious love?
We believe that he is moving on to protect someone else.

We do know that he is protecting more than a dozen people from being
put in harms way. We have not been able to intercept his conversations
with the Secret Service, however we have intercepted one of his calls
to an individual in Ohio and learned that the list he wants to have Carter
work on contains thirty names.

Raymond

{This information posted has Maria worried because her instincts
tell her that Jeff Fisher appears to being followed by the
National Security Agency.}

{For our security reasons and for Mr. Fishers we are going to
blog this entire letter.}

Identity theft, Fraud, and worldwide Racketeering.
by Jeff Fisher Wednesday November 22, 2006 at 05:40 AM
jefffishervsgeorgebush2@gmail.com 770-715-2171 PO Box 7116 Atlanta Georgia 30357

The Truth Shall Prevail for Christ always Protects Me Reposted due to error in Title, email address and zipcode. I am very tired trying to save America from the computer room where my father lives in Buckhead, Atlanta. I just wish he would wake up and find out I have been here for almost two days waiting for him so I can tell him I love him.

To: managers@msn.com,
info@europol.europa.eu,
International Courts pio@icc-cpi.int,
US Marshals us.marshals@usdoj.gov,
Russian News Agency info@primenewsonline.com,
World Metro News World's Largest Newspaper info@metro.lu
bcc
xxxFBI@msn.com,changed for security issue
cloak.dagger@gmail.com,
xxxINS@gmail.com,changed for security issue
Al James Jack Lancaster jacklancaster@sbcglobal.net>,
Attorney Doug Wallace d.a.wallace@sbcglobal.net,
Iran Daily News iran-daily@iran-daily.com,
J.R.I. [Judicial Reform Investigations] justice@judicialjustice.us,
J. Richard Niemela ricniemela@earthlink.net,
Al-Jazeerah.info Dr. El-Najjar editor@aljazeerah.info,
Foppe Dykstra foppe.dykstra@yahoo.com,
Freedom Law School info@livefreenow.org,
tom flocco tomflocco@cs.com,
The future first lady soulfulchemistry@yahoo.fr,
Ted Pike tedpike@truthtellers.org,
The Exposé investigativeexpose@hotmail.com,
Dr. James Zogby Thank you for letting me present my peace plan at AAI in 2003 with Dr. Casey Homasey in Dearborn Michigan Dennis Kucinich wasn't there but he has read it and said it would would work jzogby@aaiusa.org,
Sallie sallie441@fuse.net,
dot@thepeacealliance.org,
John Caylor I am sorry they (AIPAC and the Mossad) tortured you worse than me editor@insider-magazine.com,
waynemadsendc@hotmail.com,
Wayne this is a link to one of the photos of the torture.

http://www.binghamtonpmc.org/media/all/display/1470

I gave Election fraud evidence, several times, to Congressman John Conyers and he doesn't give a rats turd about the truth. He only cares if it helps get Democrats elected. He doesn't really want to end the war and he sure doesn't care for the Arab American Communities. I will challenge him on Television on all my charges against him. John Conyers should be thrown out of Congress for not doing anything about this. I was a Democrat and he endorsed me over Foley. How much money did Conyers get to cover-up 9-11 and the 2000,2002,2004 and 2006 Election Thefts. How many Republicans lost races that they shouldn't have. I can't see how Negron could have lost in Florida's District 16. Mahoney and Jennings from the 13th each knew about me and would not help. There needs to be an entire revote to ensure an accurate count. Pelosi knows the truth too and she did nothing either. Thank God Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Barbra Lee, Patrick Kennedy, Sen. Edward Kennedy and Cynthia McKinney did try to help. I would like to know who else I talked to all summer in Washington D.C. helped me in uncovering this horrific crime. Ron Klein from Boca Raton and Robert Wexler did nothing because they have the Jewish vote locked up and they love to take money from AIPAC and I have seen both of them talking with Mossad agents. I will testify to that. They all know about Growing Together and Bay Point School and they still covered it up. I want the entire world to know that these two Democrats from Florida would sell any American Dream away if it were to benefit the State of Israel. This is America, Not Israel. We sing God Bless America and the Star Spangled Banner, not Hatifka.

This is about Zionism not Judiasm. Write to Barry Chamish and he will explain that. barrycha@gmail.com
votefraud. org votefraud@fuse.net,Good Day Nick
leoguy7@hotmail.com Hello Hasan I am down the street from you. Can I come over later
date Nov 22, 2006 6:33 AM
subject Identity theft, Fraud, and worldwide Racketeering.
mailed-by gmail.com

To the Managers of MSN Business and Finance,

What we are talking about here is a massive crime relating to identity theft.

I have in possession as well as on CD, federal evidence of election fraud, fraudulent payments, and stealing of social security numbers that need to be witnessed in court.

While in the process of having these documents, I have myself now been repeatedly the victim of identity theft and related crime.

International forces, working closely with the Israelis but also the British, are intercepting our physical phone calls and illegally stealing our identities for the purpose of massive theft. They are impersonating people now around the clock, most of the time from different geographical areas and overseas.

It is in fact being done in a similar manner to how they did the election tampering to start with, and as the following facts for your review demonstrate.

http://www.mediamax.com/fullsteam/Hosted/msg_%2B14042914771_19_Oct_2006_18_35_24.wma

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room47/1355954/msg_%2B14042914771_19_Oct_2006_18_35_24.mp3

http://breachalerts.trustedid.com/?m=200610

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/epaper/2006/10/11/a1d_breach_1011.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSMICHNIK.htm

http://worldvtruth.tripod.com/browardfelonslist.htm

I would like to be personally interviewed in regards to identity theft and phone calls being intercepted, and the number you can reach me at is 770-715-2171

I am counting on those calls not also being blocked by these same forces, as what we have here is a serious security concern. I will be willing to also do a live interview or interview over a teleprompter, if for some reason phone calls to my cellular appear to be intercepted.

This is definitely something that must be dealt with, and the court case and other information is below for review.

http://worldvtruth.tripod.com/ricojeffjayfisher.vs.joseph.doc
"1)Whereas, I Jeffrey J. Fisher witnessed on my own account categorical abuse administered on the children of Baypoint Schools, by one Joseph Klock and his municipalities and where-as the court in question did nothing to abstain from this abuse in the year of 2004 to which I administer this criminal complaint.

I witnessed from firsthand account, beginning in July 2004 if not before, Sean S. Lennon discussing the abuse done to these children in more than two different schools run by the Drug Free American Foundation which it was renamed to in 1998. Whereas previously the organization in question was called Straights Inc., and was categorically involved in abuse of teenagers and parents for one decade and passing.

On account of this, Sean S. Lennon showed me wherefore, these students being taught programming classes by one Doctor Cole, and his assistants, including Doctor Piotr Blass. Whereas this programming was being used to initiate election fraud projects in the year 1998, 1999 in respect to the identifiable pattern of theft called Choicepoint software which was conclusively removing voters from the rolls and disenfranchising those voters on this account.

Whereas, Joseph Klock and Doctor Cole allowed Sandra Mortham and state municipalities to employ Choicepoint software into their drug program, and remove voters from the rolls as well as machine rolls. Whereas, Sean S. Lennon showed to me in October of 2004 that this program was also being administered into the voting machines as manufactured by Sequoia Inc., Diebold Inc. in which I would show you for the record these tallies do not match and are fraudulent. Hither fore, I present this information into the court record that the analysis of these voting machines shows the votes being removed and blacklisted under the PRE-LAT examinations. In which, such examinations show the error "Card Stuck Insertion" and deny, blacklist, remove votes from these voting machines thus nullifying the person's right to vote.

In action, I request for the court to open this motion for review. Wherefore, I have witnessed first hand the man known as Joseph Klock, openly lie and deny the fact he abused and brainwashed these kids in Baypoint Schools. By the records I have in possession, I respectfully request under RICO Law 18 U.S.C of 1964 that Joseph Klock be subpoenaed to accept/deny the charges I am placing against him.

Wherefore, I request the court consideration of the following facts to which I will add into the record to clarify. That in July of 2004, Sean S. Lennon first approached me regarding the abuse taking place at Key College and Baypoint Schools.

Wherefore the evidence in this record shows, and continues to outline I request a motion to place all evidence into the court for review and a summons must be sent to Sean S. Lennon to agree to testify in court. Whereas, Sean S. Lennon discussed the fact that at least one student had filed charges, or left the program and still another may have died. Whereas, Sean S. Lennon further informed me with evidence that other training classes were happening in California, Ohio, and to specific overseas. Whereas, his information directly taken from computers in Joseph Klock's office show a pattern of clear, and consistent, racketeering criminal activity that needs to be open to review.

Under RICO Law 18 U.S.C of 1964, I request an open motion to proceed to the discovery phase of action in relationship to this trial. What I will submit is my testimony for the record, so further review of evidence and material may be presented according to the events as transpired.

I was made aware and with the following evidence in July of 2004, that Sean S. Lennon was engaged in tampering with physical elections in multiple locations and municipalities.

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ELECTIONPROJECT.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/SandraMortham.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/lemmeconnectionblass.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/YOMKIPPUR.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty2.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty3.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty4.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty5.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty6.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty7.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty8.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty9.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty10.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSFIFTHPROGRAM.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/EVIDENCE.htm

http://thestraights.com/articles/bradbury-suit.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/MORTHAMES&S.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSMICHNIK.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%284%29.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%286%29.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSSEANAGREES.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/index_ns.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/straight_and_the_judges_and_cops.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/drugpolicy.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/florida-dcf-05-31-02.txt

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/sembler-italian-kelebekler.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/sembler-senate-intro.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/archieve1.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/straight-advisory-board.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ABUSEBAYPOINT.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ABUSEBAYPOINT1.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baypointschool.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/indexenglish.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/story1a092900.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/Straight%20Incorporated%20-%20Capitalizing%20on%20Communism.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file(7).html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/training.htm "

2) This continued and sustained for several months, where-by Piotr Blass instructed me to keep quiet about it and help get his son released from the abusive mind-control cults being administered by Drug Free America.

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ABUSEBAYPOINT.htm

http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=SEANLENNONEXPOSE.htm
"ADDITIONAL INFORMATION UPDATED FOR THE FBI
(KEY INFORMATION WITHHELD FROM WEBPAGE)
POSTED IN BLUE (last paragraph) )

UPDATED INFORMATION REGARDING NADER SPOKESMAN 11/17/04

Ralph Nader came to me and offered his selfless assistance in protecting every American's right to have a fair election. Mr. Nader is the patriot who has decided that partisan loyalty is unacceptable in situations such as rigged election.

I voted for and supported John Kerry, however he is surrounded by people who have kept him from receiving the message that he, as well as every voter in America, was cheated. I have been in contact with the Democratic National Committee's legal staff since November 12th. I have received thousands of emails asking why are they delaying to contact Senator Kerry regarding the information that would change the outcome of the November 2, 2004 election?

Americans are SCREAMING for John Kerry to report to duty!

To John Kerry: the nation and the Constitution are sinking fast! Save the ship (United States), its crew (American citizens) and its manifest (the U.S . Constitution) before its to late!!

To Ralph Nader,
Re: xxxxxx - (the Sender) see rense.com article
"Cover-Up of 2000 and 2004 Florida Vote Continues"
(Press release VoteFraud.org , and Blackboxvoting.org) 11-1-04
For more statistical info, visit http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com and click on the link labeled "Surprising Florida Presidential Election Results". The data reveals that the election results are inverted/cross-party voting.
On July 27, 2004 xxxxxx showed me an email dating from 1999 which stated that a successful run of posting felons' names to electronic voting went without any problem and leaving no audit trail. Mr. xxxxx also showed me information that it was done during the 2002 Florida Gubernatorial Democratic Primary as well. (Visit http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com and click on link labeled "Thank you Michael Moore from Jeff Fisher and Thom Hartmann"). He then told me that due to this success and the improvement of programming that it would probably be used in the General Election on November 2, 2004. This was relayed to me on July 27, 2004 in the mid afternoon in a parking lot leading from a McDonald's to the local county library in the Kendall area of Dade County. He also mentioned to me that he was living in fear. He believed his family might be killed if they found out that he gave this information to anyone. I tried to get this information to John Kerry on many occasions through Charles Figley. All attempts were fruitless.
Additional information:
Regarding conversation with xxxxxxx
xxxx also told me that day (July 27, 2004) that hardware and software for voting systems such as Sequoia, ES&S and Diebold could be compromised via computer coding (source) that was perfected at Bay Point School(s) and other locations throughout the United States over the past few years. This was learned by the interception of inter office emails that were located within the computer network and hard drives. Mr. xxxxxx informed me that he was hired to secure their Internet and Intranet system. During this time of securing the system he became aware of pertinent information that was not erased from the system regarding the production and development of computerized manipulation procedures to use on a national level for the 2000 general election. He told me and showed me that the 1999 email verified that a test run was conducted for Florida only, and was a great success due to hiding any visible audit trail verifying the posting of votes from the felons list. He also told me that the purpose for the casting of votes by felons without leaving an audit trail was the easiest method because they knew that no one would be looking at the list with interest as a possible form of voter fraud. The perpetrators knew that it was going to disenfranchise thousands of voters throughout the state of Florida. When I asked him how that would be accomplished he said that would be done by computer source coding that would appear random to the average person yet it was to create under and over voting and create a bias toward a specific candidate. I was unable to attain these documents because, as xxxx explained, someone had been killed and he felt it could happen to him also… or to his family. xxxxxx told me that he informed Dr. Piotr Blass of these facts and that they had yet to find someone whom they could trust with this information. He also said that he would, over time, show me more if I could prove myself to be reliable, loyal and trustworthy to Dr. Blass.
Later on during our conversation xxxxx showed me another email memo dated after the 2002 Florida Democratic Primary (Mid to late September) stating that the felons' procedure was a success in the election of Bill McBride over Janet Reno and Darryl Jones. xxxxx also told me that he had recently read an email that he could not show me for security reasons and the threat of possibly being killed. According to xxxxx, this email would reveal new electronic procedures that were being perfected in other facilities out of state and would possibly be implemented in the General Election this fall. I asked xxxx what it was and how it could be done. He said that it was an intricate network that has been developed since the mid 1990's and it would take place in several states to divert attention from a centralized location.
In August, Dr. Blass informed me that he knew that xxxxx had knowledge of how the coding was being distributed throughout the United States due to xxxx being the MIS Director at Baypoint School. He told me that xxxx had revealed this information to him in bits and pieces in the early part of 2004 (Jan-March) via personal contacts at Baypoint. Dr. Blass also told me he was friends with Joe Klock even though he was made aware [by xxxx] that Mr. Klock was allegedly having sexual relations with some of the male students.
During the month of October Dr. Blass was asking via email and on radio for financial support to free his son from Growing Together (see Rense article). His efforts were fruitless until approximately ten days before the General Election. Dr. Blass even had me advertise on my own website that if they contributed to my campaign I would donate 10% to the David Lopez Blass Defense Fund. Dr. Blass had my communications manager, Al Rogers, living in his home for several days promoting a petition to free his son, which would be given to Governor Jeb Bush. On Monday October 25, 2004, Dr. Blass informed me that he no longer needed Al's services or mine, for that matter, because he had Joe Klock assisting him in the release of his son, and that he had received the needed funds. When I asked him from whom he received the funds he first stated to me that it was none of my business. Then, a few minutes later he told me his brother provided the funds, but to not tell anyone.
In late October, Dr. Blass informed me, while at Key College (Dania Beach, Florida), that he had spoken with xxxx again and that more information had been obtained as to how Bay Point School was getting additional funding for computer training and equipment in 2001 and 2003. Dr. Blass thought that it was interesting as that Ambassador Sembler was a key factor in funneling funds to Bay Point School via Joseph Klock as well as to Connie Mack and Michael Bilarakis. I asked him how he knew this and he told me that xxxx had told him in April or May of 2004.
Russell Baker (Nation Magazine) has interviewed Mr. xxxx on Nov. 12, 2004 and had Mr. xxxx verbally confirm that there is documentation regarding election fraud.
On Monday 11/8/04 Jeff Fisher and Al Rogers met with the FBI for approximately two hours giving them a detailed report regarding electronic election fraud originating in Florida. They were interviewed by two agents. The location was at 505 Flagler Dr. West Palm Beach, Florida. The name of the supervising agent was Jeff Favita. His phone number is 305-944-9101.

On Wednesday, 11/17/04 I faxed to the Miami FBI office between 4:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. an email from Dr. Blass that strengthened my statement regarding proving loyalty was neccesary to obtain information from the "sender". " "

4) Further evidence was brought to my direct attention as a result of this action.
On this day, Doctor Piotr Blass was also doing direct programming work for Joseph Klock which is acknowledged. It is acknowledged that Piotr Blass knew, and did not report until at least October of 2004, that the Drug Free America was abusing children up to and including his known son David Lopez Blass.
In that period of time, Doctor Piotr Blass also conversed with programmers overseas, programmers in other countries, and programmers who he happened to know personally were affiliated with these projects.
One of these programmers was from Poland, and he asked him here-fore to help put his son into another additional school which was not related after they had successfully litigated his release. Those schools, affiliated with Drug Free America, taught and continue to teach programming classes which are used for election fraud and which too are responsible for disenfranchising thousands of voters.
Those exchanges are presented below, with more in passing to continue in criminal complaint against this organization to which I worked for before discovery.
" http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=harrrisletter.htm
http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=blasspoland.htm
"Drogi Michale,
Bede po prostu pisal do Ciebie krotko i osobno.
Moj syn Dawid Blass to po prostu nowy Adam Michnik
tylko ze 40 lat pozniej.
Walczy on o godnosc ludzka i prawa dziecka.
Czy moga wladze Polskie zwrocic sie do braci Bushow
lub do ambasadora USA w Polsce
z prozba o opieke i wyzwolenie mojego syna ktory
juz tak wiele przecierpial.
Jak wiesz Jozek i ja cale zycie pomagamy tym ktorzy
walcza o lepszy swiat.
Tym razem rodzina Blassow prosi o pomoc dla najmlodszego
wnuka Bronka Blassa i Judyty Blass Dawidka ktory konczy 15 lat w poniedzialek.
Jest uwieziony bez podstaw od 120 dni w b zlym miejscu
gdzie probuja zlamac wole i przyszlosc dzieci Growing Together Inc.
w Lake Worth ,Florida, USA.

A propos Dawidek mowi plynnie po polsku i chce odwiedzic Kraj
i uczyc sie w Polsce jak odzyska wolnosc.
Byc moze wystapi o polskie obywatelstwo.
W Polsce moim zdaniem dzieci sa traktowane lepiej niz tu przez spolecznstwo ,kosciol
i przez wladze.
Ma lat 15 ale jest juz przyjety przez University of Michigan w Ann Arbor.
Chce byc lekarzem i prawnikiem a la Dr Janusz Korczak
Czy mozesz zasugerowac jakis program?
Petycja jest na
http://www.walkingwithfisher.com

Nasza nauczycielka pani Rudnicka --Rudnisia-- na pewno tez by Ciebie poprosila abys pomogl temu b fajnemu chlopakowi.
Byc moze tak jak Adam Michnik bedzie mial wielu nauczycieli.
Wlacznie z Toba Michale.
Ja mu z duma opowidalem o naszej szkole i Tobie rowniez.
Czesc
Piotrek Blass
http://www.pblass.com
US Senate Candidate from Florida Nov 2004
ps
serdecznie zapraszam na Floryde
Jozek tez b pomaga ale swoim cichym sposobem
Pozdrow prosze jasia litynskiego,janusza weissa i Adama Michnika
ktorego rodzina zna mojego syna (Alain) (bawili sie w chowanego a ja pomagalem
z matmy)
ps2
Jak mozemy stworzyc stypendium imienia Rudnisi?
Chyba w naszej szkole albo...?
ps3
21 WDH
wszedzie nas pedzi wszedzie gna... "

http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=blasspoland.htm

Translated from Polish to English, the last paragraph reads quite clearly instructions to transfer the students into an additional school to be decided.

" I invite help on cordially thesis ex- > Floryde Jozek but quiet manner Pozdrow prosze jasia litynskiego, janusz weissa and to sheltered adam family know my son ( ) ( entertain (play) Michnika ktorego Alain sie but I with (from) ) pomagalem matmy ps2 how scholarship name mozemy stworzyc Rudnisi? Probably, in our school either (or). 21 We ps3 WDH wszedzie pedzi wszedzie gna.""

To: "David Priede" , "76lee" , "sebastian alegrett" , "Christina And" , "Basia Arska" , "Bill Baumner" , "William M. Beecham" , "Anatol Blass" , "Malgosia Blass" , "Piotr Blass" , "Marek Borowski" , "Helena Roza Brus" , "Hermann Burckhardt" , "Dan Clarke" , "Dr Cole" , "Deric Davenport" , "Bill demler" , "Melony L Dennis" , "Dottie" , "Jacek Drozdzynski" , "Charles Figley" , "Jeff Fisher" , "Garcia" , "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" , "Larry Hussey" , "Hughes James-EJH005" , "Charlotte Kasl" , "Kelly" , "Michal Kleiber" , "Joseph Kolibal" , "John Lee" , "Sean S. Lennon" , "David Levy" , "blewter Lewter" , "Marcelius" , "Wiktor Markowicz" , "John McGovern" , "Wiktor Melman" , "Alain Michnick" , "Adam Michnik" , mjrx@aol.com, "Annelies Mouring" , "John Post" , "rudakov" , "Richard Sauber" , "scott porter" , "Susan Selwyn" , "Jay Shatto" , "Barry Silver" , "Barry Silver" , "Abbey Strauss" , Tremski@t-online.de, "oscar ziemba" , "Don (Boca Raton) Zimmermann"
HTML Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
Dear David Priede,

David Blass is in great distress.
Please watch your e mail as the situation develops.
Your wisdom and kindness are always appreciated.
What are you up to these days.
I work three jobs: two colleges and industry.
Any news on sql server 2005 yet?
Piotrek
Dr Piotr Blass

David Priede wrote:
Hello Dr. Blass,"

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSMICHNIK.htm
"Hi Robyn Lorenz,
There are several ways to approach higher dimensional art.
Let us work on this together:
We need to look at Escher,Dali,
mathematician Banchhoff from Brown U
also at so called computer vision....etc
This list is not meant to confuse you but as
a confession that I do not know what the best
approach will be.
Also multimedia ideas --singing sculpture--
are relevent here as well as moving sculpture....
Let us get together and talk a bit."

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%286%29.html
"Are they allowing and risking for David and others there to be another statistic?

Two kids recently died out of Baypoint Schools another DCF licensed
facility in South Florida.
Omar----is all over the press
and David Okara a Nigerian kid------soon will be all over the press.

How many more victims will it take for kids not to be returned
to known abusers????????????

Let us all make sure that David Blass is not another one.

Being without an abuse hot line at the gt sites of gang rapes and brainwashing
is very dangerous to say the least.
Please call your elective representatives and the media and election candidates
to investigate and to stop this outrage now!.
Enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!! "

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%284%29.html

http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=davidblass.htm "

http://successoneut.tripod.com/ricojeffjayfisher.vs.joseph.doc

View the entire updated court-case here. Note that there are over one-thousand files which need to be transferred, and will be available for full analysis in court.

Signed
Jeff Jay Fisher

This letter was kicked back with these messages. But the third person I spoke with at Microsoft Security in Redmond Washington has agreed that we post this letter on Indymedia.org at the Arizona site for they know that the information can be attained for their security people. Microsoft is being affected by this theft and the stock holders do not need to lose money because the NEOCON/Zionists just want to gain more power and control of oil in the Middle East and control our elected officials in Washington DC and throughout our once great Republic.

I like to use Microsoft products and I want it to always be known as the American Company that protected our nation and of course protects life for all mankind as Jesus Christ did for us at Calvary.

The young lady at Microsoft Security in Redmond Washington was very kind and had excellent customer service skills, however Wayne and David need to get some training in that field. I won't come out and break any of your bones David or Wayne but if nothing is done I will have you arrested for treason. This is a link so you can understand why I can say that and mean it. http://www.maryschneider.us/treason.php
I have already prepared charges against Congresswoman Maxine Waters if she doesn't cooperate with the law too.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2006/07/346551.html

I also have to post the original one also so you can see the changes

Jeff Fisher hide details 6:33 am (1½ hours ago)

to

managers@msn.com,
info@europol.europa.eu,
International Courts ,
US Marshals ,
Russian News Agency ,
World Metro News World's Largest Newspaper
bcc
ommited due to posting on internet
write to Roger Rancourt later for that address
cloak.dagger@gmail.com,
ommited due to posting on internet
write to Roger Rancourt later for that address
Al James ,
Jack Lancaster ,
Attorney Doug Wallace ,
Iran Daily News ,
J.R.I. [Judicial Reform Investigations] ,
J. Richard Niemela ,
Al-Jazeerah.info Dr. El-Najjar ,
Foppe Dykstra ,
Freedom Law School ,
tom flocco ,
soulfulchemistry@yahoo.fr,
Ted Pike ,
The Exposé ,
Dr. James Zogby ,
Sallie ,
dot@thepeacealliance.org,
John Caylor ,
waynemadsendc@hotmail.com,
votefraud. org ,
leoguy7@hotmail.com
date Nov 22, 2006 6:33 AM
subject Identity theft, Fraud, and worldwide Racketeering.
mailed-by gmail.com
To the Managers of MSN Business and Finance,

What we are talking about here is a massive crime relating to identity theft.

I have in possession as well as on CD, federal evidence of election fraud, fraudulent payments, and stealing of social security numbers that need to be witnessed in court.

While in the process of having these documents, I have myself now been repeatedly the victim of identity theft and related crime.

International forces, working closely with the Israelis but also the British, are intercepting our physical phone calls and illegally stealing our identities for the purpose of massive theft. They are impersonating people now around the clock, most of the time from different geographical areas and overseas.

It is in fact being done in a similar manner to how they did the election tampering to start with, and as the following facts for your review demonstrate.

http://www.mediamax.com/fullsteam/Hosted/msg_%2B14042914771_19_Oct_2006_18_35_24.wma

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room47/1355954/msg_%2B14042914771_19_Oct_2006_18_35_24.mp3

http://breachalerts.trustedid.com/?m=200610

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/epaper/2006/10/11/a1d_breach_1011.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSMICHNIK.htm

http://worldvtruth.tripod.com/browardfelonslist.htm

I would like to be personally interviewed in regards to identity theft and phone calls being intercepted, and the number you can reach me at is 770-715-2171

I am counting on those calls not also being blocked by these same forces, as what we have here is a serious security concern. I will be willing to also do a live interview or interview over a teleprompter, if for some reason phone calls to my cellular appear to be intercepted.

This is definitely something that must be dealt with, and the court case and other information is below for review.

http://worldvtruth.tripod.com/ricojeffjayfisher.vs.joseph.doc
"1)Whereas, I Jeffrey J. Fisher witnessed on my own account categorical abuse administered on the children of Baypoint Schools, by one Joseph Klock and his municipalities and where-as the court in question did nothing to abstain from this abuse in the year of 2004 to which I administer this criminal complaint.

I witnessed from firsthand account, beginning in July 2004 if not before, Sean S. Lennon discussing the abuse done to these children in more than two different schools run by the Drug Free American Foundation which it was renamed to in 1998. Whereas previously the organization in question was called Straights Inc., and was categorically involved in abuse of teenagers and parents for one decade and passing.

On account of this, Sean S. Lennon showed me wherefore, these students being taught programming classes by one Doctor Cole, and his assistants, including Doctor Piotr Blass. Whereas this programming was being used to initiate election fraud projects in the year 1998, 1999 in respect to the identifiable pattern of theft called Choicepoint software which was conclusively removing voters from the rolls and disenfranchising those voters on this account.

Whereas, Joseph Klock and Doctor Cole allowed Sandra Mortham and state municipalities to employ Choicepoint software into their drug program, and remove voters from the rolls as well as machine rolls. Whereas, Sean S. Lennon showed to me in October of 2004 that this program was also being administered into the voting machines as manufactured by Sequoia Inc., Diebold Inc. in which I would show you for the record these tallies do not match and are fraudulent. Hither fore, I present this information into the court record that the analysis of these voting machines shows the votes being removed and blacklisted under the PRE-LAT examinations. In which, such examinations show the error "Card Stuck Insertion" and deny, blacklist, remove votes from these voting machines thus nullifying the person's right to vote.

In action, I request for the court to open this motion for review. Wherefore, I have witnessed first hand the man known as Joseph Klock, openly lie and deny the fact he abused and brainwashed these kids in Baypoint Schools. By the records I have in possession, I respectfully request under RICO Law 18 U.S.C of 1964 that Joseph Klock be subpoenaed to accept/deny the charges I am placing against him.

Wherefore, I request the court consideration of the following facts to which I will add into the record to clarify. That in July of 2004, Sean S. Lennon first approached me regarding the abuse taking place at Key College and Baypoint Schools.

Wherefore the evidence in this record shows, and continues to outline I request a motion to place all evidence into the court for review and a summons must be sent to Sean S. Lennon to agree to testify in court. Whereas, Sean S. Lennon discussed the fact that at least one student had filed charges, or left the program and still another may have died. Whereas, Sean S. Lennon further informed me with evidence that other training classes were happening in California, Ohio, and to specific overseas. Whereas, his information directly taken from computers in Joseph Klock's office show a pattern of clear, and consistent, racketeering criminal activity that needs to be open to review.

Under RICO Law 18 U.S.C of 1964, I request an open motion to proceed to the discovery phase of action in relationship to this trial. What I will submit is my testimony for the record, so further review of evidence and material may be presented according to the events as transpired.

I was made aware and with the following evidence in July of 2004, that Sean S. Lennon was engaged in tampering with physical elections in multiple locations and municipalities.

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ELECTIONPROJECT.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/SandraMortham.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/lemmeconnectionblass.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/YOMKIPPUR.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty2.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty3.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty4.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty5.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty6.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty7.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty8.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty9.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baycounty10.jpg

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSFIFTHPROGRAM.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/EVIDENCE.htm

http://thestraights.com/articles/bradbury-suit.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/MORTHAMES&S.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSMICHNIK.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%284%29.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%286%29.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSSEANAGREES.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/index_ns.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/straight_and_the_judges_and_cops.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/drugpolicy.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/florida-dcf-05-31-02.txt

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/sembler-italian-kelebekler.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/sembler-senate-intro.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/archieve1.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/straight-advisory-board.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ABUSEBAYPOINT.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ABUSEBAYPOINT1.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/baypointschool.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/indexenglish.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/story1a092900.html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/Straight%20Incorporated%20-%20Capitalizing%20on%20Communism.htm

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file(7).html

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/training.htm "

2) This continued and sustained for several months, where-by Piotr Blass instructed me to keep quiet about it and help get his son released from the abusive mind-control cults being administered by Drug Free America.

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/ABUSEBAYPOINT.htm

http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=SEANLENNONEXPOSE.htm
"ADDITIONAL INFORMATION UPDATED FOR THE FBI
(KEY INFORMATION WITHHELD FROM WEBPAGE)
POSTED IN BLUE (last paragraph) )

UPDATED INFORMATION REGARDING NADER SPOKESMAN 11/17/04

Ralph Nader came to me and offered his selfless assistance in protecting every American's right to have a fair election. Mr. Nader is the patriot who has decided that partisan loyalty is unacceptable in situations such as rigged election.

I voted for and supported John Kerry, however he is surrounded by people who have kept him from receiving the message that he, as well as every voter in America, was cheated. I have been in contact with the Democratic National Committee's legal staff since November 12th. I have received thousands of emails asking why are they delaying to contact Senator Kerry regarding the information that would change the outcome of the November 2, 2004 election?

Americans are SCREAMING for John Kerry to report to duty!

To John Kerry: the nation and the Constitution are sinking fast! Save the ship (United States), its crew (American citizens) and its manifest (the U.S . Constitution) before its to late!!

To Ralph Nader,
Re: xxxxxx - (the Sender) see rense.com article
"Cover-Up of 2000 and 2004 Florida Vote Continues"
(Press release VoteFraud.org , and Blackboxvoting.org) 11-1-04
For more statistical info, visit http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com and click on the link labeled "Surprising Florida Presidential Election Results". The data reveals that the election results are inverted/cross-party voting.
On July 27, 2004 xxxxxx showed me an email dating from 1999 which stated that a successful run of posting felons' names to electronic voting went without any problem and leaving no audit trail. Mr. xxxxx also showed me information that it was done during the 2002 Florida Gubernatorial Democratic Primary as well. (Visit http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com and click on link labeled "Thank you Michael Moore from Jeff Fisher and Thom Hartmann"). He then told me that due to this success and the improvement of programming that it would probably be used in the General Election on November 2, 2004. This was relayed to me on July 27, 2004 in the mid afternoon in a parking lot leading from a McDonald's to the local county library in the Kendall area of Dade County. He also mentioned to me that he was living in fear. He believed his family might be killed if they found out that he gave this information to anyone. I tried to get this information to John Kerry on many occasions through Charles Figley. All attempts were fruitless.
Additional information:
Regarding conversation with xxxxxxx
xxxx also told me that day (July 27, 2004) that hardware and software for voting systems such as Sequoia, ES&S and Diebold could be compromised via computer coding (source) that was perfected at Bay Point School(s) and other locations throughout the United States over the past few years. This was learned by the interception of inter office emails that were located within the computer network and hard drives. Mr. xxxxxx informed me that he was hired to secure their Internet and Intranet system. During this time of securing the system he became aware of pertinent information that was not erased from the system regarding the production and development of computerized manipulation procedures to use on a national level for the 2000 general election. He told me and showed me that the 1999 email verified that a test run was conducted for Florida only, and was a great success due to hiding any visible audit trail verifying the posting of votes from the felons list. He also told me that the purpose for the casting of votes by felons without leaving an audit trail was the easiest method because they knew that no one would be looking at the list with interest as a possible form of voter fraud. The perpetrators knew that it was going to disenfranchise thousands of voters throughout the state of Florida. When I asked him how that would be accomplished he said that would be done by computer source coding that would appear random to the average person yet it was to create under and over voting and create a bias toward a specific candidate. I was unable to attain these documents because, as xxxx explained, someone had been killed and he felt it could happen to him also… or to his family. xxxxxx told me that he informed Dr. Piotr Blass of these facts and that they had yet to find someone whom they could trust with this information. He also said that he would, over time, show me more if I could prove myself to be reliable, loyal and trustworthy to Dr. Blass.
Later on during our conversation xxxxx showed me another email memo dated after the 2002 Florida Democratic Primary (Mid to late September) stating that the felons' procedure was a success in the election of Bill McBride over Janet Reno and Darryl Jones. xxxxx also told me that he had recently read an email that he could not show me for security reasons and the threat of possibly being killed. According to xxxxx, this email would reveal new electronic procedures that were being perfected in other facilities out of state and would possibly be implemented in the General Election this fall. I asked xxxx what it was and how it could be done. He said that it was an intricate network that has been developed since the mid 1990's and it would take place in several states to divert attention from a centralized location.
In August, Dr. Blass informed me that he knew that xxxxx had knowledge of how the coding was being distributed throughout the United States due to xxxx being the MIS Director at Baypoint School. He told me that xxxx had revealed this information to him in bits and pieces in the early part of 2004 (Jan-March) via personal contacts at Baypoint. Dr. Blass also told me he was friends with Joe Klock even though he was made aware [by xxxx] that Mr. Klock was allegedly having sexual relations with some of the male students.
During the month of October Dr. Blass was asking via email and on radio for financial support to free his son from Growing Together (see Rense article). His efforts were fruitless until approximately ten days before the General Election. Dr. Blass even had me advertise on my own website that if they contributed to my campaign I would donate 10% to the David Lopez Blass Defense Fund. Dr. Blass had my communications manager, Al Rogers, living in his home for several days promoting a petition to free his son, which would be given to Governor Jeb Bush. On Monday October 25, 2004, Dr. Blass informed me that he no longer needed Al's services or mine, for that matter, because he had Joe Klock assisting him in the release of his son, and that he had received the needed funds. When I asked him from whom he received the funds he first stated to me that it was none of my business. Then, a few minutes later he told me his brother provided the funds, but to not tell anyone.
In late October, Dr. Blass informed me, while at Key College (Dania Beach, Florida), that he had spoken with xxxx again and that more information had been obtained as to how Bay Point School was getting additional funding for computer training and equipment in 2001 and 2003. Dr. Blass thought that it was interesting as that Ambassador Sembler was a key factor in funneling funds to Bay Point School via Joseph Klock as well as to Connie Mack and Michael Bilarakis. I asked him how he knew this and he told me that xxxx had told him in April or May of 2004.
Russell Baker (Nation Magazine) has interviewed Mr. xxxx on Nov. 12, 2004 and had Mr. xxxx verbally confirm that there is documentation regarding election fraud.
On Monday 11/8/04 Jeff Fisher and Al Rogers met with the FBI for approximately two hours giving them a detailed report regarding electronic election fraud originating in Florida. They were interviewed by two agents. The location was at 505 Flagler Dr. West Palm Beach, Florida. The name of the supervising agent was Jeff Favita. His phone number is 305-944-9101.

On Wednesday, 11/17/04 I faxed to the Miami FBI office between 4:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. an email from Dr. Blass that strengthened my statement regarding proving loyalty was neccesary to obtain information from the "sender". " "

4) Further evidence was brought to my direct attention as a result of this action.
On this day, Doctor Piotr Blass was also doing direct programming work for Joseph Klock which is acknowledged. It is acknowledged that Piotr Blass knew, and did not report until at least October of 2004, that the Drug Free America was abusing children up to and including his known son David Lopez Blass.
In that period of time, Doctor Piotr Blass also conversed with programmers overseas, programmers in other countries, and programmers who he happened to know personally were affiliated with these projects.
One of these programmers was from Poland, and he asked him here-fore to help put his son into another additional school which was not related after they had successfully litigated his release. Those schools, affiliated with Drug Free America, taught and continue to teach programming classes which are used for election fraud and which too are responsible for disenfranchising thousands of voters.
Those exchanges are presented below, with more in passing to continue in criminal complaint against this organization to which I worked for before discovery.
" http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=harrrisletter.htm
http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=blasspoland.htm
"Drogi Michale,
Bede po prostu pisal do Ciebie krotko i osobno.
Moj syn Dawid Blass to po prostu nowy Adam Michnik
tylko ze 40 lat pozniej.
Walczy on o godnosc ludzka i prawa dziecka.
Czy moga wladze Polskie zwrocic sie do braci Bushow
lub do ambasadora USA w Polsce
z prozba o opieke i wyzwolenie mojego syna ktory
juz tak wiele przecierpial.
Jak wiesz Jozek i ja cale zycie pomagamy tym ktorzy
walcza o lepszy swiat.
Tym razem rodzina Blassow prosi o pomoc dla najmlodszego
wnuka Bronka Blassa i Judyty Blass Dawidka ktory konczy 15 lat w poniedzialek.
Jest uwieziony bez podstaw od 120 dni w b zlym miejscu
gdzie probuja zlamac wole i przyszlosc dzieci Growing Together Inc.
w Lake Worth ,Florida, USA.

A propos Dawidek mowi plynnie po polsku i chce odwiedzic Kraj
i uczyc sie w Polsce jak odzyska wolnosc.
Byc moze wystapi o polskie obywatelstwo.
W Polsce moim zdaniem dzieci sa traktowane lepiej niz tu przez spolecznstwo ,kosciol
i przez wladze.
Ma lat 15 ale jest juz przyjety przez University of Michigan w Ann Arbor.
Chce byc lekarzem i prawnikiem a la Dr Janusz Korczak
Czy mozesz zasugerowac jakis program?
Petycja jest na
http://www.walkingwithfisher.com

Nasza nauczycielka pani Rudnicka --Rudnisia-- na pewno tez by Ciebie poprosila abys pomogl temu b fajnemu chlopakowi.
Byc moze tak jak Adam Michnik bedzie mial wielu nauczycieli.
Wlacznie z Toba Michale.
Ja mu z duma opowidalem o naszej szkole i Tobie rowniez.
Czesc
Piotrek Blass
http://www.pblass.com
US Senate Candidate from Florida Nov 2004
ps
serdecznie zapraszam na Floryde
Jozek tez b pomaga ale swoim cichym sposobem
Pozdrow prosze jasia litynskiego,janusza weissa i Adama Michnika
ktorego rodzina zna mojego syna (Alain) (bawili sie w chowanego a ja pomagalem
z matmy)
ps2
Jak mozemy stworzyc stypendium imienia Rudnisi?
Chyba w naszej szkole albo...?
ps3
21 WDH
wszedzie nas pedzi wszedzie gna... "

http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=blasspoland.htm

Translated from Polish to English, the last paragraph reads quite clearly instructions to transfer the students into an additional school to be decided.

" I invite help on cordially thesis ex- > Floryde Jozek but quiet manner Pozdrow prosze jasia litynskiego, janusz weissa and to sheltered adam family know my son ( ) ( entertain (play) Michnika ktorego Alain sie but I with (from) ) pomagalem matmy ps2 how scholarship name mozemy stworzyc Rudnisi? Probably, in our school either (or). 21 We ps3 WDH wszedzie pedzi wszedzie gna.""

To: "David Priede" , "76lee" , "sebastian alegrett" , "Christina And" , "Basia Arska" , "Bill Baumner" , "William M. Beecham" , "Anatol Blass" , "Malgosia Blass" , "Piotr Blass" , "Marek Borowski" , "Helena Roza Brus" , "Hermann Burckhardt" , "Dan Clarke" , "Dr Cole" , "Deric Davenport" , "Bill demler" , "Melony L Dennis" , "Dottie" , "Jacek Drozdzynski" , "Charles Figley" , "Jeff Fisher" , "Garcia" , "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" , "Larry Hussey" , "Hughes James-EJH005" , "Charlotte Kasl" , "Kelly" , "Michal Kleiber" , "Joseph Kolibal" , "John Lee" , "Sean S. Lennon" , "David Levy" , "blewter Lewter" , "Marcelius" , "Wiktor Markowicz" , "John McGovern" , "Wiktor Melman" , "Alain Michnick" , "Adam Michnik" , mjrx@aol.com, "Annelies Mouring" , "John Post" , "rudakov" , "Richard Sauber" , "scott porter" , "Susan Selwyn" , "Jay Shatto" , "Barry Silver" , "Barry Silver" , "Abbey Strauss" , Tremski@t-online.de, "oscar ziemba" , "Don (Boca Raton) Zimmermann"
HTML Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
Dear David Priede,

David Blass is in great distress.
Please watch your e mail as the situation develops.
Your wisdom and kindness are always appreciated.
What are you up to these days.
I work three jobs: two colleges and industry.
Any news on sql server 2005 yet?
Piotrek
Dr Piotr Blass

David Priede wrote:
Hello Dr. Blass,"

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/BLASSMICHNIK.htm
"Hi Robyn Lorenz,
There are several ways to approach higher dimensional art.
Let us work on this together:
We need to look at Escher,Dali,
mathematician Banchhoff from Brown U
also at so called computer vision....etc
This list is not meant to confuse you but as
a confession that I do not know what the best
approach will be.
Also multimedia ideas --singing sculpture--
are relevent here as well as moving sculpture....
Let us get together and talk a bit."

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%286%29.html
"Are they allowing and risking for David and others there to be another statistic?

Two kids recently died out of Baypoint Schools another DCF licensed
facility in South Florida.
Omar----is all over the press
and David Okara a Nigerian kid------soon will be all over the press.

How many more victims will it take for kids not to be returned
to known abusers????????????

Let us all make sure that David Blass is not another one.

Being without an abuse hot line at the gt sites of gang rapes and brainwashing
is very dangerous to say the least.
Please call your elective representatives and the media and election candidates
to investigate and to stop this outrage now!.
Enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!! "

http://20-248-c.onlinestoragesolution.com/neversurrender/file%284%29.html

http://www.flipdrive.com/fileops.php?download=davidblass.htm "

http://successoneut.tripod.com/ricojeffjayfisher.vs.joseph.doc

View the entire updated court-case here. Note that there are over one-thousand files which need to be transferred, and will be available for full analysis in court.

Signed
Jeff Jay Fisher

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